Homophobic Bakery Goes Bankrupt
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2014
- "The owners of an Oregon bakery that made national headlines last year after turning away a pair of lesbian brides-to-be are now facing a fine of up to $150,000, which could reportedly leave them bankrupt.
Speaking at the conservative Values Voter Summit in Washington, D.C., Sweet Cakes by Melissa owners Aaron and Melissa Klein told The Daily Signal that such a fine would “definitely” be enough to bankrupt the couple and their five children.
“Ironically, the state was in violation of its own anti-discrimination laws,” Aaron Klein told the publication, pointing to the fact that federal judge didn't strike down Oregon's voter-approved ban on gay marriage until May 2014, well after the cake controversy."
Ana Kasparian ( / anakasparian , Cenk Uygur ( / cenkuyugr , Wes Clark Jr & Jimmy Dore ( / jimmy_dore ) break it down.
Read more from www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10...
**********
Drug Arrests Study, Skipping School, Homophobic Bakery & Drug Raid - The Young Turks 10/3/2014 Social Commentary
• Drug Arrests Study, Sk...
**********
The Largest Online News Show in the World. Hosted by Cenk Uygur and Ana Kasparian. LIVE STREAMING weekdays 6-8pm ET.
Young Turk (n), 1. Young progressive or insurgent member of an institution, movement, or political party. 2. Young person who rebels against authority or societal expectations. (American Heritage Dictionary)
The Young Turks (Winner - Best Political Podcast & Best Political News Site of 2009) were the first original talk show on Sirius satellite radio and the first live, daily webcast on the internet. But that is not the revolution.
We are a rare show that combines all of the news that people care about in one place. We are not afraid to talk about politics and entertainment and sports and pop culture. But that is not the revolution either.
The real revolution is in daring to be honest with people. We don't patronize our viewers or lie to them. We have real conversations and deliver the news honestly.
Download audio and video of the full two hour show on-demand + the members-only post game show by becoming a member at www.tytnetwork.com/subscribe/. Your membership supports the day to day operations and is vital for our continued success and growth.
Join The Young Turks Network mailing list www.tytnetwork.com/newsletter/
or Support The Young Turks by Subscribing ruclips.net/user/theyoungt...
Like Us on Facebook: / theyoungturks
Follow Us on Twitter: / theyoungturks
Support TYT for FREE by doing your Amazon shopping through this link (bookmark it!) www.amazon.com/?tag=theyoungtu...
Get your TYT Merch: shoptyt.com
**********
'Your Country Is Just Not That Into You: How the Media, Wall Street, and Both Political Parties Keep on Screwing You-Even After You’ve Moved On' by Jimmy Dore. Buy it here: goo.gl/t7GnDA
If she was a smart business owner, she would have made the cake and collected the money. Regardless of her feelings towards lesbians and gays.
She deserved to go out of business.
+simon madi Yep. In the decision, the bakers said they would have charged $600 for that cake. Would've been smarter to have made the cake and left a portion of the proceeds in their church's offering plate.
+Black Bat13. There are lots o
Only a group or a representative of a group that can legislate and enforce is capable of discrimination...sorry, when it happens that private citizens functioning in the private sector don't like you...IT AINT DISCRIMINATION!!!! Got an issue? Here's a tissue.
See previous answer/comment. You're asking for special treatment with such a question. No right has been removed, they just can't do it there. I live in a part of a state that doesn't hire ANYONE for public sector jobs unless they're a registered democrat...THAT'S DISCRIMINATION. What do we do about it? We change our registration when we think we may want to apply for such a position. See how easy that was? Not only do you want egg in your beer, you want someone else to crack it for you. NO RIGHT HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY!!!!!
I have a right to earn a living yet companies may choose to deny me in deference to another candidate. They are even permitted to deny me simply because I'm white and male....see where I'm going?
The baker clearly violated the public accommodation laws of the state of Oregon. She signed for a business license in that state, and by signing her license, she agrees to uphold the business laws of that state. She has nobody to blame but herself for closing up shop. If you can't follow the business laws of the state in which your business is located, then don't open up shop in the first place. It's not hard to figure out.
cunard61 business licenses are unlawful abridgments of human rights and do not apply.
cunard61 Freedom works both ways, if you will not allow for religious freedoms then whats next. And then when Muslims are in power will it be OK for them to push their laws on people?
cunard61 You're ignorant. The Constitution is the law of the land, not a totalitarian bigoted interest group. Homosexuality is a behavior. Behavior is a choice. Behavior is not an immutable characteristic. Religion is uniquely protected. The protected class scheme creates unprotected classes in order to deny those unprotected classes Equal Protection. The Founders' idea was that every American citizen would be a protected class. The goal is to make Jews the only protected class and have a repeat of the Jewish Bolsheviks' holocaust committed against Slavic Christians during the Bolshevik Revolution, which preceded German Socialists' Holocaust and exceeded the nSdap's body count. Now we have indentured servitude. Christians will soon lose their rights to raise their own children. Jews and leftist totalitarians will follow the Jewish supremacist Southern Poverty Law Center's characterization of Christianity as a hate group.
cunard61 so basically the law says you conduct business as long as you do what we say? Aren't businesses private? Isn't the license paid to conduct business but the business and the way you do it is, well, your business. And if a PRIVATE business, don't it has the RIGHT to not want to conduct business with whomever it does not want to.? Since when we have businesses to be told how to handle them?
freedomalert Obama is not Muslim. Just because he wants peace and not war against terrorism doesn't mean he is Muslim. I'm sorry you are so pro war and killing innocent people.
I own a business myself. I work my ass off and serve every single person who comes in the door regardless of gender, race, religion, political beliefs, lifestyle, ETC.
I'd like not to serve Trump voters or anyone who burns a flag. I'd like to not serve bigots and homophobes...But I serve everyone equally because that's what it means to be an American and a proper business owner.
L1Games People who voted for Trump voted for him because they want to make this country great again. I happen to know many Mexicans and black women who voted for Trump. He's not all that bad.
Le Avocado Almost my entire town are Mexicans and they hate him or they just dislike him
Spread It im not saying all Mexicans like him. But there are some who do because they had to come in the hard way (the legal way) and they want the ones who illegally came here to be deported because it wasn't easy for them.
L1Games I wouldn't serve someone who wouldn't serve someone else.
bravo sir
It's a private business. They had every right to turn away anyone they wanted. The gay couple acted like it was the only bakery in town.
TrollDoll The state in which they lived in probably had an anti-discrimination law. So if they actually got charged for deciding not to serve them the cake, they probably broke a law. Though I agree, the couple should've just went to another shop.
+ Marie DV: Hey Marie - yes, you are right - Oregon (the state where this bakery is located), just like every state in the USA (with the exception of Mississippi) has its own anti-discrimination laws; many cities and towns also have their own anti-discrimination laws. Oregon's legislature passed a law to include sexual orientation as a protected class back in 2007. All the lesbians did was let Oregon's governmental authority (BOLI) know that there was a violation of the law -- and BOLI, after its investigation (which included relying on the bakers' own words given in multiple interviews - with BOLI as well as the media), determined that they most certainly did violated Oregon law and that they intended to violate the law. PS: The lesbian couple did go to another bakery.
vreed lak72 I'd assumed they did, glad they got a tiny bit of justice from this. Though I feel bad she couldn't get a replica of her mom's cake. :/
+ Marie DV Well, they ended up getting 2 cakes - one they paid for and another one was given to them for free. They were happy with both.
What a lot of people don't realize is how greatly they suffered as a result of just letting Oregon know about a business that was breaking the law. They were in the process of adopting their 2 foster children, whose mother had passed away; the lesbian couple were their godparents. The bakers doxxed them and went on a media blitz -- so the lesbians got death threats - including some slipped under their front door AND the adoption agency threatened to not let the adoption go through if they couldn't keep the kids safe. This was all in the opinion - which is why the award ($135,000) ended up being so high. The lesbians still haven't received a dime of it yet -- it's sitting in an escrow account because the bakers have appealed the decision -- and they have a right wing law firm representing them pro bono. The title of this video is misleading - the bakers never declared bankruptcy and actually made a profit - because they raised over $500,000 through crowdfunding But the lesbians are getting blamed by a lot of people because the bakers had to close their business -- which was solely due the bakers publicizing their bigotry; it backfired on them because a lot of their customers elected to buy their baked goods elsewhere and a lot of wedding vendors decided not to use them anymore.
In the 2nd interview they've given to date (they've only given 2 local interviews in total) - the lesbians revealed that their landlord also elected not to renew their lease - out of fear of vandalism because of all of the threats. And they subsequently had a hard time finding other housing because other landlords felt the same way.
+vreed lak72 Wow, thank you for sharing this story.
I don't feel one bit sorry for those people. You treat every customer the same: With respect. No one gives a shit if you don't like gays, bake them the goddamn cake anyway if you want money. It doesn't matter if the wedding cake is for 2 gays, interracial, old, or even Amish; it's a cake.
I'm atheist, and if a person came into my store and said, ''I want a Catholic themed cake,'' I'll do it. It's a customer, they get what they want. Period. I could disagree all I want about their religion and say there is no god, but, you don't. You take the order, make the fucking cake, and then you shut up.
