Maybe they want all the land north of the wall free of humans? The wall seems more magically connected to the others ice magic than the children’s nature magic maybe a similar pact was formed between the humans - others akin to the humans - children pact. They very clearly aren’t mindless in the books given they have there own language + metalworking skills
There is a couple of different symbolism for the others. 1. First the story of ice and fire is the story of ragnorak. With the golden boy who must give his life to end the gods and bring the world to a new age 2. The conformity of war and what it does to a people. That we lose our humanity in war. That the world is in danger of losing our history The first men vs the modern world Of course the long night is fimbul winter
I would somewhat appreciate GRRM for just making the Others into anti-humans whose nature is to hate life and warmth. That's what they appear to be and I must say that the concept is interesting as is. Not everything needs to be super complex.
Exactly, Morgoths motive was simply to destroy all life and yet all the events of the first age sprawled from this being and his simple motive, yet some of the greatest fantasy stories ever told came from it.
@@nkundisebina7893the motivation can be generic, what really matters is what they do to achieve it, the effect on the story, characters and plot is far more interesting than the motive alone. Some of the worst stories ever have characters with interesting motives and some of the best stories ever have characters with simple and "generic" motives.
They are not zombies. They are more like the Sidhe. The babies might be like changelings from old folk tales...hm, they are not returning any of theirs, though. If they have them.
Craster is a UNIQUE character-not just because he gives his sons over to The Others. Why the focus on Craster? Who The ef is he that The Others want HIS boys? Look at Varymyr-that asshole would GLADLY give ALL of his children, let alone the sons, in order to survive Craster Style. AND his kids have the potential to be powerful wargs-there is no question THERE as to why The Others SHOULD want Varymyr's sons as well as Craster's. So the Craster deal IS rare-it is ONLY about Craster and HIS blood. MY guess is that he is related to the Night's King from The Wall. And it is also "known" by the Wildlings; Craster's "deal" and WHY he gives his sons over. Ygritte tells Jon how Mance invited him to head South with them. THAT does NOT happen unless Mance and the Wildlings feel something other than disgust and hatred for Craster. It also means that it also makes it likely that Mance IS helping Wildlings that were working with Others. The Wildlings-that Wall WAS made for them, too. Ygritte tells Jon that the Giants were magically enslaved and forced to help "build" the wall. She tells him the Wall is made of blood. She tells him how the Wildlings were forced to one side of that Wall once it was completed, etc. Nan tells Bran that Wildlings consort with demons, sleep with Others to make babies-in Nan's stories, the Wildlings and The Others go hand in hand. OLD stories. Ygritte tells Jon that Craster bears a heavy curse and his blood is black-the Wildlings do not hate Craster like Jon does. They feel badly for him. Shit beyond the Wall has obviously changed since the time it went up. The Wildlings are more human now that they once were. But when THAT Wall went up, I bet you 20$ that almost ALL Dire wolves, colorful Lions, Unicorns-MOST magical creatures and humans that consorted with them were forced North of it. As of now, in text, The Others have no way through that Wall. They figured out how to get Whytes through the wall-but THEY themselves CANNOT pass the barrier, just like how Alasayne/Targs can pass thru the Wall, but their dragons cannot. Keep in mind that Coldhands cannot pass, either-at The wall or Bran's cave. That is important. And It IS a good question-DID The Others help create the wall? South of the Wall, we hear stories that are almost friendly regarding REAL Giants helping build the wall. The way it reads-it is likely that Others were magically enslaved and forced to help build the Wall, too. There are Giants inside that wall. THAT is what Ygritte is REALLY saying to Jon. The horn DOES wake Giants..and it DOES bring the wall down. I am not sure, but to me it reads like the Giants are kind of key here-it reads like maybe The Others might want to get thru the wall without bringing it down, if possible. I get the feeling that NOBODY wants the Giants to wake now, cuz the Giants are going to be PISSED at EVERYONE. Maybe not tho-maybe The Others are just looking for a good way thru because they have no Horn. It kinda feels like more, tho, doesn't it? North of the wall-those same stories about Giants are NOT friendly AT all. So there IS something there, to your/that question. But the tone