Never seen so much critisism in 1 video. It might not be the PERFECT roll, but I bet if I saw any of the commenters' rolls i could critique them. Everyones roll might not be the same, but if it works and stops you from getting into a sticky situation, it's good. Having a roll is better than having no roll. I paddle grade 4/5, and recently had to roll in grade 4. My roll isnt bomber or perfect, but id be lost without it. I am current coaching rolling where I work and getting the whole staff team to roll and gain an interest in kayaking and self rescues. Theres always chance for practice and improvement regardless of what you paddle. He isnt saying "This is the ONLY way to roll". Hes just showing how he rolls and trying to help others to learn. You can still disagree and change the way you roll to suit your needs without being a dick about it on RUclips comments... Thanks for the video 👍
"Having a roll is better than having no roll" ! Any roll where you are not swimming at the end (and still have your paddle) is a SUCCESS, even if it was an smooth T-rescue, or used one of many cheats (bread & butter stroke being my go to).
It's a good, concise video; thanks, the sweep is a good roll for those that are less agile. I am just starting to get the roll but it still has a long way to go, mind, although, I have managed two combat rolls at LV. I have watched many, many videos, and there is one important factor that you have missed that most, if not all, who are learning the roll do, and that is bringing the head up first. The eyes should follow the blade from start to finish with the head ending up stuck to the shoulder until upright. One other tip i can add and that is to stamp the opposite foot at the same time as the hip "flick".
Just seen this video and think it is perfect for getting you started on your kayak rolling journey. And as Dave said, practice every time you use your kayak, and you will soon find a way to roll that suits you. Cheers Dave.
I try to stay open minded about paddling styles and avoid dogma. However, I just see too many issue with this. I think the biggest of which is that it is TEN STEPS! When I am teaching students to roll, I teach the 4 simple phases, setup, sweep, hip snap, and recovery. Then, when I take them through drills, I make tweaks where necessary. I would never try to teach 10 steps. Students have a hard enough time with 4. In a combat roll scenario, everything happens quickly and often times, the limbic system in our brains takes over and the logic center goes quiet. Because of this, I focus more on working on comfort underwater and teaching muscle memory. I also teach students to loosen the grip on their paddles. A tight grip, inhibits paddle dexterity. If you are having trouble getting the paddle to the surface, there are better techniques to correct that, such as sculling the paddle. I too, take issue with encouraging people to change the position of their hands on the paddle shaft. Mainly because when you roll up in combat, you are preventing yourself from being able to follow it up with a proper stroke. Sorry dude, I think the only part of this I agree with, is step 10. Practice. As long as you are not practicing "Dave's Roll."
Many thanks for your comment - we do appreciate the time you took in your reply. You are correct to outline that there are many different approaches to learning to roll. Some will work better than others and it's down to the individual and/or teacher to select which works best for them. I have merely outlined one that has worked for us - equally, you have outlined one that has worked for you. The 10 steps covers the key aspects of the roll and means that each movement is covered to make it easier to understand the roll as a whole. In our experience, distilling it down leaves gaps - and potential misunderstanding for the pupil. Practice is important regardless of the chosen roll and steps. Good luck and stay safe.
That's a bit harsh there lads, your point about the number of steps to remember not withstanding, the 4 steps are included in Dave's 10, he just moves you through them in more detail. Like if you get a diagramatic instruction manual with something that needs putting together; with 10 little illustrations, well that's going to be more helpful than 4. Dave could have just as easily named and numbered only four of the steps and just talked through the other steps. It's a question of semantics but his information is correct, clear, well broken down and illustrated. As a beginning Yakist myself, I'm talking on all the information available on the subject and found this helpful. If anything, it could have done with a few more steps to show the movement underwater. I'll be along to check out ye're channel presently. So happy to have joined the Yakcult.
Pretty rough comment dude. We’re all in this sport together. I learned in four steps (EJs vids) and still thought this was all good and fun. Stay safe and happy paddling!
I get my comment may come off a bit abrasive and I would typically try to avoid being overly prescriptive. However I saw too many issue with this, some of which are safety issues. Just don't believe some random dude on the internet, including me. Seek out a certified instructor in your area who can teach safe and proper technique. I am fairly confident that most of those instructors will have a similar sentiment as to the problematic nature of this technique.
