The Great Myth of Bandsaw Drift
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2016
- In the December issue of Wood Review magazine, Peter Young gives a step by step demonstration of how to adjust the blade, instead of the fence of the bandsaw, to compensate for drift. The technique is one that Peter learned from Canadian woodworker Michael Fortune. See what else is in the December 2016 issue of Wood Review at www.woodreview.com.au/resource...
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This little band saw has turned out to be the best tool purchase I've ever made ruclips.net/user/postUgkx5ZrqmYO2uJq_nuU8TopyWxVzn8vqmPUL Once doing the set-up as per the included suggestions, this table top tool has been my go-to saw ever since (8 months as of this review). There are few things I wouldn't attempt with this saw. It takes up much less space than my table saw yet delivers twice as much punch. I've used it to create slices of wood no thicker than an 1/16th of inch by using the POWERTEC BS900RF Rip Fence. For small shop projects this tool can't be beat.
Why the snarky comments? The guy found a method that works for him and he’s sharing. On the surface his explanation makes as much sense as anything else I’ve seen. I’ll give it a try and see how it goes. If it doesn’t work out, no big loss.
The last I read about what Michael Fortune stated regarding eliminating bandsaw drift, was that every bandsaw need be adjusted only once for drift. He does so by setting the left - right movement of the table so that the blade doesn't drift in relation to its cut, but to keep the blade tracking directly in the centre of the wheels. Could you please comment on this with us?
First time i have heard anyone say this, and it makes total sense ! Thanks for the great information .
I adjusted my blade per Snodgrass, on a woodwhisperer vid, but he says put the gullet in the center of the wheel, and it fixed my bandsaw drift, that is I could not cut a uniform with before, it would drift from the start cut to much narrower immediately.......but with the gullet of the blade in the center of the wheel, it cuts perfectly.....
Thank you for the video! i need to test this. my bandsaw is just not cooperating the way want it to at the moment
I always thought of doing this as I thought it Makes more sense to Have the fence aligned with the miter track and having the blade aligned to everything else
Thank you for this video 🙏
I tried it all and went with carter set up like Alex Snodgrass said to and I can cut paper thin and straight as my fence
Super useful, exactly what I needed to hear. I'll be able to get my new bandsaw cutting straight in no time!!
Brilliant advice and video. Thanks immensely
A good many years ago I myself discovered essentially the same method of blade alignment, but independently of Michael Fortune. I adjust the machine so that the center of a blade's width always rides approximately on the center of the wheel's rim or crown. This insures that the side of a blade will always be at the same angle relative to the miter gauge slot or front edge of the table. I place a straight edge against the side of a wide blade to check for parallelism. If it isn't parallel to the slot or at ninety degrees to the front of the table, I loosen the screws holding the table to its locked trunnion segments and shift the table in the horizontal plane (without changing the tilt or moving the trunnion segments.) Then I adjust my fence parallel to the miter slot as you show in the video. The beauty of this method is that it only has to be done once.
I do all this with the widest blade the machine will take. Just so long as that width of blade is always tensioned the same amount and the tires are clean, it will always ride in the same place without having to adjust tracking. Smaller width blades will also do the same as long as the tension force on them is proportionately less. I almost never have to adjust tracking when switching blades. In any event it is always wise to check where a blade is tracking when changing to different widths or re-tensioning.
I've never seen this method to fail unless the blade is dull or the teeth set to one side are damaged in some way. It is a pleasure to be able to saw against a fence or to use a miter gauge for cut offs without having to re-adjust everything each time.
And that's why you're on here trying to find out how to true up your bandsaw!
With 1" narrow kerf resaw blades (the good ones ; 1" 2TPI -CT) the set angle is so low you can't adjust the tracking accurately enough to parallel the blade to the fence; and you have to define the drift angle precisely in order to cut perfect flitches of consistent thickness. If you're referring to general purpose utility blades with set angles from 2 to 4 degrees you have enough wiggle room to "crab" along a slightly deflected fence and you don't need to be so precise. We couldn't make heads or tails out of all the conflicting information given on the internet until we dug into the specifics of the blades we were using. Blade manufacturers don't want to talk about their "set angles" and I don't know why. That should be the first thing a customer would want to know. We tested all of them for ourselves and compiled a chart listing ALL their stats so we don't make mistakes buying blades any more. You have to get a micrometer and do that yourself, it seems, since the corporate bean counters think you'll spend more if you go through 10 inadequate blades before you find the right one. It's all about the money. In the end, most woodworkers are severely limited by the modern bandsaws' inability to track a blades under consistent tension anyway.
