Assetto Corsa EVO ┃ Its FFB Likely Wont Ever Beat AC1 Or AMS1
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- I explain why if you are a fan of detailed FFB such as what you find in AMS1/AC1/AMS2 you shouldn't get your hopes up with Assetto Corsa EVO's FFB and how a majority of players of a game will just accept the games FFB and shut down any critical conversation on the issue.
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I believe this man because he never leaves that room. That's the advantage he has over every other driver.
True true, i see him on ETS driving to the shops
@@dinxsy8069 so he's supplying Lidl and Aldi?
His only other state is Lidl
FFB is what did AC 1 be one of the greatest.
This comment is hilarious. 90 percent of RUclips's comment section is just this. Thank you.
@@spraynardkruger6426 FFB is what did ac 1 be one of the greatest. Now thank me too.
@@spraynardkruger6426besides the broken english he's not wrong. If AC had crap physics nobody would want to mod for it.
@@spraynardkruger6426 AC1 has lots of mods mainly because it's worth creating them, which means that the cars you mod into the game look great and feel great when you drive them. Now, i don't know if AC1 is "realistic" but if you want to sell a game about driving cars the cars must be rewarding to drive, and that's exactly what AC1 cars are, rewarding to drive. It is suicidal to make an AC2 where you lose this aspect of the game, never mind that they hinted it won't be as moddable as AC1, and never mind that the AI they showed in the early access is pathetic. So what's left to do in AC Evo? Buy cars with virtual money? Bleh.
@@guidofoc7057ac evo is in early access. The state you see now will be completly different when the game reach 1.0.
Yes ac evo will have a lot more features than ac1 and acc once its finished.
please don't give up dude you are the only person that's championing this perspective and there's a lot of people that agree with you we're only at version 0.14 there's a long way to go and things could change. Anyways I think it's a different type of sim racer that's interested in this game anyways - people that enjoy driving more so than those that enjoy racing and hopefully that should
elevates your point
You can create an objective comparison of the differences between simulators if you record the inputs and FFB outputs, you can literally compare the response curves between the game, thus you can objectively show differences: same inputs = different outputs. The point is there are many ways to implement FFB: One approach is the "realistic" way by only replicating the actual real-life forces felt at the steering wheel in real car (including power steering or lack there-of); and the other approach is adding translation layers to account for other dynamics you'd feel in a real car and communicate that information through the steering wheel since that's typically the only interface we have with the simulator: e.g. the g-force you'd experience in the car and the net forces you'd experience on your hands against the steering wheel, etc
The physics is great. The FFB just needs to be amplified in the game software by the devs.
Fanatec tools will allow to get slipangle data and alter FFB with it
This whole saga reminds me of people online claiming "The human eye can't see more than 30fps" back in the day.
It’s crazy that Ac evos biggest competiton is Ac 1 with mods!
I think it should be a choice, like they should put the option of having realistic force feedback and one of having “artificially enhanced ffb”
I agree however you have to realize that all FFB is essentially artificial in that you will find every single sim feels totally different regardless of if the developer is trying to do "literal" ffb or not lol becuse the physics engine tire model and lots of aspects affect the FFB- then you also have to consider that people all have different FFB wheels which again massively change the feel of FFB from a simulator.
@@GamerMuscleVideos I mean yeah, but still, EVO is basically trying to simulate a real feedback, so things like weight transfer and many road inconsistencies get filtered out intentionally, I’m quite sure you can just turn them up selectively and have a ffb similar to the first ac
Isn't that how rF1 worked? There was an "effects" option, "low" was just tire force, then there were a couple different things you could add.
@@Sbinott0 AC 1 was also trying to do it literally (so long as you didn't use the random effect sliders which most don't) The last garage sim trying to do it literally so is race room , rack force on AMS2 is just steering rack so is iracing.
The end resulting FFB is often due to the physics , tire model rather than some elaborate FFB effects or design.
Beam NG is also just steering rack though you can optionally add in a G-Force effect in the settings.
Honestly i dont think we will ever see FFB like AC ever again... it was incredible and NO ONE can touch it.
I'm glad the lack of FFB is starting to take center stage from many content creators and racers. Give us back control of FFB through options. Developers can recommend a specific setting, but let us change it and tweak it to our specific hardware combination. Imagine having a motion rig, and then the FFB in EVO just doesn't do anything except tip you over a little bit. What a letdown.
The FFB candidness and your boldness and honesty were the things that made me a fan and subscriber since day one.
