Slip Angle in Touge - Master this to be a faster Sim Racer
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024
- ▶Join the community: / discord
▶Follow me on Twitter: / simracingbloke
▶Become a member: / @tsrb
This is slip angle. An advanced driving technique that blends grip and drift. It was used by Takumi in the show Initial D, and ever since then this technique has almost had an air of mystery surrounding it. I've received tens of comments telling me to look into slip angle in more depth since I made my grip vs drift video so here we are. Ask and thout shall receive guys. So, make sure you keep watching until the end if you want to become a driving god.
So, what is slip angle? Slip angle is a measurement of how much the tire's contact patch has twisted (steered) in relation to the wheel. A good way to demonstrate this characteristic is to stand beside your car and turn the
steering wheel. If you watch the one of the front wheels, you will see that it steers a few degrees before the tire's contact patch starts to turn. This characteristics is important in racing, because as long as the tires have traction, the car tries to go where the tires are pointed. So, even though the wheels may not be steering, the tires can be steering due to the slip angle
For instance, if we take a look at this example, we can see that the vehicle is seemingly oversteering through the curve. It is following the inner radius of the corner closely. Now, because slip angle is in effect, and the tyres are steering without wheel much input, we can follow the inner radius of the corner all the way around. If we weren't using slip angle to take this
corner, we wouldn't be able to follow the inner radius all the way round, thus we will be slower.
If we take a look at a car utilising slip angle in slow motion, we can see that the front tyres are directly on the inner radius of the corner, but the rear tyres are about a foot away from said radius. This is the easiest way to spot slip angle. If the rear tyres are farther away from the inside of the corner than the fronts, that is slip angle. If you go back and watch your fastest
lap times or touge runs, I can almost guarantee that at least some slip angle was used.
Now this may be very counter intuitive to most sim racers, as sliding is usually slower and degrades the tyres massively. But to get around the corner as fast as possible, you actually have to engage a slight bit of oversteer. We can see this done in the top flight of motorsport, Formula 1 at every single corner, by every single driver. It's almost like drifting, however it is very subtle, faster, and less stylish. Whereas drifting is all about breaking traction, slip angle is produced on the very limit, as this is where the tyres are at their grippiest. Newer drivers may have been taught that sliding is bad, and that is why slip angle is so counter intuitive. But, sliding slightly is much faster than cornering well within the limits of the tyres.
So the easiest way to start using slip angle and become a faster driver is to really visualise what is happening with the car as you drive. Those with natural talent may already do this, but for others this may be harder. You need to visualise what the tyres are doing as you turn, throttle and brake. As you approach a corner under throttle, all four tyres are equally distributing the weight to the tarmac. Everything is perfectly balanced. However, once you let off the throttle and brake, the weight of the car will shift to the front tyres. This means that your rear tyres are lifted off the ground slightly and they have much less contact with the tarmac than they usually would have. Thus, the front tyres have more grip, and the rears have a lot less than usual.
As you turn in, still off the throttle and the weight of the car on the front tyres, you will find the front of the car wants to grip more than the rear. And naturally, the rear will want to slide and enter the state of slip angle, thus giving the car the ability to rotate faster that it could if all four tyres were gripping equally. As you proceed through the corner, you will soon need to hit the throttle again. If you throttle too aggressively, you risk the weight being pulled to the rear tyres, and you will enter understeer and wash out of the corner. So, you need to feather the throttle and find the right amount for the car you are using. The hardest part here is of course, not overdoing it and entering an actual drift or even spinning out.
MY SIM RIG:
▶Fanatec Wheelbase Base bit.ly/39DUduk
▶Fanatec CSL Elite Wheel bit.ly/3lVZdQQ
▶Fanatec Shifter bit.ly/2WcVs0t
▶Fanatec CSL Elite Loadcell Pedals bit.ly/3AJNWZQ
▶Fanatec Handbrake bit.ly/39DUduk
▶Playseat Challenge amzn.to/3CL5Snv
▶ Gloves amzn.to/3ua0PtG
▶Monitor amzn.to/3ERjNKQ
▶Oculus amzn.to/3kEc0Yr
▶GTX 1080 amzn.to/3CPbcGm
▶i5 8600k amzn.to/3i8x2gb
▶16GB DDR4 amzn.to/3ujkozV
Want more Touge Tips? Check out my series 'How To Touge'
ruclips.net/p/PLrQwFcU5ZJuDi7vMLcVGLOGBaAtYV4GDe
I wanted to learn Slip Angle but learned Slip Angow instead. Thanks bro I did it while watching the vid.
