@@chicosajovic7680 roughly 70% carbon to 30% resin by weight. These numbers vary by +/-2% based on the specific part, weave type, and fiber orientation in the part.
@@DarkAeroInc That seems a bit on the dry side. Have you ever tested this? I work with prepregs and the data sheets usually say about 60% fiber 40% resin (by weight).
I’ve just found your channel. I can’t believe how incredibly professional and thorough your work is. And I am even more impressed by your generosity in creating these professional videos and sharing your knowledge with the world.
I am full time in carbon Fiber manufacturing. Gayford Carbon Fiber Strad Violins. This is without a doubt one of the best intro's to carbon fiber videos I have seen. I can tell you have a mastery of the properties. Well done! I will start following your aircraft build as I have a Carbon fiber aircraft. A SkyArrow. PS I see you have two thumbs down, obviously some who think Carbon Fiber is spelled "Carbon Fibre" LOL
The United States is the only country where it’s called “called fiber.” The rest of the world writes it as “fibre.” Typical American thinking they’re always right 😂 And this is coming from an American
It’s like the difference between “cell phones” and “mobile phones”. The tech for cell phones was developed by what would become Qualcom in San Diego California USA. Equally, Carbon “fiber” developed for aircraft parts were developed by Douglas Aircraft and Lockheed Martin Aircraft in Southern California USA. Just because these materials and processes were eventually marketed to the World does not mean that their original names should not be respected
THANK YOU for stating what I've learned from years of composites experience - Test, test, and more testing!! The only way to verify results is to mechanically test EVERYTHING. Great overall presentation and thanks for mentioning fiber/resin compatibility as well - a hidden key to composites success or failure. If you've done coupon level testing on any of your laminates, I'd be very interested to know the mechanical properties you've been able to achieve.
Great stuff guys... As to other CF related content: I'd love to see the full infusion process for one of the more complex parts, all the technicals i.e. how-to in terms of vacuum specs, resin flow and saturation, baking, finishes/UV sealing or what have you. Alternatively, or rather additionally, I'd really like to see how you guys bond different parts together, for example the bulkheads and the airframe (and maybe how you bond your sandwich panels in the first place)? I'm also curios about the motor mounts or the fuel tank install, basically how you bond CF and metals.
Sorry I can't even pay attention to what you're saying, that profile view of DarkAero 1 looks sooooo good at 13 seconds in and I can't get it out of my head
When i saw the profile for the first time, I thought of the original Ford Mustang styling. Not sure if they’re even similar but something about it reminded me of the extremely appealing mustang design
Superb Video with Great Technical information that we have used in our Orthopaedic Laminating Procedures for our Patients, please keep putting them on RUclips so we can get the very best Prosthetic Builds for our Customers.
Thank you, this is amazing information. I just saw a custom carbonfiber lid made for a laptop, and the people saying that carbon fiber is cheap and parts are easily made for a 100 dollars, made my jaw drop, because it's not that easy... not all carbon fiber is equal, this video will help me teach a few people about it.
Can you guys go into the engineering process of designing an aircraft from scratch? Calculations, procedures, mindsets, etc. I dont have an engineering degree but I’m interested in designing my fixed wing drones like an engineer.
One of our objectives with creating this channel was to give more of a window into the process of engineering an airplane. The nitty gritty stuff is challenging to showcase in video so we created the DarkAero Knowledge Base to organize more of the engineering details. www.DarkAero.com/knowledge Thanks for watching!
@@DarkAeroInc thanks! I have a drone delivery company where i’m currently making my third prototype aircraft, a fixed wing VTOL using 4g telemetry with a 2m wingspan. I watch your videos because I love building aircraft, and hey, maybe I can take some design queues 😂. Thanks guys.
Perhaps a vid on various layup techniques in terms of the direction you might run the fibers in different scenarios (corners, flat plate surfaces, access holes curved parts), would be cool to see. Great stuff, guys. Subscribed earlier today! My uncle built (professional pilot) planes - Cub J-3, serial #1 1001-B0200, and has seen his work, so I really appreciate what you are doing!
A nice survey of carbon fiber composites. A video on how you meet part 23 certification requirements with regard to structural capability would be really informative, and specifically on the role of analysis in the certification. Nice work!
Thanks for taking the time to share what you have discovered. I have been dreaming about making my own plane for years but keep finding excuses. Your DarkAreo project is very inspiring. Thank you!
Awesome - my composites knowledge is limited to spat repairs on my RV-8, this is another level of information that really demonstrates your high level of expertise. I just wish you guys were in the UK.
I've been into carbon fiber for about 20 years and this has been a really fascinating video. Learned a lot here and everything was nice and clear. Great job
Thank you this was very informative as an aspiring aircraft kit designer. Not that I want a company. This is just for me. None the less, the information and the way you explained it is invaluable.
