Nae'blis is a title, not his actual name. Basically, the Dark One told the Forsaken that he would eventually give one of them this title and that person would be in charge of the rest of them. The reason Graendal is so skeptical about Moridin being given the title is she has no idea who he is. The reason he's so important will be revealed later
Remember the scene when Jahar Nariashma walked into Rand tent with package and was upset that Rand did not tell him about all the traps. Basically Rand sent him to get Callendor and told him about the traps but not all of them. The question whether he forgot or was it Lewis Therin influence.
@@vipset87 there was scene during the break between battles between ashman and seanchan when Narishma walk into Rand's tent dripping wet from the rain carrying a bag. He was angry with Rand. He was bringing Callendor from the stone. He was angry because Rand "forgot" to tell him about all the bobytraps there.
@@sd2002 no i mean was it towards the end? im on ch24, theres only a few chapters left. just wonderin if i missed it before. if not, looking forward to it
This was the book where I had to start googling character names to remind myself who they were. There’s so many Aes Sedai, and noble women with similar names that I can’t remember them all
Yeah, I tried doing that and gave myself a massive spoiler. That was the first and last time I googled anything related to the Wheel of Time lol (until I'm done reading them all that is, I'm on book 10 now)
@@taiguaradias Where was your comment 12 books ago? 😭 Thank you so much, at least it will help me with the last 3 books and I’ll make my friend happy who just started reading the series
Winters Heart can be a difficult read for many reasons, however it does contain one of the single most monumentous developments in the series and it's one of my favourite sequences
Its been Years since I've read it. Truth be told I got tired of tugging braids and scrubbing pots. I loved winters heart ending. Unfortunately I read 1-9 back to back then had to wait for 10. Was super disappointed in 10
In defense of the Forsaken: They are ineffective villains. They are meant to be... or, at least, that's my interpretation. They're not used to this 1700s-ish level society. The world they left had an industrial base(though the War of Power damaged that severely). They could mass-produce angreal and even Sa'angreal to a lesser degree(according to Jordan). And, this doesn't even take into account the technology available in the Age of Legends(View Screans, Sho-wings, shocklances, etc...). In this current age... they have to scrape and scrounge and scour the world for the tools they were used to having en mass. They aren't farmers or stone masons or anything like that - the skillsets that would allow them to get by or even flourish in this new world. They were scientists and scholars and government officials. I mean...the sheer amount of Compulsion they rely upon... They're as out of their depth as Rand is when he stars ruling Tear.
The age of legends is a post modern society, the age before is modern time(or like 1990s when the books were being written). They have huge cities and industries for everything and the only reason it came down is that they sensed the True Power(aka the Dark One's power) and tried to access it, but accessing it means drilling the dark one's prison so the bore was formed and he could influence the world again. This is described in the scene in Shadow Rising where Rand sees through the eyes of his ancestors and he sees the floating circular building coming down(where the experiments were happening and where it all went to shit), which started the war of power.
This absolutely does not make them bad villains. Like they can compulse anyone into giving them huge amounts of anything, like what Graendal does with all her servants. Also Be'lal, Sammael and Rahvin all settled down as COMPLETE rulers of cities(dictators basically) so really nothing is this is stopping them.
Hey Mike, Just want to say that I appreciate your honesty. Path of Daggers was the last book written when I first picked up this series so I understand your frustration. On the first read, you just want the main plot to go, go, go . . . and Jordan gives you the circus and Valan Luca. These plotlines are important . . . but they aren't the main plot and I completely get your frustration with the 'sidequests.' I totally get your frustration with Elayne. She starts the series as my favorite of the supergirls along with Nyneave. Then she gets progressively dumber and makes more and more foolish decisions. Sigh. As for Rand's power levels and how disorganized the Forsaken are. Could the main fight for the world have as much to do with Rand vs. his insanity as Rand and the forces of light vs. the Dark One, Forsaken, and all the darkfriends and shadowspawn? Rand has become more and more unstable and he just learned that Callandor has a major flaw. Also, think about the people who want to become darkfriends or even Forsaken. What characteristics do they share? There's a big hint there as to why the Dark One accepts them and why they struggle to work together. LOL . . . Min's DTF . . . .dayam. Not exactly the description I'd give. Ok, you didn't care for it, but it's the trope is you just saw/dealt with something truly horrific. You need some life-affirming action to counterbalance. This didn't bother me at all, but I can understand that it seems odd to you. Keep going, MIke. It gets better, and not just when Sanderson takes over!!
I guess it's just that Min and Rand seemed so genuine and, dare I say, romantic? But one book later she's all about that action while Rand is pouring his heart out. It didn't ruin the relationship for me, it just seemed odd. I'm all aboard the Hate Elayne Train. I look forward to seeing how this all plays out with the Forsaken.
I just finished the book 10 minutes ago and I am so pumped up about it!!! I'm sad you didn't like it!! I really loved the book! So many battles and action so it didn't feel sloggy at all. I agree that I didn't like Morgase's story at all, but the new twist with her being teamed up with Perrin has made me interested again. So many cliffhangers, it makes me excited to read the next book :)
Agreed I really enjoyed this book just finished it! Dashivas plot was awesome everything ashaman in this book is so interesting among so much else ofcourse
These videos are a ton of fun. Thanks for sharing your reaction/responses to this series. I read the series growing up and had to wait at least a year between reads. It probably changed my attitude toward the slog. Personally, I love the volume of world building he does. Yes, I’ve been bored and frustrated by chapters of details and pages describing the curtains. In the end, I love it. More by choice and sheer respect for the world and characters Robert put all his energy into. It stands as the most epic epic of all time. I think the high level of detail ultimately contributes to the series success. If, as a reader, I have to practice stamina to get to the goods, well then, how like life!
Also remember the Seanhan general who was crying and one who lead the retreat. It is nice when you see them again to remember they were the same one from this book
I appreciate your honesty and candor as I've been binging your readthroughs. Winters heart I liked better on a reread so I'm excited to see your point of view.
Thanks! I always say I’m not going to BS or pander on this channel and I’ll always be honest. Just watch my Lies of Locke Lamora video. I, too, suffer from unpopular opinions from time to time. But I love way more of WoT than I dislike.
Another thought, I like how he puts his characters through real trauma. Beyond being tainted by the dark one’s touch, Rand is suffering ongoing emotional, physical, mental and spiritual trauma. All his characters are suffering and it really builds nicely. The geopolitical stuff is slow, but it adds realism. As a reader, it all pays off. Stay the course. The second act is books 4-10. The third act needs the build up.
I am LOVING Rand's slow descent into madness. I mean, it really began (IIRC) in Dragon Reborn. I'm happy it didn't happen over the course of one book. That's a slow burn I'm all for.
@@samuelhaines617 totally agree, he becomes one of the scariest characters for me. I LOVE his arc, the final chapter of the second to last book and the first chapter in the final book are probably my favorites in the whole series. Fantastic stuff
This review is pretty spot on from my perspective. One thing that I love about your reviews are how you always mention these seemingly trivial things (caught two in this one) that seem to have no meaning - however, the ones you mention almost always do. When you wrap up this series I'll have to remember to come back to this specific video to point out two things that make a lot more sense at the end.
On my fourth read through the series and I'm always amazed at just how much foreshadowing and setup is sprinkled throughout the entire series from book one
Nae’blis was mentioned at least a few times a few books ago when some of the forsaken were being summoned for orders in the pit of doom, The Dark One “promised” the title to at least a few of them, so this wasn’t the first time this name was mentioned.
I think I agree with the decision of reading 9 and 10 together. Those two books kind of are a pair and I feel like they could have been merged into one book with some of the filler trimmed down. Like I think mentioned before, I feel like Jordan started fumbling with the pacing in book 8 and he doesn't really get control of it until book 11
That seems to be the common review I hear of this stretch. After hearing about book 10, I certainly couldn't take a break between 9 and 10 or I might end up with another 6 month break.
Your comment right at the 24 minute make is tight on point. Brandom Sanderson spoke about this in an interview with Daniel Green. He said before he started work on WoT, he re read the whole series and made notes on which plot lines were still hanging and made plans to tie them up.
I'm glad you understood what I meant. Some took it the wrong way, even after I clarified what I meant. But I understand folks are very protective of this series.
I prefer to let someone make up their own mind on if they like a book or not, not everything is for everyone, wh was more of a drag for me myself, but big stuff happens in the book def worth continuing. I always love to hear anthers take on something i read whether we feel the same about it or not its all good. keep em coming man :)
Your review as always is amazing. Even if I don’t always agree with you, always respect your opinion. You always bring a cohesive argument to your videos that a lot of people don’t.
books 8, 9 and (especially) 10 are definitely the worst of the series, but book 11 (written by rj) is amazing, one of the best. you can feel the change right on the first few pages of the prologue, feel that it's going to be something special. and the three books by sanderson are awesome as well, so don't be sad! i read a memory of light (14) in four days, and i cried my eyes out many times. probably the most amazing ending to a series i've ever read.
I'm definitely not sad since I was expecting some slow down. But I am a little bummed everyone seems to trash this stretch of the books but some don't like me being critical of it in a review? Seems odd.
@@mikesbookreviews people are odd hahaha. in my opinion, though i did say those were 'the worst of the series', they are most definitely NOT bad books. in fact, i breezed through most of them just fine. they're just slow due to how robert jordan structured the plot during this period. people are too critical for their own sake. i enjoyed all wot books because i loved those characters so so so much and honestly to me nothing else matters in this regard :D
8,9, and 10 were honestly really hard to get through for me. I tried to tell myself I only thought that because I was aware before hand that those books were often called “the slog.” Book 11 has started off like a rocket and it’s amazing.
Ive been loving your reviews. I always enjoy hearing first time readers opinions, but i definitely think where jordan shines is in the rereads, when you can pick up on all the small brilliant foreshadowing. If you reread this series, in the first book, jordan in one sentence gives practically the ending scene of the whole series.
Just finished this one minutes ago, and so far in this series the only really lame part to me has been the menagerie stuff back in...Fires of Heaven?...I think
One of the main reasons the Light survives is the Chosen are only concerned with their own power. If they ever learned to collaborate they would win hands down.
did you catch the Verin piece in the prologue where she's using compulsion on the aes sedai? or her inner monologue? that inner monologue will be important in a few books! I do the same thing with named characters: only learn them if they pop up a lot. Even in re-reads my brain is all "who??" sometimes. I don't think RJ knew what to do with Perrin. From what I understand, he didn't leave many notes on Perrin for Sanderson to work with, which was probably a good thing because Sanderson took Perrin and breathed new life into him! Sanderson gave him probably my favorite scene in the entire series! People also always blame Faile for Perrin's issues. She isn't the cause, like at ALL. Perrin is a grown man who makes his own choices. Your comparison of Forsaken with The Plan is totally spot on!! I never made that connection before but I love it! Rand sends Narishma to get Callandor. Which fulfills one specific prophesy. Remember when Narishma says Rand hadn't told him everything about the traps and he nearly died getting it, and then hands Rand a bundle? That was when he delivered the sword. I hope people aren't being jerks to you in the comments as you read through this series. I'm impressed at how few spoilers have happened for you, though!
