Racing the 66 in Sikeston
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Racing the 66 in Sikeston, Thanks for the chance to run down the track with you@jbslittleshop2897 @dakotastimeout2827 @SandMountainBallistics @firstrespondergarage If I messed up on Video credits here PLEASE let me know! #nonamenationals
Cool Deal Skip! Looks like the Race Bug might have bit Ya! Good Guy, Cool Car, and Great Channel!
Been many years since we raced on a track or street, Brought back great memories, now new memories of meeting great folks such as yourself, I should have asked about nitrous while I was hanging out with ya but we were having a good time and that mattered more to me, Thank you for all you do, meeting you in person was fantastic!
@@skipsdarkhollowgarage8695 It was nice meeting you too, Skip!
Nice times and Recaps By You Skip.
Thanks!
Great video Skip!
Thanks man! It was great meeting and racing you guys and I hope to hang out with you again, we didn't have enough time to sit and talk/hangout but I hope we will!!
@@skipsdarkhollowgarage8695 yep theres hopefully always next year! Sure was great meeting you
Great video sir!! Was a fantastic time!!👍👍
Thanks JB, it was a Great time!
I think you’ve got the engine to go a lot quicker! Nice video!
Thanks brother!
Nice
Thanks!
Nice 👍
Thanks man!
Awesome video, I like how you laid that all out, do you do all your editing, or do you get help? What was leaking? 😳 hope it’s an easy fix.
Thanks man! I do all editing myself, this even though just 3 minutes took hours
Yoke was too short tearing up trans seal and bushing.
We just need to get ya some 455 power. My 65 GTO, 72 Formula, 79 Formula, 65 LeMans and 70 GTO all have 455s in them, or stroked 400s. The 65 GTO is my daily driver all summer. Got groceries with it yesterday. Super easy to get the 66 into the low 8s or 7s and stay daily driver with a 455 or 400 that has a 4.25" crank in it. I wanted to talk to you more than just when you were leaving, but it was good meeting you.
Ya, I was bummed we didn't get to educate me on what your doing on yours, I want a 455, always have since I got this car but only have the 389 to work with, maybe someday we can get together, what state do you live in?
@@skipsdarkhollowgarage8695 northern Michigan, straight north of Green Bay Wisconsin. It was a 14 hour drive to Sikeston..
A 389 works, you can get a 4" crank or a 4.25" crank, .057" over makes it into a 428 with the 4" and a 455 with the 4.25" crank. You can also get the valve reliefs for the later 14 degree heads from 1967-79. the later heads flow better, ping less, and are very easy to find.
Then a cam with 224/228 duration at .050, or with some ported heads a RA IV sized cam with a 110 LSA will make some great torque.
I like compression and E85 so I go for the small chamber early 67-70 heads, but the D ports all flow within a few CFM of each other, including the 350 heads with the small valves and press in studs. So you can tailor the compression ratio with various easy to find heads. The 46 and 47 heads from 70s vintage 350s make right around 9.5:1 compression with a flat top piston on a 455.
However, you can still make really good power with the 5C or 6X heads from 400s, and they have around 8.5:1 to 8.9:1 compression, you can run 87 octane rather than premium with those heads. 87 is cheaper than 93... a dollar cheaper where I live.
My 70 GTO weighs 4100lbs and ran 12.60s in the quarter with a 2.93 gear and 5C headed 455 running 87 octane, Ultradyne 280/288 cam which is close to a Ram Air III cam or the Summit 2802, but the UD cam has a 110 LSA. 1900 stall converter and no power adder. 12.60s equate to low 8s in the 1/8th mile. I daily drove it and took it on 1500 mile road trips often when I still had it on the road.
The GTO needs suspension and electrical work, so I am going to do a frame off rebuild on it like I did with the 65 GTO. On the road trips it got 18 to 20mpg with a 2004R in it and still ran the same times. Its not going to be raced anymore, its getting a 4 speed behind that 455 and I will just cruise it around and open it up a few times once I rebuild it.