@@John-X huh and you cant learn slip angle it will come to you
which map is this ?
@@extremedope5877
Tsukuba Fruits Line
I find this more stylish than drifting, it looks so smooth and calculated, especially when executed in a hotlap
same
For me it looks like drifting.... like the exact same, just the right way not to much.
Yes, doing slip angle damn close to a barrier feels way better than just drifting
Agreed. But this technique will eat up tires super quickly/ make them super greasy if you're not running racing slicks. Had summer street tires on my miata. Tire were useless after two laps of me trying this...but I'm poor. If you're one of the guys that can switch out tires during a track day, then go for it, 😄🤣
Hitting the apex while holding a tight slip angle will always be cooler than big-angle wide-line tandems.
Nailing a slip angle with little to no counter steer is the greatest feeling ever.
Oh, it's like gliding on ice with the rev of the engine, it's driving eutopia
@@rilesmiles4564 The pinnacle driving euphoria
Facts
@@rilesmiles4564 full lock smacking off limiter is so much fun though
wouldnt that just be a form of 4 wheel drifting though?
So Takumi also does this but with more angle and understeer while keeping countersteer at minimun or at 0 depending on the corner (4 wheel drift), god hand in the other hand (lol) does steers normally but with only one hand so it keeps the *steering* at minimun (never countersteers) while takumi does *countersteers* but at minimun (drifting as fast as humanly possible).
In other words, both Takumi and god hand do slip angle but god hand does it better and more in a "grip" way while Takumi does it on a "fast drift aka 4wheel drift" way.
So god hand technique is slip angle but mastered to the perfection, that's why he is indeed faster than Takumi on the corners when going at the limit (his car is also better than the 86).
Takumi drifts and God Arm slips basically, but they both four wheel drifts in their own right
@@fujineetomori facts different approach but similar result more or less
Mastery of slip angle could also explain why "god hand" can just change his lines while keeping consistency. Slip angle seems to really help with finding more grip across more of the width of the course, so at that point you'd just need to keep a little mental time delta going from corner to corner, which isn't a big deal for most racing drivers.
Mans spittin facts
@@brieee28 most find it best not to think much about angles and stuff and just build up intuitive sense until they can nail down balance between wheelspin and acceleration since you're letting the car ride naturally than forcing it
I remember when takumi explain drifting like its an understeer, i cant imagine his geniuses on explaining that, at that moment.
You can actually drift faster if the car is set up to understeer. You literally have to drive faster in order to get the same effect when the car is looser...
3:36 That's not called slip angle steering, it's throttle steering. 🤣 ... Slip angle has effect on the front tires only due to the lateral force affects, reshapes them, aiding given car's rotation, it's not the drifting REAR tires! ... You guys got the meaning of slip angle so wrong. 🤣
@hirzaahmadmutahari6987 Indeed, the understeer he calls drifting is actually the four wheel drift and not the sport of drifting. It's a bunch of uncultured kids trying to piece it all together themselves and Takumi's genius shines through because he does not see sliding out just the rear as something difficult or hard to learn. He is a very impatient boy and when he comes into a corner too hot (again) and the back steps out, he understeers the front to tighten his line and avoid the barriers. Being as impatient as he is, he prefers to get back on the gas right away and just balance it out through the rest of the corner. That's how he learned the four wheel drift in my head canon. Later on he learned to aim it better and set it up beforehand to actually apex the corner this way. He was just thrashing on his dads ride just enough so he wouldn't get in trouble. Never making a scratch but the tires were fair game pretty much. Not noticing in his naiveness this is exactly what his dad wanted to happen all along. Remember how much shit Takumi got when the 86 got scratched up? And when his dad moved the goalposts with the cup of water?
@@ThaJay Even the gas station owner Yuichi is like "Those kids are idiots, Takumi is actually describing drifting. Bunta's got him doing some crazy shit."
Another point to this is how when takumi faced shingo (red civic driver) he mentions in astonishment to how instead of sliding and making turns by using steering takumi instead used the cars weight shifting along with very minimal inputs to induce the slide and not needing absurd countersteer ( as he learned before he smacked a barracade)
Know I know why my fastest laps are always not the most "perfect" laps. I always thought I had the perfect lap without slip but the results always come under, I guess I've just been using the slip angle unconsciously when pushing hard
Well, this is actually known since Fanghio. The next step from this for such a low-downforce car as AE86 would be 4-wheel sliding technique, like those F1 cars in 60s, before aerodynamics.
Didn't know about this one! Neat.
@john jones Hey . . . do F1 racers perform slip angle technique today, to get through corners fast ??
