The Future of Woke w/Eric Kaufmann (PLUS AUSTRALIA SHOWS ANNOUNCEMENT)
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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Coleman, Thank you so much for your calm, sane and objective presentations and interviews! You are a credit to public discourse.
"Wokeness" looked alive and well at the opening ceremonies of the Summer Olympics in France the other night. Last hurrah? I hope so.
Ah, well, it's sure not going to go away anytime soon. Big $$$, big narcissist egos are behind a lot of this garbage, so people have to keep fighting against it as much as they can muster.
Especially teach their children not to abandon common sense, and physical reality. No, men cannot be women, or vice versa no matter how often they say that.
Every clinic, hospital now where I am is innundated with it. They all now, (save for one maybe) use the term "pregnant persons", and the churches gladly fly the trans (child abuse) flag.
For more info on the big $ behind much of the current garbage being pumped into the education system, workplaces, etc., check out journalist Jennifer Bilek.
Americans are not the frivolous and silly French. Steal, yourself, Man. Especially if your an American. We fight back. We have no history of being Europe's 'commoners'. And unlike those Weens we enshrined the right to speak with very few limitations, like screaming fire in a crowded theater with no fire. Or libeling someone without proof to back your libel up. How many hurricanes do you think that DEI can survive when it's message has become such an embarrassment? Even many Democrats don't like it because it's killing their party. They would never say that publicly. Can't wait for the crying in Nov.
I never stop to admire Coleman's ability to summarize a long winding talking of his guest in one succinct sentence.
Wokeness predominates the corridors of power, which gives away the game. Instead of destroying power structures, they simply want to occupy them and be able to oppress. To them, it isn't a reckoning on race, sex, gender, etc. that is desired; it's comeuppance.
Most of the self-described Anarchists I know have an authoritarian streak. And they capitalize on loose organizational structures of "consensus" and "reading the room" rather than majority rule to seize power.
You're describing liberalism.
It’s the new divine right to rule. We have the only legitimate right to use force because we are kind and sensitive.
@@WinstonSmithGPTbeing an oppressor is exhausting though 😂
See these 2 men, look at their faces. Easy to see their integrity, intellect and humanity. Excellent human beans. Thank you.
Human beans sound yummy, do they make a good chili?
calm, thoughtful, not trying to push ideas on people aggressively but rather letting the audience draw their conclusions from the arguments being presented. wonderful stuff
im an ex-muslims and i was having horrible times trying counter radical ideas but radicals actually have the upper hand because that's what written in the Quran and ahadith also muslim scholars just follow and explain it
I enjoy listening to Apostate Prophet, David Woods and GodLogic, stay strong!
Americans have difficulty discerning left liberalism from authoritarian socialism.
At the moment the state begins favouring one group over another the state has left liberalism and has entered into authoritarian socialism.
Pretty sure America is still a capitalist entity and the heart of western empire. But now it's socialist? Is everything you don't like 'socialist'? Like people calling everyone they don't agree with completely a 'narcisssist'? Do you think needing people to agree with you completely is in itself a form of authoritarianism?
A friend of mine went to college as an adult. She was a very compassionate person before that. But after college, she came out with a religiosity about race and oppression.
I bet she’s a joy to be around
It's the world's Schittiest religion. Both messiah and deity free, and yet its adherents have twice the baseline zealotry of any jihadi.
At least she didn't come out as "he" or "xi"
There's a genre of photo memes of beautiful well kempt young girls transformed into ugly, pierced, shaven and mutilated trans men after going to college.
Yup. A college education today is indoctrination to the Globalist worldview (which includes Woke).
Eric Kaufman imho has always had the clearest, most intellectually satisfying accounts of wokeness but more than that, the way he talks about the issues should be a model for all. Dispassionate, analytical but also able to tap into the humour to be found when contemplating the truly ridiculous. Bravo Eric.
Both, the host and the guest, are very articulate, making the conversation so interesting and easy to follow. Thank you to both.
Good lord. I will struggle with a thought and intuition for literally years. I try to put it into words that others can grasp and Coleman comes along and summarizes it all on one sentence at the drop of a hat.
Great discussion. Interesting definition of "woke" - "The making sacred of historically marginalized race, gender, and sexual identity groups"
racism changed “sides” to stay alive.
outrage or "offended culture" sure changed sides
@@flain283😂
That’s actually not true at all, the democrat party (which was formed in place of the Whig party) has always been, and remains, the party of institutional racism.
I’m in Brisbane and won’t be able to make it to your Australia shows 💔, but I’m so glad you’ll be here. I’m happy for the people who will make it.
