This is such a great tutorial. I want to thank you for making this series. it has made me improve on score writing (for strings) and made me understand a lot more about cellos and violins as I only played viola.
I keep coming back to this series over and over. Are you thinking of expanding this series to include chamber combinations with double bass as well? Given the dearth of chamber music with bass, and the overall dearth of good double bass scoring, maybe you could help composers develop in this area?
Great course! Are you thinking of making a moooc for winds and another for brass? Would be beautiful!!! Thanks for your dedication so important for the community!!!
Fantastic video Lesson, it is a pity are not available subtitles of the teacher, for non-native English language some sentences are difficult to understand
Why was there a picture of a woman when you went over Mendelssohn's quartets? Is it fanny? Did she have a hand in the composition of some of the quartets?
I use Musescore to compose my works and I find the violins to be overpowering when all the instruments are at the same dynamic in musescore. It makes little difference for large orchestra, where you expect strings to be predominant in sound but for a small group, it can be a big difference. So instead of for example having all the instruments at a piano dynamic, I would have the violins pianissimo and the cello and piano at mezzo-piano so that I can hear everything. This isn't as bad with a string quartet but because the cello and the piano have very similar overtone spectra, while the violins have a close to equal amount of the first 8 harmonics, it is like the cello and piano get phased out due to constructive interference and differences in overtone spectra. And with real players, not just in musescore, I find like as close to equally balanced as possible with this instrument combination: Cello Piano duo Crossing octaves and the timbre of the cello changing as you go up or down octaves while the timbre of the piano stays pretty much the same and having both instruments forte aren't problems at all. I find the warm tone of the cello complements the percussive sound of the piano very well and makes it sound almost like you have the pedal pressed on the piano due to the sustain of the cello and resonance with the piano. Flute and piano are also pretty balanced except if the piano is forte while the flute is in the low register. But yeah, I find the violins to be overpowering in musescore and the violas to be kind of on the borderline between balanced and overpowering. But will it be a problem once I get the piece performed if I have all the instruments at the same dynamic? Will I be able to hear all those notes? Or would it be like it is in musescore, violins taking the lead so much that that's pretty much all you can hear?
Stop listening to the playback in Musescore and start score-reading string quartets. Many many quartets. Pay attention to the way dynamics are scored, and that will give you all the information you need.
At 33:30 the cello is scored in treble clef and has a notes out of the staff, but to my ears they sound an octave lower. Is there a scoring convention I'm missing?
Hi Kyle, I do mention in a note in this video, and also the previous video about string trio scoring, that 19th century publishers used to score treble clef reading 8vb. It's a kind of cheap and easy high register scoring for people who don't want to read tenor clef. ;)
There are some great ones out there to be sure. But I'd recommend learning to score piano trio first, then piano quartet. Build up to it. I also feel that you should know how to score for string quartet very well before attempting a piano quintet (which is piano + string quartet). Piano quartet is a great stepping-stone to larger chamber groups in general, such as the other ones I mention. But if you're really set on scoring a piano quintet, then first learn this lesson and the next one on string quartet, after which study quintet scores and then give it a go.
unbelievable, a full hour long! I´m so grateful for all the work you put into this.
This is such a great tutorial. I want to thank you for making this series. it has made me improve on score writing (for strings) and made me understand a lot more about cellos and violins as I only played viola.
Good to hear from you, and so glad that you're able to put the information to good use! :)
Glad to hear that your tutorial series is doing a great job teaching everyone to analyze a score and teach how the instrument works.
I keep coming back to this series over and over.
Are you thinking of expanding this series to include chamber combinations with double bass as well? Given the dearth of chamber music with bass, and the overall dearth of good double bass scoring, maybe you could help composers develop in this area?
This is really fantastic! Better than watching a feature film.
Great course! Are you thinking of making a moooc for winds and another for brass? Would be beautiful!!! Thanks for your dedication so important for the community!!!
So sad Like button works only once:)Thank You sir for making all these very instructive videos!
Thank you for making learning so accessible!! I love your work a lot
Fantastic video Lesson, it is a pity are not available subtitles of the teacher, for non-native English language some sentences are difficult to understand
Wonderful video! Thank you so much!
Great video! Can't wait for the winds! :D
at 1:48 you say that there will be more MOOOC courses, but i don't see them anywhere. where are they?
Why was there a picture of a woman when you went over Mendelssohn's quartets? Is it fanny? Did she have a hand in the composition of some of the quartets?
That's Felix as a kid...
I use Musescore to compose my works and I find the violins to be overpowering when all the instruments are at the same dynamic in musescore. It makes little difference for large orchestra, where you expect strings to be predominant in sound but for a small group, it can be a big difference. So instead of for example having all the instruments at a piano dynamic, I would have the violins pianissimo and the cello and piano at mezzo-piano so that I can hear everything. This isn't as bad with a string quartet but because the cello and the piano have very similar overtone spectra, while the violins have a close to equal amount of the first 8 harmonics, it is like the cello and piano get phased out due to constructive interference and differences in overtone spectra.
And with real players, not just in musescore, I find like as close to equally balanced as possible with this instrument combination:
Cello Piano duo
Crossing octaves and the timbre of the cello changing as you go up or down octaves while the timbre of the piano stays pretty much the same and having both instruments forte aren't problems at all. I find the warm tone of the cello complements the percussive sound of the piano very well and makes it sound almost like you have the pedal pressed on the piano due to the sustain of the cello and resonance with the piano. Flute and piano are also pretty balanced except if the piano is forte while the flute is in the low register.
But yeah, I find the violins to be overpowering in musescore and the violas to be kind of on the borderline between balanced and overpowering. But will it be a problem once I get the piece performed if I have all the instruments at the same dynamic? Will I be able to hear all those notes? Or would it be like it is in musescore, violins taking the lead so much that that's pretty much all you can hear?
Stop listening to the playback in Musescore and start score-reading string quartets. Many many quartets. Pay attention to the way dynamics are scored, and that will give you all the information you need.
At 26:37 you say "Mendelssohn's" where you mean "Schumann's."
Thanks for catching that! I will add an annotation.
At 33:30 the cello is scored in treble clef and has a notes out of the staff, but to my ears they sound an octave lower. Is there a scoring convention I'm missing?
Hi Kyle, I do mention in a note in this video, and also the previous video about string trio scoring, that 19th century publishers used to score treble clef reading 8vb. It's a kind of cheap and easy high register scoring for people who don't want to read tenor clef. ;)
must have missed that note, thank you!
No worries, it is confusing to be sure.
What about piano quintet?
There are some great ones out there to be sure. But I'd recommend learning to score piano trio first, then piano quartet. Build up to it. I also feel that you should know how to score for string quartet very well before attempting a piano quintet (which is piano + string quartet). Piano quartet is a great stepping-stone to larger chamber groups in general, such as the other ones I mention. But if you're really set on scoring a piano quintet, then first learn this lesson and the next one on string quartet, after which study quintet scores and then give it a go.
Ok sure, thank you very much for your advice