I didn't really talk about it but each book I keep getting further convinced that either Cadsuane or Verin is a Darkfriend. Just not sure which one yet. I'm definitely hoping Sando can resurrect Perrin. The Cylons think the Forsaken are clowns. I totally missed the Callandor thing.
@@mikesbookreviews the prophecy line was "He who draws it out shall follow after" I believe. And that's part of why Rand trusts Narish (as much as he trusts anyone, these days). I 100% missed it the first time, too. On one hand, I want to hear ALL your Cadsuane and Verrin theories! On the other hand, I'm afraid people will spoil one of THE BEST White Tower scenes if you do. Ehhhhhhhh ok I can wait to hear what your theories were, after you read it. Man, now that I think about it, nearly half of my top ten favorite scenes in the whole series were written by Sanderson. RJ did an amazing job and I don't mea to take anything away from that. But Sanderson got the privilege to write the culmination of everyone's journey and he did a fantastic job ❤️
Personally I found it organic and it seems to be a part of the mechanics of that world, as ’the force’ in star wars, even if I never thought of it that way.
Edit: I originally posted this in the wrong video. I understand you're frustration with this book. I have to say that I enjoyed it more on rereads because of a the little things you pick up. Like Callandor. He was lugging it around for throughout most of the book
Jordan has a great style, unfortunately the storytelling of the entire series is much the same as for individual books. Each book has a world building central section with some mildly exciting mini climatic events that are all geared toward making the books climatic ending perfectly satisfying. Likewise the entire series is much the same, with each book's climatic ending being a mini climatic event for the whole. Unfortunately this book was the world building that is important to the whole series, but just lacked any real satisfying obstacles that could give us a real climatic resolution to any of them.
I've just completed my read of Crossroads of Twilight myself. The "slog" of 7-10 was only truly felt in book 10 for me. It was hard to get through. It had a few character moments (maybe 3) and only maybe the last 10 pages are needed. Good news is that 11 looks like it has potential to be good and move the story since books 9 and 10 both happen at the same time but from different POV. The Supergirls and the Shaido, I feel you. They are not hated but they're Boring. Keep up the good work. Really enjoying the reviews.
Oh, I hate Nynaeve, with a passion. Hard to read her chapters. Or those with her in them. But that true for almost all of them. I just like Siuan and Min.
Hey Mike, love your reviews. I’m on a first read, just finished PoD and actually I really enjoyed it. Some things really stood out for me. I’ve been waiting for more Verin and I feel like we finally got a peak into her potential brilliance in the prologue. Elayne’s weave nuke was an epic scene I totally didn’t anticipate. I loved Rand and the Asha’mans descent into madness and the poignant ending with Morr as well as the tension with Taim. That hit hard. But I agree that some things just felt..kinda lame. I’m not too bothered by the Shaido, the seafolk or kin, or all the nobles ( too many names ). Egwenes chapters were the hardest for me - so far Egwene is my least favourite character.
Reading this one felt like....150 pages-payoff, 150 more pages-payoff, until the end. The setup for the farm was brutal. The setup for rand was also a snooze. I liked the callandor scene a lot, but was bummed it didn't pan out how I wanted. I was hoping when he finally brought it out it would be this big climax where rand is having a size measuring contest with an enemy or two, and he just whips out callandor and nukes the place. But I guess this gives him more balance. Perrin chapters are also giving me sighs now, which is big sad. We get it Jordan, Fail is fiesty. Can't wait for the Shaido to be gone too. Lots to rant about.. On to winters heart I guess....
I've enjoyed watching these videos. Thank you for putting them up. I've also avoided commenting, mostly because I'm a little fuzzy on which things happened in which books and I don't want to spoil anything if I accidentally jump ahead. I felt the same way you did, especially with the slow development of the bowl of the winds. I also wanted to tear someone's hear out with the resolution of that thread.
Great review. Im glad you gave a honest opinion and not cater to the fandom like some reviewers would do. Im onto winters heart too, right after I finish the litrpg Im listening to.
I won't lie, I was worried about that. When I said I thought the bulk of Fires of Heaven was sloggy there wore some torches and pitchforks. But I'll never BS about how I feel towards a story. This book isn't all bad, but it's far from all good. But I DID really like the parts I liked.
Thank you. Any time Elaine is in the book, if Rand is not around, is absolutely awful! She's supposed to be likeable, but in this book you find out that she's super, super, sexist and absolutely dreadful to any and every man. You see this most with Mat Cauthon. I understand that in this setting most women should be sexist, but you don't want the heroes of the story to be sexist. Not, "it's hard to trust a man" sexist... It's "let's pelt stuff at his head because we can, and he's just a man, so it doesn't matter," kind of sexist. It was so hard to get through those first few chapters. I just wanted to reach into the book and punch her in her upturned nose.
I don't notice romance in books or what would be considered good or bad. When I hear people complain about people just meeting and falling in love I consider it Pattern/tarver'in related. The last battle is coming and Romance is also another coincidence that is increasing like all the ancient powers returning e.g. Min's Viewing and Wolf Brothers. The same with the Rand's three "lovers". Rand hasn't fallen in love with 3 women and vice versus. It's *the Dragon* must love these three women for Tarmon Gaiden to be successful. (Politics).
something to look forward to, In the "Shaido book" hang in there because Perrin starts to be redeemed again. Get through the next 2 books and then you will really enjoy the rest of the books. In addition, Jordan outlined the rest and wrote a bunch of the posthumous books.
I kept waiting for a positive comment....and there wasn't a single one. "I have more negative than positive" indicates at least one positive! LMAO Notes I took while listening at work: 1 - Elayne & Aviendha are never more than sisters. You're hearing a bunch of juvenile wishful thinking. 2 - Perrin is ta'veren & a representative of Rand, & Alliandre was desperate. It's not that big of a surprise that she swore to him. He accepted in Rand's name because he knew he needed to. 3 - The purpose of the Shaido at this point is Moridin using them to create chaos in the world. 4 - Nae'Blis isn't a name. It's the title for the highest of the Chosen. 5 - Rand sent Narishma for Callandor right before that battle. He chides Rand for setting traps that he didn't tell him about. 6 - I think Min was trying to comfort & distract Rand, not be callous.
Positive comments: 1) I love the way Jordan writes Lews Therin in Rand's head 2) I liked the whole battle sequence, including Rand taking his first loss 3) I think Faile is a shrewd politician for her husband 4) It takes awhile to get there, but I loved the nuking of the Seanchan from Elayne 5) Rand with Callandor was an amazing moment Just because I didn't specify what was positive and what was negative doesn't mean I didn't have positive thoughts.
@@sidhedanu I'll admit my frustrations probably seemed more prevalent, as it WAS a very frustrating read for me. About 300-350 pages were solid WoT for me. I just didn't like how long it took to get there most of the time and characters I want more of still being sidelined or MIA.
It's funny because it's never explicitly stated, just earlier Rand entrusts Narishma with a super important top secret mission and then he goes off and no one knows what he's up to until he returns with Callandor
Just finished TPOD this morning. I liked it more than you did, but I have to agree the first 200ish pages was a slog until it took off for me. No disrespect of anyone's opinion, the world would be boring if we all agreed and people's differing perspectives are always interesting to me. Overall I liked the book but could certainly have used some Mat, and the Aes Sedai are an absolute mess but I believe it was done that way on purpose leading up to something; I am a first time reader of WOT as well so I don't know yet. Looking forward to reading WH and thanks for taking the time to put all these reviews together.
I know this is completely off topic but I REALLY hope you read the manga Berserk (forgive me if I've said that to you before I recommend it to literally everyone and lose track, I even got my mom to read it lol she loved it). The first two or three volumes are definitely not the best intro for the story but it will make more sense later, but the rest through volume 13 in particular are fucking mind blowing. There's 41 volumes in total but it really isn't too bad of a reading endeavor because it's basically like a comic and the artwork is absolutely incredible especially after he refines his style after the third volume. Insane how one man wrote and drew every frame it's incredible. Super easy to have one of the biggest moments spoiled if you look up stuff online it's an incredibly dark and impactful part of the story that pretty much stays burned in the mind of everyone who's read it.
i would just like to point out that nae'blis was first mentioned at the beginning of Lord of Chaos when demondred is talking to the dark one. if I recall correctly. Love your thoughts though I agree with most of your opinions on the series and its great to see someone else going through the journey. Also Agree, not a fan of the shadow stuff.
I think I missed it in LoC because that was when I first reached the point of "name overload." That was when I had started ignoring a ton of new names unless they showed up multiple times. But I recognized that name as someone of importance because of the RUclips channel that has adopted it.
I think you're right on the money here. The last time I re-read the series - right before AMOL came out - I read synopses for books 7-10. I'd dive into the book for a good battle or scene, but I couldn't deal with Perrin and the Shaido ("Where's Faile!!!"), Mat and Luca, and pretty much everything the Aes Sedai were doing. Sanderson's books, while not perfect, saved the series IMO and really make for a fantastic ending.
@@mikesbookreviews I was sad to see him go, too. He created an incredible world that has been an important part of my life. I think a lot of the best parts of the final books were written, or at least outlined, by Jordan. Sanderson was then able to fill in the blanks, pick up the pace, and effectively tie up the many, many plot lines.
Everyone has their own opinions with this series and the characters. I really liked all the stuff about the Aiel and their culture. I personally enjoyed all of the books, though if I had to pick my least favorite part it would be the part that has to do with Perrin, Faile, and Morgase (which you are just getting to).
@@mikesbookreviews yeah, the wuse ones are super frustrating when they're not showing up aes sedai in Tel'aran'rhiod or being genuinely warm towards Egwene, but I love the maidens of the spear. Their relationship with Rand is super humanizing in my opinion.
I agree with everything you said in this review. It wasnt my least favorite, but Path of Daggers is low in my personal rankings. I 100% agree with the sentiment that 8-10 should have been a single book (or maybe 8-11 should have been 2 books combined not four?), and that they let Jordan get away with poor editing because of his reputation. Doesnt make him a bad writer, and honestly it doesnt necessarily make his editorial team bad either. Its just a thing that sometimes happens when writers start to get bigger. Ive seen it happen in different ways for other writers too. Still one of my favorite book series! And i think there was a lot done right overall, but this is my major criticism of the series.
It happens to a lot of authors that get a some stroke within a publishing company. That's the only way I'm able to explain how Stephen King's Tommyknockers happened.
I'm about to speak blasphemy (for Mike :P) but it's the same with Stephen King. Maybe it's a thing when you become a writer who brings in the big bucks but Stephen King is notorious for having books that are in desperate need of a good editing job. Needful things anyone? Where was Harriet ? Jordan's wife was his chief editor. Where was she on this?
@@williamjones3534 Yo, even I brought up Tommyknockers. There are King books that are long where I think it's justifiably so (IT, The Stand) and those that feel like his editor was asleep behind the wheel (Under the Dome, Insomnia, Desperation).
