When i say this is the greatest composite fiber channel on any platform, i genuinely mean it. The excruciating details are always covered but in the clearest and most concise way. You help us pleebs genuinely understand what we are hoping to achieve in addition to the step by step process. Dark aero is a worthy near-peer, but you are the man.
@@sytran666 I'm working on a turbo 999cc briggs vanguard and a 1200cc vmax powered crosskart, and my perpetually broken 532ci 385 series bbf 1969 f100. I just try to make parts here and there with aluminum and composites. My channel is directionsnotincluded. I'm not a "RUclipsr" I have just posted a couple videos.
@@2000jago It's an opinion. I don't think he's stating an objective fact or that he's trying to. I mean it would be impossible to prove that there aren't aliens out there with better composites video on a platform we don't have access to, but who cares?
Awsome , I’ve heard of low melt alloys before but never actually had a go due to not being able to find any suitable and knowing the actual process without lots of experimenting . As usual your videos are priceless wealth of knowledge . Cheers 🇬🇧👍
thanks for the great video I have a question The female mold is 3d printed with heat-resistant filament such as PC or UV resin. Is it possible to cast the LM95 directly into the female mold?
It’s in interesting question. It would depend on the stiffness of the plastic when exposed to the temperature of the metal. The LM95 needs to be poured at at least 110, ideally, more like 120. If the resin print didn’t soften noticeably at this temperature then casting the metal directly into a 3D printed mould would be an option. Silicone is very stable at these temperatures which means it retains excellent accuracy, but if the plastic does move a bit, it might still be an option for less dimensionally critical components.
I have a wild question; Could you distill the water after using it for cleaning to remove the metals so it may be disposed of properly? Seeing that water boils at a much lower temp than the metal and resin, couldn't you just separate the two through distillation?
Thanks Ian, you might or might not) be surprised just how much work goes into them, it’s weeks of work, scripts, shooting, retakes, feedback, self criticism, re-shooting, all with the goal of trying to make the subject as clear as possible without it ever getting boring. It’s more challenging than the composites!
@@easycompositestvthose of us who have worked in professional video production (entertainment for me) can appreciate the massive amount of behind the lens effort here
@@easycompositestv/videos Its a very interesting topic and I like the fact that your company provides everything needed. However I would caution your not to try to rely too much on vendor lock-in. For instance, revealing the formula for the metal alloys wouldn't hurt since people are often more loyal to companies that are willing to share some of their recipes and you never know when someone might be able to tweak the recipe and make a better alloy. I know that businesses, for liability reasons, like to buy things off the shelf but all those businesses usually started from a common man indulging in a new hobby. Helping people get into the hobby on a low budget can create future customers very quickly. Maybe someone will invent something very useful while playing around.
In less than 25 minutes, not rushed, you not only did a demo of a pretty complicated fabrication method, you did it in two different ways. I started watching these to see if it might be possible to add carbon fiber to my work with model aircraft, and now I'm certain I can do it. But it's not just your techniques that are good, your video presentations are really first rate. I'm sure it took days if not weeks to put together this video. Thank you and great work!
The older lost mandrel technique is using regular Styrofoam. Carve/mill the foam blank to your mandrel shape. Layup the fibre/resin in the regular fashion as if it was the permeant foam core. After the epoxy cures, you can use acetone to melt the Styrofoam mandrel.
I actually did this with fiber glass for a rear speak housing in a 56 Chevy bel air. Ended up just leaving the foam to dampen its sound when tge seat belt hit it. Glad to know this was a real technique
@@easycompositestv I've seen the same thing done with home insulation foam boards. I'm pretty sure they can take high temps as they should be fire resistant. then you melt them out with acetone or paint thinner.
Thanks, that's cool to hear. It's been a video we've been meaning to make for a while. It's not the answer to most composites conundrums but for specific challenges it can be a really useful process to understand.
I could watch these videos for hours! In reality, I’ll probably never get round to making any parts like these but I still find it super interesting to know how it’s done. Thanks guys
Well, you would have to use a room temp cure epoxy if you use a wax mold. Unless you have a wax than can survive going through the curing oven at a temp that will harden the epoxy.
Haha, I don't think Koenigsegg would put a claim to this process; although it's not a widely known process, it has been used in composites since well before before their company existed.
It's used in every part of the car ventilation channels. They make the low melt, put it in the injection moulding machines , inject plastic around and then melt it out.
Thanks for the kind comment, that's my first go at 3D animation so I'm glad you found it helpful, I'm sure we'll be using animation again in future videos!
Fairly complex process but you did make a nice light-wt part. Mack trucks had some complex fiberglass engine intake shapes, long before 3D printing, we made external aluminum molds , wrapped mandrel made of inflatable rubber bladders in the laminate, wet, clamp alum molds around in a press, inflated bladder, allowed room temp cure or headed molds as reqd, and repeat! Not Light wt parts but strong. Now similar is done with blow molded abs! ( not as strong though) Cheers Warren
What an absolutely amazing tutorial. Thanks for doing this, as they are extremely informative and make me want to really start doing this for a load of parts.
Other low melting alloys: Wood's metal, also known as Lipowitz's alloy or by the commercial names Cerrobend, Bendalloy, Pewtalloy and MCP 158. Also Rose's metal, Field's metal Cerrolow 117, Cerrolow 136 and Cerrosafe.