ᏰᏗşιℓ maybe the gay couple should say, "fine well go somewhere else!" they dont have to bake a cake for a gay couple if they dont want to, its their right to do that.
MegaMatt And they lose business that way, which made them bankrupt. Their own fault, I don't feel bad at all.
they turned down one customer.
MegaMatt Yep, and now bankrupt.
MegaMatt Nah, anyone can go on a business's website and complain or Facebook. Everyone decided that if these people had that attitude after the law has been passed, then why support them?
I've gone into places where the employees and managers gave me shit, (I was actually in Sephora,) and thought that I, as a guy, should not be in the store unless I am buying something, and had this attitude like, 'He's a dude, what's he going to buy in this store? Probably nothing.'
It's like, 'Fine, if you think just because I'm a guy in a mostly female oriented store, then I'll leave.' And I will never support stores or shops that discriminate like that. These people are no different.
She put her heart and hate into those cakes.
+Keith Manfredi That sweet, sweet hate. It's the secret ingredient that makes them so tasty.
Georgia Sturtzel
What? I'm not religious.
I was making a joke about it, actually. Pity it went over your head.
Vik Ing
Very well then I just untagged you from that comment....
VFosterer
And religions should stop using gays as a cop out and pay taxes on their filthy pedophile tax free bank account
+Keith Manfredi xD
I live in Oregon. People have the wrong idea about what happened. Here is what I learned through local news outlets and released court documents.
The Lesbian couple in question were regular
customers of that bakery. They had been for years. So naturally, when they
decided to get married, they went to their favorite bakery to order their cake.
Upon learning this couple were Lesbians, the Kliens had a meltdown &
refused to serve them. Shocked & hurt, the Lesbian couple filed a complaint with the Oregon Board
of Labor, as is their right. Upon discovering that this couple had filed a complaint against them, the Kliens
then took it upon themselves to publish the personal contact information of
this couple, including their names, address & phone numbers. Due to this
malicious action it was the Oregon Board of Labor who sued the Kliens.
The large punitive award is due to the malicious action of the Klines, NOT
because they refused to bake the cake. Only $1,000 of that judgement was for
the cake.
Wow! That information should be more widely known. Thanks for adding that info! What a horrible thing, to have a business go completely unprofessional and act trashy. .................................................... Either way, I think the outcome fits the behavior, only this makes even more justice from the injustice caused to the couple, who had a heavy betrayal on top of it all. I'm sure they may have felt the owners liked them, and they probably did, ***which proves, People, that gay people are just people, and you like them or not usually bc of personaiity, not whether or not they are gay. Your life gets saved by gay people, even without your knowledge (police and military); they feed, clothe, and shelter you; supply your electricity, gas, water, and cable; stock the shelves of every store your shop in, build the car you drive, the products you use daily, anything a human does, they do. Because they are humans.
i live in tigard, or. know where it is?
Also to add the amount of death threats they received caused them to move added onto the fact that the only reason they were getting married is because their friend had died and the two were adopting the dead womens daughter.
2112Nightshift then they got what they deserved then!
Something else that was not noted is that it got so bad that they had to up and move out of the city.
You went bankrupt due to your own hate, deal with it.
+MegaHOCKEY09 first of all, that has nothing to do with the topic. second, when your religion and law says X is deserving of death, then yes, you deserve mockery and discrimination.
No she went bankrupt do to government violence
Also, Islam isn't a race, it's a religion.
You know very well that the bakers didn't declare bankruptcy. As I previously pointed out to you, the bakers raised over $500,000 in crowdfunding, which was more than enough to pay the $135,000 judgment. I also informed you that they voluntarily closed their storefront - because they lost customers due to their stupid business decision to make their homophobia and their poor customer service well known by giving numerous local and national interviews -- which is what you were advocating for when you previously stated that the lesbians should've just gone to a different bakery (and so they did, and so did a whole lot of other people).
"Government violence" - so you're saying a government agent went and beat the shit out of these two bigots. Proof please.
Your lies and your unwillingness to answer basic questions are starting to expose you as an anti-intellectual homophobic bigot.
They had every right to refuse service for any reason. Separation from church and state, does out Bill of Rights matter anymore, whats next our 2nd amendment rights being taken away.
Good. Homophobia doesn't pay.
Actually in this case it does the money just goes to the liberals.
I am sorry for these folks. Their bakery was their livelihood and the lady is obviously very invested in her work.
However, none of that, not a word of it, allows you to discriminate against people who just want a freaking cake.
Someone wanting to buy a cake should not have to pass your moral litmus test.
John Galt"Vindictive hate filled gay couple..."
Yep, lots of them running around trying to buy wedding cakes.
And its just awful when Vindictive Hate Filled Gay Couples use their rights a citizens to gain redress through the Federal Courts.
Who do they think they are? Americans?
John Galt What the bakery did to the gay couple is the VERY DEFINITION of discrimination. And I would do the same thing the gay couple did over and over to any other hate-filled bakery who thought they could discriminate and get away with it. In fact, I can hardly wait until my gay marriage because I will search until I find a Christian business to refuse so that I can sue them and shut their bigoted business down. If you're a bigot, you don't deserve to be a business owner and should know that we don't support anti freedom nonsense in the US. The U.S. is a country based on FREEDOM which includes the freedom to marry the consenting adult of your choice. Anyone who would discriminate against someone because they don't like gay marriage is driven by nothing other than bigotry and hatred and you don't deserve to live in a free country so you should probably leave. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. The baker has no moral compass in thinking she can treat people as second class citizens, and it's kind of ironic how so many people who call themselves 'christians' have no moral compass. The bible doesn't instruct Christians to deny business to homosexuals or anyone else. If we allowed people to discriminate based on any perceived 'religious belief', then we would be no better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, which is probably where people who think like you belong.
Robert Judd how was it discrimination? the bakery refused to promote/endorse gay marriage! that is clearly a freedom of speech issue and a freedom of religion issue! how is it any different from a gay bakery refusing to bake for a christian anti gay event? or a Jewish bakery refusing to bake for a Nazi event, or a black bakery refusing to bake for a white supremacy event? the fact is you are promoting bigotry! YOU ARE A BIGOT, YOU ARE A RELIGIOUS BIGOT! If you do not like free speech and freedom of religion leave america and move to china!
John Galt Its different because a Federal Court says its different.
Its different because two homosexuals getting married is not about hate, violence or bigotry.
Free speech does not include your right to discriminate against others.
There is also no prohibition in the bible against selling a homosexual a cake.
If you cannot accept that we give homosexuals all the rights of citizenship and protect their rights with the same mechanism we protect everyone else's, there are other countries where you can live in where your opinion has the force of law.
Iran is one that springs to mind.
Waltham1892 free speech does not make any distinction with the type of speech, so explain why gays get to discriminate against Christians and gay can be bigots? the bible clearly states that marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman, it also clearly states that sexual relations out side of marriage is a sin! so how would endorsing a sin not be a sin? how is forcing a business to endorse a relationship that violated their beliefs a right?
EXPLAIN AGAIN again how is it any different from a gay bakery refusing to bake for a christian anti gay event? or a Jewish bakery refusing to bake for a Nazi event, or a black bakery refusing to bake for a white supremacy event?
This is why you keep personal shit out of your work place.
"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business." ~ Michael Corleone to his older brother, Sonny.
What a Bitch!
Lady Deadpool 💋 great quote
jondeare melodramatic bitch
it was fredo, sonny got killed in the toll booth
Lady Deadpool 💋 idiot
urg these fake homophobic tears made me almost puke!
Losing a business that you've worked your heart out to create hurts. Her actions and discrimination were wrong. But her tears over losing her brainchild, source of income, and profession were genuine and legitimate.
Its NOT DISCRIMINATION.
+MOJO89OTDT guess you don't know what that word means, then
Yep....age of activism!!!!
+blarg69man soo what your saying is someone could open a shop and refuse blacks service and it would be acceptable.
Why does the owner play the victim, there are laws against discrimination for a reason.
You can say, they should've just asked another business for the cake, but that's not the issue, the issue is the discrimination.
First it's the gays, then the black, then the jews and any other minority group that wants to BUY a service, notice I capitalized because it's business, if she was willing to disregard this couples payment, why should she cry over her business being bankrupt?
I don't feel sorry for saying what I'm saying because, this should not be tolerated under any circumstances.
Man, how is that not discriminating against the gay couple? Just because a personal ideology backs it up, doesn't make it logical or reasonable.
When they agreed to make the business, they knew what they were getting into, racial discrimination used as an example makes perfect sense in response to your other reply, there is virtually no difference in discriminating against race and sexual orientation.
First Amandment has no place when it's being used as an excuse to not serve in public accomodations, it's against the law and by current default of lower priority when compared to Civil Rights.
Oh and no, they are not selfish human feces, if someone breakes the law, you must do something about it, specially if it's discrimination, turning a blind eye only allows for discrimination and prejudice to continue and spread, they had consequences for their decisions, that simple.
