The green stats aren’t the base stats. Google evony tkr t14 base stats and the evony guide wiki page has the actual base stats. Assuming max debuffs, any flat above 10% of the base stat listed on that page is theoretically as good as a 20% refine when attacking. However, not everyone will fully debuff every stat. Love these videos because I am also a math minded guy and delve into the numbers and mechanics of the game instead of just following the standard range beats cav, cav beats ground, ground beats range rules and scratching my head when something doesn’t turn out quite right
T1 ground hp base is 600, so the max flat refine of 2924 actually equates to 487%ish. I made a spreadsheet back in 2021 that contains all of the base numbers from a freshly created account with no tech etc if youd like me to send it over? Was me trying to figure out if building large amounts of t1 were viable. Troop buff en-masse calculator essentially. Takes each tier total troop amount and the flat or refine buff, adds them together to get the base + buff number of each tier, then adds each tiers base +buff together to get a total block hp number.
Love the content, and appreciate the academic approach to gameplay. Having played with several braindead megacoiners in my old server, it's refreshing to see someone think about the game like I used to. From one doctor to another, though, I think it's mostly irrelevant to the flow of the game, and one of the main reasons I personally quit. I kinda liken it to all the useless electrolyte calculations you learn on a nephro rotation in med school. Sound great on paper and you feel really smart once you master them, but overall practically useless. The game is governed by a very clear Pareto distribution with a few massive coiners in each server dictating overall game play. It doesn't matter if they know how to play or not. A 4,000,000, 2000%+ ground march can clear the majority of keeps in the game. Majority of people stay bubbled during SVS and most people ghost and run during battlefield because of the disproportionate power of the few coiners on top. T1 traps are the one exception and kudos to the person who actually thought about the mechanics of the game to create that model. But I don't really see the fun in playing as a T1 trap. If you coin hard and can memorize the sequence siege-->archer-->cav--->ground you're gonna do well. I'd say the people who will find the most value in your video are people who exclude big coiners from their alliances and get matched with other medium-sized alliances in battlefield.
One of the most cynical comments i’ve ever read, and disappointing you feel that way. I’ll just say I simply dont agree. I dont think top 10 all stars are the biggest coiners. KS certainly wasnt the biggest one on C2. The real “art” in the game comes to choosing generals, buffs, and defensive build. Havent really engaged these yet, except for buffs…
@@JWevony I agree with what you say pre-k40 era. After that, the gap between coiners and non-coiners became too large and the events outside All-Stars became boring because of the power differential. Big coining isn't enough to be the best All Star, but it is required to be an All Star. KS was a big coiner who was also the best player . He definitely understood the mechanics of the game before everyone else. He was too generous with his knowledge, though, lol and imo basically dumbed down the game down to big coining and siege->range->cav->ground. I'm definitely not faulting him. He was clearly a generous guy who just loved playing the game, and it sucks the Hot cheaters and evony pushed him out. I just don't see much thought behind anything in evony these days. VIP18+ then Leo/Marshall on the wall...cav HP, siege attack, range debuff. Every decent keep is built the same way. Every new general is better than the last. If you're coining, buy Douglas; otherwise stick with your Elektra. Ludwig for ground until the new meta is released. You get hit by a HOT rally or old RSP rally you're going down in 1 or 2 hits unless you have a massively coined keep. I was a huge coiner myself, so I shouldn't complain, but just calling it how I see it. Anyway, again, I appreciate your analyses, and I'll still be listening either way.
But is it that simple? If you’re watching these vids-its NOT that simple…you have to actually understand what you’re doing and why. Additionally there are nuances i do keep to myself outta these vids. Theyre few and far between, but i always leave the base knowledge needed to get there in these vids. The biggest thrill for me since starting this channel is when people reach out to me and ask if I think such and so is a good idea-and its exactly what I use!
100% this is a game for people to pay to win then post videos explaining how they do it, thinking it's skill or smarts.... obviously not the case when you don't understand the game and still dominate, case and point is JW
Hey Wick, sanity check my math on the other comment. according the this example, debuffs are are huge impact to outcome!!! I should run math on a full archer flats attack comparison to percent, accounting for an enemy debuffing.