Common 'fault' I've seen for new paddlers learning to roll is the 'cocked' wrist at set-up, which is (they have) over forced. When they invert and move focus to the sweep, the wrist relaxes and the paddle angle, especially if held by the front hand (rather than Dave's 'trick' of using the rear hand against the throat of the rear paddle), is now set up for a dive rather than a supporting stroke. pool training suggestion: Using a body board as a paddle float is a great help for separating the setup practice, from the sweep/finish practice. Place the paddle on the board and then reverse the recovery to invert into the water. It quickly becomes obvious that the initial sweep out is important to get leverage for the rotation aspect of the roll, and also allows/ensures that beginners 'get up' for the last bit where head position would be key.
Yes, I've seen the common fault too. The roll is so ingrained in my muscle memory, I move my back hand automatically to 'feel' for the rear blade. I can't remember it ever slicing using this method. Love the pool training suggestion. Thanks for your comment.
If you are lurking for rolls, then it is worth trying to compare and contrast the differences between the different 'how to roll' guides and get a feeling for which aspect go together and which ones form distinct variants. Some things are just 'sensible cheats', and others will be fighting failures in other parts of the offered techniques. A big distinction between some rolls is whether the body is 'laid back' or 'folded forward' when coming out of the water. There is no in-between. The angles on the spine prevent body & shoulder rotation if your posture is just 'middling'. If you are sitting up ready to paddle when its all over, rather than swimming then ✅☑✅☑!
I was able to roll after one session of instruction at the Nantahala training center. It pissed off the instructor when I nailed an opposite side roll on the first attempt. My roll was bomb proof after the week long class, as I sucked at the rest of the skills and found myself upside down so often that all I really did going down River was flip and roll..... Over and over and over again the entire length of the river!!! Believe me, is much more enjoyable if you can do the other stuff well enough you don't have to constantly roll!!!
Hello Bryan. Many thanks for taking the time to comment. I do appreciate it. I 'm really pleased you nailed your roll - it is so important and makes kayaking much more enjoyable especially on white water. I do agree that you should back up your roll with other skills like kayak edging, bracing, sweep strokes and bow rudders to try and minimise the number of rolls. These skills take time though and your bombproof roll will save your swims in the meantime. Have fun Bryan.
Absolutely. And it's worse if the water is cold. Grabbing a breath does become natural after a few practices. Thank you for your comment. Happy paddling.
As others have pointed out in step 8 you are high bracing. In the low brace the back face of the paddle with knuckles pointing down is used. In your demonstration you are using the power face with knuckles pointing up. Classic high brace, even if you kept the other hand lower.
Thanks for your comment and glad you liked the video. You are correct - I didn't drop my arms as much as I should to create a low brace. Either way, the point is to have a brace (high or low) ready as you finish the roll - just in case you start to drop back in. Keep safe.
Thank you for the positive comment. Really appreciated. It's a Dagger GT Max for Dave and Ed has a GT 7.8. Both awesome kayaks and surf really well ->>> ruclips.net/video/8uOw0-Is8R0/видео.htmlsi=1gS4DGgyCbNNeoT6
@@EdDaveKayaking I really enjoyed the instructions. Very clear. I don’t have any rolling schools here so will be trying to learn this myself by looking at RUclips videos 😅 most instruction videos just show people rolling without commentary so this has been great!
@@Fishaholicboy Thanks for the feedback. I see you use a Greenland paddle for some of your trips. The basic concepts of the roll will still apply, but you will need to keep leaning back (body close to the kayak) and push the paddle in a wide arc to maximise leverage. There are YT videos specifically about using a Greenland paddle to roll - these could help you. Good luck and do keep in touch.
Well I think the guy is trying to help, the hand positions for first learning look fine, but hello I’ve only been paddling since 1964 so what do I know. The only thing I would say is you have to practice and it eventually becomes second nature no looking at your hand positions. Yes it does become automatic a bit like becoming one with your boat.
Thanks for your comment. Your experience is invaluable! As you say, practice is the key - either in a swimming pool, river or lake (all done safely of course). Hope you enjoy your paddling. Have fun.
What's with shifting your hands? You're settling yourself up for a whole heap of problems when used in anger. I'd also take issue with the "tight" grip on the paddle. And as for the finishing position with the shoulder at full extension...
