The Drydock - Episode 137
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- 00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:41 - Would the incomplete Imperator Nikolai I make a suitable aircraft carrier conversion for the Black Sea/Med?
00:04:12 - Negatives of high velocity guns?
00:08:51 - Assuming the Russians could complete the Nikolai by 1917, how would a fight between the Nikolai and the Yavuz/Geoben go down?
00:12:16 - How long does it take to make an episode of The Drydock? Also, how much, if any, research do you do for Drydock questions?
00:16:45 - Is there a better argument for calling the 16”/45 gun instead of the oft-hyped 16”/50 the best battleship gun in terms of design?
00:23:10 - How Good Was USS Enterprise’s Helmsman?
00:28:20 - If the Carriers were present during the 1st Battle of Savo Island would they have been any danger? How many escorts left with them? Could those escorts have made a significant contribution?
00:31:09 - HMS Prince of Wales crewman
00:34:38 - IJN Optical Landing System?
00:39:23 - How effective was the coastal submarine arm of the various major navies?
00:44:43 - Ship prefixes?
00:53:59 - What is the most successful naval bombardment of naval history?
00:58:11 - Was the USN Reserve Fleet the 2nd strongest fleet in the world at the end of WW2?
00:59:53 - Who's navy was stronger for their time, the Royal Navy at the end of Napoleonic wars or the US Navy at the end of WWII
01:02:50 - Luckiest survivor of a ship?
01:06:40 - Channel Admin
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
How would operation Rheinubung and the battle of the Denmark Strait have gone like, had Bismarck sailed with Tirpitz instead of Prinz Eugen (assuming Tirpitz was completed at least 4 months earlier)
Why the Russian Black Sea fleet in WW2 failed so badly, while having almost no opposition in the Black Sea
Whats the deal with battleships increasing in size but their secondary armaments remaining the same? Referring to the H-class, vanguard, lion class, etc
Would love to see someone make an H39 model whose secondaries actually fill up all that enormous space at the side - think 4 of those triple 6 inch turrets per side like those found on the nurnbergs?
To what extent were secondary armaments effective in surface engagements? Was a "secondary battleship" feasible? Or was it just a fantasy concept made by world of warships?
Or were secondaries more of a detriment? Adding more flammable magazines near the sides of the ship increases the risk of detonation?
Whats with the Japanese navy refusing to standardise gun turrets and mountings? For instance think the 100mm twins on the akizukis, various heavy cruisers and carriers. It's the same 100mm but why different mountings (some open mounts some enclosed etc)
Another example are the 5 inch twins - think the 5 inch twins on the destroyers VS the 5 inch twins on the yamatos? Why open mounts on the yamato? Why couldn't they do the same thing the USN did and just slap the same 5 inch twin everywhere?
Your narrative of the Enterprise under fire is golden. I'd listen to a whole Drydock's worth of just you commenting on historical naval footage.
OWARI DA!
@@SonOfAB_tch2ndClass I was waiting the Azur Lane comments to come through.
Balls of steel on the helmsman and the damage control crew. The gunners probably weren’t happy, but the rest of the crew owed them their lives.
I second that, i was amazed by that section, as ive never seen the enterprise move like that!
@@scottdrone-silvers5179 Helmsman nothing. Who had the conn? He was giving the orders, the helmsman was just following them - and the telegraph orders too.
I loved Drachs reaction to the Question involving the Enterprise. He was like a kid in a candy store ^^
USS Enterprise in 1942:
Length: 809 feet, or 246 meters overall.
Weight: 19,800 tons displacement empty, 25,500 tons displacement when fully loaded.
Crew: 2,217 officers and men.
Somehow, that crazy awesome helmsman is making all that ship do the Tokyo Drift. What trained him to steer a fleet carrier like this?!?
Brilliant content as always, Drach.
The secret was that the Enterprise was actually a flight deck mounted on a Fletcher class destroyer hull.
CV6 was built before the Fletcher class destroyers.
@@DanielBrown-sn9op it’s a joke
->the joke->->->
@@DanielBrown-sn9op
John 819 With some MTB genes thrown in for laughs.
top kek
"Fate favors old men, small boys, and ships called Enterprise." - William T. Riker ‐ Star Trek: the Next Generation
Most people: drifting cars is awesome
Enterprises helmsman: allow me to demonstrate the true height of awesome
I knew you put a LOT into this channel, but I am absolutely gobsmacked at the amount of time you invest.
I cannot thank you enough, Uncle Drach.
Seriously. I thought I had work-life balance issues. On the up side, though, the more Drach researches, the more of a pop naval powerhouse he becomes.
I'm calling it, Enterprise's helmsman probably is a skilled driver in his personal life.
