Bloodborne Fear the Old Lore - The Suspicious Beggar & The Value of Man
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- In this episode of Fear the Old Lore, we examine the Suspicious Beggar, his abhorrent transformation, and what it really means to be human in a game like Bloodborne.
Music: Great Grey Wolf Sif's Theme from Dark Souls 1
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Japanese to English Retranslations of Bloodborne's text:
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"I didn't ask for this!"
I really like this line in particular. There are hunters who enjoy and revel in the hunt. They willingly chose the life of a killer, but not the beggar, he didn't ask for this life.
I ignored him on my first playthrough, because he's obviously sus, every consecutive playthrough I sent him to Iosefka cause I knew she'd handle it, so I missed out on his dialogue for the longest time. Great character.
That is actually worth considering, yeah. We've no reason to think he's killing for any reason other than he's a beast, and that's not a choice of his, it's something that was done to him, by the Healing Church no less. Then along comes a Hunter of all things, who traditionally are in the employ of the Healing Church, trying to kill him for what the Church itself did to him
It'd be kind of like if the government infected thousands of people with a brain parasite that makes them go on killing sprees, then creates a specialised military task force for the express purpose of going and killing those people. If you were one of the infected you'd probably resent that task force on moral grounds when they came after you
Adam Jensen aproves
to be honest, Beggar doesn't look like ordinary beast, he definitely in another state of evolution. He can speak on beast form and not attacking the hunter first.
The suspicious beggar transforms into an abhorrent beast from what I read on the wiki, but him retaining a small portion of his humanity and still being able to talk even in his beast from is interesting to say the least lil
Judging by his skin tone and seemingly foreign way of talking about yharnamites. I assume he may be from Loran. Also a lot of the bosses in that area are abhorrent and dark beasts and similar enemies. Maybe he’s learned how to control his abilities sort of like a titan in aot.
@@mortalmannequin4091 i see how he seems like someone from Loran, but, isn't the city buried underground, and dead? All there is in the Chalice are beasts and no sight of humans. Perhaps he's a beast that managed to get back into his human self? Or maybe he just has those Loran genetics on him and survived.
To be honest? Were you intending to lie before writing that?! I'm reporting this to the youtube comment police.
The way I interpreted it, was that all of the other beasts became incoherent monsters because they refused to acknowledge their innate capacity for violence. Whereas the Beggar was well aware of his beasthood, and chose to embrace it. This probably allowed him to retain conciousness, and he remained a sapient, coherent being who was fully aware of his need/want for violence and wanton destruction.
The quote from Master Willem “Evolution without courage will be the ruin of our race.” I think it was specifically talking about eyes and being able to see the true reality.
We know the job of Rom was to hide the true reality from people to see, cause it’s too much to handle based on a note we find: “The spider hides all manner of rituals, certain to reveal nothing, for true enlightenment need not to be shared.” I think she was doing that on purpose cause we know the Great Ones are sympathetic in spirit, and Rom was friendly to us if we don’t attack her.
When we kill Rom and the true reality reveal itself, from that point basically everything goes downhill. We can see people we sent to Oedon Chapel are all starting to go crazy. Not only that this pretty much happens to the whole town, the doors we used to knock, they all stop responding. People don’t have the courage to see reality as it is, so Rom was protecting them.
Master Willem saw our evolution in having more eyes, and indeed, evolution without courage was the downfall of Yharnam.
Rom was vacuous tho. It is implied that the Great one she communed with put her in that position (according to Micolash, it was Kos) by literally erasing her personality, thus effectively turning her into a spider. A tool, if you will.
On a different note, some people argue that, since contact with the eldritch truth makes most people go mad (those who don't have enough courage maybe?), that explains why you find some corpses with frenzied coldblood and madman's knowledge.
Frenzied coldblood is dropped by those who stumbled upon the truth but couldn't handle it (much like the Frenzy status effect)
Madman's knowledge is dropped by those who are "blessed" with the truth, and accept it but go mad with the realization.
I mostly see the Beggar's rants as the frustrated and desperate justifications of a pitiful and unfortunate creature. His attempts at trying to say that hunter's are hypocrites, and nothing more than killers themselves is to me an attempt at rationalizing his own actions. It's like a prisoner that was placed on death row because they murdered several children saying that everybody is a little fucked up. Nobody asked to be born the way they are, but for the good of all, some have to be put down due to their very nature and essence. His dialogue is interesting none the less as it implies some people can retain their sapience and understanding past beast transformation.
👏👏
Still, he's not wrong.
The people of Yharnam were treated as guinea pigs and literal sacrifices in order to pursue the insane ideology of a few in power. Then when things got out of hand, a crew of trained killers were organized to put down those people who were scarred by that victimization.