from Ygritte, Nan, Leaf, Tormund...it all says to me that The Wildlings and The Others are WAY more closely/historically related than we have read about directly so far. But it IS there. For example...Waymar Royce. The Others break his sword when they kill him. THAT broken sword is brought to the Wall as an offering by one of the Wildlings when they all pass through the Wall. That broken sword-that ONE sentence that tells us it came back to the wall with some Wildling-it tells us that at least ONE Wildling IS working with The Others. Suuuuure, maaaaybe someone found it..but come on. The Others were checking his sword out-the implication there being that they took the broken sword with them. The Others gave someone that sword to use as something of value to offer The Watch for passage through. The Others ARE trying to find a way through-they are testing "loopholes". For example-getting Jeor {Lord Commander} to "invite" some whytes through the Wall by using Brothers of The Watch as "bait." THAT was a ruse. I could explain this better but it is A LOT lol. I'm just saying-the Wildlings know more than they are saying-at least a lot of them. And right NOW-at the wall-to me it reads that The Wildlings are trying to take The Wall. No matter how hard I try to make it fit-there is just NO way around Tormund's response to the Pink Letter, etc. Tormund KNEW something about THAT letter...and he struggled to warn Jon. THAT letter was from Mance. Either the code was messed with/rewritten...or, more likely, Tormund regrets it and wants to stop Jon from reacting to it. Tormund is trying to get Jon to STOP and THINK during THAT scene right before Jon gets shanked. By his own Brothers. THAT is ANOTHER tangent-but it is a part of this. Jon is the 2nd Lord Commander in a row to be murdered by his men-his Brothers. That is going to be IMPORTANT. Mel is at The wall and we know her shadows can pass thru ancient magical barriers/walls. THAT is IMPORTANT. Craster's rescued son, Baby Monster is at the wall-important! Gilly's "sister" tells Jon that Craster's Sons Are Coming. Important! Mance and the wildlings are NOT happy. They have lost EVERYTHING-have had EVERYTHING taken from them just for a chance to live. Fuuuuuuck thaaaaaat-we KNOW how much value life has once all meaning and value has been stripped away-thanks Mirri! And also real life. Me? I would be SEETHING with RAGE if i were a Wildling. Forced to burn my Gods and bow and do what I am told, when I am told just for the CHANCE to live the life that is ALREADY mine? The one I was already living? They just wanted to move, man. Live. Yeah. Shit is getting real at the Wall.
Strap on your tinfoil hats… Uncle Maz has a lot to cover! The Others are definitely one of the biggest mysteries in ASOIAF. You hit the nail on the head with a lot of stuff I was thinking each topic you brought up. They’re definitely sentient and intelligent. We know the most of them from the first chapter. They communicate amongst one another, are aware entire to recognize a threat, cultured enough to engage in one-on-one combat, and (depending who’s fan theories you read) finished off Waymar once they spotted blood, indicating he had flowing blood/ is not undead. Waymar had grey eyes, dark hair, and a slender face (Stark features along with Jon and Benjen. You could even take this theory a step further and consider the possibility he is a bastard son of Brandon from time in the Vale) If so many characters see visions and are driven by prophecy, it’s very likely The Others could be as well. There could be a vision/prophecy of an undead warrior to lead them (or destroy them) resembling a Stark they’re seeking out. I’d highly recommend Preston Jacob’s video series “Secrets of Craster’s Keep” He goes over who Craster is, why he does what he does and seems to be allowed by all parties to do so, and what he believes really happened with the Night’s King.
I think they're only taking Craster's sons because the majority of the others are women. My two ideas are that 1) they're a matriarchal society and sons are very much like daughters in Westeros, and they're using them to reproduce the Night's King Corpse Queen way. It would also be symbolic if the all male Nights Watch are going against the all female Others, who can be an analogue for Mother Nature. And when I say "all female," I mainly mean in the same sense as the Watch. An organisation of all female Others. 2) Going off the using the sons to reproduce, in this society, a war tends to deplete the number of men. Maybe the number of their men are so low that it's left them at an incestuous level of reproduction and they're trying to diversify their lines. Bit hard to support when the only one we see give their sons is an incestuous man himself, but it's only a theory not a fact. Plus, maybe that's why the Right of the first Night existed, to give the others bastards.