Thanks for another great video! I have no affiliation but, you should reach out to Tavarish. He's rebuilding a McLaren P1 and he is replacing the hood, front clamshell, and rear clamshell and was quoted around $225k from McLaren for just those 3 items 😲 It would be amazing if you and @tavarish could work together to build carbon fiber replacements for the P1!
If he's using PVA for release agent, I don't see why you couldn't use a PVA printed core. A few shells and fairly open infill could probably be removed pretty easily with warm water when finished.
It would be beneficial to use silicon double sided press instead of vacuum bag for the best surface finish. Are there anything against this method, could you make video about using rubber membrane press for composites?
Hi Anton, yes, you can do this. No real downsides providing the geometry of what you’re making allows relatively uniform pressure to be created across the whole surface; for example, a press will create pressure top and bottom but less pressure on the sides. You can mitigate this by restraining the silicone laterally but this takes a very strong construction (like a metal perimeter). We’ll definitely be doing some videos on silicone pressure moulding soon.
Reminds me of the late 1970's when Gossamer Albatross made the first human powered flight across the channel. In that case a 30m tubular aluminium mandrel was laid up and wrapped in shrink tape. Hot oil was pumped through to cure the composite and then acid dissolved out the tube.
Enjoy watching your videos. Very easy to follow. Would you be able to include in a video of how to mold in an air fitting in the sidewall of the tubing that will be able to withstand 3-400 PSI
It sounds like the constraint is you need a resin that will survive post curing at a temperature higher than the melting point of the metal. Most hand layup resins can't do that, I suspect. A lot of hand layup resins can't achieve a glass transition temperature of 91 C no matter how you post cure them.
So it’s right that the constraint is the Tg of the resin and also that most conventional epoxies would have a Tg of about 60-80C so this is the problem. However, there are high temperature laminating resins, like our EL160, that have much higher Tgs (160C in the case of EL160) that would cope no problem.
I have been trying to figure this out for the longest time and not many places on the net had info on melting mandrels. Thanks for showing this process. Could you guys do a short or episode on the proper methods of implementing fasteners and aluminum plates to avoid galvanic corrosion?
Do you really need to worry about it? Galvanic corrosion only occurs in the presence of an electrolyte solution. So unless your parts are going to get wet (and stay wet) with a salt water solution of some kind, it is not a concern. You probably can't walk through a room in your house with out walking past something that has screws running into aluminum - it is not an issue. Don't get sucked into this nonsense.
@@joshua43214 as someone who works in the automotive industry I see galvanic corrosion all the time. If I was making car parts I’d be concerned about this for sure. I guess it depends on his application.
@@KindredAutomotive Yes, cars can be very prone to this if they salt the roads enough to degrade the anodizing. In practice though, it is not a concern for most stuff. Just consider all the aluminum around you; your screen door, your TV, your siding, the signs at your local stores, etc. Galvanic corrosion *requires* an electrolyte
I'm surprised how similar this is compared to Alex Lab, he is making an Iron Man suit and has RND into these exact same methods. The only difference between this, and his method, is the incorporation of electroplating metal onto the 3D printed side, and the reinforcement of carbon fiber on the other side.
As someone with only limited practical experience, I wonder why not continuous woven sleeve, for the simple part? Seems like it should both be easier to work with, and get better material properties and cosmetics? Or are the advantages of professionally infused prepreg hard to beat? Or is it that it would be harder to conform to such a geometry than I would imagine it would?
As far as I know woven pre preg ‘ sock / sleeve ‘ is not available easily if at all . Probably due to it being less compliant when large changes in direction or diameter. Not to say there isn’t anyone out there manufacturing it . Secondly pre preg carbon fibre sock / sleeve would be harder to control resin ratio during the manufacturing process as pre preg resin is usually applied to woven carbon via a roller system and it also applies the protective film at the same time so it can be roles onto cardboard tubes . You would need an inner and outer protective film on sock / sleeve to stop the inner walls from sticking together while in manufacture and storage and that would not be practical .
@@newagetemplar6100 no i wasnt expecting such a prepreg sock to be available; let alone in the diameter or thickness or weave of interest; but I would expect pretty clean results wetting out a sock by hand.
@@eelcohoogendoorn8044 yeah sorry , thought you were on the pre preg thinking mode . Yeah you could use a dry ‘sock’ and probably quite well , generally it will bridge between an inner radius . The sock will conform quite well as if you pull both ends it will naturally tighten around the mandrel then wrap with the release tape . May get a bit messy too but as you would have to melt the core out high temp resin would have to be used so it’s way easier to use pre preg . A solid wax core is an alternative using the same process if the end product is not subject to extreme temps . Again sorry for the confusion but hope this helps
I've seen this same process used with house insulation foam instead of metal. you form the foam in the shape you want, wax it, create your carbon fiber shell, and then melt the foam using some kind of acetone or solvent. pink insulation foam boards are easily available at your local home depot or lowes.
that was hidden tech. i remember when koenigseg didn't want to tell how they make hollow carbonfibre parts :D and they are pretty much open for most of the stuff
I had an idea of something similar: Water soluble 3d print filament. I haven't tried it out yet but it should theoretically work about the same with half the effort.