It doesn't excuse the beggar's actions (maybe, I've never been transformed into a sentient beast before, doesn't seem good for the brain). But the beggar is one of the only characters seeking any kind of reprisal, however misguided his attempts may be. He's a tragic figure in that sense. He's one of the few people who retained enough sanity that he could even benefit from seeking justice yet his own actions push him into an unsympathetic position.
@@rainbowkrampus Laurence and the church, (well, mostly Laurence) didn't anticipate this would get any worse. He truly believed his cause was to actively help others, unlike Willem who simply sat at his porch hoarding all knowledge or insight and transcend a select few. Imagine your local university found the cure for cancer but the professor wouldn't even want the world to know about it. One needed the courage to evolve and so Laurence set out his own path and make active changes with the help of those around him. We can see how prosperous Yharnam, the School of Mensis, and the Cathedral were and there was a point that everything looks like all was going well and even beyond. Just imagine walking in the streets of Yharnam or the halls of the School of Mensis at their prime, where people are still people and the concept of beasts was unheard of. You would think that you did humanity a service. It just things aren't all that it seems if it's too good to be true.
Takes one to know one right? He's no saint by any means, but he isn't wrong either.
The best "understanding Bloodborne's endings" video doesn't even have that idea in the title - I commend your subtlety
6:51
hunter: “a hoonter must hoont”
Djura: “so you have chosen death”
Some Gnostics believed that in order to transcend the fallen reality, they would have to become like God. Unfettered by earthly morality. Held back only by their own will and choice. Only then would they be a little more like God, able to kill without thinking, to destroy without consideration, and perhaps closer to being able to create with the same readiness.
Of course, there were other Gnostics who believed them to be falling to their beastly instincts. Creating excuses for themselves to gather power through, which only served to trap them within the prison of flesh and matter further.
Personally, I lean with the side of the later group when it comes to judging the beggar. Perhaps there will be no Evolution without Courage, but can we really call him courageous? What strength of character does it take to kill innocents and consume their flesh? Perhaps he gains insight, or blood echoes, from doing this, but there exist many types of Beast a courageous monster could feed on near Oedon chapel. Ones without the minds to pursue Evolution or the Eldritch Truth. In the end, the Suspicious Beggar made the most cowardly choice he could: to prey upon those who were weak enough they couldn't defend themselves, even when they could have gotten further through more dangerous prey. He could have been the curious case of an Abhorrent Beast using its monstrosity to help others in his own search for power, or whatever sick fulfillment he was looking for. But he was this. This is what this nascent Great One decided to make himself into: A monster with little to no redeeming qualities.
Where can i learn more about the Gnostics?
@@user-zp8kj2cl9g gnosticism is experiencing a bit of a revival in the modern day, or at least it's ideas are finding more mainstream use in everything from books to tv to movies to videogames. You can find the basics of christian gnosticism by googling and the Wikipedia page on the topic isn't a bad jumping off point
I love Iosefka's questline too. First time I did it was when I decided to do an arcane run, so I decided to help all the arcane related NPCs. If the scourge of beasts is bad, then isn't the search of these Insight/Arcane/Contact NPCs good? It was the Church of Healing that brought the old blood and turned everyone into beasts, so doesn't that make Master Willem right? As I was doing the astral tower and exploring the chalice dungeons with that character, it got me thinking a lot. The Church turned people into beasts but so did Master Willem, Lady Maria and the fake doctor, even though they had completely different motives. In truth, humans have always been beasts long before the plague arrived, and perhaps that's the true scourge of beasts. That's the true "courage" that note about humanity's downfall refers to, or at least that's how I interpret it.
After doing that run, it got me thinking about real world science, how every advance we make is accompanied by greed and abuse, and how we as a society are also victim to that same truth: Evolution without courage will be the downfall of us. I remember I put a message on Iosefka's door at the start of the run saying something like "metamorphosis ahead", and now I put that note back on all subsequent characters I made.
I’m so glad someone is putting out quality bloodborne content. Thank you so much
I'm glad to see a video about the Suspicious Beggar. He's one of my favourite encounters in the game and the moment where you fight him in his beast form is iconic. First the appearance of the abhorrent beast is amazing, secondly his voice is cool, third the fact he's able to stay conscious during his transformation and talk, he's the only beast besides Ludwig who's done that. And finally his dialogue. Although he's the one doing harm to others, he also exposes the hunters for being as beastly as the beasts themselves, and after the several encounters the player had (Gascoigne, several hostile npc hunters who attacked us, dialogue with Djura, DLC hunters), we are enclined to agree with him, although we are not necessarily evil ourselves. He sounds furious yet desperate by his condition and the state of the city. When he dies, he sounds even more desperate by saying everyone in the end is a beast. This dialogue and the one you get from Djura where he say "it's you, you're the beast. Can't you see what you're doing ? It's utter madness." are moments I will never forget.