Sports car? I can’t drive that you got any thing bigger? At least 5000 tons?
@@philvanderlaan5942 How about a mining dump truck?
@@Isolder74 sill a bit small but he might be able to drive it.
In interwar America he would have been a Bootlegger, probably in eastern TN or western NC.
@@michaelkaylor6770 you might have hit on the secret
The sheer childish glee in Drach’s voice as he watches the Enterprise maneuver like a jetski is heartwarming.
This is the second production of yours and the first Drydock that my five cats watched with much interest.
Careful! Before you know it you’ll be up all night, avoiding meals and responsibilities, and spending inordinate amounts of time jonesin’ for Drach’s content. 🤣😅 think I’m jokin?! You’ll see
Was the first the cat video?
That footage of The Mighty CV-6 manoeuvrability might explain her scrapping. The secret of USN Carrier agility had to be kept secret post-war
There was a guy in the great storm of 1703 that wrecked the channel fleet, who was the sole survivor of his ship, had been carried by a wave on to another ship and when that sank ended up washed into a boat. Not sure that beats being a human projectile to escape an exploding Battlecruiser though.
Regarding Imperator Nikolai I as an aircraft carrier conversion, there was consideration in 1924 of converting both the incomplete battlecruiser Izmail and the damaged Gangut-class Frunze (ex-Poltava). Izmail would be very obviously the most suitable of these hulls, Nikolai is roughly the same size as Frunze (though considerably heavier given the thicker armor) and thus would've been similarly workable for a conversion. Apparently, the reason she wasn't considered for the purpose is that she'd been neglected for several years and was even more dilapidated than the fire-ravaged Frunze. Though as a Gangut, Frunze would probably be a better choice on account of being a couple of knots faster even before you consider the benefits of removing the heavy armor and possibly installing newer machinery.
Bottom line, Nikolai could've been used as the basis for a solid 1st-generation aircraft carrier, but the Red Navy had better prospects they could've used.
Driving a car is so much more complicated than WASD, imagine having to evade bombs, shells, and torpedoes from the helm! Downright impossible I would think!
The helmsman of the USS Enterprise: _observe_
Fast and Furious Pacific drift. Would be the best title for what that Helmsman was doing with Enterprise.
Also because I’m a weeb. OWARI DA!
Exactly. I'm sure CV6 Captains learned how to best signal the helmsman hard a starboard!, hard a port!, rudder amidships!.
Pacific War II Electric Weebaloo.
That Enterprise footage really puts in perspective just how maneuverable these massive vessels could be
That Enterprise footage was amazing - I never imagined a ship that size could do that
The Enterprise footage is amazing, thank you for digging it out and showing it
Looks more like a skateboard than a carrier. Those turns are incredibly tight.
Remarkable footage of Enterprise; I've often read descriptions of such maneuvers but real footage is amazing for such a large ship.
GREAT footage from Enterprise. Seriously.
As far as 'most successful naval bombardment' goes, I'd submit the Anglo-Zanzibar War of 1896. All of it. Granted, not much else had time to happen in the 38 minutes of said war but the barrage did pretty much start and end the fighting.
Not a criticism, but a reminder to viewers that bomb hit on Big E's starboard gallery near the stern killed 17 of her crew. It always strikes me as especially poignant when despite all those meaningless statistics of millions and millions of deaths in WWII, some are tied to an actual occurrence that one can see. It is hard to fathom the deaths properly when capital ships go down with a thousand or more dead; Stalin was right in that it is mostly just a "statistic" (maybe we just aren't wired to grasp it all). But these ships did go down and their young men did die in large numbers (a tragedy so huge few alive now could even imagine it)... lest we ever forget.
And may we always work to not go to war as we remember......
It's hard to watch the clip of Barham rolling over and exploding, covered in men.. Lest we forget, indeed.
@@PhantomP63
Here's the film:
ruclips.net/video/YdrISbwy_zI/видео.html
@@PhantomP63 Word, that footage is just throw away in films about the war..... that is a lot of men dying... like era footage of Pearl Harbour.....we must always be aware of what we are seeing.
You may be interested in the World War Two channel, that discusses what happened week by week.
Especially their series of War Against Humanity is....
*Air raid siren on Enterprise goes off.*
Helmsman: "Deja-vu! I've just been in this place before."
Talking about the pros and cons of long barrels, I've noticed a lot of people give the Italians a hard time because of their guns' short barrel life, but I believe it's not as big a deal as it's made out to be.