@@joeshumo9457 I’m guessing pva filament. I’m assuming it the carbon would have to be cured first and then have the pva dissolved out, instead of all at once like the metal method in the video.
It takes way too long to do it, I ve tried this method and disappointed. Best would be sla wax resin or wax fillament for fdm from fillamentarno (hard to get and hard to print)
This works fine, but it can take a while to dissolve the male mould out of the carbon part, , the exact time depending on the brand of the PVA filament. Anything up to 48 hours. Best to design some channels in the interior of the male mould to allow the water to access a larger area (rather than just the ends) - or drilling holes in the PVA after curing the carbon. Having said that you avoid the intermediate stages of silicone moulding etc in this approach by printing the male mould directly. I have usually ended up scraping the last of the PVA sludge off the inside of the part.
For the wishbone, what are the advantages of this process over just laying up the prepreg over the polyurethane model board pattern? The finished piece will be lighter by the weight of the pattern, but are there other differences/advantages?
Tubular objects don't really benefit from having a core is my guess. It would be tougher with the core, but if engineering design determines you don't need it then you don't need it.
Pretty much as Lupus says, most components like this achieve a higher strength to weight ration by being hollow. A foam core of sufficient density to take a reasonable amount of consolidation pressure would weigh many grams and add little to the stiffness of the finished component. That said, there definitely are times when laminating around the outside of a core that’s left in is a good way to go. You need a core that can take prepreg curing temperatures, like Rohacell.
Does the surface of the silicone moulds exceed the working temperature of PLA/PETG during casting? Silicone has a poor thermal conductivity and high specific heat capacity so I imagine it should be possible to reuse the 3D printed barries to stiffen the silicone mould for casting.
Yes, this is good spot. Someone else pointed this out too and I’d have to agree; using the 3D printed barriers to retain and contain the silicone when casting the mandrel would make a lot of sense 👍.
If I had to guess, the alloy is effectively a type of solder. Especially because I'd imagine the alloy needs to be eutectic to avoid deformation under pressure during the initial cure. And the usually low shrinkage of eutectic alloys is a plus. If this is the case, some neat things can be done, speaking from some experience doing stained glass. You can use the lead free alloy to make the initial madrels and components, and then use the lower melting point alloy with a soldering iron to correct surface mistakes and join parts. We used lower lead solders (higher melting points) to fill large gaps, and surfaced them with the regular 60-40 because it wouldn't melt the 63-37, allowing it to sit on top.
is it possible to make the same thing with a 3d printed part that printed with water soluble PVA flament, or would it be broken under vacuum pressure? If possible can you make a video about it too.
Thanks for making this video, I never knew that using an alloy with a low melting temperature as the core for a part was even something that could be done. If I ever wanted to make a prototype of a carbon fiber part, I definitely think that this would be the way to do it
Amazing process! I had no idea you could use those low temp alloy in such a way. Please please please keep these videos coming! Very enjoyable content! 🤜🏼🤛🏼😎🍀
I want to see someone hydroform a thin metal inner, then overwrap it in carbon fibre, and then call it finished. Just like a composite pressure vessel, except as a mechanical linkage.
What about the heating of leadded metal, will the vapour be toxic? Does the unleadded alloy have the same melting temperature is it gallium based? Also can this wishbone be used to replace car wishbones which are made of cast aluminium?
I'm a little annoyed that they didn't get into the metallurgy but gallium was my first guess. It's really the only metal that suits this application, since it's the only room temperature liquid phase metal besides mercury, but mercury would be impractical since you'd have to work at -40C.
I have been wanting to see something like this for years trying to figure out how to make complex induction tubes for boosted, engine applications or cold air intakes. Amazing.
VERY nice. I started watching and subbed to the channel because of my love of recumbent trikes and hoping to 1 day build 1. The melt out metal core almost seems like it should be the holy grail for a lot of bike/trike frame builds. You could easily use a silicone plug whose size would slip out in order to reduce the amount of metal to get inserted.
Having a company that not only offers excellent product, but stands behind them by providing the most accurate video material and support is a rare luxury. Also, for all of us that moved out of the UK😢 the EU based warehouse is a blessing. Can’t thank you guys enough for all the hard work 👍💪💪
Great video. I would make a foam core for the wishbone, with some wire set into it. carbon fibre is brittle, so a bit risky for a safety component like a wishbone. The wire would (hopefully) stop it falling completely apart in a failure. ETA: I didn't realise it was for a recumbent cycle, so maybe reinforcement isn't necessary.
You always have the best ideas! Freakin wood's metal! Brilliant! Even my 3d printed nylon or PC molds can handle wood's! I only do composites for RC planes, but your channel has singlehandedly upped my hobby level to pro, seriously.
You can also get a rough estimate of volume using your kitchen sink. Or your bath tub, if the part is too big. Fill it with water - enough to easily submerge the part - and mark the water line with a sharpie. Submerge the part, and mark the new water line. Remove the part, make sure the water line is back to the previous line, and measure the volume of water it takes to fill to the second mark. It'll be inaccurate, but it can get by in a pinch. The ideal way of doing this is having a container in another container, where the smallest container is large enough to fit your part. You fill the smallest inner container to the brim with water, and submerge your part. It'll displace a volume of water equal to the volume of your part to the larger container, measure that and that's your volume.
could you 3d print a mandrel in PLA, wrap it using a 2 part epoxy, and then heat it to 60 or 70 c (higher than the glass transition temp of PLA), so that the pla could be removed easily? I know that the curing of the epoxy releases heat, but are there epoxies that cure without enough heat to deform PLA? (or say, PETG at 80ish c?)
