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Baptism Q&A w/ FLAME, Bryan Wolfmueller, & Lex Lutheran
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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As a Reformed Baptist myself, I’ve been thinking through these doctrines without any presuppositions from my own traditions. Thank you guys for helping me see from your perspective and think more critically about my own beliefs.
Thanks for engaging & watching!
Definitely encouraging to hear. We are all learners. Big salute.
Protestants have over 40,000 churches and they all have different views and interpretations. That being said, who teaches the Truth? If they all teach differently, them only one is correct and 39,999 churches are teaching incorrectly. 🤔 Makes you wonder...
🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
As a lifelong, multi-generational Lutheran, I love these videos! They help me appreciate my church and understand the viewpoint of those outside of it. Thank you!
Definitely encouraging to hear!
Realizing that Baptism and the Supper are God's work, which we receive by faith, but are actually JESUS HIMSELF, in the room with us and doing miracles, wow... There was no going back at that point. Assurance of salvation like I never believed was possible in this life, as well as a tangible closeness to God so many churches promised, but you could never know for sure if it was gonna happen. And this is better than what they would give, too!
What a great conversation. Thank you, gentlemen. Also, I want to sing in those acoustics...
Thanks for watching
Thanks so much! I know right?! The acoustics are amazing!
Come visit us.... 3501 Red River St., Austin TX. 🥰
I love how these difficult things are being discussed and grappled with. I’ve been studying and rethinking my eschatology and now believe strongly in partial-preterism rather than a dispensationalism, as previously. Now I’m rethinking baptism.
Good for you. Allowing Scripture Alone to teach us is the way to go. And this must be according to the very Rules of Exposition given in Scripture.
I was a die hard Baptist for 17 years of my adult life. And a premillenialist also. I knew these "doctrines" well and the arguments for them.
But faithful teachers challenged me and I went away and began to examine the "proof texts" for these doctrines. I attempted to categorically prove Baptist doctrine from Greek New Testament. But the more I dug, the more I saw their private interpretations fall apart, especially at the grammatical level and I realised that the Biblical position aligns with the historical practise that has held all through the Christian church as witnesses by the church fathers.
Regarding millenialism, I was able to see through that very easily once God opened my eyes.
The answers are simple, loom at how both the Lord and the Apostle's and other New Testament prophets handle the great "kingdom" prophesies of the Bible. And you will swiftly see they are expounded as fullfilled in Christ and his church.
The first such passage which opened by eyes was the Rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David in Amos 9:11, 12. But James under inspiration of the Holy Spirit shows us that this is fulfilled in Christ and his building of the church, particularly in his call of the Gentiles. (Acts 15:14-17).
One feature that becomes rapidly apparent in these cases is that this is the only time the passage is cited. And it is cited to show both that the "tabernacle of David" has been "rebuilt", namely in the raising of Christ to Rule all things
(Acts 2:30, 31; 1 Corinthians 15:23-25), but also in the cl of the nations into the church
(Acts 15:24, 25; Romans 15:12, 16)
The same pattern repeated itself often where the only citation of a classic "kingdom" passage will be shown to be fulfilled, not in an imaginary future kingdom, but rather in the church (eg Isaiah 2:2, 3 in Hebrews 12:22-25)
I have learned so much insight about faith and baptism through the Lutheran tradition that I am thankful for though I be not Lutheran. Grateful for Flame and Rev. Bryan and Lex for this conversation
Thanks for watching & for the compliment
Thanks for this video! My husband and I are meeting with the local LCMS pastor today to talk about baptism. We’re coming from a reformed Baptist perspective and so far this is the point of doctrine that is hardest to wrap my mind around. I get close to understanding then I get confused. Honestly, I just think it’ll take some time to “un-indoctrinate” myself of my Baptist ways of thinking, if that makes sense.
That’s so encouraging to hear, Carina! I certainly understand you all’s journey! I’m happy to hear that you & your husband are meeting with a local LCMS pastor! That’s perfect!! That will prove to be soooo helpful!! Especially with the confusion. I get it, ha! Feel free to check out my Q&A playlist. We cover a lot more. Enjoy!
