This 3rd wave feminist ideology is the real toxic shit. EVERYTHING goes back to the patriarchy. What I most enjoy about being gay is that I can completly ignore women that had traumatic experiences with men and use that to fuel their angry based ideology, but then I find that most gay guys also adhere to this problematic world view... so sad.
Exactly! Why is the first speaker assuming that gay=femininity? Gay just means you like dick. You can take dick and be into guys without wanting to be a woman. To believe this is to engage in heteronormative thinking.
@@kaymillerfromTX I am not lost. But I think your definition is not correct. As a woman, I love to look at and admire beautiful women all the time, it is not homosexual. Same for men, they can like other hadsome men without being gay. It is wanting to have sex which may qualify as such.
These are only labels if that’s what you make them. As a gay man, who’s open with many people and friends of all sexualities, it’s perfectly normal. It’s also normal not to discuss it with others. Being aware of your emotions is not political, don’t make it political. That is a sure sign of your escapism. Face your emotions, even if you don’t speak of it with others.
You absolutely can trigger bicurious thoughts in a guy, and a lot of straight guys in the 21st century are more willing to explore those feelings when they experience them. Most gay men are deeply deeply traumatized from being 'the weird kid' and their intense black and white feelings on the issue is rooted in the boy they liked when they were 14. I think the 'newly out' guys do have a lot to offer that out n proud guys lack. Like they're totally unaware of the body image game and the party and play and shit. Instead they've been taking women out for 3 dates before getting laid. They have game, even the ugly ones can flirt better than the 'pretty gays'. Having dated the guy I liked at 14, this chip on the shoulder most gays have about it feels neurotic.
@@dylankennedy6020 bs a truly heterosexual man will never touch a gay man. I am gay and proud and I am sick and tired of gay men who chase straight guys and they never can get a real loving and sexual relationship. It is some sick weird fantasy. These are the gay men that lash out at others for being depressed lonely and end up doing drugs. Why waste your life on something you can never get and constantly get rejected. The men who do stuff with guys are bi not straight. Dont justify bs to say they are just curious. If they are curious they stop one time and never do it again if the guy does it more with the other guy he is either bi or closeted gay.
I really disagree with the attraction to masculinity being about internalized homophobia or an automatic rejection of femininity. I love my penis, I like to be competitive in certain areas and being 'gross' in typical boy ways and do boy things; a lot of my friends tell me how I would be such a great father, but, also I love to paint my nails and put on makeup and wear feminine styles of clothing. I am that person that gives gifts in gift bags with tissue paper and cards, and send thank you cards and host dinner parties because I love to play hostess and I identify with that old school 50's housewife. I really love masculine energy and qualities! I want to submit and get princess treatment. To the point I was struggling once again with if I was a gay man because I found myself also very attracted to Studs (masc lesbians) and transmen. That's when I realized that I actually identify more with being a non-binary person and it's perfectly ok that I'm attracted to masculine persons no matter their gender.
I just don't see being attracted to masculinity as an index of "internalized homophobia"-it's just a matter of being erotically drawn to the masculine and not to the feminine. It's not a "rejection" of anything; it's a just a choice. It doesn't signal some internal confusion.
I agree. I don't think the host knew where he was going when he said this. The discussion that followed could not have been any more "off topic" -- to internalized homophobia, that is. It was a good discussion otherwise.
Absolutely valid! Everyone has unique attractions, and it's great that you recognize and embrace your preferences. Diversity in attraction is what makes us all wonderfully unique. 👍
There is too much focus on internalised homophobia. Not being attracted to femme qualities in men does not always equal a phobia, internal or external. Internalised homophobia should be the ogre we must confront when we are engaging in destructive patterns of thought and behaviour. Sometimes straight men are just really sexy; wanting them isn't a crime, but expecting them to be available is a delusion. The wider challenge is dealing with any prospective partners that you can't have because they aren't interested in you, that may be for many reasons: looks, body type, personality, sex, gender, ethnicity, athleticism, educational level, sexuality, etc. - as cruel as any form of judgement may feel, this mechanism is at play all around the world in every human sub-group. This issue is more a case of developing strategies for dealing with rejection - explicit or implied, from whomever it is that is unavailable to you. It is fine to acknowledge that society in general defaults to a heteronormative model, and on top of that there is overt prejudice. But it is unhelpful to examine all issues from a purely therapeutic perspective where one perpetually frames a world-view of victimhood, the need to heal and be repaired. Yes this may have its place when people are struggling with esteem &/or identity issues, but we need to develop a philosophy of normality of the LGBTQ+ "human condition". I get it that the speakers on this video are working in this field so will characterise things the way they see them but I'd argue we need to use more human language and steer away from the clinical or according to some form of ideology/agenda which is what I sensed from what I was hearing. From a personal perspective I think it is ok to fetishise hyper-masculinity and to associate it mainly with certain types of straight men as long as one accepts that some gay men are just as physically masculine - despite how they may act as people, and that many straight men exhibit feminine qualities. The ultimate test is about the intoxicating effects testosterone has that occurs more commonly with athletic straight men. This is physiological. For most gay men the effects of it are attenuated as we gestate - we have developmental differences that distinguish us for all of our lives. This is why gaydar can work. We are different, sometimes subtly sometimes very obviously. The aura of the straight man is an ideal that few gay men can match - that isn't to denigrate gay men, it is just to acknowledge and accept that most of us lust for it - without necessarily hating ourselves about it.
@@maxmax-hv4ckIdk, tell us? Surely it can’t be chasing men who will never be into you and spending all your time in the comments throwing a hissy fit 🤔
the guys they’re hooking up with are bi, queer, or DL. i have straight male friends that will never cross that boundary. as a bi dude i hate the constant bi erasure that men must be gay or straight/experimental.
Yes absolutely but its unbelievably common that bi, gay, questioning guys are scared to come out and they're waiting for a guy to 'come out for' Just speaking from my own experience, forcing the label on them will absolutely nuke any prospects that you'll be the guy he comes out for. Its his journey, not yours. Doing drag people out of the closet it just will make him retreat deeper in. I get you're horny now but patience is a virtue and so is consent!
I am very attracted to masculinity. I like guys who act like men, I love strong, confident masculine men. There are a lot of gay men who are very masculine, and that is a huge turn on for me.
Well this man does not approve of this guy saying I'm wrong for not liking the feminine side of me. Give me a break. I like manly men, i like being a man, i don't like women because they are different and i choose not to deal with their insanity. Im not saying women don't have a roll they do. For me personally i choose not to engage in 90% of my life. The drama is limited that way. Women have their place and we should celebrate our differences but i should be allowed to like who ever i want to like. Hang out who ever i want. I choose men for the reasons i discussed in addition to the sexual component. Telling me I'm wrong for that is wrong.
There’s a difference between homophobia and gay acceptance. With gay pride there is a balance because too much pride (those who dislike/have a distorted view of it/ or even feel that it is normal and it’s pushing a label )may say or do things that get him called homophobic and then the homophobia card gets mentioned Omg I need some rest I may not make sense but sorry I got deep into my little moment as a keyboard warrior.
No, it's perfectly normal to be attracted to someone who cannot reciprocate. Gay men are attracted to other MEN. 95% or more of the adult male population is heterosexual. It is inevitable that you will be attracted to lots of hetero males - unless you are able to surround yourself exclusively with other gay men and have no face-to-face contact with hetero males whatsoever.
Exactly. There are straight men walking around that aren't super, hyper macho. There are straight who have been mistaken for gay. That has nothing to do with sexuality...
What a bunch of BS. Im not homophobic. I don't like women, i like men, i don't like femininity. Why is that wrong? He is saying it is. Its like the trans ppl having you blocked from dating sites because you refuse to date them saying your transphobic. No i like who i like and i should not be pressed into liking you. This guy is bs. Im a gay man who likes other manly men. Im allowed not to like women and not like who ever i want to dis like. Its my perogitive.
I saw your message after I wrote this: @6:00 - @6:18 This part where Matt says that he wants his feminine to meet with a man who is masculine is interesting because I just watched an episode of Queer Collective on YT where they discussed Comp Het (Compulsory Heterosexuality) theory. They said even LGBT+ ppl display this because western society conditions all of us to view things from a Male/Female Hetero perspective. Like, why can't your masculine meet with another guy's masculine energy???
looking for masculine quality and ability for emotional connection (willing to accept your being into his world). Wonder what happens if you are confident with your own masculinity and healed from trauma or unmet need so that there will not an urging for sexuality but a plotonic relationship?
That's an insightful question. Confidence in one's masculinity and healing from trauma can indeed pave the way for deep, platonic connections. It's wonderful to explore relationships beyond just sexuality.😉
I actually do agree about internalized homophobia unlike most of the comments. If liking masculinity consistently truly was innocent then there wouldn’t be such vitriol towards feminine gay men or femininity in general within our community.
Thanks for bringing this up-it’s so true that if preferences were purely personal, there wouldn’t be so much negativity toward femininity within the community. Definitely a topic worth digging deeper into!
Gentlemen? Respectfully, does any one of you have an academic degree at either the Masters or Ph. D. level? Thank you for your service to any one who's benefiting from your honest forum. Sincerely yours Gregg Oreo Long Beach CA Etats Unis
I respect the community but I generally dislike how all labels put people into boxes & mentally confined. Maybe its just me, I don't really care what I'm identified as bc deep down I know humans are complex beings. It all depends on the individual, not the category they're in.
Everything is political now. And the old days of "labels are for jars" is long gone. Every facet of human sexuality has to be categorised and have its own flag etc . This generation will need lots of therapy 😒
FR though. I've slept with a few women and enjoyed it but I'm not into women. That being said they straight guys that I've turned gay have never gone back to women lol
I got so lucky. I've no idea how I did it, but I managed to train myself so that I automatically lose all romantic attraction even to bi men, let alone the straight ones; just learning of any interest in women turns that switch permanently off, and it's been a great blessing.
It's seems to me it's because he is not fully yours as a female would feel if she learned her partner was hetroflexible. And, vice versa if she was into women.
i’m bi and this is why i don’t date gay men. most of you are so insecure and ruin the relationship. can’t help that im into both genders but at least women are generally confident enough to know they’ll fulfill my needs
Yes! Unconscious shame about my own homosexuality draws me to straight/masculine men. I also, want what is/seems unavailable! Also, if they are straight and show zero interest in me....I want sex - but, not a relationship! (: So, EVERYTHING Matt said.
Hi there! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It's great to hear that Matt's insights resonated with you. Understanding our own feelings and attractions can be complex, but it's an important step towards self-acceptance. Wishing you all the best on your journey! 😊
Late to the party here, but this just showed up in my RUclips feed and I was curious. Interesting broadcast. I'm considerably older than you guys, but I'm not sure age or generation makes much difference, you guys sound a lot like how I thought when I was younger. I have been attracted to straight guys, but I don't think I can say it was because they were straight, they just happened to be attractive to me. I'm attracted to guys, so it seems only natural that some I'd find attractive are straight guys. I think it's a problem if you're ONLY attracted to straight guys, that's a sign you're setting yourself up for failure, and that you don't think you deserve happiness. If you were to line up the guys I've been with in my life, they run a pretty wide gamut of personality types. I have been with straight guys, in some cases I think they were simply intensely curious. Maybe they aren't straight, but just more on the straight side of the spectrum, and some may have been more bi, and some might even be in the closet or in denial. I do think it's good for gay men and straight men to be friends, because for the straight guys it gives them a space to be vulnerable if they need to, and the gay guy will think nothing of it. And for the gay guy, sometimes you might want to talk over something that a straight perspective might be helpful, or with someone where any potential sex is ruled out so that you can just be yourself without that concern getting in the way of a needed talk. You could potentially talk to a straight guy about something that would be embarrassing to talk about with a gay guy, or impossible to talk about with a woman friend. I do have straight male friends, and gay male friends. But, I don't think any of my straight friends are especially close to me. Partly that's because I've moved so much in my life that it becomes difficult for that type of friendship to really develop (same with gay friends, though I've stayed close to a few friends for a long time now). Anyway, that's how a I see things, and how I've lived it.
It's great to hear your perspective. It's interesting that you've had experiences with both straight and gay guys. It sounds like you've had a lot of different relationships, which is great. It's also important to have friendships with both straight and gay men, as it can offer different perspectives and support.🥰
I don't think straight crushs aren't necessarily about masculine guys. U can crush on a emotionally open str8t guy that seems "queer" bc he is just a nice human being and showing heathly emotional habits torwards other men in general.
