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Dragonslayer - The Brand New OSR RPG from the Creator of Barrowmaze
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2024
- In which I cover Greg Gillespie's Dragonslayer. It's his take on the traditional B/X D&D game from the early 80s, and while there isn't anything incredibly groundbreaking in here, it's a beautiful, well-polished, simplified (but not simple) version of the game. I am very happy to have it, and I encourage you all to get it too! At nearly 300 pages, much of which is monsters and spells, you have a lot here!
Here's where you can find it:
preview.drivet...
![Baby Kia - WYG (feat. LAZER DIM 700) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/avlLsOH_oJc/mqdefault.jpg)
I liked Barrow maze a lot. Unfortunately, I am not excited for another B/X variant. Your review is very thoughtful and informative, thanks for that.
It's far more than that, if you've ever played the game past 4th level or mixed AD&D 1E with your BX games, you'll understand the vast power differences in Magix items and spells that this game represents. We've been playing Barrowmaze for three years with OSE until we got Dragonslayer early. The difference is very real.
That's great to hear! I would imagine even small differences add up as the levels progress.
This is exactly what I’ve wanted for years. AD&D/BX Dungeons & Dragons…cleaned up and tweaked for fun. Then, given five star old school presentation. It’s brilliantly done. The print cost? Yep it hurts. But…if you’re going to play this and use it and not just dump it on a shelf then it’s do-able considering the amount of gaming it potentially presents and the massive art budget this must have taken Greg to make it look better than the rest of the OSR pack. Considerable work has also gone into layout and game system nudges. It’s also all the game you need in one book. Greg is a bit of a marmite guy…he’s very abrupt and stands his ground on his opinions but he hasn’t put that vibe or his politics into this game unlike how some other companies do, which I certainly appreciate. I love this, it kicks arse.
Fyi, his Mega-Dungeon Monster Manual are new monsters specifically from his mega-dungeons. The monsters in this product are mostly standard monsters found in B/X and or the AD&D Monster Manual per Greg answering questions in his Dragonslayer group and on interviews. I backed Dragonslayer mostly for the art and some other stuff as I run Barrowmaze with Castles & Crusades.
Awesome! I figured that was the case.
I totally forgot about Dragonslayer! Thanks for reminding me -- it is now available (including print versions) from Drivethru RPG. Just ordered (along with Barrowmaze & Dwarrowdeep)
I'll give the video a like for the Chrono Trigger soundtrack in the background
Thank you for the in depth look. I did not back it, as I had back and picked up a lot of stuff last year.
I think it looks like an awesome B/X plus clone and I will pick it up later - I have a friend who is all about this game.
Right now OSE/ACK and ShadowDark are hitting that old school vibe for me.
This looks great to me. I know I seriously wish to try it out. My only hesitation is $80 for a B&W book. I'll probably pick this up anyway, however. You mentioned Shadowdark, which I've been enjoying as well, along with various other similar systems. There seems to be a great community here, so I'm glad I found this video.
Glad to help! Yeah the price is a tough pill to swallow. I'd say the PDF is sufficient for most tables.
The ironic thing is, I'll most likely buy it just to support the project. I get sucked in that way almost every time. :D@@RedMageGM
:D oh I know precisely what you mean!
I have been waiting for this one, thanks for the overview. The art is incredible.
Absolutely agree! The art is the highlight, imo!
Late to the party, but this looks amazing. Will be getting. Thanks.
It has that 1st Edition AD&D original and rebrand look to it. The branding especially the cover are definitely the AD&D rebrand we got aka orange spine books. I love the wizard (Gygax) on the 6 sider, a tribute to DAT's original piece in the original PHB. The production looks top notch.
It seems to be more a AD&D homebrew rather than B/X, although those systems had a ton of crossover.
Thanks for the review.
You hit the nail on the head, its more AD&D with the simpler rules of B/X integrated than the other way around.
Presentation is wonderful. This seems more like 1e than OSE BX. Art work is really good.
I bought this on the kickstarter, love Gillespie
First (positive) impression: this is the rpg tie in to the 1981 movie, especially with the title and font!
It's definitely got that 80s vibe throughout!!
Would be fun to run as a post-Roman Empire/Dark Ages era themed rpg like the film setting.
Magic users would have to memorize Latin phrases to cast their spells, like the wizard Ulrich.
Dude...you should run that! Make a setting for it, and then share it here cause I'd steal the heck out of that! :)
@@RedMageGM What if magic-users could cast any spell as long as they remembered the phrase? So like 9th level spells would be a paragraph in Latin, cantrips would be a single Latin word. Players would spend time between sessions studying their magic spells lol.
haha oh man...I would be such a bad wizard in that world. :D I can never remember anything!