@@ExtraNosAcademy Thanks! I’ll check it out! Last night’s meeting went really well, but I’ll definitely need to have it all more solidified in my mind better bc I know friends and family are going to have questions for us when we get around to telling them, lol.
Such a great discussion!
This is outstanding. Thank y’all for doing this!
That’s for watching Zack & always supporting
Thank you for showing the joy that is provided for all who know the Word and let us all teach such to those missing out because of reductionist “Christianity” - those clinging to mental achievements over what Jesus Christ has achieved and taught!
Amen! Thanks for the encouraging words!
Just found your channel thru this interview, as I’m a long time follower or Pastor Wolfmueller, and now of you. God Bless!
Love the conversation.
Thank you for sharing this conversation! I always struggle to explain baptism clearly to my non- Lutheran friends. But thankfully, while I don't understand it all, I hold fast to God's promise in 1 Peter 3:21 and the baptism I received at just 6 days old. Anyway, thanks again for the convo which has helped me to better understand and equipped me to better explain baptism!
Thanks for watching & supporting. Here is a link to a vlog that walks through the baptism passages … have a blessed day: ruclips.net/video/ulvtZOm0bMI/видео.html
Flame, i love what you are doing! Keep up the epic awesome work!
Thx Kurt!
This was absolutely awesome to watch and brings such clarity. Thank you for this help-now I have something to point my Evangelical friends to!!! Now to “win and argument “ but to bring clarity and peace to their faith!!! Amen.
Thanks for watching. Here is another vlog on baptism that talks about by going through the many scriptures. Have a blessed day: ruclips.net/video/ulvtZOm0bMI/видео.html
Always love when my pastor (Jason from Being Lutheran) gets a shout out as one of the homies! 😂❤
Haha…it’s only right! 🤣 Thx for posting! Truly!
I too am an ex-Reformed Baptist. I am beginning to see the value of baptism in my limited understanding of Lutheranism. However one aspect that I have yet to understand is what is the theology of those who are baptized, but leave the faith never to return? As a Reformed Baptist, it is simple - they were deceiving themselves and were never truly saved. If "baptism saves" then how to understand those who are baptized but leave and never return?
Thanks for sharing that. Great question. As a Lutheran and in lockstep with the Patristics as well as scripture, I believe ppl can walk away from their faith. However, if that person returns to Christ, they do not need to get baptized a second time. Due to baptism being God’s work. They can simply return to the benefits of their baptism. Much more can be said. I digress.
@@ExtraNosAcademy thanks for that. Do you have any literature or media you recommend to help me better understand?
@@kboonzaa ruclips.net/video/qTC-1D-oVUI/видео.html
Great convo bro because the lack of understand and education of some believers dont understanding this type of convo
I personally am reformed Presbyterian by category. This conversation has been very interesting and a blessing to me. Thanks for the conversation and the song!
I’m glad you’re tapped in! Do you have any specific questions?
@@ExtraNosAcademy I do, considering Luther’s Bondage of the will (please correct me if I’m wrong). If the will is in bondage to sin and at baptism we are changed. The old Adam dies and the new Adam rises. This change is significant yet I still cannot wrap my mind around how someone can walk away from that change. I think when it comes to baptism I’m hearing you loud and clear. I just can’t understand the ability to lose faith from such a change.
@@ExtraNosAcademy Also, do you know how to find an orthodox Lutheran church in your area? Is there a website or group of specific Lutheran churches to look for. Example being you have PCA and PCUSA. One is different than the other, are there distinctions like that among Lutherans?