Lexus Fox Its not discrimination because they were not refusing service because of the couples sexual orientation they were refusing service to a specific event they were being asked to endorse.. how is that so difficult to comprehend? It's no different from a gay baker refusing to endorse an anti gay event by supplying baked goods to that event!
John Galt Do more research on the case and you will see that these individuals gladly served to other purposes that also go against their religion, such as pagan ceremonies, human cloning, divorce and out of wedlock newborn babies, this shows the hipocricy behind the owners and the actual discrimination that took place, they don't actually care about their religious stance, and cherry picking verses is what unvalidates your argument, I know you're christian and you feel compelled to defend people who share your same notions but you're repeating the same argument which has already been debunked, it was indeed discrimination, these are not opinions, these are facts.
Lexus Fox how do you know that! do you even know what church they belong to? their are a number of christian faiths and and not all agree in their doctrine! the issue of divorce is generally only an issue with Catholics, baptist don't see anything wrong with divorce.. and how many people celebrate their divorces and request a bakery to cater a divorce party? how many human cloning party's have you heard of? and how would celebrating the life of a child or providing aid to the mother be considered a sin for any christian religion? and how many parties are held in celebration of out of wedlock baby mothers? I realize that you are ignorance of religions has lead you to make false assumptions. which is why you call your assumptions facts, when in reality they hold no resemblance to facts or reality...
When they took the case to court, they investigated the christian owners and placed the order to see if it was actual religion what prohibited them to sell the cake or if it was simple bigotry, what I stated where documented facts, not assumptions.
The basis behind all of your past arguments have been to defend your own beliefs, cognitive dissonance if I had to label it.
I wont reply further, I have no more points to prove.
probably been easier just to bake the damn cake
right
+emma duncan ...a lot easier, and more financially rewarding.
+jlc4015 I'm sure the couple didn't seek out homophobic bakery's in their area. I'm sure had they known beforehand that the bakery wouldn't make them a cake based on their sexual orientation, they would have gone to a different bakery.
+jlc4015 your argument is that intolerance should also be tolerated. You're basically flipping the script to try to validate your argument, but it really doesn't work. If you can't bake cakes for both gay and straight couples in the 21st century then your bakery may well go out of business when people realize you are intolerant. Why do you think "those lesbians and gays are indeed intentionally targeting Christian bakers"? Is this part of the gay agenda as well? Doesn't make any sense.
jlc4015
Where is the link to gay bakers refusing to serve Christians? Because I keep seeing people quote it but never provide a link of it actually happening.
I have no sympathy for anyone or business that discriminates. It's called karma!!!
Virgina Madero agreed
What really sucks is that Melissa caused almost as much damage to the couple as they did to their own business by releasing their private information, which is the long way of saying that they were doxxed. Mind you, that's a modern day sin.
AMEN TO THAT!
@@WillieManga Melissa committed a crime, the second one was way worse than the first one! So JUSTICE IS SERVED... PERIOD
Personally if my fiancé and I were told by a business that they wouldn't serve us based on us being two women, I wouldn't want their damn cake anyway.
That's what happened in this case - the lesbian couple took their business elsewhere; the only other thing they did was report illegal behavior to Oregon's authorities, which elected to pursue a case against the bakers.
vreed lak72 , they elected to oppress the bakers and destroy their business with a humongous fine.
+Bernie Who do you mean "they" - in "they elected to oppress the bakers and destroy their business with a ... fine"
It's not the lesbians or gay people. It was Oregon's agency, BOLI, that enforced Oregon's law and made the decision. That agency also awarded over 1/4 million to a Christian woman who had to put up with her Scientologist employer who tried to convert her on the job -- was the Christian woman oppressing the Scientologist?
And, the bakers'' business was not destroyed by a fine -- the baker raised more than 1/2 million via crowdfunding and paid the judgment in full in December 2015. They closed their storefront back in 2013 -- after the bakers (not the lesbians) went on a media blitz about this case -- which backfired on them. As they themselves stated at the Voter Values Summit, they lost customers and wedding vendors stopped recommending them.
the couple received death threats presumably by people that the bakers knew
Knuxiefan I never thought the minute would come when I'd find a comment you wrote and didn't copy and paste from me. Thanks for that but please stop copying and pasting my comments everywhere. It's a bit creepy and it's annoying since I spent 10 minutes writing that for someone else to come along and copy it.
And what did we learn today, kids?
Karma's a bitch, and that's why we love her.
I'm back brah
Cute Cat And still cute I see.
So what's been going on with you, little cat?
WeeItsNookies .... Well... would you not think that karma was created by people that use it as a coping mechanism to why their life is so awesome? I've never heard that many people say "Man my life sucks because i'm a shitty person". I'm just a little confused by your logic. It seems as if you actually might think backwards?
WeeItsNookies In layman terms i'm saying your a fucking moron...
I'm a gay man but I don't think they should be forced to bake ANY cake regardless of the reason even for blacks or mexican or whatever. Unless they are receiving taxpayer dollars they can refuse service to anyone.
Thank you for showing why Libertarians are sub-human and the only acceptable group to discriminate against.
Uh...they're using public roads, public electricity, public water...if there's a fire, city firemen will put it out, if there's a break-in, city police will arrive... Did you conveniently forget all of that?
***** Wow. We have a secular government. We have to follow secular laws. They are made to protect everyone, including minorities...from the majority. I'm sorry you don't like that. You can always move to a place where religion is the rule, like Iran. Otherwise, when you use public space, that is paid for by TAXPAYERS, you have to treat everyone EQUALLY.
*****
"We have to follow secular laws. They are made to protect everyone, including minorities...from the majority"
"So Nazi laws were acceptable to protect German people from Jews". That is what your statement amounts to.
bighands69 Nazi's were the opposite of secular , Slappy.
I am from Oregon and SHE DOES NOT represent other Oregon people. Her tears are nothing short of selfish and she makes me sick!
You went bankrupt? it's okay, signs of human progression.
Dillon Blair I like how you call them: "The Gays" that's classic. But yeah dude, listen this is free market, no one wants their cakes because they are homophobes. In the cake business you don't live on repeat customers you need new business- many of which are young millennials who aren't comfortable with bigotry. Plus, the government already taxes them, regulates their building size in and out and performs regular health inspections, so sell me that "conservative government control BS" when you start having problems with all those other measures which consistently get updated and expanded.
Dillon Blair I have a problem with volunteer moral policing. Just treat every adult equal. No body's morals is your damn business.
+Dillon Blair I don't have any problem with anyone reporting illegal behavior to the government. Otherwise, the offending party will get away with it and laws will eventually have no effect at all . And, you're talking out of your ass. The lesbians didn't go to this bakery to "force" or to "have the government force" these bakers to believe homosexuality or gay marriage is moral. They came in for a cake.
According to an undercover investigation by a local newspaper, Willamette Week, these bakers were more than happy to make cakes for many non-Christian events (including a cake WITH A PENTAGRAM on it for a group of pagans celebrating the solstice). So, it appears that these bakers were more than willing to violate their Christian beliefs by making cakes - so what's the big deal if they made one for a lesbian wedding?
+Dillon Blair YOU ARE WRONG.. Clearly you're unfamiliar with civil rights laws that have been on the books for over 50 years. The Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title II makes it illegal for public accommodations to discriminate against customers solely based on certain characteristics, such as race, religion and national origin (sex was added later). The Americans With Disabilities Act was passed to protect persons with disabilities. Most states have their own anti-discrimination laws - some which include characteristics such as age or sexual orientation.
Segregation existed for about 100 years after the Civil War - in part because businesses open to the public (such as supermarkets, restaurants, gas stations) refused to serve black people - thereby making it impossible for black people to live in certain areas. Many businesses provide crucial services (a tow truck service, a hospital) - so customers who were discriminated against often met horrible fates. Those are some of the reasons why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.
These are the words from a case, in which a restaurant owner refused to serve black people in his restaurant because his Baptist religious beliefs prohibited the intermingling of the races. See NEWMAN v. PIGGIE PARK ENTERPRISES, INC. 256 F.Supp. 941 (1966). "Neither is the court impressed by defendant Bessinger's contention that the judicial enforcement of the public accommodations provisions of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 upon which this suit is predicated violates the free exercise of his religious beliefs in contravention of the First Amendment to the Constitution. It is unquestioned that the First Amendment prohibits compulsion by law of any creed or the practice of any form of religion, but it also safeguards the free exercise of one's chosen religion. Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421, 82 S.Ct. 1261, 8 L.Ed.2d 601 (1962). The free exercise of one's beliefs, however, as distinguished from the absolute right to a belief, is subject to regulation when religious acts require accommodation to society. United States v. Ballard, 322 U.S. 78, 64 S.Ct. 882, 88 L.Ed. 1148 (1944) (Mails to defraud); Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. 145, 25 L.Ed. 244 (1878) (polygamy conviction); Prince v. Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 321 U.S. 158, 64 S.Ct. 438, 88 L.Ed. 645 (1943) (minor in company of ward distributing religious literature in violation of statute). Undoubtedly defendant Bessinger has a constitutional right to espouse the religious beliefs of his own choosing, however, he does not have the absolute right to exercise and practice such beliefs in utter disregard of the clear constitutional rights of other citizens. This court refuses to lend credence or support to his position that he has a constitutional right to refuse to serve members of the Negro race in his business establishments upon the ground that to do so would violate his sacred religious beliefs."