PLA will deform but not drip out until 200+ 'c, and even then its sticky so wouldn't come out. There are PVA based dissolve-able filaments that you can print with and then dissolve with water. I want to try it someday.
@@ratgreen yeah, I didnt actually mean that it would drip out. I think for at least simple tubes and the like it could be deformed enough that one could pull it out in one big chunk.
Yes Water soluble filaments may work in some cases. In our experience, they seem to be hard to dissolve out but that may improve with new products over time.
I've been watching your videos for a few years, they're exactly why I first started watching YT. To be educated and inspired to make things. Really amazing 👍
This looks mega for some aero projects in Formula student. We often need aluminium inserts within layups for end plates and winglets. Would it be reasonable to jig aluminium inserts within the melting metal during casting, and have them left behind after the final melt?
What I love about mould making is the variety of techniques and options that are out there. Coming from a background of Glass casting I am automatically thinking of using the variety of Wax, moulding plaster and Clay, all of which could have their part in some parts of this type of work.
Your video demonstrates the time, materials, tools and equiped work space others have to put into making a component if you were paying someone else to make your component. Value for money is not always understood. Excellent work.
This was really cool. I love that low melt alloy stuff. Can't help but thing that if you could 3d print some lower melt plastic that is more fluid than tacky like then you could skip the alloy step 🤔
Thanks for the comment Astrix, we have done a lot of testing with printed mandrels, unfortunately there isn't anything out there that can withstand the temperature and pressure of the initial cure without distortion or collapse, even when the cure is below the theoretical HDT of the polymer. Be sure to let us know if you find one though!
When i say this is the greatest composite fiber channel on any platform, i genuinely mean it. The excruciating details are always covered but in the clearest and most concise way. You help us pleebs genuinely understand what we are hoping to achieve in addition to the step by step process. Dark aero is a worthy near-peer, but you are the man.
what do you build?
@@sytran666 I'm working on a turbo 999cc briggs vanguard and a 1200cc vmax powered crosskart, and my perpetually broken 532ci 385 series bbf 1969 f100. I just try to make parts here and there with aluminum and composites. My channel is directionsnotincluded. I'm not a "RUclipsr" I have just posted a couple videos.
@@2000jago It's an opinion. I don't think he's stating an objective fact or that he's trying to. I mean it would be impossible to prove that there aren't aliens out there with better composites video on a platform we don't have access to, but who cares?
@@2000jagoyou don't get the whole opinion thing, do you? Maybe work on the reading comprehension.
Awsome , I’ve heard of low melt alloys before but never actually had a go due to not being able to find any suitable and knowing the actual process without lots of experimenting .
As usual your videos are priceless wealth of knowledge .
Cheers
🇬🇧👍
Thanks very much, appreciate the feedback and now you know where you can get some low-melt alloy from 😉.
I assume the trike frame was a mono rear suspension arm?
Could you do a video (or point me to one I missed) on how to get clean glossy surfaces with the XCR coating system?
Hi Julian, sure take a look at the 'mouldless carbon fibre' video where we finish the XCR ruclips.net/video/0Yaggj16S08/видео.html
@@easycompositestv thanks! You guys are the best.
thanks for the great video
I have a question
The female mold is 3d printed with heat-resistant filament such as PC or UV resin.
Is it possible to cast the LM95 directly into the female mold?
It’s in interesting question. It would depend on the stiffness of the plastic when exposed to the temperature of the metal. The LM95 needs to be poured at at least 110, ideally, more like 120. If the resin print didn’t soften noticeably at this temperature then casting the metal directly into a 3D printed mould would be an option. Silicone is very stable at these temperatures which means it retains excellent accuracy, but if the plastic does move a bit, it might still be an option for less dimensionally critical components.
Hmm all the possibilities of slicone mould 😏
Is this metal same as lead ?
No, it is an alloy including lead and other metals to get the combination of properties needed.
I have a wild question; Could you distill the water after using it for cleaning to remove the metals so it may be disposed of properly? Seeing that water boils at a much lower temp than the metal and resin, couldn't you just separate the two through distillation?
Just allow it to evaporate naturally and you are then left with the metal residue.
@@easycompositestv Perfect! Thank you so much!
This video could be a master class of how to script, produce, and shoot a technical video. Simply incredible, and a joy to watch. Bravo!
Thanks Ian, you might or might not) be surprised just how much work goes into them, it’s weeks of work, scripts, shooting, retakes, feedback, self criticism, re-shooting, all with the goal of trying to make the subject as clear as possible without it ever getting boring. It’s more challenging than the composites!
@@easycompositestvAnd the end result is strong, clear, and lighthearted. Just like the composites you sell. Great work.🥇
@@easycompositestvthose of us who have worked in professional video production (entertainment for me) can appreciate the massive amount of behind the lens effort here
Your video's are so well done and the process so well explained I have found myself looking for excuses to try out these projects.
Thanks, that's great to hear. I hope you find the excuse you need and have a go!