Most helpful 10 min. for my individual research about "carbon fibers in automotive" project for my thesis. Although this video is about on aerospace :) It was really detailed. -Thanks from Turkey
Ok, So I did watch your "Galvanic Corrosion episode" but I did not subscribe because I was new to YT. NOW I am watching DarkAero again and Subscribing for sure my friend! I've been researching to build a CF frame for my DIY motion Sim rig (works great, but now gotta lose the weight) Appreciate all your info ! DMAX motion sim channel
Great video! I found there is great variability in stiffness among different resins. Resin stiffness effects how securely the carbon fibers are held in place, and that significantly effects the overall strength of the composite. Could you please cover resin stiffness variables in a future video.
I’m new at carbon fibre as well, and we were making a part to split my cowl last week and noticed that the cowl was actually polyurethane, not epoxy and had to find a source for that type of resin. I would be curious to know the difference other than harshness of chemicals in the application process. We did a demo with the leftover resin to make it smoke and saw temps of 300F when adding too much hardener intentionally and the resin essentially burned itself and changed colours over about 15 mins. A discussion on ratios and how it affects strength and the chemical process that takes place when it cures would be fascinating.
Covered all the bases ,well done! I remember a comment by the teacher I had in an advanced composites course. “ If you get it wrong there will be a pissed off pilot” a voice from the back of the class “ But not for long!”...
In the 1950s the new wonder material was glass fibre. Lotus and Reliant made complete car bodies out of it. There were two adverse features of glass fibre. 1) the surface was prone to "crazing" under stress. 2) the uncured resin was horrible stuff to come into contact with. Is this also the case with carbon fibre?
Oh how I wish that I lived closed by you. I could learn so much from you guys. I design, build and fly radio controlled airplanes as a hobby for over forty years. I recently designed a 60 inches plane that the wooden main spar alone is over a pound. From previous experience I know that I need this size spar. But if I could figure out how to make a carbon fiber spar I can reduce that weight to half. But I learned a lot from your clip. Please keep up the good work, and happy landings!!!!
Your build is fascinating to follow and your knowedge and care is admirable. I have a couple of questions about repairability and survivability: I have heard of carbon fibre airframes being written-off after relatively minor damage, as localised repairs are not feasible in a pressure structure or in a dynamic component. A low speed runway overrun in a Premier jet with little obvious damage resulted in a write-off - and a well-publicized bird strike on the wing of a Premier1 jet which looked minor was deemed uneconomic to repair and the entire airframe was written-off. I realise that DA1 is not a pressurized aircraft, but it is fast. How would say, leading-edge or airframe damage from a bird strike be dealt with? Secondly, there's crash survivability. In the motor racing world, it was realised that carbon fibre can shatter on impact, creating dangerously sharp pieces - and designers had to protect occupants from this in the cockpit design.
Not planning to make anything from carbon fiber, so why did I find your video useful? I sure as hell enjoyed it though, as I have all your videos. I love what you're doing... that baby sure makes my juices run! Liked (of course) & Subscribed (way back). Keep it up thanks.
Love this information. What about Carbon Dyneema? Have you looked into this? Its supposedly 40% lighter and has absorbsion properties. Toyota uses it on the LMP1 racecars that they win LeMans with.
Thank you for these information rich videos. Clear and concise. I look forward to learning from many of your other videos. Quality content!--You've earned a new design engineering subscriber!
Please tell us more about testing range for different type of parts that are made up with carbon fiber,and also want to know about different method of stiffening it with resin. Btw this is really awesome stuff💛
Beautiful project. Question: Why the fixation with CF? Your performance numbers are extreme, but could you reach a bigger potential market by utilizing the one property that E glass excels at? (its extremely attractive cost).
The cost saving of E-Glass to CFK are smaller then you would think and usually only become significant in large scale production. The expensive thing about fiber reinforced plastics is the tooling, testing and manufacturing. The material cost only becomes significant in comparison when either the parts become huge or the numbers produced become large. Tooling and testing becomes less significant for large numbers as it usually is only done once, the manufacturing process scales linearly with production numbers. For a project such as this CFK has the edge - not only because it is the stiffer material, but also because it creates a certain customer appeal. Carbon Fiber is associated with luxury high performance vehicles. It is seen as an exclusive material choice. Glass always has the lame reputation of "cheap bumper repair shop material" or "the stuff they make these cheap and always leaky fishing boats out off" that it just can't shake. So I'd say, keep the carbon. The number of customers that get scared away by the slightly higher price will be lower then the number of customers that are lost to the use of "an inferior material". Before someone get's mad: I know that S-Glass has significant applications and is not inferior, but it's market perception sure is.
@@GermanTopGameTV I've toured a shop where a twin turbine powered off-shore boat that was primarily made from fiberglass had CF twill used as "paint" in the engine bay. It was supposed to add bling factor, but for me it added vomit factor.
