Thank you for making a diagram, and explaining how it works. This makes it easier to understand. I don't even think they make that image tube anymore. Did this camera have interference shielding on it?
The tube was housed in a silicon & die cast case, I will have to re-silicon the voltage multiplyer, I have been doing some initial testing & my system works. Turns out the thing I though was a cap was actualy a 10Gig ohm resistor. So voltage detection for the PSU. The original video goes over the camera its self. Going to make a short video demoing it operating, however it has cronic screen burn, however I do have a new tube on the way. Glad my scematic helped. It helped me understand what was going on my self because how it was wired was a little confusing. It was made in the late 90s & is pretty old now. I think all modern stuff id Gen3, not sure if a Gen4 exsists yet. Aparently thanks to some help from others on the net it is a Gen1 which is not the most sensertive but is pretty easy to run when you have the high voltage.
@@TheEPROM9 that's great that you were able to find a new tube for it. Once fully operational, Would there be a way to show what the picture quality looks like, with it being analog and what not?
I was planing on building a version 2 that would be better with the new tube. Yep there is a way to show it, I would probaly use my phone as the lens is small enougth to shuve into a eye pice. I have taken a picture.
I think that bit of circuit that goes out, does measure the current the tube draws and is used to control the iris in the lens, so the tube is not damaged by light.
@@TheEPROM9 Sure, you operate by hand and not unattended like a security camera. I was just referring to the question in the video where you wondered what that bit of circuitry does.
This is a single stage Gen1 tube made from ceramic with fiber optic input and output windows, you need around 16KV to run them and make sure to add a very large resister on the HV side to limit the current on the tube or you will burn it out. You can buy ready made power supplies specifically for these tubes but i wouldn't bother because the performance of these tubes and the effort needed to setup lenses on either side of the tube isn't worth the time and effort. There is a popular Gen1 tube that is easy and cheap to get called an EEV P8079HP , it has 3x of the type of tube you have in this video glued together, cascaded, this give it 100,000x gain and is as good as early Gen3 tubes in performance, it even comes with the inverter and voltage multiplier built in so all you need to run them is 6V battery.There are lots of videos and instructions online on how to make a DIY night vision scope easily and cheap using the P8079HP tubes and the performance is very good. Second and third generation tubes look the same, have the same construction, same parts except the coatings on the photocathode, the gen3 photocathode is alot more sensitive to light. Second and third generation tubes also have a MCP (micro channel plate) inside them just before the screen which multiplies the electrons making the image alot brighter on the screen. The term generation isn't even used any more because there are tubes that are classed as gen2 far outperforming tubes that are classed as Gen3, so it makes the generation thing irrelevant when you are comparing performance. ruclips.net/video/m0-SgCeFnbw/видео.html
Intresting, I will have a play with some resistors, might solve some of the arking problems as I have managed to get it up & running. Has cronic screen burn issues so more treating it as a leaning experiance than a serious pice of kit. Used a hacked home brew solution you can see in my the next video.
@@TheEPROM9 you can re pot the tube and multiplier into a PVC pipe and use silicone as insulation , then just have your CCFL inverter wires enter the potted module. Or you can re pot (pot = fill with silicone) the tube the multiplier and inverter all into the one pvc pipe and have just the power wires exiting for connecting to a 9V battery. The proper module for driving a tube has 2 main protection features built in, BSP(Bright Spot Protection ) and ABS(Automatic Brightness Control), you dont need them to make the tube work but you need to be careful not to point it at anything bright or you could damage the tube easily. If you want i could send you a complete inverter/multiplier designed for russian made V-8 EP33 tubes, it isn't the same tube but it should work.
I like that idea with a PVC pipe, plus its not to hard to de-pot if needed later on. The voltage my fingers have already discovered can junmp round or though meany normal traditional insulators. Guess the electrons have a thirst for human flesh. The BSP would have probaly got its feed back from the viltage devider, I should probaly reuse that voltage devider as a high voltage probe for my meter, would be a handy thing to have. I would only use it at night, save destroying the rest of the tube. Oh yes, having another high voltage inverter would be handy =-) Thanks for the offer. I love old USSR tech.
