Don't Use Aureolin in Your Painting!! Lightfastness Testing Aureolin
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- Опубликовано: 24 янв 2025
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Aureolin with PY40
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Aureoline (Sennelier) www.jacksonsar...
Aureolin (Art Spectrum) www.jacksonsar...
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Aureolin Hues
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Aureolin Hue (Turner) www.jacksonsar...
Aureolin (Lukas) www.jacksonsar...
Azo Yellow (Aureolin) (M. Graham) www.jacksonsar...
Aureolin Modern (QoR) www.jacksonsar...
Quinacridone Rose (Daniel Smith) www.jacksonsar...
Scarlet Lake (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
Ultramarine Blue (Oto)
Phthalo Blue Yellow Shade (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
Ultramarine Violet (Schmincke) www.jacksonsar...
Pro Arte Prolene Plus size 12 round brush www.jacksonsar...
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My face when I hear the companies lightfastness rating 😒😒😒 Thanks for sharing this Oto!
Also, it's hilarious that Hoblien's hue is all three of my favorite yellows 😂
Yay so glad you like that hue. I think it's a really close match to the genuine colors.
I can thoroughly recommend Schmincke Aureolin Modern. It glows beautifully and remains true to color. Susan Harrison-Tustain Artist/Author/Art instructor.
Wow! Great info thanks. Glad I don’t own and use any but still wow!
You are so welcome, thank you so much for watching Steve :D
The only time I’ve used Aureolin was to create a series of watercolours (on the theme of transience) intentionally using fugitive paint and ink (and/or pigments whose motto is “I’m fading and I’m taking you with me” with bad reactions with other pigments or paper), with an agreement that the person hanging the show would place the art facing the room’s big, sunny, art-unfriendly windows. So I looked at your Sennelier test and thought: that’s perfect! 😁 The person in charge placed my pieces in an area protected from natural light, I think out of misunderstanding. Ah well. Maybe I’ll hang them in my garden.
Your series sounds beautiful! Do you have a website/social media showing it? I'd love to see it.
Dr. Oto Kano Oh, thank you, I wish I could show you. Unfortunately, I don’t have any record of it at all! I was planning to take photos over the course of the installation, then there were some other mixups and misunderstandings, then I was out of town for a while, so I decided in an artistic fit to embrace the transience and not record the art. But I plan to try it again. I still have all that Aureolin I won’t ever use!
Oh, that sounds like a lovely idea! I've been thinking along the same lines, of using fugitive colors specifically for that property, but I've never done anything specific with it.
@@SPQRKlio well that was dumb
you are more understanding than I would be. I mean that as a compliment-good for you!
This is so very fascinating!! I had heard about this issue with this color, but actually seeing it is mind-boggling. :o I have an aureolin in one of my palettes.. I'll have to check and see which pigment is used. Thanks so much, Oto!
you're right. I was shocked too when I saw just how it turned color! I hope you have the non-fugitive brand :)
Glad I watched this video. I have Sennelier Aureolin in my set but I rarely use it.
No! I am new to using Aureolin and had just purchased Daniel Smith's! I wish I knew this 2 weeks ago. Thank you, Oto. I will have to get Holbeins or Schminke's then. What a disappointment!
oh I am so sorry that you just got yours!
"Good" Lightfastness?? I guess that means that "Good" lightfastness is basically fugitive under the sun :|
(I love Schmincke's and Holbein's hues!)
lmao I know right? Can't trust them!
Great to see this. I have studied Bruce's handprint website as well as several other more updated ones since 2008 and its great to see this warning put out there in video. I would so love to see this same test in brands with Iron blue PB27 which is both Antwerp Blue and Prussian Blue. I am planning to do more of my own testings with this pigment and several more. Thanks so much for sharing. You are so sweet I could hug you! But I am the elderly grandmotherly type.
I just went through all my neglected Winsor & Newton wc's and was very drawn to Aurelion, but now I see I need to proceed with caution if I decide to use it. Thanks so much!