@@mikesbookreviews I stand corrected Mike😊 Forgive my ignorance. I have not viewed all of your videos. However we can all agree editing for both authors was sorely needed😉
Viewer request!!! Do you do that? Haha 🤣 when you finish A Memory of Light (last book) I want to see an immediate reaction video (like, go live right after you finish), and then another video 48 hours later. After it all marinated for a few days. Yeah? 🤩
I just know that for ME... I was like “wow.. wow.. um.. what just happened to me? Wow..” for about 8 hours after I read it. And then a few days later I had a lot to talk about haha 🤣 being able to look back on the story as a whole?? Phew... it took me back 🤯
17:50 Dashiva went to get it for him, and almost died because of it. That and Rand’s stupid decision to fight the Seanchan despite the strangeness of Saidin is what led Dashiva and the others to try and kill him
First time reader of the series. I had meant to listen to these reviews as I read them since you kind of coaxed me into reading the series. I agree the ladies can be a bit annoying, but I think their story arcs are very important, thus I liked #8! Also being 600 pages felt about the right length. The fact you missed some key hints means that series fatigue is a real problem. So good luck trying to crank through 9/10 as a bang bang!
I agree about the prologues in this series, overlong and sometimes almost unnecessary. Brandon Sanderson does more in the prologues in Stormlight Archive in less than 20 pages.
I've read all 14 books four times since I first picked up TEoTW in 2000. Books 9 and 10 are def my least fav books, followed by 8 and 11, BUT I feel that serves two purposes. 1. It makes even the worst parts of the best books seem more acceptable and 2. It adds a real world negative emotional affect to coincide with the downward spiral our five main fictional friends are all experiencing. Kinda like Stephen King's Hearts in Atlantis, half of that book was amazing the other half of that books soul purpose seemed to be to make the reader uncomfortable, bored, and oogied Out anytime the reader ever thought about war in the real world. Sneaky sneaky psychological conditioning imo. Enjoying your channel keep up the good work!
I’ve been going through this series and watching your videos after each book and man, you hit my feelings on the head! I’m done with the shaido and this was the first time I heard that winters heart is all about them… painful. I didn’t hate this book. It had some really amazing moments. But as you mentioned, the tedium of reading hundreds of pages of them just bickering is getting a bit overdone.
I’d like to point out that when Rand wonders about how to cure the Taint on Sidine we get a hint about one of the questions Rand asks when going into the doorway back in shadows rising. I kinda guessed this bc if Rand saying the answer was in a riddle and it makes me excited that he is thinking of a solution.
I just finished this book and while I think I liked it more than you, I agree with most of your points. This book could have been New Spring length and probably have been much more enjoyable of a read. Things just take way too long to happen. My main issue is how many characters Jordan needs to name. I feel like him naming every single person who walks in and out of a room extends these chapters from 5 pages of content to almost 20 pages. I noticed this first during Lords of Chaos with the Aiel people and now it has extended to most of the sub-cultures we see. While I still really liked this book and 2 or 3 of the events were huge (Bowl of the Wings, disassembling weaves, the battles with Seanchan, and the last like 40 pages) it was just way too long. Excited for book 9 but at this point I expect my eyes to glaze over for over half of the book.
So. Many. Names. And details about characters we'll never see again. I stand by my opinion that books 8-10 could have been cut down to one incredible book.
I started the series in january and finsihed IT a month ago. I didnt enjoy path of daggers, the next book i liked more. I aggree that there is to much shaido,sevanna🤬. Keep reading, it gets alot better👍👍👍
Watching these after the fact (and having read WoT since the first book was published in 1990), I honestly wish you hadn't been repeatedly warned about certain books (like, oh this book is a Shaido book). Reading them as they were published, I never considered these books a "slog". I just felt they were not written with a beginning, a middle and an end. Some of the most awesome events in the series happened in these books. The climax may just happen in the middle of the book while the end peters out. The writing itself felt the same to me, just a difference in organization. But back to your review, it seems much of it comes down to comments about what people have warned you about, and that's unfortunate. I think the best way to avoid that in the future is to record your responses as you read each book in a series, but not upload them and read comments until you finish the whole series.
Path of Daggers was my least favorite book, I think it gets better from here, a lot of people think book 10 is the worst, I disagree. POD leaves out several important characters and accomplishes very little, COT catches up on what all the characters have been up too during the last 2 books, if it wasn't for the great ending in WH I would put it below COT as well.
It's funny; almost everyone trashes books 8-10, but here I have more negative than positive thoughts on PoD and some seem to be surprised. I think maybe it's like that little brother thing where you can pick on them, but no one else can.
For me, I wouldn't say book 10 was the worst, but that I enjoyed it the least. Book 9 was released while I was reading the first 8 for the first time, so book 10 was the first book I actually had to wait for, and then after the world changing events wrapping up book 9, I was HYPED. Then I read ten and not that not much happened, but that the world's TIMELINE didn't progress. I had to wait AGAIN for book 11 to see the world after the book 9 change.
No problems with opinions Mike. I’ll stick around. This book has some amazing scenes; Elayne the hero with the unweaving of the gateway, Egwene (and Siuan) manipulating herself into power, and of course Fedwin Morr’s death by Rand’s hand. It was very dusty in the room when I read that last part... Peace.
I just found your channel and have watched your opinion from why you're going to start reading through this one so far. Always great to hear other readers feel. Still my favorite series
Pronunciation . . . Jordan was quick and even sharp to correct pronunciation of his fans. Sanderson has a much more laid back attitude, and I tend to agree a lot more with him. If you like a pronunciation, go with it. When you share your thoughts I'm glad to hear them and can set aside that you say a name differently than I do. After all, I had to put up with that when I listened to the audio books. Even between the two narrators, a husband and wife duo, the two had some differences. As long as I know who you are talking about, we've communicated successfully and we're good. Now, there is a name that I don't believe I've heard you say. She is one of the forsaken. I could not figure out how I wanted to pronounce her name. It was at best awkward and confusing. Then I watched a video where someone asked Jordan how to pronounce a name. He gave the pronunciation followed by a string of names. Some of these were the same as I expected and some not. From that video the name of this forsaken went from being awkward to being one of my favorite names in the series. Semirhage. Most often when I hear it, it ends with a hard 'g', like dog. I won't hate you if you say it this way. Jordan's pronunciation is three syllables ending with a soft 'g' like mirage. I've tried unsuccessfully to find that video after the series ended.
I prefer to read the book, especially the first time. However. I also find that I like to listen to the books while I driver alone, for example awhile commuting to and from work. In all honesty, the two who read these are the best. If you find any work narrated by Michael Kramer and Kate Reading, you'll like the performance, despite pronunciation problems.
We all get to be different. We can all enjoy these stories in our favorite way. When I listen on the car, I know that driving is primary and often find that I've focused on driving and missed things in the book. That is one reason I prefer to read the print first, so I don't have to scan back to follow and enjoy a story.
Just finished The Path of Daggers and I watch your vids along after I finish each book and I agree. This book was a drag and I gave up reading it and just looked up a summary video and online summaries as well just so I can make sure I am up to speed on things. I was not into this one and I'm scared to get into Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight (especially book 10). I want to barrel through this chunk so I can get to Knife of Dreams which is what I am craving to get to. I do love this series like you do but yeah TPoD was a rough and very dry read.
I think the old sword Rand uses was given to him from Perrin before the Dumai's weels battle. I have just read Lord of Chaos and Faile gives a sword to Perrin asking him to deliver it to Rand.
Just finished reading book 8. So far books 7 and 8 have been my favorite. The slog has yet to begin. Book 6 was more of a slog than anything. I begin book 9 very soon!
Is anybody going to mention the chapter where 2 Aes Sedai were found brutally murdered? One of them had a wooden stake hammered into her chest! For me, I was already on edge during the chapters of Elayne and company because of that golam. This part of the book had me cringing as if I was watching a horror film. Yeah, Rand didn’t fight a forsaken in this book - but I'm cool with that. IMO he had to fight something worse - a monster of his own creation. On the laundry list of terrifying things to happen - having your own powerful army (that you created!) turn against you is one of them. And what about that woman, who used to be a man, just picking ppl off in the rebel Aes Sedai camp? There's a lot of tension in this book. The chapters of the battle between Rand and the Seanchan were well done. I think this is the first battle where most of it is hidden from view, which makes it more nerve-wracking. ~“Triple scouts out. I mean to push hard, but I don’t want to trip over a damane.” No one laughed.~ The bowl of the winds scene and the scenes that followed were amazing. Loved those. Esp how, in all that panic and urgency, there's: ~"She had behaved as a queen was supposed to behave, and it had worked exactly as it was supposed to! She had taken charge, to lead people out of danger, and they followed! Her whole life had been training for this. It was satisfaction that made her laugh, and the hot glow of pride seemed about to burst through her skin like the radiance of saidar. Rounding the last curve, she pounded down the final straight beside one of the tall white-plastered barns. And her toe caught an almost buried stone. She pitched forward heavily, windmilling her arms, and suddenly she was somersaulting head-over-heels through the air. No time even to yell. With a thump that jarred her teeth and took all the wind out of her, she landed hard at the foot of the path, sitting right in front of Birgitte."~
Great review. Personally, I think Crossroads of Twilight is the biggest slog in the series. Path of Daggers is only the beginning. While loving this series, I have always said that this series is about 10,000 pages of women talking to each other. It gets quite tedious. IMO, Jordan hangs onto his villians for too long or brings the same damn villians back. I got sick of the Shaido and Padan Fain LONG before the end. The Forsaken are the classic case of evil being too powerful to defeat IF they actually worked together, but because they are evil, they never will. There is never a bad time to get down with Min. I love where her head is at. Thank God for her through this slog. She makes it a little bit more tolerable.
I'm re-reading the series now and I think I was a bit unkind in my characterisation of books 7-11 as "an unbearable slog." I'm enjoying it a lot more now. There are a lot of really important events in these books that I completely forgot about. That being said, Path of Daggers is one of my least favourites. It totally feels like a whole book of filler, like you said. I think its content should have been split between A Crown of Swords and Winter's Heart.
I think you summed up Path of Daggers pretty well. There are some really slow parts that make it a tough read at times. It was at this point that I too started to groan everytime a Perrin chapter popped up. Winters Heart has some of the same issues but but is contrasted by some truly great scenes while Crossroads of Twilight is by far the most difficult to read of the entire "slog".
I don’t know if you’ve seen this but the title of naeblis is introduced in lord of chaos in the prologue with demandred it’s very brief. The dark one just asks would you be naeblis and demandred thinks through what that is which is the dark lords right hand
I finished this a couple of months ago. It was the first in the series that did not click for me. I felt like it had no climax and that it was all set up. So many stories and nothing really happens and I felt that the book ended right as it was getting started. No Mat was a big disappointment as well. Currently reading Knife of Dreams and I don't feel like Winters Heart was worse. I feel like Path of Daggers is for sure the low point of the series.