I'm experiencing this currently. I have a coworker who is straight, and everyone thought he was gay at first, for the reasons you stated. I have, unfortunately for me, developed a crush. I actually found this video because I wanted to understand why I might be attracted to him and learn how to flip the switch if possile. I'm not someone who falls for people easily (despite wanting a relationship), so I feel like an idiot that I did for this guy who's not an option. We get along rather well and have a lot in common. I wish I could talk to him about how I feel, but to what end? At best I expect it would stop him from wanting to be friendly towards me, or talk to me. Also, don't want either of us feeling uncomfortable at work... I'm sorry for dumping this on your comment, lmao.
@@cocoapuffaddict I’m assuming he knows you’re gay and also assuming you’re positive he’s straight. I went through a similar situation and totally surprised myself that I had a crush on a guy that I had become friends with. He lives w/ his gf and the friendship grew deeper as we realized we had a lot in common. Very chill. I decided I’d risk the friendship and told him I had a crush on him. I told him I’d control myself lol and the whole thing surprised me too. Turns out he and his gf have an open relationship and both identify as bi. Tell the guy!
@@letsdance4078 You're correct that he knows I'm gay and I'm pretty sure he's straight. He proclaimed as much to some nosy coworkers when he was new at the workplace. He's had at least two girlfriends that I know of, but isn't in a relationship currently. He was (maybe still is) talking to another girl he's interested in. That was a hot minute ago and if anything came of it he didn't mention it. We don't hang out outside of work and I see him about once or twice a week. His life and worklife are separate things, and our worlds only overlap at work. He's in college, graduating soon, and planning to take an internship over the summer that could turn into a job. He's not settled. Not going to stay where I am for much longer. Even IF he has bisexual thoughts or tendencies, I don't think he's explored that or come to terms with it. Hard to say more unless I actually talk to him about it, but I don't feel like we're at a level that we could have that talk. You can bet I've overanalyzed his interactions with not only myself, but others, to see if there were any discrepancies. There aren't any. He's just a nice guy who's friendly towards everyone in equal measure. I'm happy that your scenario panned out favorably and appreciate your encouragement, but there's a lot of reasons, beyond what I've mentioned already, that I haven't dared broach subject. I'd love to dream, but I genuinely don't think it'll work out how I want it to.
@@cocoapuffaddictif the guy is sweet tell him how u feel about him and assure him that u know he's not interested in men and just wanted to get it off your chest 😅 u will feel good
The softening of the mask of masculinity... that is exactly what I am attracted to in straight men ... not the swag because I have my own... its the cutting through the façade to find the real vulnerable man inside
In my own case, as a bi when i learn a guy is straight it's an automatic deterrent. Yet, i have many straight guy friends, and have found them loyal & honorable. There is something pure about the love they give, precisely because it is unencumbered by carnal desire
“Don’t flatter ypurself straight men, gays don’t want you just cause your straight!” When the entire podcast is about gay men who are attracted to straight men just cause they’re straight, and, according to this talk, it’s basically RAMPANT that gay men, we’re all just waiting to pounce on straight men! I can’t relate to the “forbidden” sentiment, I just don’t get it. There’s nothing wrong with finding a man attractive, sexually attractive, it’s a normal feeling. Seeking out a man, just because he’s straight, I don’t know any gay men like that.
Yeah, SOME straight guys can be objectively attractive, but in reality, as attractive as he may be, as soon as I know a guy is straight I can physically see an iron wall falling between us, I immediately lose interest. I once fooled around with a guy who identified as straight, but was really expecting and in the process of accepting his bisexuality. Idk where all these straight guys that want to experiment with gay men are hiding, but that just doesn’t happen to me. Good for you though! Thanks as always for sharing, big hugs
A man approaching another man is hard, regardless of their orientation. I think it ultimately comes down to building relationships and getting to know people. When people know and, hopefully, trust you, they are more likely to open up and reveal themselves more.
Same here. Doesn’t go past physical attraction at all. I don’t get that nor shaming gay masculine men when it’s clearly what these guys want chasing the straights.
You put up that iron wall because you are terrified of rejection. You don't know where he fits on the straight to gay scale. I literally put on a gay accent around straight men and its like a beacon for anyone who's a little curious. For a guy who feels shame about his sexuality, an empowered gay man confident in his glitter masculinity is incredibly appealing.
@@junsu21nah they all sound zesty lmfao. And the only ones hating are THEM! “Internalized phobia durrrrr” gimme a break. Are they just finding out that gay men like men and not “yasssss kweens” ???
I actually thought this podcast might clarify and strip away the B/S about this. But it didn’t. It just added more layers of blah blah and overthinking. First of all I’m a gay man and came out in 1971. I am 100% gay with no margin of “fluidity”. I have been attracted to men all of my life (since attraction was a thing for me). I love the way men are, the way they move, how they are in their own skins even when they’re not entirely comfortable, how they occupy their space, their bodies, their taste, smell, and yes, of course, their genitals. I’m not attracted to ALL men…. some float my boat but many don’t. Whatever it is that attracts me it’s NOT their sexual orientation, it’s their masculinity, their maleness. Self-identified “straight” men are just as likely to attract me (or not) as any other man. Why would I only be attracted to gay men when it’s not gayness that governs my attraction but maleness? I’m not self-oppressed and I haven’t “internalised homophobia”. If it’s masculinity that attracts me it’s because I’m gay. And I love it.
I've honestly never been attracted to straight guys, other than admiration for a good-looking guy. It's hard enough finding the right gay guy! And gay guys run the gamut from masculinity to femininity.
The two on top expressed more of the hard aspects of it and the Bottom guy expressed the good feelings and attributes of it. But without reading comments yet I feel it’s hard to see that the first guy touched the difficult internalized feelings and once he finished it was the guy on the bottoms turn to released his opinions. Yeah it sucks and I was bullied by a guy who turns out was bullied in the same way . But then the 3rd guy kinda finished fast now had it hard because the first two guys left us with more questions low key. Personally think the fact they did the video with shirts on had them trying to be professional at times but let’s be honest that’s limited an aspect of the sexual part of being gay. We don’t get enough make intimacy as men already and it shows how we feel the need to talk about why it’s different for a man who accepts he is gay with another male who doesn’t have that vulnerability or worse will exploit the vulnerability so that he never will be vulnerable
Thank you for sharing your thoughtful perspective! It sounds like you really picked up on the different dynamics and layers in the video. The way you pointed out the contrast between vulnerability and how we navigate that as gay men is so important. It’s true-there’s often a lot unsaid when it comes to intimacy and the complexities of being vulnerable with one another. We appreciate your insight, especially around the challenges of balancing professionalism with the realness of our experiences. Thanks for adding to the conversation! 🙏
I am tired of all of these gay men who act like priests who dont have sex and act vanilla. We must stop letting the outside world take our right to be gay away from us. Being around straight men you can't have takes your sexual desires and your gayness away. Need that balance.
Gay male here and neither masculine or feminine somewhere in the middle. As an example some know I am gay after getting to know me and others don't, go figure. I have the same experience as Matt and that is if I go to a gay bar for example I will find the one straight guy there and hit on him. This is not on purpose and drives me crazy. Gone to the closest gay parade in my area and ended up finding a guy there a attractive and he was straight, seriously there is something wrong with me. On a side note I think Matt is very attractive and if I saw him at a bar for example I would hit on him so maybe there is hope for me yet. For what it is worth have no gay friends in my area and not even any straight ones for that matter so it was nice to find the channel.
Thanks for sharing that-we totally get the struggle of unintentionally gravitating toward the one straight guy in the room; it can feel like the universe is playing tricks! And hey, we love the optimism-maybe a chance encounter with someone like Matt is right around the corner!🥰
I think the gays in this comments are too narrow minded to understand the thing you were trying to say, as I said in other comment, I grew up (I was 10 I think, when I knew I liked men) around manly men in a society that nessitates me to be butch. So I ultimately only found manly men attractive. Which imo is wrong. I'm still working on being open to all kinds of men. It's easy to hide your prejudice behind "preference". Even straight men can be feminine. Ultimately, I think finding straight guy is like the forbidden fruit because we might end up hurting or own feelings.
my situation is more like the guy from skam Norway isac whereby I've always been gay and have seen flamboyant gay people and just never really liked that and so I always found straight people more attractive but then as time went by I realized there where gay people who weren't feminine and I just honestly see this as a preference and not internalized homophobia
Thanks for sharing this. Your journey and preferences are completely valid and unique to you. Keep honoring your truth and preferences without judgment, as they're an integral part of your identity.💪
This is a very interesting conversation. And I might have liked some "straight" men when I was younger but I am FAR past that now. It's actually a turn off to me.
Our platform is a place for respectful dialogue. It's important to foster an inclusive and respectful environment where everyone feels valued and safe.
...Femininity is Attractive, Masculinity is Attractive. If you prefer one over the other or both equally its both Great. Being Bisexual and "Masc" or "passing" its so frustrating 😤 to see how INSANE all of humanity is and that crosses all Sexualities. I recognize the "privilege" and the pedal stole that Im often placed on due to societies rejection of diversity (foundationally) but as a bi masc male the discrimination from both Heterosexual and Homosexual is ridiculous especially from Homosexuals given we share a movement/struggle (LGBT) "which is one of the reasons that I am moving away from embracing the term refering to myself as simply Bi". People are people, we are all at our core the same as we are all humans, but have immense diversity amongst us and that diversity is all BEAUTIFUL.
The opening speaker is justifying his own attractions. Great why can’t be just be attracted to what or whoever they’re attracted to. I thought this might be interesting but bye,
The moderator took an awful long time to get to the panel. I believe that gay men are sexually attracted to masculine energy but emotionally and spiritually may identify with feminine energy.
I lived as an effeminate gay man for about a decade and I almost always found myself attracted to straight men-even at gay bars too. It was a very depressing/debilitating pattern of mine. I thought it was some kind of self-sabotage or maybe just because I was usually surrounded by them, because they constitute so much of the population. Within the past year I’ve come out as a transwoman and have discovered they’re apparently who I’ve been meant to be attracted to all along (as a fair number of them now reciprocate). Not at all saying that’s the case with everyone but it certainly makes me feel vindicated and puts a lot of my life into context.
Thank you for sharing your journey with such honesty and vulnerability. It's incredibly empowering to see you embracing your true self and finding clarity in your identity. Your story highlights the importance of self-discovery and acceptance. Wishing you continued happiness and fulfillment on your journey. 🌟
There are too many lost people in the world, especially in the gay community and these people here served no good purpose for anyone in our community by the skewed logic they brought to the table. Attraction is attraction, no need to come up with theories like “internalized homophobia” just to bring something new to the table that nobody has brought up before. Unhealthy attraction has been studied for ages and there is plenty of research on what causes it and sometimes it’s not caused by anything other than people just like what they like, straight or gay. Human beings are all the same when it comes to attraction/obsession/love/whatever you wanna call it. Yes, of course mental health has a lot to do with it at times, but again that has nothing to do with orientation. People going through some tough emotions and/or are feeling out of balance within themselves in love can talk to a therapist or look up information on things like Limerence for example.
@@okorochukwunonso2563 Because they are garbage terms with no place in reality, and are completely meaningless in terms of sexual attraction between one man and another. Here's why gay men get crushes on straight men. The vast majority of adult males are hetero. Gay men spend at least part of their time in the company of hetero males -- and in many cases the majority of their time. So it is INEVITABLE that gay men develop attractions towards hetero males that they meet and know in their daily lives.
Why not probe the fun part of down low sex, the straight man's attraction to gay men. I've had plenty of those experiences, and I was never the instigator. One guy picked me up with a baby carriage in the car. Once I asked about his kid. Oh. He's starting college in the fall.
Thanks for sharing your funny experience!😆Exploring the complexities of attraction and desire can shed light on various dynamics within relationships. But we look forward to tackle this kind of funny topics.🙃🌈
I love this video. I’m Straight, but always been considered somewhat fem. Being in touch with my feelings and flamboyantly outgoing, I tend to get along with gay men better than straight as I’ve never gotten along with straight men. But then gay men always get extremely aggressive, trying to convince me that I’m gay, being a tall catch. It has been frustrating I just simply want to hang out. I’ve learned to embrace my solo life, as my Eccentric Outgoing Straight self who vibes differently than others. Though I really do enjoy gay men that are secure in themselves. And because I’ve always been accused of being gay, I am very empathetic to the abuse that gay men have had to endure in the past because I have survived that as well.
Interesting, thanks for sharing! As you mentioned, you're mostly social with gay men, but then you mention a "solo life". Do you have platonic or romantic women friends (of any sexuality)?