Something else worth noting about the Suspicious Beggar is what he's wearing: the Harrowed Hood, and the Madman's Leggings. While's its possible that any conclusions drawn from these are specious, what different characters wear is often important in Miyazaki games.
The Harrowed Hood is associated specifically with a type of Church Hunter that would dress in beggar's clothing to find early signs of the scourge and root it out (or perhaps find them where there are none, implying that they would murder innocents). This headpiece also covers the eyes, and from the Eye of a Blood-Drunk Hunter description, we know that eyes turning to mush are a sign of the onset of the scourge, which hints at him being a beast.
The Madman's Leggings are worn by those who explored the labyrinth for the Healing Church, and became mad because of it. Perhaps he was exploring Loran for the Church, which is why he turns into a beast type that only occurs in the Loran Chalice Dungeons.
I'm not sure if him being a Tomb Prospector and a Harrowed Hunter are mutually exclusive, and they might be. I think that him being a Church Hunter is the far more fascinating option, and imo it gives him more right to judge us if he was once a Hunter as well.
Kinda reminds me of that line in Silent Hill 3. "Monsters? They look like monsters to you?"
I always interpreted the hunter's killings as those of mercy. The victims of the scourge are being tortured and warped into all manners of horrific monstrosities. To kill them is to free them. The beggar is just an evil murderer, slaughtering for greed and gluttony.
The hunters are an execution squad organized by the people who caused the transformations in the first place.
It doesn't seem like your typical hunter understands their full role in all this. So there can be some sympathy there in that regard.
But ultimately they're murdering victims of the depravity of groups like Byrgenwerth or the Choir.
The best analogy is if in Flint, Michigan the officials in Detroit had ordered the cops to roll through Flint and murder everyone to coverup the fact that city officials poisoned everyone. Only, the cops were lied to and told that the entire town had been taken over by gangs or something.
Nothing good comes from what the hunters do. Nothing good at all seems to come out of Yharnam. The most just act that occurs is when you, the player, roll up and kill the defenseless Willem to take his rune. That's how messed up the whole situation is.
This was Gehrman's stance on the hunt too, he viewed hunts as a chance to put people out of their misery, and didn't feel glad or amused by the thrill of the hunt.
With Gehrman specifically, Yes. Or at least that's what his philosophy around the hunt was, as stated by the item description on his gear. Every other hunter is anyone's guess.
Nah that's too far, don't blame the players, blame the game
The guy is a beast, beasts eat humans, it's like calling eagles murderers and assassins for eating fish and snakes
He's a sneaky little bitch I'll give you that
@@insertedgynamehere___969 based on gear and dialogue, Gehrman considers the hunt to be a dirge of farewell, putting to rest his prey; Eileen sees them as "nothing more than flesh-hungry beasts", but interestingly they are not her prey - she hunts hunters who succumbed to madness; Djura sees the hunt as "horrific", and sees the beasts for the humans they once were
I comment, like and add all these vids to a Bloodborne lore playlist because they're phenomenal.