A brother who was very influential in my salvation. Preaching the gospel to me and showing me the love of Christ. First gave me a flame album in 2004. Being from Philly and in the middle of my State property/ Roc-a-fella era of Rap. I thought it was the corniest rap I ever heard and threw the CD 💿 in the 🗑 trash !! A couple of years later in 2006 when I finally got saved. I went back and started listening to flame again and he became my favorite Christian rapper. And I was listening to a lot of Shai Linne and lamp mode back then too. But flame was the first one who helped me understand limited atonement in his first album. Listening to that it finally clicked and I excepted the doctrine of particular redemption for the first time. Now come on flame 🔥 come on brother !! You mean to tell me that 18 years in the reformed church and you never read or listen to R.C. Sproul’s “What Is Reformed Theology” or back then the book was still called “Grace Unknown”. The very beginning of the book. In the section on sola Fide/ Faith Alone. One of the first things RC Sproul talks about is Luthers reformation breakthrough. An alien righteousness, Extra Nos, and simul iustus et peccator, simultaneously being saint and sinner at the same time. I knew about that stuff my first year being saved as a reformed Calvinist. Because I liked that doctrine so much I went on to read more stuff from Luther “the bondage of the will”, “The Augsburg apology”, “The smackald articles”, The whole book of Concorde. Philipp Melanchthon’s loci communis. Gerhard o forde "The Theology Of the Cross" And my favorite Lutheran book by CFW Walther “the proper distinction between law and Gospel”. Martin Chemnitz “examination of the council of Trent” and “the two natures of Christ”. I just find it hard to believe that you never knew about this stuff in the Reformd circles. It was one of the first things I learned being catholic, evangelical, and reformed !! I read more of Luther back then when I first got saved before I even opened John Calvin’s “Institutes of the Christian religion”. It sounds like to me you were in a very very weird reformed Baptist Church from the things you are saying here on this video. And I just feel bad for you that you were in such a weird church and never got none of this foundational stuff, if you really are telling the truth and never even heard of “extra NOS” your whole time being reformed. I really don’t believe you.. I think you are exaggerating if I’m wrong please let me know? As for me and I thought the same for all Reformd people. The first thing I learned was Justification by Faith Alone, a historical objective redemption, “Alien 👽 Righteousness”, that is found “Extra Nos” outside of our selves, and the proper distinction between the law and the gospel. I learned all that stuff in the first book I ever read from RC Sproul called “what is reformed theology”. And the different views of the Real Presence between Luther and Calvin on in the sacraments. My first year of being saved as a Reformed Calvinist. That’s why I find it hard to believe you never heard of none of the stuff it’s foundational the fundamental to Reformd theology. We are “Catholic” because of Athanasius, Anselm, and Augustine, “evangelical” because of Luther, Philipp Melanchthon, and Chemnitz, reformed because of Calvin, John Knox, Theodore Baeza, and of course RC Sproul lol 😂 we are just dwarfs standing on the shoulders of giants !! I thought everybody who was reform held to the orthodox historical views of the church.
Thanks for posting. I appreciate the love and support over the years. Truly. No exaggeration here my friend. Nor do I need to defend my experience. He who has an ear, let him hear. Happy Sunday. God’s peace.
Wow !! is this really flame 🔥? I’ve been leaving comments for you all over RUclips. I didn’t think you would actually reach back. That’s amazing to me brother. I’m not asking you to defend your experience. I just really can’t even comprehend you the one I looked up to and gleaned most of my theological insight from over the early years. Never even heard of these fundamental doctrines, such as alien 👽 righteousness, extra NOS, outside of ourselves, and the proper distinction between law and gospel. Like I said up above it was the first thing I learned being a reformed Calvinist before I even started digging into the tulip 🌷 My mentor and pastor is a Reformed Baptist as well and he is always recommending Lutheran books to me. I guess I just thought it was part of our catholic, evangelical, reformed, Church history. I really recommend that book by RC Sproul “what is reform theology”. Even though you’re full-blown Lutheran now I know you gotta still love Sproul come on bro? Grace and peace and happy Lords day to you as well my friend !! PS this is my mentor’s RUclips channel. He is a Reformed Baptist who is very much into Lutheran theology people want me the book of Concord for a Christmas present. Check him out especially his teachings on justification by faith alone and catholic, evangelical, and reformed. ruclips.net/video/95I08bse_oU/видео.html
@@jessegarvey3928 Salute. Thanks for your reply. I’m very familiar with Sproul’s work. Simply put, I do not see Reformed theology, as a whole, in scripture. I’ve read more than you can imagine from dead and living Reformed writers. I simply disagree based on biblical grounds. I honor the Reformed camp as my family in Christ. I’m grateful for my 18 years in that space. Yet, I can not, with a clear conscience, support a set of teachings I do not find in scripture. Again, respectfully. Thanks for posting, though. God’s peace.
ruclips.net/video/ydKRG0868gE/видео.html @7:25 to 9:02 homie!!