You are correct sir. Others here are saying in the comments "the gullet on the crown". Often when the gullet is on the crown, the teeth are often carving up the tires, especially with higher offset blades and higher TPI counts. As you failed to verbalize here, the trick, so to speak, is to balance the blade to neutral/parallel to the table slot on the tire crown to neutralize the drift in relation to the table. . Others have recommend adjusting the to table to the blade in other videos. Neutral alignment is usually achieved with the gullet closer to the crown. Then the blade guides will do their job maintaining blade alignment for external force variations. Zen achieved!
I was considering making a jig and then ran across your video. Worked well, only two adjustments and it was right on! Thanks!
Does this presume the table is also square to the blade? I have seen in some forums that table rotation can be a major culprit.
Thanks for the vid. However what is not clear is, after you loosen the guides way from the blade, you cut a parallel along the pencil line; Is that without re-setting the guides? If so and you get that great parallel cut is there then any need to use the guides at all? (at least on a wide blade like you were using).
Don't forget to check that the two wheels are coplanar when you first get your band saw. This is easy before the table is mounted and adjusted. The wheels on my bandsaw were out of plane with each other and had to be realigned. Doing this will make the "drift" problem easier to correct. I used the instructions from Michael Fortune to set my band saw up. Works perfectly with no further adjustments since. I do check for drift each time I change blades. So far, none.
Thanks for that i am new to using a bandsaw, got it a couple of days ago and the tracking is out a little, i have used that knob on the back and it did make a difference, but stopped as i was not sure i was doing the right thing, i looked up a few videos saying this was normal and to move the fence to match the drift, i will now go back and finish the job your way as it makes way more sense.I dont use the fence but cut small shapes and need it to cut straight as the shape is the same on both sides, when cutting the left hand side of the shape it wants to drift in to it which is bad, I used to use a scroll saw but the bandsaw is the tool i need for my work. it works ok at the moment but this adjustment will make it much better, thanks once again for this video very helpful.
The wave has a lot to do with feed rate. Low tension can cause problems too. I would suggest experimenting with feed rates to see what happens. Blades like to be tensioned at about 25,000 psi for woodworking. Most bandsaws will not tension the blades well. I remember using a 14" saw in a shop and I could watch the blade ripple just before the cut. When I tensioned it tighter that did not happen as much. The newer blades can be tensioned at 35,000 psi but the saw will distort under that kind of tension.
I thought the easiest way was to adjust table to fence and blade!
Perfectly logical explanation. I use this method myself
Can you help me please i am new to using a bandsaw, I am getting good tight turns to the right, but when i try to the left i get sparks and burning on the wood, what corrections do i need to make please.
blade is drifting to the right if i adjust the knob at the back it seems to start to straighten it a bit, but even making small adjustments the blade will come off i turn the knob back the other way refit the blade and it cuts to the right again not able to stop it. any help would be helpful as i am new to this
The folks at laguna would not agree. After centering the blade on the "tires" Then make a cut no more than two to three inches long and check to see if the blade is centered in the cut. If not, small adjustments to the fence should be made.
The Shopsmith bandsaw does not have that adjustment knob to allow you to make this adjustment. Any alternative way to adjust, with shims or such? My bandsaw has such bad drift it is almost unusable
also the tension of the blade is a consideration, if it is too tight or loose it will come off the wheel at a different camber to what it should
Would be interested to know what you think about the “Little Ripper” video, that basically the main thing that causes the cut not to be straight , is that when you cut close to the fence, the tension released during the cut often makes the cut open up, which pushes against the fence to make it not cut straight. That didn’t come out as clear cut as I hoped . Bloody beer strikes again. He released the blade tension and made a cut, still perfect.
Thanks mate 👍🏻
'all there is to it!' How's about letting everybody know which way to turn the knob based on how the test cut turns out? Is it really better/easier to adjust the tracking than the fence? Certainly, the blade needs to live on the tires in the correct position. And I can see the advantage to aligning everything to the slot in the table, but how often do you use the bandsaw to cross cut versus rip? Isn't it more important for the blade to be sitting on the tire in the proper position - I've always read that the bottom of the guillets should be aligned with the crown of the tires - rather than aligned to anything else in particular?
I don't mean to be disrespectful and only and interested in learning.
Center of the tooth gullet should ride in the center of the drive wheels. Properly tensioned keeping the front of the cutting area tight and with a properly sharpened blade will not drift with proper feed.
I never learned this, and have always centered the blade on the wheel, with poor results! Ah, if this is all there is to it, or even if it makes an noticeable difference... WELL. I will have wasted a lot of time and misery to date, but will also be glad that there is some hope for the future.