I actually feel for you since you take a lot of the heat many of us sim racers would be taking if we were as open to scrutinize everything like you.
It also makes me remember some smaller guys that are also very vocal and do demonstrations about things that are very wrong in sim racing...
(Like throttle maps)
"but gm why you be so nasty with ACE?" - Marco
This response from Marco instantly worried me about how they will approach FFB in AC Evo. When GM further explained to Marco in the limited time he had you can tell he lost the man. He couldn’t connect or respond in kind.
Crazy how sim hardware is way ahead and more mature than any new racing sim coming out. Maybe last garage will have amazing ffb an brake fade in my active pedal.
Live for Speed was the only simulation where I actually felt like everything felt right. Physics, FFB, etc. Idk how those devs with all that money can't best a game from 2002 made by like 5 people but here we are. And the best part is that you don't need a high end wheel to enjoy that one, it feels great on the logitechs and thrustmasters. I feel like a lot of those newer sims give an unfair advantage competitively to people who have high end equipment.
You might be right. But I've never felt the weight of a car in a sim in the same way I did when playing Evo. So they must be doing something right, even if it's not all the things that Assetto Corsa 1 did. You haven't acknowledged this anywhere. Do you not feel it?
@@FunTimeswithFlo that's because it has super over the top self aligning / suspension tug on FFB when braking which also totally drowns out all detail from the ffb.
@@GamerMuscleVideos When I tried it on my Logitech Pro, I felt more detail in the FFB than I have on any sim. Although that may have been the True force. It felt super immersive.
Last week I tested all the cars in AC Evo 1.3. some of them have wrong physics some are good. Then, I found the feedback "numb" and, after 4 hours testing, I felt the need to race in AC1 to restore in my brain that pleasant sensation while you drive
Ive seen alot of users like this one as much as ac1 with ffb. Me i think its pretty good but i own 4 wheelbases and each one it feels different on. Idk whats going on there but they all truely have a variance. Asetek feels like it has unlimited grip, simagic has more slip, fanatec has an ok balance and moza feels like it has no underateer or not great oversteer feelings. No joke its really weird how different it is across different wheelbases. So this is a hard title to judge and alot of users on our facebook group the big one really enjoy the ffb in evo. It was the biggest surprise to most how good it was out of the gate. So i am starting to beleive it depends on what you are using.
Right now im maining the asetek and it truely gives me every sensation I need with an incredible sense with the suspension. I feel the loading and unloading beatifully. So ill stick with it for now. Im lucky I get to use all of these not everyone does. So for me the exeprience has been better then acc with ffb.
There is one thing i think they did to aggeesuvely. So remember at the expo? They said all wheelbases were oscillating so they had to really lower the wheelbases. So i feel the devs may have overly agressivley reduced that and it reduced other things in the process. Because I will say I do need to use more torque with it then some other titles.
There will be slight differences between wheels but on the grand scheme of things they will be super subtle.
The variance of grip loss and variation through corners should be stupendously obvious on any DD wheel , should even be noticable on a G25.
Basically you are nit picking over utterly marginal differences.
As people did with ACC FFB
Also people fixate on "feel" of ffb rather than the information / data aspect of games FFB. This is why they get blown away by lut files or damper and filter changes...
I obviously know lots of people that are talented simracers that all have different wheels and they have reported the exact same thing as me , a few of them before I even commented on anything.
If someone thinks this or ACC has detailed FFB for what the car is doing they literally have no idea about ffb and should be excluded from the conversation.
It's like if someone couldn't tell difference between 60hz vsync and 144hz GSync lol
Sadly so many people are clueless and confident as I say in the video this holds back any conversation on ffb.
This also is partly what killed FFB joysticks with flight sims aside from the patent troll.
For some reason a hell of a lot of people just don't understand haptics for information to do activities.
People also don't understand driving real cars from feel and how that relates to things.
So those of us that donate basically fu🐧kd lol
@GamerMuscleVideos yeah but this was weird. It was much larger differences then acc, iracing etc. I was very shocked. Almost like the brands still need to add in some patches also along with the game. Idk how to explain it. It felt like a compeltely different experience across each. Which I believe is kind of why so many opinions are varying lately on this title. Some are blown away by the ffb and others aren't. Like I felt my simagic was super understeery yet my asetek wasn't. Same ratio etc.