My thoughts were that egwene and her story needed to happen to further her character and give her a backbone. Rand needed to take a fat loss and theoretically he did. He is gonna have to realize that people are gonna die bc of him men,women, and even children. Shoot him killing the young apprentice ashaman at the end of the book gave me goosebumps. I really felt like the pacing of the book was kinda all over the place at times. I agree the super girls chapters though they had their purpose with the bowl, should’ve been wrapped up sooner. My only justification is that the seanchan showed up and they were trying to flee. Every book leading up to this one was a great book this one was a “good” book. Love your content I always come here after I finish a WOT book, can’t wait to see your thoughts on WH. I’m starting that one tomorrow!
Pacing in TPoD is the issue everything in the book happens in about 2 weeks (give it or take) time frame and a lot should had been trimmed from the book. Reading TPod after ACOS was like hitting to a wall and I for one was quite disappointed especially after 2 years of waiting. One more thing about the queen was that she knew Perring was a major domo for the dragon reborn and had an army with him and political situation was that queen had lost her poltical and real power to the prohet and his "army of peasants" so licking boot for the dragon reborns major domo sounds like deal if it might get your crown back eh ?
yeah.. you deserve a sub. this review is so on point edit: i agree on everything except faile and morgase. i cant stand her. id rather have more morgase and less faile. ive got a few chs left. ill have to turn this off towards the end edit2: also happy that youre behind rand and min. ive been pro min since eye of the world. and this is where ill have to pause and come back
I kind of liked Path of Daggers. It's certainly not the Shadow Rising tier, but it's better than the Dragon Reborn or the Fires of Heaven IMO. The borderlands meeting didn't really make sense but whatever foreshadowing, I can overlook not seeing them again. The bowl of the Winds usage was good world building, expanding our knowledge of circles while finally ending the "it's hot" story. Egwene's scheme was clever, maybe it's a bit trope-y but her growth in the series is one of the best for any character, and this adds another layer. Egwene settling the Hall behind her is a lot more than just making a decision (and indecisiveness has been a well foreshadowed flaw of Aes Sedai). Perrin's falcon and hawk story line is starting to become worn, but him dealing with the dragonsworn makes a bit of sense and it's reasonable that he would be an emissary for Rand, seeing as his Ta'varen talent is leadership. The shaido should have died at Dumai's well, but whatever. The Seanchan and Rand is perhaps the best conflict seen so far? Maybe the battle of two rivers is better, but the Seanchan are very competent and learning about their military structure is great. More importantly, Rand finally started eating the cost of madness and the taint on the power. This has been foreshadowed since the beginning and it's finally being expressed. Instead of another generic anime battle between Rand and the Forsaken, we see Rand lose in many ways, all reasonable. I'm excited to see how he can come back from being shown a mad man infront of the nobles. The Tar Valon sedai finally using the oath rod to root out the black ahaj is relieving. This has been a plot hole for me forever, so I'm glad it's finally being addressed
The prologues are certainly tough in a few of the books lol. tPoD for me wasn't too bad, bit slow but overall a solid entry to the series. I personally loved Winter's heart i didn't feel there was much of a drag but i think this is an unpopular opinion lol. Book 10 is the only book i really felt the slog, that shit DRAGGED but book 11 made up for that tenfold! Imo the only thing that made the slog bad was Perrin, Elayne and the Shaido. Keep pushing through and enjoy!
Enjoy your reviews and having read this series in it's entirety numerous times, I agree for the most part. Question? Have you read Steven Erikson's; Malazan Book of the Fallen series? If not, I highly recommend it and in my opinion it is the pinnacle of Fantasy.
To me this book was not nearly as bad as the Internet community made me expect it to be. I think the slow parts are not exclusive to this book and have been around throughout the whole series, and I'm comfortable going along with the slower pace because I enjoy spending time on this world. Also this book was way shorter than the books before, so it was a swift struggle-less read through.I think another big factor that helped me with the enjoyment was starting to use "Wheel of Time Compendium" to keep up with all the Aes Sedai and Asha Man, cause to be fair the amount of recurring secondary characters is getting ridiculous. I do have a number of criticisms of the story overall, but to me so far the slog has been nowhere as bad as I expected.
My only disagreement is the Shaido ending in FoH with Couladin, only because I think they should have been recruited by the tower emissary and actually finalised at Dumai's Wells. Then the leftovers either convert to team dragon or join the shadow.
I've sat WoT books down for several reasons and for a various lengths of time. This was the longest break (2-3 weeks) I took where I sat the book down because it honest to god lost me. I did not feel like coming back to it for some reason. I ended up reading it, and I've only got a couple of things (call them grievances) I'd like to air as a first time reader. I get that Perrin needed marriage advice. Why did it have to be Elyas? Why not Tam, a very well traveled Two Rivers man? Why are they bringing MORE Aes Sedai into the story? Definitely the first time I've had to google a few names, and I'm pissed because I accidentally spoiled some of the story for myself doing so. Oh, and one more thing. I hate the Athan Miere!!!
This was a pretty negative review, but it's understandable. It has been awhile since my first read through, and I remember being frustrated by many parts of it, especially the Shaido, but they are integral in Perrin's story. Knowing what I know, after reading it several times, of course, when you are giving your review, I am going "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T LIKE THAT PART!" and then I go, well, he doesn't know this and this. It is actually kind of cool to see your angst and disappointments. I hope you enjoy the rest of the series, especially how it ends, and look forward to your reviews.
Ya this book inexplicably took me longer to finish than the longest books in the series (The Shadow Rising, Lord of Chaos) and I couldn't figure out why...but this is why! Ha ha! Also, you seem like a charming guy :)
On a 1st read I disliked the majority of this book as well. Super girls do grind my gears no end. I do like Elayne & Aviendha's relationship, but their adoration for each other seems somewhat juvenile at times. Rands insanity is awesome. The shaido should have been wiped out @ dumais Wells. But, it's a good book, just not vintage WOT. Better to come, even from your boy Lan. Anyway, great review as always. Thanks for the content. Merry Christmas
Yeah. 8, 9, and 10 are just building up to the events in book 11, which is why they feel so rough. I think he should have smooshed 8 and 9 together and cut a lot of fat, since 9 has a real strong ending. Then he should have put 10 and 11 together. Because next to nothing happens in 10. 11 is the final Robert Jordan Book, and it's one of his best.
I’m in the middle of book 10 now on a re-read (first time since the series was finished). I pretty much agree with all your major points. Path of Daggers really suffers from not having any Mat chapters. He returns in the next book and is a highlight. I really wish RJ had killed Sevanna and written the Shaido out after Dumai’s Wells, but oh well. IMO book 9 is slightly better than 8, and book 10 is the sloggiest by far. Just stick it out and I’m certain you’ll like 11-14, which are all great and as good or better than any of the first 7.
Perrin has people follow him due to his teveran nature, it’s hinted at a lot, that’s also why things happen to him that are very similar to what’s happened to him previously, because they’re unresolved & Hamid taveran nature requires those lose ends to be resolved
Yeah, I just try not to use that as an explanation every time so I don't sound like "oh, it was the Force" as I do every time there's a plot hole in a Star Wars book.
Just going through this series now. I like your reviews. I really liked this book, but I don't mind Elayne most of the time. My biggest complaint is that it seemed RJ wanted there to be more in this book and I don't know if it was deadlines or what, but it seems there are some pieces that were cut out. I also disagree, I think a lot happened in this book which may have been why so much was cut out.
The reason for the random knee bending is because Perrin is Taverin. You missed that. Also yes you missed when Rand got Callendor( spelling). Narishma bitched at him for not giving ample or any warnings.
Hey guys! Sorry about the delay on this one. Really needed to let things marinate longer than usual. Thanks for watching (and commenting)!
Nae'blis is a title, not his actual name. Basically, the Dark One told the Forsaken that he would eventually give one of them this title and that person would be in charge of the rest of them. The reason Graendal is so skeptical about Moridin being given the title is she has no idea who he is. The reason he's so important will be revealed later
I see. Thanks!
Remember the scene when Jahar Nariashma walked into Rand tent with package and was upset that Rand did not tell him about all the traps. Basically Rand sent him to get Callendor and told him about the traps but not all of them. The question whether he forgot or was it Lewis Therin influence.
I do. Folks have told me where I missed it.
This series doesn't have a lot of humor in it, but I laughed out loud at this.
when did this happen in the book?
@@vipset87 there was scene during the break between battles between ashman and seanchan when Narishma walk into Rand's tent dripping wet from the rain carrying a bag. He was angry with Rand. He was bringing Callendor from the stone. He was angry because Rand "forgot" to tell him about all the bobytraps there.
@@sd2002 no i mean was it towards the end? im on ch24, theres only a few chapters left. just wonderin if i missed it before. if not, looking forward to it
_The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills._ And the Pattern feels that . . .
it needs more Shadio.
Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"I am the storm."
“You’re killing us, man! Stop!” I'll admit I chuckled at that line because I read it like Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
@@mikesbookreviews lmao
i now understand this comment. and i LOVE it! -michael scott voice
That's hilarious. I need to do this
This was the book where I had to start googling character names to remind myself who they were. There’s so many Aes Sedai, and noble women with similar names that I can’t remember them all
Yeah, I tried doing that and gave myself a massive spoiler. That was the first and last time I googled anything related to the Wheel of Time lol (until I'm done reading them all that is, I'm on book 10 now)
@@elenasreadingcorner I'm using an app for that ;) no spoilers.
@@taiguaradias Really? And the name?
@@elenasreadingcorner "wot compendium".
@@taiguaradias Where was your comment 12 books ago? 😭 Thank you so much, at least it will help me with the last 3 books and I’ll make my friend happy who just started reading the series
Winters Heart can be a difficult read for many reasons, however it does contain one of the single most monumentous developments in the series and it's one of my favourite sequences
I've heard it has one of the best endings.
It's a blessing and a curse, most of the time all the real juicy bits are at the end
@@block4562 I'll find out soon!
i thoroughly agree. not much happened throughout the book, but the ending... oof
Its been Years since I've read it. Truth be told I got tired of tugging braids and scrubbing pots. I loved winters heart ending. Unfortunately I read 1-9 back to back then had to wait for 10. Was super disappointed in 10
In defense of the Forsaken: They are ineffective villains. They are meant to be... or, at least, that's my interpretation. They're not used to this 1700s-ish level society. The world they left had an industrial base(though the War of Power damaged that severely). They could mass-produce angreal and even Sa'angreal to a lesser degree(according to Jordan). And, this doesn't even take into account the technology available in the Age of Legends(View Screans, Sho-wings, shocklances, etc...). In this current age... they have to scrape and scrounge and scour the world for the tools they were used to having en mass. They aren't farmers or stone masons or anything like that - the skillsets that would allow them to get by or even flourish in this new world. They were scientists and scholars and government officials. I mean...the sheer amount of Compulsion they rely upon... They're as out of their depth as Rand is when he stars ruling Tear.
The age of legends is a post modern society, the age before is modern time(or like 1990s when the books were being written). They have huge cities and industries for everything and the only reason it came down is that they sensed the True Power(aka the Dark One's power) and tried to access it, but accessing it means drilling the dark one's prison so the bore was formed and he could influence the world again. This is described in the scene in Shadow Rising where Rand sees through the eyes of his ancestors and he sees the floating circular building coming down(where the experiments were happening and where it all went to shit), which started the war of power.
