I am a 3d printing pro. You didnt mention much by way of materials or printer settings, and, as Ive been watching this channel for years and this is the first 3d.printer mention, Im assuming that you recently got a Bambu labs printer. If you happened to get the X1 or a version of the P1S that is enclosed, you can print with ASA or even PA-CF these are going to be far stronger that PLA and PETG, and hold up to the elements and general use better. Also note thatyou want to consider print orentation. Looks like you might have it right, but for the carabiner frame, you would want to print that flat on its side, not standing up on any end. This gives layer lines max surface area to adhere too and it keeps the layer lines from being parallel with the stresses on it.
carbon fiber nylon/carbon fiber pla @ 90% infill, .18-.2mm layer height. should give you more consistency in breaking strength, then scale/increase the carabiners size up until it reaches the weight range your looking for.
500 I think. I don’t think we would sell them though, it seems a little sketchy, someone might not use their brain and then blame me. Joe Boyd says breakaway carabiners should be a “choose your own adventure type of thing“. Lol.
It looks like mbainrot beat me to it lol. It broke exactly where I expected it to. Print some that are just ovals without the thread. The thread is a weak point. I'm a toolmaker and we design and build plastic injection molds. We eliminate sharp corners on both plastic and steel with radii because they are weak points. You can add an hourglass shape in the middle of major axis on both sides and adjust the diameter of the thin portion to adjust the break weight. You're a smart guy August, I had considered a loop of 550 cord but this is much cooler. Way to think outside the box. Edited to add you can also print rings different thicknesses similar to bridge rings. The thicker rings should hold more weight and the thinner less. Rings would take up less space too.
Great idea. Suggestion. You may gain some strength if you use a different thread. Maybe an acme thread? Something that doesn’t have a sharp corner which becomes the weakest part. Just a thought.
I've had 3d printed functional parts that were a few years old snap from internal tension just sitting there on the shelf, 100% infill petg abs might be a little better. wouldn't bother with anything 3d printed for anything structural or with a dynamic load unless it's 3d printed metal
What material & infill settings? might be able to inch a little closer if you run it a bit hotter (for better layer fusing at the trade off of print quality) and maybe use PETG instead of PLA. I am surprised no one sells rated fusable links
He definitely looked light on the infill and it broke like PLA. I think you’d want the quick fracture of PLA vs the slow bending of PETG for this purpose. He could also expand the model in all 3 directions to get a little more strength. Maybe 100% infill and a 15-20% size increase?
@@gschgvt2956 maybe, in another comment of mine i reckon he'd also do well to get rid of the hinge and threads, threads are corners and corners are stress risers. But defo agree the sudden brittle failure may be beneficial in a "tree failure" shituation
How about a strong carabiner that has a fuse plug. Then you can engineer the plug, and make it reset-able. You'll need a hinge, or two, easy enough to build when they don't have to be stronger than the fuse plug. It is a niche component, but crucial given the circumstances.
I’m so excited that you’re developing this August! I REALLY would like a carabiner that I can trust to break away, when the situation calls for it. Those gas station carabiners are too weak. I’ll be waiting! Thanks for sharing!
August, plastics are a different beast. The rate at which you apply the load will make a difference in the load that they break at. Fast loads make them break at lower strength. Slower loads make them break at higher loads. Any sharp corners will also greatly affect the results ( bottom of the threads etc). Not sure how consistent you will get with a printer. If there is a market, you would be better to injection mold them.
Would you say that the force on the climber would be double the strength of the carabiner because the lanyard is attached at two points plus the friction around the tree? How much can a human withstand?
Seeing all the empty space in that and the inconsistency of the weight and structure I'd say no! But in my absolute opinion 3d printing is only good for decoration!
carbon fiber should get you up there. August you are always coming up with products to make the industry better. just wish I was still in the industry.