@@TheEPROM9 If you want the good working Gen1 tube power supply, send me an address in PM, might be able to send you a second Gen1 power supply from another russian scope with a much larger tube+ the tube, tube still works but its weak. I could also send you the guts of a 3stage cascade Gen1 tube, It has 3x of the tubes you have in this video glued together.
That looks like a gen1 or gen1+ tube. It depends which photocathode material is used. The 18mm variety usually makes do with as low as 14kV. They require extremely low current. So you can drive it of a AA eneloop for weeks. Or with a momentary switch in a handheld device, it can run more than a year with normal use on hiking. I'm currently miniaturising a driver for a similar tube. I shall sketch it once I got it to a state I like.
Not a capacitor, but a 10Giga ohm resistor, used with the other resistor as a potential divider. CFL driver board output would work, though you probably will only need a few stages of multipler to get an output, or just use the transformer in place of the CFL one. Diodes are high voltage ones, basically a stack of 4 1N4007 dies in series, so they have a stand off voltage of around 3kV.
That would make sence for the voltge devider for the voltage feedback to the main HV control. Then I checked in in resistance with both my facy multimeter I got nothing, when I chcked it wih my capsitor testors I got a value. That is why I thugh it was a cap. I will have to play around with the stages to see what works. Also tanks for solving the mystry of the diods. I am not use to HV stuff like this so plenty to lean.
@@TheEPROM9 Try to connect the resistor in series with your multimeter, then connect the resistor to a highish voltage, around 40V, with the multimeter set to the 20V range, so it's input impedance is around 11M. Then you should see a few hundred millivolts of voltage, from the current flow through the large value resistor, which is then shown by a voltage drop across the 11M input impedance of the multimeter. If your meter has a near infinite input impedance on the low voltage range you might see it running into range switching continuously, as it flips from 1G to 11M input impedance every measuring cycle, so you need to manually hold the range there.
Thanks for the tip, I will try that. Crazy googleing the part number bought up nothing. Edit, worked a treat, will do the maths to work out the exsact value.
The tube does not output IR light, it is sensitive to it. It is a GEN1 tube. They do not have a resolution as they are a fully analog device, so its the optical resolving power of the lens used. Power source is about 15KV. I used a 12V CCFL inverter to drive a voltage multiplayer. GEN2 & GEN3 tubes use more than one HV source which makes them harder to drive from a home made setup.
I have about 6 air-poisoned ( no longer any good) Gen 2 MX-9916 intensifier tubes as well as 3 larger MX-9946 I think with thier power supplies ide be happy to donate you one of each…. If I didn’t assume you live outside the continental USA and if ITAR weren’t a thing ide go to prison for violating I think by doing so … I’m not sure they still fall under ITAR or not, but I think so…
I live in the UK. Shame some of that stuff is export controlled although if you just poped it in your hand baggage or suit case they would not care or notess. I have taken some dubious stuff on a plane in the hand luggage & security is none the wiser, I think they relay to much on the machine highlighting it to them these days than back in the 90s, seemed on point back then.
Thank you for making a diagram, and explaining how it works. This makes it easier to understand. I don't even think they make that image tube anymore. Did this camera have interference shielding on it?
The tube was housed in a silicon & die cast case, I will have to re-silicon the voltage multiplyer, I have been doing some initial testing & my system works. Turns out the thing I though was a cap was actualy a 10Gig ohm resistor. So voltage detection for the PSU. The original video goes over the camera its self. Going to make a short video demoing it operating, however it has cronic screen burn, however I do have a new tube on the way.
Glad my scematic helped. It helped me understand what was going on my self because how it was wired was a little confusing.