A bit more compression and air flow can get you in the 11's in the quarter, and 7s in the 1/8 real easy. My 79 Formula weighed 3750 without me in it and ran 11.40s with a 3.42 gear behind the ported 670 headed 455 that had 11.3:1, without power adders. Those heads are on the 455 in the 65 GTO now, which is why it runs on E85. They make really good power.
The Formula has a 461 with used 87cc Edelbrock heads on it and a XE284 comp cam in it. I have less than $4000 in that entire engine. Its plan C for the NNN, just needs a cage and some other work to make it more drivable and to pass tech. Should run low tens in the 1/4 or somewhere close to or in the 6's in the 1/8th.
Pontiacs don't like a lot of gear or stall, 2400 is all you need with a sensible street engine like all those I mentioned here. 2.73 to 3.55 gears is all you need with a 4" or 4.25" crank, more than 3.55 will slow the car considerably. I slowed the Formula to 12.0s/7.70s by swapping a 4.10 gear in it, with the 3.42 it ran 11.40s and very low 7's on the short tracks.
The 4.10 moves the engine through the RPM band (2000 to 5500) where its making the most power too quickly, thus slowing the car. Since Pontiac 455s don't want to rev over 6000rpm without a serious increase in airflow, you are limited in how fast it will go with a 4.10 gear, and it does NOT help you in the 1/8th either. The Formula with the 4.10 was done before 900 feet on the track, meaning I had to travel the last 400 feet at 6000rpm. Not a good idea with factory rods, but it lived for ten years doing that.
When I was stationed in Charleston SC we took it to the track and I met a guy who had an 80 Formula running a 4X headed 455, he was running race gas, which he did not need with its 7:1-8:1 compression, and a 4.56 gear. It was an 1/8 track, and he had to spray a 200 shot at it to run where my 455 ran NA with the 4.10, and when I put the 3.42 back in it he had no chance of keeping up. A 3.08 to 3.55 gear would have helped him a lot, but he wouldn't do it.
Can't get these people who think chevy to understand that Pontiac isn't like chevy, they don't respond the same to gears, intakes, cams, and stalls. More is not always better. More compression and airflow is better, because a 455 doesn't really lose bottom end because the heads are 'too big' it just makes more and more torque through the entire rev range.
Pontiacs have a long intake runner, measure from the throttle blades to the bottom of the cylinders and its a lot longer than the sbc. Its smaller in size than the bbc, and just a tad longer, which is why the bbc can't make Pontiac torque without 150 more cubes and more compression.
That long column of air going through a small hole means Pontiacs have a very high velocity port, that means they fill the cylinders well from 2000 to 5000rpm and that means torque. Lots of torque.
Horsepower is torque over time, you take the torque x rpm and divide by 5252 to get HP, so HP will always be higher above 5252rpm. since Pontiacs are usually all done by 6000rpm, they aren't known for making big HP numbers, but they can very easily make 600ftlbs from 2500 to 4500rpm. That will move a heavy car like its nothing, if you can get it to hook. Put it in a light car and use a 3.00 gear behind it and the result is low ETs and high top speeds.
Its different thinking when making a Pontiac run. You want improve it and make it do what it does best, but better. It makes torque, so make it produce even more torque rather than trying to move the RPM range of the torque up, because there isn't enough airflow to do that until you are over 320cfm.
Now take the engine I have in the 68 LeMans, it has a 278/279 at .050 solid roller in it, 340cfm heads, and a tunnel ram. Without those heads, but still having that cam, it would be a pooch that goes slow. With that added airflow, it makes 650ftlbs below 3000rpm. The 467 I had those heads on before this engine made 650ftlbs from 2500 to 5500rpm with a similar sized cam. Increase airflow and you make a lot more torque everywhere.
Thats why Pontiacs love compression, it increases torque everywhere. The drawback is fuel quality, pump gas can only handle so much, 9.5:1 is about it with iron heads, and most people don't realize their pistons are lowering compression, and a flat top isn't always 10:1 in a Pontiac, because the chamber size of the heads was used to set compression. The chevys used dished pistons and the same chamber size head. Once again chevy thinking doesn't fit Pontiac.