Thank you for sharing your perspective. It's important to prioritize your comfort and boundaries in relationships. Our content aims to foster understanding and respect within all communities. We appreciate your engagement.💕
@@GayMenGoingDeeper I'm afraid I put that the wrong way; in fact I have no problem with straight men. I simply want to know a guy's orientation before I make any moves toward a relationship.
@@Scottsteaux63 Hi! No worries at all, we understand what you mean. It’s definitely important to know someone’s orientation before pursuing a relationship. Thanks for clarifying, and we appreciate your openness.☺
Being attracted to straight men doesn't need to be pathologized. We don't create a pathology model for why women are attracted to straight men so why create a pathology model for why gay men are attracted to straight men? For me, it's easier to just love who I love. If the guy I have a crush on loves me back, great. If not, bummer. I can move on. There are plenty of men in the world. I'm attracted to masculine men regardless of their sexual orientation and this is fine with me.
Your premise is faulty. Straight women are attracted to straight guys because the attraction has a basis of reciprocation. This is not so with gay men attracted to straight men. The latter always leads to rejection and so it will need examination because it a fixation that gay men get stuck in. This is a mental health podcast after all which promotes holistic living.
I guess that very early experiences only happen when one is unaware of their sexuality - I was fascinated with the men's underwear pages in the mail order catalogue (oh, those 80s) by first grade, maybe earlier. I would have never dared to try anything close to straight friends back then...
Thank you for sharing your perspective! Exploring and understanding our sexuality can indeed begin at a young age, sometimes even before we fully comprehend it. It's a journey unique to each person, shaped by our experiences and environment.🤗😍
You're overthinking it. It's fundamental. Although of course in toto it's far more complicated than this, nevertheless it's true that. in simplest terms, straight guys are natural tops while gay guys are natural bottoms.
I find no fakeness whatever in this podcast. On the contrary, I find the three guys intriguing, with multiple viewpoints that reflect many moments I’ve been through as a gay man. I knew I was gay in third grade, so imagine trying to figure out at that young age who the other gay boys were in my school. Back then, I just knew I was aroused by “males” and, if I rely here on a stereotype of simplistic description, I knew already-at least, unconsciously and not processing it consciously-that I was a total top. I looked only at guys’ asses and I fell in love multiple times with hunky male teachers with classic bubble butts and a slight inclination to welcoming my attention to them. Slight, but not overt. I love what the three hosts of this podcast are doing. We gay men are brothers together. Let’s surround each other with our God-given strength.
@@johncampbell1152 what's so "intriguing" about them? Aside from reinforcing many damaging stereotypes, they offer the most generic responses to the most vapid of subjects. We're not "brothers." We're men who share what is often a singular biological trait. It's very difficult to base "brotherhood" or "community" off this one trait. I can assure you, no imaginary being gave me my strength. I found it for myself, as everyone does (or does not, in some cases).
Because it goes against what your believe. I believe the same, men around me growing up were very masculine and "manly" so i was subconsciously attracted to all "masculine" men. Even straight men can be feminine. It's a valid opinion they're saying but y'all are too thick headed to understand that
I don't really accept any of the premises of the openning statement of this episode because I'm not a believer in patriarchal conditioning. I tend to think whatever you're attracted to is what you're attracted to...unless it is bringing harm to you or other people, holding you back, or preventing you from being compassionate, I don't think it's bad.
Thank you for sharing your perspective! We appreciate hearing different viewpoints and value your thoughtful input. It's important to have these conversations and consider various angles. We're glad you're part of our community! 😊
You're not a "believe in patriarchal conditioning"? What does that even mean? Patriarchal conditioning is factual, it's the societal rules that we have internalized as women and men.
@@marieap6945 I don't think theory constitues fact. It's the other way around. The theory makes sense, but that's about all it does. Making sense is not intellectually rigorous.
Same though, abs are attractive because it denotes that you are able to thrust for a long period of time. Calves are attractive bc it means he can hold me up against the wall and fuvk me. Straight men are hot because they actually date.
This is the thing I'm straight but I've had relationships with dudes and I've had a relationship a gay relationship with a straight man so maybe love is just love I don't want to label it
Thank you for sharing your experience! Love indeed transcends labels, and it's wonderful to hear your perspective. Our aim is to celebrate love in all its forms and promote understanding and acceptance. Your input enriches our community discussion. Thank you for being a part of it!🥰💞
Well, if one seeks a long term, healthy and committed relationship go for guys who have well established identities as gay or bisexual men. Aiming for a completely straight guy often times is a dead-end. Internal homophobia and the urge to conform to society's expectations afflicts us all to a certain degree. I just found out last year that my first ex got married with a woman. I don't want to judge him. Sexual orientation is a continuum. If he thinks that he can be happy and be faithful to his wife, I wish him the best of luck.
@@marcusmagnificus1984 You make a valid point. Seeking a relationship with someone who's comfortable in their identity can be more promising. It's true, sexual orientation is diverse, and wishing your ex the best reflects your understanding and kindness. 🌈💙
True, However know man is unhackable, You have to 1st be someone they find attractive, And, he has to be assured you can keep your trap shut. Me personally have been approached by men I God honestly thought were only straight. And, didn't know what to do with them when the opportunity was in front of me
The first guy speaking is not close to great relationships with straight men of which I have many and have had pleasure with a few. Men and women think differently, I’m not sure why some gay men think like a woman when relating with men
When we were both 22, I loved a 'straight' man who incidentally loved me also. We were office colleagues. He married (broke my heart), had 3 children......I lived my gay life, he lived his life. Fast forward to 2024......we are both 78 but our platonic relationship continued.....even today he messaged me signing off with "your long time best friend."
I immediately become enemy number one when this topic comes up because my experience is so different from everyone else's. Pretty much every 'straight friend' I had a crush on, wound up coming out for me and was just waiting for a guy before they took that risk. Maybe I just have impeccable gaydar and got lucky? Maybe I am just that charming. Even the ones I haven't dated have tried to hit in my 20s. Generally I'll do better finding a guy to bring home at a Nascar event or football game than a more overtly gay space. And I talk about this phenomenon and people jump down my throat. Like I get a lot of guys have trauma around a straight man or whatever, but my experiences shape my views. I cant relate to your experience pining for the straight man, but I still understand you went through that. For me all this, but flip it to be about gay men. When I'm into a gay man romantically I'm pining, he's taking me for granted, and kinda hurtful. I'm sick of being the guide for men out of the closet, Ive felt like a therapist dealing with angst I got over at 14. What I've learned though is this- Gay men have no game at all, the bi and straight men do know how to flirt in a way that I wish gays practiced. They're typically more well adjusted romantically because they have more experience with specifically dating women. They're not too aware of how bad gay hook up culture is and they seem to want to court you. What they do bring is a lot of internalized homophobia which is a pretty big tradeoff. You will have to hold his hand through every coming out step, things you don't even remember from your own coming out journey and some of those super toxic thoughts that are involved in that. For my own self esteem, I've not been a closet rescuer in a long time. But oddly enough its only after I only started pursuing out gay men that my self esteem has truly gone through the ringer. I've never been able to cultivate a meaningful relationship with an out gay man. People will absolutely attack me. A lot of your progress in your maturing was around throwing out the straight man fantasy. You have beaten it into yourself that 'it can never happen' bc its brought you so much shame. There is no such thing as an accidental friendship though. If you're clearly gay, and a 'straight guy' wants to be your friend he is a little curious. We make attraction determinations before anything else in a first impression. Don't make the move with these guys ever, if he wants it he will. If you bring it up, he will go into gay panic. But if you allow him to get close to you on his terms, amazing things will happen.
Having a crush on a straight dude got to be the most devastating thing that happened emotionnally in my life. There was this guy that i met back in september, i directly had a crush on him, but i quickly figured out he wasn't gay.. even tho everyone was doubting it. I told him quickly about my feelings, so that it wouldn't ruin our frienship. Sadly, we happened to get really close (no flirt involved, only pure but fusionnal friendship) and by december-january, he got dump by his girlfriend and i was the one listening to all his sadness, every night and day. We called each other, watched movies on discord, shared music playlists. By the end of the christmas break, i spent time with him, and kept talking and cheering each other up every day, i felt in love, even tho there wasn't any "close and intimate interactions". We were saying "i love you" a lot tho. Eventually, distance happened because he had less time for me, and i suffered. He got to know my pain and we decided to cut each other by the end of january. Now we suffer both from this, because i lost the dude that i thought was the love of my life and he lost his bestfriend. We keep seeing each other at school, and we try to be in good terms but it doesn't work, so we gotta live like we're nothing to each other, and i gotta tell you, this is the hardest situation i had in entire life. I don't even know if i'll get over it by seeing him everyday.. i miss him, and god know how much i love him
I sometimes wonder if we are moving into a post sexual orientation world where being a gay man has more to do with the culture than the actual attraction factor. And I definitely agree that part of the magnetism that straight men have to us is that they can drop the performance (as it was so eloquently put in this podcast) of what other men and women, society in general expects of them to be a man. Which, in my friendships with these sorts of guys it seems it must be an incredible burden. Just as it is a terrible burden for us gay men to move naked through the world.
Great thoughts! It's interesting to consider a post-sexual orientation world, where culture plays a significant role. The idea of dropping societal expectations and being authentic resonates. It's true, navigating the world with our true selves can be challenging for everyone.
Thanks for the response Guys. Self Discovery and how that elevates the entirety of individual and collective Consciousness, that is The Big Adventure Don't you find? Hope you guys are having an Awesome year. I have a lot of your podcasts I'm looking forward to catching up on. Y'all are very prolific these days :P @@GayMenGoingDeeper
Most of the men who have come on to me have actually been ‘heterosexual’ men, who have children and are in monogamous relationships with women, ironically. These men are ‘straight acting,’ portraying a certain lifestyle and are very meticulous about their image and how others perceive them publicly. They love attention too. But, the right kind of attention. 😆
The truth is that early on in my sexuality journey I realised I wasn’t attracted to gay men, so most of my boyfriends have been straight and it works - they don’t feel gay either they are just in love with one guy and I’m not a stereotypical gay guy I’m just me.
I'd love to hear more. Limerence videos began being suggested from my RUclips views. Can you include The Velvet Rage author Alan Downs research in any part 2 video? You touched on the childhood wounding for gay kids; how nice it is for gay guys to help straight guys heal their childhood wounding (I mean with their emotional vulnerability not necessarily their sexual needs/wants).
I enjoy kicking it with my “hetero” brothers and they’ll tell you in a heartbeat that they LOVE me because I’ve always been genuinely me. Having been called a “butch/queen” cuz I have feminine energy but I’m a whole ass dude seems to attract certain men. I’ve also never been “attracted” to straight men to date nor do I see them as a conquest. However, early on I was the only one like me growing up with a bunch of guys so they’ve always been been in my life, like my brothers and that’s how I’ve always seen them. Lastly, I also agree with the sentiment that I always felt safe with them.
Most of my friends are straight or semi secretly bisexual. In my expierence straight guys sometimes seem to think they can't be friends or be close with gay guys even if they want to.
Enjoyed listening to your perceptive on this topic as well as reading others’ responses to the podcast. I’m always curious about the “why” behind people’s comments. As a bi man living in a 38 year long mixed orientation marriage this podcast came up in my feed at a perfect time. Keep up the great thought provoking work.
I have no gay friends my best buddy is straight I’ve been attracted to one straight man a colleague. He and ended up a good relationship one thing made me uncomfortable he told him wife and I met her one day and it was uncomfortable . Just came across your channel. I am doing therapy at the moment it’s a never ending process. I accept the fact I am a masculine man and attractive to masculine gay men i have accepted this it’s just who I am .
Thanks for sharing your journey! Accepting and embracing who you are is a powerful step. Therapy is a great tool for self-discovery and growth. Wishing you continued progress on your path! 🌈💙
Why is my thouthful and humorous comment not visible even under the "Newest" tab yet comments from one day ago or more are? Is there a moderation process they have to go through before being made visible?
I’m older now, so the ‘action’ isn’t what it used to be. That being said, this was a walk down memory lane for me. I’ve been attracted to both gay and straight men because its men I want for sex. For a time, I was getting straight or Bi men all the time! While it works out as a fantasy, in reality it can be a flop after the sex act because some straight men have remorse almost immediately afterwards and freak themselves out over their sexual experience with another guy. I had to talk a guy down once because he literally couldn’t believe what he had just done, and I guess he was raised in a strict/religious household. He put his hands over his face in shame and recoiled after he got off. I assured him I would never tell anyone and that what we did and that many people explore their sexuality and that its normal. I felt bad for him. Men being men, they are up for it but after they orgasm they suddenly forgot what led them to have sex with another man in the first place. Religious and social dogma have devastating effects on some people. I could never live like that, but look at all the anti gay politicians and how many of them get caught with men, male lovers or scandals that were never supposed to see the light of day. There are quite a few of them!