While I understand what you are doing and why you are doing it can I maybe suggest using something a bit lower tech? Why don’t you stitch a figure 8 out of a piece of webbing and use the thread as the breakaway like they do in fall arrest shock absorbing lanyards? When loaded enough to pop the stitches it would just come apart and release the lanyard…
I use a piece of rated paracord loop. Then you can cut free with handsaw or knife if needed as well. It’s light weight to keep on saddle and $1 of kit to add to existing lanyards. Not very sellable. A piece of webbing with breaking stitches seems much more repeatable in break tests, and a product that’s sellable
@@thesickhorseranch Part of my point, while not trying to trim Augusts created device and obviously hitches/knots will restrict speedy movement / adjustment verses mechanical devices with weak links, but my idea was something manufactured to a consistent standard might be a good idea. Ryan at HowKnot2 tested a 4mm prusik and on his pull machine achieved 3.74Kn = 840 lbs breaking force, which seems very close to what August was possibly looking for, along with other hitches / knots. Test Results > 4MM PARACORD: *Prusik 3.74kN *Klemheist 3.34kN *Auto Block 3 wraps - slips at 1.34kN, 4 wraps - slips at 5.32kn *Paracord doubled twice 8.90kN *Paracord in a loop 4.06kN. From a June 16th video.
@@macman231 I recall that but someone pointed out that 840 lbs you're mentioning might be double because we're on a flip line doubled around the tree. IDK, I'm liking some of the slipknot ideas where you would be able to manually bail.
@@thesickhorseranch Yep, I agree with your concern, and obviously its very important to August to try and determine how to better keep him and his crew more safe and even more apparent since he's broadcasting his thoughts and designs to the world. I cave by hobby, so I'm always concerned about equipment strength in adverse conditions. The case where you always want "enough" strength, but not "too much" strength is a tough one. Keep in mind forces really happen quick so something at a little higher rating might be just right. Example, again Ryan HowKnot2 rappelling with caving gear he hit 0.94Kn=211lbs. so that's just coming to a stop, and when using a frog ascending method that puts some bounce strain into the rope he hit 1.61Kn=362lbs, so it really doesn't take much to move up in force and I wouldn't want my flip line connection to detach at 360 or even 400lbs as you could easily achieve that just by launching yourself backwards fairly hard, so 800 might actually not be that bad of a starting point. I think he did another vid where he was just connected to a wall and pushing backwards to see what force he could generate by muscle, I'll try and find that next.
@@macman231 I'm tracking. While I've never climbed a tree half as dangerous as some I've seen on Augusts channel I have been way up high in the berries and I totally get what August has said in the past about sneaking up the tree. Moving slowly to avoid imparting any shock anywhere. Some of these sticks bust in the air on the way down just from the new momentum they're experiencing. The safe side of this particular equation is to bail earlier under less strain. The idea being if the tree starts to collapse or buckle you're on your way out, swinging on your lifeline from a safe tie in point. Or I suppose the shitty alternate idea is that when the tree buckles and you're still in it the carabiner will break away before your body see too much force. I obviously dig the slipknot idea where I essentially have a ripcord to pull and I'm free.
Following the #MB productline/ Store grow & grow and taking it to new heights with items you guys are working to create of your own is impressive to watch. Well worth it to help contribute to your industry & smart cuz it will be around way longer than you will be swinging up in the trees. 😊Even a #MB will have to come down one day. NOT ANYTIME SOON ..BUT ONE DAY.
Maybe instead of a Carabiner you can add a webbing D ring straight to the MB harness or attachment that’s a different color that’s meant to break away . Or a custom sling that will break at the weight you want it too, just a thought. Hope you and your family have a safe and blessed Holiday
Can you make an after the holidays version that can hold my fat ass up there, I am too scared to weigh myself but it's going to need to have a WLL of at least 200 lbs?🤣
You've got a lot of smart followers my friend. Great suggestions everyone. I don't know how consistent the resins are for 3d printers we use ours for prototypes for customers before we design and build a production tool. If you weren't on the other side of the country I could machine you some out of aluminum. Using your testing setup to adjust the design. You would get extremely repeatable results from machined aluminum. Machining is much faster as well from a production standpoint. Keep us posted buddy I want to see what you come up with.
@AugustHunicke but you could if it was properly calibrated and rated and came with the proper warnings 😉. I could make them for the monkey beaver crew but I don't have a way to test them and you're a long distance neighbor lol. Let me know what you work out I'm very interested.