@@reviewforthetube6485 people made this argument for ACC , I tried it on every wheel and it was total BS , just each wheel does have slight differences and processing + filter options.
Given that I have had feedback from 5+ people on different brands of wheel and what I experience on Moza with no filter on is basically the same as what was going on at SRE when I removed filter on a bunch of the wheels.
Then I'm 90% confident you are basically talking about nit picking differences.
Where as the difference should be the equivalent of irffb lol on Max sop , or beam with full force vs0. Or some other obsurdly obvious thing.
Like a g25 should be able to pick up the dynamic range if a sim wants people to be able to drive it naturally on the majority of consumer hardware.
I see the same argument for LMU people go oh it's just wheel base feels fine on my x brand wheel...
It's like no your missing the Forest from the trees and sure that wheel happens to feel different but the underlying information that's pertinent is the same.
I'd also wager you are fixating on the initial braking faze of driving which does have very aggressive corrective FFB in Evo regardless of the wheel used.
@GamerMuscleVideos I'm not saying the ffb is perfect but I legit have them here to test with the game. It teuely does feel different and I never used that in acx as I can get on any wheelbase and it feels similiar at least to myself. But this one is weird and the first time I've felt this type of fluctuation. Idk why or how as I explained I don't get it. Its just what's happening to me. But I do like the ffb even if its not perfect. Its not my favorite but good enough for an early access sim. I guess
To begin with debating on FFB is like debating on religions. Futile at best as they are all made up. "Realism" is not desirable, unless you can somehow implement g-forces outside the FFB. Immersive and informative are the key words. I think the best ffb is the one with the best adjustments, so it can be change to ones liking.
Ps. "Driving by memorization" is one of the stupidest thing I have heared, as ffb inertia does some of the actual steering / counter steering for you..😂
He says iRacing FFB is mostly poor, but the uses his 5k irating as an argument of his understanding of ffb.
I try to avoid calling people stupid or "noobs", but the most obvious sign of incompetence is often the lack of self-criticism.
Its so frustrating that its going the wrong way with the most important feedback in simracing
Look at all the comments and other videos , people have no clue and want totally useless FFB just like ACC , honestly those of us that actually want to take advantage of the dynamic range of DD wheels and actually feel the grip of the tire through the entire corner are totally F**D lol - The problem people that have no clue are by far the majority for the exact reasons explained in the video.
AC evo simply with the FFB of AC1 would be a homerun, it's that easy.
Strange, I feel like ACE has better FFB than AC1.
If you don't like to feel what the tires are doing through the corner and want really abrupt self aligning with a ton of damper then sure.
Sadly we don't have G-forces in a simulator so need detail from the wheel to ballence a car properly at the limit , unless you want to memorize all the physics and then drive a sim car like a first person RC car.
This game will be great for Gran Turismo fans, an arcade game concept with simulator physics.
As a downhill skateboarder (we exist over the edge of traction), this is why AC is my favourite driving game. I’m playing a lot of ACC but I am not enjoying the need to guess where my wheels are exactly when trying to counteract a when on edge and it is forcing me to learn the tracks really really well for sure, which I struggle with until I hit enough hours for it to be medium-long term memory. I was hoping ACE would be better in the regard (but I don’t have the system power to play it yet.) I hope the modding community keeps working on AC for at least a few more years. But it’s still the best for trying new things and racing with your friends. (Although, it would be cool to be able to self host, and not join a server or setup up a second computer as a server)
Oh well, Hopefully in 2035 we'll finally have the golden era of FFB again.
Not too long to wait, just TWENTY YEARS in total.
@@starfox_wr-45e93 lines up perfectly with my retirement. Shouldn't even be playing now, should be working, to save up for the 15090 GPU, which will cost 169420$ by then.
as someone with an 8nm DD, aside from the missing detail at the limit, the road cars just feel comically light. I get they’re road cars, but it turns my wheel into what feels like a g29. I want to have the option to have it way too strong and dial it back. Like AC.
Remember people. You can't unbsubscribe if you don't subscribe first!
LOL!!!! I have been subscribed and left my comment. No plans to unsubscribe.
When I turn the FFB in game dampening to 0, I expect to have ZERO DAMPENING FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HOW HARD IS THAT
Well at least cars go over curbs now.
Also yet to see if it has dodgy astroturf physics, otherwise known as astrophysics.
Wouldn't you like some centre Spring to go with that Sir? Make a nice package 🤣
lol simaracers who never drove an real car.
