26650 Li-Ion battery pack build instructions and capacity test
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
- I've had a few requests to show how to build a lithium ion battery pack so I thought I'd do a video on it..... it's easy (until you watch my crappy tutorial).
As per request, here's a wiring diagram - drive.google.c...
If you want me to cover anything else in more detail, please let me know.
Link to the LiitoKala 26650 batteries:
www.aliexpress...
Tony
Bought these batteries because of you, thanks for the recommendation
I hope you have as much success as me with them. Some people don't condition them properly and they never perform as well as they should.
I ordered them 53 days ago, and they still haven't arrived.
gr8 video, super informative, will be making one with 18650 batteries for my long range fpv miniquad.
dont think 18650s can put enough amps for a quad
Joshua Huang what type of battery can you build for fpv quad for long flying time ?
Thanks for the video Tony, sent for some batteries and going to have a go at making a couple of 3s packs for my Bixler FPV plane. Full chat the motor draws about 18 Amps so should be fine. I normally fly around at 10amps.
Again thanks for the info and the link.
I've ordered 200 of them and I don't really know whether to use them on the bike, build custom packs for people or use them as a power wall for my solar project (video will be soon).
I will be using this pack in my MT when my confidence comes back after yesterday's -crash- heavy landing....... in a tree.
I am investing in making a 36V lion pack for my E-bike, a friend suggested your approach by stripping out some mains wire, I rejected this advice not just because I have seen pack builds using thin pure nickel strips spot welded to the battery contact points. I looked into this and found out that copper per unit length has a resistance of 0.05R, as opposed to pure nickel who's resistance per unit length is 0.005R, the nickel having 10x lower resistance to copper has all but made me opt for this design. I now have a spot welding pcb which cost around "£16 and a metre of pure nickel strip for around £2.50, since I am going to be using new batteries which have cost me nearly £90 I am taking no chances for a mishap. I am now looking into the issue of cell balancing when charging, all in all there is a lot more to this than just slapping a few batteries together and wiring them up.
Nice soldering job Tony! Gotta make one pack like that for my C1 Chaser... Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome mate. I made a 10Ah pack afterwards but I've still got to try it :-(
Hi did it work on your C1 Chaser wing if yes I would like build one for my C1 Chaser thanks
It must be the weekend Tony got the glue out again and he's even now smoking wires lol.
great video sir learnt a few things from that thank you.
It wouldn't be the weekend without a bit of smoke & glue mate :D
G'day mate thanks for this, very informative I have made one pack out of 18650 will now get some of these for my Skywalker.
I have watched most of your vids for a while, just love to hear you speak in your
native tongue and then you gave us the bloopers at the end I cracked up!!!!
Keep up the good work Thanks Adrian aka Ausie Raptor
I'm glad I helped at least one person. My job is done 😊
I'm going to watch this video a time or two.
The most important is to use soldering flux for stainless steel! It contains phosphoric acid which dissolves the nickel oxide layer on the terminals. I use a 7mm diameter blunt tip for maximum heat transfer speed (about 0.5sec for complete tinning with 100W soldering iron). Make sure to always clean the tip, as the flux will eat away the copper tip
Both the schematic and 26650 sourcing links you provide seem to be obsolete as of Aug2023. Would you please update? Thanks.
Also, have you performed any testing to verify the number of charge cycles these cells can withstand? If so, is the mfg spec in agreement with your findings?
casting. Would you use 26650 when they contain a lower rated 18650 inside the 26650 case?
Very informative, in simple English. Thanks
I was worried that it'd confuse people even more!
Legend mate thanks for that will be building one in the n3xt couple days :)
I've just finnished building the pack! Can I discharge at 20 amps on my quadcopter?
Think This is better for a drone than 18650? what do you think? I see 6X3.7=22.2v. what would the wgt be?