I agree totally
@@easycompositestv/videos Its a very interesting topic and I like the fact that your company provides everything needed. However I would caution your not to try to rely too much on vendor lock-in. For instance, revealing the formula for the metal alloys wouldn't hurt since people are often more loyal to companies that are willing to share some of their recipes and you never know when someone might be able to tweak the recipe and make a better alloy. I know that businesses, for liability reasons, like to buy things off the shelf but all those businesses usually started from a common man indulging in a new hobby. Helping people get into the hobby on a low budget can create future customers very quickly. Maybe someone will invent something very useful while playing around.
In less than 25 minutes, not rushed, you not only did a demo of a pretty complicated fabrication method, you did it in two different ways. I started watching these to see if it might be possible to add carbon fiber to my work with model aircraft, and now I'm certain I can do it. But it's not just your techniques that are good, your video presentations are really first rate. I'm sure it took days if not weeks to put together this video. Thank you and great work!
Thanks for the feedback Tom, and yes, they take weeks!
The older lost mandrel technique is using regular Styrofoam. Carve/mill the foam blank to your mandrel shape. Layup the fibre/resin in the regular fashion as if it was the permeant foam core. After the epoxy cures, you can use acetone to melt the Styrofoam mandrel.
Only flaw is the limitation of the styrofoam if you want to use higher temp processes like pre-preg.
I actually did this with fiber glass for a rear speak housing in a 56 Chevy bel air. Ended up just leaving the foam to dampen its sound when tge seat belt hit it. Glad to know this was a real technique
@@brett9382 If it works its a real technique :P if it doesn't it was also a real technique but not a good one.
@@easycompositestv I've seen the same thing done with home insulation foam boards. I'm pretty sure they can take high temps as they should be fire resistant. then you melt them out with acetone or paint thinner.
I used to do this ceramics. Built up the clay around the form and it would burn out in the kiln when fired.
Imagine you Would use This Technique on a submarine that would be so smart.
Next time I need composite supply I'll buy from you just because you put in all this effort. These videos are amazing and educational. Thank you!
No kidding! THIS is how you drum up business.
I think all of your videos are great but this one really blew my mind. I really want to try this myself.
Thanks for the excellent video.
Thanks, that's cool to hear. It's been a video we've been meaning to make for a while. It's not the answer to most composites conundrums but for specific challenges it can be a really useful process to understand.
Man the quality of these just keep getting higher and higher... That animation was smooth
I could watch these videos for hours! In reality, I’ll probably never get round to making any parts like these but I still find it super interesting to know how it’s done. Thanks guys
What is the benefit of using this alloy over making a wax mold?
Well, you would have to use a room temp cure epoxy if you use a wax mold. Unless you have a wax than can survive going through the curing oven at a temp that will harden the epoxy.
Koenigsegg lawsuit incoming
Hahahahaha, followed by a C&D
Why????
Haha, I don't think Koenigsegg would put a claim to this process; although it's not a widely known process, it has been used in composites since well before before their company existed.
@@easycompositestv I was just joking around hehe. Since they're special thing is hallow carbon wheels.
It's used in every part of the car ventilation channels. They make the low melt, put it in the injection moulding machines , inject plastic around and then melt it out.
Could you do something similar with 3d printed parts made with water soluble filaments?
It's great to get to enjoy a new video from you ! BTW, these explaining animations at 1:30 are absolutely stunning ! They help a lot to understand
Thanks for the kind comment, that's my first go at 3D animation so I'm glad you found it helpful, I'm sure we'll be using animation again in future videos!
Fairly complex process but you did make a nice light-wt part.
Mack trucks had some complex fiberglass engine intake shapes, long before 3D printing, we made external aluminum molds , wrapped mandrel made of inflatable rubber bladders in the laminate, wet, clamp alum molds around in a press, inflated bladder, allowed room temp cure or headed molds as reqd, and repeat! Not Light wt parts but strong. Now similar is done with blow molded abs! ( not as strong though)
Cheers Warren
based
What an absolutely amazing tutorial. Thanks for doing this, as they are extremely informative and make me want to really start doing this for a load of parts.
Other low melting alloys:
Wood's metal, also known as Lipowitz's alloy or by the commercial names Cerrobend, Bendalloy, Pewtalloy and MCP 158.
Also Rose's metal, Field's metal Cerrolow 117, Cerrolow 136 and Cerrosafe.
Thanks for another great video! I have no affiliation but, you should reach out to Tavarish. He's rebuilding a McLaren P1 and he is replacing the hood, front clamshell, and rear clamshell and was quoted around $225k from McLaren for just those 3 items 😲 It would be amazing if you and @tavarish could work together to build carbon fiber replacements for the P1!
Ever try water soluable 3d print filament?
If he's using PVA for release agent, I don't see why you couldn't use a PVA printed core. A few shells and fairly open infill could probably be removed pretty easily with warm water when finished.
This is unironically genius.
It would be beneficial to use silicon double sided press instead of vacuum bag for the best surface finish. Are there anything against this method, could you make video about using rubber membrane press for composites?
Hi Anton, yes, you can do this. No real downsides providing the geometry of what you’re making allows relatively uniform pressure to be created across the whole surface; for example, a press will create pressure top and bottom but less pressure on the sides. You can mitigate this by restraining the silicone laterally but this takes a very strong construction (like a metal perimeter).
We’ll definitely be doing some videos on silicone pressure moulding soon.