The law makes no distinction re; the form of ownership of a business. It does not matter if it's a publicly traded company or a sole proprietorship. If an individual's religious beliefs really conflict with the laws governing public accommodations, then the only solution is to not operate a business open to the public. A person (whose religious beliefs incorporate a doctrine of kindness towards all creatures) should not operate a restaurant in a state that requires regular visits by exterminators.
I haven't seen you deride Christians for getting the government involved - I pointed out to you in a different post that case about the Christian who REPORTED TO THE GOVERNMENT that he felt he was being discriminated against by the Denver bakery. Just to show that you're not discriminating against homosexuals, I would like you to make the following statement in your next post -- based solely on that one case: "This is why I don't like the Christian community. They went to a private business and demanded equality at the barrel of a gun." SOMETHING TELLS ME THAT YOU WON'T DO IT.
PS: I also previously pointed out to you that this bakery had to close its doors because it lost customers due to the bakers' homophobia and poor customer service, which the bakers made well known by giving numerous local and national interviews. THE GOVERNMENT DID NOT CLOSE THEM DOWN AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN DECLARE BANKRUPTCY. The only thing a government agency did was award the lesbians $135,000, which the bakers paid in full in December 2015 - after they raised more than $500,000 through crowdfunding - so they actually made a profit off of their illegal behavior.
+Dillon Blair: Why do you believe you're normal and gays/lesbians are not? Homosexuality, in human beings, has been recorded behavior for thousands of years (see the ancient Greeks). Our closest relatives, species-wise, the bonobos, are bisexual (i.e., engage in heterosexual and homosexual behavior); and homosexual behavior has been observed in many other animal species - from giraffes to elephants to dolphins to swans to penguins. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
PS: Homophobia is highly correlated with a sexual interest in those of the same sex. See: www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/
Perhaps you need to seriously address your own sexual attractions - instead of spreading misinformation in the comments section of a youtube video.
True, homosexuals in Texas (as well as their supporters) could always elect to leave the state. Or, like all Americans, they have the right to petition the government to change the law (either via the legislature or through the judicial system). It worked in Indiana recently. North Carolina is also facing a lot of backlash (in the form of boycotts) for its bigotry - so that pressure may change the laws in that state - especially after the November elections.
She's not there to force her religious beliefs. She's there to run a business. Unless it's a religious business, she had no right. I feel this way as a Christian.
+Danny M Links?
+Danny M Balls in your court holmes. Show me links where gays have refused service to christians.
+Danny M He sued the "gay bakery" too...arguing there was a double standard. She disagreed arguing that she didn't turn his order down because he was christian, it was because he was asking her to put hateful/derogatory comments and images on the cakes. She said she would not accept any order that would ask for anything similar to the hate speech he wanted, thus no discrimination.The courts agreed and dismissed his case for that reason. Dont think they cover constitutional law in the bible though. Pretty sure it has a whole chapter which teaches the virtues of common decency and showing respect for your fellow man, and stresses that passing judgement on others is a sin as bad as any other and those who do will not be welcomed into heaven, because thats Gods responsibility alone. Personally, I havent read thru the bible lately, but I do remember that much.
+Emily Newkirk Stalin was a Christian too.
Danny M Thats why hes on the list.
Not only did they clearly violate Oregon state law, but they also shared the couple's address on facebook which resulted in death threats and quite seriously threatened the couple's custody over their foster children. They nearly destroyed the family. Keep those tears coming, Melissa.
She's crying about cake 😂😂😂
I think I'm going to bake a cake!
Javi Ruiz Don't forget the rainbow sprinkles!!😋
+Mariposa axy 😂😂😂
"Have your cake and eat her too" was the slogan of the wedding after that.
Mariposa axy she's crying because the land of the free. is only for gays.
she is the worse, playing the public with fake hyperventilating nosies.
Do you even know what hyperventilating is?
It's kinda fun to watch when ppl do it.
I'm a former medic, I know when ppl are actually HVing.
Medical proof please?
Is she worse than Laura Lee tho
I remember doing a video on this story. I had people
making comments like "it's their business, and they
can do whatever they want." Sure, they can do what
they wish but, they have to deal with the consequences. That is what they are doing now, and they deserve it.
Agreed (btw you have some good content)
The only more hilarious thing would be if her husband left her for a man.
SpadaccinoLuciano Hes not ready to come out Yet. LOL
Benjafovi1 CR
😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😄
Much like if you would get into an accident and your head goes through the window, and die slowly while watching life fade from your eyes.
Yeah, okay.
give it time...
S. Garr. Ehh thats more edgy than funny
So many scream about the business' rights to conduct business with who they want to/CHOOSE to. Yet, scream foul when the public voices their opinion by boycotting their business. Interesting concept.
all she had to do was say, I don't have time, but instead she wanted controversy, she got it.
They did it to them self
The punishment for the baker is just fair and right. That judgment sends a message to everyone that you cannot discriminate, plain and simple. They just learned it the hard way.
Squiggle1212 This is the problem with the whole gay agenda, there are lots and lots of places where people can patronize, there is absolutely no reason to force their BS on anyone, period, end of story!
The truth is, none of the bakeries that have had law suites thrown at them, refused to sell anyone a cake. What if the guy would have come into this store and said, "Hello, I'm gay, can I buy a cake?" His business would not have been refused. So, this is NOT a matter of discrimination and it never has been. This is an issue of forcing people to contradict their deeply held beliefs, AND THAT IS AN INJUSTICE!!!
There is no gay agenda to speak of.
Squiggle1212 Except for the agenda of expecting and demanding equal opportunity and equal treatment under the law granted all citizens of the USA. How dare they *;)* ?
Squiggle1212 uuuuuuuummmmmmmm. maybe they just didnt want to bake a cake because they followed a religion. ever think of that fucknut
+megamatt, you are an imbecile!
Holy fuck, did they really just charge this woman 150k for refusing to make a gay couple a cake? Look, I'm pro gay rights, I don't like the fact that she did it, but I think she definitely has the right to! Baking and cake decorating isn't just serving someone at starbucks, it's an art, and if someone commissions a piece from you, you have every right to discriminate against your clients. I came into this story thinking, I hope people fucking boycotted her business and that's how she went under, but no, she got fucked because of some arbitrarily massive fine from ONE client! I'm sorry but pissing off one client shouldn't run you 150k unless you're some huge company like mcdonalds who needs to be taken down a peg and throws that kind of money around as a cost of doing business.
Private business is not a Private State or Private Religion so you cant be utterly immune from laws-- which have measures to do with discrimination. Especially you clearly say so-- how real businesses get away with it. Due to them never saying they discriminate. They brought it on themselves unfortunately, due, to their own honesty. Obviously people stopped shopping too-- Free Market decided no? So people obviously stopped shopping at them.
If the government doesnt stop it, then people will make a 2nd class citizenship themselves, remember "whites only"? Is that allowed in the US?
I can see where you're coming from, and I would agree if they were just coming in to buy some cake off the table, but they wanted something made custom for them. Imagine someone going into a body shop owned by a black guy and asking for white power across his car. He shouldn't have to do that because art is a form of expression, and you shouldn't have to give expression to things you don't believe in.
Dave
How is it? whites only systems had to be removed by force by the US government because people will not change and accept without force in the USA.
DashCat9 Maybe not a perfect analogy, but you get the point. Art is personal, and a form of speech.
This needs to happen to all the homophobic businesses on the planet. This video fills me with hope that humanity is progressing forward.
GothicGamer2012 No not at all. I don't know why you are FORCED to accept somebodies lifestyle if you are for whatever reason dead against it. Losing everything just because you wouldn't make a cake for a lesbian is a little much.
GothicGamer2012
I agree, if they can't be civilized!!!
+Joe Massino I am not saying they must accept a gay person's lifestyle. I am saying they shouldn't deny service to a gay person over a mere opinion of lifestyle preference.
I never said they should be forced to "accept" someone's lifestyle, they should be forced to give unbiased service regardless of opinion.
I made this clear in my last comment. I have no intention of telling people what their opinions should be. Gay people may be the worst people under the sun to you, I don't care. What I do care about is unprofessional, biased business over something as ridiculous as an opinion.
+Joe Massino They weren't being forced to accept someone's lifestyle or sexuality. They were being asked to obey constitutionally acceptable laws governing commerce that apply to all of the other businesses in Oregon. Please note that the government never shut them down - nor did they declare bankruptcy; after the bakers (not the lesbians or the state of Oregon) went on a media blitz about this case, their community learned of and became disgusted by their behavior (including doxxing the lesbians), so they did what the bakers wanted the lesbians to do (and did) - they took their business elsewhere.
Why is this news? every time a black person or gay person does not get their way they run to the media and cry discrimination. Of course the media eats it up. Gays and the like need to realize not everybody is going to like them and deal with it.
the only color and sex that the person should be worried about is the color green on the money and what man is on it
Mark Morales Hey or what woman is on it. And some countries have different coloured money😄
Niicce!😁😎
"Religious freedom" is the new "state's rights": a sugar-coated way for people to say, "I should have the freedom to repress other people's freedom".