Many thanks for your comment. I do appreciate it. This is my version of the roll based on my experiences and it has worked very well for me over the years - with success and no injuries. The aim of the video is to provide an insight into how it works and each aspect is fully explained. You only need to slide your hand *along* the paddle as explained at 1:08, you are not "shifting your hands". The "tight" grip is to ensure that the paddle is pushed underwater to arrive on the other side of the kayak as at 1:35. A common mistake is be too loose and allow the water to resist the paddle blade which means it won't be in the correct place. The finishing position of the arm is high and you are correct, a proper warm up and carefully pulling on the paddle will avoid injury. Stay safe.
@@EdDaveKayaking A tight grip increases the likely-hood of the paddler pulling down toward riverbed/using paddle as a lever. Have you seen The Kayak Roll? Developed by a group of professionals. ruclips.net/video/K_nvVwnrIhg/видео.html
Hip "flick": As an older person, I hate the term 'flick'. It suggest a fast, very dynamic and somewhat aggressive motion, that's not always possible with that flick visualisation. I prefer the buttock swap view, especially if practised statically upright. In practice (I visualise) it's the rotation of the boat such that it is tucked underneath the upper body by bringing the 'far away' thigh across and under one's belly button (no heads are raised during this manoeuvre;-)
I would suggest most beginners should learn how to "hand roll" so they realise the importance of the hip-flick and synchronisation with the kayak position during it's roll. Then, introduce the paddle. There will be times you will need to roll and don't have a paddle.
Many thanks for the comment. Hand rolling is certainly a great way of testing out your hip flick - especially if you have access to a swimming pool. Have fun and stay safe.
Sorry for my early comment, it was a bit overdramatic and unhelpful. This isn't how I or any kayak instructors I know would teach the roll, but it wont kill anyone to try some different approaches as they develop
Thank you. I decided to break down the roll in to all the steps so it's clear what I do. In teaching this, I would combine multiple steps to make it easier for the paddler to learn and do. Happy paddling.
This is so interesting! I haven't heard the term "Screw Roll" since I was a kid in the 1980's. My dad taught me an extended paddle roll which was similar to what you are teaching here except one would grab the back blade of the paddle for even more leverage. The roll you're teaching and the extended paddle roll might not work for most people here in the states as 90 degree paddles are out of fashion. Nowadays we teach sweep or C to C and most people use a combination of the two.
Many thanks for your comment. It's always interesting to hear how others are doing it and to bring these ideas and techniques to our paddling. I was a kid in 80's hence the term 'Screw Roll' - who knew I was that old! Have a great day and happy kayaking.
I've tried that roll using 45° and 30° asymetric blades, you can get the climbing blade angle by gripping the top corner of the blade and holding the blade almost flat to your forearm
leverage has nothing to do with with, if you are relying on levering up on your paddle, you will fail most times, the paddle is to position your body...then hip flick, head down
Thanks for the question. It's useful to have feathered blades with an offset up to 90 degrees. The offset helps you to paddle in strong headwinds, give an improvement in speed and it's easier on your wrist rotation. Here's some more information on our website: www.kayaking-canoeing-tips.com/choosing-a-kayak-paddle.html. Have fun and stay safe.
Many thanks for your comment. I do move my hands to enable me to correctly align the paddle blade - as mentioned in the video. Yes, the brace at the end is more high than low - thanks for pointing it out. Have fun and stay safe.
I wasn't familiar with the roll you mentioned so did look it up. You are right, it's very similar. I have broken the roll into more steps to highlight what I think are the key parts of my roll. Of course, you could combine some of the steps if you wanted. Thanks for your comment.
This is not how to roll. Sometimes a swim is better than a terribly done roll or brace. The techniques shown here are liable to get you injured if you try to use them on anything except the most mellow and forgiving of rivers. I can see you are catching some well deserved crits in the comments, so let me just say I hope you keep learning and pursue a deeper knowledge before trying to upload further tutorials. RUclips may thrive on hyperbole and click-baiting, but kayaking is a potentially dangerous activity. From when I started paddling back in 97 till now, several paddlers I have known have died. In all but one of these instances it was due to them overestimating their ability on a known quantity of water. Stay safe, stay real, have fun.
Many thanks for taking the time to comment. The idea of this video is to show people the basic steps involved in a roll. It's a roll I have used and taught for many years and it has worked for me - on flat and white water. Although you criticise it, you don't provide specifics so I am unable to comment on this. I agree that it could be refined as with most techniques in kayaking - there is always room for improvement. For viewers, they must take away what works for them and merge this into their own experience and skill levels to help them operate at their safe level. I am sorry to hear of losses in our sport. Stay safe Sir ... see you on the river.