I've always felt bad for the suspicious beggar. His transformation and power have ruined him, he's constantly starving but never sated, and emaciated like a wendigo. And when he yells, "i never asked for this!". I'm like 😥,😢😢
Thank you kindly. I'm glad you enjoyed it
I always interpreted it as that the beggar is talking more about the Hunters of the Healing Church than about the things you specifically do, since the Church's Hunters were used as a weapon of the Church to enforce their rule. I didn't see it so much as him trying to say that he's right to kill the people in the chapel, but more like "I may be wrong, but given everything the Church and its Hunters have done, do you really think you're better than me?" Like he kills for sustenance, but all a Hunter is is a killer in the employ of the Healing Church, and they aren't exactly clean-cut, in fact people live very much in fear of them. They go around ravenously engaging in acts of violence to enforce theocratic rule but then one beggar starts killing people for sustenance and suddenly HE'S a dangerous monster that needs to be put down. It would probably seem a bit rich
I wonder also if maybe the reason his dialogue changes is because he thinks you're only turning on him because he stopped giving you Beast Blood Pellets. Like he thought you'd been cooperating and he was paying you in Beast Blood Pellets because Hunters love that shit, then suddenly he can't pay up and you decide he's too dangerous to be left alive when you yourself were (he thinks) a willing accomplice all along, a base slave to your cravings, same as him. Maybe he sees you both as bad people, happy for people to die if it satisfies a need, but you've got a uniform and so think you have any kind of moral authority to kill him
I guess I see it kind of like a murderous drug dealer who'd been supplying a corrupt cop, then the cop decides to arrest him, so while they shoot it out he's just shouting "Fucking pigs!" and the like. Not so much as an ethical conundrum and more like just an expression of why he's pissed off at this situation beyond just having got into a fight
love this take
God, same, this character did more for me than most of more evident ones. I feel like the 'does old blood create beastly nature or REVEALS it?' is a big question in game - more bluntly shown by Caryll's Beast/Clawmark runes - and that whereas Djura realized that all beasts are men, beggar realized that all men are beasts. These are different statements but both are truthful. Beasts are friendly to men like Djura and his friends, then you have men that kill other men, even innocent ones. Clerics turning into the most awful beasts I always seen as metaphor for how fearing your animalistic impulses and repressing them leads you to snapping awfully... You know how humanity has mild consensus on that you need to be yourself and live with them in peace? But accepting your 'flaws' and accepting that you're literally a menace for your own species are also different, beggar is what happens when genuinely dangerous person accepts their nature. But there is no saying if accepting your impulses won't lead you to want to 'accept' more and you become worse and worse, so yeah no shit people like Choir and Schoo of Mensis said 'screw it, we are cursed by just BEING humans so lets find a way to cleanse ourselves from it altogether'.
Also interesting thing about beggar is how he works as a metaphor for when dangerous people are not allowed to seek any sort of help or else they will be exciled/arrested/killed/whatever on the spot, since lore mentions not only beasts were killed but even those that showed SIGNS of beasthood. All that attitude does is teaches these dangerous people to be more secretive and still commit evil from the shadows, because they need to be safe yet they cannot find help even if they WOULD like to be 'fixed'. Nobody would try to help him to learn to control himself if he just let people know that 'hey guys I think I want to eat people and it's getting out of hand' lol, but beasthood doesn't magically vanish because he has to hide it right? Raises some questions about how crime and being prone to it is treated in society and whether it REALLY protects anyone...
Nice video, congratulations!
Some discord friends of ours also like the Beggar as a character, and how in spite of being a filthy guy sounding like a muderer, he is presumably well aware of the nature of humanity, as shown in his dying line on how we all are "rancid beasts" inside, which is supported/hinted by descriptions like Beast Roar, Beast Claw, and Djura's dialogue.
Another theory I heard when discussing with said friends (Ashley, Cypher, Arybdis, and Herbert iirc) is how the Forbidden Woods are full of people who used to work for the Church, as hinted by some enemies wearing Surgical Long Gloves and the White Church attire set being found there. As suggested by said attire desc they were more researchers than actual surgeons, and were conducting experiments and possibly were dealers of Beast Blood Pellet, which at some point was banned by the Church. It is also supported by the bestiary saying that the outskirts of Yharnam are filled with people chased out of the city. Supposedly, the Beggar was one of these people. There is more to add to the theory but I think this is the main idea.
Once again, solid video.
Well, the Beggar *is* wearing the Harrowed Hood, which was used by some Church hunters to disguise themselves as beggars in order to eliminate those recently infected. Perhaps he was a Church hunter that was infected? In addition, he's wearing the Madman leggings and turns into an Abhorrent Beast, so he may have been infected inside the Chalice Dungeons.
Somehow I missed that he fucking barks when you startle him. Talk about a tip off.
I wouldn't leave my humanity behind and there is only one reason, I haven't seen the full spectrum of humanity's possibilities and abilities from a human point of view, transcending to something else would mean I will lose content and I hate losing content from a game
I would love to see more of this content. Interrogation of the Gothic and Cosmic horror tropes is something I'd love to see more of!
I liked this video. :)
The thing about the beggar is that the situation itself only has about one shade of grey to it. When I came upon him feasting on that family, having stripped their flesh to the very bone without removing their clothes, I assumed he had killed them. In retrospect, that one shade of grey is that perhaps they were already dead, and he was merely feasting on their bones. I'm inclined not to think that, though.
I also say that his dialogue isn't as impactful as it could be, because you can attack him there and then under the justification that he killed the family. Worth noting is the fact that most dead bodies do have their clothes on in bloodborne, and I think this was done to show that some people were still human or immune to infection even after death.
What I find most interesting about him, is that his beast type shows up again in the Ailing Loran Chalice dungeons as the Abhorrent Beast. They're like dark beasts that still have flesh. It makes me wonder just how old that beggar is, and if he was perhaps chased to Yharnam at one point or another. The whole video makes me think of the Constable's set description.