@@GermanTopGameTV Glad you mentioned S-Glass. If you don't need the very high Young's modulus of carbon fiber, S-Glass is the way to go imo. And it is a far tougher and more durable material when it comes to impacts, abrasion, etc. And if you need the stiffness of carbon fiber, you can do 1 to 2 layers of carbon fiber first over the core, and then a layer of S-glass over the CF to save a bit on cost. As to saving money by improving strengths at low cost--I would encourage folks to look into making their own carbonized cellulose nanocrystals--sort of a like a more nature close version/form of carbon nanorods. If one does a thorough reading and search through the literature, you will realize that the average DIY'er can make this material at home for fairly cheap and fairly easily. And a little goes a long way with this stuff. You can add as little as 2% of the powder to the epoxy by weight to up various strengths. One of the tricks to getting good quality C-CNC material, is to start off with a base stock of cellulose that is already high in cellulose and more specfiically crystalline cellulose content. Industry uses a lot of waste wood and paper like sawdust etc, because it is very cheap and they process massive amounts of it to get the CNC. Such sources are lower in the crystalline cellulose than certain other sources like in a number of the fibers that are commonly used in apparel fabric/material (like hemp, linen, cotton, ramie) or non apparel but cheap fabric and cord/rope sources (jute). These typically range from 60 to nearly 70% crystalline cellulose content.
An important topic I don't see often on composites is best methodologies for bonding of sub assemblies. For instance, for a carbon fiber tub for a super car for instance, its obvious that they are made of several sub-assemblies that are bonded at critical joints. That may be a good topic for a video. Thanks!
Nice work on both the plane and the channel. Do you use spray adhesives to tack the dry cloth to 1) the mold, and 2) further layers of cloth, before infusion? If so, have you tested with/without spray adhesive to see whether stiffness is affected or delamination is a concern?
Thank for your articulate explanation. Every time I look at your project I wonder if there is a turbine that could be fitted up front. Perhaps your next design will have a high bypass turofan. Very exciting, guys. So no go on CF wheels? Bending seems better than shattering.
I would enjoy seeing you expand on the segment "TEST OR BE TESTED". How did you determine the size and shape of the coupons that you tested? And, how did you choose the particular type of test(s) that would provide you with useful data? What was your sample size? (The number of tests of the same material/process) And, for those of us who may not have the test equipment of our own, how would we find and select a test lab who would be suitable for this type of testing? And referring to a previous video, you mentioned that you are producing your own sheets or sandwich materials. How do your materials compared to the materials that you found commercially available?
How have you integrated metal in the weave for lightening protection? Could you show a video on how you've done that. I saw one video on laying a fiberglass sheets down but what kind of "metal layer" is supposed to be used and where do you buy it or how do you make it? THX
Chris, thanks for checking out the video! The target empty weight is 750 lbs. We have a ton of videos we are wanting to do. It’s tricky balancing making video updates and keeping progress going on the aircraft.
Hi. Excellent tutorial. Could you share a bit more about how many final parts (i.e wing, fuselage etc) you are manufacturing in the row. I assume there should be at least three because you need to test couple of them
Another great video guys. That definitely answered my question about CF weight. I’m taking Material Properties right now, and working on a project to test the properties of CF, aluminum and balsa wood. Tons of nerd fun haha. What’s the lightest part you’ve made?
The more I see from you, the more I rethink what my plan is. Not to be negative, but I’ve had a plane on my radar for several years that I’m starting to wonder about. The way you guys are approaching your project, well, let’s just say you can color me impressed. I feel safer with your project, too, because you’re recent students with the latest knowledge and you each have a specialty you’re bringing to this. Instead of one person calling the shots, this is a team effort; this has to be a good thing. If I put a deposit down, what number will I be? Thank you for your channel and your project.
Good video. Great info. But what about raw finished products with up protection? Clear gel coat(with up protection) or a 2k automotive clear? Do they even name Uv epoxy resins? I see a lot of cf parts yellow & tarnish. I know many companies make cf parts with polyester resin & no uv protection to keep costs down. I am referring to more of automotive parts. Do you recommend any epoxy resins?
Hay bro, Good information and I like your Channel very much much educative. I have a question on machining carbon fibre especial drilling what's is the best property for drilling and milling carbon fibre parts??
I know you can't give an exact answer, but do you anticipate being able to fly overweight? The Velocity SE has the same cabin width, around the same fuel burn, but 250lbs extra load capacity and an extra pair of seats. Full fuel weighs in at 460lbs (6lbs/g * 77g), 350lbs for a pilot and passenger and another 100lbs for luggage brings the load up to 910lbs. Throw in a nice IFR panel and some upholstery and it's an even 1000lbs. What's the limiting factor going to be? Landing gear (in which case an overweight takeoff might be ok, just not landing)? Wing loading? Structural rigidity and strength?
Why I became a fan of canard aircraft, especially after Burt Rutan explained that moving the tail wing from the rear, where it generates down force as pitch control, to the front as a canard wing, with lifting force in pitch control, is more efficient. The Piaggio/Ferrari Avanti might look like a catfish but it's a beautiful and efficient flying machine, and the SAAB Gripen, too.