Did you know the car is made of rubber tyres and suspension that moves up and down?
You are not driving an metal box that reacts to your input 1:1.
Cars have dampining, even the hardest race cars.
Ahh yes, I've always wanted all my racing games to get my direct drive wheel to do their best washing machine impression while I'm driving.
Spot on and very well description of the situation 👍🏼. Let’s not give up and let’s put our thoughts on the Kunos forum. Now we still have the chance to make a change
GM, have you watched Mo-R-racing's video about AC EVO's lacklustre FFB? He's a real life driver who is echoing your sentiments about the FFB lacking information. He has pinpointed it down to the mid corner/exit phases rather than the trail braking phase. Thoughts? 🙂
It certainly is weaker by about half on my g29. Much less detailed and muted too compared to ac1.
although I like how ace does not oscillate at the center like ac1 can.
Devs just need to turn it up and crisp up the bumps and vibrations and move the ffb closer to center at slow speeds.
If FFB ocilates you can just add damper to your wheel or filter.
Unfortunately a G29 is not a good enough wheel to evaluate a games FFB properly as a the G29 will massively affect FFB due to it's specific limitations.
I mean it's interesting how good a game might be with x specific wheel as a separate point or conversation.
Basically you need to get to 8-9Nm DD to really be able to feel everything a sim puts out and it not being the wheel itself affecting FFB more.
@@GamerMuscleVideos this is factual.
It's also no longer fast enough for drifting compared to other wheels.
@@GamerMuscleVideos Well I don't agree with you about the G29. I have used a G27 for years before I replaced it with a Fanatec DD wheel, and I still have the G27. But I can clearly feel with the G27 the FFB in AC1 which is missing in other simulators. I'm surprised you call it details. For me it's the basic FFB. And everything else is the details for me. If I put the Damper much higher in the Fanatec wheels settings, I lose all kinds of small details like small bumps in the road surface, but I still feel when I have understeer or oversteer.
@@nitromcclean I have a G27 also played with G25 and t300 and have 5+ other wheels.
The point is until you get to a 8Nm DD or so the wheel base itself will be affecting the ffb alot.
For sure RBR AC1 and some other stuff is still great on low end wheels.
Ironically stuff that still has detail on a g25 will probably have even more detail and be even better by the time you use a DD.
There are different forms of damper and filter depends on the wheel base sure some damper with some wheels will mute specific things , and generally sustained loads / low frequency forces will be the thing that always comes through the most.
Thanks For subscribing and then un-subscribing ! - Genuinely feel its a lost cause also have to consider on a technical level it can be complex to get detailed FFB from a simulator for a multitude of reasons and that's before you really consider design choices. Regardless the sheer number of people shutting down any critical conversation on this effectively means there is no real hope for things moving in any intentional direction.
I'll never unsubscribe, if only out of morbid curiosity to see what you come up with next.
Clipped and shipped to Marco massaruto😢
Gotta disagree with your opening statement, only because if the devs don't do it, someone will mod it. But if we've reached the height of what FFB can do? Well, that's cool too. But dude, it won't be worse. Maybe at launch? But it's a straight code copy and paste - with a couple of tweeks.
You can't neccecerly mod FFB into a game due to how FFB operates , some injectors might allow it and some telemetry based ffb with some wheels but unless the developer exposes more advanced FFB such as AMS2 / projectcars then generally its very limited what a modder could do.
we have not reached the hight of what FFB can do , there are a ton of ways in which FFB could be generated and even within the ways commonly used there are lots of things that can be done which make ffb more or less detailed.
@@GamerMuscleVideos Of course, you could be right. But I would point out that this is their 4th racing game and to bungle the FFB would not only kill the game but most probably kill the company as well. By the sounds (because it's a new engine) they've concentrated on physics to a massive degree. Creating all those physics but not allowing you to feel it through FFB? I just don't buy it. It's in early access, give them time.
@@trashman1358 Nah most players don't have a clue and put up with massively lacking FFB , ACC ,GT7 , Forza , WRC most people have forgotten RBR,AMS1,AC or have never played them with a wheel set up right to know.
Kunos could keep current FFB and Evo still outsell most sims by launching on console and them having a real driver say it's the best.
They will obviously work on the FFB I'm sure they want it to be better but given they were perfectly happy with ACC again in all likelihood they will tweek it a bit and then be like "that's good enough" or "it's realistic"
@@GamerMuscleVideos Fair enough dude.