I would love to give my viewers the tools to come up with their own builds! There are so many different ones. I will say i think the right way to build is starting as a trap keep and building up from there
There's an inaccuracy in the % vs flats calculations. In the rally point, if the number is green, it has your native research/treasure % buffs applied. Do a google search to find the 'Evony troop base stats' and have a look. % Buffs apply to them, and not the green values in the rally point screen. Youll see that flats are even more powerful than you say they are...
using Wick's report as a baseline for T14 Ground HP but using the true T14 ground HP baseline = 20,440 HP fight where opponent has weak debuffs: Wick ground HP=1441% and opponent ground HP Debuff -329% after debuff wick ground HP 1112% >> 227,292 HP for T14 ground perfect refinement of 1 civ gear, repeating above battle add 1 30% ground HP refinement the 1441 goes to 1471% after the debuff, wick ground HP 1142% >> 233,424 HP (gain of 6,132HP) add 1 flat 2,924 after debuff wick ground HP 1112% +2924 flat >> 230,216 HP (gain of 2,294HP) ** percents win on this example, T14 is 1.4% stronger fight where opponent has strong debuffs: Wick ground HP=1441% and opponent ground HP Debuff -750% (reaches debuff limit) after debuff, wick ground HP 721% >> 147,372 HP for T14 ground perfect refinement of 1 civ gear, repeating above battle add 1 30% ground HP refinement the 1441 goes to 1471% after the debuff, wick ground HP 736% >> 150,438 HP (gain of 3,066 HP) add 1 flat 2,924 after debuff wick ground HP 721% +2924 flat >> 150,296 HP (gain of 2,924HP) ** essentially the same outcome. but your T1-T13 are substantially stronger with the flats
To make them most effective-absolutely. I was once build like that at under 10 bill power. Used to tank ranged rallies. I did flat ground hp and 4/8 flat ground defense. I used ranged attack to protect against the mount rally.
Great. I took a cav solo and won this last svs, but I lost in points because they took out my ground. I figured building a t1 ground wall will solve that little problem. Tell me, Wick..why can't I find you to friend you? I see you're with Hulk in the as preliminaries but when I type in your name I get no results.
This is an alien language to me. I love playing evony but hate all the technical and mathematical stuff. Could you pleease just tell me simply... If I'm refining general gear; is flat or percentages better for attack? And would defense be the same? HP? I just want to know what is best to keep when I'm refining. Ps. I heard high level troops benefit from one type and low level from another? If you take the time to simplify this for me I would be forever grateful.
ASSUMING you are attacking someone who can maximally debuff you (50%), then FLATS are better for all troops t13 and below. T14 is close depending on troop, and percentages better for t15/16 for all types. The most important traits for each troop type: ground-hp, defense; mount-all 3; ranged: attack; siege-attack. For wall general, if you use a “meat layer” of mounted t1’s for defense, you NEED at least 6 flat mount hp refines if not all 8 for the meat layer to be able to hold/work. Works even better if you do same with mount defense.
So if you are flat for something like mounted HP, are you ghosting your high tier cavs? Or have you figured out a build that is able to keep those T12-T15 horses alive? From your previous video where you talked about being cav and seige heavy for defense, it sounded like you had.
No-not if you’re being debuffed maximally. A 30pct buff is really 15pct. And my numbers are wrong-please see the other comment. The only troop you dont come out ahead with are t15’s
What’s your discord - I do have a question about you logic on flats for your defense at 30b - I’m 20b now using traditional Leo marshall considering going Boudica with the Japanese red horn gen. Another thing I wanted to mention now is debuff skill books now and how they may change the game or alter slightly for defense plus most general pairing only need 5 real books that apply to that march so each person could add one book to debuff up to 15 percent on the red version any skill/trait variation they choose or do it together as a team
I have a question. Maybe you answered it but I'm to dense to get it. Is it ideal to do mounted flat refines across the board or should it be divided between the troop types? If so, what is the spread to look for? Really appreciate your videos. Learning alot.