It was made in the late 90s & is pretty old now. I think all modern stuff id Gen3, not sure if a Gen4 exsists yet. Aparently thanks to some help from others on the net it is a Gen1 which is not the most sensertive but is pretty easy to run when you have the high voltage.
@@TheEPROM9 that's great that you were able to find a new tube for it. Once fully operational, Would there be a way to show what the picture quality looks like, with it being analog and what not?
I was planing on building a version 2 that would be better with the new tube. Yep there is a way to show it, I would probaly use my phone as the lens is small enougth to shuve into a eye pice. I have taken a picture.
MX9644 Gen 2 for a PVS4 you can use an electric flyswatter work well in testing old tubes.
I think that bit of circuit that goes out, does measure the current the tube draws and is used to control the iris in the lens, so the tube is not damaged by light.
Mine does not do anything fancy like that. Just a dumb step up convoerter that works rather well.
@@TheEPROM9 Sure, you operate by hand and not unattended like a security camera.
I was just referring to the question in the video where you wondered what that bit of circuitry does.
Very interesting video, actually I wasn't familiar with voltage multipliers until now
Thanks, I highly recomend BigClive, he plays with them a lot.
This is a single stage Gen1 tube made from ceramic with fiber optic input and output windows, you need around 16KV to run them and make sure to add a very large resister on the HV side to limit the current on the tube or you will burn it out. You can buy ready made power supplies specifically for these tubes but i wouldn't bother because the performance of these tubes and the effort needed to setup lenses on either side of the tube isn't worth the time and effort.
There is a popular Gen1 tube that is easy and cheap to get called an EEV P8079HP , it has 3x of the type of tube you have in this video glued together, cascaded, this give it 100,000x gain and is as good as early Gen3 tubes in performance, it even comes with the inverter and voltage multiplier built in so all you need to run them is 6V battery.There are lots of videos and instructions online on how to make a DIY night vision scope easily and cheap using the P8079HP tubes and the performance is very good.
Second and third generation tubes look the same, have the same construction, same parts except the coatings on the photocathode, the gen3 photocathode is alot more sensitive to light.
Second and third generation tubes also have a MCP (micro channel plate) inside them just before the screen which multiplies the electrons making the image alot brighter on the screen.
The term generation isn't even used any more because there are tubes that are classed as gen2 far outperforming tubes that are classed as Gen3, so it makes the generation thing irrelevant when you are comparing performance.
ruclips.net/video/m0-SgCeFnbw/видео.html
Intresting, I will have a play with some resistors, might solve some of the arking problems as I have managed to get it up & running. Has cronic screen burn issues so more treating it as a leaning experiance than a serious pice of kit. Used a hacked home brew solution you can see in my the next video.
@@TheEPROM9 you can re pot the tube and multiplier into a PVC pipe and use silicone as insulation , then just have your CCFL inverter wires enter the potted module.
Or you can re pot (pot = fill with silicone) the tube the multiplier and inverter all into the one pvc pipe and have just the power wires exiting for connecting to a 9V battery.
The proper module for driving a tube has 2 main protection features built in, BSP(Bright Spot Protection ) and ABS(Automatic Brightness Control), you dont need them to make the tube work but you need to be careful not to point it at anything bright or you could damage the tube easily.
If you want i could send you a complete inverter/multiplier designed for russian made V-8 EP33 tubes, it isn't the same tube but it should work.
I like that idea with a PVC pipe, plus its not to hard to de-pot if needed later on. The voltage my fingers have already discovered can junmp round or though meany normal traditional insulators. Guess the electrons have a thirst for human flesh.
The BSP would have probaly got its feed back from the viltage devider, I should probaly reuse that voltage devider as a high voltage probe for my meter, would be a handy thing to have. I would only use it at night, save destroying the rest of the tube.
Oh yes, having another high voltage inverter would be handy =-)
Thanks for the offer. I love old USSR tech.
@@TheEPROM9 If you want the good working Gen1 tube power supply, send me an address in PM, might be able to send you a second Gen1 power supply from another russian scope with a much larger tube+ the tube, tube still works but its weak.