Craster gives sheep to The Others when he's fresh outta baby boys...soooo, are they food? Or are they some kind of go-between to the living so they can communicate with peeps? The sheep thing bothers me, man. THAT'S FOOOOOOD. Or pets at BEST. We make great pets!
I believe that the Others will be defeated at the end of the story, but they won't be destroyed. And perhaps in another 1000 years they may come again.
Waymar, dressed all in black, sees ‘pale shapes’ gliding through the wood and hears a soft wet plop and turns in a slow circle, suddenly wary, sword in hand. He stands at the foot of a ridge blanketed in freshly fallen snow, shimmering under the gentle glow of the moon. An all black circle on icy snow….the Yin in the Yang? A ‘white shadow’ in the dark of the wood…the Yang in the Yin? Did the shadow also make a circle? Yes to all those questions. Waymar, juxtaposed against the icy white snow, symbolizes the interplay of Yin and Yang. The figurative all-black circle he creates on the snowy landscape represents the Yang, the active and assertive energy. On the other hand, the "white shadow" in the dark woods embodies the Yin, the passive and mysterious energy. Together, they form a harmonious balance, each complementing and influencing the other. If Waymar and the ‘white shadow’ are the dots then is the 'icy snow' and the 'dark of the wood', seen as the black and white halves of the larger symbol as a whole? - In this particular scene, they can be likened to the two halves of the Yin and Yang symbol, which symbolize the shadow and moonlight (a reflection of sunlight) halves of a caldera. Interestingly, both the shadow and the moonlight are created by the light of the half moon. The shadow is formed by the far-side rim of an ancient caldera, while the moonlight illuminates the scene on the near side. The two halves swirl together in a teardrop shape and make up the crater of a sight important to the CotF. The time must be just right to achieve this symmetry of light and dark.
Do you ever think that maybe you’re actually pointing out plot holes. The problem with his “garden writing” is that he doesn’t have a solid direction for The Others. I think with how terrible the show was and the fact he has so many holes to fill with all this canon that he admits he doesn’t remember- The Others are too open ended and he didn’t know their origin or purpose, but he now feels obligated to flesh them out. I bet if you asked GRRM if the cold brings the Others or if The Others bring the cold he wouldn’t actually know- and that’s why TWOW will never be released. He didn’t plan his story out and has no way to finish it.
It could definitely be possible, but i think the opposite could be true they are so vague and uncertain he could go really go anyway he wants with them
I didnt like that you assumed the nights king was a stark since thats technically a matter of speculation. I really didn't like how conflated the others and the wights in the video. However, in all the time I've read ASOIAF and listened to others. opinions of the books, have never once heard someone mention the possibility that Benjen was a prisoner of the others. I am by no means the authority on deciding if that's an original theory, but I've lived and breathed ASOIAF for some time now and I genuinely don't think I've heard that thought by anyone else. And it would explain so much, especially if your assumption that the nights king is a Stark is true (which of course is what old Nan says). Maybe I'm wrong and the theory is already out there but it's miraculous that that theory wouldn't be more popular. Most people just thought that coldhands was benjen and when it was conclusively proved he wasn't everyone just chalked benjen up to dead. But this makes more sense I'd say, especially in the long run for the others and tying the story together.
I will say that is not my theory and I also thought that was confirmed he was a stark thank you for letting me know! Also, I am not sure where the theory origninated from but I know when I was doing my research for a Benjen video I did in the past I believe In Deep Geek mentioned it briefly and I saw a post about it on reddit I kind of expanded it a bit more
@TheGreaseGoblins hmmm I've watched most of in deep geeks stuff, it could be that he briefly considered it and the video was so long ago I've forgotten that he did. But I really do think that the theory holds water.
I just looked up in deep geeks video on Benjen and he considers that benjen could be alive, but heading into the lands of always winter voluntarily, not as a prisoner. So he didn't consider that either. That leaves whatever you read of reddit. There was a comment on in deep geeks video that considers that he might have been captured though, so maybe that's where you read it. Either way it's a fascinating theory.
Jon, the prince of ice and fire that was promised to them should he ever be born. To continue the Night king line of succession
The thirteenth Lord Commander wasn’t necessarily a Stark. The only possible way that will be confirmed is through a Bran chapter.