Remember, the Italians were primarily concerned with controlling the Mediterranean sea, which is only about 2,400 miles from Gibraltar to Israel, with the Italian peninsula more or less in the center. This would make the logistics of replacing a barrel a lot easier than, say, the USN replacing one in the South Pacific which could be up to 10,000 miles distant from mainland America. The jump from California to Hawaii alone is as far as the entire length of the Mediterranean. So it would make sense that the US or the UK with their far-reaching territories would prioritize the barrel wear over the shell performance tradeoffs. The Italians went with the reverse because they could afford to deal with the logistical issues of barrel replacement.
You make some sense, but realize that the USN did bring a fleet train that set up in a large lagoon "behind the lines" (Noumea, Manus, Ulithi) with crane ships and floating drydocks to handle those sorts of things. Barrel wear was recorded for each gun and you could pretty much predict well in advance when you would need to drop back for a refit.
@@gregorywright4918 this is true. I'm not criticizing American logistical support in the Pacific, their supply lines were some of the best, I'm just saying the Italian's barrel wear problem isn't as big a deal as some make it out to be.
Old and busted: High speed drifting through a small town.
New hotness: High speed drifting with a small town.
MIB reference. I see you are a man of culture as well...
Ah. A fellow scholar!!
Makes you wonder how many red buttons are found on a Yorktown-class bridge, doesn't it?
It's nice to see officer Dakka has been joined by helmsman Ken Block
"Helmsman, Evasive Pattern Alpha!"
*CV-6 proceeds to write the greek letter "alpha" in wake foam off the coast of Santa Cruz*
Hats off to the crew of the E, that's some serious work
1:02:50 another person who was just as lucky as the others is Violet Jessop, who survived both the sinking of the Titanic and Britannic. She was also on Olympic when HMS Hawke collided with her.
There's one woman that the White Star Line and Liverpool must've absolutely hated....
Sounds to me like a time travelling Shipwreck Tourist got recorded inthe history books by accident
Truly a very dangerous woman to be around.
I don't think she was so lucky for those ships...
It's all a perspective.
That Enterprise footage was incredible, you can find it on youtube for those curious, giving us a rare look at a battle in the Pacific naval war.
I particularly love seeing the escorts darting about in the background whiling firing.
You can see the Smith burning in the background several times.
This channel has several clips:
ruclips.net/video/3i9DyEBtAHA/видео.html
I so love Sunday morning coffee and Drydock. The Enterprise clip was awesome! Thanks, Drach!
The Enterprise film is incredible.
the 16"/45 Mark 5/8 used by the Colorado and the 16"/45 Mark 6 used by the North Carolina and South Dakota were originally going to fire the same 2,240 lb AP Mark 5 at the same muzzle velocity, the decision to switch to the 2,700 lb AP Mark 8 was made very, very late into North Carolinas completion (so late that the computers had to be adjusted after they were already installed). In that sense, we know exactly what kind of performance the lighter shell has out of the more modern 16"/45 - its the exact same as the performance from the older gun firing the new shell. In that respect, we also can estimate the performance of the 16"/50 Mark 7 firing the 2,240 lb AP Mark 5 shell as well. Although the longer barreled Navy weapon was never directly considered for firing it, the Army was still using old 16"/50 Mark 2/3 guns as coastal defense weapons in this period (the same guns that had been repurposed from the cancelled 1920's battleships). These guns received the 2,240 lb AP Mark 12, which was actually the exact same shell in terms of ballistic qualities and construction as the 2,240 lb AP Mark 5 being used by the Colorado. The only difference was that, with the longer barrel, it was being fired at 2,650 feet per second (808 m/s) instead of 2,520 feet per second (768 m/s). A little bit of playing with your usual set of penetration calculators/tables should give you a good idea of the increased velocities effect.
We dont have to do that because we already have a basis for comparison with the 16"/45 Mark 5 on the Colaorados and the 16"/45 Mark 6 on the North Carolinas and South Dakotas.
Two downvotes 22mins after uploading an hour long episode... WTF is wrong with people?
I think patrons get the drydocks early, so maybe there's a couple people out there who are willing to shell out cash to be petty? But also just about every video gets dislikes no matter what it is, so I'm half convinced there's dislike bots or something running around.
@@sorrel7554 I have always thought of it this way why a dislike button if you don’t like it don’t watch it just my thoughts I know they need the like and dislike but I feel the dislike gets taken advantage of.
@Fluesterwitz The funny thing is, the algorithm doesn't care whether you vote up or down, it's both classified as engagement.
One of Techmoan's puppet sketches boils it down to "I'm downvoting because I don't like the topic, he shouldn't have made a video about it."
Clearly people who have a fear of cuddly rodents.
Thanks so much for showing the Enterprise's masterful helm control. It was fascinating to see the horizon tilt and the damage control parties struggling with the tilting deck.
The "lucky" E was super maneuverable.
She must have frustrated SO many Kate pilots.!