For the WALL GENERAL i assume you’re talking about-IF you use a t1 meat layer-you need minimum 6 flat mount hp refines for it to work. Same for defense-more the better and more effective it will be to work
Don't listen to this guy he's just regurgitating what other people say without doing any testing. Easy to see because it's all wrong just like 95% of the Evony community. Basic math 😂
Lol. I’m actually really hoping YOU dont listen to me…and I can prove it when we meet on bf 😂😂😂 sounds like a C1/2 player 👆🏻. Why are you all so salty?? Is that what the inevitable outcome is if you play too long??
@@JWevony C5, and give me a break, you pay for wins. You don't even know the basics of buffs and you're an "all star" that just proves it has nothing to do with skill or knowledge.
@@JWevony % and flats are based off initial troop stats. For dragon refines for example, the flats are about 50% of a % refine for t12. For troops like siege and archers we use lots of t11 and t12, so if you fight big spenders it's better to use flats since a flat refine is equal to about 11% for t11 and not 15% cut ½....for defense we use flats because % is only better for T14+ if debuffs are ½ of your buff, flats are better for troops t12 and lower, but again, depending on the difficulty of the debuff, some exceptions are considered. Want to get into specific numbers instead of generalities? Or have you figured out the math by now?
Welp, if you watched my second vid on gens you would see that i did point this out-and it made the drastic differences BIGGER i pointed out in the vid prior. But see, this is what I mean, you want to point at something i was wrong about, POINTED OUT i was wrong about, and ignored the fact that it didnt change my hypothesis. But hey man, dont like my stuff, we’re still cool. 🤟🏻 but if you have better info and want to share it, I’ll be the first to sub to your channel!
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
The green stats aren’t the base stats. Google evony tkr t14 base stats and the evony guide wiki page has the actual base stats. Assuming max debuffs, any flat above 10% of the base stat listed on that page is theoretically as good as a 20% refine when attacking. However, not everyone will fully debuff every stat. Love these videos because I am also a math minded guy and delve into the numbers and mechanics of the game instead of just following the standard range beats cav, cav beats ground, ground beats range rules and scratching my head when something doesn’t turn out quite right
Love this! Yes, you’re absolutely right-and will either rerecord or do a “correction” video asap
I finally get it. Thank you. This game is an uphill battle for a mathtard but with guys like you and Derrick there is hope.
Great info. Thanks again
Love your content
T1 ground hp base is 600, so the max flat refine of 2924 actually equates to 487%ish.
I made a spreadsheet back in 2021 that contains all of the base numbers from a freshly created account with no tech etc if youd like me to send it over?
Was me trying to figure out if building large amounts of t1 were viable.
Troop buff en-masse calculator essentially.
Takes each tier total troop amount and the flat or refine buff, adds them together to get the base + buff number of each tier, then adds each tiers base +buff together to get a total block hp number.
Thats incredible. Have used a few-have access to few. If its a google sheets and you want to share it with the masses-feel free to post a link
Folks would need to save a copy before editing.
Love the content, and appreciate the academic approach to gameplay. Having played with several braindead megacoiners in my old server, it's refreshing to see someone think about the game like I used to. From one doctor to another, though, I think it's mostly irrelevant to the flow of the game, and one of the main reasons I personally quit. I kinda liken it to all the useless electrolyte calculations you learn on a nephro rotation in med school. Sound great on paper and you feel really smart once you master them, but overall practically useless. The game is governed by a very clear Pareto distribution with a few massive coiners in each server dictating overall game play. It doesn't matter if they know how to play or not. A 4,000,000, 2000%+ ground march can clear the majority of keeps in the game. Majority of people stay bubbled during SVS and most people ghost and run during battlefield because of the disproportionate power of the few coiners on top. T1 traps are the one exception and kudos to the person who actually thought about the mechanics of the game to create that model. But I don't really see the fun in playing as a T1 trap. If you coin hard and can memorize the sequence siege-->archer-->cav--->ground you're gonna do well. I'd say the people who will find the most value in your video are people who exclude big coiners from their alliances and get matched with other medium-sized alliances in battlefield.
One of the most cynical comments i’ve ever read, and disappointing you feel that way. I’ll just say I simply dont agree. I dont think top 10 all stars are the biggest coiners. KS certainly wasnt the biggest one on C2.