As far as the Miyazaki interview where he compares Sage Freke and Willem to the fake Iosefka... I think that kind of gives us his perspective on the ending. He's a fan of characters that want to push the boundaries of knowledge and man further, whether they use despicable methods or not.
As far as evolution goes, something that a lot of people don't realize is that evolution only happens to some of a species. The rest may never evolve or will evolve into something else entirely. That new form will be entirely suited to whatever provoked its evolution. Evolution is not a choice, it is brought on by the rigors of the world around us. Intentional or not, by giving the player/Hunter a choice in whether they evolve or not is placing too much power into our hands. It's also always smacked to me of being under what's ultimately a pretense asserted by a group of people who could not understand what they were dealing with.
The game gives us ultimate power over our destiny, and never gives a solid reason, a strong why, for choosing to become a Great One. It shows us repeatedly through the use of the weapons devised by the Hunters and the Church that humankind is more than capable of dealing with Great Ones. Only, instead of seeking to fight them off or to shut them out, the people in control of Yharnam, Byrgenwyrth, and the Church chose to embrace them as gods and beings that should be revered and emulated. Even though they could not comprehend what they sought to emulate.
We can see through examining Cainhurst and the Pthumerians that what the Great Ones intend for humanity is to use those of us imbued with the right kind of blood as a means to reproduce. The Pthumerian Queen is shown to be on the level of the Great Ones, since her consciousness persists forever.
I've said it many times and I'll say it again: Bloodborne is one of the best games ever made and this is just one of the many many reasons why
Completely agree
"he who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man"-Samuel johnson...I wonder if Miyazaki knew about that quote or took it into consideration during the making of this game cause it really fits with its themes...I feel like since this guys name is the "suspicious beggar" than he probably had an axe to grind with the Yharnamites after being on the fringes of society for so long.he clearly thinks that they should keep to themselves in one of his lines of dialogue. that makes me feel like he didnt care about transcending humanity but simply destroying and feeding off the ones that looked down on him in the past.he seems to be consumed with how the hunters think they are better than him (even though some are not) and doesnt have any endgame in mind past his own hunger.where as the player Hunter has choices and multiple outcomes..I dont think that necessarily makes us better than him, but there is atleast a goal in mind and one of them is to end the hunt no matter which end we as players choose.who knows,maybe if we get a BB2 we might find out that becoming a Great One helped things in the end....I doubt it,but maybe.hehe
It's 3 am here and this one hit deep
The american localization has one thing the literal translation doesn't: Subtlety.
I think the translations here are inherently conscious due to the differences in non-verbal dialogue between west and JP. While you'd still be cunning in a situation like this in japanese, your customs are typically more formal and respectful in daily life, so there's less suspicion within the language of asking for specific things like "Where people are evacuated" and "take beggars in although I avoid them". The subtle changes are the subtle differences in expectations of intent, between american and japanese conversation, where we tend to pack the specifics of what we mean in, more overseas, and we imply a lot more with less words. If he had said "where people get evacuated" it would become obvious that he just has an ulterior motive whereas in japanese it's normal enough to specifically describe the place you're looking for not hinting at a motivation for why you want it.
Only someone with your effort and knowledge of languages can provide this insight for us all. Thank you.
I think that humanity's next childhood is just a return to things as they were. In interviews, the creator stated that Arthur C. Clark's novel "Childhood's End" was an inspiration for Bloodborne. In it, the evolution of man is only realized or "matured" when the humanity essentially eats itself in order to join the Great Ones. A new childhood would just be another cycle culminating in another Great One.
This guy completely dominated me the first time I smacked him around on the rooftop. I was not expecting him to transform into that thing. Such a good part of the game!
He's got such a cheap moveset. Practically no startup and he's tanky AF.
Fortunately he's super weak to poison.
I sent the beggar to Iosefka. Hoped fiends will be friends. They well deserves each others tough.
I would never give up my humanity. But I would choose to evolve in order to hunt the Old Ones and force them back to where they came from.
I would argue we CAN judge him as a person rather than a beast. Either he is able to switch between the two at will, or he hasn’t fully transformed until he’s provoked, meaning he likely killed the residents of Oedon Chapel while human, so he can clearly understand Murder For Profit Is Bad. I agree with another person here, it seems like he’s just trying to justify his own actions. Also, on a more meta note, you kinda have to kill people for the game to progress? Even if you go through without killing anyone besides the bosses, some people gotta die for the game to move at all.
Ive said it before but i cannot understate how great and thorough your content is. After a shitty day it was relieving to watch something interesting.