Could you say if its possible to safely consume 15A per battery ? I need of get 60A on a 4P pack...
hello dude i absolutely love your videos they are easily the best on ebikes i have seen.
do you use these liito kala cells on your 50mph ebike?
Yes mate and they're still going strong after 2 years and 2000 miles 😁
Hi, do you think 4 cells can jump start a 1000cc bike that needs about 180 CCA? I see people using Lifepo4, 4 cells 6.5ah cca 95 for small bike and 8 cells for big bike Since the peak ampere for this 26650 is much higher, I figure 4 cells should be able to produce the similar power or higher than the Lifepo4, what is your opinion?
In theory, a 4P pack should be enough because it's only used for 2-3 seconds but it all depends on how well you build the pack. I'd be more conservative and say a minimum of 6P to ease the strain.
What soldering iron do you use? My 140 watt weller soldering gun doesn't get hot enough for the negative terminal. I have to use my soldering gun and soldering iron for it to join properly
I use a Metcal. They're expensive but worth every penny. They work on ultrasound and they automatically adjust the power level.
Lito kala has amazing prices and free shipping, does any know a better or cheaper way to get batteries?
Cause I think this is it.
used cells
Nice video Tony. Keep up he good work.
Cheers Rick, I'll try to :-)
Can u power the spot welder with the pack u build or has to be 2s4p?
Tony,you've sold me on those cells! I've ordered 12 from Ali to make a 6S2P battery pack.I get everything you do in the video,but I'm trying to make the pack fit inside a large water bottle. This means I have to stack 4 columns of 3 cells joined in series. Can you tell me the best way of connecting the cells end to end ? I'm also not sure how to wire the 6S lead for balance charging?
Loving the videos and I've subscribed to your Patreon site. Keep it coming!
hi......i'm now getting into this stuff.....but i noticed your lovely table mat....what model and where can i get it ? thanks.....
eBay probably has them, just search green electrician desk mat or something like that
enjoy these videos, very informative, entertaining and inspiring.
hypothetical question, could these 26650 cells be built into an e-bike battery pack to power a 3kw hub conversion with appropriate charger & controller or should we stick to 18650s?.
There's no need to be hypothetical - I've bought enough to make a pack for 20kw which I'll be doing over the winter months. My tests prove that they're more reliable than the 18650's and they have more capacity to weight ratio.
@@Vortecks Similarly with 21700 cells. Superior capacity for extremely little increase in size.
For just 3mm increase in diameter (1.5mm radius), and 5mm increase in length, a quality 21700 can safely and reliably deliver *_around_* 40% more Ah capacity than an quality 18650 cell.
Hey, great concept..do you charge the battery pack the same way you would a Lipo pack?
Yes, exactly the same :-)
are you using a lipo charging setting or a lion setting?
if everything you have runs on 12v then you can charge the batteries to 12.6v as thats the standard charge of a fully charged lead acid battery (which is where i assume the 12v number comes from)
I don't think I explained correctly........Some things on my planes need a minimum of 12v
12,8v is a full normal lead acid battery, 13,2v for a AGM. You measure the voltage after 2 hours or more.
Charging voltage is normaly at 13,8v but it goes up to 14,4 for AGM and some cars alternators run at that voltage.
Tony, can you make a wiring diagram of this thing so that we are sure where all of the leads (especially mains) are connected. Thank you for a great and informative video.
Just for you :-) drive.google.com/file/d/1IWkaYLoS3ygPAsAEiGQ5UHcsklUeiXqy/view?usp=sharing
So how many of these for e bike to run on and best portable charger to opt for as i intend to rig charge port on my ebike project
A single cell of the battery is 3.7v nominal. Depends on what voltage needed for ur ebike. Also need to mind about the capacity. This battery usually rated ade 5000mah which i dont think it is enough for ebike.