It's really good that you went through your collection to make sure :)
My W&N box had two almost identical yellows when I got it, they are Aureolin and Winsor Yellow. Today they looks completely different, the Aureolin looks a lot darker and dirtier. This is surprising because it really does not get used often, and is never in outright sunshine, which means I will be swapping it out. Thanks for bringing this info to us, and such a comprehensive look at possible solutions.
I've also heard that Aureolin sometimes reacts just to water and darkens too, but I've not tested this out (which is why I didn't mention it in the video).
I panicked when I first saw this. I had just ordered Aurelian after watching your color series (which was excellent!). I looked and thankfully ordered Holbein which seems to have done better on your tests. You must have recommended this as a good option, as I typically use another brand of paint. Thank you!
That was a much appreciated and thorough study on aureolin. I banned it from my palette years ago, but along with alizarin crimson, it's a seductive color. After watching your video, I may add it back by way of Holbein's hue. Thank you.
You are so right, those two colors are so seductive indeed. Hope you like the Holbein hue, it's my favourite.
Great info, I think doing your own lightfastness tests are best as i dont think manufacturers are always reliable. For once I'm glad to say I have the Holbein Hue, it is a really nice colour.
You are so right, can't trust those manufacturer labels on lightfastness!
This is definitely the most comprehensive video on cobalt yellow, Oto. I really enjoyed it. PY40 is not recommended much anymore, except by Hazel Soan, who also uses genuine PR83 and PB27. I own a really old tube of PY40 from Winsor and Newton but only use it in sketchbooks, if at all. It is a very expensive pigment also. My favourite alternative is PY151 from either Schmincke or M Graham. Have you seen that Jackson's now stock M Graham watercolours? Very exciting for us European watercolour artists. :)
Yes! I saw that MG is now available on Jackson's. it is super exciting :D
I love, love PY151 from Schmincke. It is the most neutral character-less yellow that perfectly fits my needs.
Thank you fir sharing this test...very helpful for a beginner like me.
This popped up on my recommended for some reason.
I'm an oil painter. I've had the same results with Aureolin mixed with various oil whites. Leave it in bright sunlight and it turns the same dull ochre. The pure samples changed less, but it probably just needed more time to get the same effect. So I've got a double sized tube of this expensive colour, which I'm never going to use, and has been kicking around my paint box for about thirty years. Seemed like a good idea at the time.
Great review Doc! One thing the color Holbein aureolin mixed with the cool red.....gorgeous! I had the hardest time getting that shade of peach it’s a tough color to identify and mix! :) great work!
Thanks Erin :) yeah that mix is sooooo nice! Hope you have fun making lots of that color.
I have been watching your videos for a few weeks now and really enjoying them! But this video was so useful and informative that I decided to become a Patreon supporter. Thank you so much for this valuable information.
So glad you've been enjoying the videos! Thank you so much for becoming a Patreon, I really appreciate your support Danelle.
@@OtoKano It's only a pleasure!
Thanks for the warning. I might still get this colour anyway to use it in watercolour sketchbooks. As sketchbooks spend more time closed than open I'll take the risk. I have some W&N Gamboge, a lucky find, and whilst it's madly fugitive In daylight (to the point of disappearing completely) it is fine in a sketchbook.
Hope you have fun with them in your sketchbook :)
Whew.... I use the Schminche PY151 - I do love it. I replaced my W&N Aureolin a few years ago for reasons not relating to lightfastness! I'm glad now that I did! Thank you for doing this video, It was very helpful.
Good call! Schmincke's one is very nice :)
Thank you again for your diligence on the color tests you do, Oto. I hope this particular video gets many views, as this information is not widely enough known. If it was, I'm sure the pigment would not get enough sales to make it profitable.
Thank you! So glad it's useful to you :) I hope other people get to see this video too, if only to save them the heartbreak later.
I'm SO grateful I found your video prior to setting up my new limited pallete for painting with triads.
I had WN set out but am changing to Schminke. I also have MG. How did I purchase 35-40 Holbein tubes without it "blows me away"!...lol
I'm ordering it..