Edit: Personally my view on the morality of killing beasts in Bloodborne is that its a necessary by product of attempting to achieve an eldritch godhood which is my preferred ending. Its interesting to think about the ramifications of the Hunters night though because only a few bosses are required but as the Hunter we have the option to hunt down other entities like Ebrietas, OOK, and Yharnam. Gherman thrusts us into the night by saying "go out and kill beasts its what hunters do".
Last protagonist: If in order to trancend humanity you had to leave your own humanit-
Me: Yes.
I was making a character who's entire morality is based on the Beggar for a Bloodborne fan story, so seeing this is a genuine surprise considering not much is told about the Beggar.
Love this! Suspicious Beggar is my favourite NPC in the game
Hunters are killers! Nothing less! ..and you call me a beast?! *A BEAST* ?!
One thing I never understood about the beggar is that If he will turn into a beast and literally decimate you just for attacking him on accident, why did he allow Iosefka's usurper turn him into a celestial?
I doubt he "allowed" the impostor Iosefka to turn him into a celestial - considering she's most likely a member of the Choir, I'd expect her to be able to subdue and force the transformation upon him
If transcending humanity means I save those still alive and get rid of the plaque, sure I would get rid of my humanity. 1 soul over many, others shouldn't suffer for the mistakes of a few.
My interpretation is though we are killers, we still fight to kill and rid the world of other killers
I'm still so curious about the imposter. She's my biggest question mark in the game.
Beware of killing monsters, lest you become one.
It's really interesting how The Old Hunters that you encounter throughout the Hunters Nightmare attack you on sight while the Afflicted Beggar, who can transform into an actual beast and so much more, just kinda interacts with you and is chill, unless you hit him. I also love the thing he says about the hunter, his *animal intuition*.
"Eats children" = Is chill. He's is in control to a degree but still a beast, just smart enough to know it's stupid to fight an immortal, he's still a evil asshat.
@@retrogamer7965 Monkeys and typewriters
The hunters in the nightmare are not sane though, they are all "blood drunk".
love this dialogue format. Caught red handed!
Keep these coming! I'm loving your content.
Your videos and speculation on bloodborne this far have been awesome. cant wait till later.
I'm not ready to de-headcannonize my Izzy theory :(
@Bruh Momenter never heared about that cut content before! Thanks
Why would you?
Only 4 hours early? Pft! I got time.
Always love seeing your fear the old lore vids
Well I found myself another channel I can't get enough of
One of the best things about being in a minority group is I always felt more drawn too the “monster” I always find them misunderstood or outcasts. When I killed the beggar the first time and he called me a monster and threw in my face the monsters I killed and then finding out from the gunner in old Yarnham I will admit the beasthood started to look more human than so called humans.
The old lady in the chair to me was the true face of mankind, nasty, self victimising, always passing the book to others, demonising those that are different, spiteful. Just to make a few and the when I saw vicar Amelia holding her amulet and from I can tell screams “No!” I cried and I wanted to be a beast more than a hunter!. I would embrace the beast (haha like what I did there, also the beast bed is poggers).
"To live like this" is ominous af
Peak story thematics
So good to see a lore video on my favourite npc ToT
Another master piece. You should put more of your own theories in. I like hearing your point of view
probably my favorite looking beast for sure
I found your videos and decided to play Bloodborne again for the first time in a time that I can't remember the length of. My skills dulled a lot as I'm struggling to get through the opening area and getting frustrated lol
Reminds me of Djura's dialogue if you kill him after you agree not to hurt the beasts ( which was an accident for me, I was just descending a ladder and accidentally bonked a beast on the head and Djura went nuts!) Aaaanywho he says "Don't you see? You are the beast..."
Beast pellets are blood clots so technically the begger is in the run for blood waifu.
Watch out Arianna amd Adella, there's a new donor in town and he's not afraid to bite!
Best lore videos, love the japanese comparisons
I wonder why he of all people retains consciousness
Consciousness can be viewed as "clarity of thought". In this case, he's one of the few characters who doesn't consider himself above beasts. He has no preconceptions or pretenses about who or what he is. So he isn't driven mad by the transformation because he has no internal contradictions.
That's my guess at any rate.
@@rainbowkrampus oooh never thought of it like that
@@revthescatman137 Honestly, I'd never heard that stuff from Miyazaki and it really opened up a lot of his thought process about characters for me just now. I'm kinda just pulling from years of media criticism stuff and inferring what he means here. But I feel like I'm pretty close in my interpretation.
I'm actually really excited to see FtoL is working on DS3 stuff now because I feel like being introduced to this aspect of Miyazaki's thinking will really open up a lot about that game's characters and histories.
I might need to replay DS3 for the kajillionth time...