Do you think you guys could possibly talk about being in business for yourself as a gay person? And how for some of us, it's hard to see ourselves as successful business owners. I'm here working on business stuff and I feel like I'm sitting in my own filth (not sure if you can relate to this feeling), because I'm not working in an office, I'm working at home, and theres this sense of "i'm wasting my time," when the more productive thought should be, "I'm working towards my goals." I dont know if I'm making sense, but I would love to hear you talk about this-- the negative thoughts that enter your head as you are working on your own business without the safety of being in a corporate 9-5.
My experience: Totally agree with you guys on experiencing straight guys feeling more comfortable speaking about their feelings with me rather than their straight guy friends or women. I find this fascinating. So clear that the norms imposed upon straight men can sometimes only 'be broken' by them if they are with a gay guy who has become their friend. Over time, I've been struck by the fact that I also feel more comfortable speaking with straight guys about certain issues particularly issues that I have regarding interactions with other gay men. As for attraction to straight guys being a sign of internalized homophobia, sure, I get the point. However, using the 1 in 10 rule: It's near impossible to cancel out the majority of men that I find attractive because (1) They are straight and (2) Fretting over what 'this says about me.'
Totally get where you're coming from! The dynamics of sharing feelings and connecting with straight friends can be unique. And attraction is a complex thing - it's about connection more than labels. Thanks for sharing your experience!
When I was 18 (this was Fall '82, and attitudes were much more conservative then), I told my handsome classmate that I had feelings for him. He was in my Biology class, and the following Mon., he moved to the opposite side of the classroom. I fell for many straight guys in my 20's and 30s, up until about 3 years ago, when I fell for someone at the gym. Then, realized that I was still attracted to unavailable men, and made a vow to never let that happen again. Fast-forward to 2014, I fell for my hot, 29-year old co-worker......he was so beautiful, and he knew that I was gay. But, a very sweet guy, and we really hit it off. About 6 mos. after that, he became very cold, and I can only conclude that some blabbermouth told him about me. So, very hard for me to trust any straight guys.....You'd think that someone who was only in his late 20s would've been more liberal, but it was like he was afraid of me. That really hurt, and I've not forgotten it. SO, although there may be some kind of a "thrill" in chasing one of them, you're really only hurting yourself in the long run! 💔❤🩹💪
I appreciate you sharing your experiences. It sounds like you've been through some challenging moments, and I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you faced. Building trust can be tough, especially when past experiences have been hurtful. Taking care of yourself and setting boundaries is important. If you ever feel like sharing more or need support, we're here for you. 💙
I am not generally attracted to straight guys (besides simply being attracted to guys in general). But I did become VERY 'attracted' to ONE straight guy...it screwed up my life something fierce and destroyed, not only that friendship, but other longtime friendships as well. I never pursued anything physical (not my style), but I did devolve into an emotional basket case, lost my ability to trust entirely, and never really got back to normal in the decades that have followed. I would have been far better off had it been purely sexual. But I'm not sure it ever WAS sexual at all. I only ever wanted him to feel what I was feeling.
These really hot, tall black guys keep coming up to me randomly on the train and telling me I have beautiful eyes. Not sure what's up with that. To one guy I replied "I'm gay" in a very matter of fact way which I thought was funny. Just wonder if they realize I would pretty much be game for anything!!!
Sounds like you're getting some interesting compliments! 😄 If you're open to it, maybe they're just trying to start a conversation. If you ever feel like exploring the mystery further, who knows what interesting connections might unfold! 💬😉
I think what Matt said about embracing masculinity and rejecting femininity was real for me in my 20s to mid 30s. In my 40s I realized that I am attracted to masculine men but also effeminate men too. It’s a different dynamic with effeminate men but it’s very pleasurable.
Thanks for sharing your journey! It's awesome that you've embraced a broader spectrum of attraction over time. Exploring different dynamics can be enriching. If you ever want to dive deeper into these topics or share more, feel free to do so. We appreciate your openness! 🌈💙
When I was 15 I was in love with a 21 y/I boy. He was a BSA counselor to younger boys in my dad Scout troop. I knew I was gay at 15 I straight out told him I was in love with him followed with a remark of pls don't tell my old man which he didn't.
Wow, that sounds like a unique experience from your teenage years. It takes courage to share feelings like that. How did it all unfold for you afterward?
Great episode! Finally someone is willing to discuss this without degrading or demonizing the attraction for, to and from self-identfied straight men. I resonated with so much of whay you guys shared. Especially you, Matt. Thank you guys for having the courage and bravery to start the conversation!!!
Thanks a bunch! Glad you liked the episode. It means a lot that you felt a connection to the conversation. If you have any topics you'd like us to cover, feel free to let us know. Thanks for tuning in! 😊🎙
i think this topic was so facinated that it deserves a part 2. maybe delve into sub topics like is it wise or healthy to put yourself into situations where you are overly temped to run into temptation. Joining the military or a fraternity or any situation where there are lonely horny men sleeping all around you. as a demisexual i would be fine for the first 3 months and then be falling in love left and right and very possibly an emotional mess unable to concentrate on learning or my job or anything i was supposed to.. @@GayMenGoingDeeper
Thanks Brothers. I wish that this podcast existed when I was 15 years old...I'm not sure that any man who becomes physically intimate with another man is actually "straight." - I think I relate more to the Kinsey Scale that puts us all on a spectrum between 1 and 6 as far as how hetero or homosexual we are. My mom said a few years back when I was in an umpteenth Limerant situation with a "straight" / closeted guy. "Kody love knows no gender" - for a woman who dropped out of high school at age 16 when I was conceived I found that especially Profound. I also think "Love finds a way" - what is perhaps most frustrating about falling in Love with these sorts of men is that the hard line is drawn at True Intimacy...if you venture there you reach an iron curtain. Personally, I find being a vehicle for someone's experimentation to be degrading.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! It's cool that you connect with the idea of a spectrum in sexuality. Your mom's words are pretty deep. Setting boundaries is crucial, and we're here to chat about anything you want. Thanks for being part of the conversation! 😊💙
Thanks. :) Mamas are good ones. She was fortunate to have 2 gay male friends growing up in rural america. I think that paved the way for me in a way in that they enlarged her understanding / worldview@@GayMenGoingDeeper
3:47 Bingo... gay man here and self evaluation matches up with what you are saying. I don't hate femininity. I do not like it. Consiquently id hate to be str8 because i do not like women, they are different. The way women act in general is a turn off to me. I don't operate that way so in that i love being gay. But the essence is true to what you said. Is that wrong? No...
4:55 The answer is yes. I enjoy being a man who likes other men. Im not a man who likes trans boys looking like women. If that's you then great. Its not me. I work out, i do manly things, i like manly men. I think its cool if other ppl think I'm str8 i don't need to call out being gay. I don't need gayness to be a part of me or my identity. I loath it. The flag the pride, its like give me a break. You like you? you do you. Its not for me.
I tend to be attracted to hairy men visually before I even consider their hetero/ homo,etc. Hairy is generally a " masculine " trait.??? Noticed first thing all 3 of you are bearded and visually all appealing.
Thanks men! Interesting dialogue and topics. There were some unique points of view. I myself have never had any sexual experiences with straight men. Seems counterproductive yet interesting when you all share your experiences. One suggestion - would you all please do Toastmasters for one year to improve your speaking style/form. The amount of "LIKES" and You Knows was nauseating. It made it difficult to hear the content. I'm sure that's not your intent.
So glad it's here! Hope it meets your expectations. Enjoy listening! We hope also for your support in giving us a 5-star rating on the show and on whatever platform you’re listening to us on. PS: If it’s on Apple, here’s the link: podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/gay-men-going-deeper/id1535102476 Thank you so much!❤
What an amazing episode... I listened on my walk and I laughed so many times. I can empathize with the gym crush at the moment, love it when he spots me hehehe really enjoy the authentic conversation!!!
I have str8 friends. And ive befriended them cause i had ideas. LOL My best friend aside from my husband is my str8 friend. We say we love each other because its developed into a strong bond. I no longer see him that way which is fine cause that was never going to happen and instead got a life long friend. Which is more than a great piece of ass.
The girls love him tho. Because he is a fantastic man. If i were a str8 women id be banging down his door. Girls know, he knows but he says most girls are insane so its hard for him. Its crazy what great guys have to go through.
Love straight guys. Love them. Infact I prefer them over gay guys. But it doesn’t mean I am after them all the time. Like some of them think I am. I have standards 😂. They have to meet with my standards 😂…& so do gay men. LoL That’s my take on that.
TY👍reeeally interesting. Saddens me how vandalized my sexuality was. I suppose i'm bi, i had great sexual romantic experiences w/women. I also have a reservoir of anger/hatred of women. If i'm gonna be sexual w/a guy, i want one i KNOW likes guys. I have enough to worry about. Straight=automatic deterrent
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Why does this have to start with “patriarchy” and victimhood? Maybe we just like masculine me and that includes attractions to straight guys.
Right? Why is liking masculine gay men “toxic” to them but chasing straight men isn’t? Smh.
@@MiguelitoD770Because maybe they can't get laid?😂
This 3rd wave feminist ideology is the real toxic shit. EVERYTHING goes back to the patriarchy. What I most enjoy about being gay is that I can completly ignore women that had traumatic experiences with men and use that to fuel their angry based ideology, but then I find that most gay guys also adhere to this problematic world view... so sad.
@@MiguelitoD770 dude straight a gay guy can never have. A Masc gay men gays can always have.
Honestly agree, it's an exhausting perspective
Being attracted to masculinity in men is not homophobic, it’s homosexual.
Exactly! Why is the first speaker assuming that gay=femininity? Gay just means you like dick. You can take dick and be into guys without wanting to be a woman. To believe this is to engage in heteronormative thinking.
Is he trying to say that if you aren’t acting feminine, you aren’t gay enough? Seriously!!
Liking and admiring masculinity in other men is homosexual? Seriously? It is part of being a normal man right?
@@Payel5 …this is a gay channel. So yes I’m speaking on behalf of being a gay man. Are you lost, madam?
@@kaymillerfromTX I am not lost. But I think your definition is not correct. As a woman, I love to look at and admire beautiful women all the time, it is not homosexual. Same for men, they can like other hadsome men without being gay. It is wanting to have sex which may qualify as such.
These are only labels if that’s what you make them. As a gay man, who’s open with many people and friends of all sexualities, it’s perfectly normal. It’s also normal not to discuss it with others. Being aware of your emotions is not political, don’t make it political. That is a sure sign of your escapism. Face your emotions, even if you don’t speak of it with others.
You absolutely can trigger bicurious thoughts in a guy, and a lot of straight guys in the 21st century are more willing to explore those feelings when they experience them. Most gay men are deeply deeply traumatized from being 'the weird kid' and their intense black and white feelings on the issue is rooted in the boy they liked when they were 14.
I think the 'newly out' guys do have a lot to offer that out n proud guys lack. Like they're totally unaware of the body image game and the party and play and shit. Instead they've been taking women out for 3 dates before getting laid. They have game, even the ugly ones can flirt better than the 'pretty gays'.
Having dated the guy I liked at 14, this chip on the shoulder most gays have about it feels neurotic.
@@dylankennedy6020 bs a truly heterosexual man will never touch a gay man. I am gay and proud and I am sick and tired of gay men who chase straight guys and they never can get a real loving and sexual relationship. It is some sick weird fantasy. These are the gay men that lash out at others for being depressed lonely and end up doing drugs. Why waste your life on something you can never get and constantly get rejected. The men who do stuff with guys are bi not straight. Dont justify bs to say they are just curious. If they are curious they stop one time and never do it again if the guy does it more with the other guy he is either bi or closeted gay.
I really disagree with the attraction to masculinity being about internalized homophobia or an automatic rejection of femininity. I love my penis, I like to be competitive in certain areas and being 'gross' in typical boy ways and do boy things; a lot of my friends tell me how I would be such a great father, but, also I love to paint my nails and put on makeup and wear feminine styles of clothing. I am that person that gives gifts in gift bags with tissue paper and cards, and send thank you cards and host dinner parties because I love to play hostess and I identify with that old school 50's housewife. I really love masculine energy and qualities! I want to submit and get princess treatment. To the point I was struggling once again with if I was a gay man because I found myself also very attracted to Studs (masc lesbians) and transmen. That's when I realized that I actually identify more with being a non-binary person and it's perfectly ok that I'm attracted to masculine persons no matter their gender.