For charger... Hota d6+ is a good value for money acdc charger. If u got a psu ready. Toolkitrc m8 is a great cheap powerful dc charger rated at 300w and can charge up to 8s
If you have a e-bike battery 52V 17.5 and the same type 60V 17.5 battery both charged to 58..8V for a bbshd bike, will both batteries provide the same range?
You want to charge a 52v battery to 58.8v? I'd strongly advise against it as it could catch fire or explode.
If you did a 4s2p would that double the mah capacity and amp draw?
100% correct! 😁
where did you get those batteries?
where do you buy the li ion cells got some milwaukee batteries i need to recell
Aliexpress - liitokalahongkong.aliexpress.com/store/group/26650-battery/217753_512458690.html
How would you come around charging a 4S2P battery which is inside the box and you would not want to remove it from the box ??? Any ideas ???
That's easy - All you need is to fit a cheap BMS (Battery Management System) to the battery pack and then, use a 14.8v charger. I might do another video about this in the near future.
Vortecks that would be greatly appreciated
I'm so glad I've found this video series of yours Tony. Thank you so much for sharing your build in such detail. Your motivating me to think about converting my push bike now!
I have a few questions if you have time please.
So the purpose of the capacity test is to fully charge the battery pack and then simulate usage by draining them down to in this case 3V per battery, to make sure that all batteries are drained equally and are stable etc?
When you say the batteries will go down to 2.5V safely, what you mean is the total amount of power taken from this battery pack is around 6000mah at 2.5v - so does draining the battery to low make it unstable and dangerous? Or is it more a question of seeing exactly how much power you can load and then use etc.
Finally, would it be more economical to use these batteries in a ebike build rather than the 18650?s
Cheers!
1 - The purpose of the test is to see how much (in milliampere hours) I can actually get out of the pack.
2 - Correct but it will (over time) damage the batteries if you constantly run them down to 2.5v. When I fly my planes, I like to know exactly how much I can push the batteries before they die altogether.
3 - I'm already ahead of you. I've been ordering 20 at a time (the max the supplier will allow) but it's going to take a few months to get the 100 batteries I need.
Thanks so much for the reply mate. Much appreciated. I'm learning a lot from you :-)
100 batteries. Wow. Your not going to make one huge battery pack with 100 in total are you?
I was thinking about getting this kit below from ebay as people have commented you can run it using a 48v 20ah battery pack.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26-1000W-Electric-Bicycle-Rear-Wheel-Motor-Conversion-Kit-LCD-Meter-E-Bike-Hub/122638459582?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
The photo on the back on the DC motor controller says 26+1A
However 12 X 26650 cells = 44.4v so I am not sure how I can increase the Amps without having to much voltage, I.E am I not limited to 12 batteries only - or am I missing something?
I think you can read I am not 100% clued up with this stuff! But it's fun to learn as I love riding me bike. Having some power for the hills would be very nice. I think I would ride it every day!
I'll be watching your vids a lot Tony. Thanks so much. All the best.
Yup..... 20 in series and 5 in parallel. That'll give me 100a constant and 250a burst with a total of 20ah but it'll weigh around 8kg.
That controller is 26a +/- 1a (25a to 27a)
12 x 26650 fully charged (4.2v) = 50.6v
You can have as many batteries as you want, as long as it's a multiple of 12. For every 12 batteries in parallel, you increase the capacity by 5ah. Does that clear things up? :-)
Wow. I can't wait to see you build that. With those batteries it should be amazing! I've seen people print out some cool spaced out battery holders for large clusters of cells, but I wonder if some heat sinks might be wise with that kind of a stack?
I wonder if you could design and print a case that has air vents like a radiator on a car. You could suck air in and through the battery pack aerodynamically as you speed along. Could be a nice touch to the design?
Thank you very much for replying and helping me with the info. I appreciate it. Making 12 of those new batteries into a pack would be a good starting point I think :-)
If I convert my bike I'll show you a photo once it's done.