@@EdDaveKayaking For one, you body position is awful at the end of the roll, you're leaning back to lower the centre of gravity to assist the roll rather than rotating your upper body fully. You'll get away with it up to grade 3 but in grade three you'd be very unstable and likely go back under. 2, what on earth is the offset hand position all about, not necessary. 3, on a sweep roll you should not be relying on paddle pressure. Rotation causing your knee to lift is what rolls the kayak in a sweep roll, NOT paddle pressure. Poor rolling technique, video should be removed for safety reasons.
I'm afraid "Never Swim Again" is just not a realistic goal. As a recent beginner that had a very confident flatwater roll on both sides, the first time I hit a big hole and turned upside down into violent whitewater it all went straight out the window. Also, though I'm not qualified to say it, I've heard it said that even the best will swim at some point.
It's just a video and makes for a title that encourages you to want to watch so you don't have to come out of your kayak as much.. I'm pretty sure he knows it's not 'The goal' to never swim, because even sometimes the uncertainty of what's coming could make you want to pop a deck instead of attempting a roll, but is just an exaggerated version of explaining that if you have a good roll you swim less, right?
Thanks for your comments. The goal is to never swim again and aiming for this means much more chance of success. The roll shown is one of many variants - it works for me and therefore others might be able to take something from it to help them. You are correct, there is always the chance of a swim. Safe paddling.
For one, you body position is awful at the end of the roll, you're leaning back to lower the centre of gravity to assist the roll rather than rotating your upper body fully. You'll get away with it up to grade 3 but in grade three you'd be very unstable and likely go back under. 2, what on earth is the offset hand position all about, not necessary. 3, on a sweep roll you should not be relying on paddle pressure. Rotation causing your knee to lift is what rolls the kayak in a sweep roll, NOT paddle pressure. Poor rolling technique, video should be removed for safety reasons.
Many thanks for your comment. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I value this. This type of roll has worked for me many times on all kinds of water including in stoppers, on grade 4 water and in significant surf on the sea. If you watch the video, I do explain about the offset hand position and how the sweep is helping to rotate the kayak. Have fun and stay safe.
You make a good point. When practising rolling, you must make a judgement as to how dangerous it is and whether you are capable and equipped to continue. In the middle of winter, for example, without the correct clothing, it would be cold, wet and dangerous. Thank you for your comment.
"Dave's kayak roll" my ass. This is just a standard sweep roll described in far too many steps. The two biggest fallacies with your instruction is 1: assuming you can set up before rolling, which almost never happens in actual paddling and 2: sperating the hip flick from the sweep. These are simultaneously movements.
Many thanks for your comment. You are right, the essence of the roll is indeed a sweep roll. I have added in a few tweaks and labelled it my roll (forgive my indulgence). Setting up before rolling is an important part of the practice for this roll, but, as you say, this is not always possible on white water. Splitting the roll into individual steps allows a full explanation of how each step works and fits into the whole roll. You and I agree, all parts are needed to produce a successful roll. Stay safe.
@@EdDaveKayaking There is literally no difference between this and a sweep roll.... So your indulgence is rather egotistical at best. You've not added any substantive improvement to what people have done for years, which is fine, just don't presume it's "yours"
Never seen so much critisism in 1 video. It might not be the PERFECT roll, but I bet if I saw any of the commenters' rolls i could critique them. Everyones roll might not be the same, but if it works and stops you from getting into a sticky situation, it's good. Having a roll is better than having no roll.
I paddle grade 4/5, and recently had to roll in grade 4. My roll isnt bomber or perfect, but id be lost without it. I am current coaching rolling where I work and getting the whole staff team to roll and gain an interest in kayaking and self rescues. Theres always chance for practice and improvement regardless of what you paddle. He isnt saying "This is the ONLY way to roll". Hes just showing how he rolls and trying to help others to learn. You can still disagree and change the way you roll to suit your needs without being a dick about it on RUclips comments...
Thanks for the video 👍
Many thanks for the comment and support. Much appreciated.
"Having a roll is better than having no roll" !
Any roll where you are not swimming at the end (and still have your paddle) is a SUCCESS, even if it was an smooth T-rescue, or used one of many cheats (bread & butter stroke being my go to).
It's a good, concise video; thanks, the sweep is a good roll for those that are less agile. I am just starting to get the roll but it still has a long way to go, mind, although, I have managed two combat rolls at LV. I have watched many, many videos, and there is one important factor that you have missed that most, if not all, who are learning the roll do, and that is bringing the head up first. The eyes should follow the blade from start to finish with the head ending up stuck to the shoulder until upright. One other tip i can add and that is to stamp the opposite foot at the same time as the hip "flick".