I could also send you the guts of a 3stage cascade Gen1 tube, It has 3x of the tubes you have in this video glued together.
Have you got an email?
mine is siliconsimon@hotmail.co.uk.
That looks like a gen1 or gen1+ tube.
It depends which photocathode material is used.
The 18mm variety usually makes do with as low as 14kV.
They require extremely low current.
So you can drive it of a AA eneloop for weeks. Or with a momentary switch in a handheld device, it can run more than a year with normal use on hiking.
I'm currently miniaturising a driver for a similar tube.
I shall sketch it once I got it to a state I like.
That is what it looks like. This one was my proof of concept.
Anyone know how to fix a mx-10160 tube that won’t light up im assuming its the power supply but not sure
Just test the part individuality, the tubes only go bad by getting gassy or physically damaged.
Not a capacitor, but a 10Giga ohm resistor, used with the other resistor as a potential divider. CFL driver board output would work, though you probably will only need a few stages of multipler to get an output, or just use the transformer in place of the CFL one.
Diodes are high voltage ones, basically a stack of 4 1N4007 dies in series, so they have a stand off voltage of around 3kV.
That would make sence for the voltge devider for the voltage feedback to the main HV control. Then I checked in in resistance with both my facy multimeter I got nothing, when I chcked it wih my capsitor testors I got a value. That is why I thugh it was a cap.
I will have to play around with the stages to see what works. Also tanks for solving the mystry of the diods. I am not use to HV stuff like this so plenty to lean.
@@TheEPROM9 Try to connect the resistor in series with your multimeter, then connect the resistor to a highish voltage, around 40V, with the multimeter set to the 20V range, so it's input impedance is around 11M. Then you should see a few hundred millivolts of voltage, from the current flow through the large value resistor, which is then shown by a voltage drop across the 11M input impedance of the multimeter.
If your meter has a near infinite input impedance on the low voltage range you might see it running into range switching continuously, as it flips from 1G to 11M input impedance every measuring cycle, so you need to manually hold the range there.
Thanks for the tip, I will try that. Crazy googleing the part number bought up nothing.
Edit, worked a treat, will do the maths to work out the exsact value.
Can you tell us the specs? Like the screen resolution, IR light output, dimensions, and power source?
The tube does not output IR light, it is sensitive to it. It is a GEN1 tube. They do not have a resolution as they are a fully analog device, so its the optical resolving power of the lens used. Power source is about 15KV. I used a 12V CCFL inverter to drive a voltage multiplayer. GEN2 & GEN3 tubes use more than one HV source which makes them harder to drive from a home made setup.
Sir, I have a tube with PSU problem, it doesn't work in cold environment but normal in warm, do you think it is possible for me to fix it by myself
@@kerry1023 potentially. Could be a hairline fractur or just a fulty component. It will be an ass to track down the exact issue.
@@TheEPROM9 How did you open the shell? Was it a destructive disassembly?
@@kerry1023 the tube & voltage multiplier were potted so that bit was
@@TheEPROM9 Thank you. That's very helpful
Трубка очень похожа на ЭПВ36 производства завода МЭЛЗ, МОСКВА
Should keep an eye out for one. They work well cascaded together.
I have about 6 air-poisoned ( no longer any good) Gen 2 MX-9916 intensifier tubes as well as 3 larger MX-9946 I think with thier power supplies ide be happy to donate you one of each…. If I didn’t assume you live outside the continental USA and if ITAR weren’t a thing ide go to prison for violating I think by doing so … I’m not sure they still fall under ITAR or not, but I think so…
I live in the UK. Shame some of that stuff is export controlled although if you just poped it in your hand baggage or suit case they would not care or notess. I have taken some dubious stuff on a plane in the hand luggage & security is none the wiser, I think they relay to much on the machine highlighting it to them these days than back in the 90s, seemed on point back then.