@john jones 👌
@john jones Can a midship car like Lotus Emira perform good skid like that on Touge? . . . It's a stunningly beautiful car I might buy it when produced, the manufacture has not announced the fact about its front and rear weight ratio yet, I'm worried it might be the same as that of Lotus Evora, 32/68 (F/R ). However, I will mainly drive it on circuit and use it to practice the technique on circuit as well.
@@JohnKickboxing Lotus has a short wheel base you can drift it but it wont look as cool.
With enough time and practice, you can drift and smoke just like Bunta himself
I remember discovering this naturally in FM6 in my Mazda Cosmo '72, each time I hit a guardrail or went off the track, I would rewind to see if and how I could prevent it, and I found that slip-angle was the fastest way around. Thanks to this, and all the hours I put into rivals races, I managed to score in the top 1000 (in the U.S.) on the D-Class - Nurburgring - Full Circuit - Day rivals challenge. Let me just say that again, that's 2 laps (1 still lap, 1 flying lap) and over 20 minutes of intense racing where you can't rewind, crash, or even go off the track, and it likely wouldn't have been possible without this technique. I later returned to Forza Horizon 4, and found that my driving skills had drastically improved. I'm not saying this video was the sole reason that I became so good at sim-racing, but I'm sure glad you're teaching this skill to others!
"Pick one car and stick to it."
It's like what Bunta said, "The Eight-Sox trains the driver."
my favorite car Eight-SOX
Ah yes *eight sox*
I agree using the eight-sox is really good
He stuck to his typo
Eight-Sox vs S14 Zankee
It is more about preserving momentum instead of accelerating through, into or out the corner Especially in a low horsepower car like the 86 at a higher speed you would also be able to keep the rpms high keeping the car on its ideal power band on corner exit.
Damn who knew an anime with some guys racing dowh the mountain could have such advanced physics behind it
RPM means jack shit. It's all about exit speed. Drifting only makes you slower.
@@StuninRub Well in the video its more about powersliding than anything else, which is useful in some kinds of corners, and high RPM does matter if you wanna keep your car from getting too much grip back and snap understeering
@@mahuba2553 Imagine not wanting your car to have too much grip. I bet your car has a big ass wing for downforce and FWD as well.
What you saw in Initial D does not ring true for real racing. You always want more grip and the only thing that matters when cornering and going fast is the exit speed.
@@StuninRub And what IF I had an FWD with a big wing? Even those can oversteer, and you know that cornering aint just about staying in line and hoping nobody goes through the inside, there is way more than just that
Up until now, I'd only been able to get decent slip angle with cars with really soft tires because they're easier to load up, and this helped me a lot to learn it with other cars.
Much easier in a fwd car, local downhill mountain run you let off and use off throttle oversteer to slide it around the corner
Oh man now im either getting faster or people get more faster than me 😂
Anyways can't wait to watch it
Me who does this in games since like ever and now watches this: Oooh that makes sense now. Always wondered why ppl who fully grip a corner couldn't get around a corner as fast.
Well then you are me in game
Yeah this explains so much ngl... I always find myself turning TCS really low or off entirely just the get that minor "oversteer" I called it, but I never actually had to countersteer either... I just referred to as the other name of "powersliding" but this explains why it's actually faster, and not just how I race comfortably
Me who does it in real life: Aa, I thought my car was just faster than others
@@takumifujiwara3223 Yea i guess... Funny enaugh i started doing it with an AE86 when i was little.
@@X-Caliber02 Yea i also always turn it off because it hinders me from doing this driving style.
sheesh I have been doing this. I would like to note doing this sort of thing with an understeery car will balance the front and the rear more evenly. Resulting in faster cornering speeds.
I did this once by accident in Assetto with the AE86. Didn't even have to countersteer except when I exited the corner. Felt like absolute bliss.
I always wondered what this was called. It's always been a part of my driving style in games, and I relied on this mostly in Forza Motorsport (Not Horizon). Won me tons of races in those years, I'm glad I have a name for the technique now.
Back when I was younger and raced with karts at Rotax 125cc, I was struggling on the budget and most of the time had to use worm out tires, like the tires normal people would throw away with 50 percent life left. Because of the less grip those tires had, I unconsciously developed a slip angle driving on most of the turns of the tracks I used to race. I realized that the more straigh the steering was, more throttle I could apply, hence taking the turns faster even if I was techinically loosing my rear end.
Later I started jumping over the curbs, since in my local tracks they were huge, so by invading them with the interior wheels I could cut some cms in each turn, making a quite a decent chunk of .000's at the end of each lap.