Thank you for ur diligence and dedication to finding and sharing truth.. So sad harm caused in name of greed
Very useful tip 👍🏻 We knew it but noticing it makes us remove the Auréoline from our palette 🎨😱 Thanks 🙂
I like the graying. I wonder how I can get that color. It’s pretty.
OMG I love this video so much!!!! Thanks for the tests! I've been using the Azo Yellow from M Graham and I'm going to do a lightfast window test on it. YAY!!!
I think Azo Yellow from MG should be fine!
Schminke's is gorgeous.
I'd like to see more of these UV tests for the colors. I live in Seattle so it's not sunny a lot of the times. :/
I supposed I could use a UV plant light, but not sure if that would be the same.
In the 1990s M Wilcox published a book on watercolors, almost every color offered by most color houses of the time. He lists pigment(s) used the paint's ASTM lightfastness rating and comments regarding it's work ability. Out of print I think for decades but can sometimes be found used.
Thanks for that, I have the Daniel Smith version of Aureolin yellow but I wondered about the lightfastness of it, so haven’t used it so much. I’d really hate to sell someone a painting that’s going to fade.
Well, this was eye opening but in a different way than I expected! I knew that this one was fugitive, but since I usually paint in sketchbooks I wasn't really bothered by that. I actually have Rose Madder Genuine on my palette and just ordered Alizarin Crimson too. However, your video made me realise that my Aureolin is actually one of the hues, I have the Rembrandt one! That explains why I felt vaguely reminded of Aureolin when I bought Rembrandt's Gamboge, because that has PY150 in it too. In the end I got the WN New Gamboge because I found the Rembrandt one too close to their Aureolin which I already had on my palette. I also felt that my Aureolin mixes were turning out too punchy and I couldn't really understand why until your video. Turns out the Rembrandt Aureolin is listed wrongly at dickblick as PY40 when it is PY150 and I didn't read the tube 😁. Next time I order paints I'll make sure to add some Aureolin Genuine, because it's supposed to mix magnificently with Cobalt Blue and Rose Madder Genuine. By the way, I really love the Rembrandt one for making lamp light with a thin wash. I almost never use it at full strength, which is probably why I don't notice the streakiness you have in your mass tone.
So glad you got to solve this puzzle! Yes I would be confused too if I was using PY150 when I thought it was PY40. Very different colors. It's awesome that you are using so many fugitive colors. I know they are fugitive by my gosh are the real deals (especially alizarin crimson and rose madder) just so beautiful.
Dr. Oto Kano They are just so very beautiful! I obviously wouldn't use them in pieces that are meant to be displayed, but since I prefer sketchbooks anyway, I might as well use these lovely pigments and only use the light fast alternatives where I have to use them. So far I also haven't found any satisfying alternatives for Rose Madder or Alizarin Crimson. Quin Rose is nice too, but much more popsicle coloured than Rose Madder. Permanent Alizarin Crimson doesn't look like the real deal either! What really threw me with the PY150 was the crazy lime green I got when mixed with Cobalt Blue when I was expecting something much more muted. Thank you for helping me figure it out, your videos are so useful!
You are so right. I can't find a satisfying real replacements for those colors either. The hue ones aren't that good as far as I have tested.
I know this is old, but commenting that DaVinci has done some kind of chemistry magic and theirs (which does hav PY3 in it too) it is pretty good! I have tested it myself for three months in a summer window in North Carolina.
I'm looking for some sunny yellow. It's very helpful material. Whay about Aquarius R. Szmal they have 305 Aureoline Hue (Py 151) and 308 Nickle Azo yellow (Py 150)?
Maybe some additional tests are possible?
Thanks in advance
Cobaltcolors are one or my absolute favorite color family and I'm so unhappy that PY40 isn't lightfast. I wasn't aware that so many brands still offer it. I only knew from Daniel Smith and mission gold. Mijello has a genuine PY40 under cobalt yellow instead or the name aureoline and it's most expensive it costs 30 Euros for 15ml here in Germany (double the price than Daniel Smith and normally Daniel Smith is much more expensive here). I'm glad I did see this video a while ago before ingesting in a tube, Mijello gives their version 5 of 5 stars so maximum lightfastness. I really wonder why all brands say it's lightfast when it really isn't. I would have been really mad if I bought a Mijello tube for 30 Euros just to see afterwards it isn't lightfast and end up brown.