The other thing I've seen recently is 2 wheel drive ebikes front and back. That would be the ultimate as I guess you would never tip the front of your bike. But expensive I know!!
Take care and be safe on the road. Cheers.
I went out a couple of hours ago to test all the mods I've done (new BMS, new 19" motorbike wheels, proper motorbike tyres and other things) and it goes like stink. I think I'll be sticking with 18s @ 150a because it already does over 60 which means I only need 90 batteries instead of 100 :-)
When I have all the batteries, I'll have to design a battery holder but it doesn't need to be cooled really. Having a potential 250a to play with, I doubt it'll even get warm. I think it's going to be a winter project now because I'm not taking this thing apart in the spring/summer.... I've waited far too long for the weather to break!
Please don't think of doing a 2wd version - front forks are designed to stop a bike, not pull it along which is why you never see a 2wd motorbike. You stand a good chance of ripping the front off........not something you want to happen :-(
Great tutorial! Did you make the discharger?
Yeah. I have some 10Ω 100w panel mount resistors wired in parallel. I have 5 of them but I should have made a bank of 10. There's various videos showing how to do it with the iCharger ruclips.net/video/yjLhJWbpvUg/видео.html
Hey Tony, how did it fair in the mini Talon???
No idea yet. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get out flying for a long time now. Hopefully, I'll be able to test it in the next couple of weeks.
Vortecks yeah I know the feeling well... Sure you will get time at some point just like I'm sure I'll get round to building my bloody mini talon :)
I didnt know that liions came in packages larger than 18650s. Are 26650s the biggest? Nice videos mate, they are appreciated. Perhaps you could do a video on the icharge charger?
You can get bigger cells but they're not really practical. 26650 is really the biggest that cam be made into custom packs.
There's loads of videos on the iCharger - they've been out for quite a while now but I'll do a video in my own flavour soon :-)
They are really 5 Amp battery?
Can this pack be use on aerial video multi rotor platform?
Some people have used 18650 batteries for multi-rotors so yeah, there's no reason why not!
I fly a 550 hex, and recently built a 4s 2p pack out of 18650 cells..they couldn’t handle the current draw and lasted less than 30 air time..was told the 18650 cells were rated as 2c and may burn up if I try to push them..so I ordered some of these cells, it’ll be interesting to see what I get from them...#fingerscrossed!!
with li-ion 4s can i use this pack in a 70mm edf with a 70A ESC ?
Not at 70A. These cells will handle 50A burst for 5 seconds but they won't supply the full 70A. You'd need a parallel set (4s2p) to to get that power.
@@Vortecks thank you for your answer, and what about a 4s2p pack with batteries 18650 type ? could it work with the 70 A ESC ? thx.
@@bilchiri bilchiri You'd need something like the Molicel P28A if you wanted a 4s2p. This will give you 70A burst (only for 2-3 seconds) but a constant 40A. The one downside of li-ion is the voltage sag but the positive side is that they have a higher voltage range - More can be used compared to a lipo.
Nice video.
Would you be up for building a 14.8V, 10,000mAh pack for me 4S2P and provide a charger for it as well ?
I just want to give it to professional to do it... unless you can recommend someone.
I'm in 2 minds on whether to start building them for people. I do have one already built but they're not going to be cheap!
Vortecks what would be the best way to contact you ?? And what price per pack ?
can you tell us all the parts name. and type and were to bay it
So the + and - battery leads connect to the first battery in line?
No, they connect to the furthest points but on the same side (with a 4s pack). If you did a pack with an odd number of cells, it would be the opposite corners.
I soldered my 18650s the same way using copper wire, its easy with a big iron....Glad you weighed it against a standard 5000mah Lipo pack Tony....So, potentially, its say a 6000mah pack which weighs less...Nice job and the cell prices are reasonable and they won't bloat and puff up over time....:)
What does your MT draw flat out, and will these cells take a burst..?
The 5000mah pack will handle 50a burst for 10 seconds before the voltage drops below 3.5v.