@@charlesbranch4120 The irony is Rutan himself moved away from pure canard designs and switched over to hybrid designs with essentially a half-sized canard and horizontal stabilizers. In the year since I made this comment, and after doing quite a bit of research and thinking, I myself decided against building a canard-style aircraft. The efficiency of the canard isn't actually that much better. I'm guessing we read the same thing about the canard being a lifting device whereas horizontal stabilizers have to "push down" but it's not that simple, nor does the canard make that big of a difference. The safety aspects of canards are also overstated. Traditional designs can have stall characteristics just as benign as a canard, if not even better, AND you get flaps to lower your stall speed. My issues with the kit plane canards are: 1. Lack of lightning/static protection on the fiberglass airframe. Certified composite planes have a layer of copper mesh embedded near the surface and all sections are electrically bonded, which in effect creates a sort of faraday cage providing lightning protection and avoidance thanks to static wicks which help keep the electrical potential of the airframe the same as its surroundings. I would consider this absolutely critical for any IFR flying. 2. Lack of anti-ice. This isn't as big of an issue in some parts of the USA or the world, and I can forgive something like the Dark Aero for not having anti-ice. But a twin-engine canard that costs 350k+ to build? No, I'll take a second-hand Cirrus with TKS or an old Cessna 310 with de-ice boots over that. Also, canards reportedly don't carry ice very well, and the Rutan-inspired designs (e.g. Velocity) rely on laminar flow airfoils, even a little rime ice is bad news for those. And just generally the lack of certification. There are some kit planes I would still consider, like the Vans. They are aluminum, so lightning protection isn't a concern, and at their price point I don't expect anti-ice. There's also more of them flying than many certified designs, and it's a very old, very well-tested design. The Dark Aero is more like a flying motorcycle in my mind. If I were 10 years younger I'd be in line to build one. Heck, I almost got in their pre-order line a year ago, but I'm glad I didn't, because in the near future I'm going to need at least 3 seats, and for that same reason, I also care a lot more about safety now. The dream is for my startup to take off and afford a turbine someday, but reality is looking more like a 310 or maybe a Baron. Pressurization would be really nice, but for my mission profile at this time it's not really needed. Half of aviation is analysis and decision making, and that begins on the ground.
Did you guys use fibreglass seperation layers to avoid glavanic interactions with the carbon and metal parts? or Did you opt for another route like sacraficial anode?
Hello, thanks for a good educational video. What resin do you use for infusion? How many different resins do you use in the construction of this airplane?
At 3:59 note that the steel re-bar is in the middle of the slab, which is too high. It should be in the lower third to take advantage of the tensile strength of the steel. See KarbonBar for alternative to steel in concrete flatwork, such as in marine environments.
What are other interesting facts you have learned about carbon fiber? What aspects of carbon fiber would you like to learn more about?
I would be curious to see a detailed "how to" for infusion molding, drawing on what you outlined in this video.
What is the weight ratio of the carbon fiber to the resin for a finished part?
@@chicosajovic7680 roughly 70% carbon to 30% resin by weight. These numbers vary by +/-2% based on the specific part, weave type, and fiber orientation in the part.
Inserts ,fixings, etc and UV protection.
@@DarkAeroInc That seems a bit on the dry side. Have you ever tested this? I work with prepregs and the data sheets usually say about 60% fiber 40% resin (by weight).
I’ve just found your channel. I can’t believe how incredibly professional and thorough your work is. And I am even more impressed by your generosity in creating these professional videos and sharing your knowledge with the world.
Neil, thank you for the kind words and for checking out the channel! Glad the videos have been helpful!
Your methodical detailed design approach is admirable and impressive. Shows you have determination and patience required.
I am full time in carbon Fiber manufacturing. Gayford Carbon Fiber Strad Violins. This is without a doubt one of the best intro's to carbon fiber videos I have seen. I can tell you have a mastery of the properties. Well done! I will start following your aircraft build as I have a Carbon fiber aircraft. A SkyArrow. PS I see you have two thumbs down, obviously some who think Carbon Fiber is spelled "Carbon Fibre" LOL
I read your post as “gaylord” instead of “gayford” 😂
I mean, it is spelt fibre rest of the world. The most advanced composite and carbon fibre manufacturing facilities and technology are based in Europe.
The United States is the only country where it’s called “called fiber.” The rest of the world writes it as “fibre.” Typical American thinking they’re always right 😂 And this is coming from an American
It’s like the difference between “cell phones” and “mobile phones”. The tech for cell phones was developed by what would become Qualcom in San Diego California USA. Equally, Carbon “fiber” developed for aircraft parts were developed by Douglas Aircraft and Lockheed Martin Aircraft in Southern California USA. Just because these materials and processes were eventually marketed to the World does not mean that their original names should not be respected
THANK YOU for stating what I've learned from years of composites experience - Test, test, and more testing!! The only way to verify results is to mechanically test EVERYTHING. Great overall presentation and thanks for mentioning fiber/resin compatibility as well - a hidden key to composites success or failure. If you've done coupon level testing on any of your laminates, I'd be very interested to know the mechanical properties you've been able to achieve.
Thank you! Testing is key!
Imbok - do you do testing of carbon fiber sub assemblies today? Is that a service you offer? What is the fee?
Great stuff guys... As to other CF related content: I'd love to see the full infusion process for one of the more complex parts, all the technicals i.e. how-to in terms of vacuum specs, resin flow and saturation, baking, finishes/UV sealing or what have you. Alternatively, or rather additionally, I'd really like to see how you guys bond different parts together, for example the bulkheads and the airframe (and maybe how you bond your sandwich panels in the first place)? I'm also curios about the motor mounts or the fuel tank install, basically how you bond CF and metals.