I am so glad I googled Cobalt yellow before purchasing. Thank you so much for the research
Extremely useful video‼️
THANKYOU
Hi Dr. Kano, Thank you for this video (and all the others you make). You have the BEST information I've ever found, in terms of watercolor color. Have you done a light fast test with DiVinci watercolor? Their Aureolin is much cleaner (out of the tube) than Daniel Smith's. But, that doesn't mean it is lightfast. They rate it at "very good" but that might not be true or accurate ... as your video shows with the other brands that say "good" too. Thank you again. =) I hope you are having a great day.
Hi Oto - you're so thorough in your tests! I don't think I've seen a test of Daniel Smith's Mayan yellow yet? It looks the closest to Aureolin of the yellows I own. Would you recommend it as an alternative?
Yes it is a good replacement for PY40. It is a series 3 color though so it might be a pricy replacement.
This was SO helpful. Thanks for sharing. I bought the Holbein brand.
Thank you for this video. It is very informative and you’ve given good substitutes for it. It’s my favorite color and pigment and most others i’ve seen about really just give it’s negatives, without offering a substitute. It’s browning when exposed to light is a downside but i try to incorporate that aspect into the design of the piece I’m working on.
I just discovered Mijello has a cobalt yellow (and imho thats similar to (cobalt)aureolin) that claims to be highly lightfast. for me a 15 ml tube for 20€ ist just way to expensive to have a try, but i thought i would drop this information here. Would love to hear something about this color :)
It's PY40, so the same pigment. Cobalt Yellow and Aureolin(e) are the same pigment by two different names so it will also brown over time.
I think I have that Winsor and Newton one. It was one of the first professional tubes. I’m sad that it will be banished. I’m just not organized enough to remember to only use it in sketchbooks and such. I love in such a sunny place, it would be doomed!
yes me too! If it's totally fugitive, it just needs to get out of my way lol
Thank you
Very informative.thank you
What about St Petersburg's Aureolin?
i have many brands but in any of them i have this yellow. What about Martha Graham aureolin yellow?- i orderd the basic set ( cant found them individually)and this yellow is included. Normally i do not buy sets, only single colours in tubes. thanks for your video!
Thank you!!! Such good information!!🤩
Hey it’s not so sunny in Scotland today! It’s more like typical Scotland summer today! Really useful info. I know I have the W&N one.
lol yes it's raining here too. Perfect soup day!
Eek, gods! I nearly bought this! Thank you so much for the video!
You are so welcome! And well done on not buying it.
Daniel Smith Aureolin has a Lightfastness: II - Very Good.
Sadly, I just bought Daniel Smith's aureolin. Maybe I can return it. Wish I had seen this video before! Thank for the video
I'm sorry if I missed this in the video but I have a question. I have 2 Holbein Aureolins. One is, as above, PY154, 175, 150. The other is PY3, 42. Is the second one an old batch maybe? Either way, I want to know if the second one would also pass the lightfastness test. Thank you so much. I sure appreciate all you do!
The old Holbein shade you have is the one listed on Handprint.com. PY3 and PY42 are both lightfast shades, especially PY42 although you may want to look on Handprint for information on the tests he did.
This was really interesting. I don't have Aureolin and have never used it. The cool yellow which came with my initial Essential 7 set from Susie Short was Hansa Yellow Medium. Although, I have heard more recently that Hansa Yellow Medium is a neutral yellow. However, the tube that I have makes a more vibrant green when mixed with Phthalo Blue (GS) than it makes an orange when mixed with any one of the reds that I have.
You are right, I would say that Hansa Yellow Medium is a middle yellow that's slightly leaning towards the cool side.
Hansa Yellow Light would be your cool yellow.
Excellent, very good... Anything below that better be scanned and distributed as print. Sad story... This is totally fugitive :( like others... There's never enough warning before these gorgeous, but fugitive pigments!