So mixing the slip angle and the curb jumping, I would "drift" the turns and balacing the kart on three wheels, making the front inner go over the curb, all the way until said curb would grind against the chassis. With my little 125cc I was destroying the DD2 class.
Sometimes I dream what would happend if I had the money to actually race on a championship or something... Guess life is not that fair. At least I use everything I learnt from my karting days into cars.
This helps prove my theory, i'm going to write a paper and do you mind if I include this story, I'm trying to prove that having limited conditions make drivers faster, shinji couldn't wake his mom, takumi couldn't spill tje water, and you had to use bad tires but were better than most.
One of the greatest explanations of this driving technique I've seen! And I've seen a lot.
I'm pretty confident I'm going to get much more consistent at my pace, using this technique more conscious.
Like you said: Like everything in life it's all about balance.
You've got one subscriber more right now, mate😊👍
Like my teacher at automotive enigeering used to say: A few degrees of slip provides the most grip.
It has to do with the friction properties of the tyre rubber.
Thanks for explaining this dude, Time to go and practice
this video really is helpfull for me because I oversteer to much because I am used to drifting instead of trying to grip so to see what the balance between the 2 is is really helpfull
Happy to help :)
Thank you for the video!! Been waiting for it, amazing explanation as usual
Thanks, glad you liked it :)
There’s a very fine line between true slip angle and drifting. He does a good job of showing it in more of an exaggerated manner here, but true slip angle doesn’t use any countersteering at all. If you’re on the ragged edge, you may have to in order to catch the car, because there’s almost no way to consistently do it 100% of the time. The 86 shown here is going to have a much larger margin of slip compared to, say, a Formula 1 car, but I think this is a brilliant way to dissect it. good video my mans!
There's a pretty clear line since they have nothing to do with each other. Slip angle is a measure of the tyres property while drifting is a technique.
To those attempting this. Setup is also very important
I use an Xbox one controller and it seems to work pretty well
Though I haven’t played AC on pc for touge, I’ve been on GT for the most part and your explanation is spot on - in addition to sticking with one car to understand the balance dynamic. I learned this technique from analyzing how F1 drivers are able to be so quick and nimble - extremely precise at that.
I had experienced it and now I understand why I'm faster on certain tracks thanks to you
I’ve been following this channel over the last few days and I’m loving the tutorials. Turns out I’ve often been doing this without realising it
I always knew I was driving slightly faster than other players/drivers, but it was a swing and a miss on some corners, but with this explanation of how it works, it connected the dots really quickly I never knew what it was call until now, I hope none of my friends see this video, it would be so competitive that it would get toxic.
actually, Takumi was using a different technique called four-wheel drift, it was actually Toshiya "God Hand' Joshima that used a technique that utilized slip angle which was his one-handed steering technique
He didn't actually use 4wd since his car is a rwd but he is skilled enough that he can make his car drift like a 4wd car
@@CardiacYew-xt5zq no one said anything about takumi using a 4wd😭
Basically, Takumi was using too much angle, but God hand was the first one to have the perfect slip angle
@@toonbyte6110 miss interpreted it my bad
Takumi learned about slip angle during his gum tape death match. He realized that by using less steering input, he could get the car to rotate better and go around corners faster.
Awesome explanation! During my track days I always struggled to describe what was happening I always referred to it as “rotating on top of the tires” it’s so cool to finally know what it’s actually called. Love your videos, keep up the good work!
I think a lot of other drivers will refer to it as rotation. For example, my 1990 integra, though fwd, have a pretty neutral handling characteristic and has a good level of rotation around tighter corners. You can get the rear to naturally step out around tight turns if you drive it right.
@@kasuraga yup it’s called rotation that is the scientific term. Racing is an art form but it’s also a science.
@@cecilracing53 ruclips.net/video/bDW9NSjbgOU/видео.html any time someone wants to see an example of fwd rotation/drifting i show them this. this thing was so far on the edge of what the tires were going to let him get away with but you can see he's still kept a LOT of forward momentum which means his front tires were still digging hard and not slipping
@@kasuraga yeah FWD to be fast they need a lot of rotation breaking hard and early rotation so they can be on throttle as early as possible it’s enjoyable when you drive a purpose built FWD car.
@@cecilracing53 Yeah, when you have a fwd car set up properly they're a blast. Almost point and mash the throttle if the front tires have the traction. It does make it a bit funky going back to a rwd car after hooning a good rotating fwd car haha
Thank you man! Really helps. I really needed this to try improving my driving tecnique in Roblox Midnight Racing: Tokyo.