Funny you should mention that. One Kate apparently tried to do a torpedo run from the bow. Not only did Enterprise avoided it. But the Kate was shot down by the last remaining 1.1 inch gun on the ship.
Great video as always Drach.
I may be wrong on this but doesn't the Captain or his designee have the assignment of calling out course changes to the helmsman??
If so that makes his job of hurling a fleet carrier around like a speed boat even more amazing.
Whoever that guy was, his arms and hands must have been like a gorilla or something.
Lastly........that Gunner aboard HMS Invincible, one moment he's working his post the next he's in the water.
I can imagine thats one heck of a shock.
I'm sure he was more pissed then anything. If a German ship had been dumb enough to pass within swimming distance, he'd have given them a stern dressing down and maybe tried to board them.
Can the helmsman even see the sea? Often they were on a control centre not on the Bridge.
@@benwilson6145 he likely has a very limited view straight ahead. Especially if any armored covers are lowered over the windows. Not sure if the Enterprise had those.
I always imagined that in this scenario the captain would just tell the skipper ‘maneuver at will to avoid the bombs’
@@streetracer2321 the helmsman has to be given some kind of direction in order to avoid running over the escorts.
I'm sure he has extremely limited vision.
Officially the Officer of the Deck, but in battle that would often be the Captain (with the XO in CIC). Note that a number of those turns were to starboard - the island is on the starboard side, so they can see better on that side, to avoid other nearby ships maneuvering. The helmsman is located in the middle of the bridge, but follows the commands of the OOD. There is a picture of a Yorktown-class bridge around somewhere.
I think I can speak for everyone when I say thank you Drach.
1. Your voice is calming and the sense of humor is nice. The videos help me a lot with various things so thank you for that.
2. The amount of work you put into the channel is staggering. Thank you for your dedication to the craft and the continual production of quality videos.
I would like to think that a Combat Cameraman was directly involved in recording the footage from the "Enterprise" but I strongly suspect, due to lack of flinching or ducking ( a natural reaction related to "fight or flight") that the camera was mounted on a gyro stabilized gimble mount located on the island of the "Enterprise". I don't know when the U.S. Navy began recording flight deck operations but the camera seems, to me at least, to be far too stable to be under direct human control considering the circumstances. As for the helmsman.....I don't think that was his first day on the job. If he did not receive at least the Navy Cross for his masterful ship handing under extreme combat conditions the Navy should be ashamed of itself to this day.
There were cameras recording flight deck operations, especially landings. The stability of those films looks like it is mounted on something, but not stabilized because it follows the roll of the ship. There are a few points at which the camera is manually trained to the right and focused in, but the rest seems as though the camera was just left on the mount (maybe the PM was ducking?).
@@gregorywright4918 Thanks for the kind and informative response! When I looked at the footage again this morning, after reading your response, I was able to see everything you pointed out. Again thanks for the kind and informative response!
Umm... For that Japanese being given prefix IJN might not actually the same as KMS or DKM. Because Japanese way to designate ships with the pattern (Nation) (Class) (Name).
It would be something like this :
大日本帝国 戦艦 長門
Imperial Japan/Battleship/Nagato
英国 空母 アーク ロイヤル
United Kingdom/Fleet Carrier/Ark Royal
Yes, they don't write it that way everytime in every document but as far as my research goes into Japanese battleship guns (Which includes reading some really old Japanese document) it is used quite often when a ship is described for the first time. I might be wrong and that is new-old document (restored ones, and thank God those exist cause you wouldn't want to read Showa/Taisho Era hand written docs) ant they add that for ease of reference.
So ppl sticking IJN
I cannot praise you enough for the way the questions are organized within the video (with the times etc). The only possible improvement would be to somehow have all of them ever answered (all videos included) listed somewhere (an Excel sheet?) with links, so that, when someone asks a question that you had answered before in a different video, you can send him the link easily or he can easily find it himself. I assume RUclips does not offer a solution to that problem.
I can make a spreadsheet like that available, the main thing would be where to put it. :)
@@Drachinifel Your website Channel page?
Thank you. You posted this about 3 minutes ago and already 2 down votes- there are some people......words fail me.
the 2 down votes clearly came from japanese pilots at Santa Cruz
I absolutely believe there are a group of people who just go from video to video and down vote. They don't watch the video, they don't have any interest in the video subject, nor do they care about anything really. Professional down voters, if you will.
Well its still only 2
Always get a bit misty reading about USS Enterprise CV-6 going to the breakers. She deserved a far better fate to become a museum ship for future generations to appreciate her and her brave crewmembers.
20 Battle Stars, PUC, and the British Admiralty Pennant (1st foreign ship to be awarded the British Admiralty Pennant in the extensive history of the Royal Navy).