I agree, brands should be more honest about the lightfastness of their colors.
Great video, Oto! I discovered this issue when Winsor & Newton Aureolin turned an ugly grey on my palette many years ago. I then replaced PY40 with WN Transparent Yellow which was made of PY97 at the time and an excellent substitute, a very soft and neutral yellow. Unfortunately WN changed Transparent Yellow to PY150 (a truly great color but not the same at all) and I've been wondering what to use when my tube of TY runs out. I've used DS HMY, but it's more intense and warmer so I might check out Holbein's version, but it's very expensive in the states, about $18/15ml tube. I have a tube of DS Mayan Yellow which I might use as it makes good mixes, or have been considering DS Lemon Yellow ($10 US) since your showdown. I understand why people keep using PY40 and PR83 despite the issues--they are both beautiful, glowy colors that are hard to emulate. Same reason we miss PY153 and PO49 :) some pigments just glow.
I agree with you. Some pigments just glow and have a unique character that can't be recreated with other colors. Alizarine Crimson is definitely one of those!
How about Grumbacher Aureolin? It advertises as "opaque" and "very good" lightfastness. I would be interested to have your opinion on this brand (GRUMBACHER).
This may seem like a stupid question, but is there a way to maybe pre-emptively force the lightfast effect in Aureolin before you eve use it?
I do like the dull brownish color, but of course only if it isn't on a painting where I would have used Aureolin in hopes of the color staying fresh.
Thank you! This is so, so informative and thorough.
I am new to water colour and just got the White Nights Aureolin and I am shocked seeing this video.
Any WN colour advice on what I should replace it with (asuming it has the same browning effect)? Thank you! :)
Thank You so much for all the work you did for this video! So informative and helpful! 😊😊
you are so welcome :D Thanks for watching the video!
I had contemplated buying the Daniel Smith one in the past but I definitely won't be now :( Thanks Oto :) Savied my pennies lol
you are so welcome :D I make these videos to save people money, so your comment made me so happy!
Have you, since this comparison, tested QOR Aureolin Modern?
Well that was a real. eye opener 😳 I’m assuming PY40 is the most mis-labeled color out there? I know PB27 has issues w labeling as well. Thanks for the test. Your Holbein hue is lovely. 💛
I would agree with you. I mean fading is one thing but turning grey? That's just awful. I love Holbein's one so much :)
Opera can beat Aureolin when it comes to fading as Opera can fade in less than a week to a very boring ordinary pink... Olive Green also fade badly as it contain PB27 and some yellow usually Hansa Yellow PY3 that can fade on its own...
My question is: what paper were you using for your tests? Were your windows washed with vinegar & water? “The Wilcox Guide to the Best Watercolor Paints” says “Fast to light under normal circumstances it can be affected by weak acids and alkalis. The use of neutral Ph watercolor paper and quality framing will overcome this.” I realize this book was published in 1991, Daniel Smith and M Graham are not even in the book. I am just starting back to watercolor after a long hiatus, so I am not up to date with my info. I found I have 2 nearly new unused tubes of aureolin in my paint box. I guess I have to adjust my paints!
Buenas; alguien ha pensado que no sea la luz...?. Puede ser el agua y la reacción del pigmento aureolin a cualquier mineral, cal o cloro del agua.
Igualmente a la reacción con el ambiente ácido producido por la contaminación atmosférica.
Me gustaría que la misma prueba se hiciera con agua destilada, y protegiendo el pigmento con un barniz.
Seguramente cuando se descubrió ese pigmento, ni el agua estaba tan alterada, ni había tanta contaminación, y por ello fue ampliamente usado sin problemas alguno de alteración a la luz.
Saludos y muchas gracias.
Thank you so much for the review!
You are so welcome Sherri, thank you for watching!
Luckily I only had a tiny tube of WN aureolin- after watching this I tossed it in the trash as I do not want that gray colour showing up! Thanks!
So glad this video could save you the headache of having it turn grey on you!