They offer engineering and process consulting services, check out the consulting page on their website.
Best short summery so far I watched on yt regarding CFRP. Good job!
Can't wait to see it in person...must...find...cash....tree
Excellent presentation, I found it very useful. Thank you.
Sorry I can't even pay attention to what you're saying, that profile view of DarkAero 1 looks sooooo good at 13 seconds in and I can't get it out of my head
When i saw the profile for the first time, I thought of the original Ford Mustang styling. Not sure if they’re even similar but something about it reminded me of the extremely appealing mustang design
DART Aero > DARK Aero
This was very interesting and informative. I've been riding a carbon fiber bike for the last 15 years. Thank you.
Thanks for dipping into the weeds on the process and philosophy of carbon construction.
Superb Video with Great Technical information that we have used in our Orthopaedic Laminating Procedures for our Patients, please keep putting them on RUclips so we can get the very best Prosthetic Builds for our Customers.
Thank you for actually mentioning the more important factors vs the marketing nomenclature regurgitation most channels spit out.
This is a nearly perfect introduction to the technical details of carbon fiber parts components creation. Please do write a full book on this.
YES! Its like the engineering explained version that focuses just on carbon fiber and how to actually make stuff!
Very nice video! Presenting the big picture so clearly is not easy.
Fascinating subject and you did a fantastic, great video. Seriously guys, I place this at the top 1% of technical videos on RUclips. THANK YOU!
Dan, thank you for watching and for the kind words on the video! :)
Dan - we should see if @EngineeringExplained would give these guys a guest hosting spot!
Thank you, this is amazing information. I just saw a custom carbonfiber lid made for a laptop, and the people saying that carbon fiber is cheap and parts are easily made for a 100 dollars, made my jaw drop, because it's not that easy... not all carbon fiber is equal, this video will help me teach a few people about it.
Can you guys go into the engineering process of designing an aircraft from scratch? Calculations, procedures, mindsets, etc. I dont have an engineering degree but I’m interested in designing my fixed wing drones like an engineer.
One of our objectives with creating this channel was to give more of a window into the process of engineering an airplane. The nitty gritty stuff is challenging to showcase in video so we created the DarkAero Knowledge Base to organize more of the engineering details. www.DarkAero.com/knowledge Thanks for watching!
@@DarkAeroInc thanks! I have a drone delivery company where i’m currently making my third prototype aircraft, a fixed wing VTOL using 4g telemetry with a 2m wingspan. I watch your videos because I love building aircraft, and hey, maybe I can take some design queues 😂. Thanks guys.
Great video!!! It would be great if you could make a video about the different curing methods
Clear and helpful video for anyone who wants to learn more about carbon fiber. Keep up the good work
Thank you for watching and for the kind words! :)
If every teacher would be as good and clear as you guys, lerning would be joyfull!!!
Perhaps a vid on various layup techniques in terms of the direction you might run the fibers in different scenarios (corners, flat plate surfaces, access holes curved parts), would be cool to see. Great stuff, guys. Subscribed earlier today! My uncle built (professional pilot) planes - Cub J-3, serial #1 1001-B0200, and has seen his work, so I really appreciate what you are doing!
Thank you so much! I'm always impressed by your infusions :)
Thank you!
A nice survey of carbon fiber composites. A video on how you meet part 23 certification requirements with regard to structural capability would be really informative, and specifically on the role of analysis in the certification. Nice work!
Thanks for taking the time to share what you have discovered. I have been dreaming about making my own plane for years but keep finding excuses. Your DarkAreo project is very inspiring. Thank you!
Awesome - my composites knowledge is limited to spat repairs on my RV-8, this is another level of information that really demonstrates your high level of expertise. I just wish you guys were in the UK.
Extremely detailed and well informed video! I used to be on an aero team myself, all of this is legit. 👍🏼
I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL. PLEASE CONTINUE TO SHARE YOUR TRUTH.
I've been into carbon fiber for about 20 years and this has been a really fascinating video. Learned a lot here and everything was nice and clear. Great job
Very informative, accurate and relevant vid.
Thx, from France
Thank you this was very informative as an aspiring aircraft kit designer. Not that I want a company. This is just for me. None the less, the information and the way you explained it is invaluable.
Thank you for watching! :) Good luck in your kit aircraft designs! It's always exciting to see new designs take flight.
Most helpful 10 min. for my individual research about "carbon fibers in automotive" project for my thesis. Although this video is about on aerospace :) It was really detailed.
-Thanks from Turkey
Great video. Went from super simplification of carbon fiber all the way to the spec sheets.
You & your fellow engineers are amazing! Keep up the great work,we'll be watching. Thanks much for the insight!
Quality work! I’d love some more testing details. Process, Test conditions etc. Absolutely love your channel!!
I love what you guys are doing! Keep up the good work!
Thank you for checking it out! :)
Ok, So I did watch your "Galvanic Corrosion episode" but I did not subscribe because I was new to YT. NOW I am watching DarkAero again and Subscribing for sure my friend! I've been researching to build a CF frame for my DIY motion Sim rig (works great, but now gotta lose the weight) Appreciate all your info ! DMAX motion sim channel
Great video!
