Thank you so much for this. I never realised just how complex and tightly integrated this music is. Your insights are truly wonderful. Lovely performance, too.
Couldn’t Theme 2 in the 1st movement be called a “Transition Theme” as it is in the wrong key? And the Closing Theme be called “Theme 2”, as it is in the right key? In Brahms 4th analysis video, the German Tango of the first movement is a similar brief theme in the ‘wrong key’, yet you call this to be part of the Modulating Bridge, and the theme in the correct key (b major) isn’t a ‘closing theme’ as in this symphony, but you label it as Theme 2. Could you shed some light on how you determine what the main two themes are? And what are transitional/closing themes? From the outside it seems a bit arbitrary. Otherwise thanks for the great videos
Sure, good question. First, the source material I used to identify the themes comes from "Brahms: The 4 Symphonies" by Walter Frisch and "The Great Courses: Concert Masterworks, Dvorak's Symphony 9" by Dr Robert Greenberg (just so you know my labeling is not arbitrary). The definition of a "theme" doesn't depend on what key its in, it's the fact that there is harmonic stability (no matter what the key) as opposed to modulatory transitional music. Yes, the second theme is supposed to be in G Major according to the strict rules of Sonata Form Classicism, but many composers in the 19th century blurred these rules to fit their expressive needs. The Theme labeled as Theme 2 is in G minor and is a vocally conceived melodic entity that remains firmly in G minor long enough to be considered thematic as opposed to transitional music. Likewise, the Closing Theme in G Major is harmonically stable and closes the Exposition, thus it's designation as a Closing Theme. To label something as a Transitional Theme would be a non sequitur as it would imply a harmonically stable melody which isn't harmonically stable. Hope that helps. You can refer to the source material for a more in depth explanation.
Thank you so much for this. I never realised just how complex and tightly integrated this music is. Your insights are truly wonderful.
Lovely performance, too.
Great Analysis for a great Symphony!! Thank you!!
merci !!
8:34 Space Madness
Amazing analysis, how can i contact you ?
m-rogers@earthlink.net
4th movement 31:07😇
31:24 Stimpy's Invention
Couldn’t Theme 2 in the 1st movement be called a “Transition Theme” as it is in the wrong key? And the Closing Theme be called “Theme 2”, as it is in the right key?
In Brahms 4th analysis video, the German Tango of the first movement is a similar brief theme in the ‘wrong key’, yet you call this to be part of the Modulating Bridge, and the theme in the correct key (b major) isn’t a ‘closing theme’ as in this symphony, but you label it as Theme 2.
Could you shed some light on how you determine what the main two themes are? And what are transitional/closing themes? From the outside it seems a bit arbitrary.
Otherwise thanks for the great videos
Sure, good question. First, the source material I used to identify the themes comes from "Brahms: The 4 Symphonies" by Walter Frisch and "The Great Courses: Concert Masterworks, Dvorak's Symphony 9" by Dr Robert Greenberg (just so you know my labeling is not arbitrary).
The definition of a "theme" doesn't depend on what key its in, it's the fact that there is harmonic stability (no matter what the key) as opposed to modulatory transitional music. Yes, the second theme is supposed to be in G Major according to the strict rules of Sonata Form Classicism, but many composers in the 19th century blurred these rules to fit their expressive needs. The Theme labeled as Theme 2 is in G minor and is a vocally conceived melodic entity that remains firmly in G minor long enough to be considered thematic as opposed to transitional music. Likewise, the Closing Theme in G Major is harmonically stable and closes the Exposition, thus it's designation as a Closing Theme. To label something as a Transitional Theme would be a non sequitur as it would imply a harmonically stable melody which isn't harmonically stable.
Hope that helps. You can refer to the source material for a more in depth explanation.
Wow…