Very informative
I love White Nights Aureolin! PY151
If you believe the companies lightfastness test on this one, it's going to go bad. Thanks for sharing this experience and the hues and comparing them to the original pigment. :)
You are so welcome Lana! Yes don't just trust what they tell you!
Does anyone know all the fugitive colors?
Few others common from artist quality paints:
- Alizarin Crimson - PR83
- Opera Pink
- Rose Madder - NR9
For thorough lightfastness tests you should definitely check Handprint:
www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterfs.html
Prussian Blue is another notorious one.
Thank you!
Indigo PB66 (not all paints named Indigo use this pigment though)
Maybe I’m weird but I kinda like the colour aureolin fades into… Could someone start making an “aged aureolin” watercolour?
That is insane!! Just bought a yellow and so happy I didn’t get this one! 😂
phew! Lucky escape. Which one did you get?
Dr. Oto Kano I got the Daniel Smith Mayan Yellow, it’s so pretty, but pricey. It’s so hard to find a transparent yellow!
Nice choice, it's a lovely yellow.
More than light i think the change in hue has more to do with thermal degradation...
Even some cadmiums, when not proprely cleaned of impurities proprely, can have hue shuft under direct sunlight, not because the pigment if necessarily fugitive, but more because the pigment had a thermal degradation caused from a thermic reaction with thise impurities... This is what i was able to understand...
If you look at aureolin, it never actually fade, showing the white of the paper, but rather dull down, witch mean that there is a different proces involved...
The question is now: how can we test this color ehile keeping the surface the pigment is on cool?
I guess I should replace my W&N with Schminke... Goddarnit!
Well.....I don’t think I have this color, so I’m safe! (Although seeing Arleebean’s comment down there made me suddenly panic and not be able to remember if the m graham yellow she gave me is Aurelian so aaaaaaah!!!) and I used whatever yellow she gave me in one of my animal artists collective videos!!! 🙀
wooooooo... I really hope the one she gave you is MG!
Well, it being called AUREAOLINE might be because of the remaining hue it ends up having afer sun exposure.
what about the brand White Night?
From what's available to me in the UK, it doesn't seem like they have an Aureolin?
I know this is an old comment, but was scrolling through and accidentally saw this. White Nights just added Aureolin hue to their line. It's a beautiful transparent PY151, a very cool hue. Just got it and love it over all their other yellows. Jackson's doesn't have the new hues on their website yet, but Teoh Yi Chie reviewed the new lineup on his channel, you can see the swatches there: ruclips.net/video/_KmsBbqhwaA/видео.html
The White Nights Aureolin is PY 151. I have it and it is great
A couple years ago I found a huge 37ml tube of Da Vinci Aureolin on clearance at the local art store. I grabbed it up. I knew nothing about the color, but I immediately fell in love. It quickly became my favorite yellow. I used it for a month or two, fully infatuated. Then I read on a forum: "Don't use Aureolin. It's not lightfast!" My heart broke. I did a lightfast test of my own, sticking it in a window for a year, and it barely faded. Nevertheless, I don't trust it anymore. Now my giant tube of Aureolin sits in a box, sad and forgotten. :(
As this video show, not every Aureolin fades. DaVinci showed to be good, so why stop using it, especially if you like it so much?
Ostras 😮 me quedo muerta 😮
The m-Graham is not transparent it’s semi transparent
I actually love and use Aureolin. BUT i always preach to everyone NO DIREKT LIGHT. Seems its actually even worse then I ever thought... Edit : I use the Sennelier Aureolin and im gonna buy the Schmincke soon. Me doesnt want any mud :(
Crazy
Your missing QoR
Scotland isn’t California, lol. Very true.
I mean, if that brown greyish whatever hue is what you wanted to paint with, okay. But if you wanted yellow than that's a mega scale no no. I'm surely no expert on lightfastness, but if a colour (and under your Scottish weather conditions at that) shifts or fades that much in less than 6 months, then that isn't a colour I'd consider remotely lightfast, let alone award it with the label of being "good" at that
“good” !? Maybe because they are lightfast in that they don’t fade?? Maybe they need a “light shift” warning ⚠️ on the tube.
noo