I found there is great variability in stiffness among different resins. Resin stiffness effects how securely the carbon fibers are held in place, and that significantly effects the overall strength of the composite.
Could you please cover resin stiffness variables in a future video.
Thanks for watching and the comment! Resins is a big topic so it probably is deserving of its own video. Thanks for the suggestion.
I’m new at carbon fibre as well, and we were making a part to split my cowl last week and noticed that the cowl was actually polyurethane, not epoxy and had to find a source for that type of resin. I would be curious to know the difference other than harshness of chemicals in the application process.
We did a demo with the leftover resin to make it smoke and saw temps of 300F when adding too much hardener intentionally and the resin essentially burned itself and changed colours over about 15 mins. A discussion on ratios and how it affects strength and the chemical process that takes place when it cures would be fascinating.
Covered all the bases ,well done! I remember a comment by the teacher I had in an advanced composites course. “ If you get it wrong there will be a pissed off pilot” a voice from the back of the class “ But not for long!”...
Very clear presentation. Thank you for sharing what you are learning and doing.
wow you knocked it out of the park on this video. thanks a ton
In the 1950s the new wonder material was glass fibre. Lotus and Reliant made complete car bodies out of it.
There were two adverse features of glass fibre.
1) the surface was prone to "crazing" under stress.
2) the uncured resin was horrible stuff to come into contact with.
Is this also the case with carbon fibre?
Thank you, absolutely great and informative video. One could only have hoped that OceanGate would have taken an as professional approach.
Well you could have touched on The orientation of the weaves of the material when you lay into the mould for the strength and flexibly of the parts.
Very.good, this is the best series of videos on CF I have found, thanks for doing this!
excellent video, well presented with all applicable points covered short and simple.
Fantastic project. Thanks for taking the time to share this with the world. 🇨🇦
Oh how I wish that I lived closed by you. I could learn so much from you guys. I design, build and fly radio controlled airplanes as a hobby for over forty years. I recently designed a 60 inches plane that the wooden main spar alone is over a pound. From previous experience I know that I need this size spar. But if I could figure out how to make a carbon fiber spar I can reduce that weight to half. But I learned a lot from your clip. Please keep up the good work, and happy landings!!!!
I have seen people use different size carbon fiber arrow for spars. The arrows come in many different sizes and stiffness.
Your build is fascinating to follow and your knowedge and care is admirable. I have a couple of questions about repairability and survivability: I have heard of carbon fibre airframes being written-off after relatively minor damage, as localised repairs are not feasible in a pressure structure or in a dynamic component. A low speed runway overrun in a Premier jet with little obvious damage resulted in a write-off - and a well-publicized bird strike on the wing of a Premier1 jet which looked minor was deemed uneconomic to repair and the entire airframe was written-off. I realise that DA1 is not a pressurized aircraft, but it is fast. How would say, leading-edge or airframe damage from a bird strike be dealt with? Secondly, there's crash survivability. In the motor racing world, it was realised that carbon fibre can shatter on impact, creating dangerously sharp pieces - and designers had to protect occupants from this in the cockpit design.
Thanks for sharing. Tonnes of information on carbon fiber here.
Not planning to make anything from carbon fiber, so why did I find your video useful? I sure as hell enjoyed it though, as I have all your videos.
I love what you're doing... that baby sure makes my juices run!
Liked (of course) & Subscribed (way back). Keep it up thanks.
Thanks John!
OUTSTANDING PRESENTATION!
What about the glass top 🤔 can make it from some kind of crystal clear 😊😊
Well done, content presentation, information provided. Very informative and interesting.
I'd love to see @Mike Patey build of your kits.
I'd like to see Mike Patey get a certificate action for the crap he pulled in Reno. You or I would have seen one! Politics....
Short but informative 👍🏽 thank you very much 🙏🏾
Love this information. What about Carbon Dyneema? Have you looked into this? Its supposedly 40% lighter and has absorbsion properties. Toyota uses it on the LMP1 racecars that they win LeMans with.
Thank you for these information rich videos. Clear and concise.
I look forward to learning from many of your other videos.
Quality content!--You've earned a new design engineering subscriber!
Great good video! All basic stuff but cold converted so everyone understands
Please tell us more about testing range for different type of parts that are made up with carbon fiber,and also want to know about different method of stiffening it with resin.
Btw this is really awesome stuff💛
Excellent general Engineering advice!
Beautiful project. Question: Why the fixation with CF? Your performance numbers are extreme, but could you reach a bigger potential market by utilizing the one property that E glass excels at? (its extremely attractive cost).