The question is how will wokeness evolve lol
Plus I have to wonder how much influence guys like Coleman and Kaufman have in academia? I can’t imagine they have much. Guys like Sowell are completely ignored in academia so until this somehow turns around - wokeness is here to stay
Emotionally driven people who feel they are losing their perceived birthright power will become more extreme and align themselves with other extremist groups, such as Islamists.
It's evolved to take over the right in the form of right wing feminism
Coleman = calm and walking valium
Thank you from Australia
RE the political gap between young men and young women, I think this conversation missed some key points. 1. The left is largely feminist and blames men (among other groups) for many problems. 2. Traditionally male areas of life have been feminized leading men to feel out of place in society. This pushes them towards alternatives to the current left liberal culture.
Great discussion Coleman. Smart and thoughtful analysis all around. Thanks for having him on.
Is wokeness over.... "white women for Kamela Zoom call" - abso-fn-lutely its not. That Robin DeAngelo HR meeting Zoom call was the actually terrifying.
Yes, there are many who don't feel strongly about their disagreement with (in this case) social justice fundamentalism, but I think it's a bit more sinister than that. The real "silent majority" are those with no strong commitments to any principles at all, who feel strongly only that they should do and say whatever it takes to gain the approval of their peers, who believe that that's what it means to "be nice".
Coleman, love your work! I normally listen to you on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I couldn’t find this there - just wondering if things are changing? Keep up the great work - it’s been incredible to witness your ascension!
Hope to make it to the show in Melbourne!
Bangladesh currently demonstrating the end result of decades of ethnic quotas
Could you explain a bit more?
@@frakismaximus3052 Basically, there's been quotas for a few privileged groups for Govt jobs in Bangladesh since independence. Over the years that means a lot of very qualified people have been locked out of the best paying jobs in the country. Students started protesting about it. The Govt cracked down on the protests. Now the protests have spread across the country. The Govt has imposed a shoot on sight curfew and an internet blackout amid standoffs with militant protestors who are waging a campaign of vandalism on critical infrastructure. Economic activity in the country has ground to a halt. Hundreds of people have been killed in rioting and by politically connected death squads.
@@adtastic1533Thank you. Bangladeshi Civil Service Quota System on Wikipedia in case anyone else is interested.
@@adtastic1533 Wasn't that all the result of a caste system?
It seems like certain people would like to have a caste system in the West as well. You can or cannot do certain studies or jobs based on your (etnic) background.
@@adtastic1533 Omg I'm so sorry to learn that. My heart goes out to all the victims. Is political violence a common occurrence in Bangladesh? The government seems pretty authoritarian too. We had similar looting, vandalism and chaos with BLMANTIFA riots in 2020 and MAGA Jan 6th 2021 but I don't think we ever had shoot at sight orders.
53:39 to 54:19 - Agreed. Such history should be taught in context.
56:56 to 59:42 - Great point about gender difference and selective empathy.
Why is it Muslim women don’t have to go through security like I have to? I watched a woman refuse in front of me and she got away with it but me as an atheist? I am not the one taking down planes.
I no longer recognise my 2 granddaughters since graduating university. They used to be my favorite people to chat with... I am now almost afraid to open my mouth. We are a multi-racial family. Im the only (grandparent) of Colour, so although they're mixed, they look white.
What's skin colour got to do with the decline in your relationship with your grandchildren? Genuine question.
@@milkypeanit They have probably become little Robespierres who police her words for signs of oldthink and never lose an opportunity to berate and lecture her.
Jonathan Haidt would probably agree with this. He points out that these Gen Zers, who entered the work in recent years, will be in the work force for the next thirty to forty years. We're stuck with them. Hopefully, their energy and zeal will moderate over time, but there is no guarantee of that happening. We have to be concerned, too, about the generation right on their heels. They may be worse!
Josh spent years in the industrial woke complex and it will take years for him to deradicalise
Hey thanks for coming to Australia. I don't live in Sydney or Melbourne but I really hope you enjoy it here. Also I'm always more interested in hearing Coleman Hughes ideas more than the people you interview. I like how Sam Harris does like a podcast essay every once in a while. It would be great if you could put some of your articles on youtube, or when other people interview you, you should ipload it to your channel like Douglas Murray does. Anyway, I really hope you enjoy Australia. I hope you get to spend some time in Queensland as they have some of the best beaches, even in Winter you will enjoy it. All tbe best.
Really excited to about your upcoming events with Josh Zepps.