Thanks for your comment.
Just seen this video and think it is perfect for getting you started on your kayak rolling journey. And as Dave said, practice every time you use your kayak, and you will soon find a way to roll that suits you.
Cheers Dave.
Thank you for your positive comment. Practice makes perfect! Happy paddling.
I try to stay open minded about paddling styles and avoid dogma. However, I just see too many issue with this. I think the biggest of which is that it is TEN STEPS! When I am teaching students to roll, I teach the 4 simple phases, setup, sweep, hip snap, and recovery. Then, when I take them through drills, I make tweaks where necessary. I would never try to teach 10 steps. Students have a hard enough time with 4. In a combat roll scenario, everything happens quickly and often times, the limbic system in our brains takes over and the logic center goes quiet. Because of this, I focus more on working on comfort underwater and teaching muscle memory. I also teach students to loosen the grip on their paddles. A tight grip, inhibits paddle dexterity. If you are having trouble getting the paddle to the surface, there are better techniques to correct that, such as sculling the paddle. I too, take issue with encouraging people to change the position of their hands on the paddle shaft. Mainly because when you roll up in combat, you are preventing yourself from being able to follow it up with a proper stroke. Sorry dude, I think the only part of this I agree with, is step 10. Practice. As long as you are not practicing "Dave's Roll."
Many thanks for your comment - we do appreciate the time you took in your reply. You are correct to outline that there are many different approaches to learning to roll. Some will work better than others and it's down to the individual and/or teacher to select which works best for them. I have merely outlined one that has worked for us - equally, you have outlined one that has worked for you. The 10 steps covers the key aspects of the roll and means that each movement is covered to make it easier to understand the roll as a whole. In our experience, distilling it down leaves gaps - and potential misunderstanding for the pupil. Practice is important regardless of the chosen roll and steps. Good luck and stay safe.
I'm impressed that he appears to be rolling in fresh water and isn't using nose clips.
That's a bit harsh there lads, your point about the number of steps to remember not withstanding, the 4 steps are included in Dave's 10, he just moves you through them in more detail.
Like if you get a diagramatic instruction manual with something that needs putting together; with 10 little illustrations, well that's going to be more helpful than 4. Dave could have just as easily named and numbered only four of the steps and just talked through the other steps. It's a question of semantics but his information is correct, clear, well broken down and illustrated. As a beginning Yakist myself, I'm talking on all the information available on the subject and found this helpful.
If anything, it could have done with a few more steps to show the movement underwater. I'll be along to check out ye're channel presently. So happy to have joined the Yakcult.
Pretty rough comment dude. We’re all in this sport together. I learned in four steps (EJs vids) and still thought this was all good and fun.
Stay safe and happy paddling!
I get my comment may come off a bit abrasive and I would typically try to avoid being overly prescriptive. However I saw too many issue with this, some of which are safety issues. Just don't believe some random dude on the internet, including me. Seek out a certified instructor in your area who can teach safe and proper technique. I am fairly confident that most of those instructors will have a similar sentiment as to the problematic nature of this technique.
Just learned how to roll and I find this to be a more detailed take on it which is very helpful for me. Thanks for posting and stay safe
Hello Travis. Thanks for your positive comment and glad the video helped you. Take care.
Herzlichen DANK für die gute Erklärung.
Gern geschehen. Danke für deinen Kommentar.
Common 'fault' I've seen for new paddlers learning to roll is the 'cocked' wrist at set-up, which is (they have) over forced. When they invert and move focus to the sweep, the wrist relaxes and the paddle angle, especially if held by the front hand (rather than Dave's 'trick' of using the rear hand against the throat of the rear paddle), is now set up for a dive rather than a supporting stroke.
pool training suggestion: Using a body board as a paddle float is a great help for separating the setup practice, from the sweep/finish practice. Place the paddle on the board and then reverse the recovery to invert into the water. It quickly becomes obvious that the initial sweep out is important to get leverage for the rotation aspect of the roll, and also allows/ensures that beginners 'get up' for the last bit where head position would be key.
Yes, I've seen the common fault too. The roll is so ingrained in my muscle memory, I move my back hand automatically to 'feel' for the rear blade. I can't remember it ever slicing using this method. Love the pool training suggestion. Thanks for your comment.