I do this quite often when I'm hooning around in my car, just as I'm entering the apex of a turn I'll tap the brake to shift the weight forward so the back end swings around the outside of the turn and was called trail braking, this technique is used in rally driving.
My car is front wheel drive that's why I drive like this because it gives the front wheels more grip when cornering
Pain
Damn this gives me chills, thank you!
THANK YOU! BEEN LOOKING FOR EXPLANATION OF HOW TAKUMI'S DRIFT WORK.
I learned this along time ago on gran turismo 5, thanks for explaining it!
I always called it grip-drifting because it was exactly that.
Slip angle on Gran Turismo is really vague as all their games come off as arcade including GTSport. The cars are already dialed in with too much grip.
@@kak8895 gran Turismo 5 - 6 have the most realistic physics, sport went back to gran Turismo 4 ish physics for some reason
@@5tripedTailz None of the Gran Turismo games have realistic physics. And I mean absolutely none
@@kak8895 gues its just me and my comfort medium tires.
@@kak8895 Why are Simrace Fans even crazier then Flight Simmers when it comes to realism. Yes Gran TUrismo has realistic physics maybe not as close to Assetto Corso but stil that alone doesnt make a game completly unrealistic.
Can you at least explain what you mean? What makes assetto more realistic beside that in Gran Turismo if you play on controller the controller will automaitlcy stop you from oversteering the wheels.
This video really taught me how to corner better. I could never do a slip angle because of my skill issue but because of this video i tried pushing myself into it more, by doing a tiny flick in the other direction before pushing brake, and accelerating into a turn and what do you know, it works pretty well!
I'd like to note: Slip angle usually wears out the rear tires faster than otherwise. That sounds bad, but it actually helps wear all tires evenly, since you'd normally just wear out the fronts a lot.
one of the best simple explanations of learning track driving I have seen!
Driving the Maserati 250f in assetto corsa was what helped me learn and understand this. Great car if you want a challenge :)
is this the same as 4wd drift?
pretty much.
nope, a 4 wheel drift is when all 4 tires are sliding, with slipangle you are pretty much doing a no counter steer drift with very low angle
its not a 4 wheel drift but you can implement a 4 wheel drift with slip angle, it is also easier to do slip angle with lower pressure tires
pretty much same, but with steering angle towards inside corner when exit, to prevent understeer, because the limitation of torque distribution between front and rear
@@kuilios
Give it a try with pressure close to max tyre pressure (not the car recommended, the one close and over 40psi/3bar). Not suitable for cars in bad overall condition and there's greater stress on chassis/shell. Also check pressure multiple times per day on hot days, you don't want them to explode. H rated tyres survived going +200kph on Irish mountain roads with air temps around 30°C. Currently on one of the cars I have a set of MS tyres for the 5th or the 6th year (all year round), 215/50/16 MSs and gone over 35k kms, still good on the snow but deflated to 2.0 / 2.4bar, on summer they're always on 3.1bar, this year temps are around 32-39°C daytime and 26-29°C night. I tried running 14'' @ 50psi (44 or 43 rated) and only had smaller issues while offroading and in rain (but then you can actually utilise slip angle much easier, with a sacrifice of stoping in time ofc). I don't recommend speeding and dangerous driving on public roads and I definetely don't want anyone hurt or cars damaged so mind what and where are you doing stuff behind your wheel. Good luck, have fun and safe travels
Edit: high tyre pressure is not intended for longer burnouts/drifts, you want to keep the tyres cold for as long as possible to keep tyre ware on minimal and the car sliding "a bit".
Volvo's "yaw control" is a great tool for that (P1 platform, haven't tested it with gen1 S40/V40 yet, P2 V70 is kind of weird and P2 S80 had brilliant yaw control, felt like living room turbo brick flying over the road). Gen2 Hyundai Accent and VW Golf mk3 are also good for sliping if you're careful with accelerator and AR Giulietta typo 116 and MB W114/115 were also fun for learning.
god that footage is satisfying.
Thank you for satisfying us with this replay footage.
Doing this action in gta is godmode, and it can be really beneficial especially in high grip vehicles that already can turn fast but suffer when taking a little bit of lift
How come this technique is rarely discussed in most racing guides for typical track racing like GT3? Is this something more applicable on downhill only or does it apply on everything? Im guessing the reason why its not discussed as much is because it wears down the tyre too much that its only worth it on short races like touge and qualifying races.
Btw, you earned my sub. Im gonna try applying this technique on iRacing mx-5 races.