Wrong, if you’re using a 1” resaw blade like this guy, and you set the teeth like you’re saying, the tires will be destroyed very quickly, and it’s very likely you’ll not have enough adjustment to pull the rear guide back far enough, if the back edge of the blade isn’t already scrubbing on the body of the machine anyway
He also mentioned how the table can be twisted
If course it’s not gonna have as much drift with a 1 inch blade as you might with a half incher or a 3/8 inch blade ????
MY BANDSAW LEAVES A ROUGH FINISH ON THE WOOD AND THAT IS WITH A BRAND NEW BLADE ANY IDEAS AS TO WHAT WOULD CAUSE THIS.
Got it cutting straight now, unfortunately i think i had my tension to tight, as the rubber on the bottom wheel has come unstuck, is their a special glue to use to stick it down.
Binghams one stop shop get new tires.
Thanks for the video some blades just wonna drift especially the older ones that have been welded a few times .
I once read something about this, that pointed out that the teeth have SET, and you might cut and weld the blade so that you had one or two more "Right" teeth than "Left" teeth so to speak and the blade would cut a little more on one side! I always thought it was the Lord's will sort of, but some of these videos are giving me hope that it's something you can control!!!!
I put a square on the table and against the back of the blade. If the blade is 90 degrees to the table, then it’s in the right place on the wheel rim. I found the back-of-the-gullets-on-the-rim-crown doesn’t work for the wider re-saw blades.
Halo
My name is Abdullah from the State of Kuwait
I watched the video on your channel and the explanation is good and understandable
I have an inquiry. I will buy a band saw, which is almost the same as the specifications of our saw, but its size is between large and medium, because I have a small workshop in my house
The question regarding the saw weapon is whether the thick size is better or the thin size is better
With work, my most practical thing is to cut the wood with the text, I mean in two halves
that
The chainsaw to be purchased must be installed, the weapon is open, and its teeth are smooth
Note: I am an amateur, not a professional. Thank you
I wish you safety and security
my regards
Reason for cutting that thin thin stock soo slowly??
No mention of lower drive wheel alignment. It too can cause drift.
I disagree, you shouldn't have to twist the blade through the crown angle to match the slot. The gullets should ride on the crown (center of cutting), to avoid wander and the guides should stabilize the blade behind the gullets perfectly inline. This will work for thru cuts, but is inaccurate for stopped cuts (i.e. joinery).
Agreed!!!
not on a one inch blade! u put the teeth near the middle u run out of space lol and chew up the expensive tires
quality blades and quality bandsaw, easy to set up then 👍
No joke.. when you have a $3k 18" Jet it all makes sense
thank you
If your saw doesn't track properly, put a stone in your rotary tool and clean the back of each tooth all the way around the blade. There! good as new! most of the time it's a dull blade.
"All there's to it" with no mention of aligning the table...
I agree with your discussion of how to eliminate drift. Once I started using the technique promoted by Michael Fortune, years ago, I stopped having drift. I've always worked on an 18" or larger saw so I have no way of knowing what happens with a small saw with a narrow blade.
Does your saw not have the ability to run narrow blade?
If only my dewalt dw100 bandsaw had that adjustment option... I have lots of drift problems with that saw and no budget to get a better one.
If you're still using the plastic blade guides that came with the saw, replace them with metal or ceramic ones and adjust them as close to the blade as possible.
Thankyou.
I resaw on my Milwaukee Deep Cut Portaband... so there
+David Soudek How do you handle longer resaw cuts? I mean the Milwaukee Deep Cut only so much cut depth.
To all of you Snodgrass devotees out there, that dude is dangerous. His running wheels out of alignment alone should get him band from ever touching another tool. Peter is one of the first guys that's made any sense at all in any of the youtube videos I've seen. He's right, the only adjustment needed is the top wheel. It's exactly the same method I was shown to tune up a band saw back in 1975 on a Rockwell bandsaw. No offense my ass.
Very confused about this. I have seen videos blaming pretty much everything for blade drift. The most convincing one suggested that tracking position, blade tension and guide set-up were all pretty irrelevant, and that it was the position of the table that was important.
Most people would think of the blade as a big ring sliced through a cylinder but instead imagine the blade to be a truncated cone. If you run the blade on the front edge of the wheel the narrow face of the cone is towards you. If you were to run the blade towards the back of the wheel the cone shape would be reversed and the wide end is towards you.
When you think of it like that you can see how the wheel adjustment effects the way the blade will cut.
Drift exists therefore it is not a myth. I'm going to try your technique today and hope it works on my machine. Thanks.