How about a webbing based zipper like rock climbers use to brake falls? They of course use a solid piece of webbing with attachments on both ends. I'm suggesting 2 pieces sewn together. You could regulate the tearing of the stitching to anything you wanted. It could be reproduced consistently by selection of known strength thread and number of stitches. Whatever you do, get your patent lawyer on it and don't show it till the paperwork is done. 😁
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I am a 3d printing pro. You didnt mention much by way of materials or printer settings, and, as Ive been watching this channel for years and this is the first 3d.printer mention, Im assuming that you recently got a Bambu labs printer. If you happened to get the X1 or a version of the P1S that is enclosed, you can print with ASA or even PA-CF these are going to be far stronger that PLA and PETG, and hold up to the elements and general use better.
Also note thatyou want to consider print orentation. Looks like you might have it right, but for the carabiner frame, you would want to print that flat on its side, not standing up on any end. This gives layer lines max surface area to adhere too and it keeps the layer lines from being parallel with the stresses on it.
Increase the root radii on the thread form. Buttress style threads might offer more consistency. 👍
carbon fiber nylon/carbon fiber pla @ 90% infill, .18-.2mm layer height. should give you more consistency in breaking strength, then scale/increase the carabiners size up until it reaches the weight range your looking for.
Another option is do just an oval instead of a moving part, the threads are probably creating stress risers and comprimising the strength of the part
Yes exactly
So August what's the target breaking point that you think is reasonable?
I'm ready to purchase whenever you get this together.
500 I think. I don’t think we would sell them though, it seems a little sketchy, someone might not use their brain and then blame me. Joe Boyd says breakaway carabiners should be a “choose your own adventure type of thing“. Lol.
It looks like mbainrot beat me to it lol. It broke exactly where I expected it to. Print some that are just ovals without the thread. The thread is a weak point. I'm a toolmaker and we design and build plastic injection molds. We eliminate sharp corners on both plastic and steel with radii because they are weak points. You can add an hourglass shape in the middle of major axis on both sides and adjust the diameter of the thin portion to adjust the break weight. You're a smart guy August, I had considered a loop of 550 cord but this is much cooler. Way to think outside the box.
Edited to add you can also print rings different thicknesses similar to bridge rings. The thicker rings should hold more weight and the thinner less. Rings would take up less space too.
Great idea.
Suggestion. You may gain some strength if you use a different thread. Maybe an acme thread? Something that doesn’t have a sharp corner which becomes the weakest part. Just a thought.
try printing 100% infill and adding more walls. atleast 5 if you can. i use cura slicer for my printer let me know if i can help
I've had 3d printed functional parts that were a few years old snap from internal tension just sitting there on the shelf, 100% infill petg
abs might be a little better. wouldn't bother with anything 3d printed for anything structural or with a dynamic load unless it's 3d printed metal
3 D Print carabiner looks good.
Great idea! Looking forward to the BBC 2.0 (Beaver Breakaway Carabiner)!
At least you know now where its weak points are. I have faith in your ingenuity. Sometimes you can't succeed without failure. You got this...
What material & infill settings? might be able to inch a little closer if you run it a bit hotter (for better layer fusing at the trade off of print quality) and maybe use PETG instead of PLA. I am surprised no one sells rated fusable links
He definitely looked light on the infill and it broke like PLA. I think you’d want the quick fracture of PLA vs the slow bending of PETG for this purpose. He could also expand the model in all 3 directions to get a little more strength. Maybe 100% infill and a 15-20% size increase?
@@gschgvt2956 maybe, in another comment of mine i reckon he'd also do well to get rid of the hinge and threads, threads are corners and corners are stress risers. But defo agree the sudden brittle failure may be beneficial in a "tree failure" shituation
thats awesome! ive been doing the same thing with my 3d printer. caritools and wedges as well
What filament are you using? Try using PLA+, and play with the printing settings.
It looked like the shaft of the threaded part was hollow? If so, perhaps print a solid shafted one?
How about a strong carabiner that has a fuse plug. Then you can engineer the plug, and make it reset-able. You'll need a hinge, or two, easy enough to build when they don't have to be stronger than the fuse plug. It is a niche component, but crucial given the circumstances.