This was so good!!
Thanks for watching!
Absolutely Dope!!!! frfr!!!! 👏🏾 Very Informative!!! I'm glad you doing this!!!! Much needed!!!!
Why thank you.
The Point of View of Other Denominations about Baptism is more on the basis of obedience as in a public confession of faith that Jesus Died for our sins and believe in his promise that we are saved by faith that Jesus is our saviour.....
but it is an interesting concept how you guys view it very differently which I feel it's not wrong but I can't wrap my brain on it it's a struggle indeed but I feel you guys for some reason are not in the wrong but for me it's hard to understand...
Either Way God Bless You All this was an interesting topic
I know that John The Babtist express Baptism as an act of repentance as Repent and be baptized...
but also I still can't wrap my brain on your beliefs on infant baptism as well but again I feel you guys are not on the wrong about that idea
@@faceduro6719 hey! thanks for the reply. We recently did a video on infant baptism. If you have a second, check it out .. it might help ... ruclips.net/video/xUl2k44wMRc/видео.html
Also ... the other link I gave is directly about 'infant baptism' but here is a link from a pastor that delves into our view of Baptism overall - ruclips.net/video/ulvtZOm0bMI/видео.html . Hope these help. God bless
@@faceduro6719 the biggest reason many people have a challenge with it is they still think it’s a person’s work and in reality God works this in us. The Holy Spirit converts us and does not require a academic understanding of the faith being worked in us
The “Reformed” Baptist tradition is so odd and really tend to contradict themselves when it comes to the doctrine of infant baptism, not all, but speaking from experience.
Jesus Christ did everything as an example unto us so shouldn’t we want to be baptized
The question is what is baptism? What does the Bible say about it? That God delivers grace and forgiveness through it. Acts 22:16
[16] And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
Acts 2:37-38
[37] Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” [38] And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Baptism is tied to salvation. A work of God. Not us.
Thx for your interaction!
@@ExtraNosAcademy I’m baptized in Jesus Christ name
@@ExtraNosAcademy amen
I come from a Lutheran background and have listened to many of the ministers that appear on the Issues etc. program.
I've read through the whole Book of Concord and, of course, the Scriptures. I have also read through the doctrinal stances of the various (and many) Lutheran denominations.
The problem I see in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod phraseology is that it is stated that Baptism is Necessary. And then, the pastors of the LCMS (at least, those to whom I have listened) go on to say something like the following.
"Baptism is necessary for salvation. But, there are exceptions. Some are saved without it."
Confusing.
So, according to these assertions, Baptism is necessary for salvation (except, when it is not). This brings me to a place where, in a very real sense, it is hard for me to understand how Baptism is not a synergistic God/human work.
My Lutheran grandfather fanatically held the position that he must get his and his community's children baptized. Without it, they could not be saved. "It is necessary and efficacious."
I understand that the: the work performed in Baptism is not of the work of the baptized.
The baptized are totally passive.
I have never heard of a self-baptism.
But, even though that is true, my grandfather's work was work, pure and simple. It was something he did. He did it to save people. He believed that if he (or someone else) did not get the baptism done, and the unbaptized child died, the lack of that Baptism and the lack of his effort to get it done meant the lack of salvation for that child. Because, Baptism is necessary.
I do agree with the Lutheran stance that it is Biblically of secondary importance to think of Baptism as a testimony; a testimony the baptized gives of his faith.
Instead, it should be taught as a sacrament, God's promise given.
I can look back at my Baptism and think God has spoken to me in a very sacramental (Word plus element) way that he has marked me as his own. I am marked with the death of Jesus in a very experiential way.
Christ's death, God says in Baptism, is not just a long-long-time-ago happening, but a a day to day reality. This is because it is his message to me that I have a new identity in Christ.
It is true I confessed his salvatory work in me when I was baptized in front of the church family, my friends and relatives. But the Biblical concept is more than just a testimony of the baptized to those witnessing it.
Instead, it is the Word of the Gospel in and with physical elements applied to me. God has said that Jesus' death is for me. Jesus' resurrection is mine.
I can remember that at baptism God put his Word of grace and salvation (found only in his Son) on me! Specifically on me.