Thanks for all you do!
Festival of Dangerous Ideas - one of Hitch's best speeches.
I think peak woke was achieved at the start of the Olympics.
In ancient Greece?
Lol @milkypeanit
Will be checking out your Australian dates. Please come to Ireland next year!
A turning point was the Civil Rights Act of 1964 with the cancellation of Goldwater preceding the mass migration exchange of parties.
The Democratic Party became the party of legal force and as Buckley acceded to a need for special treatment, through the courts came the injustices of discrimination to correct historical discrimination.
That led to the two parties making this divide their bread and butter.
Now, minorities are migrating to the Republican Party in realization of the superficiality of Democrats who are as committed to corporate and military industrial complex service as any Republican.
No self respecting Jew can vote for Harris, no Asian can vote for Democrats that penalize them for having strong families and work ethic, including Mexicans who object to open borders and crime in progressive cities facilitated by woke AGs,
Woke will continue but people are moving their votes.
I would like to know more about the role of the “soft support”.
It seems that instead of taking care of our trash, we protect it. Why?! And how to revert it?
I feel that more and more we act as parents that blame the school and shield the little devil when a note about a bad behavior arrives. What could possibly go wrong?
I have another take on why women have been more religious than men. I believe in part it is a reaction to powerlessness. Similar to American Black people's devotion to their religion and religious communities. When your lives are at the mercy of others who exert many means of control over your life, where else to look than in a power greater than yourself. I also think it explains the past conservatism of women, who had learned (and in some cases, still learn) the negative consequences of rocking the boat, of upsetting the power balance at home or at work; there was the understandable instinct to "conserve" whatever privileges had been conferred upon them. The evolving dominance of progressive thought and action in women is a direct result of women's security financially and access to power in the marketplace and in government.
Thank you so much, Coleman! Despite being so young, you are already a cultural treasure of Amirica!
That is a great Vonnegut short story.
Not going to lie, very depressing. Even though very sobering.
I’ve actually stopped listening to these types of discussions for that reason - it’s just a group of folks that like to write books and do tours and cash in while not much changes .
@@brianmeen2158 Eric Kaufmann's book (Taboo: How Making Race Sacred Produced a Cultural Revolution) is very, very good; you should read it. (Right-of-center but reasonable & evidence-based.) Also, Musa al-Gharbi's book (We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite) is likewise very, very good; you should read that, too. (Left-of-center but reasonable & evidence-based.) Both books, read one after the other, is a good way to go, for they go quite well together, filling in each other's gaps.
Senior liberal journalists not being as intolerant - while I agree with this in general, there are people like Emily McCombs, who still works for HuffPost.
(I can't quote what she said a few years ago because while she didn't face any backlash, RUclips would very likely delete my comment if I did.)
Coleman is the man.
~ 12:00 mark - Coleman correctly notes the big difference btwn old school Marxists who were "rigorous" and didn't worry about feelings (let alone micro-aggressions) . Eric notes that this changed in the 1960's from liberal and progressive influence. That is, non-Marxist influence. The "Marxism" of the post WWII period is remarkable for it's lack of class analysis and revolutionary goals. I would argue that the "Marxism" of today would be unrecognizable to the Marxists of the 1930's and prior (when we actually had a militant working class). The self-styled Marxists of today are middle and upper middle class, that is - bourgeois - according to the Marx of the Communist Manifesto. People should really read Vivek Ramaswammy's book "Woke, Inc.". He demonstrates that Woke Ideology's quick and insidious rise to prominence is a consequence of being lavishly funded by Wall St, Big Business and oligarch foundations. Woke's origins come out of the 2008 financial crisis and Occupy Wall Street. Woke Ideology represents a "radicalism" that does not threaten the bottom line of Big Business. That's why it is promoted everywhere.
I’m getting really bored of the “Woke” conversation. Things have definitely calmed down online and in person where the pressure to be PC isn’t nearly as intense as it was. I’d love to hear Coleman take on more current US politics…we have a major election coming up!
Yes but it still dominates the corporate world which provides all our products and services, not to mention the universities which are just producing another generation with this skewed view.
Those radicalized kids in the Ivy League are going to be federal judges, politicians, and CEOs in the coming years. It's going to ramp up sharply.
Tell me you didn't listen to the conversation without telling me you didn't listen to the conversation.
Harris is woke personified. It's a serious problem.
It's gotten a bit better but we need to not let our guard down and instead go on the attack.