Drift is real, and it’s serious. If you have a heavy, and expensive saw, and you’re using a wide blade, then it’s easier to counteract drift. But smaller saws, and narrower blades are harder to adjust, and keep adjusted.
Basically, what he’s saying should work well for his saw, but take the average, used 14” saw, and things become much more difficult.
In addition, if you do a lot of veneer cutting, you will find that the side of the blade that is cutting the veneer side, rather than the stock side, is less dull over time. That’s because the pressure on the veneer side is less than the pressure on the stock side. Because of that, the blade wanders towards the sharper side, and you get drift.
I’ve been doing this for over 50 years, and I’ve seen a lot of arguments in a number of directions about this. Drift is real, and if you are careful, and pay a lot attention to what’s happening, you can prevent it for a time, and minimize it after that. But nothing is perfect, and even massive industrial machines go off tolerances if they aren’t monitored.
Thank you that was very helpful. I'll spare you the story.
Bandsaw drift is not a myth. I had a ceramic guide come loose during a cut and it wore the set off the right side of the teeth on the blade. Subsequent cuts caused the timber to pull off the fence. I had to toss the blade.
My experience has been that new blades cut very straight. As they dull they start leaving a wavy surface on the wood. If I keeep pushing it then really bad things will start to happen. Drift,belling,smoke
On some saws you can turn the whole table left or right because of the way the trunnions mount on the saws frame. So I’d more inclined to see if that right before you freak out.
That’s a weird looking saw with the triangle frame.
Come back in 5 years of use and look us straight in the camera a tell us if you still believe in your video.
This is an oversimplification. I have an old Craftsman band saw. It has about 3 degree drift - I adjusted the tracking on the blade and it is dead center. It did not solve the problem. I also adjusted the table. It helped but the table doesn't have enough adjustment to solve the problem.
People may want to argue about whether the blade should be centred or the deepest part of the gullet should be centred, which I do, the bottom line, however, which ever way you choose, is there drift, if not the method works. Clearly this method works, no valid argument.
الرجاء ترجمه الفديو باللغه العربيه لان متابعينك من معظم بلدان العالم افاده
I agree with Peter 100%.......I've always made my blade track parallel to the mitre slot and fence parallel to the slot by adjusting the track as per the demonstration. I also found that taking the time to make the two wheels co-planer helped a lot!
SimopsAus the wheels are not meant to be coplanar.
Jim Bo not what my grizzly ultimate says
That's a BANDSAW ? When I first saw it , I thought it was a small saw mill .
Good advice, but I shit you not, for me to get rid of blade drift on my Laguna band saw I had to rotate the table. It came from the factory a whole 1/4" off.
Blade drift seems much worse with really narrow blades, like a 1/8 inch blade. Wider blades seems to track better for me.
Yeah definitely. That was the most rigid set up I've ever seen. Of coarse it didn't wander. I think he was using a metal cutting blade as well.
Using a typical one inch blade that saw would have to be capable of pulling 798 pounds of force to get a tension of 25,000 psi.
Only applies to crowned wheels.
You did not adjust the bottom wheel, ...... my record 400 was awful until I used a straightedge to align the two wheels together had to take the table off etc. The bottom wheel need only be done once. You can not always get the straightedge in where you want it so use a pair of spacers of even thickness, then adjust top wheel with the table back on then all the blade guides etc.
all great bandsaws are adjustable. The difference becomes more relevant with wider blades, say 3/4 inch and over. You can not resaw fine veneer without well aligned wheels, nor tame blade drift - not even with a sharp new band, nor well set blade guides. a little offset may be tolerable on a 1/4 inch band maybe
@PNAST rikontools.com/Manuals/Lower%20Wheel%20Adjustments.pdf The bandsaw is roughly set at the factory with one specific tension. It may need some adjustment. Also, if you change to a blade that runs at a different tension (changing blade widths, or instance), the bottom wheel may need a minor tweak (if the cut is important, enough). I use the directions linked in my post. When the blade runs in the center of both top and bottom wheel and it doesn't wobble, it's adjusted correctly.
No offense but you need to watch the video done by Alex Snodgrass about bandsaw setup. The Blade is NOT centered on the crown of the wheel, the gullet of the blade is centered on the crown. That way the blade runs dead straight and there is no such thing as blade drift. Take a look. You might learn something.
You may add that a good set of bearing guides are also necessary to minimize blade drift.
I thought it was interesting that the next video in the rotation was the Ales Snodgrass video. I agree with you. One thing I noted about this video was that peter started out with the blade centered on the wheel and then blindly made adjustments till he got a good cut with no drift. Where do you think he ended up when he was done with his trial and error method? I'd bet he was deepest part of the gullets on the crown of the wheel. What do you think?