To me, my Baptism is kind of like the wedding band I wear. I look at it and remember (even when she is not present) that my wife really did tell me that she would love, honor and cherish me (at least) until death do we part. In that way her promise is always with me.
In Baptism, I find myself aware of God's promise always with me. God did something. He committed himself to me when I believed on Jesus. I remember that that faith came to be mine because of what the Holy Spirit had done and is doing. At Baptism all of this becomes more than a stance and concept. It is my identity in a whole new way.
Maybe a little Lutheran Satire will help you understand ... ruclips.net/video/6p7a-kTcSZo/видео.html
Well, what does the Scriptures say? Mark 16:16 sums it up. [Jesus said] "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Only unbelief condemns. Hearing the full promises of God delivered to us in the full message of the Gospel would want anyone who heard it for the first time to immediately want to be baptized into Christ. Think of the eunuch in Acts 9:6 (STOP THE CHARIOT! WHAT IS TO PREVENT ME FROM GETTING BAPTIZED?), Saul/Paul in Acts 9:18 regains his sight and is immediately baptized, Lydia has herself and her entire household baptized in Acts 16:15, Paul reiterates his immediate baptism in Acts 22:16, and the jailer in Acts 16:33 getting baptized within the same hour of learning what he must do do be saved; him and his household.
Jesus is a master wordsmith. I do not believe there is a Biblical answer to "what happens if you don't get baptized" in regards to salvation. It's certainly possible, but to what extent? It's clearly only unbelief that damns you The thief on the cross is an example that people will use, but we assume that the thief wasn't baptized by John. All that to say, I would rather not test Scripture and believe the promises delivered in it. Not to mention the certainty I have in the Baptism given to me by "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world". Satan can never take that away from the believer.
Good book on this is Rock & Sand - Fr. Josiah Trentham.
Good stuff Flame thanks for the insight. I m just wondering what southside rabbi think about this topic.
While not a baptism passage, on the night of His betrayal, Jesus took off His outer garments, filled basins and began to wash disciples feet. Peter, (likely speaking for the others as well) exclaims Lord, you will never wash my feet, then Jesus replied, if I do not wash you , you have no share in me, then Peter exclaims then wash all of me, Jesus then says you are washed (purified by Jesus teaching but, for Passover also) only your feet need cleaning.
My take away was A. I need to be cleaned by Jesus…not the other way around,. B. Nor I (like Peter,) get to demand how Jesus will do His work the Father sent Him to do. I do not get to give permission, demand, nor declare how God sends salvation to me. I am saved by faith through grace of God, but He told us in scripture how He will do it, we do not have to know how’s…we have to believe the why…to have a share in Him. Meddlesome Lutherans’ and Holy Spirit brought me out of evangelbaptocostalmethodism and into confessional Lutheranism. The baptismal versus, along with communion passages, along with John 13 washing of disciples feet, helped me understand clearly Christ is doing the work, not me. He does not need my help, but is clear I need to help my neighbors. Thank you for this discussion all of you. A rapping Lutheran…now I have seen it all…loved the Extra Nos album and many of your Calvinist ones previously. Anyone able to rap and fit in hypostatic union…has skills
Let’s go!!!!
Let’s goooo!!! You killed it bro bro!
Thanks for this conversation, very informative and I have a question 🙋🏿♂️...
In addition to seeing baptism as a gift that saves are you saying that Christians who have not been baptised with this knowledge need to do it again with the new knowledge?
Or is it a matter of simply now accepting what was done as the gift.
(I personally don't like the idea of getting re-baptised but thought it best to ask as I'm sure many will be wondering this.)
Bonus question: are you saying that your not saved until you're baptised with this knowledge?
Great question. 1st pt … no we wouldn’t say “be rebaptized b/c u have knowledge now.” We would proclaim Gods word is true … He promised it & it’s *not tied to a mental achievement of one.
2nd pt … we acknowledge God can save however He wishes. So one can be saved a part from it. But denying a gift & command from God is an issue that does show if one’s faith is tied to the promises of God or in self
@@WittenbergProject thanks for this response, it's very helpful and balanced!
I have previously discussed this topic at length with somone from a church called ICOC who make it a firm salvation issue that is, in their view, I'm not yet saved!