Hi James,
I follow you for over 10 years now (good old DK2 times). Thanks for your continued passion on this and bringing up these conversations.
You mentioned the lack of real drivers unverständig this.
Here an example of someone with experience who feels the same way as you:
ruclips.net/video/excbddUtm6s/видео.htmlsi=jIV4i-OxHucM_q16
Please share your current settings and which settings you tried. That gives everyone the context of how you settled on your conclusion.
TLDR:
These are my findings and impressions. They should not be understood as disagreement or convincing the feel and experience of others. I just want to share, to allow others to try and potentially maximise their experience.
I agree that AC1 has great and very easy to understand communicative FFB.
The FFB of AC Evo is super different in that and other ways.
In my view AC Evo has and deeper physics and tire-suspension-whatnot-model with loads more development potential (details on that below).
For me I found a FFB base setting that lets me drive purely on feel at the limit also on mid corner and corner exit.
Compared to the very prominent feel on loading the fronts up on comer entry the feel of a loose car on the limit mid and corner exit is only around 20-30% as prominent. So, the feel is there for me but should defenettly be increased.
Kunos missed to explain their initiative settings for FFB. So, the mentally healthy among us stop fiddling at some point and never find the current optimal setting for them. Some settle and enjoy the game, others go back to what they enjoy more and some don't even know what they are looking for.
Try my settings below and give some feedback if it improves the feel at least a bit.
DEATILS:
AC Evo development stage and some basics that should be worked on:
The Devs mentioned the FFB is mainly driven by that and that the road tires are better develop for now. The slicks came in later and have some ways to go. So, I hope that the FFB improves with that development.
Pure on FFB I think Kunos did a very poor job by not explaining what each setting does.
They make it even worse with confusing users by the naming the settings that result in associative interpretation on what they affect how.
It should be very easy for them to just explain for each setting "higher values will increase the feel for xyz car behavior in situation abc".
They should also give more options to adjust some basics horizontal load, lateral load for the driving wheels and non-driving wheels.
Some background:
I enjoy this hobby with my trusty CSW2 since 2014 with some pauses (family, emigrating to NL...)
I have over 50 h in AC Evo, over 600h in AC1, ? hours in iRacing (FFB and physics always felt to finicky for me), over 80 in AMS2 (VR is the best in that one) over 50 h in WRC (despite weird rotational physics), never invested time ACC (bad in VR, only GT,...)
I drive purely on feel in dry and rain with loads cell trail braking...
I am far from alien pace and on AC1 and others on average in others simi around 2 second of those guys and girls.
My experience with AC Evo FFB:
First impression: Wow that is different. Why is everything so dampend?
After why too much fiddling, experimenting, A B testing, researching (I am a scientist by training) I came to some conclusions.
Second impression: Still very different from AC1, but I was feeling a deeper physics and tire-suspension-whatnot-model. For me it feels much more intuitive to feel how much trail braking and throttle input and is needed to balance the car based on the load and grip. I am confident that this allows me to become a faster driver. I am curious to see if that's the case when the AC Evo get multiplayer or time trail leaderboards.
How I best current FFB feel for me on mid corner and corner exit:
Despite the lack tool tips and in my view misleading naming of the FFB settings, I found something to even better feel the in my view masterpiece of the tire-suspension-whatnot-model. This helped me really feeling everything the car does.
I can now not only feel the weight of the car and how much it’s loaded up on grip but also progressively when it is getting loose. In particular the transition from edge of grip to having a loos rear was hard to feel before. I now feel oversteer in time and can react on feel alone without relying on visual or audio cues.
Compared to the very prominent feel on loading the fronts up on comer entry the feel of a loose car on the limit mid and corner exit is only around 20-30% as prominent. With this I easily feel when the car get to loos and when I need to correct. How much I need to correct seems to be clear as well. But when holding a slide for longer there is very very little nuance that informs about the slip angle. I this this has the most room for improvement.
Settings:
I know the settings look weird and counterintuitive but give them a try. In brackets my attempt to explain what I think the setting does.
FFB: 50 to 80 depending on the car (higher values = more FFB strength overall)
Dynamic Dampening: 40 or more
(as per Kunos: Increasing this parameter affects the wheel’s reaction speed. Thanks, Kunos. But how does it affect it, more = speedier or the other way around?
As per my experiments: it is car dependent, higher values = increased feel for how much load is on the front of car, more prominent wight transfer)
Speed Sensitivity: 100
(as per Kunos: no info.