Which is kinda funny. I was playing through DS3 again when the pandemic started up. And now I might be playing it again as it's winding down.
You're probably the best lore guy for this game. Keep it up dude
Ahh moral relativism.
"Yes, he did kill an entire family who weren't bloodthirsty monsters, buuuuuuut..."
Yeah no, the suspicious beggar is worse, end of story. And imposter doctor is evil as well - intentions be damned 🕶️👉👉
yeah sorry as soon as i saw cannibal man over there with his arms, mouth and chest covered in blood asking for a “place to stay” i sent him right over to ms imposter doctor. all i could think of was how irresponsible would it be for me to let some bloodthirsty freak eat all of my refugee pals. maybe letting him get experimented on is a kinda inhumane, but he literally had blood on his hands, and dying for science served a better purpose than just me killing him for no reason.
Amazing video, thank you!
I loved this video! That character has boggled my mind. It's like he doesn't fit in the lore at all. Like he in some way is potentially greater than Laurence and Ludwig for the amount of control he has over his form.
Great work!!
i honestly thought the begger beast dude wouldve been a secret trophy, wouldve been badass
It would be cool if he killed the impostor iosefka when sent there
Very good video, but youre talking a bit too fast. I have a hard time keeping up and understanding words spoken fastly as a european. Besides that, invaluable information in this video. Keep up the great work LP!
I understand this is surprisingly common problem. Do you find using the video settings to slow it to 0.75 speed helps?
Great video!
I speak Japanese and the 'discrepancies' aren't significant. Some of the English translations you found for the Japanese text are either translated too literally or phrased in a rather unnatural/unidiomatic way
For example 生き易い is translated as 'easy place to live', but this is extremely unnatural in English. 生き易い is universally understood on the same level as 'nice place to live' in our respective languages. The text around the beggar asking for the shelter was also translated in an unnaturally leading way.
Yes, they are literal translations not meant to keep players immersed in another setting. The goal isn't to say these translations are "better," only that subtle things can end up being lost in translation, and it can influence the tone of things.
Obviously a lot of the same information is implied in the English based on the Beggar's actions, but the Japanese *is* a bit more explicit in setting up the foreshadowing. This episode isn't really focused on the translation as much as it is the philosophical questions the Beggar raises, but I included this information because I figured others might appreciate it. Thanks for commenting.
@@LastProtagonist I did play Bloodborne with Japanese subtitles because I bought it in Japan, but even while reading it in Japanese I did not find any major differences in subtleties or foreshadowing compared to the English version (the game text is Japanese vs voices in English), in fact I was impressed with how well the English localization kept the foreshadowing nature of the Japanese original text.
The unofficial translated text you used implied the Japanese text was more direct and had a clearer foreshadowing of the beggar's nature but if you rely on the Japanese text with an idiomatic understanding of Japanese, I would doubt you would see much difference. My point is that your thesis on the Japanese text being significantly more direct or info-rich is reaching when you read both languages natively.
Darn I was hoping to send him to iosefkas clinic but I just got the red moon revealed last night haha
Maybe the beggar is a nihilist.
Will he have different dialogue if you have beast rune equiped?
Unfortunately no, but that's a really cool idea!
I always strike this guy on sight even ij my first playthrough
One thing I find curious is how evolution exists in that world, yet is never mentioned nor know the basis for it. It's almost a token phrase to mean something other than the theory, more related to metamorphosis or transformation than anything else. Given that it is the unknown and the arcane influencing a change in man, it would take on an occult or fantastical meaning, nothing scientific. It's also curious that the beasts seen transformed into are canine, not ape as evolution suggests, so these roots have to be more man choosing to be base in it's pursuits, not that he naturally is.
I love your content!!!
It always seemed as Beggar has Dissociative Identity Disorder. Hard to say for sure, because there just isn't enough material and after the first encounter indication of disorder sort of blends, it's either it was poorly thought through or it suggests that he started to kinda getting used to it. That beast he was scared initially, he started to justify its actions and therefore his own. You could argue that he just lied to you, but he was found eating from a dead child's corpse so if he was using logic he would transform into beast immediately as he saw you. He sincerely didn't acknowledge what he has done. His another identity takes over when he is in the desperate need (hunger) or is threatened (attacked). I'm pretty sure he had disorder before the hunt and that's what saved him in a way from transforming fully into a beast.
There is a JoJo reference in how this guy fights.
How?
Yo, if leaving behind my humanity involves only to eat old thirds of alien umbilical cords, I'm down for that!
I forgot his name but is there a kind of dialouge with buddy on the turrent in old yarnahm? If so how do u get it?
Great video !! Whats the music playing in the background ?