On October 3, 1936, USS Enterpise was christened with a quote from Shakespeare's Othello which would prove prophetic for the ship, "May she also say with just pride: I have done the State some service." Taken from USS Enterprise CV-6: The Most Decorated Ship of World War II, A Pictorial History, by Steve Ewing. USS Enterprise, we will always remember you and the actions of your crew.
Regarding the ship prefixes discussion, I agree with everything Drach said, but to also add that they are generally shorter and allow for folks new or less versed in naval history to quickly understand which nation a ship in reference belongs to. I personally know many people who would not immediately understand which nation HIJMS designates, but they will immediately know once I say IJN. Much of it is also just convenience rather than any intentional effort to slander a naming schema a particular nation prefers when self-referencing their own ships. Something that may be obvious to ones own nation might not be so obvious to foreigners, of which there are most likely more of in any single naval history discussion.
Great stuff again, Drach, well done. One comment: there were also prefixes that reflected the type of vessel - the officers and men of the Royal Naval Patrol Service would have scorned their larger vessels being addressed as anything other than HMT - His Majesty's Trawler.
23:10 ...best Drydock bit yet.
Drach! Given the little critters included this week I have to ask if you sometimes feel like a hamster on the wheel doing the Drydocks?😁
With the popularity of the channel and the number of questions we ask. If subject the hamster to the same level , the poor critter would catch fire and explode.
Good job Drach ( and his idea for a vacation is to do the museum version of a high speed pub crawl and do even more. ) don’t burn out.
I would argue that the most successful naval bombardment was during the Anglo-Zanzibar War in which the British had gathered three cruisers and two gunboats against the rebels holding up in a palace. The British naval guns opened up against the palace and the rebels immediately surrendered, effectively ending history's shortest war in just about 38 minutes.
Excellent, I didn’t think we’d get video of your fuzzy family so quickly after the livestream.
Nice story on the 'luckiest sailor' ... I might add the few survivors of the Tang sunk by its own torpedo....and the ~70 Bataan death march survivors sunk at sea after their ship was torpedoed and rescued by US subs after 7 days....just before a cyclone would have killed them all.... Those men had a grit and determination to live that was remarkable.
Re the US 16” guns. It should be noted that those guns and the initial designs of the ships which used them were based on the 2240lb AP round then in service. What the SH AP round gave you was a quite significant improvement in penetration with the same gun just through changing the shell. I have to think that BuOrd wasn’t entirely stupid and that they would have looked at the lighter projectile fired at higher velocity as an option. Certainly if they could have achieved equal or greater performance with the older AP rounds at higher velocities they would have gone this route.
WRT to Enterprise and her helmsman it should be noted that the guy at the wheel and the Lee Helmsman who controls the engine Telegraph is simply following orders from the OOD or in battle likely the Captain who has taken the Conn. The officer with the Conn (or conning officer) is the one who actually orders the helmsman and Lee helmsman what to do in terms of rudder placement and engine speed. He’s the one running from bridge wing to bridge wing identifying what the nearest threat is and issuing the orders for how to avoid it. That’s the guy that deserves the Pat on the back.
Captain Osborne B Harrison was Enterprise’s CO during the Battle of Santa Cruz. Interestingly enough, her former CO George Murray was in charge of TF17 (Hornet’s Group) as well.
Instead of verbal orders during this battle that was how the helmsman was being told which way to turn by the captain during this battle. Left sholder, right shoulder etc.
Conning officer issues the helm orders.
Helmsman must respond quickly & accurately.
He must not overextend the rudder steering gear into it's extreme stops which may cause jams or failure. And then where would you be?
The main issue with the superheavy was that it was intended for deck penetration, but deck penetrations required longer engagement ranges and thus hits were less likely. In the case of the 16”/50 the designed engagement range for the gun actually ended up significantly exceeding the effective range of the fire control (even with radar targeting), making it useless for its intended purpose of long-range deck hits even if battleships were still relevant at that point.
@@bkjeong4302 do you have a citation that verifies this? FYI the SH shell also had significantly greater belt penetration than the normal shell. I’ve never seen anything that says the point of the SH shell was solely to improve deck penetration.
I love having the drydock as part of my Sunday routine.
Helmsman footage explains the gun depression comments the enterprise AA officer put in his AAR.
That footage of the Enterprise was something else. Got me to go look at the archives on my own and found some really neat stuff like footage of a US prize crew taking control of Nagato, the set up for Operation Crossroads, footage from dive bombers, ect
Regarding the British bombardment of Copenhagen in 1807 (during the Second Napoleonic War), it is important to mention that Denmark and Norway were still a dual monarchy (historically since 1380) and that the main reason for the British heavy bombing of Copenhagen was to ensure that the common Danish-Norwegian fleet was completely destroyed. This would isolate Norway from Denmark and then militarily divide the countries and effectively prevent the union from becoming a local superpower in northern Europe again.