Bravo man! glad you got some clarity on this stuff.
I just don't see being attracted to masculinity as an index of "internalized homophobia"-it's just a matter of being erotically drawn to the masculine and not to the feminine. It's not a "rejection" of anything; it's a just a choice. It doesn't signal some internal confusion.
I agree. I don't think the host knew where he was going when he said this. The discussion that followed could not have been any more "off topic" -- to internalized homophobia, that is. It was a good discussion otherwise.
Absolutely valid! Everyone has unique attractions, and it's great that you recognize and embrace your preferences. Diversity in attraction is what makes us all wonderfully unique. 👍
How does it even make sense to anyone that us being attracted to masculinity would be homophobic and not just homosexual? 😒
It's a way for bitter and lonely people to feel better about themselves. It's not me its external prejudice etc
There is too much focus on internalised homophobia.
Not being attracted to femme qualities in men does not always equal a phobia, internal or external.
Internalised homophobia should be the ogre we must confront when we are engaging in destructive patterns of thought and behaviour.
Sometimes straight men are just really sexy; wanting them isn't a crime, but expecting them to be available is a delusion.
The wider challenge is dealing with any prospective partners that you can't have because they aren't interested in you, that may be for many reasons: looks, body type, personality, sex, gender, ethnicity, athleticism, educational level, sexuality, etc. - as cruel as any form of judgement may feel, this mechanism is at play all around the world in every human sub-group.
This issue is more a case of developing strategies for dealing with rejection - explicit or implied, from whomever it is that is unavailable to you.
It is fine to acknowledge that society in general defaults to a heteronormative model, and on top of that there is overt prejudice. But it is unhelpful to examine all issues from a purely therapeutic perspective where one perpetually frames a world-view of victimhood, the need to heal and be repaired. Yes this may have its place when people are struggling with esteem &/or identity issues, but we need to develop a philosophy of normality of the LGBTQ+ "human condition".
I get it that the speakers on this video are working in this field so will characterise things the way they see them but I'd argue we need to use more human language and steer away from the clinical or according to some form of ideology/agenda which is what I sensed from what I was hearing.
From a personal perspective I think it is ok to fetishise hyper-masculinity and to associate it mainly with certain types of straight men as long as one accepts that some gay men are just as physically masculine - despite how they may act as people, and that many straight men exhibit feminine qualities.
The ultimate test is about the intoxicating effects testosterone has that occurs more commonly with athletic straight men. This is physiological. For most gay men the effects of it are attenuated as we gestate - we have developmental differences that distinguish us for all of our lives. This is why gaydar can work. We are different, sometimes subtly sometimes very obviously.
The aura of the straight man is an ideal that few gay men can match - that isn't to denigrate gay men, it is just to acknowledge and accept that most of us lust for it - without necessarily hating ourselves about it.
Is living in such self delusion pleasant ?
@@maxmax-hv4ckI don't know, I don't live in it. Maybe you should ask someone who does.
@@maxmax-hv4ckIdk, tell us? Surely it can’t be chasing men who will never be into you and spending all your time in the comments throwing a hissy fit 🤔
@@maxmax-hv4ckWell, tell us? You would know the answer. Lol.
"For most gay men the effects of it are attenuated as we gestate"...gestate? would you care to explain what you mean here? great post btw
the guys they’re hooking up with are bi, queer, or DL. i have straight male friends that will never cross that boundary. as a bi dude i hate the constant bi erasure that men must be gay or straight/experimental.
Lmao your fighting for bi representation in DL men ?
I'm glad you said bi not "pansexual "
Yes absolutely but its unbelievably common that bi, gay, questioning guys are scared to come out and they're waiting for a guy to 'come out for'
Just speaking from my own experience, forcing the label on them will absolutely nuke any prospects that you'll be the guy he comes out for. Its his journey, not yours. Doing drag people out of the closet it just will make him retreat deeper in.
I get you're horny now but patience is a virtue and so is consent!
*don't drag people, not doing drag
I am very attracted to masculinity. I like guys who act like men, I love strong, confident masculine men. There are a lot of gay men who are very masculine, and that is a huge turn on for me.
Thanks for sharing your preference! It's great that you appreciate strong, confident men. Everyone has their unique attractions. 😊🌈
Well this man does not approve of this guy saying I'm wrong for not liking the feminine side of me. Give me a break. I like manly men, i like being a man, i don't like women because they are different and i choose not to deal with their insanity. Im not saying women don't have a roll they do. For me personally i choose not to engage in 90% of my life. The drama is limited that way. Women have their place and we should celebrate our differences but i should be allowed to like who ever i want to like. Hang out who ever i want. I choose men for the reasons i discussed in addition to the sexual component. Telling me I'm wrong for that is wrong.
ACT LIKE MEN?
yawn! as soon as the "homophobic subject"
I know right?
There’s a difference between homophobia and gay acceptance.
With gay pride there is a balance because too much pride (those who dislike/have a distorted view of it/ or even feel that it is normal and it’s pushing a label )may say or do things that get him called homophobic and then the homophobia card gets mentioned
Omg I need some rest I may not make sense but sorry I got deep into my little moment as a keyboard warrior.
Yikes. it's kinda odd to be attracted to a person that CANNOT be attracted to you...and if he IS attracted to you, then is he really straight?
No, it's perfectly normal to be attracted to someone who cannot reciprocate. Gay men are attracted to other MEN. 95% or more of the adult male population is heterosexual. It is inevitable that you will be attracted to lots of hetero males - unless you are able to surround yourself exclusively with other gay men and have no face-to-face contact with hetero males whatsoever.
I feel bad for people who think that being gay is just one thing. Being feminine has nothing to do with being gay.
Exactly. There are straight men walking around that aren't super, hyper macho. There are straight who have been mistaken for gay. That has nothing to do with sexuality...
What a bunch of BS. Im not homophobic. I don't like women, i like men, i don't like femininity. Why is that wrong? He is saying it is. Its like the trans ppl having you blocked from dating sites because you refuse to date them saying your transphobic. No i like who i like and i should not be pressed into liking you. This guy is bs. Im a gay man who likes other manly men. Im allowed not to like women and not like who ever i want to dis like. Its my perogitive.
So true and yet so many gay men are quick to scream “toxic masculinity” and “internalized whatever” while chasing after straight men smh
Tell that to the kweens running this podcast lmfao. They seem to think so
Your femininity embraced by the other's masculinity sounds pretty much like internalized homophobia as well 😂
Or at least a desire to fit into heteronormativity.
Also like Matt's femininity? What masculine counterpart is he after, Thor?
I saw your message after I wrote this: @6:00 - @6:18 This part where Matt says that he wants his feminine to meet with a man who is masculine is interesting because I just watched an episode of Queer Collective on YT where they discussed Comp Het (Compulsory Heterosexuality) theory. They said even LGBT+ ppl display this because western society conditions all of us to view things from a Male/Female Hetero perspective. Like, why can't your masculine meet with another guy's masculine energy???
looking for masculine quality and ability for emotional connection (willing to accept your being into his world). Wonder what happens if you are confident with your own masculinity and healed from trauma or unmet need so that there will not an urging for sexuality but a plotonic relationship?
That's an insightful question. Confidence in one's masculinity and healing from trauma can indeed pave the way for deep, platonic connections. It's wonderful to explore relationships beyond just sexuality.😉
I actually do agree about internalized homophobia unlike most of the comments. If liking masculinity consistently truly was innocent then there wouldn’t be such vitriol towards feminine gay men or femininity in general within our community.
Thanks for bringing this up-it’s so true that if preferences were purely personal, there wouldn’t be so much negativity toward femininity within the community. Definitely a topic worth digging deeper into!
Gentlemen? Respectfully, does any one of you have an academic degree at either the Masters or Ph. D. level? Thank you for your service to any one who's benefiting from your honest forum. Sincerely yours Gregg Oreo Long Beach CA Etats Unis
I respect the community but I generally dislike how all labels put people into boxes & mentally confined. Maybe its just me, I don't really care what I'm identified as bc deep down I know humans are complex beings. It all depends on the individual, not the category they're in.
Everything is political now. And the old days of "labels are for jars" is long gone. Every facet of human sexuality has to be categorised and have its own flag etc . This generation will need lots of therapy 😒
FR though. I've slept with a few women and enjoyed it but I'm not into women.
That being said they straight guys that I've turned gay have never gone back to women lol
I got so lucky. I've no idea how I did it, but I managed to train myself so that I automatically lose all romantic attraction even to bi men, let alone the straight ones; just learning of any interest in women turns that switch permanently off, and it's been a great blessing.
Definitely agree
It's seems to me it's because he is not fully yours as a female would feel if she learned her partner was hetroflexible. And, vice versa if she was into women.
What a ridiculous statement.
i’m bi and this is why i don’t date gay men. most of you are so insecure and ruin the relationship. can’t help that im into both genders but at least women are generally confident enough to know they’ll fulfill my needs
@@DesertFrontiersmanjust wondering which statement you are referring to
Yes! Unconscious shame about my own homosexuality draws me to straight/masculine men. I also, want what is/seems unavailable! Also, if they are straight and show zero interest in me....I want sex - but, not a relationship! (: So, EVERYTHING Matt said.
Hi there! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It's great to hear that Matt's insights resonated with you. Understanding our own feelings and attractions can be complex, but it's an important step towards self-acceptance. Wishing you all the best on your journey! 😊
Late to the party here, but this just showed up in my RUclips feed and I was curious. Interesting broadcast. I'm considerably older than you guys, but I'm not sure age or generation makes much difference, you guys sound a lot like how I thought when I was younger. I have been attracted to straight guys, but I don't think I can say it was because they were straight, they just happened to be attractive to me. I'm attracted to guys, so it seems only natural that some I'd find attractive are straight guys. I think it's a problem if you're ONLY attracted to straight guys, that's a sign you're setting yourself up for failure, and that you don't think you deserve happiness. If you were to line up the guys I've been with in my life, they run a pretty wide gamut of personality types. I have been with straight guys, in some cases I think they were simply intensely curious. Maybe they aren't straight, but just more on the straight side of the spectrum, and some may have been more bi, and some might even be in the closet or in denial. I do think it's good for gay men and straight men to be friends, because for the straight guys it gives them a space to be vulnerable if they need to, and the gay guy will think nothing of it. And for the gay guy, sometimes you might want to talk over something that a straight perspective might be helpful, or with someone where any potential sex is ruled out so that you can just be yourself without that concern getting in the way of a needed talk. You could potentially talk to a straight guy about something that would be embarrassing to talk about with a gay guy, or impossible to talk about with a woman friend. I do have straight male friends, and gay male friends. But, I don't think any of my straight friends are especially close to me. Partly that's because I've moved so much in my life that it becomes difficult for that type of friendship to really develop (same with gay friends, though I've stayed close to a few friends for a long time now). Anyway, that's how a I see things, and how I've lived it.
It's great to hear your perspective. It's interesting that you've had experiences with both straight and gay guys. It sounds like you've had a lot of different relationships, which is great. It's also important to have friendships with both straight and gay men, as it can offer different perspectives and support.🥰
I don't think straight crushs aren't necessarily about masculine guys. U can crush on a emotionally open str8t guy that seems "queer" bc he is just a nice human being and showing heathly emotional habits torwards other men in general.
I'm experiencing this currently. I have a coworker who is straight, and everyone thought he was gay at first, for the reasons you stated. I have, unfortunately for me, developed a crush. I actually found this video because I wanted to understand why I might be attracted to him and learn how to flip the switch if possile. I'm not someone who falls for people easily (despite wanting a relationship), so I feel like an idiot that I did for this guy who's not an option. We get along rather well and have a lot in common. I wish I could talk to him about how I feel, but to what end? At best I expect it would stop him from wanting to be friendly towards me, or talk to me. Also, don't want either of us feeling uncomfortable at work... I'm sorry for dumping this on your comment, lmao.
@@cocoapuffaddict I’m assuming he knows you’re gay and also assuming you’re positive he’s straight. I went through a similar situation and totally surprised myself that I had a crush on a guy that I had become friends with. He lives w/ his gf and the friendship grew deeper as we realized we had a lot in common. Very chill. I decided I’d risk the friendship and told him I had a crush on him. I told him I’d control myself lol and the whole thing surprised me too. Turns out he and his gf have an open relationship and both identify as bi. Tell the guy!