I’m so excited that you’re developing this August! I REALLY would like a carabiner that I can trust to break away, when the situation calls for it. Those gas station carabiners are too weak. I’ll be waiting! Thanks for sharing!
Love this. Is the 3D model available anywhere for download?
August, plastics are a different beast. The rate at which you apply the load will make a difference in the load that they break at. Fast loads make them break at lower strength. Slower loads make them break at higher loads. Any sharp corners will also greatly affect the results ( bottom of the threads etc). Not sure how consistent you will get with a printer. If there is a market, you would be better to injection mold them.
Would you say that the force on the climber would be double the strength of the carabiner because the lanyard is attached at two points plus the friction around the tree? How much can a human withstand?
I ask myself this last question every night. 🤣
Seeing all the empty space in that and the inconsistency of the weight and structure I'd say no! But in my absolute opinion 3d printing is only good for decoration!
Not if it’s metal 3d printing. Already used in aviation.
@dermotbalaam5358 hobbyists sure not commercial. Either way I still wouldn't trust it because it's incosistant.
Great idea. I'd trust my life on em (in those specific situations) once you get the final product going.
If you are using PLA, try PETG, nylon, ABS, or even carbon fiber as the filament. They may be able to give you a stronger biner.
carbon fiber should get you up there. August you are always coming up with products to make the industry better. just wish I was still in the industry.
While I understand what you are doing and why you are doing it can I maybe suggest using something a bit lower tech?
Why don’t you stitch a figure 8 out of a piece of webbing and use the thread as the breakaway like they do in fall arrest shock absorbing lanyards?
When loaded enough to pop the stitches it would just come apart and release the lanyard…
This seems substantially lower tech to me, lol
I use a piece of rated paracord loop. Then you can cut free with handsaw or knife if needed as well. It’s light weight to keep on saddle and $1 of kit to add to existing lanyards. Not very sellable.
A piece of webbing with breaking stitches seems much more repeatable in break tests, and a product that’s sellable
Might a 550 paracord prusik or two backup be more reliable? Neat looking design you have though, nice looking.
To make a Prusik you have to double the line pull so even 550 gets somewhere around 1000 lbs.
@@thesickhorseranch Part of my point, while not trying to trim Augusts created device and obviously hitches/knots will restrict speedy movement / adjustment verses mechanical devices with weak links, but my idea was something manufactured to a consistent standard might be a good idea. Ryan at HowKnot2 tested a 4mm prusik and on his pull machine achieved 3.74Kn = 840 lbs breaking force, which seems very close to what August was possibly looking for, along with other hitches / knots. Test Results > 4MM PARACORD: *Prusik 3.74kN *Klemheist 3.34kN *Auto Block 3 wraps - slips at 1.34kN, 4 wraps - slips at 5.32kn *Paracord doubled twice 8.90kN *Paracord in a loop 4.06kN. From a June 16th video.
@@macman231 I recall that but someone pointed out that 840 lbs you're mentioning might be double because we're on a flip line doubled around the tree. IDK, I'm liking some of the slipknot ideas where you would be able to manually bail.
@@thesickhorseranch Yep, I agree with your concern, and obviously its very important to August to try and determine how to better keep him and his crew more safe and even more apparent since he's broadcasting his thoughts and designs to the world. I cave by hobby, so I'm always concerned about equipment strength in adverse conditions. The case where you always want "enough" strength, but not "too much" strength is a tough one. Keep in mind forces really happen quick so something at a little higher rating might be just right. Example, again Ryan HowKnot2 rappelling with caving gear he hit 0.94Kn=211lbs. so that's just coming to a stop, and when using a frog ascending method that puts some bounce strain into the rope he hit 1.61Kn=362lbs, so it really doesn't take much to move up in force and I wouldn't want my flip line connection to detach at 360 or even 400lbs as you could easily achieve that just by launching yourself backwards fairly hard, so 800 might actually not be that bad of a starting point. I think he did another vid where he was just connected to a wall and pushing backwards to see what force he could generate by muscle, I'll try and find that next.