Maybe they want all the land north of the wall free of humans? The wall seems more magically connected to the others ice magic than the children’s nature magic maybe a similar pact was formed between the humans - others akin to the humans - children pact. They very clearly aren’t mindless in the books given they have there own language + metalworking skills
Mountain Dew Glacier blast. Or maybe they have it and they’re looking for Baja Blast in Dorne.
Pretty sure they want the winds of Winter too.
There is a couple of different symbolism for the others.
1. First the story of ice and fire is the story of ragnorak. With the golden boy who must give his life to end the gods and bring the world to a new age
2. The conformity of war and what it does to a people.
That we lose our humanity in war.
That the world is in danger of losing our history
The first men vs the modern world
Of course the long night is fimbul winter
so....who is Sigrid here?
I would somewhat appreciate GRRM for just making the Others into anti-humans whose nature is to hate life and warmth. That's what they appear to be and I must say that the concept is interesting as is. Not everything needs to be super complex.
Too generic!
Exactly, Morgoths motive was simply to destroy all life and yet all the events of the first age sprawled from this being and his simple motive, yet some of the greatest fantasy stories ever told came from it.
@@nkundisebina7893the motivation can be generic, what really matters is what they do to achieve it, the effect on the story, characters and plot is far more interesting than the motive alone. Some of the worst stories ever have characters with interesting motives and some of the best stories ever have characters with simple and "generic" motives.
They are not zombies. They are more like the Sidhe. The babies might be like changelings from old folk tales...hm, they are not returning any of theirs, though. If they have them.
Craster is a UNIQUE character-not just because he gives his sons over to The Others. Why the focus on Craster? Who The ef is he that The Others want HIS boys? Look at Varymyr-that asshole would GLADLY give ALL of his children, let alone the sons, in order to survive Craster Style. AND his kids have the potential to be powerful wargs-there is no question THERE as to why The Others SHOULD want Varymyr's sons as well as Craster's. So the Craster deal IS rare-it is ONLY about Craster and HIS blood. MY guess is that he is related to the Night's King from The Wall. And it is also "known" by the Wildlings; Craster's "deal" and WHY he gives his sons over. Ygritte tells Jon how Mance invited him to head South with them. THAT does NOT happen unless Mance and the Wildlings feel something other than disgust and hatred for Craster. It also means that it also makes it likely that Mance IS helping Wildlings that were working with Others. The Wildlings-that Wall WAS made for them, too. Ygritte tells Jon that the Giants were magically enslaved and forced to help "build" the wall. She tells him the Wall is made of blood. She tells him how the Wildlings were forced to one side of that Wall once it was completed, etc. Nan tells Bran that Wildlings consort with demons, sleep with Others to make babies-in Nan's stories, the Wildlings and The Others go hand in hand. OLD stories. Ygritte tells Jon that Craster bears a heavy curse and his blood is black-the Wildlings do not hate Craster like Jon does. They feel badly for him. Shit beyond the Wall has obviously changed since the time it went up. The Wildlings are more human now that they once were. But when THAT Wall went up, I bet you 20$ that almost ALL Dire wolves, colorful Lions, Unicorns-MOST magical creatures and humans that consorted with them were forced North of it. As of now, in text, The Others have no way through that Wall. They figured out how to get Whytes through the wall-but THEY themselves CANNOT pass the barrier, just like how Alasayne/Targs can pass thru the Wall, but their dragons cannot. Keep in mind that Coldhands cannot pass, either-at The wall or Bran's cave. That is important. And It IS a good question-DID The Others help create the wall? South of the Wall, we hear stories that are almost friendly regarding REAL Giants helping build the wall. The way it reads-it is likely that Others were magically enslaved and forced to help build the Wall, too. There are Giants inside that wall. THAT is what Ygritte is REALLY saying to Jon. The horn DOES wake Giants..and it DOES bring the wall down. I am not sure, but to me it reads like the Giants are kind of key here-it reads like maybe The Others might want to get thru the wall without bringing it down, if possible. I get the feeling that NOBODY wants the Giants to wake now, cuz the Giants are going to be PISSED at EVERYONE. Maybe not tho-maybe The Others are just looking for a good way thru because they have no Horn. It kinda feels like more, tho, doesn't it? North of the wall-those same stories about Giants are NOT friendly AT all. So there IS something there, to your/that question. But