No you should not.
No, people in the antebellum south, it was not your "right" to own slaves. No, modern Christians, it is not your "right" to discriminate against LGBT people.
Please remember, if you are a service business then you have to follow the laws that govern these businesses. The cake place does not have the right to discriminate against gays, they are not individuals, they are a business. Rights in the constitution are for individuals, not businesses.
Individuals run businesses, individuals shouldn't lose rights when they come together, otherwise rights are totally useless. This totally violates freedom of association.
kathy kelly freedom of association : violated for fifty years.
kathy kelly Operating a business is a privilege, not a right. The state grants you right to conduct commerce in accordance with the law. Refuse to obey the law, that privilege gets revoked. What about this is so hard to understand?
***** Apparently lots to some!
***** who are you or the state to grant this privilege?
As a business owner, you have he right to refuse business to anyone. However, this is the inevitable consequence of your hatred and discrimination. You choose not to serve certain people based on race, orientation, religion, etc., then you choose not to do business. What an odd bend for a business owner.
No. You'r wrong. There are anti-discrimination laws that prohibit a business from refusing to serve a customer solely based on certain customer characteristics. See, e.g., the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (which prohibited discrimination based on race).
45 states have such laws - and several of them prohibit sexual orientation discrimination.
You are correct in that one cannot refuse service based on any specific condition covered by the CRA 1964, however, one can circumvent that by just refusing outright with no explanation. But as I mentioned in my previous post, this is bad for business. This also is not all encompassing, of course. Medical services can not be denied regardless, but someone buying a cake...? If someone refused to make a cake because I am gay, I would simply not do business with that person or their associates ever. The results are now obvious...bankruptcy.
A few points:
(i) The CRA isn't just the only anti-discrimination law covering "public accommodations". At the federal law, there's also the Americans with Disabilities Act. 45 states (and many cities) have their own anti-discrimination laws -- which cover much of the same (as well as additional categories).
(ii) Absolutely true -- that a business can refuse to serve a customer outright with no explanation. However, that "could" be bad for business -- just like you said. Now, the business would still be breaking the law -- it would just make it harder to prove -- but, an Oregonian bakery could still get into trouble if, say, 2 or 3 gay couples go on to Yelp to complain that they were weirdly denied a wedding cake for no reason (and one of them, or a Yelp reader, decides to inform Oregon of suspected illegal discrimination).. [In truth, I think a bakery would be smarter to say that they were already overbooked for that day - or that they're going on vacation -- i.e., give some kind of plausible explanation.]
(iii) Your refusal to do business with a homophobic business is rational -- and that's what's happened in these few cases as well A long time gay customer of a Washington florist no longer goes there after the owner refused to do an arrangement for his wedding. The lesbian couple in Oregon got their cake elsewhere. But laws were still violated and these incidents were reported to the appropriate governmental authorities and the laws were enforced. This Oregon bakery is the only "homophobic" business that has closed as a result of discriminating -- because they lost customers after they themselves elected to publicize the case; the Washington florist is still in business --- all she's done is remove all custom arrangements for weddings from her menu.
(iii) Medical services can be denied. Yes, they are subject to these anti-discrimination laws as well; and emergency rooms cannot deny service (according to a different law) due to certain other factors (such as lack of ability to pay). For example, a Catholic hospital recently won the right to refuse to do tubal ligations (and they most certainly do not provide abortions). See: talkingpointsmemo.com/news/rebecca-chamorro-tubal-ligation-catholic-hospital
I think your view might have been different if you WERE gay, and had run into this kind of discrimination over and over again. Sadly we can't force the owners of this bakery to accept gay people or support equal rights for all, but we can force them to run their business in accordance to the law, and punish them if they break it. Discrimination ruins lives, and the hatred and lack of social acceptance kills so many teenagers every year. Personally I hope more people get taken to court for discrimination. If that was a very real risk, it might stop businesses like this from doing it.
When you believe in something that promotes hate, that makes you a hater. People have the right to be haters and stand up for what they believe, but it is bad for business. I do not hate them for being hateful, I pity them their ignorance.
That was a piece of cake to lose your business
joshua kettle Haha nice one
joshua kettle -They think that they are doing it for Jesus.
Bro lmao
Christians have to abide by the law. Christians cannot discriminate based on sexuality and thats just it. If they don't like to be put in these situations then don't get a job that would.
Freedom of religion means to freely practice your religion (within reason), your religion has no stance on government law such as non discriminatory acts... its quite simple you simply cannot get special treatment just because you follow a book.
Nikka Thompson we may not have stance on government but we have something much better and that is being able to make it to heaven when god returns. i dont care if i have nothing for america as long as i have god then im better than great.
IEnvySpoons It's nice you believe that you are superior to everyone else.. But until you get to heaven try and respect everyone first.
Nikka Thompson i dont think im superior than everyone else i dont need to be because ive got god and i love him
Nikka Thompson lady i dont think im superior to anyone else. I believe in god because he belives in me and helps me whenever i am sturggling. my 3 year old sister was diagnosed with lukimea cancer. my family and i were so scared because it was very serious we prayed to god everynight and she recoverd so well the doctors were in shock at how amazing she recoverd. mariah is doing great now and we still thank god for everything he does for us. he has done hundreds of miracles for us by just simply praying to him. god is my rock he taketh me through the green pastures so that i may drink. i love him and hes all i need so i would listen to all his word no matter what people say, like you
IEnvySpoons So your telling me she was cured of cancer without medical intervention? And was cured magically by only prayers?
And are you saying God rather favor your 3 year old sister rather then the millions of babies dying everyday from treatable diseases or starvation? It just seems weird that a God like that would exist. Just allowing people to die everyday and suffer but you believe him because your sister was medically cured? You give all the credit to God but nothing to the medicine and science that actually found the cure for your sister...
It sounds like you do think you are superior to other people.
When she cries: YES SUFFER. YOUR PAIN, IT TASTES SO GOOD. I'M ALMOST CRYING IN HAPPINESS AND PLEASURE, IT'S PURE BLISS, I CAN'T EVEN FEEL BAD ABOUT IT BECAUSE YOU ARE SUCH A SOCIOPATHIC, HORRIBLE EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING. IS IT WRONG TO ENJOY KARMA THIS MUCH? I THINK IT IS.
Caio Sempronio
Well that's rude. If you mean people like me, that's one thing. I'm a cruel sadistic jackass. But it seems you mean gays. Why get them involved let alone call for hate fueled murder against them? And it isn't "assassinated" it's "murdered". I'm not gay. Would you say the same about blacks if she'd turned away a black couple? I'd say the same thing I said. Because I feel like she is a terrible person to discriminate like that, no matter who it's against, and I thus enjoy seeing her pain.
Caio Sempronio
That doesn't really make me suffer. At all. Nor does my family dying really. But obviously you're a worse person than me, so you in fact deserve that, or the equivalent that would make you suffer so.
It's called schadenfreude.
Prejudiced bakery goes out of business = free market at work
Free market is an ideal. It does not exist. It cannot exist. A market needs rules to reinforce ownership and support a means of exchange. A free market is chaos.
It shuts down the argument, that same sex "marriage" would not affect others. To equate same sex "marriage" with inter-racial marriage, is not a valid analogy. The purpose of a marital relationship is to produce children. A same sex couple cannot do this. People with sincerely held religious beliefs, should not be compelled to validate the tenets to which they adhere.
If the purpose of a marital relationship is to produce children, then why are there no fertility requirements in order to get a marriage certificate? Elderly heterosexuals who are way beyond child-bearing years are allowed to marry. Heterosexual men who've had vasectomies or are sterile can marry - so can women who've had hysterectomies. Does the government force heterosexual married couples to get a divorce and pay back the government for all of those marital benefits they've received if they fail to bear children?
And, what about adoptions? Are you saying that adopted children are of lesser worth than biological children? Many same-sex and heterosexual couples adopt children.
Many people have sincerely held religious beliefs. It's never an excuse to violate the law - otherwise it would be anarchy. Can a person whose sincerely held religious beliefs that include human sacrifice be allowed to murder someone?
And, I don't really see how making a cake for someone to eat at an event is somehow a validation of that event - otherwise, these bakers would not have been so willing to make cakes for several non-Christian activities (as exposed by an undercover investigation by Willamette Week, who revealed that they were willing to make a cake WITH A PENTAGRAM on it for a group of pagans celebrating the solstice. If the bakers sincerely believe that they'll go to hell if one of their cakes is eaten at a same-sex wedding, then the only solution would be for them to not operate a bakery. What's to prevent a lesbian from lying to this baker and saying the cake is for a heterosexual wedding? What's to prevent a lesbian from buying a pre-made cake or cupcakes in the display counter for a wedding ceremony.
vreed lak72 your comment is gold🙌🏽Marriage is not about kids at all, it's about two people be joined together. If the two people in question happen to want kids they are allowed to do so in any way they wish whether it be biologically or by adoption or anything.
I'm glad this happened to them!!!!!!!!! Cry away! I'm not gay, I just think that's just as bad as being racist. Who cares if someone is gay. Stupid people. What a horrible person you are for hating people and not wanting to treat them as a person. Because we are all people!