Thanks! Well typically slip angle is a result of already driving fast. So as long as you're already fast and are driving correctly you should be utilising slip angle. I can't remember if I mentioned that in the video, but I think I did. There was a entire segment of the video explaining this but I cut most of it out.
@@TSRB I did more research on this one and apparently slip angle is what we are trying to achieve when we trail brake to turn into a corner. Knowing this concept made me more consistent in hitting apexes.
@@dominicalfafara3375 Not really. When you trail brake you try to maximize slip ratio vs slip angle. Slip ratio is like slip angle, but for longitudinal direction. You can't have both at maximum. When you are maxed out at braking, you can't turn. As you release brakes slowly, you can gradually increase the steering (introduce slip angle). Then same goes for exiting the turn, you can gradually increase throttle while straightening out the car. GT3 cars won't like that much of oversteer yaw angle, because two reasons: their high performance tires operate at lower peak slip angles, and another reason is aero stalling with certain yaw angle - you basically loose downforce when you oversteer with car like GT3. And yeah, surely sliding also wears tires down very much, much more than they are in static friction position in relation to the surface.
thats because to anyone who isnt an initial d fanboy and has some experience in racing its called "rotation", and in most cars its not something youre supposed to force, with some exceptions, like low grip, low downforce road cars, karts or skip barber cars. Thats why its not a technique, or something you should learn, its just something you need to understand is a side effect of driving fast, and that you shoudlnt always avoid it.
@@superspeeder9184 pretty much this. its not limited to road cars though. look at how people drove in the 60's to 80's~ in most classes that werent LMP's. Even F1 cars before they had all their aero they pretty much "drifted" trough corners. Its just going fast, trying to keep going fast in preserving momentum and using the brakes to get the rear to rotate the car on corner entry when you dont have the mechanical grip to do so. Ofc theres a skill on not overdoing it and just wasting your tires becuse you are actually just yeeting it around the track :d
I've been driving like this for years I just thought it was a form of power sliding I especially love driving FR type cars this way, Its such an elegant way to drive on the edge of both grip/ drift
I just found bros channel and I gotta say this man has a video for everything I could possibly think of. Cannot believe I’ve been outta the loop for years without knowing this dude existed
First of all, awesome driving! With risk of sounding nitpicky; I don't understand the drawings on 0:44. The cyan line is supposedly corresponding to the travelling direction of the car but is drawn tangentially to the purple line like 5 meters in front of the car. It's supposed to be tangental to the purple line, parallel to the car. The slip angle is the angle between the blue line and the cyan line. It's actually supposed to diverge in the opposite direction of what is drawn. Another thing I don't understand is why the angle is measured between the line of travelling direction (cyan) and the corner arc (purple)
you can also stay on throttle. Stab the brake at entry with your left foot to compress the front, turn in as you get off the brakes and set you angle. You may need the feather the brakes as you power through to the exit. Especially good in a laggy turbo car. Works best on a car with slightly softer springs and dampening. Its also a good front wheel drive technique where you want to cause some over-steer and correct it with power under-steer to stay tucked into the corner.
In the start I was super lost at what slip angle was, but by the end I figured it out, how it works, and to some degree how to do it. Great vid.
Slip angle isn't something you "figure out how to do". This video uses the term incorrectly. Any car with tires going through a corner has some sort of slip angle.
bro thank u very much. Im from Russia and unfortunately, on Russian-language RUclips, the topic of this driving technique is not touched upon by almost anyone, neither by sim racers nor by professionals. Thanks a lot for the analysis, it was nice to see.
Pretty much done this with most racing games, sometimes subconsciously. Banking on the road makes a huge difference when it comes to slip angling. Kinda like how a motoX bike rides along the top of a banked corner, its almost the same principle but with 4 wheels and a much heavier vehicle
correct me if i'm wrong:
drifting is a technique where you can add more slip through the whole cornering process. slip angle is a technique where the driver will make the car slip before reaching the apex of a corner and gets on the gas as fast as he can so it will have faster exit compared to normal cornering. when initiating slip angle, adding more slip beyond the apex point by power or handbrake is no longer necessary and doing so will kill the point of slip angle.
I didn't even know that this was some sort of special driving technique, I've allways driven faster corners on trackdays similar to this, simply because it really helped to keep my car from understeering too much, since its FWD. That way I can clear those corners with minimal steering imput and according to the times those laps allways where my fastest.
So thats why I'm fast.
I have a style, called Bad Takumi. I play a lot of sim racing in Forza 7.
I take a powerful, fast accelerating car, then follow the racing line as much as I can with minor adjustments.
