How Christianity (Probably) Began - No Resurrection Required
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- Опубликовано: 1 фев 2020
- Reuploaded with permission of @Paulogia. Check out his channel for more great videos!
Is a resurrected Jesus actually necessary to explain the existence of Christianity? When presenting the case that Jesus rose from the dead, the Christian will often point to a set of historical facts which generally boil down to… Jesus was crucified, people claimed he rose from the dead, and now the church exists.
Now would an actual resurrection of Jesus explain these facts? I suppose. But a supernatural explanation can be used to explain anything. The better question is... is there a non-miraculous explanation for the existence and history of Christianity? Please indulge me for a minute and allow me to lay out one possible scenario…
For more videos like this, check out The Case Against the Resurrection playlist: • The Case Against the R...
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Don't forget that Christianity grew up as a religion among the slaves who provided all the hard work for the Roman Empire, based upon chattel slavery. The new religion gave the slave at least some hope of a better life elsewhere, and it was free to all comers, unlike the Roman religions. The stories about Jesus obviously developed over time and much of early Christianity was based upon Judaism.
Too bad both Judaism and Christianity are pro-slavery. Some Bibles translate the word to servant but the word 'Doulos' clearly means slave in Greek
Adymn Sani
Great statement and observation.
*Sapient Wisdom:* If you have been *groomed* to simply believe, you have no idea what has been taken from you. If you *chose* to believe, you have no idea what you gave away.
The Ocean writes a myriad of incredible lyrics about religions but one of my favorite lines is from the song Paleocene: “Give them back the truth they never had, walk away from the past that was never there”. It sums up the manipulation involved in religion pretty well, not just in misinformation and ignorance, but an actual indoctrination to reject new knowledge that challenges your beliefs.
There is no god there never was. Surely smart people can get beyond religion
Hey guys! God is real and He Loves You. Jesus is the Son of God come in the flesh and he died on the cross for all of our sins, he was buried and he rose again. He is alive forever more. Believe on him and have everlasting life. When I die I will be with him forever. If you don't believe in him before you die, when you die you will burn in hell forever. Please accept him before it's Eternally too late. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
@@maksudakhatun1234 lol Two religious twats arguing who's god is real. How utterly Sickening!!!
We should be enlightened by our own intelligence instead of believing in a phoney God’s blessings
@@slowjamcdub amen to that 😇 🙏
@@xijingpooh7312 and.. Where do you suppose you even got intelligence in the first place.. Smh, there had to be a source of intelligence first and that's God who is infinite intelligence..
Save this to your Easter playlist
That's pretty much the mainstream view. I think there are better explanations. I think the explanation that makes the most sense concerns two movements that were current at the time in Galilee and Judea: The Kingdom and the Savior movements. An historical Jesus eventually became more useful for both these movements to attract adherents. Since no one actually remembered a real Jesus walking around in Galilee, it became easy and believable to just write him in many decades after his supposed existence. Mark was probably written toward the end of the century, long after everyone was gone who had any memory of the first three decades. So Mark got by with it, and the other three gospels followed suit.
Paul? Paul never refers to an historical Jesus. Historical Jesus comes exclusively from Mark.
Thank you.
This seems like a weaker case than the case that Jesus was just plagiarized from the Odesey.
Excellent. Quick and to the point. I got a lot out of this video.
And that is being charitable, didn't even require a dude that actually believed he saw it. Anyone writing apocalyptic novels of the day, amalgams of the myriad legends, theologies and god stories of the day and regions in question.
A question and possible idea for a future video: Did the writers of the different pieces of what we call the New Testament ever think that they were writing definitive "scripture," that is, a continuation of the relatively well-established Hebrew Sciptures that they were always consulting for prophecies of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection, and clues to what it all meant.
Since they all thought that Christ was going to return very, very soon, were any of our authors, including Paul, thinking of themselves as writing for "posterity"? That seems so unlikely, given that they believed there was to be hardly any "posterity" at all. The world they knew was going to be swept away and replaced so soon!
I think it's hard or impossible for us to cast ourselves back to the first century and imagine the impulse to spread the good news as quickly and effectively as possible through preaching and writing. All this without any thought of the future.
What seems so established, so fixed in cement 2000 years later must have been primarily a constantly evolving movement of which we don't know very much until it begins to compile new"scripture" and more detailed doctrine a century or two after the original events.
It would be great if you could help us get into the heads of first-century Christians and their fundamental beliefs and hopes, but I don't know iff that's possible.
Why should we spend any time attempting to understand people who lived 2000 years ago? Personally, I’m only interested in how I think and how I can have the greatest amount of joy in my short existence. Getting sucked into this arguments are so boring.
troyfreedom Interesting question: I think it's probably a matter a person's interests - like preferring video games to stamp collecting. For myself, I've always - since childhood really - been interested in the past, and I think I need the past to understand the present, but that hardly holds true for most or we'd all be reading ancient history!