@@letsdance4078 You're correct that he knows I'm gay and I'm pretty sure he's straight. He proclaimed as much to some nosy coworkers when he was new at the workplace. He's had at least two girlfriends that I know of, but isn't in a relationship currently. He was (maybe still is) talking to another girl he's interested in. That was a hot minute ago and if anything came of it he didn't mention it. We don't hang out outside of work and I see him about once or twice a week. His life and worklife are separate things, and our worlds only overlap at work. He's in college, graduating soon, and planning to take an internship over the summer that could turn into a job. He's not settled. Not going to stay where I am for much longer. Even IF he has bisexual thoughts or tendencies, I don't think he's explored that or come to terms with it. Hard to say more unless I actually talk to him about it, but I don't feel like we're at a level that we could have that talk. You can bet I've overanalyzed his interactions with not only myself, but others, to see if there were any discrepancies. There aren't any. He's just a nice guy who's friendly towards everyone in equal measure.
I'm happy that your scenario panned out favorably and appreciate your encouragement, but there's a lot of reasons, beyond what I've mentioned already, that I haven't dared broach subject. I'd love to dream, but I genuinely don't think it'll work out how I want it to.
@@cocoapuffaddictif the guy is sweet tell him how u feel about him and assure him that u know he's not interested in men and just wanted to get it off your chest 😅 u will feel good
It boomeranged on me, and he is avoiding me 😢...
@crlns
0 seconds ago
50:53 That "YES!" 😂
Gotcha! We're glad this episode resonates with you.😍
The softening of the mask of masculinity... that is exactly what I am attracted to in straight men ... not the swag because I have my own... its the cutting through the façade to find the real vulnerable man inside
In my own case, as a bi when i learn a guy is straight it's an automatic deterrent. Yet, i have many straight guy friends, and have found them loyal & honorable. There is something pure about the love they give, precisely because it is unencumbered by carnal desire
One can be masculine without it being a mask, just like they can be vulnerable without it being a façade. These sorts of assumptions are damaging.
“Don’t flatter ypurself straight men, gays don’t want you just cause your straight!” When the entire podcast is about gay men who are attracted to straight men just cause they’re straight, and, according to this talk, it’s basically RAMPANT that gay men, we’re all just waiting to pounce on straight men! I can’t relate to the “forbidden” sentiment, I just don’t get it. There’s nothing wrong with finding a man attractive, sexually attractive, it’s a normal feeling. Seeking out a man, just because he’s straight, I don’t know any gay men like that.
Yeah, SOME straight guys can be objectively attractive, but in reality, as attractive as he may be, as soon as I know a guy is straight I can physically see an iron wall falling between us, I immediately lose interest. I once fooled around with a guy who identified as straight, but was really expecting and in the process of accepting his bisexuality. Idk where all these straight guys that want to experiment with gay men are hiding, but that just doesn’t happen to me. Good for you though! Thanks as always for sharing, big hugs
A man approaching another man is hard, regardless of their orientation. I think it ultimately comes down to building relationships and getting to know people. When people know and, hopefully, trust you, they are more likely to open up and reveal themselves more.
Same here. Doesn’t go past physical attraction at all. I don’t get that nor shaming gay masculine men when it’s clearly what these guys want chasing the straights.
You put up that iron wall because you are terrified of rejection. You don't know where he fits on the straight to gay scale.
I literally put on a gay accent around straight men and its like a beacon for anyone who's a little curious. For a guy who feels shame about his sexuality, an empowered gay man confident in his glitter masculinity is incredibly appealing.
they all have feminine speech patterns.
are you referring to the guys in the video? nah bro...only one of them has it slightly. and who cares anyways? don't be a hater
@@junsu21nah they all sound zesty lmfao. And the only ones hating are THEM! “Internalized phobia durrrrr” gimme a break. Are they just finding out that gay men like men and not “yasssss kweens” ???
Guys with the gay voice attract questioning straight men with ease while the masc4masc bros are super bitter about this topic
I actually thought this podcast might clarify and strip away the B/S about this. But it didn’t. It just added more layers of blah blah and overthinking. First of all I’m a gay man and came out in 1971. I am 100% gay with no margin of “fluidity”. I have been attracted to men all of my life (since attraction was a thing for me). I love the way men are, the way they move, how they are in their own skins even when they’re not entirely comfortable, how they occupy their space, their bodies, their taste, smell, and yes, of course, their genitals. I’m not attracted to ALL men…. some float my boat but many don’t. Whatever it is that attracts me it’s NOT their sexual orientation, it’s their masculinity, their maleness. Self-identified “straight” men are just as likely to attract me (or not) as any other man. Why would I only be attracted to gay men when it’s not gayness that governs my attraction but maleness? I’m not self-oppressed and I haven’t “internalised homophobia”. If it’s masculinity that attracts me it’s because I’m gay. And I love it.
I've honestly never been attracted to straight guys, other than admiration for a good-looking guy. It's hard enough finding the right gay guy! And gay guys run the gamut from masculinity to femininity.
The two on top expressed more of the hard aspects of it and the Bottom guy expressed the good feelings and attributes of it.
But without reading comments yet I feel it’s hard to see that the first guy touched the difficult internalized feelings and once he finished it was the guy on the bottoms turn to released his opinions. Yeah it sucks and I was bullied by a guy who turns out was bullied in the same way .
But then the 3rd guy kinda finished fast now had it hard because the first two guys left us with more questions low key.
Personally think the fact they did the video with shirts on had them trying to be professional at times but let’s be honest that’s limited an aspect of the sexual part of being gay.
We don’t get enough make intimacy as men already and it shows how we feel the need to talk about why it’s different for a man who accepts he is gay with another male who doesn’t have that vulnerability or worse will exploit the vulnerability so that he never will be vulnerable
Thank you for sharing your thoughtful perspective! It sounds like you really picked up on the different dynamics and layers in the video. The way you pointed out the contrast between vulnerability and how we navigate that as gay men is so important. It’s true-there’s often a lot unsaid when it comes to intimacy and the complexities of being vulnerable with one another. We appreciate your insight, especially around the challenges of balancing professionalism with the realness of our experiences. Thanks for adding to the conversation! 🙏
Sexual part of being gay is big. You cant deny it. Men are men and gay men do want sex and we are not ashamed of sex like heteros are.
I am tired of all of these gay men who act like priests who dont have sex and act vanilla. We must stop letting the outside world take our right to be gay away from us. Being around straight men you can't have takes your sexual desires and your gayness away. Need that balance.
Thanks!
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Gay male here and neither masculine or feminine somewhere in the middle. As an example some know I am gay after getting to know me and others don't, go figure. I have the same experience as Matt and that is if I go to a gay bar for example I will find the one straight guy there and hit on him. This is not on purpose and drives me crazy. Gone to the closest gay parade in my area and ended up finding a guy there a attractive and he was straight, seriously there is something wrong with me. On a side note I think Matt is very attractive and if I saw him at a bar for example I would hit on him so maybe there is hope for me yet. For what it is worth have no gay friends in my area and not even any straight ones for that matter so it was nice to find the channel.
Thanks for sharing that-we totally get the struggle of unintentionally gravitating toward the one straight guy in the room; it can feel like the universe is playing tricks! And hey, we love the optimism-maybe a chance encounter with someone like Matt is right around the corner!🥰
I think the gays in this comments are too narrow minded to understand the thing you were trying to say, as I said in other comment, I grew up (I was 10 I think, when I knew I liked men) around manly men in a society that nessitates me to be butch. So I ultimately only found manly men attractive. Which imo is wrong. I'm still working on being open to all kinds of men. It's easy to hide your prejudice behind "preference". Even straight men can be feminine.
Ultimately, I think finding straight guy is like the forbidden fruit because we might end up hurting or own feelings.
my situation is more like the guy from skam Norway isac whereby I've always been gay and have seen flamboyant gay people and just never really liked that and so I always found straight people more attractive but then as time went by I realized there where gay people who weren't feminine and I just honestly see this as a preference and not internalized homophobia
Thanks for sharing this. Your journey and preferences are completely valid and unique to you. Keep honoring your truth and preferences without judgment, as they're an integral part of your identity.💪
As much fun as man on man sex is, you do have to keep your antenna on alert when meeting "straight" guys for the first few encounters.
This is a very interesting conversation. And I might have liked some "straight" men when I was younger but I am FAR past that now. It's actually a turn off to me.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! It's great to see how perspectives evolve over time. 🌟😍
You should talk about toxicity of gay men and always putting others down. Also about promiscuity.
Our platform is a place for respectful dialogue. It's important to foster an inclusive and respectful environment where everyone feels valued and safe.
...Femininity is Attractive, Masculinity is Attractive. If you prefer one over the other or both equally its both Great. Being Bisexual and "Masc" or "passing" its so frustrating 😤 to see how INSANE all of humanity is and that crosses all Sexualities. I recognize the "privilege" and the pedal stole that Im often placed on due to societies rejection of diversity (foundationally) but as a bi masc male the discrimination from both Heterosexual and Homosexual is ridiculous especially from Homosexuals given we share a movement/struggle (LGBT) "which is one of the reasons that I am moving away from embracing the term refering to myself as simply Bi". People are people, we are all at our core the same as we are all humans, but have immense diversity amongst us and that diversity is all BEAUTIFUL.
The opening speaker is justifying his own attractions. Great why can’t be just be attracted to what or whoever they’re attracted to. I thought this might be interesting but bye,
Defensive much?😩☝🏿
Rofl get over yourself
the second question is pretty dumb...
The moderator took an awful long time to get to the panel. I believe that gay men are sexually attracted to masculine energy but emotionally and spiritually may identify with feminine energy.
I lived as an effeminate gay man for about a decade and I almost always found myself attracted to straight men-even at gay bars too. It was a very depressing/debilitating pattern of mine. I thought it was some kind of self-sabotage or maybe just because I was usually surrounded by them, because they constitute so much of the population. Within the past year I’ve come out as a transwoman and have discovered they’re apparently who I’ve been meant to be attracted to all along (as a fair number of them now reciprocate). Not at all saying that’s the case with everyone but it certainly makes me feel vindicated and puts a lot of my life into context.
Thank you for sharing your journey with such honesty and vulnerability. It's incredibly empowering to see you embracing your true self and finding clarity in your identity. Your story highlights the importance of self-discovery and acceptance. Wishing you continued happiness and fulfillment on your journey. 🌟
they are probably bi,if they like you.
you still can't attract straight men.
There are too many lost people in the world, especially in the gay community and these people here served no good purpose for anyone in our community by the skewed logic they brought to the table. Attraction is attraction, no need to come up with theories like “internalized homophobia” just to bring something new to the table that nobody has brought up before. Unhealthy attraction has been studied for ages and there is plenty of research on what causes it and sometimes it’s not caused by anything other than people just like what they like, straight or gay. Human beings are all the same when it comes to attraction/obsession/love/whatever you wanna call it. Yes, of course mental health has a lot to do with it at times, but again that has nothing to do with orientation. People going through some tough emotions and/or are feeling out of balance within themselves in love can talk to a therapist or look up information on things like Limerence for example.
Lost interest as soon as I heard the words 'internalised homophobia' and 'patriarchy'.
Why? I'm genuinely curious
@@okorochukwunonso2563 Because they are garbage terms with no place in reality, and are completely meaningless in terms of sexual attraction between one man and another. Here's why gay men get crushes on straight men. The vast majority of adult males are hetero. Gay men spend at least part of their time in the company of hetero males -- and in many cases the majority of their time. So it is INEVITABLE that gay men develop attractions towards hetero males that they meet and know in their daily lives.
lol true. snowflakes throw labels at others its getting annoyin@@WynterFyre
@@okorochukwunonso2563 Why? Because they are garbage terms that don't refer to anything real.
@@WynterFyre Good, now tell us what it is? Get to work and educate us.
Why not probe the fun part of down low sex, the straight man's attraction to gay men. I've had plenty of those experiences, and I was never the instigator. One guy picked me up with a baby carriage in the car. Once I asked about his kid. Oh. He's starting college in the fall.
Thanks for sharing your funny experience!😆Exploring the complexities of attraction and desire can shed light on various dynamics within relationships. But we look forward to tackle this kind of funny topics.🙃🌈
I love this video. I’m Straight, but always been considered somewhat fem. Being in touch with my feelings and flamboyantly outgoing, I tend to get along with gay men better than straight as I’ve never gotten along with straight men. But then gay men always get extremely aggressive, trying to convince me that I’m gay, being a tall catch. It has been frustrating I just simply want to hang out. I’ve learned to embrace my solo life, as my Eccentric Outgoing Straight self who vibes differently than others. Though I really do enjoy gay men that are secure in themselves. And because I’ve always been accused of being gay, I am very empathetic to the abuse that gay men have had to endure in the past because I have survived that as well.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
As you mentioned, you're mostly social with gay men, but then you mention a "solo life".