(Lack of handling and the abundance of oversteer and understeer.)
I never knew why I was able to do it so fast, the mild drift seemed to make me faster.
I accidentally practiced Slip Angle already.
Cool !! I usually do that on assetto with FWD cars cause it's easier to get out of a tricky situation than a RWD cause i need to learn proper drifting (clutch kick, scandi flick, throttle management etc..) so I'm used to it but it ain't always perfect and i sometimes go test the strength of a tree xD
Cool you're showing simple diagrams and your pedalboard inputs to illustrate how to do that slip/slide/4wheel drift or whatever you wanna call it. I might redo it over and over, understand one day, rewatch many videos or get someone to explain.. if i dont have the theory behind it, even just a basic logic of what's going on, it'll never be saved by my brain x)
Time to drift with my NSX let's goooo
I think this is what Ryosuke meant by in between drift and grip.
@@takumifujiwara2073 He does 4 wheel drifts. There's a tutorial on RUclips about how to do it.
Personally, I think (in theory, I haven't been able to test it yet) that rotation should be done at entry/mid corner to point the car towards the exit earlier while carrying speed.
Then when reaching exit phase, the line from the car to the exit of the corner is more straight, and the car shouldn't rotate as much, because the less the rear wheels are spinning exiting the corner, the better exit you have, because traction is maximised and the more momentum you gain earlier and more constantly.
Sorry for the long comment 😌
this is actually a really good explanation
@@deletedchannel117 Thanks! ✨
very well explained, I didn't know slip angle was a thing even though I tend to do that when entering corners too fast, I'm going to practice this technique thanks alot for the videos and keep up the great work
This is good work. Thanks . Now you must show this example on every sim EVER MADE.
The fact that this can help other racing game too, and even irl car racing 🤯
So thats what its called. I've actually been doing this IRL for about 6 or 7 years now but I never actively considered it drifting because of the lack of steering angle. Its definately helped me get to work in a hurry several times. Thankfully I live out in the middle of nowhere and work at night so theres never really anyone on the road when I'm trying to get to work or having a fun run on the back farm roads.
now I have something to send to people so they understand my driving technique, thank you for making this understandable
Idk if I ever have done this without noticing, but watching this video makes me wanna try it.
Getting some serious God Hand vibes in the sense that he drives on the absolute grip limit, making it look like he's gripping and drifting at the same time. #GodHandGotDrip
This will help so so much thanks!!
Glad to hear it!
On a track where exits matter a lot more than cornering speed if you have to counter steer, it ends up slower than not trail breaking at all and accelerating late. Your wheel shouldn't be straight it should be turned toward the corner still obviously that depends on the car setup on how much towards the corner you need, but a perfectly straight wheel will destroy your exit speed and entry speed because you can't use your brakes because you're sideways and any throttle will require counter steer. If you can do that with adding brake and throttle inputs you need to fix the car setup. 10 degrees of slip angle is way too much as well. 2-5 degrees is what you should aim for. Your car isn't setup properly if you need more.
I didn't even realize I was already doing this to a degree! Now I know what I need to double down on in order to become faster!
The weird thing about F1 is that if you notice in some specific circuits, the drivers will actually use the slip angle to be faster in a corner but it's just enough to turn them in fast without sending them into a spin
Although I knew of the benefits of the 4 wheel drift, I never released that F1 also does it (albeit very subtly). Because of how subtle it is in F1, I though it was only useful for low-grip cars.
After watching your video, using slip angle seems to be a much more obvious (and viable) choice for going faster
I improved myself at the point of making slip angle with 1 hand and while smoking xd
Technically, every corner has SOME slip angle. Even when your aunt takes the Subaru Outback through an intersection at with her hands at 11 and 1. There is no grip without slip. However, that slip doesn't become even vaguely visible until like 90% grip. In normal conditions, the sidewall just twists a little bit, and its resistance to that twist is what actually generates side load. This used to be much more apparent on older bias-ply tires and compounds that made peak grip at much higher angles.
I for years couldn't do it IRL, drift, sure but proper throttle steering was elusive.
Then, one rainy day, it just clicked and now feels ...natural. It's as if there is no resistance and whole vehicle relaxes somehow.
About a week ago i got my Wheel/pedals and shifter, got Assetto Corsa in VR and tried drifting for fun. The whole concept eluded me at first, then i thought about it... How more power translate in needing to have more countersteer, and how much the car understeer if missing the entry point.
Then last night we were playing and my brother was like "Why aren't you drifting anymore?"