This absolutely does not make them bad villains. Like they can compulse anyone into giving them huge amounts of anything, like what Graendal does with all her servants. Also Be'lal, Sammael and Rahvin all settled down as COMPLETE rulers of cities(dictators basically) so really nothing is this is stopping them.
Hey Mike,
Just want to say that I appreciate your honesty. Path of Daggers was the last book written when I first picked up this series so I understand your frustration. On the first read, you just want the main plot to go, go, go . . . and Jordan gives you the circus and Valan Luca. These plotlines are important . . . but they aren't the main plot and I completely get your frustration with the 'sidequests.'
I totally get your frustration with Elayne. She starts the series as my favorite of the supergirls along with Nyneave. Then she gets progressively dumber and makes more and more foolish decisions. Sigh.
As for Rand's power levels and how disorganized the Forsaken are. Could the main fight for the world have as much to do with Rand vs. his insanity as Rand and the forces of light vs. the Dark One, Forsaken, and all the darkfriends and shadowspawn? Rand has become more and more unstable and he just learned that Callandor has a major flaw.
Also, think about the people who want to become darkfriends or even Forsaken. What characteristics do they share? There's a big hint there as to why the Dark One accepts them and why they struggle to work together.
LOL . . . Min's DTF . . . .dayam. Not exactly the description I'd give. Ok, you didn't care for it, but it's the trope is you just saw/dealt with something truly horrific. You need some life-affirming action to counterbalance. This didn't bother me at all, but I can understand that it seems odd to you.
Keep going, MIke. It gets better, and not just when Sanderson takes over!!
I guess it's just that Min and Rand seemed so genuine and, dare I say, romantic? But one book later she's all about that action while Rand is pouring his heart out. It didn't ruin the relationship for me, it just seemed odd. I'm all aboard the Hate Elayne Train. I look forward to seeing how this all plays out with the Forsaken.
I just finished the book 10 minutes ago and I am so pumped up about it!!! I'm sad you didn't like it!! I really loved the book! So many battles and action so it didn't feel sloggy at all. I agree that I didn't like Morgase's story at all, but the new twist with her being teamed up with Perrin has made me interested again. So many cliffhangers, it makes me excited to read the next book :)
Agreed I really enjoyed this book just finished it! Dashivas plot was awesome everything ashaman in this book is so interesting among so much else ofcourse
These videos are a ton of fun. Thanks for sharing your reaction/responses to this series. I read the series growing up and had to wait at least a year between reads. It probably changed my attitude toward the slog. Personally, I love the volume of world building he does. Yes, I’ve been bored and frustrated by chapters of details and pages describing the curtains. In the end, I love it. More by choice and sheer respect for the world and characters Robert put all his energy into. It stands as the most epic epic of all time. I think the high level of detail ultimately contributes to the series success. If, as a reader, I have to practice stamina to get to the goods, well then, how like life!
I am still very high on the series. 8 tomes in and this is the first one I'd say I disliked (but did not hate). Journey before destination.
Also remember the Seanhan general who was crying and one who lead the retreat. It is nice when you see them again to remember they were the same one from this book
Huh. Okay.
I appreciate your honesty and candor as I've been binging your readthroughs. Winters heart I liked better on a reread so I'm excited to see your point of view.
Thanks! I always say I’m not going to BS or pander on this channel and I’ll always be honest. Just watch my Lies of Locke Lamora video. I, too, suffer from unpopular opinions from time to time. But I love way more of WoT than I dislike.
Another thought, I like how he puts his characters through real trauma. Beyond being tainted by the dark one’s touch, Rand is suffering ongoing emotional, physical, mental and spiritual trauma. All his characters are suffering and it really builds nicely. The geopolitical stuff is slow, but it adds realism. As a reader, it all pays off. Stay the course. The second act is books 4-10. The third act needs the build up.
I am LOVING Rand's slow descent into madness. I mean, it really began (IIRC) in Dragon Reborn. I'm happy it didn't happen over the course of one book. That's a slow burn I'm all for.
Yeah, it gets heart breaking. So good! And the payoff is solid!
@@samuelhaines617 totally agree, he becomes one of the scariest characters for me. I LOVE his arc, the final chapter of the second to last book and the first chapter in the final book are probably my favorites in the whole series. Fantastic stuff
This review is pretty spot on from my perspective. One thing that I love about your reviews are how you always mention these seemingly trivial things (caught two in this one) that seem to have no meaning - however, the ones you mention almost always do. When you wrap up this series I'll have to remember to come back to this specific video to point out two things that make a lot more sense at the end.
Thanks so much for saying so. I think that’s why when I miss a detail, like how Rand retrieved Callandor, folks call me out for it.
On my fourth read through the series and I'm always amazed at just how much foreshadowing and setup is sprinkled throughout the entire series from book one
Nae’blis was mentioned at least a few times a few books ago when some of the forsaken were being summoned for orders in the pit of doom, The Dark One “promised” the title to at least a few of them, so this wasn’t the first time this name was mentioned.
I think I agree with the decision of reading 9 and 10 together. Those two books kind of are a pair and I feel like they could have been merged into one book with some of the filler trimmed down. Like I think mentioned before, I feel like Jordan started fumbling with the pacing in book 8 and he doesn't really get control of it until book 11
That seems to be the common review I hear of this stretch. After hearing about book 10, I certainly couldn't take a break between 9 and 10 or I might end up with another 6 month break.
Your comment right at the 24 minute make is tight on point. Brandom Sanderson spoke about this in an interview with Daniel Green. He said before he started work on WoT, he re read the whole series and made notes on which plot lines were still hanging and made plans to tie them up.
I'm glad you understood what I meant. Some took it the wrong way, even after I clarified what I meant. But I understand folks are very protective of this series.
Yeah, Winter’s Heart isn’t great but at least it’s not Crossroads of Twilight. That one almost broke me.
I'm expecting CoT to be so bad that at this point it can only be better than I'm expecting...I hope.
I prefer to let someone make up their own mind on if they like a book or not, not everything is for everyone, wh was more of a drag for me myself, but big stuff happens in the book def worth continuing. I always love to hear anthers take on something i read whether we feel the same about it or not its all good. keep em coming man :)
Like I said at the end, I still feel like the story is incredibly strong, just too much filler this go around.
Your review as always is amazing. Even if I don’t always agree with you, always respect your opinion. You always bring a cohesive argument to your videos that a lot of people don’t.
books 8, 9 and (especially) 10 are definitely the worst of the series, but book 11 (written by rj) is amazing, one of the best. you can feel the change right on the first few pages of the prologue, feel that it's going to be something special. and the three books by sanderson are awesome as well, so don't be sad! i read a memory of light (14) in four days, and i cried my eyes out many times. probably the most amazing ending to a series i've ever read.
I'm definitely not sad since I was expecting some slow down. But I am a little bummed everyone seems to trash this stretch of the books but some don't like me being critical of it in a review? Seems odd.
@@mikesbookreviews people are odd hahaha. in my opinion, though i did say those were 'the worst of the series', they are most definitely NOT bad books. in fact, i breezed through most of them just fine. they're just slow due to how robert jordan structured the plot during this period. people are too critical for their own sake. i enjoyed all wot books because i loved those characters so so so much and honestly to me nothing else matters in this regard :D
8,9, and 10 were honestly really hard to get through for me. I tried to tell myself I only thought that because I was aware before hand that those books were often called “the slog.” Book 11 has started off like a rocket and it’s amazing.
Ive been loving your reviews. I always enjoy hearing first time readers opinions, but i definitely think where jordan shines is in the rereads, when you can pick up on all the small brilliant foreshadowing. If you reread this series, in the first book, jordan in one sentence gives practically the ending scene of the whole series.
I said in a previous video that I'll enjoy looking back at Min's early viewings after I finish.
Just finished this one minutes ago, and so far in this series the only really lame part to me has been the menagerie stuff back in...Fires of Heaven?...I think
YES, luca can go screw off
I didn’t mind the first trip with the circus. It was when Matt had his trip with luka that I groaned over.
@@brett88knightspoilers!
One of the main reasons the Light survives is the Chosen are only concerned with their own power. If they ever learned to collaborate they would win hands down.
Well, that's what I'm hoping for. I need them to be serious threats and in book 10 currently, they don't.
did you catch the Verin piece in the prologue where she's using compulsion on the aes sedai? or her inner monologue? that inner monologue will be important in a few books!
I do the same thing with named characters: only learn them if they pop up a lot. Even in re-reads my brain is all "who??" sometimes.
I don't think RJ knew what to do with Perrin. From what I understand, he didn't leave many notes on Perrin for Sanderson to work with, which was probably a good thing because Sanderson took Perrin and breathed new life into him! Sanderson gave him probably my favorite scene in the entire series! People also always blame Faile for Perrin's issues. She isn't the cause, like at ALL. Perrin is a grown man who makes his own choices.
Your comparison of Forsaken with The Plan is totally spot on!! I never made that connection before but I love it!
Rand sends Narishma to get Callandor. Which fulfills one specific prophesy. Remember when Narishma says Rand hadn't told him everything about the traps and he nearly died getting it, and then hands Rand a bundle? That was when he delivered the sword.
I hope people aren't being jerks to you in the comments as you read through this series. I'm impressed at how few spoilers have happened for you, though!
I didn't really talk about it but each book I keep getting further convinced that either Cadsuane or Verin is a Darkfriend. Just not sure which one yet. I'm definitely hoping Sando can resurrect Perrin. The Cylons think the Forsaken are clowns. I totally missed the Callandor thing.
@@mikesbookreviews the prophecy line was "He who draws it out shall follow after" I believe. And that's part of why Rand trusts Narish (as much as he trusts anyone, these days). I 100% missed it the first time, too.
On one hand, I want to hear ALL your Cadsuane and Verrin theories! On the other hand, I'm afraid people will spoil one of THE BEST White Tower scenes if you do. Ehhhhhhhh ok I can wait to hear what your theories were, after you read it.
Man, now that I think about it, nearly half of my top ten favorite scenes in the whole series were written by Sanderson. RJ did an amazing job and I don't mea to take anything away from that. But Sanderson got the privilege to write the culmination of everyone's journey and he did a fantastic job ❤️
why does the queen bend a knee to Perrin right away? Ta’veren
It's starting to feel the the ol' Star Wars explanation of: But how? Well, it's the Force.
Personally I found it organic and it seems to be a part of the mechanics of that world, as ’the force’ in star wars, even if I never thought of it that way.
@@joakimnyback1931 Oh, I didn't mean it to sound snarky. I'm a huge Star Wars fan and that was meant as a compliment.
Mike's Book Reviews I didn’t take it that way 😜👍🏻
@@joakimnyback1931 Okay, good. Tone is the biggest downfall in social media communication, so I just wanted to make sure. I appreciate the discussion!
Edit: I originally posted this in the wrong video.