+Danny M
*The law does not apply equally; gays have a free pass to refuse serving Christians and in my opinion, THAT is bigoted...and abusive and unfair. That is the reason why so many people supported these bakers.*
Since that is false and the exact opposite is true, that xians have a free pass to refuse gays, you then agree that that's bigoted, and abusive, and unfair? Will you now financially supports gays given how unequal things are?
Georgia Sturtzel
Oh, agreed. The RCC went to extraordinary lengths to protect and defend all their pedos, while also threatening and bullying the victims. _Children_ were threatened with excommunication while the priests never were.
And they even had the balls to ask all their parishioners to donate extra money to help with their legal costs. Legal costs of hiding and defending all their pedos.
Bloonk M
Its also sick to blame a group of people for a heinous crime they they didnt do either...
Im really sick and tired of people like Aka Joe saying shit that isnt true....
You may also want to read the others posts saying they would keep their children away from gay men....So its not me who is sick here...
When people get their information right then you can call me what ever you like
There is plenty of research for people who are over the age of 10 to prove that straight men and women are more likely to molest children so go get educated then tell me who the sick ones really are...got it!!
If all you freaks can say shit about a group of people then dont whindge when I say things back
Sorcerer
What about men that rape girls...another person who has no idea what they are on about
Screw off, imbecile. People have the right to serve whoever they want if it is THEIR business.
*So if I went into a cake shop owned by a couple of lesbians and asked them to attend and cater for a christian celebration party celebrating traditional marriage and to make a cake with the words "God bless traditional marriage - gay marriage is no marriage" written on it , I guess the lesbians wouldn't have a problem with that then ?*
*The door of pluralism swings both ways - something many seem to forget !*
BloodOfYeshuaMessiah
They probably would have a problem with it, especially if you ask them to put a verse from the bible or the Quran. Good luck trying to sue them though. :P
BloodOfYeshuaMessiah The lesbians are business owners; they'd only have a problem if you refuse to pay up after they've done the cake
BloodOfYeshuaMessiah They would probably not be super happy about it but money talks. I would bake them the best cake ever. So, i can take their money.
Oh yes, I think that would be the case for many people. However, I would also recognize and respect that for some people, moral principles are more important than profits.
BloodOfYeshuaMessiah you've fallen into the trap of twisted logic with your original comment.
they... did this to themselves....
No statist like you did
Stuart agreed
@@soularch17 get out
Having lived in Oregon. This has nothing to do with cake. It has to do with a baker who posted on social media how they how they stood up against the gay couple and that they had a foster child too! Posted their phone number and address. So the baker brought it on her self. The lesbian couple were tormented because of the baker and almost lost the child because social services were concerned for the child. These bakers are hypocrites.
I'm not rasist or homophobic AT ALL but honestly the only bully I see in this case is the gay couple! Forcing some one to go bankrupt just because they don't want to work with you.. Was that stupid revenge so necessary?Lol
penelope d Yes. Because a commercial has to serve any customer regardless of his/her sexual preferences, skin color, political or religious belief - although I wouldn't do anything for a nazi if that allowed him/her to become more visible.
you're one of those people who says "i'm not homophobic, i have a bicurious friend!", right?
axreason what exactly sounds homophobic in my comment?
Those signs are disgusting and I would never aprove of that. All I'm saying is that I feel bad for the owners for getting bankrupt. It has nothing to do with being gay or not. I 100% support gay rights and I have nothing against black people. I didn't want this to come out racist
penelope d
"All I'm saying is that I feel bad for the owners for getting bankrupt."
Cunts never make their way through hard times. It's like they chose to shot themselves in the foot.
You can't open a business to the public and then refuse to serve someone because you don't like their lifestyle. Sorry. Good riddance . You and your hate can go elsewhere.
agreed
captcorajus it’s not a lifestyle, it’s a sexual orientation.
captcorajus according to free marketing yes she can. If someone refuses you service you go somewhere else. Nobody owes you a thing.
TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU 👍🏽
Not really... you cant just exile the haters... These people a serious sociopaths... they should not be walking the streets.
Welp!.....guess that's the way the cookie crumbled!
Dd Tt XD
If you own a business, do you really care who your clients love, if their money is green?
These people certainly set themselves up to fail. As such, they deserve all the negativity that is coming their way.
maybe she doesnt know a gay wedding cake is the same as a straight wedding cake except there are 2 of the same statues on the top. why not just charge them for 2 sets of straight statues if it's such a big deal? does she really have that severe of OCD?
I just hope this teaches her a lesson about runing a business in the open public
someone should order a cake from them with no frosting and then do a circle jerk bukkake onto the cake and send it back just ot see how much she cries about it.
Jim20 they're the same as the straight statues. there are just 2 of the same ones instead of 1 of each kind.
Jim20 the statues don't need have a sexual orientation. they just need to match what the people at the wedding are wearing. obviously this is the only difference between a straight wedding cake and a gay wedding cake.
great point brick. the fact they didnt just take their money proves they have no interest in being a successful business.
She's crying because she can never make a cake again? Buck up buttercup.
lol I think that she is crying because now she has to see gay people happy
If you're open to the public, then, service the public!
The whole thing was a recipe for disaster
lmfao
OMG DONE
+Gooners Rule (Goonersrule) Heh.
+Gooners Rule (Goonersrule) Yes - Brilliant.
+Gooners Rule (Goonersrule) Get it? Because you use a recipe to make cakes!! I'll stop
Hypothetical: What if a KKK couple wanted a KKK-themed cake for their wedding and a shop refused to make it? Does that couple deserve to be serviced like anyone else or can the shop refuse it because it's against their morals?
xD they can sue you for it and might win...
Yes, bakeries can and regularly refuse to make offensive cakes (like Swastikas). The difference is that you cannot discriminate based on what people ARE. The gay couple just wanted a cake. If they wanted to make a buttfucking cake, the bakery can say no.
kinghumanity But who defines what is offensive? In this case, the shop owners considered a same sex wedding cake to be offensive because of their religious beliefs. You and I might disagree with that, but who gets to decide what's offensive? The shop owner? The public? The government?
clearcutter74 actually they would be obligated to not discriminate. this has actually happened. the KKK may be a racist organization, but if they go to a public store then they must be served. now if they did something untoward during the transaction then yes they could be refused service.
clearcutter74
Against the law
You cannot serve the public and discriminate. A private club can..
The irony is the woman crying about how special her cakes are to her says, “sometimes it would take a couple of hours to find just the right design, and if they were to ask me to bake the cake for them...” (something like that). The intensity of her emotion and her love for what she does, she does not realize people who fall in love and want to get married are going through that same process... much bigger. Gay, lesbian, straight or other. It seems strange she can’t transfer her cake empathy to real people who have found that perfect “cake” or partner, you know? 💗🌸💗 Please wake up people like this to humanity
Just bake the damn cake, its none of her business what it will be for.
it is her business if your asking her business to get involved
pick up the can citizen
wolfgang jack Posted 3 hours ago, HL3 confirmed!
kathy kelly No its not, you are paying her to perform a job. What you do with the cake is not her business.
You could literally have her waste hours designing and making the cake only to throw it in her face after she is done.
You are paying her for a product not for her opinion about a subject.
So you think it is acceptable for a law to be created that punishes people for their religious views.
Segregation laws were disgusting to be honest.
Laws that attack people for their religious view is just as disgusting.
It was illegal in Ireland to be gay up until 1993. Gay men had to leave Ireland before this because of the fear of prosecution.
"just bake the damn cake, its none of her business what it will be for"
You have just made a flippant remark. What if that couple had children. There family life would have been ruined.
This was a business. Refusing service, or turning away money probably wasn't the smartest thing in general to do. As a business person she probably should have realized this could be bad publicity or that there might be a discrimination suit. Pragmatism would have dictated two potentially smart moves: accept the job then claim to be overbooked and refund the deposit as quickly as possible and refer them elsewhere, no harm no foul, no bad press, no consequences. OR alternatively, just bake the cake, take their money and disagree with their life decision in the privacy of your home as is your right.
It's really not that complicated. But because of the idea of "free speech" which does not work they people think it does, and because corporations are people, business owners think they can express or behave how they like without some potential consequences. If you have closely held beliefs that go against your business interest, you are always going to have to make a hard call as to what you value, that is something every business person accepts.
Being a lawyer means that you will defend guilty people sometimes, being a doctor means sometimes you will save the life of a criminal, being a server sometimes means you are feeding a convicted felon. Your personal feelings and beliefs don't change the fact you have a job to do.
This woman made a decision that her closely held beliefs were more important to her than keeping her shop open and providing her employees with job security. Maybe this would have played out differently for her 20 years ago, but she has seen the news, she has seen the trend, she knows the score. Personally feel for any business owner who suffers having to see their business fold, I truly do. On the other hand I would also say she knew better or should have. If she had to do it over, I'm pretty sure for how much she loved her business she would have done things differently if she knew it would come to this, and that is the honest truth that tells you where you really stand and what you really value. If baking their cake meant continuing to bake lovely cakes for other couples, I think now she'd have just done it.