Hi Coleman - I'm from Australia but in Queensland - won't be able to get to your event. Hopefully you can do an event in Brisbane sometime - so much better place than Sydney and Melbourne 🙂. Just kidding - Syd and Mel are ok. Have a great trip.
What does it mean to have half of your age cohort wearing some sort of LGBTQ identity? Some possible answers.
- lots of self-conscious posturing and jumping onto fashionable bandwagons.
- lots of confused young adults who are not well primed to be successful in long-term relationships.
- lots of psychologists and counselors rubbing their hands together with glee at the fees they will earn further down the line as the long term health consequences of this mass delusion become apparent.
- lots of parents who will not have grandchildren.
Regardless of how much or little you're inclined towards Eric Kaufman, he brings a level of seriousness to a topic that has tended to be pretty unhinged on attack and defense. Some here won't like it that he's not on board with the less rigorous but more reassuring black and white certainly and hyperbolic moral thought and rhetoric.
wokeness is not over, its never over. it will keep attempting to preach itself over & over but it is indeed losing relevancy because a lot of people have come out to call them out & clown them. Deserved honestly, it was bound to happen people get tired of their bs. They dont like it when the pendulum doesn't swing their way.
Coleman, when are you fixing the podcast? This was a great episode as always!
There is a damage that is done to soul of defeated peoples. The damage wrought on the Anglo Saxons post the Norman invasion is present in the British class system today.
I live in Australia, and despite never having lived with them, the Aboriginal Australians identifies with the African American because of skin tone, whereas they might have chosen indigenous Africans.
What unites them is their failure to succeed in a materialist industrial society and the fact that Europeans are in the majority in their country.
Excellent to hear about your gigs with Josh. I'll definitely be at the Melbourne one.
The point about silent majority is interesting - if what's at stake is extremely meaningful for a minority and less meaningful for the majority, then the minority will prevail. You can see this with Unions - if I pay a few $$ extra for imported goods because of inefficiencies at the port, I wouldn't halt my life and go protesting for this. But the Union guy at the port can double his salary and pension over those struggles so he will.
This dude (Kaufmann) reminds me a lot of present career politicians. There is a compelling statement in the beginning, but the drill-down eventually results in irrelevant pontification.
I wish "The Third Awokening" was available in Audio-Books.
Me Too!
Hey Coleman, very excited you are coming to Melbourne!
This is a really good interview. I've felt sad seeing Eric being marginalised over the years, though it's good to see him still doing the rounds.
Hey @coleman I live in Adelaide, next time please organise to come here… all the best
First in. Big fan Coleman 👏🏼👏🏼
So we're trying to tame elephants with Reason.... Hmmm. That's why it's not working.
Wokeness (and most ideologies, like religion) is inherently unproductive. The US has a mixed economy, so wokeness is really only a threat to unproductive sectors like government and education. The fact that DEI departments are a pure cost and that hiring and promoting for non meritocratic reasons hurts the business matters a lot. People actually care about their pocketbooks and that shit around them actually works.
I think the best way to slowly kill wokeness is to stop subsidizing student loans. It should be like getting a car loan or a credit card. Once individuals face the full cost of college, normal incentives will take over and purge much of the nonsense.
What a shame, no Perth visit.
Couldn't agree more with his reasoning at 22:35. Once you accept the premise that an ideology is a valid foundation for argumentation you already lost. This is key! Resist it.
i have Erics def of woke pinned to my notice board. 2nd time seeing him.
Terrific interview and discussion…yet again. Than you
In any case Woke is melting down economically, going broke..
A money-less society is another question.
I have trouble identifying the woke, like unless it’s right in front of my face it’s hard to find the woke people. Like when I’m at Walmart shopping it’s hard to point them out
Thank you very much...
Tak!
microagressions are a component of post-modernism, not Marxism
Comment in support
TIK History has just produced a 2.5hr analysis of Marx the person. I recommend people read it if you agree with Colemancs assertion regarding vulgar Marxism.
how do we get you and Thomas Sowell on the Joe Rogan podcast together? This could save the world.