the tone from Ygritte, Nan, Leaf, Tormund...it all says to me that The Wildlings and The Others are WAY more closely/historically related than we have read about directly so far. But it IS there. For example...Waymar Royce. The Others break his sword when they kill him. THAT broken sword is brought to the Wall as an offering by one of the Wildlings when they all pass through the Wall. That broken sword-that ONE sentence that tells us it came back to the wall with some Wildling-it tells us that at least ONE Wildling IS working with The Others. Suuuuure, maaaaybe someone found it..but come on. The Others were checking his sword out-the implication there being that they took the broken sword with them. The Others gave someone that sword to use as something of value to offer The Watch for passage through. The Others ARE trying to find a way through-they are testing "loopholes". For example-getting Jeor {Lord Commander} to "invite" some whytes through the Wall by using Brothers of The Watch as "bait." THAT was a ruse. I could explain this better but it is A LOT lol. I'm just saying-the Wildlings know more than they are saying-at least a lot of them. And right NOW-at the wall-to me it reads that The Wildlings are trying to take The Wall. No matter how hard I try to make it fit-there is just NO way around Tormund's response to the Pink Letter, etc. Tormund KNEW something about THAT letter...and he struggled to warn Jon. THAT letter was from Mance. Either the code was messed with/rewritten...or, more likely, Tormund regrets it and wants to stop Jon from reacting to it. Tormund is trying to get Jon to STOP and THINK during THAT scene right before Jon gets shanked. By his own Brothers. THAT is ANOTHER tangent-but it is a part of this. Jon is the 2nd Lord Commander in a row to be murdered by his men-his Brothers. That is going to be IMPORTANT. Mel is at The wall and we know her shadows can pass thru ancient magical barriers/walls. THAT is IMPORTANT. Craster's rescued son, Baby Monster is at the wall-important! Gilly's "sister" tells Jon that Craster's Sons Are Coming. Important! Mance and the wildlings are NOT happy. They have lost EVERYTHING-have had EVERYTHING taken from them just for a chance to live. Fuuuuuuck thaaaaaat-we KNOW how much value life has once all meaning and value has been stripped away-thanks Mirri! And also real life. Me? I would be SEETHING with RAGE if i were a Wildling. Forced to burn my Gods and bow and do what I am told, when I am told just for the CHANCE to live the life that is ALREADY mine? The one I was already living? They just wanted to move, man. Live. Yeah. Shit is getting real at the Wall.
Loving the videos as always man I hope things are well for you 🙏
Thanks! You too!
Whatever they King Daemon Blackfyre could've taken them with Blackfyre Sword of Kings🗡
Strap on your tinfoil hats… Uncle Maz has a lot to cover!
The Others are definitely one of the biggest mysteries in ASOIAF. You hit the nail on the head with a lot of stuff I was thinking each topic you brought up. They’re definitely sentient and intelligent. We know the most of them from the first chapter. They communicate amongst one another, are aware entire to recognize a threat, cultured enough to engage in one-on-one combat, and (depending who’s fan theories you read) finished off Waymar once they spotted blood, indicating he had flowing blood/ is not undead. Waymar had grey eyes, dark hair, and a slender face (Stark features along with Jon and Benjen. You could even take this theory a step further and consider the possibility he is a bastard son of Brandon from time in the Vale) If so many characters see visions and are driven by prophecy, it’s very likely The Others could be as well. There could be a vision/prophecy of an undead warrior to lead them (or destroy them) resembling a Stark they’re seeking out.
I’d highly recommend Preston Jacob’s video series “Secrets of Craster’s Keep” He goes over who Craster is, why he does what he does and seems to be allowed by all parties to do so, and what he believes really happened with the Night’s King.
I think they're only taking Craster's sons because the majority of the others are women. My two ideas are that 1) they're a matriarchal society and sons are very much like daughters in Westeros, and they're using them to reproduce the Night's King Corpse Queen way. It would also be symbolic if the all male Nights Watch are going against the all female Others, who can be an analogue for Mother Nature. And when I say "all female," I mainly mean in the same sense as the Watch. An organisation of all female Others.
2) Going off the using the sons to reproduce, in this society, a war tends to deplete the number of men. Maybe the number of their men are so low that it's left them at an incestuous level of reproduction and they're trying to diversify their lines. Bit hard to support when the only one we see give their sons is an incestuous man himself, but it's only a theory not a fact. Plus, maybe that's why the Right of the first Night existed, to give the others bastards.