Can't wait to hear about the other factions, still play 2e and have been toying with the idea of including the planescape setting
I love the old school-style pen art
This looks pretty nice. I love how clean OSE is but the font size is not comfortable for me to read. Digest size books and I don't generally get along (OSRIC I'm looking hard at you). Dragonslayer looks pretty well done and though as mentioned I LOVE how clean the layout of OSE is I'm looking for old school D&D - AD&D that is easy for me to read. My favorite simplified rules are white box and I also like basic fantasy yet I don't play either one. Still looking for that OSR game that is clean and neat like OSE but full size with bit larger font. Will have to see what this looks like in print cuz being an old Grognard with bad eyes sucks!
@11:03 G.E.G = Gary 'Ernest' Gygax, the father of Dungeons & Dragons. And the pic is a homage to a similar drawing on the AD&D Players Handbook.
Love the art but there really isn't enough interesting stuff in the rules to justify the price. It's just another D&D fantasy heartbreaker, albeit an incredibly pretty one.
The art is definitely the highlight!!
WOW! This is awesome. Many thanks for this review. Hooked!
“Simplified not simple” gave me 10e 40k flashbacks.
haha I've actually been really enjoying 10th!
Love the Guardia 1000 A.D. music!
Chrono Trigger music all the way through! :) This is fantastic and adds atmosphere to Dragonslayer! :)
I'm a sucker for Chrono Trigger, so I can't help myself. :)
@@RedMageGM Completely understandable. :)
I've asked this elsewhere and never gotten an answer. All the races' ability adjustments add up to 0 (e.g., +1 CON, -1 DEX) except for the Cyclopsman. It's running a -2 deficit (i.e., +1 CON, -1 INT, -1 WIS, -1 CHA). Any idea if he just forgot to include, say, +2 STR (which would seem appropriate)?
I actually have no idea. It would make sense...
The Strength element of Cyclopsman seems to be done by having a racial stat minimum rather than stat bonus. So…they aren’t stronger than the strongest humans but are generally going to be stronger. It’s a bit of an odd way of doing things compared to the other races but it is what it is. I think they are seen as more of a human variant. They gain darkvision, secret door detection, heat/cold bonuses, poison gas immunity…these cost them an overall stat hit.
I'm an old grog who played D&D, 1e, 2e, 3.5 and 4e, I'm so torn between a lot of these OSR "let's remake 1e/OD&D" rules not because they're bad, but because they all focus on what feels like the Diablo 1 style of gameplay i.e. there might be semblance of a plot, but it's here's the town, here's the dungeon, go at it and hope you get treasure before you randomly get killed by some monsters.
Over the years I started to much more enjoy having an actual theme and plot to a campaign, because at the end of the day we ARE telling a story, and that story breaks down if it's randomly "a wolf ate Frodo" or "the Tusken Raiders killed Luke in an ambush". No fantasy literature or movie has had random deaths of the main characters.
I definitely know what you mean - I think I've had a bit of the reverse trajectory! Had a lot of fun with more narrative heavy adventures and campaigns, and coming more to love the "gamey" style of old school games recently.
I would definitely consider grabbing it if I didn't already have several B/X clones and hacks. The art and presentation look amazing though.
Yeah, the art and presentation are both top of the line!
Very well done. Combat does not play out like BX or Ad&d though. Thank you for the review!
That's great to hear! I would imagine there's a more tactical side to the game, indicated from the pages on position rules, etc. but not having played it I wasn't sure. Good work on the book!
I was so excited for this but but not having ascending AC was a total deal breaker. I run a gaming club and am sick of having to explain descending AC to new players, haha. It's too bad I think a lot more people would have picked this up.
It is definitely a consideration!
Well if that is your only complaint about the game, then why don't you simply use ascending AC? It takes me all of 5/10's of a second to convert it. From a base of AC 10 ( no armor ) a creature with AC 6, is AC 14, A creature with AC 2, is AC 18. Leather armor ( AC 8 ) is AC 12, plate mail ( AC 3 ) is 17. I mean I really didn't have to think about it at all. So I don't at all understand your point. It doesn't get any simpler. I use ascending AC.
That conversion is so easy I'm actually embarrassed I never thought about it back in the day.
I doubt he'll lose much business because of THAC0. Half the reason to buy a book like this is nostalgia.
I would play this if someone else in my group wanted to run it but I wouldn't buy it otherwise. I already have enough BX clones as well as BX.
I can definitely understand that!
Dragonslayer has a great presentation like all his other works. I can see house rules here and there that are fun to add to any b/x game. You have a great introduction in your review ('nothing new'). I wish I didn't experience Greg's online personnality... He is not someone I want to support.