Great, thanks 👍
You are welcome! Happy paddling.
Great Video Dave!
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for taking the time to comment.
Brilliant instructions
Thank you
If you are lurking for rolls, then it is worth trying to compare and contrast the differences between the different 'how to roll' guides and get a feeling for which aspect go together and which ones form distinct variants. Some things are just 'sensible cheats', and others will be fighting failures in other parts of the offered techniques.
A big distinction between some rolls is whether the body is 'laid back' or 'folded forward' when coming out of the water. There is no in-between. The angles on the spine prevent body & shoulder rotation if your posture is just 'middling'.
If you are sitting up ready to paddle when its all over, rather than swimming then ✅☑✅☑!
Thanks for the comment. Absolutely agree! Keep on paddling!
I was able to roll after one session of instruction at the Nantahala training center. It pissed off the instructor when I nailed an opposite side roll on the first attempt. My roll was bomb proof after the week long class, as I sucked at the rest of the skills and found myself upside down so often that all I really did going down River was flip and roll..... Over and over and over again the entire length of the river!!! Believe me, is much more enjoyable if you can do the other stuff well enough you don't have to constantly roll!!!
Hello Bryan. Many thanks for taking the time to comment. I do appreciate it. I 'm really pleased you nailed your roll - it is so important and makes kayaking much more enjoyable especially on white water. I do agree that you should back up your roll with other skills like kayak edging, bracing, sweep strokes and bow rudders to try and minimise the number of rolls. These skills take time though and your bombproof roll will save your swims in the meantime. Have fun Bryan.
"pissed off the instructor because" you were successful. come now.... really.
Must remember the advice "to take a deep breath" before the roll. I usually exhale strongly before going under!
Absolutely. And it's worse if the water is cold. Grabbing a breath does become natural after a few practices. Thank you for your comment. Happy paddling.
As others have pointed out in step 8 you are high bracing. In the low brace the back face of the paddle with knuckles pointing down is used. In your demonstration you are using the power face with knuckles pointing up. Classic high brace, even if you kept the other hand lower.
Thanks for clarifying!
Haha, if only it was that simple. Effective rolling in hard whitewater
Is more than just mechanics.
Absolutely! I mention the need to practice - and this is the key! Thanks for your comment.
Step 8, what you call a low brace, is actually shown as a high brace, right? Nice vid, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your comment and glad you liked the video. You are correct - I didn't drop my arms as much as I should to create a low brace. Either way, the point is to have a brace (high or low) ready as you finish the roll - just in case you start to drop back in. Keep safe.
@@EdDaveKayaking Thanks for your comment as well, happy newyear!
@@kayasper6081 And you too.
I'm inspired!
Great! Hope it goes well for you
Nice. One of the most useful I've viewed. What kind of Dagger is Dave using?
Thank you for the positive comment. Really appreciated. It's a Dagger GT Max for Dave and Ed has a GT 7.8. Both awesome kayaks and surf really well ->>> ruclips.net/video/8uOw0-Is8R0/видео.htmlsi=1gS4DGgyCbNNeoT6
Great instructions!
Glad you liked it and many thanks for taking the time to comment.
@@EdDaveKayaking I really enjoyed the instructions. Very clear. I don’t have any rolling schools here so will be trying to learn this myself by looking at RUclips videos 😅 most instruction videos just show people rolling without commentary so this has been great!
@@Fishaholicboy Thanks for the feedback. I see you use a Greenland paddle for some of your trips. The basic concepts of the roll will still apply, but you will need to keep leaning back (body close to the kayak) and push the paddle in a wide arc to maximise leverage. There are YT videos specifically about using a Greenland paddle to roll - these could help you. Good luck and do keep in touch.
Well I think the guy is trying to help, the hand positions for first learning look fine, but hello I’ve only been paddling since 1964 so what do I know. The only thing I would say is you have to practice and it eventually becomes second nature no looking at your hand positions. Yes it does become automatic a bit like becoming one with your boat.
Thanks for your comment. Your experience is invaluable! As you say, practice is the key - either in a swimming pool, river or lake (all done safely of course). Hope you enjoy your paddling. Have fun.
What's with shifting your hands? You're settling yourself up for a whole heap of problems when used in anger.
I'd also take issue with the "tight" grip on the paddle.
And as for the finishing position with the shoulder at full extension...