I've been focusing on the first century lately (in an on-and-off way) because it's so pivotal to the development of our own way of thinking about ourselves, our standards, our culture, and most other things in our lives. For that reason, I think it may be the most important century in the history of the Western World. But I emphasize that this is what I *think* - your own path in life is just leading you into a different train of thought, no better or worse than my own.
Ed Esso
Read a book titled “The Ego and it’s Own” by Max Stirner.
Yeah this is jus a fallacy exercise in I don't believe A is possible. So no matter how assigning, improbable, or weak B is, B is still always the answer. Thereby making B un-falsifiable
Very nice 👍🏻
Great video!
Personally, I think it assumes to much from the beginning. We can not know with any certainty since these events took place so long ago. Besides, how often in the course of your day are you affected by the life of someone 2000 years ago? The answer is zero.
I respect you as a considerate atheist. I, too, believe that there are countless psychological and sociological explanations for the existence of the gospel. But I also believe it is up to the individual to decide what is true. Because at the end of the day, I believe it’s just as arrogant to say that God doesn’t exist and plays no role for all that is as it is to say God does exist and is responsible for all that is.
We know it’s always up to the individual to decide. We are just need evidence, our arrogance has nothing to do with it.
Yeah and honestly, based on my experiences and knowledge, it takes more faith to believe that there is no God than there is a God. To me science explains how God does things.
@@AndreaRenwick But it takes so much ignorance (denial of science and common sense)to believe in the bible.
It depends on which god you're referring to here. There is 99.999% chance that none of the Gods of the world's religions exist. Why not just save yourself the burden and round off to 100% . But a god outside the confines of religion and scientifically plausible ,now such a being could exist though it's still a hypothesis that's yet to be tested. Though one may not have any reason to believe in any god until sufficient evidence is provided considering phenomena previously attributed to gods have been proven to be natural occurrences.
@@AndreaRenwick the only science which explains god is pseudoscience. And that's not really science.
Don't let Mel Gibson see this.
Do! Ram it down his throat
I embrace whatever wisdom is found in the Bible rather than its theology. It doesn't matter whether Jesus said it, or later writers added or modified verses. The Prodigal Son, The Good Samaritan, The Woman Condemned for Adultery, and Matthew 25:35-40 are of the highest moral standards. On this beautiful planet upon which we live, it is the humans who create the moral good and the moral evil. The rulers of empires and of the nations on this planet, whose minds are possessed by greed, malice, and deluded thinking, inflict the immeasurable death, destruction, and suffering upon innocent victims. ' 'You are like sheep among wolves.
' 'Be wise like a serpent, and innocent like a dove.' '
Other than his claims, what is the evidence that Sha.ul/Paul persecuted Christians?
Sounds like I reckon things happened. It would only take one person to have 'seen' Jesus after he died to get the resurrection story started.
This is fairly plausible, but ignores the well substantiated theory, accepted by a majority of biblical scholars and religious historians, of Saul/Paul's event on the road to Damascus being political theater, and his subsequent salvation and founding of numerous churches being deliberate fraud acting in concert with Roman politicians. Paul started was was codified in the Ecumenical Councils of Rome three centuries later, when Rome ended religious freedom and adopted Christianity as the state religion. The councils significantly shaped and edited theology to serve as a way to control people in service to the state. What Ye'shua taught differed from what Paul preached significantly. Paul hijacked Ye'shua's legacy in creating a fraudulent religion, based more on prevalent mythology from Zoroastrianism and Mithraism to appeal to Romans. Paul and Rome created Christianity, not Ye'shua. This is all based on well documented history, and is a widely accepted theory, not my wacko imaginings.
It was my understanding, the crucified remained on the cross and were not taken down for unmarked grave or math burial.
Crucified individuals were meant to serve as a public warning. Therefore remained on the cross to serve as a public statement for any considering following in their footsteps.
The remains left as carrion and scraps for scavengers. This was done on purpose, I've not heard of the mass grave account. However, not speaking as an authority, I'm allowing for other valid accounts.
you changed your name again :D
For the most part, I'd agree with this. It's likely Jesus, or whatever his name was at the time, did exist, had a following of some kind, and was crucified. I suspect his popularity wasn't even that large until far after his death, but that's aside what I wanted to point out. There is no doubt that the natural spreading of word from person to person has slowly transformed what was the original story, but this is probably the biggest mistake, in that he literally rose from the dead. It's true that he did conqueror death, but not with a miracle, but by understanding the nature of death. The ability to conqueror death isn't a unique privilege to Jesus, but a right to all. This is why Jesus brought himself down to the level of the poor, sick and homeless, because within them too lies God. That was the good news.
What about if I change my name to Jesus?
May I point out some additional logic that atheists are not considering? If life after death is real, the only way to know is within our own minds. Human beings can focus on both meditation and telepathy simultaneously. Meditation is NOT about achieving complete mental silence within for indefinite periods of time. Meditation is about watching and listening within ONLY. Like a movie or radio. If life after death is real, and if psychic mediums are real, it is discovered with meditation and focusing on telepathy. I personally hear voices within, and I know without any doubt that these voices are not my own thoughts or schizophrenia. They are messages from “another place”. Maybe another dimension of reality? Any real person will not force ideology or beliefs on other people. They will simply share ideas, and share respect and humility socially.