From my experiments: I feel like only 100 gives me the full weight depending on speed, higher values = increased effect of load and unload at speed)
Steering Assist Weight: 50 to 100
(as per Kunos: no info.
From my experiments: I like 100 the most. Try and feel into it. That one should be called “sensitivity to feel the loss of grip", higher value = feel the car getting loose quicker with less resistance at less grip)
Rest on 0
I am on a Fanatec CSW set to:
SEN: 900
Ffb: 100
dri: 3 (I think it does almost the same as Steering Assist Weight in game. It makes the wheel less damped by actively assisting rotation, 1-2 feels damped as you still have work against the wheel, 3 is the optimal middle ground, 4-5 feels very assistive and is only advised for drifting where to allow very hight turning speeds of the wheel)
For: 100
SPr: 100 (tried it with 0 but felt as if the games FFB gets less detail)
dPr: 100 (ried it with 0 but felt as if the games FFB gets less detail)
Polyphony's take on FFB, with GT7, is "The further you turn the wheel from centre, the harder the wheel should be to turn."
I felt this the first time I drove it, right up until I completed the original Cafe races and deleted the game because of it.
Lol yah its like a spring , basically renders using a high end ffb wheel with the game pointless.
"what will happen is" has already happened Mr. StefanoCasillo himself saw fit to label my comments about FFB on Overtake as Fake News.
Well he's not working at Kunos any longer.
Unsubscribed twice to this
Curious on your suggestions for a few cars / combos to really show off AC's FFB best - recently got into it again for Vintage stuff and enjoying it, but the feel can be all over the place - often excellent, sometimes odd (even with some Kunos cars).
- VRC Indycar at Sebring :)
- IER Simulations cars
- From the original cars, the Tatuus and the LMP cars I would say have good FFB. For me personally, it must be a racecar. Road cars have bland FFB anyway
@ thanks mate!
I love the Ferrari 488 GTB. You can start with TC on because it has a lot of power, but then once you get familiar with it, turn TC off. It's super nimble, likes trail braking, on my CSL DD feels awesome, i drive it mostly on roads like LA Canyons.
IMO the best ac1 ffb is cayman gt4 clubsport, perfectly weighted and intuitive, drove it mostly on nordschleife
Don’t lose hope!!! Maybe all the people that Get it can write to Kunos, and spam them the request to make it an AC1 style FFb as an option. It could be in the settings as a toggle-able choice, so people can still choose their hyper realistic, “feels like a car with power steering rack” setting.
I tried the EVO today. I can understand your point.
This proves that AC FFB was a complete accident.
They simply don't know how to replicate or improve on it.
I think it's worth remembering that the early alpha is still only 2 weeks in. I have my fingers and toes crossed that Kunoz can get the FBB at least as good as AC which has some of the best in the industry. rF2 has the best of any sim I've tried so far though
Enthusia on the PS2 (the best racing sim to never be on PC) had a very interesting way of visually showing all the forces that were acting on your car with a special gauge (it showed the status of each wheel, it's angle, forces acting on the suspension, and how the center of gravity of the car was moving). I always found that really nice because I could play on a gamepad and still know what was going on with my car. I wish that sort of thing would make a comeback so that people who prefer to rely on visual cues, or people without wheels, can have a bit more information. In fact, I'd even say that gauge was MORE precise than force feedback, because it showed those forces acting in two axis, while a wheel can only move in one.
Another great video, GM. The problem I have, is that I have always thought that AC had the best physic & FFB. But for maybe 3/4ers of it's lifespan, I have watched a classic SimRacing604 video, that taught me how to use a MOD that gave me a custom LUT specifically for my wheel using Wheel Check (and other things?). So I simply can't remember what the "default vanilla" FFB of AC even feels like. So if AC EVO does end up supporting MODS. Then would it also support an (approved) custom file for loading a specific LUT or FFB file for the wheel that a person owns?. ADMISSION :- As an Australian simpleton - so I am not even sure if a LUT file affects FFB or just the physics --- so please take what I say with the smallest grain of salt on earth, hahahaha. ; )))
LUT files for AC just Reshape the signal out like an EQ its not needed at all with most wheels and will just arbitrarily EQ the FFB it does not add more detail.
FFB wheels on the market can do exactly the same thing as a LUT but again its basically pointless with a DD wheel.