II could not come over to their side due to other passages that allowed for salvation without baptism but again your conversation and clarification puts the emphasis on the gift to be received. I particularly appreciated the baby in the womb analogy.
Thanks again!
@@Konarali if interested. Here is a series we did with flame. Not solely on baptism but more so our tradition: ruclips.net/p/PLdqyBUQTdlhiI435gH-nEIihQxm1Hg3zq
A good way to think about this is like a birthing. The baby doesn't add anything to the birth, either by knowledge or assent. God "births" new Christians in Holy Baptism, and this is true even if the baptism happens in a church that doesn't confess the salvific nature of the baptism. By being baptized in the triune Name of God, we Christians receive His Name and everything that goes along with it, being joined into Christ's death and resurrection, and into the Kingdom of God. And, like all His promises, we receive them through trust because He is the one giving them. Baptism is the personal delivery of the promise "to YOU, the one who just got washed and reborn."
Thanks for posting.
No, you are only baptized once. Now you know what your baptism is.
As mentioned in the vid, a person can be saved apart from baptized. Check out my project Word And Water. I cover a lot on there, too. Thanks!
Great video! Also, where can one get the Evangelical Catholic sweatshirt?
Thanks so much! I appreciate you watching! Here ya go: www.zazzle.com/og_lutheran_hoodie-235547258415612135
Nicodemus had plenty of faith "we know (positively know) that you... come from God for no man can do these things you do unless God is with him" (Jn.3).
Though he had faith, he still was not born again. Proof that one is not saved at the point of faith.
Regarding Paul, when Jesus appears to him on the road, he now "believes on the Lord," but Jesus did not save Paul as He did the thief on the cross.
Instead he instructs Paul to go into the city and there it will be told you what you MUST do.
"For it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them who are lost."
When Ananias arrives and finds Paul on his knees, he says "arise and be baptized washing away your sins."
If we are saved by faith only, why was Paul's sins not forgiven when he first believed?
Instead, Paul needed to be born again of water and Spirit. When Paul was baptized, is when he was born again.
Man I have been gleaning from your music and videos like this for a while now. I love the insight although I don’t yet call myself lutheran but I think the Lutheran faith bring a lot to the table. One thing I heard yesterday is that the phrase Christ alone is something that Luther invented. I didn’t agree with it. However I’m humbling asking is the Lutheran faith just another man made doctrine?
I love the insight though and I haven’t heard anything that I can’t agree with.
Thx for posting, for enjoying the insights, and the content!
1. Correct, the notion of faith alone Luther drew from the Apostle Paul and other early church fathers. He simply helped recover the truth of it and helped coin the terminology.
2. Luther never wanted ppl to be named after him. He was against it. Yet, it was a derogatory nickname given to his supporters by those who opposed him. And the name stuck.
3. No, Lutheranism is not a “man made doctrine”. Above all, Luther and Confessional Lutherans uphold the word of God. Our aim is to say only what scripture says and not to speculate nor say what scripture has not said. We do not claim to have all the answers. A humility I appreciate about Lutherans.
Great interview. What is the music starting at 41:32 during the outro? Is that in Word and Water?
Yep, Word And Water. Thx for asking!
@@ExtraNosAcademy Thank you!
Most important question: where are the hoodies from?
Lol, indeed! Here ya go: extra-nos.myshopify.com/
Lex’s hoodies are available from his site. Search Wittenberg Project on RUclips.
Thanks bro!
Some questions, to help me understand:
1: Are you saying that everyone who gets baptized is saved? Even if they get baptized without faith? For example, if my Grandpa hates God, doesn't believe in Jesus, but gets baptized, will he be guaranteed salvation and faith? On one end I'm hearing you say that baptism is a gift, and he can give it to people who can't intellectually think through belief. On the other end, we see clear passages where faith is required for salvation. (Not baptism OR faith, but faith is a requirement) so curious how you would handle a situation like this.
2: Assuming that you do believe everyone who gets baptized is saved, including infants, we do see a lot of people later in life, that were baptized, that choose not to live for the Lord, are you just saying all of those people just made a conscious choice, with the Holy Spirit inside of them, they all made a choice to walk away? And they lost their salvation?