I understand you're frustration with this book. I have to say that I enjoyed it more on rereads because of a the little things you pick up. Like Callandor. He was lugging it around for throughout most of the book
Ha ha I figured. I'm sure I'd catch the Callandor thing on a re-read.
Jordan has a great style, unfortunately the storytelling of the entire series is much the same as for individual books. Each book has a world building central section with some mildly exciting mini climatic events that are all geared toward making the books climatic ending perfectly satisfying. Likewise the entire series is much the same, with each book's climatic ending being a mini climatic event for the whole. Unfortunately this book was the world building that is important to the whole series, but just lacked any real satisfying obstacles that could give us a real climatic resolution to any of them.
I definitely see that. Where each one could almost be viewed as a closed end of a season of TV, this one felt like a "part one" of a longer story.
The series is formulaic?
I've just completed my read of Crossroads of Twilight myself. The "slog" of 7-10 was only truly felt in book 10 for me. It was hard to get through. It had a few character moments (maybe 3) and only maybe the last 10 pages are needed. Good news is that 11 looks like it has potential to be good and move the story since books 9 and 10 both happen at the same time but from different POV. The Supergirls and the Shaido, I feel you. They are not hated but they're Boring. Keep up the good work. Really enjoying the reviews.
Thanks for watching! Just the last 10 pages, huh? Crazy to think about judging by the size of it on my shelf right now.
I agree. I’m almost done with 10 and it’s tough. 8 and 9 were fine, not top tier but still good.
Oh, I hate Nynaeve, with a passion.
Hard to read her chapters. Or those with her in them.
But that true for almost all of them.
I just like Siuan and Min.
The best part of this book is that it lays the groundwork for Talmanes to become my stealth favorite character.
Hey Mike, love your reviews. I’m on a first read, just finished PoD and actually I really enjoyed it.
Some things really stood out for me. I’ve been waiting for more Verin and I feel like we finally got a peak into her potential brilliance in the prologue. Elayne’s weave nuke was an epic scene I totally didn’t anticipate. I loved Rand and the Asha’mans descent into madness and the poignant ending with Morr as well as the tension with Taim. That hit hard.
But I agree that some things just felt..kinda lame. I’m not too bothered by the Shaido, the seafolk or kin, or all the nobles ( too many names ). Egwenes chapters were the hardest for me - so far Egwene is my least favourite character.
I think your review is absolutely spot on!
Thanks. I don't think I hated it as much as folks are assuming, it's just probably my least favorite thus far.
Reading this one felt like....150 pages-payoff, 150 more pages-payoff, until the end. The setup for the farm was brutal. The setup for rand was also a snooze. I liked the callandor scene a lot, but was bummed it didn't pan out how I wanted. I was hoping when he finally brought it out it would be this big climax where rand is having a size measuring contest with an enemy or two, and he just whips out callandor and nukes the place. But I guess this gives him more balance. Perrin chapters are also giving me sighs now, which is big sad. We get it Jordan, Fail is fiesty. Can't wait for the Shaido to be gone too. Lots to rant about..
On to winters heart I guess....
I've enjoyed watching these videos. Thank you for putting them up. I've also avoided commenting, mostly because I'm a little fuzzy on which things happened in which books and I don't want to spoil anything if I accidentally jump ahead. I felt the same way you did, especially with the slow development of the bowl of the winds. I also wanted to tear someone's hear out with the resolution of that thread.
That's what I appreciate from Wheelies the most; they have no interest in spoiling things for the new readers.
I remember this as being one of my favorites.
Great review. Im glad you gave a honest opinion and not cater to the fandom like some reviewers would do. Im onto winters heart too, right after I finish the litrpg Im listening to.
I won't lie, I was worried about that. When I said I thought the bulk of Fires of Heaven was sloggy there wore some torches and pitchforks. But I'll never BS about how I feel towards a story. This book isn't all bad, but it's far from all good. But I DID really like the parts I liked.
Thank you. Any time Elaine is in the book, if Rand is not around, is absolutely awful! She's supposed to be likeable, but in this book you find out that she's super, super, sexist and absolutely dreadful to any and every man. You see this most with Mat Cauthon.
I understand that in this setting most women should be sexist, but you don't want the heroes of the story to be sexist. Not, "it's hard to trust a man" sexist... It's "let's pelt stuff at his head because we can, and he's just a man, so it doesn't matter," kind of sexist.
It was so hard to get through those first few chapters. I just wanted to reach into the book and punch her in her upturned nose.
I don't notice romance in books or what would be considered good or bad. When I hear people complain about people just meeting and falling in love I consider it Pattern/tarver'in related. The last battle is coming and Romance is also another coincidence that is increasing like all the ancient powers returning e.g. Min's Viewing and Wolf Brothers. The same with the Rand's three "lovers". Rand hasn't fallen in love with 3 women and vice versus. It's *the Dragon* must love these three women for Tarmon Gaiden to be successful. (Politics).
something to look forward to, In the "Shaido book" hang in there because Perrin starts to be redeemed again. Get through the next 2 books and then you will really enjoy the rest of the books. In addition, Jordan outlined the rest and wrote a bunch of the posthumous books.
Right now the comment I get the most is some form of “just get to Knife of Dreams”
I kept waiting for a positive comment....and there wasn't a single one. "I have more negative than positive" indicates at least one positive! LMAO
Notes I took while listening at work:
1 - Elayne & Aviendha are never more than sisters. You're hearing a bunch of juvenile wishful thinking.
2 - Perrin is ta'veren & a representative of Rand, & Alliandre was desperate. It's not that big of a surprise that she swore to him. He accepted in Rand's name because he knew he needed to.
3 - The purpose of the Shaido at this point is Moridin using them to create chaos in the world.
4 - Nae'Blis isn't a name. It's the title for the highest of the Chosen.
5 - Rand sent Narishma for Callandor right before that battle. He chides Rand for setting traps that he didn't tell him about.
6 - I think Min was trying to comfort & distract Rand, not be callous.
Positive comments: 1) I love the way Jordan writes Lews Therin in Rand's head 2) I liked the whole battle sequence, including Rand taking his first loss 3) I think Faile is a shrewd politician for her husband 4) It takes awhile to get there, but I loved the nuking of the Seanchan from Elayne 5) Rand with Callandor was an amazing moment
Just because I didn't specify what was positive and what was negative doesn't mean I didn't have positive thoughts.
I wasn't sure whether you liked what Elayne did or not, and I didn't catch that other stuff. I'm glad you liked some of it!
@@sidhedanu I'll admit my frustrations probably seemed more prevalent, as it WAS a very frustrating read for me. About 300-350 pages were solid WoT for me. I just didn't like how long it took to get there most of the time and characters I want more of still being sidelined or MIA.
Don't worry, everyone you're excited to see will come back and do great things. :D
I’m sure. I remember when the last book came out and a friend was blown away at how well everything was tied up.
Rand sent Narishma to retrieve Callandor
I totally missed it. Must have been snoozing.
It's funny because it's never explicitly stated, just earlier Rand entrusts Narishma with a super important top secret mission and then he goes off and no one knows what he's up to until he returns with Callandor
I fall asleep during audiobooks. Especially during slogs. 😴
@@block4562 I was starting to feel like I had missed a chapter.
@@Hadrian1616 Everyone tells me the narrators are so good.
Rand sent the Ashaman Nashima or something like that to retrieve calondor from the Stone.
Oh, I've been informed. I completely missed it.
Just finished TPOD this morning. I liked it more than you did, but I have to agree the first 200ish pages was a slog until it took off for me. No disrespect of anyone's opinion, the world would be boring if we all agreed and people's differing perspectives are always interesting to me. Overall I liked the book but could certainly have used some Mat, and the Aes Sedai are an absolute mess but I believe it was done that way on purpose leading up to something; I am a first time reader of WOT as well so I don't know yet. Looking forward to reading WH and thanks for taking the time to put all these reviews together.
For sure. Thanks for watching! I’m glad others enjoyed this one more than I did.
I know this is completely off topic but I REALLY hope you read the manga Berserk (forgive me if I've said that to you before I recommend it to literally everyone and lose track, I even got my mom to read it lol she loved it). The first two or three volumes are definitely not the best intro for the story but it will make more sense later, but the rest through volume 13 in particular are fucking mind blowing. There's 41 volumes in total but it really isn't too bad of a reading endeavor because it's basically like a comic and the artwork is absolutely incredible especially after he refines his style after the third volume. Insane how one man wrote and drew every frame it's incredible. Super easy to have one of the biggest moments spoiled if you look up stuff online it's an incredibly dark and impactful part of the story that pretty much stays burned in the mind of everyone who's read it.
I've had too many recommendations for it at this point not to at least have it on my radar.
i would just like to point out that nae'blis was first mentioned at the beginning of Lord of Chaos when demondred is talking to the dark one. if I recall correctly. Love your thoughts though I agree with most of your opinions on the series and its great to see someone else going through the journey. Also Agree, not a fan of the shadow stuff.
I think I missed it in LoC because that was when I first reached the point of "name overload." That was when I had started ignoring a ton of new names unless they showed up multiple times. But I recognized that name as someone of importance because of the RUclips channel that has adopted it.
I think you're right on the money here. The last time I re-read the series - right before AMOL came out - I read synopses for books 7-10. I'd dive into the book for a good battle or scene, but I couldn't deal with Perrin and the Shaido ("Where's Faile!!!"), Mat and Luca, and pretty much everything the Aes Sedai were doing. Sanderson's books, while not perfect, saved the series IMO and really make for a fantastic ending.
While I'm sad to see Jordan go, I am optimistic about seeing what Sanderson can do in this sandbox.
@@mikesbookreviews I was sad to see him go, too. He created an incredible world that has been an important part of my life. I think a lot of the best parts of the final books were written, or at least outlined, by Jordan. Sanderson was then able to fill in the blanks, pick up the pace, and effectively tie up the many, many plot lines.
The best part about a re-read is skipping over the chapters you don't care for. ;)
Everyone has their own opinions with this series and the characters. I really liked all the stuff about the Aiel and their culture. I personally enjoyed all of the books, though if I had to pick my least favorite part it would be the part that has to do with Perrin, Faile, and Morgase (which you are just getting to).
It's rough. To hell with the Shaido. I like the Aiel fine, I'm just kind of over the Wise Ones.
@@mikesbookreviews yeah, the wuse ones are super frustrating when they're not showing up aes sedai in Tel'aran'rhiod or being genuinely warm towards Egwene, but I love the maidens of the spear. Their relationship with Rand is super humanizing in my opinion.
I agree with everything you said in this review. It wasnt my least favorite, but Path of Daggers is low in my personal rankings. I 100% agree with the sentiment that 8-10 should have been a single book (or maybe 8-11 should have been 2 books combined not four?), and that they let Jordan get away with poor editing because of his reputation. Doesnt make him a bad writer, and honestly it doesnt necessarily make his editorial team bad either. Its just a thing that sometimes happens when writers start to get bigger. Ive seen it happen in different ways for other writers too. Still one of my favorite book series! And i think there was a lot done right overall, but this is my major criticism of the series.