I've just built a 10,000mah pack for the MT and it handles 10a constant without breaking a sweat. My MT draws 28a flat-out.
I did a run at 30a and the pack is actually 10,621mah down to 3v per cell and it hits 31c. I'm so impressed, I've just ordered 20 more :-)
Be interesting to see you do some endurance flights with the MT come Summer....:)
www.patreon.com/vortecks
Have a look what I just posted m8 (it should be visible for non-Patrons).
Any chance hot glue/electrical tape may come undone at higher discharge rate?
Yes it will, that's why I changed it to PVC heat shrink.
Merci, monsier.
do you take orders? :D
Where did you get 5000 mAh 26650 batteries? Link please. I need something similar for 20 amps continuous (vaping).
Description updated for you :-)
Thanks.
Hi mate could I use a xt90 connecta on a 36v 11ah ebike battery pack 18650 batteries
Yeah of course you can as long as you're not drawing more than 90 amps. How many watts is your controller or motor?
Vortecks this is only a baby one laugh out loud 500w motor the guy that built the battery pack put the square connector on it with a plus and a minus but now I've got a new bike and built a new box and want to hide all the wires if you know what I mean
36v 500w is 14a max. You can easily put an XT90 on there. You could even get away with an XT60 :-)
Thanks for the info mate God knows why I put that bloody big connector on it looks like something that you use on a forklift truck lol so even if I up my grade my controller to 800w it will still be ok
Yes mate, you're good for up to 3000w at 36v with an XT90
There is no internal resistance change to a cell thats been soldered? I find that hard to believe. I would bet $20 that a cell thats been soldered run at a high current against an unmolested cell will end up at a higher temp at the end of the discharge, by at least 3-4 Celsius likely 5-10 higher.
I have done tests to see if this is the case - If you do it correctly and keep the heat on there for the minimum amount of time, it causes no damage. It's only the negative side that causes potential damage as the positive has the button to dissipate the heat.
You're correct about the heat after discharge, though. Solder insulates the areas that dissipates heat and the main areas for heat generation are on the ends.
@@Vortecks Micah Toll tested soldering cells with a thermal camera. His results were undeniable. Any cell exposed to that level of heat even though he only did 3 second solder points, will be damaged.
Use FLUX to solder on batteries 🔋
I thought 2.7 Vdc was considered an Empty batt for the 4.2Vdc 18650 /26650s
2.7v is indeed an empty battery,Vortecks uses the lifepo4 2.5v-3.6v voltage range instead of the lithium-ion 2.7v-4.2v
can you make tutroil on how to build ebike battery 100v
When they all arrive from China, I'll be building a big pack for my bike. It will take some time for them to arrive though.
Vortecks cant wait for that will be follwing you
Hmm. You saved 47 grams ( 458 gram lipo vs 411 grams for 26650 for a 5000 mah 4S) which is approx 10%. To me it is is interesting but not compelling. I am sure in a few years time it will be, but not yet.
Isn't 1 cell contains 5000mAh ? so having 4S pack equals 20000mAh ?
No, they're in series so you retain the same capacity but the voltage increases accordingly. If the cells were in parallel, they capacity increases but the voltage stays the same.
@@Vortecks I want to design one for a 7" long range cruise quadcopter. I want to choose between 21700, 26550 or 18650. I think the 21700 is the best one in terms of weight and power. It's' heavier than 18650 by 20 grams. So let me take out the 26550 of the comparison. Would 21700 be suitable for 6s2p ? but I'm afraid the quadcopter would struggle to lift the weight.
U should build a rc race car
I've been toying with the idea for a while now. The trouble is, I'm Tony....... I can't do things by half measures :-)
It could be a good project your ebike was fast
I don't think it'd end up as an RC car..... I'd be sitting in it :D
mine are 3700-3800 mAh
Are they the same ones as I've got?
same