What do you mean -I said, i'm drifting with less countersteer that's all
He doesn't have a clutch for his setup so he is forced to make the car scream on every corner. Now after watching your video i just realized i was gravitating to using less counter steering as it felt more natural, but tonight i will try ditching the clutch and try this approach to see if i can get better runs.
Btw, if you don't mind asking what track is that?
It's Tsukuba Fruits Line
@@TSRB thanks a lot I have it, just didn't recognized it, weird
Hidden gems tips for a sims racer! Thanks!
I guess ive been doing this alot in Dirt2. I called it lift-off over steer. But I knew it really wasn't. Now I know what it really is and I can start to master it. thanks. I actually use this so much in dirt I forget to do much steering lol.
Bruh I found this so damn well explained, thank you , I understand so much now
A while ago I decided I wanted to practice gt5 and was running tsukuba circuit trying to tune a new WRX in grand Turismo 5
I found myself doing an odd version of this on shorter hairpins where I would turn sharply and break, swing the car around slightly, then accelerate.
I think that was on fastest on those hairpins because it's close to the slip angle method demonstrated here while still working with binary acceleration (either on or off) due to the short radius.
I’ve been using slip angle at Kart Tracks, it’s so satisfying when you don’t need to counter steer and the kart just slide across a corner.
Any vehicle with a tire going through a turn has some sort of slip angle. The term is not being used correctly here.
So apparently I’ve been using takumis technique in forza since before I watched initial d and didn’t even know what slip angle was
I accidentaly did Slip Angle during karting on a really low gripy turn, It was insanely faster, I didn't know how I was turning that fast on that corner, now I understand everything
You can get great slip angle by downshifting how Takumi does like from 5th, 4th, 3rd, to 2nd will raise the rpm's makes the rear spin and full brakes on the front cause massive sag in the front and as you turn the rear will slip out assisting so you can get out of the turn, it will be difficult gauging the speed because if you go in too fast you'll be driving out of the turn scraping the guardrails.
very weird way to phrase things, but a good explaination. i know it's not quite grip, nor drift, but it's making the car do both simultaneously. i consider it powersliding, to a degree.
I never knew that the technique I've been using in video-games ever since I first played racing games as a kid was this complicated. Never knew the term either, the more you know. Now I know how I was able to kick my big brothers asses all the time in racing games.
Thanks for the explanation, it was easily understandable. You deserve a lot more subs!
I did already know what this was, but I didn't actually know this was called slip angle. Pretty good explanation in my opinion, good video
It's not called slip angle. The term is being used incorrectly here.
for anyone asking the map is Tsukuba fruits line (I can't find the map with the same season as his but its the same track)
Oh that’s weird, I’ve been playing drifting games for a while and I’ve played the same map over and over and began beating people. After a while I realized that the more subtle I made my drifts the faster I went. After a while of working on that I managed to do the corners with a large burst of understeer and little countersteer and began beating everyone who raced me. A pseudo-slip angle turn!
Everyday is a school day. I love to learn new stuff about cars. Subscription guaranteed.
Honestly I think this looks way better than modern drift cars going completely sideways. The transition looks way more smooth compared to a full on drift.
Tbh your an amazing teacher
What a incredible channel I just founded ❤
Thats exactly what I got used to doing in assetto corsa using a controller! A controller doesnt allow for very precise steering inputs so I learned to steer with the throttle at slip angle and I cant believe this is an actual technique!
lmfao back on the ps2 i used to do the same thing in GT3 and GT4. I'd tune cars specifically to maximize their ability to no countersteer drift (slip angle) and use the throttle to keep the car rotating around the turn, using just a little countersteer at the end of the turn to get the car straight again. Realized over the years that if you wanna go fast, you gotta be at the absolute edge of the tires grip, so stepping out the rear to go faster just made sense.
@@kasuraga yeees exactly, many people wonder how I am so smooth on asetto with a controller and most are confused when I say that I steer with the throttle hehe
Im very impressed im a big initial d fan and ive know this but you did a great job showing what u as a driver has to do and what ur car is doing great job
Subscribed btw✌
Always a mystery to me and yet it was the technique that I always strived for without knowing it
Been doing this without knowing it on fh4 fortune island, thanks for explaining it for my friends 😁
I didn't know I could this as I did this naturally.. I went go-kartin and the guy said slip angle and I asked him what that was... he basically explained it when my rear tires match the same tire line as my front. He says it's hard to do because you have to be max grip in order to this.
It's a cool skill to know and it's one of the fastest way to get around the track imo
thank you for this
I've already learned this on my own playing gran turismo sport, if you adapt this technique on all rwd cars it's very op and fun