It happens to a lot of authors that get a some stroke within a publishing company. That's the only way I'm able to explain how Stephen King's Tommyknockers happened.
I'm about to speak blasphemy (for Mike :P) but it's the same with Stephen King. Maybe it's a thing when you become a writer who brings in the big bucks but Stephen King is notorious for having books that are in desperate need of a good editing job. Needful things anyone? Where was Harriet ? Jordan's wife was his chief editor. Where was she on this?
@@williamjones3534 Yo, even I brought up Tommyknockers. There are King books that are long where I think it's justifiably so (IT, The Stand) and those that feel like his editor was asleep behind the wheel (Under the Dome, Insomnia, Desperation).
@@mikesbookreviews I stand corrected Mike😊
Forgive my ignorance. I have not viewed all of your videos. However we can all agree editing for both authors was sorely needed😉
@@williamjones3534 Oh I know that. I meant my response to the original comment by Samantha I referenced Tommyknockers being because of bad editors.
I feel your criticisms were very fair. Thank you for making these videos
Thank you for watching them!
Viewer request!!! Do you do that? Haha 🤣 when you finish A Memory of Light (last book) I want to see an immediate reaction video (like, go live right after you finish), and then another video 48 hours later. After it all marinated for a few days. Yeah? 🤩
If this is the case, I might actually read the final 2-3 chapters on camera.
I just know that for ME... I was like “wow.. wow.. um.. what just happened to me? Wow..” for about 8 hours after I read it. And then a few days later I had a lot to talk about haha 🤣 being able to look back on the story as a whole?? Phew... it took me back 🤯
@@madisongoodyear5040 dis gon be gooood.
Your reviews are dope, don't worry about any haters bro. Looking forward to watching the rest!
Thanks! I'm so glad folks enjoy them.
17:50 Dashiva went to get it for him, and almost died because of it. That and Rand’s stupid decision to fight the Seanchan despite the strangeness of Saidin is what led Dashiva and the others to try and kill him
Narishma went and got Callandor, him and Flinn still seem loyal to Rand at the end of book 8
First time reader of the series. I had meant to listen to these reviews as I read them since you kind of coaxed me into reading the series. I agree the ladies can be a bit annoying, but I think their story arcs are very important, thus I liked #8! Also being 600 pages felt about the right length. The fact you missed some key hints means that series fatigue is a real problem. So good luck trying to crank through 9/10 as a bang bang!
I agree about the prologues in this series, overlong and sometimes almost unnecessary. Brandon Sanderson does more in the prologues in Stormlight Archive in less than 20 pages.
Those prologues are getting stupid. 87 pages for Winter's Heart prologue?? That's almost 1/7th of the book.
I've read all 14 books four times since I first picked up TEoTW in 2000. Books 9 and 10 are def my least fav books, followed by 8 and 11, BUT I feel that serves two purposes. 1. It makes even the worst parts of the best books seem more acceptable and 2. It adds a real world negative emotional affect to coincide with the downward spiral our five main fictional friends are all experiencing. Kinda like Stephen King's Hearts in Atlantis, half of that book was amazing the other half of that books soul purpose seemed to be to make the reader uncomfortable, bored, and oogied Out anytime the reader ever thought about war in the real world. Sneaky sneaky psychological conditioning imo. Enjoying your channel keep up the good work!
Your methods make a ton of sense and as a King honk, I definitely like that HoA comparison.
I’ve been going through this series and watching your videos after each book and man, you hit my feelings on the head! I’m done with the shaido and this was the first time I heard that winters heart is all about them… painful. I didn’t hate this book. It had some really amazing moments. But as you mentioned, the tedium of reading hundreds of pages of them just bickering is getting a bit overdone.
“The crest!” Birgitte shouted joyfully. “We made it! It’s good wine and a well set-up man tonight!”
I’d like to point out that when Rand wonders about how to cure the Taint on Sidine we get a hint about one of the questions Rand asks when going into the doorway back in shadows rising. I kinda guessed this bc if Rand saying the answer was in a riddle and it makes me excited that he is thinking of a solution.
Another great review. Always my first video when I finish a book in this series.
I just finished this book and while I think I liked it more than you, I agree with most of your points. This book could have been New Spring length and probably have been much more enjoyable of a read. Things just take way too long to happen. My main issue is how many characters Jordan needs to name. I feel like him naming every single person who walks in and out of a room extends these chapters from 5 pages of content to almost 20 pages. I noticed this first during Lords of Chaos with the Aiel people and now it has extended to most of the sub-cultures we see. While I still really liked this book and 2 or 3 of the events were huge (Bowl of the Wings, disassembling weaves, the battles with Seanchan, and the last like 40 pages) it was just way too long. Excited for book 9 but at this point I expect my eyes to glaze over for over half of the book.
So. Many. Names. And details about characters we'll never see again. I stand by my opinion that books 8-10 could have been cut down to one incredible book.
I started the series in january and finsihed IT a month ago. I didnt enjoy path of daggers, the next book i liked more. I aggree that there is to much shaido,sevanna🤬. Keep reading, it gets alot better👍👍👍
I don;t think anything could stop me at this point. I mean, I finished Dark Tower after all and it derailed wayyyyyyyyyy worse than this.
Watching these after the fact (and having read WoT since the first book was published in 1990), I honestly wish you hadn't been repeatedly warned about certain books (like, oh this book is a Shaido book). Reading them as they were published, I never considered these books a "slog". I just felt they were not written with a beginning, a middle and an end. Some of the most awesome events in the series happened in these books. The climax may just happen in the middle of the book while the end peters out. The writing itself felt the same to me, just a difference in organization. But back to your review, it seems much of it comes down to comments about what people have warned you about, and that's unfortunate. I think the best way to avoid that in the future is to record your responses as you read each book in a series, but not upload them and read comments until you finish the whole series.
Path of Daggers was my least favorite book, I think it gets better from here, a lot of people think book 10 is the worst, I disagree. POD leaves out several important characters and accomplishes very little, COT catches up on what all the characters have been up too during the last 2 books, if it wasn't for the great ending in WH I would put it below COT as well.
It's funny; almost everyone trashes books 8-10, but here I have more negative than positive thoughts on PoD and some seem to be surprised. I think maybe it's like that little brother thing where you can pick on them, but no one else can.
For me, I wouldn't say book 10 was the worst, but that I enjoyed it the least.
Book 9 was released while I was reading the first 8 for the first time, so book 10 was the first book I actually had to wait for, and then after the world changing events wrapping up book 9, I was HYPED. Then I read ten and not that not much happened, but that the world's TIMELINE didn't progress. I had to wait AGAIN for book 11 to see the world after the book 9 change.
No problems with opinions Mike. I’ll stick around. This book has some amazing scenes; Elayne the hero with the unweaving of the gateway, Egwene (and Siuan) manipulating herself into power, and of course Fedwin Morr’s death by Rand’s hand. It was very dusty in the room when I read that last part... Peace.
I just found your channel and have watched your opinion from why you're going to start reading through this one so far. Always great to hear other readers feel. Still my favorite series
Pronunciation . . .
Jordan was quick and even sharp to correct pronunciation of his fans. Sanderson has a much more laid back attitude, and I tend to agree a lot more with him. If you like a pronunciation, go with it. When you share your thoughts I'm glad to hear them and can set aside that you say a name differently than I do. After all, I had to put up with that when I listened to the audio books. Even between the two narrators, a husband and wife duo, the two had some differences. As long as I know who you are talking about, we've communicated successfully and we're good.
Now, there is a name that I don't believe I've heard you say. She is one of the forsaken. I could not figure out how I wanted to pronounce her name. It was at best awkward and confusing. Then I watched a video where someone asked Jordan how to pronounce a name. He gave the pronunciation followed by a string of names. Some of these were the same as I expected and some not. From that video the name of this forsaken went from being awkward to being one of my favorite names in the series. Semirhage. Most often when I hear it, it ends with a hard 'g', like dog. I won't hate you if you say it this way. Jordan's pronunciation is three syllables ending with a soft 'g' like mirage. I've tried unsuccessfully to find that video after the series ended.
Ha ha I've heard so many recommend the audiobooks, but at the same time complain that they change words/names constantly in them.
I prefer to read the book, especially the first time. However. I also find that I like to listen to the books while I driver alone, for example awhile commuting to and from work. In all honesty, the two who read these are the best. If you find any work narrated by Michael Kramer and Kate Reading, you'll like the performance, despite pronunciation problems.
@@scootskute I struggle with audiobooks. A real ADD thing.
We all get to be different. We can all enjoy these stories in our favorite way. When I listen on the car, I know that driving is primary and often find that I've focused on driving and missed things in the book. That is one reason I prefer to read the print first, so I don't have to scan back to follow and enjoy a story.
Just finished The Path of Daggers and I watch your vids along after I finish each book and I agree. This book was a drag and I gave up reading it and just looked up a summary video and online summaries as well just so I can make sure I am up to speed on things. I was not into this one and I'm scared to get into Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight (especially book 10). I want to barrel through this chunk so I can get to Knife of Dreams which is what I am craving to get to. I do love this series like you do but yeah TPoD was a rough and very dry read.
I think the old sword Rand uses was given to him from Perrin before the Dumai's weels battle. I have just read Lord of Chaos and Faile gives a sword to Perrin asking him to deliver it to Rand.
What did you think about Rand using "wine" on the Ashaman protecting Min ? (And the off-screen where he went mad)
I think Taim summed up my feelings perfectly: “You are harder than I thought.”
Just finished reading book 8. So far books 7 and 8 have been my favorite. The slog has yet to begin.
Book 6 was more of a slog than anything. I begin book 9 very soon!
Is anybody going to mention the chapter where 2 Aes Sedai were found brutally murdered? One of them had a wooden stake hammered into her chest!
For me, I was already on edge during the chapters of Elayne and company because of that golam. This part of the book had me cringing as if I was watching a horror film.
Yeah, Rand didn’t fight a forsaken in this book - but I'm cool with that. IMO he had to fight something worse - a monster of his own creation. On the laundry list of terrifying things to happen - having your own powerful army (that you created!) turn against you is one of them.
And what about that woman, who used to be a man, just picking ppl off in the rebel Aes Sedai camp? There's a lot of tension in this book.
The chapters of the battle between Rand and the Seanchan were well done. I think this is the first battle where most of it is hidden from view, which makes it more nerve-wracking.
~“Triple scouts out. I mean to push hard, but I don’t want to trip over a damane.” No one laughed.~
The bowl of the winds scene and the scenes that followed were amazing. Loved those. Esp how, in all that panic and urgency, there's:
~"She had behaved as a queen was supposed to behave, and it had worked exactly as it was supposed to! She had taken charge, to lead people out of danger, and they followed! Her whole life had been training for this. It was satisfaction that made her laugh, and the hot glow of pride seemed about to burst through her skin like the radiance of saidar. Rounding the last curve, she pounded down the final straight beside one of the tall white-plastered barns. And her toe caught an almost buried stone. She pitched forward heavily, windmilling her arms, and suddenly she was somersaulting head-over-heels through the air. No time even to yell. With a thump that jarred her teeth and took all the wind out of her, she landed hard at the foot of the path, sitting right in front of Birgitte."~
Great review. Personally, I think Crossroads of Twilight is the biggest slog in the series. Path of Daggers is only the beginning.