Do you have platonic or romantic women friends (of any sexuality)?
@@adlad75 I’ve always had many women friends. Yes, I’m actually married.
I want nothing to do with straight men; it is far too much like work trying to figure out a man's orientation before the fact.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. It's important to prioritize your comfort and boundaries in relationships. Our content aims to foster understanding and respect within all communities. We appreciate your engagement.💕
@@GayMenGoingDeeper I'm afraid I put that the wrong way; in fact I have no problem with straight men. I simply want to know a guy's orientation before I make any moves toward a relationship.
@@Scottsteaux63 Hi! No worries at all, we understand what you mean. It’s definitely important to know someone’s orientation before pursuing a relationship. Thanks for clarifying, and we appreciate your openness.☺
The straight man will pursue you, don't pursue him.
Being attracted to straight men doesn't need to be pathologized. We don't create a pathology model for why women are attracted to straight men so why create a pathology model for why gay men are attracted to straight men? For me, it's easier to just love who I love. If the guy I have a crush on loves me back, great. If not, bummer. I can move on. There are plenty of men in the world. I'm attracted to masculine men regardless of their sexual orientation and this is fine with me.
Your premise is faulty. Straight women are attracted to straight guys because the attraction has a basis of reciprocation. This is not so with gay men attracted to straight men.
The latter always leads to rejection and so it will need examination because it a fixation that gay men get stuck in.
This is a mental health podcast after all which promotes holistic living.
I guess that very early experiences only happen when one is unaware of their sexuality - I was fascinated with the men's underwear pages in the mail order catalogue (oh, those 80s) by first grade, maybe earlier. I would have never dared to try anything close to straight friends back then...
Thank you for sharing your perspective! Exploring and understanding our sexuality can indeed begin at a young age, sometimes even before we fully comprehend it. It's a journey unique to each person, shaped by our experiences and environment.🤗😍
You're overthinking it. It's fundamental. Although of course in toto it's far more complicated than this, nevertheless it's true that. in simplest terms, straight guys are natural tops while gay guys are natural bottoms.
Why does this whole thing just seem so fake?
I thought the same thing!!
I find no fakeness whatever in this podcast. On the contrary, I find the three guys intriguing, with multiple viewpoints that reflect many moments I’ve been through as a gay man. I knew I was gay in third grade, so imagine trying to figure out at that young age who the other gay boys were in my school. Back then, I just knew I was aroused by “males” and, if I rely here on a stereotype of simplistic description, I knew already-at least, unconsciously and not processing it consciously-that I was a total top. I looked only at guys’ asses and I fell in love multiple times with hunky male teachers with classic bubble butts and a slight inclination to welcoming my attention to them. Slight, but not overt. I love what the three hosts of this podcast are doing. We gay men are brothers together. Let’s surround each other with our God-given strength.
@@johncampbell1152 what's so "intriguing" about them? Aside from reinforcing many damaging stereotypes, they offer the most generic responses to the most vapid of subjects.
We're not "brothers." We're men who share what is often a singular biological trait. It's very difficult to base "brotherhood" or "community" off this one trait.
I can assure you, no imaginary being gave me my strength. I found it for myself, as everyone does (or does not, in some cases).
Because it goes against what your believe. I believe the same, men around me growing up were very masculine and "manly" so i was subconsciously attracted to all "masculine" men. Even straight men can be feminine. It's a valid opinion they're saying but y'all are too thick headed to understand that
@@johncampbell1152this comment exactly captures what I was trying to say.
I don't really accept any of the premises of the openning statement of this episode because I'm not a believer in patriarchal conditioning. I tend to think whatever you're attracted to is what you're attracted to...unless it is bringing harm to you or other people, holding you back, or preventing you from being compassionate, I don't think it's bad.
Thank you for sharing your perspective! We appreciate hearing different viewpoints and value your thoughtful input. It's important to have these conversations and consider various angles. We're glad you're part of our community! 😊
You're not a "believe in patriarchal conditioning"? What does that even mean? Patriarchal conditioning is factual, it's the societal rules that we have internalized as women and men.
@@marieap6945 I don't think theory constitues fact. It's the other way around. The theory makes sense, but that's about all it does. Making sense is not intellectually rigorous.
Same though, abs are attractive because it denotes that you are able to thrust for a long period of time. Calves are attractive bc it means he can hold me up against the wall and fuvk me.
Straight men are hot because they actually date.
This is the thing I'm straight but I've had relationships with dudes and I've had a relationship a gay relationship with a straight man so maybe love is just love I don't want to label it
Thank you for sharing your experience! Love indeed transcends labels, and it's wonderful to hear your perspective. Our aim is to celebrate love in all its forms and promote understanding and acceptance. Your input enriches our community discussion. Thank you for being a part of it!🥰💞
YOU are not straight buddy hahahaha
people in the comment proving the point of internalized homophobia lmaooo
Yeah that isn’t a thing, Mary.
@@MiguelitoD770 you calling me mary proves the point even more ❤️ go to therapy, hating on other gay guys isn’t going to make you straight
What's the email for the podcast?
We tend to obsess on things that we can't have.
So true! The allure of the unattainable can be quite captivating. Ever found a way to navigate or shift that focus?
Well, if one seeks a long term, healthy and committed relationship go for guys who have well established identities as gay or bisexual men. Aiming for a completely straight guy often times is a dead-end. Internal homophobia and the urge to conform to society's expectations afflicts us all to a certain degree. I just found out last year that my first ex got married with a woman. I don't want to judge him. Sexual orientation is a continuum. If he thinks that he can be happy and be faithful to his wife, I wish him the best of luck.
@@marcusmagnificus1984 You make a valid point. Seeking a relationship with someone who's comfortable in their identity can be more promising. It's true, sexual orientation is diverse, and wishing your ex the best reflects your understanding and kindness. 🌈💙
True, However know man is unhackable, You have to 1st be someone they find attractive, And, he has to be assured you can keep your trap shut. Me personally have been approached by men I God honestly thought were only straight. And, didn't know what to do with them when the opportunity was in front of me
Gross
The first guy speaking is not close to great relationships with straight men of which I have many and have had pleasure with a few. Men and women think differently, I’m not sure why some gay men think like a woman when relating with men
When we were both 22, I loved a 'straight' man who incidentally loved me also. We were office colleagues. He married (broke my heart), had 3 children......I lived my gay life, he lived his life.
Fast forward to 2024......we are both 78 but our platonic relationship continued.....even today he messaged me signing off with "your long time best friend."
In the 60s, I'm sure it was a different story back then in terms of gay/straight relationships. Glad you are still friends.
I immediately become enemy number one when this topic comes up because my experience is so different from everyone else's.
Pretty much every 'straight friend' I had a crush on, wound up coming out for me and was just waiting for a guy before they took that risk. Maybe I just have impeccable gaydar and got lucky? Maybe I am just that charming.
Even the ones I haven't dated have tried to hit in my 20s. Generally I'll do better finding a guy to bring home at a Nascar event or football game than a more overtly gay space.
And I talk about this phenomenon and people jump down my throat. Like I get a lot of guys have trauma around a straight man or whatever, but my experiences shape my views. I cant relate to your experience pining for the straight man, but I still understand you went through that.
For me all this, but flip it to be about gay men. When I'm into a gay man romantically I'm pining, he's taking me for granted, and kinda hurtful. I'm sick of being the guide for men out of the closet, Ive felt like a therapist dealing with angst I got over at 14.
What I've learned though is this- Gay men have no game at all, the bi and straight men do know how to flirt in a way that I wish gays practiced. They're typically more well adjusted romantically because they have more experience with specifically dating women. They're not too aware of how bad gay hook up culture is and they seem to want to court you. What they do bring is a lot of internalized homophobia which is a pretty big tradeoff. You will have to hold his hand through every coming out step, things you don't even remember from your own coming out journey and some of those super toxic thoughts that are involved in that.
For my own self esteem, I've not been a closet rescuer in a long time. But oddly enough its only after I only started pursuing out gay men that my self esteem has truly gone through the ringer. I've never been able to cultivate a meaningful relationship with an out gay man.
People will absolutely attack me. A lot of your progress in your maturing was around throwing out the straight man fantasy. You have beaten it into yourself that 'it can never happen' bc its brought you so much shame.
There is no such thing as an accidental friendship though. If you're clearly gay, and a 'straight guy' wants to be your friend he is a little curious. We make attraction determinations before anything else in a first impression. Don't make the move with these guys ever, if he wants it he will. If you bring it up, he will go into gay panic. But if you allow him to get close to you on his terms, amazing things will happen.
Lmao so yeah what Matt is saying, I wrote this before watching
Having a crush on a straight dude got to be the most devastating thing that happened emotionnally in my life. There was this guy that i met back in september, i directly had a crush on him, but i quickly figured out he wasn't gay.. even tho everyone was doubting it. I told him quickly about my feelings, so that it wouldn't ruin our frienship. Sadly, we happened to get really close (no flirt involved, only pure but fusionnal friendship) and by december-january, he got dump by his girlfriend and i was the one listening to all his sadness, every night and day. We called each other, watched movies on discord, shared music playlists. By the end of the christmas break, i spent time with him, and kept talking and cheering each other up every day, i felt in love, even tho there wasn't any "close and intimate interactions". We were saying "i love you" a lot tho. Eventually, distance happened because he had less time for me, and i suffered. He got to know my pain and we decided to cut each other by the end of january. Now we suffer both from this, because i lost the dude that i thought was the love of my life and he lost his bestfriend. We keep seeing each other at school, and we try to be in good terms but it doesn't work, so we gotta live like we're nothing to each other, and i gotta tell you, this is the hardest situation i had in entire life. I don't even know if i'll get over it by seeing him everyday.. i miss him, and god know how much i love him
I sometimes wonder if we are moving into a post sexual orientation world where being a gay man has more to do with the culture than the actual attraction factor. And I definitely agree that part of the magnetism that straight men have to us is that they can drop the performance (as it was so eloquently put in this podcast) of what other men and women, society in general expects of them to be a man. Which, in my friendships with these sorts of guys it seems it must be an incredible burden. Just as it is a terrible burden for us gay men to move naked through the world.
Great thoughts! It's interesting to consider a post-sexual orientation world, where culture plays a significant role. The idea of dropping societal expectations and being authentic resonates. It's true, navigating the world with our true selves can be challenging for everyone.
Thanks for the response Guys. Self Discovery and how that elevates the entirety of individual and collective Consciousness, that is The Big Adventure Don't you find? Hope you guys are having an Awesome year. I have a lot of your podcasts I'm looking forward to catching up on. Y'all are very prolific these days :P @@GayMenGoingDeeper
Fuck the amount of commercials
Hey! You can opt for a premium subscription.😉
Most of the men who have come on to me have actually been ‘heterosexual’ men, who have children and are in monogamous relationships with women, ironically. These men are ‘straight acting,’ portraying a certain lifestyle and are very meticulous about their image and how others perceive them publicly. They love attention too. But, the right kind of attention. 😆
The truth is that early on in my sexuality journey I realised I wasn’t attracted to gay men, so most of my boyfriends have been straight and it works - they don’t feel gay either they are just in love with one guy and I’m not a stereotypical gay guy I’m just me.
ummm why? that doesn"t make sense. You weren't attracted to gay men who easily have the hots for you?
I'd love to hear more. Limerence videos began being suggested from my RUclips views. Can you include The Velvet Rage author Alan Downs research in any part 2 video? You touched on the childhood wounding for gay kids; how nice it is for gay guys to help straight guys heal their childhood wounding (I mean with their emotional vulnerability not necessarily their sexual needs/wants).
this sounds very binary to me.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! We appreciate your feedback.❤
I enjoy kicking it with my “hetero” brothers and they’ll tell you in a heartbeat that they LOVE me because I’ve always been genuinely me. Having been called a “butch/queen” cuz I have feminine energy but I’m a whole ass dude seems to attract certain men. I’ve also never been “attracted” to straight men to date nor do I see them as a conquest. However, early on I was the only one like me growing up with a bunch of guys so they’ve always been been in my life, like my brothers and that’s how I’ve always seen them. Lastly, I also agree with the sentiment that I always felt safe with them.
Fascinating episode but holy **** ads added about 30 minutes to the runtime...
Thanks for tuning in! Apologies for the ads adding extra time; we appreciate your patience.
Most of my friends are straight or semi secretly bisexual. In my expierence straight guys sometimes seem to think they can't be friends or be close with gay guys even if they want to.
True, some straight guys feel unsure about being close with gay friends. Have you found ways to make connections despite that?