When the war formally ended in 1814 (the Peace of Fontainbleu), the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland naturally supported the decision to transfer Norway to Sweden as part of the peace settlement. Sweden was part of the coalition forces together with, among others, Prussia and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Norway's parliament adopted the new independent constitution (initiated by the Danish prince and governor of Norway, Christian Frederik) on 17 May 1814 (which is still Norway's national day) and thus the political lines for a Norwegian independence were laid (which came in 1905 when the union with Sweden was terminated).
Norway then elected the Danish prince Carl as the new king through a referendum (no less). As the new king of Norway, he adopted the name Haakon VII and his son Alexander (2 years old) was given the more Norwegian-sounding name Olav (later Olav V). The new queen of Norway was the English princess Maud who was one of the three daughters of Edward VII. In this way, the historical ties to Denmark were secured for Norway and at the same time new and important ties to Great Britain were established.
Pedants ruin all sorts of online discussions, ship prefixs are a great example of that.
The Enterprise footage I think is from Eastern Solomons
. The footage where the starboard aft 5" battery has smoke pouring out of it is consistent with damage at Eastern Solomons. Seen that snippet many, many times and it was id'ed as Eastern Solomons.
Correct. At Santa Cruz, Enterprise took two bomb hits forward of the superstructure.
Poon Lim should get an honourable mention.He was a steward on the BenLomond when it was torpedoed by a UBoat off Brazil and was on a Carey Float for 133 days until he was rescued by fisherman off Brazil. The sole survivor.
Luckiest survivor of a ship/s: OSKAR/UNSINKABLE SAM!
25:10 when you bring up drifting, all I can think is Running in the 90’s
In the case of e.g the danish navy I would guess that the english translation is closer to royal. The direct translation is more in the way of something like: "The kingly danish navy" kingly as in kingdom, which is gender neutral in this context. Icelandinc translation would be: "Konunglegi danski sjóherinn" ;-)
Ship Pefixes are a strange thing in it self, for example
Netherlands:
Koninklijke Marine (Royal Navy)
Zr.Ms. - Zijner Majesteits (His Majesty's),
Hr.Ms. - Harer Majesteits (Her Majesty's)
and NATO Prefix
HNlMS - His/Her Netherlands Majesty's Ship
Germany
Deutsche Marine (German Navy)
no native Prefix
FGS - Federal German Ship
Norway:
Sjøforsvaret (Sea Defence)
KNM - Kongelig Norske Marine (Royal Norwegian Navy)
and NATO Prefix
HNoMS - His/Her Norwegian Majesty's Ship
Kustvakt (Coast Watch)
KV - KystVakt (Coast Watch)
NoCGV - Norwegian Coast Guard Vessel
Danmark
Sjøvernet (Sea Defence)
KDM - Kongelige Danske Marine (Royal Danish Navy)
HDMS - Her / His Danish Majesty's Ship
Sweden
Svenska marinen (Swedish Navy)
HMS - Hans/Hennes majestäts skepp (His/Her Majesty's Ship)
HSwMS - His/Her Swedish Majesty's Ship
Kustbevakningen (Coast Protection)
KBV - Kustbevakningen
Finnland
Merivoimat/Marinen (Navy)
no native Prefix
FNS - Finnish Navy Ship
Iceland
Landhelgisgæsla Íslands (Coast Guard Iceland)
V/s - Varðskip (Watch/Guard Ship)
ICGV - Icelendic Coast Guard Vessel
@@thefriese8805
The swedish navy has other strange naming practices.
HMS as a prefix does not turn up until sometime during the 19th century, before that no prefixes seems to be the normal thing according to my source books. HSwMS is used only outside of Sweden to avoid confusion with HMS from _the_ Royal Navy.
Before sometime during the 18th century it was called just the navy or possibly the "navy of the crown". Then we have a split into the "naval navy" and the "army navy", the latter one then changes into the "archipelago navy". Reunites into the "navy of the royal majesty" in the 19th century and somewhat later into the "royal navy" (and for a while with a split into that and the "archipelago artillery" *) and now "swedish navy" unless there is ceremony to be had, where it is again the "royal navy" or even "royal swedish navy".
* The later unification (or perhaps not...) makes for even more complex naming, what's called the "swedish navy" (svenska flottan) is one of two parts of what also translates into the "navy" (marinen), the other being the "amfibious corps", that having replaced the "coastal artillery" when the latter went out of fashion around the turn of the century. The King is an admiral of the navy, general of the army, general of the air force, but _not_ a general of the amfibious corps...