Oh, I meant to put it in the video description, thanks for reminding me. Great Grey Wolf Sif's Theme from Dark Souls 1
Most hardest boss in game.
This could be a dumb question, but is becoming an Emissary a "fate worse than death" so to speak, or is it a bit more nuanced?
At the very least, one loses their humanity, which is a form of death, or at least death of the self. It's more or less up to individual interpretation to consider if that's good or bad. Since Emissaries do seem hostile towards humans, it could be taken as a bad thing.
There's also the possibility that the Emissaries are either host to or controlled by Phantasms within them. Nothing's really set in stone though, so we're all left to decide for ourselves.
What an... insightfull work.
I shall take my leave.
If I transcended my humanity, would I still like cake? Or pie? Or just normal human food in general, because I don't know if blood echoes are that delicious. Would I still vote in an election? Do great ones pay taxes or engage in a beauracracy? These are the questions that haunt me in my play through of the game and now I want them answered dammit!
Last protagonist, have you seen unethico's video on sekiro and miyazaki's philosophy on immortality?
I believe so, yes.
@@LastProtagonist I feel that the theme of immortality ties in with your closing argument. If you would have to leave your humanity behind to transcend humanity, would you do it? What does "transcending humanity" actually entail? Achieving immortality? I like Seneca's quote on it: Man is too mortal for the comprehension of immortality. If being mortal makes you human, then does becoming immortal imply becoming inhuman, in the sense of becoming corrupted? I personally feel that in Bloodborne I get what is concretely going on; people turn into beasts, the hunters kill the beasts, the healing church is corrupt, the great ones are involved with the nightmare and want a "surrogate" baby, etc. But what is abstractly going on, I feel that I can't really wrap my head around it. What's the underlying philosophy of it all. Culturally, ambiguity(曖昧) is a very essential part of Japanese culture. So with Miyazaki's works I believe that the answers lie in what is not said, seen or clear to the player. We as westerners trying to disect every little piece of evidence and stringing a logical narrative together, may be a faulty approach. After all, it springs from a Japanese mind. It's natural for a westerner to frame narratives in a frame of a conflict between good and evil. But in Bloodborne do we actually have a clear view of good and evil? Do you know of an interview with Miyazaki wherein he possibly elaborates on the philosophical/mythological inspirations of bloodborne?
@@zerothehero123 I do not. I know he'll hint towards things "vaguely," but generally, he doesn't seem to go into too much detail, just to keep the game open for individual fan interpretations.
Other than that, www.bloodborne-wiki.com/2017/01/interviews.html has a good repository of his Bloodborne-related interviews.
@@LastProtagonist thanks!
What do you think about theory that beggar is Irreverent Izzy?
I think it's a cool theory I've wondered about myself. There's really nothing to confirm it or deny it, so I think it's fine to leave up to individual preference.
@@LastProtagonist There are quite some hints that support this theory. Item descriptions are hinting that Izzy was an tomb prospector who was researching dark beasts or at least had fascination with them. Dark beasts bear striking resemblance to abhorrent beasts. Both having dark and electrified fur and being found in Loran. As we know we find beast claws a weapon that Izzy weilded in Loran. This is conecting Izzy with Loran further.
Beggar is wearing madmen leggings which could be just a design choice, not related to item description, but it is interesting that he is wearing leggings that are associated with tomb prospectors that went mad. We find Beast Roar, a creation of Izzy in Forbidden Woods a bit before we find beggar. And finally him transforming into abhorrent beast is a final hint since he is totally unique beast type enemy that is only found within Loran chalice and nowhere in the base game.
Of course he could be someone entierly else, but I'm certain that he was once involved in the Healing Church.
As a side note it is also interesting that Beast Roar description says: "The indescribable sound is broadcast with the caster's own vocal cords, which begs the question, what terrible things lurk deep within the frames of men?" meaning that when men are transforming into beasts is more of an awakening of primal, beastly self that people already have deep inside. Beggar somehow found a way to embrace beasthood and not lose himself.
@@vanjaarsic1616 Sure, all of that stuff is valid. Part of the reason I treat it with caution is because unless something is explicit, it's kind of subject to change in these games. For instance, people were convinced the Madman in the Hintertombs was Ludwig until the DLC retconned it, lol
@@LastProtagonist Yep. I also remember when people thought that Cleric Beast was Ludwig. If there is something certain in these games is that little is certain.
Also, someone needs to get a hold of Vaati! He would love this stuff.
You're in the know, right?
Attempting to justify the actions of these characters is fruitless.
They are monsters who betrayed humanity by casting aside their own. Their existence poses a threat, therefore they must be destroyed.
There is no other answer.
663
Wtf
What happened