Reminds me of the late 1970's when Gossamer Albatross made the first human powered flight across the channel.
In that case a 30m tubular aluminium mandrel was laid up and wrapped in shrink tape. Hot oil was pumped through to cure the composite and then acid dissolved out the tube.
I have absolutely no plan to do any of this but still watched the entire video. Great video
Enjoy watching your videos. Very easy to follow. Would you be able to include in a video of how to mold in an air fitting in the sidewall of the tubing that will be able to withstand 3-400 PSI
What I want to see.... 3D printing a part with low temp filament, carbon fiber wrapping it, heat part and pull out 3D printed core.
I am hoping to fabricate an induction system for my VW aero engine.....this video is super encouraging.
That's awesome!!! Now I NEED to make something, but I don't know what yet...
is prepreg necessary for this method? or can you use simpler wet layup methods?
It sounds like the constraint is you need a resin that will survive post curing at a temperature higher than the melting point of the metal. Most hand layup resins can't do that, I suspect. A lot of hand layup resins can't achieve a glass transition temperature of 91 C no matter how you post cure them.
@@mckenziekeith7434 thanks, yeah hadnt thought of that. Maybe an even lower melting point alloy
So it’s right that the constraint is the Tg of the resin and also that most conventional epoxies would have a Tg of about 60-80C so this is the problem. However, there are high temperature laminating resins, like our EL160, that have much higher Tgs (160C in the case of EL160) that would cope no problem.
Can some kind of hard wax be used instead of metal for the core?
Very cool videos as usual 🥳Always watching with interest but no way to do it at home though 😓
Ultra light stealth gliders and drones for everyone😂. Also see the cost of scrap pewter going up.Just some 💭. ❤👍
I have been trying to figure this out for the longest time and not many places on the net had info on melting mandrels. Thanks for showing this process. Could you guys do a short or episode on the proper methods of implementing fasteners and aluminum plates to avoid galvanic corrosion?
Use fiberglass for around the metal fasteners
Or fully 2k epoxy paint the fasteners
Do you really need to worry about it?
Galvanic corrosion only occurs in the presence of an electrolyte solution. So unless your parts are going to get wet (and stay wet) with a salt water solution of some kind, it is not a concern.
You probably can't walk through a room in your house with out walking past something that has screws running into aluminum - it is not an issue. Don't get sucked into this nonsense.
@@joshua43214 as someone who works in the automotive industry I see galvanic corrosion all the time. If I was making car parts I’d be concerned about this for sure. I guess it depends on his application.
@@KindredAutomotive Yes, cars can be very prone to this if they salt the roads enough to degrade the anodizing.
In practice though, it is not a concern for most stuff. Just consider all the aluminum around you; your screen door, your TV, your siding, the signs at your local stores, etc.
Galvanic corrosion *requires* an electrolyte
Idea:
carbon fiber skeletal framework combined with parachute silk to create drone rotors that could carry humans (biomimic dragonfly wings)
I'm surprised how similar this is compared to Alex Lab, he is making an Iron Man suit and has RND into these exact same methods.
The only difference between this, and his method, is the incorporation of electroplating metal onto the 3D printed side, and the reinforcement of carbon fiber on the other side.
Hmm could one use some wax printed stuff and apply the carbon fiber to it? Or i guess there should be some low melting point plastics?
As someone with only limited practical experience, I wonder why not continuous woven sleeve, for the simple part? Seems like it should both be easier to work with, and get better material properties and cosmetics? Or are the advantages of professionally infused prepreg hard to beat? Or is it that it would be harder to conform to such a geometry than I would imagine it would?
As far as I know woven pre preg ‘ sock / sleeve ‘ is not available easily if at all . Probably due to it being less compliant when large changes in direction or diameter. Not to say there isn’t anyone out there manufacturing it .
Secondly pre preg carbon fibre sock / sleeve would be harder to control resin ratio during the manufacturing process as pre preg resin is usually applied to woven carbon via a roller system and it also applies the protective film at the same time so it can be roles onto cardboard tubes .
You would need an inner and outer protective film on sock / sleeve to stop the inner walls from sticking together while in manufacture and storage and that would not be practical .
@@newagetemplar6100 no i wasnt expecting such a prepreg sock to be available; let alone in the diameter or thickness or weave of interest; but I would expect pretty clean results wetting out a sock by hand.
@@eelcohoogendoorn8044 yeah sorry , thought you were on the pre preg thinking mode .
Yeah you could use a dry ‘sock’ and probably quite well , generally it will bridge between an inner radius . The sock will conform quite well as if you pull both ends it will naturally tighten around the mandrel then wrap with the release tape .
May get a bit messy too but as you would have to melt the core out high temp resin would have to be used so it’s way easier to use pre preg .
A solid wax core is an alternative using the same process if the end product is not subject to extreme temps .
Again sorry for the confusion but hope this helps
I've seen this same process used with house insulation foam instead of metal. you form the foam in the shape you want, wax it, create your carbon fiber shell, and then melt the foam using some kind of acetone or solvent. pink insulation foam boards are easily available at your local home depot or lowes.
that was hidden tech. i remember when koenigseg didn't want to tell how they make hollow carbonfibre parts :D and they are pretty much open for most of the stuff
This would be cool for 3d printed filament that dissolves in water.