Deja vu intensifies. But seriosly that turn rate is hilarious to look at.
So the fellow that was on the range finder and rode the turret up.... was he an attempted astronaut in the vein of the chinese attempts centuries ago?
Drach, I think you would enjoy the ships more if you split it up into a few trips. If you do them all at once all the ships will run together and I don't think you will be able to fully enjoy them being rushed. Also, being an American, I know the vast distances you will be traveling. London to Moscow round trip way is just a little further than New York to LA one way!
The footage of the Enterprise maneuvering under fire never ceases to amaze me. The lady could dance like no other.
Especially impressive when you consider that the ship was over 20,000 tons, some 800 feet long, and maneuvering at speeds that would get the helmsman a ticket on any city street.
While discussing the Mark 8 16" AP "Super Heavy" shell, we should keep in that we already have the basis for an apples to apples comparison with the 16" Mark 5 on the Colorados and Mark 6 on the North Carolinas and South Dakotas. The two guns have the same barrel length, chamber volume (near enough), and working pressure, and almost the same propellant charge (535 vs 545 lb of SPD, with the older gun using the larger charge)). The significant difference is in the shell, as the Mark 5 16"/45 did not have an ammunition handling system that could accept the 16" Mark 8 AP, although it did get a new Mark 5 AP shell weighing 2,240 lb in the late 30s.
The Mark 8 shell from the Mark 6 gun has a muzzle velocity of 2,300 fps from a new gun, compared to 2,520 fps for the Mark 5 shell from the Mark 5 gun. As a result, the the Mark 5 shell reaches out to 35,000 yards at 30 degrees (the limit of the turret) while the Mark 8 shell has to be fired at 35 degrees for almost the same distance (34,500 yards) and tops out at just under 37,000 yards. At practical ranges, out to about 25,000 yards, the Mark 8 shell has penetration that is equally to or better than the Mark 5 shell (USN empirical formula):
29.74" to 29.68" at the muzzle
26.6" to 26" at 5,000 yards
23.5" to 22.5" at 10,000 yards
20.47" to 19.22" at 15,000 yards
17.62" to 16.24" at 20,000 yards
15.05" to 13.74" at 25,000 yards
So it seems unlikely to me that the 16"/50 would display significantly better armor penetration just by using shell of similar construction but more conventional weight compared to the Mark 8 superheavy AP.
Thank you, Drachinifel.
Hi Drach. I most respectfully request that you add HMVS Cerberus to your endless-list-of-ships-that-will-eventually-get-a-5-minute-guide. She was a very powerful monitor and is quite famous in the Melbourne area as she was scuttled in shallow water where she remains today. In any case, keep up the good work.
Another great piece - thank you. As I'm usually busy making plastic models it's great to have these audio based videos to enjoy while my hands and eyes are busy. (Audio based video - does that make any sense by the way!)
... and ref HMS, RN submarines are officially "Her Majesties Submarine" - HMSm, but HMS is allowed by dint of longer term misuse. Submarines are Boats, not Ships. This was the response I got c. 20 years ago when I consulted the RN Historical Branch, official determiner of such things.
There are and have been other non-ship vessels in the RN, such as HMY (Her Majesties Yacht) Britannia and HMSML (Her Majesties Survey Motor Launch) Gleaner.
Of course, if you go way back, people like Nelson referred to themselves as being aboard His Britannic Majesties Ship . But we ain't going back to HBMS and if you started sticking that into accounts of Trafalgar much confusion would ensue.
HMS/M, HMT etc - were used as cap tallies in WW2, instead of the ship's name
Awesome footage of The Big E!
Really appreciate the reply, keep up the good work. KBO
Brilliant 👀❤️👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
That footage from Enterprise is just... WOW!!! 😲
Remember, the helmsman was being directed by the OOD and likely the Captain as to when and how much rudder (full left and right rudder during this movie!).
During the chaos of the battle the Captain was signaling where and when to turn by patting the helmsman on his left or right shoulders.
The helmsman is good, but don't discount the luck that protects fools, small children and ships named Enterprise.
I'm pretty sure he invaded most if not every single torpedo thrown at him had it been anyone else at the helm a lot of those torpedoes probably would have hit
Wasn't there a version of that quote that said "Drunks, fools, madmen and ships named Enterprise?"
The whipping is called barrel slap.
I used to design projectile and guns 90mm to 20".
Re: the 16" 45 vs 50: If you're on the pointy end of a 2700-pound AP shell, it's a Significant Emotional Event no matter how long the tube it came out of or how much armour you have. Even if it doesn't penetrate, it still ruins your day.