I try not to get involved in all the personal side of things. I find that it usually ruins things. :D
@@RedMageGM I agree. Being an author/designer, you expose yourself to criticisms…
Your channel is great and it seems that you don’t get involve by reporting drama in the osr scene or wotc news :)
Yeah man. I ain't got time for all that nonsense. I'm here to play games and have fun. :)
Looks pretty bit I'm happy I have no need for this. I'm a little bit curious about the little things that have been tweaked in the rules.
It blows my mind that in the year of our Lord 2024, we're still getting newly published systems that still have their head stuck in 5 saving throws and thac0. Don't get me wrong, I love D&D, I'm not a "story-gamer", but good grief, we already have around a hundred thousand versions of B/X and / or 1974.
It's definitely something we've seen before...but imo the book's art is where it's at! :)
I'm curious what you find appealing about Shadowdark over the B/X clones. What about Shadowdark makes it your main game?
I'm coming from 5e, so the sensibilities of the more serious B/X clones are a bit much still. Plus I really like the particular balance of power level to challenge.
_"Maze Controller?"_ Might want to check to make sure Tom Hanks doesn't hold the copyright! 😄
I can honestly say I've never see that movie...I'm not sure I ever will. :D
@@RedMageGM - I saw it on network TV in the early '80s, even before I started playing D&D... You didn't miss much.
I keep it on my movie hard drive, for nostalgia reasons, alongside all the other crappy D&D movies.
There may be an minor error in the text (or perhaps a missing paragraph). On page 260 under "Time" (at 16:55). Where it says: "The Maze Controller tracks time in three ways:", it looks like only two methods are given. I mention it only because you may have access to submit issues.
Great review!
Wow, good catch! I actually don't know if I have access to an errata submission thing, but I can check!
@@RedMageGM I'm curious if he actually has a third method that he likes. The two listed seem to be popular methods. I've seen having a turn expire after a certain number of rooms (usually 3) have been explored, but that seems too abstract for me.
I haven't run into that one before...yeah, I don't think I would use that.
I think under Baalzebul there's a typo. It should be "can only be hit by weapons of +3 or better".
Sounds like another good catch!
Is this out now in it's final form!?
Yessir! It should be available on DTRPG via the link I have in the description.
I see lots of WotC IP that is out of bounds of the OGL, like the beholder there. Isn't that a risk (legal liabiity) for these products? I see a lot of this going on in these OSR products, and I am curious, how do they get away with that? Or is it that WotC just don't care at this point?
IP law is actually pretty vague. But I'm no expert in it. I have seen "eye tyrants" in a million different products so it must be fine. But who am I to say?
Take a look at that document they released under the creative commons. The name is there. NOW the description is not. BTW I didn't see beholder on the video.
Dig the game, not a fan of the title Maze Controller (MC) though. Should have just stuck with GM.
haha yeah I think it's a law somewhere that when you make a new game you have to use a new title for GM. :D
It's a nod to the Mazes & Monsters movie. He also refers to Pardue the holy man, from that same movie. No matter what fantasy rpg I'm playing, whether it's C&C, Shadowdark, OSE, Dragonbane, or Dragonslayer, I am the Dungeon Master. What IS terrible, is MCDM in their game, wants to call it, The Director. How bland, boring and uninspiring is that?
I would imagine that goes to the philosophy behind the role of GM in that system - from what I've seen, they're playing in the realm of "action movie". So in that context, I think "Director" goes along with that idea.
@@RedMageGM I am envisioning the "Director, " instead of asking the players, " what do you do? " to saying, " Aaaaand ACTION ! " I'm old school, so I won't be playing it, but I do wish them luck with the sitting at a table and trying to play a movie thing.
hahaha I'm sure there's an rpg out there with that exact thing! :D
$80? For 300 pages? Just like his mega-dungeons this book is vastly overpriced.
The sticker-shock is real with this one, it's true. I'd say unless you're gonna play the game a lot, or are really a collector, the PDF is more than sufficient.
Considering how little creators get paid from physical books this seems to be the pricing direction smaller popular makers like MCDM have set.
Yeah the price is what made me hold off. I wish he had an offset printing option as well (and not just POD)
Listening to other authors it might be the taxes as Mr Gillespie is Canadian selling the book in a US market.
I think the price is mainly because it's not AI art but I could be wrong.
I think you're probably right - a ton of money must have gone into getting these major artists.
It says "ordinary gentlemen," why the change to people?
Don't think I understand the question...are you asking why I said "excuse me" there? I started to say "extraordinary gentlemen" so I excused myself.
Does it use THACO ?,
At the bottom of the character sheet there's a To Hit Armor Class set that you fill out.
Anyone wanna play?
The art is amazing shame it's based on a outdated old ruleset. I have no appreciation for old school osr clones.
The art is definitely amazing!! I'm with you there!