The real “art” in the game comes to choosing generals, buffs, and defensive build. Havent really engaged these yet, except for buffs…
Lastly-if you’re watching my videos you didnt “quit”…
@@JWevony I agree with what you say pre-k40 era. After that, the gap between coiners and non-coiners became too large and the events outside All-Stars became boring because of the power differential. Big coining isn't enough to be the best All Star, but it is required to be an All Star. KS was a big coiner who was also the best player . He definitely understood the mechanics of the game before everyone else. He was too generous with his knowledge, though, lol and imo basically dumbed down the game down to big coining and siege->range->cav->ground. I'm definitely not faulting him. He was clearly a generous guy who just loved playing the game, and it sucks the Hot cheaters and evony pushed him out. I just don't see much thought behind anything in evony these days. VIP18+ then Leo/Marshall on the wall...cav HP, siege attack, range debuff. Every decent keep is built the same way. Every new general is better than the last. If you're coining, buy Douglas; otherwise stick with your Elektra. Ludwig for ground until the new meta is released. You get hit by a HOT rally or old RSP rally you're going down in 1 or 2 hits unless you have a massively coined keep. I was a huge coiner myself, so I shouldn't complain, but just calling it how I see it. Anyway, again, I appreciate your analyses, and I'll still be listening either way.
But is it that simple? If you’re watching these vids-its NOT that simple…you have to actually understand what you’re doing and why. Additionally there are nuances i do keep to myself outta these vids. Theyre few and far between, but i always leave the base knowledge needed to get there in these vids. The biggest thrill for me since starting this channel is when people reach out to me and ask if I think such and so is a good idea-and its exactly what I use!
100% this is a game for people to pay to win then post videos explaining how they do it, thinking it's skill or smarts.... obviously not the case when you don't understand the game and still dominate, case and point is JW
Hey Wick, sanity check my math on the other comment.
according the this example, debuffs are are huge impact to outcome!!!
I should run math on a full archer flats attack comparison to percent, accounting for an enemy debuffing.
How about sharing your thoughts on defense what is needed in troops etc
I would love to give my viewers the tools to come up with their own builds! There are so many different ones. I will say i think the right way to build is starting as a trap keep and building up from there
There's an inaccuracy in the % vs flats calculations.
In the rally point, if the number is green, it has your native research/treasure % buffs applied.
Do a google search to find the 'Evony troop base stats' and have a look. % Buffs apply to them, and not the green values in the rally point screen.
Youll see that flats are even more powerful than you say they are...
You’re absolutely right! Great point-and will be looking to either re-record or put up a correction vid asap
using Wick's report as a baseline for T14 Ground HP
but using the true T14 ground HP baseline = 20,440 HP
fight where opponent has weak debuffs:
Wick ground HP=1441% and opponent ground HP Debuff -329%
after debuff wick ground HP 1112% >> 227,292 HP for T14 ground
perfect refinement of 1 civ gear, repeating above battle
add 1 30% ground HP refinement the 1441 goes to 1471%
after the debuff, wick ground HP 1142% >> 233,424 HP (gain of 6,132HP)
add 1 flat 2,924
after debuff wick ground HP 1112% +2924 flat >> 230,216 HP (gain of 2,294HP)
** percents win on this example, T14 is 1.4% stronger
fight where opponent has strong debuffs:
Wick ground HP=1441% and opponent ground HP Debuff -750% (reaches debuff limit)
after debuff, wick ground HP 721% >> 147,372 HP for T14 ground
perfect refinement of 1 civ gear, repeating above battle
add 1 30% ground HP refinement the 1441 goes to 1471%
after the debuff, wick ground HP 736% >> 150,438 HP (gain of 3,066 HP)
add 1 flat 2,924
after debuff wick ground HP 721% +2924 flat >> 150,296 HP (gain of 2,924HP)
** essentially the same outcome.
but your T1-T13 are substantially stronger with the flats
So if I mass produce t1 ground should I do flat ground refines, too? Like I did with my mounted?
To make them most effective-absolutely. I was once build like that at under 10 bill power. Used to tank ranged rallies. I did flat ground hp and 4/8 flat ground defense. I used ranged attack to protect against the mount rally.