Just trying to understand your perspective
1. First thing we'd have to state is that we 'Lutherans' believe in apostasy and the ability of a person to shipwreck their faith. The notion that one can be saved and laer reject God's free gift. So to answer your question, we'd say that in Baptism God grants His gifts of mercy, grace, faith, and the Holy Spirit is given (Acts 2) ... but a person can reject his free gift. So your comment of "baptized w/o faith" would be a rejection of the gifts delivered by God in the baptism. Since in the case of the grandparent you mentioned. In the baptism God promises are still present, but his harden heart would reject the gifts.
2. I think I covered this in part 1.
@@WittenbergProject thanks for the clarification!
@@AndroidDigest no worries. Thanks for the question & engaging the video.
ruclips.net/video/qTC-1D-oVUI/видео.html
Great stuff. Thank you for this video.
I was just wondering where can i get the same hodie as the guy on the right (evangelical catholic) ?
If someone would drop the link, that would be nice.
Yeah. Me, too, please! I like it... where from?
Thanks!
Great conversation from your friendly neighborhood Presbyterian… 🤓
You are in a whole new level (flame) ima get confused with all this....
You’re smarter than you give yourself credit for. As you slowly walk through things you’ll find yourself grasping it more and more. Enjoy the process. Thanks for posting bro bro! 🫡
(To me) it's getting more complicated to (be) a Christian. Oops!
@@MrSierra1st Oh, it doesn’t take being able to explain these things to be a Christian. Those are two different things. Yet, we all should know a bit about what we believe and why we believe it. Make sense?
@@ExtraNosAcademy first two sentences make sense or should say I can understand and agree (thank you for clearing that up) the third I kinda understand.... so in other words study the [bible]? Yei or nay
In this view, would the unbaptized babies/disabled receive salvation? The pastor mentioned that the gift of salvation can only come through God given means of grace and flame mentioned that appealing to Gods character isn’t sufficient to excuse salvation being given to the mentally incapable apart from a God given means of grace.
Also does John 3:8 tie into this conversation at all? It seems to suggest that it is difficult to point to a particular instance in regards to spiritual birth.
Yes! To your 1st question. Please remember nobody is saying “Sola baptism” or only baptism.
Hearing Gods word is a means grace. God is the one that works through any & all means. And scripture proclaims that in baptism He does x, y, z. So we shouldn’t deny what God promises objectly through baptism.
@@mattsolomon8189 great question. But we can not ignore John 3:5 as well
Yes the Spirit goes where He wishes, but should one bank assurance on the randomness of the wind rather than the definite promises tied to baptism.
One pointing to the wind will still have doubts and questions … rather than 100% being able to say “I was baptized & everything God promised is true”
Help me reconcile John 3:5 and 3:8. You would say Jesus is essentially saying baptism saves you in John 3:5 right? But then in 3:8 he is saying no one can really pinpoint salvation? If you agree with my oversimplified summary, please reconcile those two verses. If you are not with those summaries please summarize those verses in the most basic form and explain their relationship.
@@mattsolomon8189 I would say, verse 8 is clarifying vs 5 more. That many do not see how water & word can do such great things. Literally renewing one & making them “born again”.
To explain it, Jesus states the Spirits moves as He wishes (but is talking directly about water & Spirit).
The truth imo would be both. Christ is talking about Spirit doing great things with water & word and supports that with the truth that the Spirit moves many ways
The conservative evangelical hermeneutic often acts as if the Bible is accidentally contradicting itself, but not substantially contradicting itself; therefore, it is up to us to solve the accidental contradictions. So theories are invented to solve them: spirit baptism, baptism as a metaphor, etc. The Lutheran hermeneutic is nearly identical to the conservative evangelical hermeneutic, except that it denies the existence of accidental contradictions. The notion of accidental contradictions makes the Holy Spirit out to be sloppy in His work of inspiration, with the Bible being unclear not merely because it sometimes goes over our heads (we've all been there when reading Revelation) but because the Word of God is being a bit misleading in its phrasing of certain concepts. No! Reject such nonsense. Paul meant to write what he wrote the way he wrote it, and the Holy Spirit meant him to write what he wrote the way he wrote it, and nothing was written to test our fealty to another thing that was written.