On a 455 you can have 7:1 to 13:1 with factory iron heads, depending on how big the chamber is. I like lots of compression because I like lots of torque, and it uses less fuel to make the same power as well. Its more efficient with more compression./
Ethanol makes more power through the entire RPM range, but has the biggest increase under 4000rpm. With a 3.00 gear a 455 will be under 4000rpm for part of the run, and you want it to be, because its making LOTS of torque from 3000 to 6000. Its super easy to run E85, most often all that is needed is a carb swap.
Sometimes you have to clean or replace the fuel tank/cell because it will have varnish built up in it, and ethanol cleans that stuff out VERY effectively. It then will clog the pump, carb, lines, filters, etc. If you feed it 10% ethanol in pump gas over a year or two, it should be cleaned enough to not cause problems. The lower amount cleans it slower, and it doesn't clog things nearly as bad as all of it at once.
If you don't have E85 nearby, do like I do, fill up 55 gallon drums and use that. Its a 2 hour drive to the nearest station with E85 up here. I have two full barrels and half a barrel left from when I went to Nebraska in June. You can keep a 5 gallon jug in the trunk if you're worried, but the 65 GTO can make the 40 mile round trip into town 3 or 4 times on a single 20 gallon tank, and that includes me beating the snot out of it. I do not drive it easy.
If I do drive it like a sensible individual it gets 17mpg mixed city and highway. Not bad considering how bad the aero is on a 65 GTO. On pump gas with a 400 that had 7.7:1 with 6X heads turning 2.56 gears, the best it could do was 15mpg. Currently there is a 3.08 geared 8.2 posi in the 65 that came out of a 72 Gran Prix. It rips with that 11.5:1 455 in it. Should be in the 11s in the quarter if it ever hooks. the 255 65 15 Coopers keep the Th350 and 8.2 alive by spinning... heh..
I have a 3.50 gear behind that engine in the 68, and I am thinking I might go with a 3.25 or a 3.00 in the 9". If nothing else I will set up another chunk for it and bring it along to show how this works. Takes about an hour to swap gears in a 9" when you replace the entire center section.
You don't have to go with all the expensive aftermarket parts, factory stuff works really good on a Pontiac. You just mix and match parts to get what you want. Keep it under 5800rpm and factory rods with ARP bolts will hold together a long long time. Forged rods are cheap now, costing about the same as putting ARP bolts in factory rods and resizing them does.
Crank kits to make your 389 bigger are as cheap as $1500 with quality forged rods and pistons, cast cranks are good well beyond 700hp/tq. So don't worry about getting a forging unless you plan to boost it, I only own one forged crank, everything else is factory or Eagle cast cranks. A billet crank for LOTS of boost is a good idea. My 467 has an Eagle cast crank in it and its tough. It took lots of runs before I pulled the heads for the new engine.
Save up, get some used heads from the guys in the Pontiac groups/forums, and you can have a low buck 455 sized monster too. Stay D port and headers are cheap, the Summit Racing 1 5/8" headers work great, its what all my D ports have on them. the round ports run Super Comps with 3.5" collectors. You don't need big headers until you are making more than 600hp/tq.
Also 400 blocks aren't hard to find.. You just have to look, and ignore the guys asking $1000 or more for them, and the guys who think a stock intake is worth $300 to $600. I paid Butler $500 for the 467's block, otherwise all of mine came to me from free to $250. They are out there, you just need to find one. Put the word out and people will start telling you about them, thats how I get engines.
Maybe I should start buying up the ones I find and passing them on to friends like you who need one.. :) Hit up Layne Otteson, he either has or can find just about any Pontiac part you need. He isn't too bad on price either. Mention me and he will take ya serious. heh.
@@skipsdarkhollowgarage8695 had to split up the reply, I think it was too long to post.
@SweatyFatGuy Oh man! I thought 7 was bad LOL