Great. I took a cav solo and won this last svs, but I lost in points because they took out my ground. I figured building a t1 ground wall will solve that little problem. Tell me, Wick..why can't I find you to friend you? I see you're with Hulk in the as preliminaries but when I type in your name I get no results.
It would help the t1 meat layer perform better
This is an alien language to me. I love playing evony but hate all the technical and mathematical stuff. Could you pleease just tell me simply... If I'm refining general gear; is flat or percentages better for attack? And would defense be the same? HP? I just want to know what is best to keep when I'm refining. Ps. I heard high level troops benefit from one type and low level from another? If you take the time to simplify this for me I would be forever grateful.
ASSUMING you are attacking someone who can maximally debuff you (50%), then FLATS are better for all troops t13 and below. T14 is close depending on troop, and percentages better for t15/16 for all types. The most important traits for each troop type: ground-hp, defense; mount-all 3; ranged: attack; siege-attack.
For wall general, if you use a “meat layer” of mounted t1’s for defense, you NEED at least 6 flat mount hp refines if not all 8 for the meat layer to be able to hold/work. Works even better if you do same with mount defense.
So if you are flat for something like mounted HP, are you ghosting your high tier cavs? Or have you figured out a build that is able to keep those T12-T15 horses alive? From your previous video where you talked about being cav and seige heavy for defense, it sounded like you had.
Dont ghost higher tier mount, for reasons above
What server do you play on
891
Doesn’t this leave your high troops susceptible to die easier
If your using all flat refines
No-not if you’re being debuffed maximally. A 30pct buff is really 15pct. And my numbers are wrong-please see the other comment. The only troop you dont come out ahead with are t15’s
What’s your discord - I do have a question about you logic on flats for your defense at 30b - I’m 20b now using traditional Leo marshall considering going Boudica with the Japanese red horn gen.
Another thing I wanted to mention now is debuff skill books now and how they may change the game or alter slightly for defense plus most general pairing only need 5 real books that apply to that march so each person could add one book to debuff up to 15 percent on the red version any skill/trait variation they choose or do it together as a team
john7wick#1534
I have a question.
Maybe you answered it but I'm to dense to get it.
Is it ideal to do mounted flat refines across the board or should it be divided between the troop types?
If so, what is the spread to look for?
Really appreciate your videos. Learning alot.
For the WALL GENERAL i assume you’re talking about-IF you use a t1 meat layer-you need minimum 6 flat mount hp refines for it to work. Same for defense-more the better and more effective it will be to work
@@JWevony huge thank you. Appreciate it! And yes wall general.
Don't listen to this guy he's just regurgitating what other people say without doing any testing. Easy to see because it's all wrong just like 95% of the Evony community. Basic math 😂
Lol. I’m actually really hoping YOU dont listen to me…and I can prove it when we meet on bf 😂😂😂 sounds like a C1/2 player 👆🏻. Why are you all so salty?? Is that what the inevitable outcome is if you play too long??
@@JWevony C5, and give me a break, you pay for wins. You don't even know the basics of buffs and you're an "all star" that just proves it has nothing to do with skill or knowledge.
😂 so please correct me where i’m wrong? I’d love to hear what you have to share with me.
@@JWevony % and flats are based off initial troop stats. For dragon refines for example, the flats are about 50% of a % refine for t12. For troops like siege and archers we use lots of t11 and t12, so if you fight big spenders it's better to use flats since a flat refine is equal to about 11% for t11 and not 15% cut ½....for defense we use flats because % is only better for T14+ if debuffs are ½ of your buff, flats are better for troops t12 and lower, but again, depending on the difficulty of the debuff, some exceptions are considered. Want to get into specific numbers instead of generalities? Or have you figured out the math by now?
Welp, if you watched my second vid on gens you would see that i did point this out-and it made the drastic differences BIGGER i pointed out in the vid prior. But see, this is what I mean, you want to point at something i was wrong about, POINTED OUT i was wrong about, and ignored the fact that it didnt change my hypothesis. But hey man, dont like my stuff, we’re still cool. 🤟🏻 but if you have better info and want to share it, I’ll be the first to sub to your channel!