The cost saving of E-Glass to CFK are smaller then you would think and usually only become significant in large scale production. The expensive thing about fiber reinforced plastics is the tooling, testing and manufacturing. The material cost only becomes significant in comparison when either the parts become huge or the numbers produced become large. Tooling and testing becomes less significant for large numbers as it usually is only done once, the manufacturing process scales linearly with production numbers. For a project such as this CFK has the edge - not only because it is the stiffer material, but also because it creates a certain customer appeal. Carbon Fiber is associated with luxury high performance vehicles. It is seen as an exclusive material choice. Glass always has the lame reputation of "cheap bumper repair shop material" or "the stuff they make these cheap and always leaky fishing boats out off" that it just can't shake. So I'd say, keep the carbon. The number of customers that get scared away by the slightly higher price will be lower then the number of customers that are lost to the use of "an inferior material".
Before someone get's mad: I know that S-Glass has significant applications and is not inferior, but it's market perception sure is.
@@GermanTopGameTV I've toured a shop where a twin turbine powered off-shore boat that was primarily made from fiberglass had CF twill used as "paint" in the engine bay. It was supposed to add bling factor, but for me it added vomit factor.
@@GermanTopGameTV Glad you mentioned S-Glass. If you don't need the very high Young's modulus of carbon fiber, S-Glass is the way to go imo. And it is a far tougher and more durable material when it comes to impacts, abrasion, etc. And if you need the stiffness of carbon fiber, you can do 1 to 2 layers of carbon fiber first over the core, and then a layer of S-glass over the CF to save a bit on cost.
As to saving money by improving strengths at low cost--I would encourage folks to look into making their own carbonized cellulose nanocrystals--sort of a like a more nature close version/form of carbon nanorods. If one does a thorough reading and search through the literature, you will realize that the average DIY'er can make this material at home for fairly cheap and fairly easily. And a little goes a long way with this stuff. You can add as little as 2% of the powder to the epoxy by weight to up various strengths.
One of the tricks to getting good quality C-CNC material, is to start off with a base stock of cellulose that is already high in cellulose and more specfiically crystalline cellulose content. Industry uses a lot of waste wood and paper like sawdust etc, because it is very cheap and they process massive amounts of it to get the CNC. Such sources are lower in the crystalline cellulose than certain other sources like in a number of the fibers that are commonly used in apparel fabric/material (like hemp, linen, cotton, ramie) or non apparel but cheap fabric and cord/rope sources (jute). These typically range from 60 to nearly 70% crystalline cellulose content.
I work at Toray. It is definitely a unique process.
An important topic I don't see often on composites is best methodologies for bonding of sub assemblies. For instance, for a carbon fiber tub for a super car for instance, its obvious that they are made of several sub-assemblies that are bonded at critical joints. That may be a good topic for a video. Thanks!
Nice work on both the plane and the channel. Do you use spray adhesives to tack the dry cloth to 1) the mold, and 2) further layers of cloth, before infusion? If so, have you tested with/without spray adhesive to see whether stiffness is affected or delamination is a concern?
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! A MUST WATCH!!!
Thank for your articulate explanation. Every time I look at your project I wonder if there is a turbine that could be fitted up front. Perhaps your next design will have a high bypass turofan. Very exciting, guys.
So no go on CF wheels? Bending seems better than shattering.
Excellent videos ! Content is super !! Sir where do you recommend to buy resin that performs well on high temperature ?
Love watching your videos. Great work guys.
I know it can change, but when do you hope to start test taxis / flights?
Very cool. Thanks for sharing your knowledge gents.
I would enjoy seeing you expand on the segment "TEST OR BE TESTED". How did you determine the size and shape of the coupons that you tested? And, how did you choose the particular type of test(s) that would provide you with useful data? What was your sample size? (The number of tests of the same material/process)
And, for those of us who may not have the test equipment of our own, how would we find and select a test lab who would be suitable for this type of testing?
And referring to a previous video, you mentioned that you are producing your own sheets or sandwich materials. How do your materials compared to the materials that you found commercially available?
Great video! What cloth on your opinion has the best acoustic properties? I would love to build a carbon fibre double bass. Thanks
I’m looking forward to the future of aviation with great minds like this team getting the resources to make shifts in the aviation future.
Great presentation. Thanks!
How have you integrated metal in the weave for lightening protection? Could you show a video on how you've done that. I saw one video on laying a fiberglass sheets down but what kind of "metal layer" is supposed to be used and where do you buy it or how do you make it? THX
Thanks for the free CF education! I wish you great success. That appears to be a real slippery aircraft. Should do well on fuel consumption.
What a great video this is!
- Scrtchhhch, scrtchhh... (Mike Patey taking notes)
Great information, well presented!
What is the expected dry weight of your aircraft? Very interesting project really enjoying the videos. Need to put out more!
Chris, thanks for checking out the video! The target empty weight is 750 lbs. We have a ton of videos we are wanting to do. It’s tricky balancing making video updates and keeping progress going on the aircraft.
As always great and easy to understand info, keep it up 👍
Hi. Excellent tutorial. Could you share a bit more about how many final parts (i.e wing, fuselage etc) you are manufacturing in the row. I assume there should be at least three because you need to test couple of them
Another great video guys. That definitely answered my question about CF weight. I’m taking Material Properties right now, and working on a project to test the properties of CF, aluminum and balsa wood. Tons of nerd fun haha. What’s the lightest part you’ve made?