Wish this was cheaper so one off parts didnt cost so much, doing for multiple use becomes worth it
As someone how works on an FS car making wishbones like this is incredibly tempting
"No T1000's were harmed in the production of this video"
I had an idea of something similar: Water soluble 3d print filament. I haven't tried it out yet but it should theoretically work about the same with half the effort.
Like flour and water?
@@joeshumo9457 I’m guessing pva filament. I’m assuming it the carbon would have to be cured first and then have the pva dissolved out, instead of all at once like the metal method in the video.
It takes way too long to do it, I ve tried this method and disappointed. Best would be sla wax resin or wax fillament for fdm from fillamentarno (hard to get and hard to print)
This works fine, but it can take a while to dissolve the male mould out of the carbon part, , the exact time depending on the brand of the PVA filament. Anything up to 48 hours. Best to design some channels in the interior of the male mould to allow the water to access a larger area (rather than just the ends) - or drilling holes in the PVA after curing the carbon. Having said that you avoid the intermediate stages of silicone moulding etc in this approach by printing the male mould directly. I have usually ended up scraping the last of the PVA sludge off the inside of the part.
If you can't have a large opening to get water in stick with hard wax or oil based clay
I’ve tried coating parts with a bristle brush and didn’t like the result. I switched to a white foam roller and that was much easier to sand flat
Very informative channel. Subscribed!
I have done very very little composite fabrication in my life but this channel makes me want go deep into it
i imagine the metal stuff they use has gallium in it because it is less harmful than lead and mercury but still has a relatively low melting point
So well explained. Although you made that look so easy, i know from dabling in CF a few years ago it really isn't.
Excellent job. 👌
For the wishbone, what are the advantages of this process over just laying up the prepreg over the polyurethane model board pattern? The finished piece will be lighter by the weight of the pattern, but are there other differences/advantages?
Tubular objects don't really benefit from having a core is my guess. It would be tougher with the core, but if engineering design determines you don't need it then you don't need it.
Pretty much as Lupus says, most components like this achieve a higher strength to weight ration by being hollow. A foam core of sufficient density to take a reasonable amount of consolidation pressure would weigh many grams and add little to the stiffness of the finished component. That said, there definitely are times when laminating around the outside of a core that’s left in is a good way to go. You need a core that can take prepreg curing temperatures, like Rohacell.
Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply.
Great video! It got me thinking about how many of my own projects this method could be used for. Also, 12g is impressively light!
Does the surface of the silicone moulds exceed the working temperature of PLA/PETG during casting? Silicone has a poor thermal conductivity and high specific heat capacity so I imagine it should be possible to reuse the 3D printed barries to stiffen the silicone mould for casting.
Yes, this is good spot. Someone else pointed this out too and I’d have to agree; using the 3D printed barriers to retain and contain the silicone when casting the mandrel would make a lot of sense 👍.
Is it possible to directly machine the alloy instead of casting it?
It's an amazing useful video. Thanks a lot
If I had to guess, the alloy is effectively a type of solder. Especially because I'd imagine the alloy needs to be eutectic to avoid deformation under pressure during the initial cure. And the usually low shrinkage of eutectic alloys is a plus.
If this is the case, some neat things can be done, speaking from some experience doing stained glass.
You can use the lead free alloy to make the initial madrels and components, and then use the lower melting point alloy with a soldering iron to correct surface mistakes and join parts. We used lower lead solders (higher melting points) to fill large gaps, and surfaced them with the regular 60-40 because it wouldn't melt the 63-37, allowing it to sit on top.
I remember back in the day braiding wood in Carbon Fibre to make a bike frame
Never thought I'd see CF take a dump before lol
is it possible to make the same thing with a 3d printed part that printed with water soluble PVA flament, or would it be broken under vacuum pressure? If possible can you make a video about it too.
Yeah, it would be an interesting process. 👍
After watching this video im just impressed with the details and superior description of everything!
If you're taking a mold of an existing metal part how do you know how much carbon fibre to make it out of for it to be strong enough?
What kind of metal?
Have you tried to use wax instead metal? Time uses wax to produce bike frames.
Its the best, but not for prepreg. Fabric is usually harded to handle
Thanks for making this video, I never knew that using an alloy with a low melting temperature as the core for a part was even something that could be done. If I ever wanted to make a prototype of a carbon fiber part, I definitely think that this would be the way to do it
So cool man. I want to make everything I own into carbon fibre versions haha!
This is really cool. 🤔👍
Love your video ! By the way, is Terminator made of LM95 or LM138?
I think it is a higher temperature alloy!
Amazing process!
I had no idea you could use those low temp alloy in such a way.
Please please please keep these videos coming!
Very enjoyable content!
🤜🏼🤛🏼😎🍀
Thanks Steve, we will! A few in the pipeline already, as you’d expect 😀.
I want to see someone hydroform a thin metal inner, then overwrap it in carbon fibre, and then call it finished. Just like a composite pressure vessel, except as a mechanical linkage.
No reason why a metal skin or inner could not be wrapped in carbon fibre.
my man trying to tell 3kg its HEAVY
What about the heating of leadded metal, will the vapour be toxic? Does the unleadded alloy have the same melting temperature is it gallium based? Also can this wishbone be used to replace car wishbones which are made of cast aluminium?