Well said. Smiling...Not my thing...has been my sentiment all along.
Let's all prey - a collective creepiness - when one couldn't exit stage left - in the nicest kindest way
No historical evidence disciples died the gospels anonymous and christians weren't martyred 24/7
I was ex christian now i m atheist. I was reading truth facts about religion. First in old part off bible heaven was newer mention. In later version was mention Person ho made christianity Roman king Constantin before belive in more gods. Adam had over 900 years when he died another joke story. Jesus Christ was newer born in 25 december that is date off god off sun. Hail marry storrie is actual story stoled from Babilon story about babilonian qouan Semimiramida her statue off Semimiramida is actual in New York city . That statue off liberty was gift from French mason to New York city. Cristmas is mixed betwean 5 different traditions . All family together that was idea from English writer Charles Dickens. Santa Clause and St Nicola are actual same person. Santa clause look with red and white is actual product off Coca Colla company. Puting balls on chridtmas tree is old tradion from old Irish people called druids. Story about creation first people are taken from Sumerian religion stories about how allien gods Anunaki create first people. Actuall Adam and Eva on old sumerian langunage is translate first people. Of course in sumerian old stories they had diffetent names for Adam and Eva. All prophets and kings had unrealistic age whenthey died in Sumerian religion some off thream they had over 20000 years. In egiption stories it was same case same like in christian stories about Adam ho had over 900 yers or Matusalem ho had 968 years or Noah ho had over 700 years. Just fary tell stories. Religion and politics were always closed each others. Avery country ho has too much religion is economic poor. Kess education and soo much criminal. All criminals donating monney in religion places to buy place in heaven .
mythology is made from myths it really strange why did you except every story as at really happened
By the way according to the story about Sodom and Gomorrah the Lord visits Abraham and I guess he's just like us he needs to be fed read it for yourself he has Sarah make bread and told them to lie under the tree so as to be comfortable so God I guess it's just like us needs to be fed needs to have rest I guess there's no difference please enlighten me what according to the scriptures I'm wrong
All of that: Highly plausible.
Although, I have my own preferred (equally plausible) theories for some keys parts.
There is no getting away from the fact that religion works. That’s not saying religion is real but it does work for people who believe it ... so religion obviously has its uses even though religion might be based on none or very little facts ...
For many people that is just not true. Far too often, religion encourages people to accept things as they are with the promise that all will be set right after death. Many people also believe that this world is meaningless and that the afterlife is the only thing that matters. They just pass through this life and only do things to prepare for the next life.
Religion works for the scumbags who use it to get money from gullible people.
Basically like induction...
bdf2718 yes but it also works for the gullible people. It must work even if it’s only to comfort people... religion works or it wouldn’t still be here
William Walker I disagree.. religion works for everyone involved with religion. If religion didn’t work then religion would not exist . You say religion encourages people to accept things as they are with the promise of life after death .. then obviously religion has to be working for them ?
If you look for a historical Jesus, good luck. You quickly find that you are on a ghost hunt. He has every character trait that can exist. Look at his character on the Rank-Raglan scale of heroes. He's a true whack-a-mole. The person described in the gospels is fundamentally different in character and attributes even among the Synoptics. He is a literary creation. (As are the Hebrew patriarchs upon whom the whole underlying OT is founded.) It's turtles all the way down.
Christianity can be accounted for without such a person. The combination of Philo's Logos and the existing Jewish angelology allowed for the development of a sect within Judaism that "found" these things within their scriptures. They conceived these things (including a heavenly savior figure) while retaining their Judaism. But, as sects are wont to do, they denigrate and fight with their rivals, and in the case of the original Jewish Christians, they saw their road to success in the evangelizing of the gentile "God Fearers" who were local pagans that recognized the Hebrew god, but were not ready to start mutilating their bodies and radically altering their diets; and so the sect turned towards a synthesis of pagan practices like the eucharist and having a god that dies and rises. The stuff about a real guy got added in the process of "paganizing" the bible, which is what the NT was meant to do.
I would encourage all of you to not waste anymore of your life on this subject matter. It’s pure horse shit! Now go and spend your time doing something that brings value to your personal life. Enjoy art, listening to music, make love, pet your dog, eat ice cream, etc. Religion is dying one mouse click at a time.
If you want a book recommendation, read Max Stirner’s “The Ego and it’s Own”
Have a nice life.
Kind of broaches the subject of Mary M., but if she was Jesus's wife then she could have had the same mental break as Peter did when she was at
Jesus's tomb.
I totally respect you being an Atheist, but ignoring the fact that Jesus' grave was visited by women first and that many other disciples besides Peter also claimed to have seen Jesus is just lazy. You should at least get your research done. :)
Jesus died for you was buried and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures
If you confess with your mouth Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved. Please repent of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior
Evidence?