Well written. Thank you.
I don't think she would. If she held her beliefs deeply she would still refuse. Because in her heart the greatest gift is waiting for her in heaven. IF she folds and bakes the cake then she goes against what she believes. If you don't stand behind what you believe and are willing to fold under pressure then why believe in it?
How is baking a cake going against her beliefs? I bet she's made a cake for hundreds of adulterers and gosh darn it a fuck tonne of people who blaspheme. I could go on....I won't
I give you my like sir for a good post.
well said
For everone who does not understand this, imagine a retailer that refused to sell to blacks or biracial couples. So, this is no different. Discrimination is just wrong.
All actions have consequences!
They should have NOT only gotten a fine! They should have gotten their kids taken away, their bank accounts voided and their house foreclosed on!
"Liberals are so tolerant" Yeah we are.. But hate speech doesn't fly with me, can we deny race at bakery's?
Sure, but bankrupting the company
a) will not make the business owners tolerant of gay people
b) is detrimental to the economy, while liberals ponder why the economy is shit.
Agreed. as I always say "Do No Harm, but Take No Shit"
Dylan Lacey Because on lesbian wedding cakes? The owners made the choice to take the fine over serving homosexuals. Too bad, so sad.
Dylan Lacey
a)They will never be tolerant of gay people no matter what.
b)Yes, their small, independent bakery is so detrimental to the overall economy. "Oh no! That tiny little bakery in Po'dunk, Whatever State They Come From went out of business and now the national economy is taking a complete nosedive!"
Please, the closing of their little bigoted cake operation didn't even effect the local economy of whatever backwood hicktown it was based in.
You could, if you have 150k for jesus!
When you are in a business that involves public accommodation, the rules about discrimination are different from what they are in your personal life. If you are serving the general public you have to deal with people who seek the services you offer in a fair and equal manner. It is because civil rights laws are in effect. Yes, your individual rights are limited. These laws exist because we have decided as a society that unlimited discrimination is wrong.
Well said!
Religion is supposed to be separated from church and state. If you open a business, you now belong to the state. Want to discriminate, open your shop in a church.
Awww poor woman..Maybe she should not have thought it was ok to pick who her customers were.. She makes me sick. She got what she deserved.. Other peoples lives, and what they do with their lives is none of her business..She should have just shut her mouth, and made her dam cakes, and her biz would still be booming..
They are applauding for fake tears? Strange people in the USA.
Fuck I want to open KKKake
"White flour! White flour!"
Think about it? If you are a gay couple and you knowingly ask people to bake your wedding cake when you knowingly know they don't approve of your life style then they are only doing it out of vindictiveness.
Would a black couple seek out a bakery that is known in their community to be run by racists to give them their business?
The lesbians didn't know these bakers were homophobic until one of the lesbians and her mother went to the cake tasting - that's when the male baker learned that it was for a same sex wedding, refused to make the cake and quoted Leviticus. The lesbian went to this bakery because it had made the cake for her mother's remarriage a couple of years before and she wanted the same cake.
Why are you placing the burden on gay people to guess the level of homophobia of the owners of every public accommodation (i.e., businesses that are open to the public) they may shop at or want to shop at. After all, in this case, the bakery was located in Oregon, which enacted anti-discrimination laws protecting customers on the basis of their sexual orientation back in 2007 -- so shouldn't the burden be on the bakers to OBEY THE LAW.
PS: The lesbians, of course, did not get their cake from this bakery -- all they did was report illegal behavior to the government -- something that thousands of Americans do every single day. And, what you described - about a black couple not seeking out a bakery owned by racists - is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. After the lesbians reported the bakery's illegal behavior, the bakers decided to give several local and national interviews -- so they made it very clear to their community that they were homophobic - so gay people and their supporters elected to buy their baked goods elsewhere and the bakery had to close its storefront due to lack of customers (i.e., they actually didn't declare bankruptcy as stated in the title of this video -- they raised enough money via crowdfunding and paid the penalty in full back in December 2015).
I thought businesses had the right to serve whomever they wanted.
That's the defense people used when they didn't want to serve black people. People are afforded the opportunity to govern themselves a great deal in this country, and these people make me think we aren't capable of doing that ethically.
xr7fan I guess it's possible it is a logical fallacy, but you would have to explain where you think the fallacy lies, that's your obligation when you claim a fallacy.
xr7fan No, false equivalence is generic, not a specific step in this logical argument where you believe I went wrong. To prove this is false equivalency the onus is on you to prove that this specific issue of discriminatory behavior is different from the specific instance of discriminatory behavior of racial bias. My argument is based on peer-reviewed studies which indicate that being gay is an innate part of a human being, and not a choice one can make. A person who is drunk and belligerent has made a choice to become inebriated and therefor is not afforded the same right to patronize any shop they please. Being black is an innate part of a human being and not a choice one can make. That is where the equivalency begins and ends. Of course if you do not believe being gay is innate, you can argue that there exists in this argument some false equivalency, but that is a difficult case to make as not many respected studies support it.
xr7fan You have not remained focused on the issue at hand, to prove that there is a false equivalency problem. It is not an issue of a wedding, it is an issue because it is specifically a gay wedding, that is the only thing that differentiates this wedding from any other wedding she may have baked for. If we hold to that logic she would have always been disgusted by baking wedding cakes, which is not true, she is disgusted by the idea that it is a gay wedding, just like businesses were disgusted by black people using the same bathrooms as white people. That was an issue of a bathroom in the same way this is an issue of a wedding. The real issue is what differentiates this client from every other.
***** No, private businesses claimed their right to religious freedom as an excuse for racial profiling far beyond the illegalization of Jim Crow laws. Even actual religious groups claimed religious freedoms as an excuse to exclude black people. Mormons for example didn't allow black people to participate in most of their services until the late 70's. But businesses used the same excuse to discriminate for years.
She got what she deserved. Turning away people because they don't fit your ideas is discrimination. As for the people supporting her, saying that is is her right. Imagine this. Instead of her refusing to bake a cake let's turn it around. Let's say she went to a clothing shop run by a muslim and they would refuse to serve her on religious reasons. Pretty sure it would produce a cry for outrage on fox 'news'. Rights and freedoms are two way streets.
Give the girl an Oscar at the Values Summit.
They have a right to kick people out, but based on crimes like violence or disturbing the peace, not on demographic. That's just Jim Crow and that's wrong.
No hate: People are saying that all girl gyms are discriminatory, but what about all the other products being sold to men, razor blades, deodorant, shoes -I wore boys shoes for years cause they where comfortable. I'm saying if it's discrimination to have an all girls gym. There technically can't be any services or products (to a certain extent) serving any gender then. I'm just saying you guys have your own stuff that is exclusively your own too. But again if you want gender desegregation then all other products can't be shown as exclusively for men as well.
They don't have a blanket right to throw anyone out based on demographics. See, e.g., the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title II, which currently prohibits discrimination by a public accommodation (i.e., a business that is open to the public) on the basis of race, religion, national origin and gender. An exception to this law (that is deliberately put into the statute) are "private clubs", which was never defined.
It is the "private club" exception that all women's gyms rely on. A public accommodation has characteristics such as being open to the public and selling products/services at a price; whereas a "private club" has membership dues (that allow members and only members, and perhaps members' guests, to use its facilities - just like private country clubs, some of which are all-male). As state discrimination laws and interpretation of them vary, an all female gym may not be permissible in some states under state law -- if that particular state doesn't feel the gym qualifies for an exception under the state's anti-discrimination laws.
Don't shoot the messenger, I'm trying to explain this exception.
Any manufacturer of goods has the right to describe his product as being for men or women (he's only prohibited by law from doing things like making false statements about the ingredients or effectiveness of the product); however, a business open to the public cannot refuse to sell a product based on the gender of the customer (a man cannot be refused sale of a pregnancy kit at a drugstore open to the public - based solely on his gender; and a public shoe store selling only men's shoes cannot refuse to sell a pair to a woman solely based on her gender).
vreed lak72 , yes and does your mother wear combat boots?
+ Bernie Why yes she does. Does yours?
Just tell them you plan on closing your doors that weekend and go on vacation. Now, the point to this is. They were actually friends with the gay customers for many years. The gay couple didn't press charges. The GOVERNMENT DID.
Her actions caused her to lose her business. Actions have consequences. This is her fault.
I don't see why a lawsuit had to be filed here - uh, just don't buy your fucking cake there? Seriously, buy your extravagant wedding cake for hundreds of dollars from some other business, spread the word and the homophobic company will just be out all that money. This news would cripple their business, anyway, there's no need to spend millions on lawsuits on this bullshit.
If someone really doesn't want to take your money that badly just don't give it to them. It's not like we're talking about something that would harm the couple like make them lose their job or put them out on the street or harm their health. It's a big luxurious expression of sentiment and wealth and little else.
They probably didn't buy their cake there, but that bakery still violated the law and that couple had every right to ask the government to make them pay for it.
ChakatBlackstar
Nazi Germany took Jewish assets because of the Jews beliefs. This is just the same and for you to tolerate this is just shocking.