The more I see from you, the more I rethink what my plan is. Not to be negative, but I’ve had a plane on my radar for several years that I’m starting to wonder about. The way you guys are approaching your project, well, let’s just say you can color me impressed. I feel safer with your project, too, because you’re recent students with the latest knowledge and you each have a specialty you’re bringing to this. Instead of one person calling the shots, this is a team effort; this has to be a good thing. If I put a deposit down, what number will I be? Thank you for your channel and your project.
Thank you for watching and for the kind words! Send us an email at info@darkaero.com and we can provide more deposit details! :)
Question: Those "spikes" around the front of the windscreen, are they vortex generator to reduce lift/drag forces around the cabin?
Nelson, thanks for checking out the video. Those are just clecos holding the canopy in position. It still needs to be permanently bonded into place.
Good video. Great info. But what about raw finished products with up protection? Clear gel coat(with up protection) or a 2k automotive clear? Do they even name Uv epoxy resins? I see a lot of cf parts yellow & tarnish. I know many companies make cf parts with polyester resin & no uv protection to keep costs down. I am referring to more of automotive parts. Do you recommend any epoxy resins?
Thanks for the very insightful video!
beautiful plane! it is really coming along.
Hay bro,
Good information and I like your Channel very much much educative.
I have a question on machining carbon fibre especial drilling what's is the best property for drilling and milling carbon fibre parts??
Please share some videos of co -curing method composite
You guys keep impressing me.
Very good video.
Man, I can’t wait to see it being flight tested!
I know you can't give an exact answer, but do you anticipate being able to fly overweight? The Velocity SE has the same cabin width, around the same fuel burn, but 250lbs extra load capacity and an extra pair of seats. Full fuel weighs in at 460lbs (6lbs/g * 77g), 350lbs for a pilot and passenger and another 100lbs for luggage brings the load up to 910lbs. Throw in a nice IFR panel and some upholstery and it's an even 1000lbs.
What's the limiting factor going to be? Landing gear (in which case an overweight takeoff might be ok, just not landing)? Wing loading? Structural rigidity and strength?
Why I became a fan of canard aircraft, especially after Burt Rutan explained that moving the tail wing from the rear, where it generates down force as pitch control, to the front as a canard wing, with lifting force in pitch control, is more efficient. The Piaggio/Ferrari Avanti might look like a catfish but it's a beautiful and efficient flying machine, and the SAAB Gripen, too.
@@charlesbranch4120 The irony is Rutan himself moved away from pure canard designs and switched over to hybrid designs with essentially a half-sized canard and horizontal stabilizers. In the year since I made this comment, and after doing quite a bit of research and thinking, I myself decided against building a canard-style aircraft.
The efficiency of the canard isn't actually that much better. I'm guessing we read the same thing about the canard being a lifting device whereas horizontal stabilizers have to "push down" but it's not that simple, nor does the canard make that big of a difference. The safety aspects of canards are also overstated. Traditional designs can have stall characteristics just as benign as a canard, if not even better, AND you get flaps to lower your stall speed.
My issues with the kit plane canards are:
1. Lack of lightning/static protection on the fiberglass airframe. Certified composite planes have a layer of copper mesh embedded near the surface and all sections are electrically bonded, which in effect creates a sort of faraday cage providing lightning protection and avoidance thanks to static wicks which help keep the electrical potential of the airframe the same as its surroundings. I would consider this absolutely critical for any IFR flying.
2. Lack of anti-ice. This isn't as big of an issue in some parts of the USA or the world, and I can forgive something like the Dark Aero for not having anti-ice. But a twin-engine canard that costs 350k+ to build? No, I'll take a second-hand Cirrus with TKS or an old Cessna 310 with de-ice boots over that. Also, canards reportedly don't carry ice very well, and the Rutan-inspired designs (e.g. Velocity) rely on laminar flow airfoils, even a little rime ice is bad news for those.
And just generally the lack of certification. There are some kit planes I would still consider, like the Vans. They are aluminum, so lightning protection isn't a concern, and at their price point I don't expect anti-ice. There's also more of them flying than many certified designs, and it's a very old, very well-tested design.
The Dark Aero is more like a flying motorcycle in my mind. If I were 10 years younger I'd be in line to build one. Heck, I almost got in their pre-order line a year ago, but I'm glad I didn't, because in the near future I'm going to need at least 3 seats, and for that same reason, I also care a lot more about safety now. The dream is for my startup to take off and afford a turbine someday, but reality is looking more like a 310 or maybe a Baron. Pressurization would be really nice, but for my mission profile at this time it's not really needed. Half of aviation is analysis and decision making, and that begins on the ground.
tell us the epoxy u use.
Well presented! Thanks.
Outstanding info!
Did you guys use fibreglass seperation layers to avoid glavanic interactions with the carbon and metal parts? or Did you opt for another route like sacraficial anode?
Hello, thanks for a good educational video. What resin do you use for infusion? How many different resins do you use in the construction of this airplane?
At 3:59 note that the steel re-bar is in the middle of the slab, which is too high. It should be in the lower third to take advantage of the tensile strength of the steel. See KarbonBar for alternative to steel in concrete flatwork, such as in marine environments.