Also That Photo of the 16"/50s stopping the sea from doing its thing is great. Also you can tell they're ripple-firing them, the shockwave from the rear turret being bigger (and thus earlier) than the middle one, and the fore hasn't even started. I think it was a thing with the Iowa-class that they weren't supposed to fire a full all-at-once main battery broadside because it would probably break things?
i have just started to follow you and i am inlove with this chanel....in 2-3 weeks i wana see all the videos
Thanks for answering my question.
I wonder if Royal Marine Bryan Gasson, the sole survivor of Q-Turret, and only one of six who were alive following the awful destruction of HMS Invincible at the Battle of Jutland, ever had his hearing tested at some later date.
I mean, talk about getting one’s proverbial “bell rung!”
When the ship’s main magazine exploded virtually right under Mr. Gasson’s boots; at the very least, his poor ears must’ve been ringing like crazy while he was bobb’n around in the water waiting to be rescued.
Would Mers-el-Kebir count as a coastal bombardment? That was pretty effective.
I am 100% stealing that expression at the end to describe what the weather here in Manchester is to my family back home.
Loved the mice, loved big E doing donuts in the Pacific
Enterprise's Helmsman, channelling his inner Joerg Sprave, "Let me show you its features!"
I visiting at the Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane, Indiania when a 16" Mark 8 shell was being demilled in a bunker and went off. There were two people in bunker. One guy was literally sitting on top of the shell and he received only minor injuries. They never found the other guy.
Q&A: Most warships these days are built in ‘modules’ then welded/joined together. 1) was this building technique possible during The Washington Naval Treaty and WWII? 2) Would it be feasible to build a ship in modules and leave it that way to more quickly assemble and launch it in the event of war 3) Would that count against tonnage against the Washington Naval Treaty and would it instigate other nations to break the treaty?
Thanks! Love your channel, the videos keep me sane during the day.
Modular building was used in WW2 - eg., some ships were built in sections in Denver and carried by train to Mare Island for assembly (the dimensions and weights were carefully proscribed). It was used somewhat inter-war, but mostly "sections" being built in shops at the builders yards and craned on-board. Your idea of #2 would take a LOT of storage space on or near a yard, and you would have to deal with preservation from rust and weather effects. It would be hard to hide, so the WNT or LNT would be able to count it. Then there is the time to put it together, test it out and crew it. The Japanese solution was simpler - build a ship to one stated goal, then shortly before you start a war, rebuild it or rearm it to a more desired one (Mogami, Zuiho, Hiyo, etc).
I find it absolutely insane that one of the sailors on Invincible somehow survived being in the middle of a massive cordite explosion in the SAME turret all be it in a different compartment that caused said explosion. I'd be buying a lottery ticket after surviving something like that.
I wouldn't he had already used up all his luck.
Bravo for, at very least, the Enterprise footage (23:10). Riveting.
The helmsman of enterprise was absolutely crazy. Steering a bloody full size fleet carrier like it's a little fast boat... Legend
With regard to the pros and cons of high velocity naval guns, will you do a video on the construction of large naval guns similar to the video you did on the development of boilers and armour
Excellent as always. Geoff Who is curious.
For most effective bombardment what about bombardment of zanzibar, was over in half an hour?
Which reminds me; a video on the engineering of guns and mounts would be very interesting. I imagine this idea may already be on your list so consider this me registering my interest.
The most successful bombardment would have to be the bombardment of Zanzibar in 1896, which ended the Anglo-Zanzibar War after 38 minutes of bombardment of the Sultan's palace.
Then the Sultan of Zanzibar paid for the cost of the shells.
The real hero is Mrs. Drach, I know most wives wouldn't put up with their husband spending that much time on their RUclips channel
I thought the channel decided she kept her maiden name, Mine.
Well don't forget he gets some money from the work he does. So its not like it's a waste of time.
I wonder if his recordings let him purge most of the ship talk out of his system so he can talk about other things the rest of the time.
@@Stardude78 Unusually, she had a middle name prior to marriage - “Magnetic”
I guess maybe this is where she gets her video gaming time? Props to all
Given that helmsman are usually quartermasters, and looking at the ships roster, the helmsmen could only be one of maybe a dozen people. We could probably whittle it down a little further if we make the assumption that at general quarters, one of the senior quartermasters takes the helm, maybe a chief quartermaster or 1st class. Also interesting is a large number of the senior quarter masters were aboard enterprise from before the war till 1944. These guys would definitely have the experience in how to handle the ship to turn her around like that.
Also need to commend the officer of the deck who was issuing the helm orders as well. Remember, as good as the helmsman is, he’s taking his orders from the OOD, that man is the guy coordinating the whole show.
Your danish pronunciation was very good. The danish word "kongelige" means royal so the prefix KDM would translate as Royal Danish Navy.