Dang I'm way behind....
Lutherans?
Yezzir!
Yeah I watched the video and shared it with my other pastor friends still disagree with stuff but I take my comment off because Bible says
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, arguments about genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the Law. These things are useless and worthless. I’m Wesleyan we believe in being saved baptized and also entirely sanctified as John Wesley says a man of God . there was things I agreed and things I disagreed on . But your still sharing the gospel and that’s what counts .so as a Christian brother in Christ I apologize . flame I still love your music . right now I’m getting hate from a ton of people cause I’m a pastor and I do christian punk pop and people are saying I’m going to hell that it’s devils music .
Thanks for posting. To show that you are listening, at least articulate back what our point is. This will help me determine if you’re paying attention or simply posting your view. Thanks.
serious question ... did you even watch the video? I ask b/c we discussed this numerous times throughout the video
I also agree we receive gifts I agree also on him talking about babies believe
@@ExtraNosAcademy I did watch it many times to try to understand . And I apologized . I will always listen to flame music because he has a song that has nf on it and that song really helped me get through a hard place .
@UCGqTvJucdN2It8T4UG2FJcw Luke 9:50 is an example of ppl not Apostles sharing Gods word. But this argument basis doesn’t address the topic of baptism. And Roman Church viewed our confession on baptism & did not refute it in the Augsburg confession
Baptism is an outward expression of an inward transformation!it does not save you alone my brothers! Jesus said in John 3 to get into the kingdom we simply believe! Read Romans 10:9! The thief on the cross was saved( he never even hit the water). We so need the baptism of the Holy Spirit to help us not use logic in trying to interpret the scriptures! See John 16:13
Thanks for posting. Respectfully, it’s apparent you’re only interested in repeating typical American thoughts on the matter. Also it’s apparent that you did not watch the video or listen to my EP Word And Water. If you had, you’d at least engage what we said about the matters you brought up. Yet, you’re only raising issues we addressed already. If you’re really interested you should ask questions. If not, enjoy your day. God’s peace.
Lutheran aren't ancient my dude. Martin Luther was a Jew hating Catholic from the 16th century. Jesus and his apostles were alive 2,000 years ago, not 500-600 years ago. Do you know what church is ancient and was around when the apostles we're alive? And who gave that church the power of Apostolic Succession from Jesus, who gave it to Pete "The Rock"? Your theology is missing 1500 years bro. Your being mislead. I hope you find the true faith. God bless. 😁🙏🏻🤍✝️
Ur funny my man. I think it’s obvious that when “ancient faith” is talked about … the context is referencing ppl holding on to teachings that are found in church fathers.
If you look at our confession, the main premise is “everything we hold ties to the historic church” and then it lays out references too.
Seems you just here to pick a fight.
@@WittenbergProject just pointing out main points about Lutheranism that is horribly wrong. People who follow his "church" are in trouble. We're here to save souls, not sugar coat the Truth. If you really love people, tell them the truth and don't spread false teachings from the Lutheran church. You cant pick some things you like about baptist, some from Lutheranism, some from Catholicism and make up your own God. You wouldn't tell you son it's okay to believe stuff from a fake church, so why are you spreading false teachings from the Lutheran church to people online? You have to understand what your doing from a higher perspective. Not just trying to make a cool video with a pastor to hear his stuff. Would you do a video with a Morman who thinks you can become your own god and get your own planet and people??? Just to hear there false views and because there nice? Or would you time be better spent showing people the Real Truth from the original Church fathers and why the One Church that holds to these teachings, traditions doctrine is the church for them. The Bible has all the books, letter and scriptures. And the Catholic Catechism book has all the dogmas and interpretations one needs to have a deep belief and understanding of Christianity. Getting the "opinions or interpretations" from random pastors of today is silly. Go to another Lutheran church in that same city and that pastor will disagree on some of the teachings. They have no authority. That's why there is over 40,000 Protestant churches. They all are full of Pride and think THEY are the only one who REALLY understands the Bible and Christianity. It's silly when you see the big picture. God bless.
@@JesusChurchBible so … this talk was about what God does in baptism … what did u want to point out that was wrong? You disagree that God works & washes sin away in baptism?