Sadly people that have no clue think of Lut files as being some amazing magical thing when all it does as i say is EQ the ffb a bit , its almost entirely a gimmic unless you have a low end wheel that was acting super random such as some G25's or some T300s back in the day when the motors would be a bit weard at times or you wanted to smooth over the built in deadzones a bit. Again with any DD wheel over 8Nm this is all pointless / utterly arbitrary.
LUT does not affect physics or FFB, it affects the amount of force that is delivered in each "spot". LUT: Look Up Table.
It's meant mainly to fix or lessen the dead middle area feel of Logitech and other wheels, to make them "tighter". It has no use with DD wheels.
@@GamerMuscleVideos a genuine hand on heart thankyou to you (& @Nrde) for the info. But I just hope the YT comments aren't steering you (pun intended ; ) to a point that you become a bit like my brother - who calls everyone that doesn't agree with his thinking "idiots". I am that idiot in a way, but some of us learn at different speeds, so I knew that the LUT would help my low end G29's range feel better? - but I just wasn't sure if it also affected FFB/Physics. (but thanks to you & Nrde, now I know, hahaha ; )))
@@SingleRacerSVRHe must be grumpy because his tea got cold while he was gabbing.
@@Nrdelol as a g29 user I can confirm that lut helped a lot
best force feedback comes from my wife lol
My best ffb also comes from this guys wife
You know her too?@@crawfordbrown75
Listening to this rant, while I rant driving on AC:E
This is what FFB hell must be like, a bald man rambling about front end feel and clutching his wheel, randomly singing 🎶ddgirl 🎶. I'm assuming there will be sim rigs in hell of course, I could be wrong.
😂😂😂😂😂
I personally like the direction of where EVO's ffb is headed. Not perfect by any stretch, but in the right direction. I admit that this is subjective. IMO, EVO's physics already "generally" feels better than AC1 or ACC's (AC1 never really clicked for me - I much preferred ACC's). Either way, we know that Kunos isn't finished with it. ACC did end up evolving its tire physics over time (despite the Unreal engine's limitations in that regard). It was never perfect (much like AC1's isn't). I have no doubt the same will happen with EVO. It's rather premature to claim it will never beat AC1. Also, it becomes a matter of taste. Some people like AC1's the most. Others prefer ACC. Other still prefer GT7, iRacing or now EVO's. At the end of the day, it really boils down to subjectivity (from an enjoyment standpoint - from a pure technical standpoint, I'm sure every sim misses the mark here). So just because one youtuber makes the claims made here, doesn't mean it applies to everyone. Not even remotely close. Play the sim that brings you enjoyment. There is no one size fits all.
What you like is subjective , the fact that some sims have more or less information to drive from in the FFB is objective difference and that's the point.
Just because you are unable to know what is of use to drive from and are happy does not mean that all the people that do know what to look for should suffer just because you are ignorant.
@@GamerMuscleVideosmate I’m with you about 80% of your views and opinions about KUNOS direction with the FFB within EVO, Norms comments about it seem pretty reasonable, definitely wasn’t condescending or rude towards you at all and makes a very rational comment at the end. And your response to him was complete narcissistic behaviour, rude and condescending.
Because he shared a different perspective you wanna talk to him like that? Implying he isnt skilled like you (lol) and mustn’t be able to comprehend or look for again like the highly intelligent and skilled James you just shit on him calling him ignorant.
Dude I’m so bummed out you would be like that to anyone of your viewers. I’ve joked in comments about your whinging and I think it pushes the FFB forward so it’s needed, I’ve joked you milk it for views which you absolutely do, I can’t believe this is who you are mate and would be so damn entitled .
Mate news flash your a middling content creator if you had 3 kids and wife this wouldn’t support them, you absolutely come across like your of superior intellectual makeup than the rest of us, who pisses and moans about FFB making video after video about the same subject because views is your only revenue stream, you got your IR to 5000 then because your not talented clearly nowhere near talented enough to maintain you have lost 2000 IR since then, your win % is 1.53 😂😂😂 does that sound like you have the tremendous ability and natural gifts to speak to a supporter like he is dumb as dogshit? Or maybe it’s your 0.53% win percentage in sportscars 😂😂😂 , that is literal dogshit on your shoe type ability. BUT without question those thousands and thousands of ir drop would be everyone else’s fault. A pattern I’ve noticed .