@@GayMenGoingDeeper yes, by just being likeable to them
Enjoyed listening to your perceptive on this topic as well as reading others’ responses to the podcast. I’m always curious about the “why” behind people’s comments. As a bi man living in a 38 year long mixed orientation marriage this podcast came up in my feed at a perfect time. Keep up the great thought provoking work.
I have no gay friends my best buddy is straight I’ve been attracted to one straight man a colleague. He and ended up a good relationship one thing made me uncomfortable he told him wife and I met her one day and it was uncomfortable .
Just came across your channel. I am doing therapy at the moment it’s a never ending process.
I accept the fact I am a masculine man and attractive to masculine gay men i have accepted this it’s just who I am .
Thanks for sharing your journey! Accepting and embracing who you are is a powerful step. Therapy is a great tool for self-discovery and growth. Wishing you continued progress on your path! 🌈💙
Why is my thouthful and humorous comment not visible even under the "Newest" tab yet comments from one day ago or more are? Is there a moderation process they have to go through before being made visible?
I’m older now, so the ‘action’ isn’t what it used to be. That being said, this was a walk down memory lane for me. I’ve been attracted to both gay and straight men because its men I want for sex. For a time, I was getting straight or Bi men all the time! While it works out as a fantasy, in reality it can be a flop after the sex act because some straight men have remorse almost immediately afterwards and freak themselves out over their sexual experience with another guy. I had to talk a guy down once because he literally couldn’t believe what he had just done, and I guess he was raised in a strict/religious household. He put his hands over his face in shame and recoiled after he got off. I assured him I would never tell anyone and that what we did and that many people explore their sexuality and that its normal. I felt bad for him. Men being men, they are up for it but after they orgasm they suddenly forgot what led them to have sex with another man in the first place. Religious and social dogma have devastating effects on some people. I could never live like that, but look at all the anti gay politicians and how many of them get caught with men, male lovers or scandals that were never supposed to see the light of day. There are quite a few of them!
yeah, they call that post-nut clarity. It's so sad for a str8 guy to feel all that shame after trying something with another dude
Awesome - resonate with ALL of it.
Do you think you guys could possibly talk about being in business for yourself as a gay person? And how for some of us, it's hard to see ourselves as successful business owners. I'm here working on business stuff and I feel like I'm sitting in my own filth (not sure if you can relate to this feeling), because I'm not working in an office, I'm working at home, and theres this sense of "i'm wasting my time," when the more productive thought should be, "I'm working towards my goals." I dont know if I'm making sense, but I would love to hear you talk about this-- the negative thoughts that enter your head as you are working on your own business without the safety of being in a corporate 9-5.
We have added this to our list of topics to discuss, thanks for the suggestion
Is this a Canadian show? The accents are interesting. 🙂
Is the LBTGQQ tent wide enough to have space for homosexuals whoare solely interested in servicing straight men?
My experience: Totally agree with you guys on experiencing straight guys feeling more comfortable speaking about their feelings with me rather than their straight guy friends or women. I find this fascinating. So clear that the norms imposed upon straight men can sometimes only 'be broken' by them if they are with a gay guy who has become their friend. Over time, I've been struck by the fact that I also feel more comfortable speaking with straight guys about certain issues particularly issues that I have regarding interactions with other gay men. As for attraction to straight guys being a sign of internalized homophobia, sure, I get the point. However, using the 1 in 10 rule: It's near impossible to cancel out the majority of men that I find attractive because (1) They are straight and (2) Fretting over what 'this says about me.'
Totally get where you're coming from! The dynamics of sharing feelings and connecting with straight friends can be unique. And attraction is a complex thing - it's about connection more than labels. Thanks for sharing your experience!
When I was 18 (this was Fall '82, and attitudes were much more conservative then), I told my handsome classmate that I had feelings for him. He was in my Biology class, and the following Mon., he moved to the opposite side of the classroom. I fell for many straight guys in my 20's and 30s, up until about 3 years ago, when I fell for someone at the gym. Then, realized that I was still attracted to unavailable men, and made a vow to never let that happen again.
Fast-forward to 2014, I fell for my hot, 29-year old co-worker......he was so beautiful, and he knew that I was gay. But, a very sweet guy, and we really hit it off. About 6 mos. after that, he became very cold, and I can only conclude that some blabbermouth told him about me. So, very hard for me to trust any straight guys.....You'd think that someone who was only in his late 20s would've been more liberal, but it was like he was afraid of me. That really hurt, and I've not forgotten it. SO, although there may be some kind of a "thrill" in chasing one of them, you're really only hurting yourself in the long run! 💔❤🩹💪
I appreciate you sharing your experiences. It sounds like you've been through some challenging moments, and I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you faced. Building trust can be tough, especially when past experiences have been hurtful. Taking care of yourself and setting boundaries is important. If you ever feel like sharing more or need support, we're here for you. 💙
i appreciate it, thank you. @@GayMenGoingDeeper
I can relate to a lot of your experience. Thank You for Sharing 😊
I am not generally attracted to straight guys (besides simply being attracted to guys in general).
But I did become VERY 'attracted' to ONE straight guy...it screwed up my life something fierce and destroyed, not only that friendship, but other longtime friendships as well. I never pursued anything physical (not my style), but I did devolve into an emotional basket case, lost my ability to trust entirely, and never really got back to normal in the decades that have followed.
I would have been far better off had it been purely sexual. But I'm not sure it ever WAS sexual at all. I only ever wanted him to feel what I was feeling.
George Clooney! ❤❤
Many women and men are attracted to him.
Love this, so interesting and very true in every story. I think all three prospective I can see my self in that story. I love this. 😘
These really hot, tall black guys keep coming up to me randomly on the train and telling me I have beautiful eyes. Not sure what's up with that. To one guy I replied "I'm gay" in a very matter of fact way which I thought was funny. Just wonder if they realize I would pretty much be game for anything!!!
Sounds like you're getting some interesting compliments! 😄 If you're open to it, maybe they're just trying to start a conversation. If you ever feel like exploring the mystery further, who knows what interesting connections might unfold! 💬😉
I think what Matt said about embracing masculinity and rejecting femininity was real for me in my 20s to mid 30s. In my 40s I realized that I am attracted to masculine men but also effeminate men too. It’s a different dynamic with effeminate men but it’s very pleasurable.
Thanks for sharing your journey! It's awesome that you've embraced a broader spectrum of attraction over time. Exploring different dynamics can be enriching. If you ever want to dive deeper into these topics or share more, feel free to do so. We appreciate your openness! 🌈💙
how different is the dynamic either way?
I’ve been with a few straight men and none of them knew how to clean themselves enough for me to ever want to do it again.
When I was 15 I was in love with a 21 y/I boy. He was a BSA counselor to younger boys in my dad Scout troop. I knew I was gay at 15 I straight out told him I was in love with him followed with a remark of pls don't tell my old man which he didn't.
Wow, that sounds like a unique experience from your teenage years. It takes courage to share feelings like that. How did it all unfold for you afterward?
Great episode! Finally someone is willing to discuss this without degrading or demonizing the attraction for, to and from self-identfied straight men. I resonated with so much of whay you guys shared. Especially you, Matt. Thank you guys for having the courage and bravery to start the conversation!!!
Thanks a bunch! Glad you liked the episode. It means a lot that you felt a connection to the conversation. If you have any topics you'd like us to cover, feel free to let us know. Thanks for tuning in! 😊🎙
i think this topic was so facinated that it deserves a part 2. maybe delve into sub topics like is it wise or healthy to put yourself into situations where you are overly temped to run into temptation. Joining the military or a fraternity or any situation where there are lonely horny men sleeping all around you. as a demisexual i would be fine for the first 3 months and then be falling in love left and right and very possibly an emotional mess unable to concentrate on learning or my job or anything i was supposed to.. @@GayMenGoingDeeper
@@caveredecorator5310 Great suggestion! Thanks for the input, and we'll definitely consider it for future episodes! 🎙🌈
We’re all born different .. long as their kind.
Thanks Brothers. I wish that this podcast existed when I was 15 years old...I'm not sure that any man who becomes physically intimate with another man is actually "straight." - I think I relate more to the Kinsey Scale that puts us all on a spectrum between 1 and 6 as far as how hetero or homosexual we are. My mom said a few years back when I was in an umpteenth Limerant situation with a "straight" / closeted guy. "Kody love knows no gender" - for a woman who dropped out of high school at age 16 when I was conceived I found that especially Profound. I also think "Love finds a way" - what is perhaps most frustrating about falling in Love with these sorts of men is that the hard line is drawn at True Intimacy...if you venture there you reach an iron curtain. Personally, I find being a vehicle for someone's experimentation to be degrading.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! It's cool that you connect with the idea of a spectrum in sexuality. Your mom's words are pretty deep. Setting boundaries is crucial, and we're here to chat about anything you want. Thanks for being part of the conversation! 😊💙
Thanks. :) Mamas are good ones. She was fortunate to have 2 gay male friends growing up in rural america. I think that paved the way for me in a way in that they enlarged her understanding / worldview@@GayMenGoingDeeper
3:47 Bingo... gay man here and self evaluation matches up with what you are saying. I don't hate femininity. I do not like it. Consiquently id hate to be str8 because i do not like women, they are different. The way women act in general is a turn off to me. I don't operate that way so in that i love being gay. But the essence is true to what you said. Is that wrong? No...
4:55 The answer is yes. I enjoy being a man who likes other men. Im not a man who likes trans boys looking like women. If that's you then great. Its not me. I work out, i do manly things, i like manly men. I think its cool if other ppl think I'm str8 i don't need to call out being gay. I don't need gayness to be a part of me or my identity. I loath it. The flag the pride, its like give me a break. You like you? you do you. Its not for me.
I am a man who happens to be gay. Thats it.
I tend to be attracted to hairy men visually before I even consider their hetero/ homo,etc. Hairy is generally a " masculine " trait.??? Noticed first thing all 3 of you are bearded and visually all appealing.
Well thank you, we'll happily accept your compliment 🥰
Thanks men! Interesting dialogue and topics. There were some unique points of view. I myself have never had any sexual experiences with straight men. Seems counterproductive yet interesting when you all share your experiences.
One suggestion - would you all please do Toastmasters for one year to improve your speaking style/form. The amount of "LIKES" and You Knows was nauseating. It made it difficult to hear the content. I'm sure that's not your intent.
Yay! I’ve been waiting for this episode
So glad it's here! Hope it meets your expectations. Enjoy listening! We hope also for your support in giving us a 5-star rating on the show and on whatever platform you’re listening to us on. PS: If it’s on Apple, here’s the link: podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/gay-men-going-deeper/id1535102476 Thank you so much!❤
What an amazing episode... I listened on my walk and I laughed so many times. I can empathize with the gym crush at the moment, love it when he spots me hehehe really enjoy the authentic conversation!!!
So glad you enjoyed the episode! 😄 Laughter is the best, right?
@@GayMenGoingDeeper I needed a laugh... Laughter is the best medicine
I have str8 friends. And ive befriended them cause i had ideas. LOL My best friend aside from my husband is my str8 friend. We say we love each other because its developed into a strong bond. I no longer see him that way which is fine cause that was never going to happen and instead got a life long friend. Which is more than a great piece of ass.
The girls love him tho. Because he is a fantastic man. If i were a str8 women id be banging down his door. Girls know, he knows but he says most girls are insane so its hard for him. Its crazy what great guys have to go through.
“gay men going deeper.”😅
As a bi guy I have nothing to add to the convo but I have also been intimately close with my hetero male friends
Thanks for sharing your perspective! Intimacy in friendships is diverse, and it's valuable to acknowledge and appreciate those connections. 👍
Gurl they want you to buy them a cell phone.
@@JustinJohn-j4r I don’t get it lol
I do very much appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. It actually makes me more receptive to the mental health messages and advice you all give.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad that honesty and vulnerability resonate with you.
Love this talk. Thank you for sharing. My first gay bar experience was Boyz Town in Calgary as well. Great memories. ❤
"Oh, Honey!" I chortled. 😆
The second speaker understands relationships with straight and gay men.
Love straight guys. Love them. Infact I prefer them over gay guys. But it doesn’t mean I am after them all the time. Like some of them think I am.
I have standards 😂. They have to meet with my standards 😂…& so do gay men. LoL
That’s my take on that.
TY👍reeeally interesting. Saddens me how vandalized my sexuality was. I suppose i'm bi, i had great sexual romantic experiences w/women. I also have a reservoir of anger/hatred of women. If i'm gonna be sexual w/a guy, i want one i KNOW likes guys. I have enough to worry about. Straight=automatic deterrent