Craster gives sheep to The Others when he's fresh outta baby boys...soooo, are they food? Or are they some kind of go-between to the living so they can communicate with peeps? The sheep thing bothers me, man. THAT'S FOOOOOOD. Or pets at BEST. We make great pets!
I believe that the Others will be defeated at the end of the story, but they won't be destroyed. And perhaps in another 1000 years they may come again.
Waymar, dressed all in black, sees ‘pale shapes’ gliding through the wood and hears a soft wet plop and turns in a slow circle, suddenly wary, sword in hand. He stands at the foot of a ridge blanketed in freshly fallen snow, shimmering under the gentle glow of the moon.
An all black circle on icy snow….the Yin in the Yang?
A ‘white shadow’ in the dark of the wood…the Yang in the Yin? Did the shadow also make a circle?
Yes to all those questions.
Waymar, juxtaposed against the icy white snow, symbolizes the interplay of Yin and Yang. The figurative all-black circle he creates on the snowy landscape represents the Yang, the active and assertive energy. On the other hand, the "white shadow" in the dark woods embodies the Yin, the passive and mysterious energy. Together, they form a harmonious balance, each complementing and influencing the other.
If Waymar and the ‘white shadow’ are the dots then is the 'icy snow' and the 'dark of the wood', seen as the black and white halves of the larger symbol as a whole? - In this particular scene, they can be likened to the two halves of the Yin and Yang symbol, which symbolize the shadow and moonlight (a reflection of sunlight) halves of a caldera. Interestingly, both the shadow and the moonlight are created by the light of the half moon. The shadow is formed by the far-side rim of an ancient caldera, while the moonlight illuminates the scene on the near side. The two halves swirl together in a teardrop shape and make up the crater of a sight important to the CotF. The time must be just right to achieve this symmetry of light and dark.
Do you ever think that maybe you’re actually pointing out plot holes. The problem with his “garden writing” is that he doesn’t have a solid direction for The Others.
I think with how terrible the show was and the fact he has so many holes to fill with all this canon that he admits he doesn’t remember- The Others are too open ended and he didn’t know their origin or purpose, but he now feels obligated to flesh them out.
I bet if you asked GRRM if the cold brings the Others or if The Others bring the cold he wouldn’t actually know- and that’s why TWOW will never be released. He didn’t plan his story out and has no way to finish it.
It could definitely be possible, but i think the opposite could be true they are so vague and uncertain he could go really go anyway he wants with them
That the book is brought out.... o wait thats what i want XD
If the Others eat that means they shit too
I didnt like that you assumed the nights king was a stark since thats technically a matter of speculation. I really didn't like how conflated the others and the wights in the video. However, in all the time I've read ASOIAF and listened to others. opinions of the books, have never once heard someone mention the possibility that Benjen was a prisoner of the others. I am by no means the authority on deciding if that's an original theory, but I've lived and breathed ASOIAF for some time now and I genuinely don't think I've heard that thought by anyone else. And it would explain so much, especially if your assumption that the nights king is a Stark is true (which of course is what old Nan says). Maybe I'm wrong and the theory is already out there but it's miraculous that that theory wouldn't be more popular. Most people just thought that coldhands was benjen and when it was conclusively proved he wasn't everyone just chalked benjen up to dead. But this makes more sense I'd say, especially in the long run for the others and tying the story together.
I will say that is not my theory and I also thought that was confirmed he was a stark thank you for letting me know! Also, I am not sure where the theory origninated from but I know when I was doing my research for a Benjen video I did in the past I believe In Deep Geek mentioned it briefly and I saw a post about it on reddit I kind of expanded it a bit more
@TheGreaseGoblins hmmm I've watched most of in deep geeks stuff, it could be that he briefly considered it and the video was so long ago I've forgotten that he did. But I really do think that the theory holds water.
I just looked up in deep geeks video on Benjen and he considers that benjen could be alive, but heading into the lands of always winter voluntarily, not as a prisoner. So he didn't consider that either. That leaves whatever you read of reddit. There was a comment on in deep geeks video that considers that he might have been captured though, so maybe that's where you read it. Either way it's a fascinating theory.