@@macman231 I'm tracking. While I've never climbed a tree half as dangerous as some I've seen on Augusts channel I have been way up high in the berries and I totally get what August has said in the past about sneaking up the tree. Moving slowly to avoid imparting any shock anywhere. Some of these sticks bust in the air on the way down just from the new momentum they're experiencing. The safe side of this particular equation is to bail earlier under less strain. The idea being if the tree starts to collapse or buckle you're on your way out, swinging on your lifeline from a safe tie in point. Or I suppose the shitty alternate idea is that when the tree buckles and you're still in it the carabiner will break away before your body see too much force. I obviously dig the slipknot idea where I essentially have a ripcord to pull and I'm free.
just set walls to 999 and it will print it solid, you can also try infill at 100% and you may get different breaking force values
Following the #MB productline/ Store grow & grow and taking it to new heights with items you guys are working to create of your own is impressive to watch. Well worth it to help contribute to your industry & smart cuz it will be around way longer than you will be swinging up in the trees. 😊Even a #MB will have to come down one day. NOT ANYTIME SOON
..BUT ONE DAY.
How about fishing line in the test weight you need? Have a great day.
Try different filaments and fill percentages. I think you are on to something here if you can get consistent results.
I’d be so curious to see that enforcer on your lanyard and see what kind of poundage those things see during a climb
Love the idea august!! Keep us posted id like to purchase a couple when you get them tuned in!!
I go to Walmart and get camping carabiners they work pretty good I think
some times you learn more when things fail, than when they do what they were meant to.
Maybe instead of a Carabiner you can add a webbing D ring straight to the MB harness or attachment that’s a different color that’s meant to break away . Or a custom sling that will break at the weight you want it too, just a thought. Hope you and your family have a safe and blessed Holiday
You should make a smaller one for my dog leash
I would use it
AWESOME !!!! I hope you get something figured out !!! If/when you do I'll be buying 👍👍
👍 MonkeyBeaver break testing
is always fun to watch 😎
I like how your mind works 🌟
Can you make an after the holidays version that can hold my fat ass up there, I am too scared to weigh myself but it's going to need to have a WLL of at least 200 lbs?🤣
😂😂😂 yeah I'm 230 and that's naked lol
lmao
You've got a lot of smart followers my friend. Great suggestions everyone. I don't know how consistent the resins are for 3d printers we use ours for prototypes for customers before we design and build a production tool. If you weren't on the other side of the country I could machine you some out of aluminum. Using your testing setup to adjust the design. You would get extremely repeatable results from machined aluminum. Machining is much faster as well from a production standpoint. Keep us posted buddy I want to see what you come up with.
The breakaway thing is not something we’d sell. Joe calls it a choose your own adventure type of thing 😁
@AugustHunicke but you could if it was properly calibrated and rated and came with the proper warnings 😉. I could make them for the monkey beaver crew but I don't have a way to test them and you're a long distance neighbor lol. Let me know what you work out I'm very interested.
We dont wanna sell em 😁
@AugustHunicke I understand 😅 lot of potential for bad things happening there!
Genius
Better safe than sorry!😮
Paracord and a knot. Keep it simple
Try 2 in the opposite direction
He'll I've got a Daniel Defense suppressor, it's 3d printed, and rated to .300 Win Mag
Given you get double that on a flip line. I'd be tempted to test it in a tree. Just to see what it takes to break it.
It’s a liability factor even putting those out August..
What does “putting them out mean.”
The WHOLE tree industry is a liability factor, it's all about managing liability. 😜
@@AugustHunicke selling them to the public is what I was getting at, i can see someone using it on a life line and suing, idk just to risky
Ya
Neat
Try PETG @ 100%
How about a webbing based zipper like rock climbers use to brake falls? They of course use a solid piece of webbing with attachments on both ends. I'm suggesting 2 pieces sewn together. You could regulate the tearing of the stitching to anything you wanted. It could be reproduced consistently by selection of known strength thread and number of stitches. Whatever you do, get your patent lawyer on it and don't show it till the paperwork is done. 😁
And delete this idea as soon as you read it
Nope!