There are people out their who have different beliefs from you and me and why should we have a right to attack their belief.
bighands69
but their assets weren't taken for Christian beliefs, it was taken for violating the law. Most Christians operate every day without a problem. Why should these guys get an exemption just because they run a business.
ChakatBlackstar you nailed it! good job. so many people on here trying to bring up false equivalencies and their own arbitrary definitions to over rule what is written in law.
It's a right to refuse service not a law.
NO - see. e.g., the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title II.
Boo hoo why are they clapping for her.
Hypothetical situation: You're on back roads traveling, your vehicle is severely low on gas so you pull into the nearest station, when you proceed to pump gas, the owner comes out and stops you and refuses to let you have any gas because of . I GUARANTEE this would be a problem for anyone, especially those who think this cake shop owner did a positive thing. Empathy people, let's have a little empathy here please.
Oregon law is that you can't discriminate against race, sexual orientation, religion etc. Now if she hadn't told them why she decided not to do their cake, she'd be in her legal rights. But since she said "I can't bake a cake for you because it's against my religion." Sorry that's not ok. In Oregon, your religion can not be brought into your business, small or big. You have to leave your religion and opinions at the door.
so very true, and by that, she knew she was breaking this law
She had a choice. She made it. Now she has to deal with the consequences.
My comment seems to be misleading in some way... Please allow me to clarify. I don't care what her motives were for the choice she made... I am merely stating the fact that SHE had a choice to make, SHE evaluated the pros and cons of each of the choices she faced and the possible outcomes of each, and SHE decided what to do. So she now has to face the consequences of that choice. Simple as that. That being said, if you would like to blame me for her starving children please feel free. I'm also the cause of hurricanes, floods and volcanic eruptions across the world. My apologies, God's like me get a bit bored sometimes with all this power.
@dragon quest fan well then she clearly doesn't understand the intricacies and fragility of the human ego and the full extent to which people would go to protect what they feel is owed to them and their "right". Again, that ignorance is largely due to the choices she has made in her life.
I'm pro logic and pro making informed decisions. I know that might sound like I'm discriminating against her but that's just my opinion which I have a "right" too.
@My Self I agreed. We all have the right to our opinions and I have the utmost respect for you and yours irrespective of whether I agree with them or not. That being said, I personally feel that if your policy has the potential to negatively affect your fellow human being then I have no sympathy for any negative consequence that comes your way as a result. In the same way that you had no sympathy for the feelings or well being of the person or people you inflicted your beliefs and prejudices upon.
@My Self please clarify which part is the sin... is it the baking of a cake for a sinner (for lack of a better word), or is it being gay which is the sin? Because I may not know much when it come to bible literature by I'm almost certain Jesus did not turn away sinners. He preached love for all did he not?
A bakery isn't a church.
to christians it is
they gonna carry their bigotry and hate with them everywhere they go
Melissa is crying crocodile tears. She says, "I'd feel so honoured to be apart of such a special day." Unless it's a gay couple, the F-U!
Karma at its Finest.
That women who was speaking was asking for WAY to much pity for her business
Seriously appalling and unbelievably nauseating that she wants pity for being homophobic
So let me get this straight....She baked Cupcakes but refused to sell them to the Cupcake customers that came in to purchase them?....Hmmm..how ironic...just call this Karma at its best.
Something I don't get is, you want to keep your business running, right?
Why would you turn away anyone who is willing to spend thousands, to whatever dollars on your product... why would you turn them away because, they are gay, or lesbian or black or whatever they are that you personally don't agree with?
I don't discriminate against anything but stupidity.
If I had a business, the only time I would deny someone's money is if they were causing trouble in my shop.
they don't get my product and I don't get their money.
that isn't a bad lose.
I just don't understand.
perfectsplit that is out of date.
Assuming they don't have a swastika tattooed on their face, how are you to know that off the bat? Same sex marriage is the fucking same thing as opposite sex marriage. They want the same things, they say the same things.
essentially, they do the same thing.
Also, if I were running a business TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF IT I WOULD NOT SEND SOMEONE Out fOr beING OPPOSED TO ME.
I WANT THEIR MONEY, THEY WANT MY PRODUCT, IT IS A FUCKING BUSINESS TRANSACTION NOT A FUCKING FRIENDSHIP.
perfectsplit Um.. your definition of marriage is so flawed. Marriage does not mean procreation. There are straight married couples who cannot produce a child due to infertility and other biological barriers.
I'm gay, but i think this is kind of a travesty. It was a bakery, not a politician. Does causing her to lose her business really worth teaching her a lesson? She's been ruined. Her livelihood has been destroyed because she wouldn't bake a cake for another gay couple.
How can we hope for understanding and acceptance from the opposition if we go around destroying businesses for people who don't contribute to the actual issues facing us, such as legislation to limit our rights?
"Religions have hated for years". So very true.
the hell is she crying for
her money
She is crying because she realizes she is not a free person but a slave to the state
Self-pity.
Youre truly stupid to have to ask.
It's sad they had to lose their business. I don't think that was necessary.
But you can't be a bigot. Don't choose to discriminate. Simples.
No - what would be sad is if they KEPT their business while continuing to discriminate against customers. Apparently their bigotry means more to them than maintaining a lawful business in the United States of America. They made their choice and these are the consequences. Don't shed any crocodile tears for them because this is exactly what should have happened.
IamSpacedad
What I mean by sad is people unable to see the error of their thinking. Yes they have only themselves to blame. I just don't celebrate this situation: I'm the bigger person. I don't discriminate.
Answer this question then and if you cannot answer it you are being hypocritical.
If someone walked into your store wearing a KKK uniform or a a Nazi uniform you would serve them?
bighands69
Nazi's aren't a protected group, since they killed people
Yeah. I don't agree with her bigotry. But you can't fucking sue ppl for butt hurt feelings!
They should have just made the damn cake then she wouldn't be up there crying like a baby.
Not baking cakes isn't going to stop gay marriage.
U cannot refuse a client who wants to buy a bread or cake in ur store if they did nothing wrong to anybody. So ordering a service like dentist, or a cake to be made is the same. It's same to refuse black person to buy or order something. Simple as that.
Divine punishment. Remember Christians , as St Agustín said in Citate Dei; " everything happens with the consent of god". Excellent!
They should have NOT only gotten a fine! They should have gotten their kids taken away, their bank accounts voided and their house foreclosed on!
Spoiler Alert
The cake is a lie.
I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE
+170324341a in the video game portal you get offered cake labeled "the cake is not a lie" and if u take it you die
Blasphemy.
Oh, never mind. I was just recently seeing "the cake is true".
Prayers to the family whose lives are ruined for not supporting the liberal narrative.
The details of this case made me lose any sympathy for the bakers that I might have had. In addition to refusing to sell the cake to the lesbian couple, they retaliated against them on line, and doxxed them.
If you're a baker, your job is to bake and sell cakes
The Bakery owners have the Kleins have seven children to support. I hope the gay couple Bowman - Cryer will be happy with their financial claim against the Kleins.
The gay couple said they had suffered emotional and mental damages -- even physical harm -- and set their claim at $135,000. Each of the women listed 90 separate damages they suffered when the Kleins refused to make the cake.
The damages include "acute loss of confidence," "excessive sleep," "high blood pressure," "impaired digestion," "loss of appetite," "migraine headaches." One even said she started smoking again because of "worry.”
The family will suffer the possible loss of their home and hunger. The homosexuals couldn't respect the bakers "diversity and pick another baker?!"
teton99 I guess the bakery owners should of worrired about taking care of their family and just made the damn cake..... I highly doubt they liked every customer they ever had.
teton99 They live in a country where people sue each other for farting too loudly. They were discriminating, there are laws against that, the couple had every right to sue them. It doesn't mean they would have won, they may have lost. But the thing is - these people made their decision and that had consequences. Tought, but that's how the world works. And no, religion isn't a good enough reason to not face any consequences for your actions. You can discriminate agains someone, but if you assume you can do it and nothing will happen to you, I have some news for you....
teton99 Fuck you.
Why?
Because you know its the militant homosexuals who are the real fascists.
Its one thing to be "offended," but its another to take away the livelihood from a family and children who need it, just because they don't want to sanction a lifestyle contradictory to their beliefs.
That is cost that we all pay for living in a pluralistic country. Its called give and take.
Thank you.
Many of the Homosexual militants speak of "hate." How much hate does it take to deprive a family of it's livelihood just because they disagree with your lifestyle?! That is pretty vindictive indeed.
This woman discriminated against someone who was willing to to GIVE HER MONEY to perform her service, and because of her bigoted views, she wouldn't do it. Okay. Now I'm supposed to feel sorry for her as she sits there crying and playing the poor me game? Hell no. Here is an idea, don't let your personal opinions get in the way of your business decisions. If you make such an asinine and hateful choice, you need to deal with the inevitable backlash that comes your way.
How did they go bankrupt, with all the cakes she sold to people marrying, and remarrying multiple times.
Jesus: Love Thy Neighbor!
"Christian": But, but what about...
Jesus: Nope! Love thy Neighbor! Period!!
That darn Jesus...he just doesn't seem to know his place. Keeps spouting off like this...sigh