While loving this series, I have always said that this series is about 10,000 pages of women talking to each other. It gets quite tedious.
IMO, Jordan hangs onto his villians for too long or brings the same damn villians back. I got sick of the Shaido and Padan Fain LONG before the end.
The Forsaken are the classic case of evil being too powerful to defeat IF they actually worked together, but because they are evil, they never will.
There is never a bad time to get down with Min. I love where her head is at. Thank God for her through this slog. She makes it a little bit more tolerable.
I'm re-reading the series now and I think I was a bit unkind in my characterisation of books 7-11 as "an unbearable slog." I'm enjoying it a lot more now. There are a lot of really important events in these books that I completely forgot about. That being said, Path of Daggers is one of my least favourites. It totally feels like a whole book of filler, like you said. I think its content should have been split between A Crown of Swords and Winter's Heart.
I’ve read way more unbearable books than this one.
I think you summed up Path of Daggers pretty well. There are some really slow parts that make it a tough read at times. It was at this point that I too started to groan everytime a Perrin chapter popped up. Winters Heart has some of the same issues but but is contrasted by some truly great scenes while Crossroads of Twilight is by far the most difficult to read of the entire "slog".
I feel like I'm just building up my strength for Crossroads at this point.
I don’t know if you’ve seen this but the title of naeblis is introduced in lord of chaos in the prologue with demandred it’s very brief. The dark one just asks would you be naeblis and demandred thinks through what that is which is the dark lords right hand
I finished this a couple of months ago. It was the first in the series that did not click for me. I felt like it had no climax and that it was all set up. So many stories and nothing really happens and I felt that the book ended right as it was getting started. No Mat was a big disappointment as well. Currently reading Knife of Dreams and I don't feel like Winters Heart was worse. I feel like Path of Daggers is for sure the low point of the series.
Lol, great review man! I’m rereading it now, love the series. But it definitely hits some low points, haha. No art’s above criticism
That's what everyone told me until I got to Knife of Dreams/Gathering Storm and I dared criticize Egwene. Now all of a sudden my reviews are crap.
My thoughts were that egwene and her story needed to happen to further her character and give her a backbone. Rand needed to take a fat loss and theoretically he did. He is gonna have to realize that people are gonna die bc of him men,women, and even children. Shoot him killing the young apprentice ashaman at the end of the book gave me goosebumps. I really felt like the pacing of the book was kinda all over the place at times. I agree the super girls chapters though they had their purpose with the bowl, should’ve been wrapped up sooner. My only justification is that the seanchan showed up and they were trying to flee. Every book leading up to this one was a great book this one was a “good” book.
Love your content I always come here after I finish a WOT book, can’t wait to see your thoughts on WH. I’m starting that one tomorrow!
I think you were gentle in your review, not sure you needed to be. This book was bad, but we will contiue with this series. Nothing much else to say.
Pacing in TPoD is the issue everything in the book happens in about 2 weeks (give it or take) time frame and a lot should had been trimmed from the book.
Reading TPod after ACOS was like hitting to a wall and I for one was quite disappointed especially after 2 years of waiting.
One more thing about the queen was that she knew Perring was a major domo for the dragon reborn and had an army with him and political situation was that queen had lost her poltical and real power to the prohet and his "army of peasants" so licking boot for the dragon reborns major domo sounds like deal if it might get your crown back eh ?
Sure, I get it. It was more of me laughing about Perrin's insistence that he not be called a lord. He very clearly is at this point.
yeah.. you deserve a sub. this review is so on point
edit: i agree on everything except faile and morgase. i cant stand her. id rather have more morgase and less faile. ive got a few chs left. ill have to turn this off towards the end
edit2: also happy that youre behind rand and min. ive been pro min since eye of the world. and this is where ill have to pause and come back
I kind of liked Path of Daggers. It's certainly not the Shadow Rising tier, but it's better than the Dragon Reborn or the Fires of Heaven IMO.
The borderlands meeting didn't really make sense but whatever foreshadowing, I can overlook not seeing them again. The bowl of the Winds usage was good world building, expanding our knowledge of circles while finally ending the "it's hot" story.
Egwene's scheme was clever, maybe it's a bit trope-y but her growth in the series is one of the best for any character, and this adds another layer. Egwene settling the Hall behind her is a lot more than just making a decision (and indecisiveness has been a well foreshadowed flaw of Aes Sedai).
Perrin's falcon and hawk story line is starting to become worn, but him dealing with the dragonsworn makes a bit of sense and it's reasonable that he would be an emissary for Rand, seeing as his Ta'varen talent is leadership.
The shaido should have died at Dumai's well, but whatever.
The Seanchan and Rand is perhaps the best conflict seen so far? Maybe the battle of two rivers is better, but the Seanchan are very competent and learning about their military structure is great. More importantly, Rand finally started eating the cost of madness and the taint on the power. This has been foreshadowed since the beginning and it's finally being expressed. Instead of another generic anime battle between Rand and the Forsaken, we see Rand lose in many ways, all reasonable. I'm excited to see how he can come back from being shown a mad man infront of the nobles.
The Tar Valon sedai finally using the oath rod to root out the black ahaj is relieving. This has been a plot hole for me forever, so I'm glad it's finally being addressed
I totally agree with all of your criticisms. I listened to it via audiobook so I had a less bad experience
The prologues are certainly tough in a few of the books lol. tPoD for me wasn't too bad, bit slow but overall a solid entry to the series. I personally loved Winter's heart i didn't feel there was much of a drag but i think this is an unpopular opinion lol. Book 10 is the only book i really felt the slog, that shit DRAGGED but book 11 made up for that tenfold! Imo the only thing that made the slog bad was Perrin, Elayne and the Shaido. Keep pushing through and enjoy!
While the reception seems mixed on WH, damn near everyone says CoT is a tough read. Nothing could stop me at this point.
Enjoy your reviews and having read this series in it's entirety numerous times, I agree for the most part.
Question? Have you read Steven Erikson's; Malazan Book of the Fallen series? If not, I highly recommend it and in my opinion it is the pinnacle of Fantasy.
It is in the plans for my next big epic read through, voted on by the readers. Current plan is Gardens of the Moon next January.
To me this book was not nearly as bad as the Internet community made me expect it to be. I think the slow parts are not exclusive to this book and have been around throughout the whole series, and I'm comfortable going along with the slower pace because I enjoy spending time on this world. Also this book was way shorter than the books before, so it was a swift struggle-less read through.I think another big factor that helped me with the enjoyment was starting to use "Wheel of Time Compendium" to keep up with all the Aes Sedai and Asha Man, cause to be fair the amount of recurring secondary characters is getting ridiculous. I do have a number of criticisms of the story overall, but to me so far the slog has been nowhere as bad as I expected.
My only disagreement is the Shaido ending in FoH with Couladin, only because I think they should have been recruited by the tower emissary and actually finalised at Dumai's Wells. Then the leftovers either convert to team dragon or join the shadow.
I've sat WoT books down for several reasons and for a various lengths of time. This was the longest break (2-3 weeks) I took where I sat the book down because it honest to god lost me. I did not feel like coming back to it for some reason. I ended up reading it, and I've only got a couple of things (call them grievances) I'd like to air as a first time reader.
I get that Perrin needed marriage advice. Why did it have to be Elyas? Why not Tam, a very well traveled Two Rivers man? Why are they bringing MORE Aes Sedai into the story? Definitely the first time I've had to google a few names, and I'm pissed because I accidentally spoiled some of the story for myself doing so.
Oh, and one more thing. I hate the Athan Miere!!!
I just finished this book. Reading it felt like diving for pearls in a septic tank.
Lololol
This was a pretty negative review, but it's understandable. It has been awhile since my first read through, and I remember being frustrated by many parts of it, especially the Shaido, but they are integral in Perrin's story. Knowing what I know, after reading it several times, of course, when you are giving your review, I am going "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T LIKE THAT PART!" and then I go, well, he doesn't know this and this. It is actually kind of cool to see your angst and disappointments. I hope you enjoy the rest of the series, especially how it ends, and look forward to your reviews.
As far as Callendor, it is in the book how he gets it, but if you blink, you missed it.
I’m aware, or I’ve been told rather, that many of these things will be different in a re-read. Perhaps someday!
Awesome video man thank you!
Ya this book inexplicably took me longer to finish than the longest books in the series (The Shadow Rising, Lord of Chaos) and I couldn't figure out why...but this is why! Ha ha! Also, you seem like a charming guy :)
A bit late to the game, but I appreciate your opinion and honesty with everything. Nothing is ever perfect, but as a whole, the series is very good.
On a 1st read I disliked the majority of this book as well. Super girls do grind my gears no end. I do like Elayne & Aviendha's relationship, but their adoration for each other seems somewhat juvenile at times. Rands insanity is awesome. The shaido should have been wiped out @ dumais Wells. But, it's a good book, just not vintage WOT. Better to come, even from your boy Lan. Anyway, great review as always. Thanks for the content. Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas to you, too! I do really love Rand's insanity moments. Especially when he's engaging with Lews Therin.
Yeah. 8, 9, and 10 are just building up to the events in book 11, which is why they feel so rough.
I think he should have smooshed 8 and 9 together and cut a lot of fat, since 9 has a real strong ending.
Then he should have put 10 and 11 together. Because next to nothing happens in 10.
11 is the final Robert Jordan Book, and it's one of his best.
8-10 as one book could have been epic.
I’m in the middle of book 10 now on a re-read (first time since the series was finished). I pretty much agree with all your major points. Path of Daggers really suffers from not having any Mat chapters. He returns in the next book and is a highlight. I really wish RJ had killed Sevanna and written the Shaido out after Dumai’s Wells, but oh well. IMO book 9 is slightly better than 8, and book 10 is the sloggiest by far. Just stick it out and I’m certain you’ll like 11-14, which are all great and as good or better than any of the first 7.
Hearing things like that makes the journey worth it, IMO. Can’t wait to get there.
Perrin has people follow him due to his teveran nature, it’s hinted at a lot, that’s also why things happen to him that are very similar to what’s happened to him previously, because they’re unresolved & Hamid taveran nature requires those lose ends to be resolved
Yeah, I just try not to use that as an explanation every time so I don't sound like "oh, it was the Force" as I do every time there's a plot hole in a Star Wars book.
Mike's Book Reviews yeah very good analogy ‘the force’ is strong with these boys
Just going through this series now. I like your reviews. I really liked this book, but I don't mind Elayne most of the time. My biggest complaint is that it seemed RJ wanted there to be more in this book and I don't know if it was deadlines or what, but it seems there are some pieces that were cut out. I also disagree, I think a lot happened in this book which may have been why so much was cut out.
The reason for the random knee bending is because Perrin is Taverin. You missed that. Also yes you missed when Rand got Callendor( spelling). Narishma bitched at him for not giving ample or any warnings.