6:17 - I disagree with his definition of wokeness, what he is defining is identity politics, which is an element of progressivism but not at all the motivating philosophy behind it; firstly, it’s important realize that progressivism IS NOT NEW, it is actually as old as human society itself, it has evolved and developed into something that appears to be original through mere pseudoscience and sophistry, but the “why” behind progressivism remains the same throughout history: progressivism is the praxis of existential nihilism, that is ALL it is. Thomas More, for example, realized this in the 16th century in a polemical satire about the “progressivism” of his time, the title of which was a single word he coined to describe the objective sought by progressives, the word he coined for this purpose has since become ubiquitously known (though rarely understood) by modern people (in fact, the majority of notable progressives throughout the centuries following More’s coinage did use, and continue to use, this word to describe themselves): the title of More’s satire was “UTOPIA”, published in 1516 to ridicule the nihilistic absurdity of a “perfected” world, he invented the word “utopia” by combing the Greek “ou”, meaning “not”, with the Greek “topos”, meaning “place”, making the literal meaning of the word “utopia” equivalent to “no place”. A Utopian/Progressive is a person who engages in the subversion of WHAT IS in order to transform the world into what IS NOT, in other words, their destination of choice for the future is NO PLACE (thus making a “utopia” of the world).
It’s not over by a long stretch but once the people behind it see that it wont work for them anymore more they will drop it like a bad habit, which it incidentally is
If you are doing a show at the festival of dangerous ideas then peak wokeness is absolutely over in Australia. That trash was the wokest of the woke crap for way too long!
Kiitos!
'Woke' was originally Black American ebonics. Sad to see it twisted from its original meaning and cultural context.
What did it mean in that context?
Coleman Hughes please run for president!
The giant mics are back! It's like 2019 again!
Promoting cultural socialism is a genius way of blocking economic socialism
Pocket Casts doesn’t get your pods anymore. Please fix.
TIK History has just produced a 2.5hr analysis of Marx the person. I recommend people read it if you agree with Coleman's assertion regarding vulgar Marxism as being highly logical and reasonable.
I rarely, or never, disagree with Coleman - but I have to take issue with his pronunciation of "Australia".
Love Eric Kaufman
Deleuze & Gutarri seem to say "miniritorian norms" trump "majoritorian norms".
book doesn't seem to be available in UK amazon
It has a different title for the UK, but it's the same text. "Woke" word isn't in the title. I think I recall he was interviewed during an UnHerd podcast recently, and you'll get the title there. It's a publisher marketing thing I guess. I don't get the sense Eric is trying too hard to either inflame or avoid any offense...
Book's title in the UK is Taboo: How Making Race Sacred Produced a Cultural Revolution.
@@benjaminperez969 I preferred that title. It seemed to me more descriptive of Eric's approach, and less like catnip for partisan culture warriors. Of course my copy has a US title that I'm tempted to hide ( so I don't get mistaken for stereotypical right wing reactionary).
@@benjaminperez969 I wonder why the lesser title
@6:36 Sacralization. I do not think that word means what you think it means....
If the left is heavy LGBT and not reproducing the woke problem solves itself. It would be interesting if the enemies of woke culture fund campaigns to encourage them to continue to not have children and prioritize career over family. It would be a subversive tactic to win the culture war long term. The muslim immigrants to the US are 5-10 years ahead on this, they have huge families and will be the majority in many constituencies soon, which equals political power.
The west needs to fix its birthrate problem or muslims will turn their lands into 3rd world countries very soon.
Its not the left that isnt having kids its every american or european that is of a certain intelligence which allows them to assess that they are not financially ready to support a child.
So high intelligence people have doubts about reproducing while idiots and migrants reproduce en masse.
Its gonna be a huge demographic change in the future and nothing is ready for it.
you are a genius
25:00 Susan Sontag writing anti-white literature in the anticommunist magazine Partisan Review!
Any chance that you can fit in an appearance in Brisbane
🙏
This guy quickly points out the flaws in the Democratic party, but still says he will never vote Trump, don't get it???? Love you Coleman but what's up?
He said he'd vote for a more moderate Republican, if they came along. Trump is more authoritarian.
Awesome that you're coming to Oz. However, I wouldn't be surprised if your slot was ultimately cancelled by the organisers. Woke zealots down here, mate :(
Hmm. Long seemingly well made video, with very few views and comments. Well, let’s see what happens. I’ll give it a chance
Interesting.
Based on that horrid display at the Olympics, I’d say it’s alive and well. 😝
Have we figured out what "wokeness" even was?
Try not to judge the whole of Australia by Melbourne, Woketoria ...
People have been saying this since 2015. It’s not going anywhere.
Haha I know right. If we just have a few more thousand podcasts talking about it(while not talking about concrete ways of fixing said problem) then it will just go away 😃
For years I’ve always shook my head at the thought of fixing academia - it has seemed too far gone for quite some time so not sure why folks like Pinker and Coleman think they can fix it..?
@brianmeen2158 It might get fixed as more and more parents and students see the craziness going on on campus and also recognizing the lack of able bodies in the trades.
🤠