Many thanks for your comment. I do appreciate it. This is my version of the roll based on my experiences and it has worked very well for me over the years - with success and no injuries. The aim of the video is to provide an insight into how it works and each aspect is fully explained. You only need to slide your hand *along* the paddle as explained at 1:08, you are not "shifting your hands". The "tight" grip is to ensure that the paddle is pushed underwater to arrive on the other side of the kayak as at 1:35. A common mistake is be too loose and allow the water to resist the paddle blade which means it won't be in the correct place. The finishing position of the arm is high and you are correct, a proper warm up and carefully pulling on the paddle will avoid injury. Stay safe.
@@EdDaveKayaking A tight grip increases the likely-hood of the paddler pulling down toward riverbed/using paddle as a lever.
Have you seen The Kayak Roll? Developed by a group of professionals.
ruclips.net/video/K_nvVwnrIhg/видео.html
Hip "flick": As an older person, I hate the term 'flick'. It suggest a fast, very dynamic and somewhat aggressive motion, that's not always possible with that flick visualisation. I prefer the buttock swap view, especially if practised statically upright.
In practice (I visualise) it's the rotation of the boat such that it is tucked underneath the upper body by bringing the 'far away' thigh across and under one's belly button (no heads are raised during this manoeuvre;-)
A great explanation. Thanks for your comment.
I would suggest most beginners should learn how to "hand roll" so they realise the importance of the hip-flick and synchronisation with the kayak position during it's roll. Then, introduce the paddle. There will be times you will need to roll and don't have a paddle.
Many thanks for the comment. Hand rolling is certainly a great way of testing out your hip flick - especially if you have access to a swimming pool. Have fun and stay safe.
Sorry for my early comment, it was a bit overdramatic and unhelpful. This isn't how I or any kayak instructors I know would teach the roll, but it wont kill anyone to try some different approaches as they develop
Thank you. I decided to break down the roll in to all the steps so it's clear what I do. In teaching this, I would combine multiple steps to make it easier for the paddler to learn and do. Happy paddling.
This is so interesting! I haven't heard the term "Screw Roll" since I was a kid in the 1980's. My dad taught me an extended paddle roll which was similar to what you are teaching here except one would grab the back blade of the paddle for even more leverage. The roll you're teaching and the extended paddle roll might not work for most people here in the states as 90 degree paddles are out of fashion. Nowadays we teach sweep or C to C and most people use a combination of the two.
Many thanks for your comment. It's always interesting to hear how others are doing it and to bring these ideas and techniques to our paddling. I was a kid in 80's hence the term 'Screw Roll' - who knew I was that old! Have a great day and happy kayaking.
I've tried that roll using 45° and 30° asymetric blades, you can get the climbing blade angle by gripping the top corner of the blade and holding the blade almost flat to your forearm
leverage has nothing to do with with, if you are relying on levering up on your paddle, you will fail most times, the paddle is to position your body...then hip flick, head down
Do your paddle blades have to be feathered?
Thanks for the question. It's useful to have feathered blades with an offset up to 90 degrees. The offset helps you to paddle in strong headwinds, give an improvement in speed and it's easier on your wrist rotation. Here's some more information on our website: www.kayaking-canoeing-tips.com/choosing-a-kayak-paddle.html. Have fun and stay safe.
It's an old-school paddle philosophy.
@@martin.feuchtwanger Thank you for your comment. Yes, it is. I was taught this roll a long time ago. Served me well though. 😊
Wrong hand position at the beginning. Your hands should be as the paddling position. Step 8 : you're at high brace support.
Many thanks for your comment. I do move my hands to enable me to correctly align the paddle blade - as mentioned in the video. Yes, the brace at the end is more high than low - thanks for pointing it out. Have fun and stay safe.
This just seems like explaining a Greenland layback roll with extra steps
I wasn't familiar with the roll you mentioned so did look it up. You are right, it's very similar. I have broken the roll into more steps to highlight what I think are the key parts of my roll. Of course, you could combine some of the steps if you wanted. Thanks for your comment.
Don’t lean upstream ❤
Absolutely right! Thank you for your comment.
Wow. Which place?
It's on the River Teme near Worcester for the rolling and the weir at the start is Nafford Weir near Pershore. Thanks for your comment.