I'm a little annoyed that they didn't get into the metallurgy but gallium was my first guess. It's really the only metal that suits this application, since it's the only room temperature liquid phase metal besides mercury, but mercury would be impractical since you'd have to work at -40C.
I have been wanting to see something like this for years trying to figure out how to make complex induction tubes for boosted, engine applications or cold air intakes. Amazing.
Glad you liked it! It is an ideal application for this method.
VERY nice.
I started watching and subbed to the channel because of my love of recumbent trikes and hoping to 1 day build 1. The melt out metal core almost seems like it should be the holy grail for a lot of bike/trike frame builds. You could easily use a silicone plug whose size would slip out in order to reduce the amount of metal to get inserted.
Thanks for the comment Alan, I hope to do a velomobile build in the channel one day, I'm sure this method will come in handy for a lot of the parts!
Agree with @fightfanian The best composites instructional channel in You Tube
Having a company that not only offers excellent product, but stands behind them by providing the most accurate video material and support is a rare luxury.
Also, for all of us that moved out of the UK😢 the EU based warehouse is a blessing.
Can’t thank you guys enough for all the hard work 👍💪💪
I really appreciate your kind words, and thanks for supporting our guys in the Netherlands warehouse and making it the success that it is!
Great video. I would make a foam core for the wishbone, with some wire set into it. carbon fibre is brittle, so a bit risky for a safety component like a wishbone. The wire would (hopefully) stop it falling completely apart in a failure.
ETA: I didn't realise it was for a recumbent cycle, so maybe reinforcement isn't necessary.
You always have the best ideas! Freakin wood's metal! Brilliant! Even my 3d printed nylon or PC molds can handle wood's! I only do composites for RC planes, but your channel has singlehandedly upped my hobby level to pro, seriously.
You can also get a rough estimate of volume using your kitchen sink. Or your bath tub, if the part is too big. Fill it with water - enough to easily submerge the part - and mark the water line with a sharpie. Submerge the part, and mark the new water line. Remove the part, make sure the water line is back to the previous line, and measure the volume of water it takes to fill to the second mark.
It'll be inaccurate, but it can get by in a pinch. The ideal way of doing this is having a container in another container, where the smallest container is large enough to fit your part. You fill the smallest inner container to the brim with water, and submerge your part. It'll displace a volume of water equal to the volume of your part to the larger container, measure that and that's your volume.
could you 3d print a mandrel in PLA, wrap it using a 2 part epoxy, and then heat it to 60 or 70 c (higher than the glass transition temp of PLA), so that the pla could be removed easily? I know that the curing of the epoxy releases heat, but are there epoxies that cure without enough heat to deform PLA? (or say, PETG at 80ish c?)
PLA will deform but not drip out until 200+ 'c, and even then its sticky so wouldn't come out. There are PVA based dissolve-able filaments that you can print with and then dissolve with water. I want to try it someday.
@@ratgreen yeah, I didnt actually mean that it would drip out. I think for at least simple tubes and the like it could be deformed enough that one could pull it out in one big chunk.
Alternatively could you use a water soluble filament to print the internal structure to speed up the process and reduce waste and cost
Yes Water soluble filaments may work in some cases. In our experience, they seem to be hard to dissolve out but that may improve with new products over time.
"Hi, Paul here from Easy Composites.." Me, Smashing the Like Button!!!
Can't wait for a Formula Student team to try this technique on their suspension.
Challenge accepted!
Question: couldn’t you just 3d print a shape with PLA, wrap the part in CF, and then bake out the PLA?
I've been watching your videos for a few years, they're exactly why I first started watching YT. To be educated and inspired to make things. Really amazing 👍
This looks mega for some aero projects in Formula student. We often need aluminium inserts within layups for end plates and winglets. Would it be reasonable to jig aluminium inserts within the melting metal during casting, and have them left behind after the final melt?
I can't see a problem with that, the aluminum will not melt 🤣
What I love about mould making is the variety of techniques and options that are out there. Coming from a background of Glass casting I am automatically thinking of using the variety of Wax, moulding plaster and Clay, all of which could have their part in some parts of this type of work.
As always a SUPERB Video! Thank you very very much !
I'm watching this channel for many years, and you taught me so much. thanks! ♥
Incredible. This is like watching a video from the future, but it's now! What a time to be alive!
Your video demonstrates the time, materials, tools and equiped work space others have to put into making a component if you were paying someone else to make your component.
Value for money is not always understood.
Excellent work.
This was really cool. I love that low melt alloy stuff. Can't help but thing that if you could 3d print some lower melt plastic that is more fluid than tacky like then you could skip the alloy step 🤔
Thanks for the comment Astrix, we have done a lot of testing with printed mandrels, unfortunately there isn't anything out there that can withstand the temperature and pressure of the initial cure without distortion or collapse, even when the cure is below the theoretical HDT of the polymer. Be sure to let us know if you find one though!
I love the work you do. Awesome job!!
I thought this was about music 🙄
Easy composites lowkey is becoming my favourite RUclips channel !
Thanks for the comment, we replace hype with information! Plenty more to come!
I don't even work in manufacture but was both engaged until the end and able to follow the explanation with ease. Excellent video.
Your videos are so informative, thank you. I like making stuff and I think your channel has inspired me to start making composite parts
that's genuinely a great idea