Snodgrass ignores critical adjustment of adjusting the table/trunnions. Watch Michael Fortune.
I've tried this for 4 weeks!!!! Its not working!
Adjust the blade so it is in the centre of the wheel,......yes OK but what part of the blade?,......the front?,....the rear?,..... the middle?,.....the gusset?,.....What part of your blade should be in the middle?
thank youuu !!
Maybe there is no drift when you have a huge ass industrial bandsaw with a wide ass blade. but when you're a DIYer, we have small skinny, thin blades that in fact DO DRIFT.
Kleo 84 Yes. This doesn’t work for me no matter how much I try.
Only proves that you don't know how to set up your saw. I have a hobby size band saw and often run very skinny blades - I do not have a problem with drift. The instructions given in this video though are not the best way. As others have said, look for a video by Alex Snodgrass and you will see that it is not difficult at all to set up your saw with no drift.
Bandsaws are frustrating. I call mine the 30 degree angle cutter.
Sorry, but there is no way in heck that I'm gonna trial and error the blade tracking to eliminate drift when I can simply do a test cut on a scrap of 1/4" material, scribe a line on the table top, and then position my fence parallel to that scribed line... one to two minutes...tops! ....and..I simply have to set my miter guage at a 90 degree angle to the fence to get that one to cut 90 degree cuts!
I like it.
@Gordon Aitchison Calling someone a moron because they spelled one word wrong says more about you than them. I, for one agree with David's post, I assume you don't, if that's the case why didn't you just say so instead of insulting the poster?
A lot of saws don’t have an adjustable fence though
Ninety percent of the time if you have a problem with drift its a blunt blade. Carbon blades don’t last long, they are cheap because they are throw away. Go HHS or better still carbide. Then if you have a problem still its your poor set up. Bandsaws are fussy. They need to be adjusted properly or they just dont work very well. Never buy a sheet steel bandsaw, they resonate and vibrate to much and it sets up vibration in the teeth so they blunt quickly.
Cast iron absorbs vibration and noise so it cuts smoother. Cast iron is much stiffer so the wheels do not go out of alignment under tension. There are many factors that go in to a good bandsaw. Most Bandsaws are rubbish. One of the THE best bandsaws ever made was the 30” Wadkin BZB. Full cast iron torsion box. Super stiff. Thats what you really need.
weighs over a thousand pounds lol
So drift isn’t a myth?
All of that does nothing for the drift. The only reason for the drift is the fence. The bandsaw fence should not exist. When you resaw a board and push it against the fence, you build pressure. The blade has nowhere to go and it tries to twist and turn sideways, hence the drift. I don't understand why the bandsaws do not come with sliding tables, its the only way to use it effectively.
Common sense. I've said for years that a sharp blade, properly tensioned, running in the centre of the top wheel, does not drift. More BS written about bandsaw drift than on any other topic in woodworking!
I agree and am forced to add that there is a lot of BS about sharpening and sanding and finishing. Take your pick.
Wrong. Completely wrong.
In order to keep the blade from bending the bottom of the tooth gullet needs to be at the centre of the upper wheel.
The second big mistake is a full length fence. This does not allow the ripped timber to release tension as it is cut and forces it against the side of the blade.
What you need is a very rigid fence that ends just after the back of the blade. If you need a bit of support, screw a thin piece of ply to the face of the main fence. That way it will give if there is released tension. Very rarely will you rip timber without releasing some tension in the board.
So . . . . . . . . . . . . . its not a myth?
no no no no no!!!!!!!!!
This is not the correct way to adjust drift you are are just trying to compensate by adjusting the tracking knob witch is for tracking not drift this way is lazy and could cause the blade to pop off that's a fact jack
Absolutely no help at all.
Yes i agree, I use the technique but for someone new I'm not sure that it was helpful.
I'll never get back the four minutes I've just spent hearing some guy tell us that the upper wheel is adjustable. Who'da thunk? And BTW, people in the West understand the term spanner about as much as they call their trucks lorries.
Hopefully you have figured it out already, but most of the English speaking western world calls it a spanner, but thank you for fulfilling an American stereotype...
Mark Beiser 👍🏻
Just get the little ripper and all your problems go away.
Why oh why do people spend thousands of $ $ $ then fiddle about and upset every thing then talk about drift etc my band saw open box plug in and go that’s it .
Bad advice
Can you help me please i am new to using a bandsaw, I am getting good tight turns to the right, but when i try to the left i get sparks and burning on the wood, what corrections do i need to make please.
thank you