This is not how to roll. Sometimes a swim is better than a terribly done roll or brace. The techniques shown here are liable to get you injured if you try to use them on anything except the most mellow and forgiving of rivers. I can see you are catching some well deserved crits in the comments, so let me just say I hope you keep learning and pursue a deeper knowledge before trying to upload further tutorials. RUclips may thrive on hyperbole and click-baiting, but kayaking is a potentially dangerous activity. From when I started paddling back in 97 till now, several paddlers I have known have died. In all but one of these instances it was due to them overestimating their ability on a known quantity of water. Stay safe, stay real, have fun.
Many thanks for taking the time to comment. The idea of this video is to show people the basic steps involved in a roll. It's a roll I have used and taught for many years and it has worked for me - on flat and white water. Although you criticise it, you don't provide specifics so I am unable to comment on this. I agree that it could be refined as with most techniques in kayaking - there is always room for improvement. For viewers, they must take away what works for them and merge this into their own experience and skill levels to help them operate at their safe level. I am sorry to hear of losses in our sport. Stay safe Sir ... see you on the river.
@@EdDaveKayaking For one, you body position is awful at the end of the roll, you're leaning back to lower the centre of gravity to assist the roll rather than rotating your upper body fully. You'll get away with it up to grade 3 but in grade three you'd be very unstable and likely go back under. 2, what on earth is the offset hand position all about, not necessary. 3, on a sweep roll you should not be relying on paddle pressure. Rotation causing your knee to lift is what rolls the kayak in a sweep roll, NOT paddle pressure. Poor rolling technique, video should be removed for safety reasons.
* never swin again * ohh yeag, you still will swin trust me on that
Always a possibility in certain circumstances - a great roll is going to minimise it though! Have fun and keep paddling.
1 easy step...keep your head down
Thanks for the comment. Keeping your head low to the kayak helps enormously.
I'm afraid "Never Swim Again" is just not a realistic goal. As a recent beginner that had a very confident flatwater roll on both sides, the first time I hit a big hole and turned upside down into violent whitewater it all went straight out the window. Also, though I'm not qualified to say it, I've heard it said that even the best will swim at some point.
It's just a video and makes for a title that encourages you to want to watch so you don't have to come out of your kayak as much.. I'm pretty sure he knows it's not 'The goal' to never swim, because even sometimes the uncertainty of what's coming could make you want to pop a deck instead of attempting a roll, but is just an exaggerated version of explaining that if you have a good roll you swim less, right?
Thanks for your comments. The goal is to never swim again and aiming for this means much more chance of success. The roll shown is one of many variants - it works for me and therefore others might be able to take something from it to help them. You are correct, there is always the chance of a swim. Safe paddling.
For one, you body position is awful at the end of the roll, you're leaning back to lower the centre of gravity to assist the roll rather than rotating your upper body fully. You'll get away with it up to grade 3 but in grade three you'd be very unstable and likely go back under. 2, what on earth is the offset hand position all about, not necessary. 3, on a sweep roll you should not be relying on paddle pressure. Rotation causing your knee to lift is what rolls the kayak in a sweep roll, NOT paddle pressure. Poor rolling technique, video should be removed for safety reasons.
Many thanks for your comment. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I value this. This type of roll has worked for me many times on all kinds of water including in stoppers, on grade 4 water and in significant surf on the sea. If you watch the video, I do explain about the offset hand position and how the sweep is helping to rotate the kayak. Have fun and stay safe.
As an avid kayaker... this is extremely dangerous. One way or another your getting cold and wet. Perfect way to die.
You make a good point. When practising rolling, you must make a judgement as to how dangerous it is and whether you are capable and equipped to continue. In the middle of winter, for example, without the correct clothing, it would be cold, wet and dangerous. Thank you for your comment.
"Dave's kayak roll" my ass. This is just a standard sweep roll described in far too many steps. The two biggest fallacies with your instruction is 1: assuming you can set up before rolling, which almost never happens in actual paddling and 2: sperating the hip flick from the sweep. These are simultaneously movements.
Many thanks for your comment. You are right, the essence of the roll is indeed a sweep roll. I have added in a few tweaks and labelled it my roll (forgive my indulgence). Setting up before rolling is an important part of the practice for this roll, but, as you say, this is not always possible on white water. Splitting the roll into individual steps allows a full explanation of how each step works and fits into the whole roll. You and I agree, all parts are needed to produce a successful roll. Stay safe.
@@EdDaveKayaking There is literally no difference between this and a sweep roll.... So your indulgence is rather egotistical at best. You've not added any substantive improvement to what people have done for years, which is fine, just don't presume it's "yours"
@@AnonymousOtters Why so nasty?? Can.t you find nice sayings???