Your a below average sim racer, slow to mildly slow, your opinions of FFB have some merit, but nothing close to the merit you gave yourself and the image you have of yourself in your own brain is stuff of legend. There is nothing more funny and dangerous at the same time as a man who thinks he is smart, tells everyone of how smart he is and is condescending of anyone not as smart as his perceived smartness. Pure unfiltered comedy that is .
Mate look in the mirror you ain’t close to how you see yourself , wake the fuk up and apologise to Norm
@@GamerMuscleVideos While yes ffb can be viewed objectively, I'd wager that most view it largely as subjective (case in point - just look at all the fanboys from every sim corner clamoring that their sim is the most realistic - they can't be all correct from a technical standpoint). But that's what I'm saying here.. no matter how objective you may take these issues, it won't influence or matter to most people (this is a hard truth - sorry), because they will like what they like, whether their sim is technically as accurate as can be or not.. As I said.. there is no one size fits all. For the people who do know what to look for as you put it (and are not finding it in EVO) - fair enough. We have choices. You seem offended by my "ignorant" comment, but it still stands. It is clear that EVO is not for you (as premature as this title is). It might (or might not) live up to what you are looking for (probably won't given your video title and that your mind is seemingly made up on the matter). Your opinion (much like mine) is one of many. You clearly enjoy AC1. Great - keep playing that. No sin there. And I find it odd to phrase that people who know what to look for shouldn't "suffer", despite my apparent ignorance. If people like you are "suffering", well, again.. choices. (first world problems, am I right?) At least you can continue playing AC1. It seems to me that in your eyes, its among the greatest (nothing wrong with that - it's there for your, and other peoples enjoyment - much like every other sim on the market). I would wager that there is enough sim choices out there that no one is (nor should be) "suffering" from EVO's fbb or especially from my own opinions/ignorance lol. I suspect that what you are really hoping for here (and clearly you are becoming very disappointed by) is something much more inline with AC1. We already have that game (with the added bonus of modding that keeps that title alive and well). But clearly this is not what Kunos is aiming for here (and nor should they). In the end, if EVO doesn't work out for you, there's nothing wrong with that. To each their own. But yeah, I'm calling it. Subjectivity over objectivity. Life hurts sometimes...
@@norm_olsen havent bothered reading all of the crap you wrote because you obviously havent bothered paying attention to everything he said. You have made no point he hasnt covered and he described your reaction perfectly in the video before you even had it. Nice one moron!
@@norm_olsen so liking ffb that mirrors real life driving on the limit is subjective? cool to know. maybe next time i get on the track i will drive more with my eyes and ears like in ac evo because the majority of people think thats subjectively better. ill only react when i see and hear the understeer.
I dont get why they didnt do AC EVO same ffb as AC
because it's nice and all, but it's NOT realistic. I think they still might change that if people are vocal about it, but you have to be aware that the FFB in Assetto Corsa is a result of it being developed using weak wheelbases, like Logitechs and Thrustmasters way before we dreamed of affordable Direct Drive wheels. It's nice to have a choice of extremely detailed and arm breaking FFB, but many people will not know what that real car actually feels like,
I think everyone here needs to touch grass
I think Kunos just put so much damping in the ffb of Evo even with everything zeroed out ingame and in the wheelbase settings is because they just wanted to release fast and they knew that the ffb is not done yet and they just wanted to avoid that beginners with strong wheels hurt themselves. We all saw what happened with many wheels in the first days after release. I think and i hope that they will unlock to ffb without that damping soon so that we can put our desired damping to the ffb. Evo until now is also definitely not optimized for many wheelbases. Some say they dont feel any changes even when they put the vibrations ingame to 100%. When i do my whole rig is shaking like hell.
It's absolutely incredible as is with some tuning. The haptic feedback through the wheel is also incredible.
I have an S2000 IRL, it's basically nailed it. Particularly on the super car tires.
ruclips.net/video/IaUjFaBU43U/видео.html&ab_channel=GamerMuscleVideos
The FFB in AC no matter what car you drive varies but the feeling is spot on in each vehicle. I can’t seem to recreate that brilliance in ACE no matter how I adjust the sliders on wheel and in game. I live in hope that Kunos devs can find that feeling of control on the edge of grip.
AC - 240FPS
ACC - 120FPS
ACE - 40FPS
I saw a video somewhere where Kunos said it’s the same FFB in all ac, the difference is the tyre model, I have no clue if that is correct.
@@Xpl0jd1 yah they use the same FFB code but physics tire model and other aspects can change how cars end up feeling / the FFB generated.
New tire model in LMU is a good example of how tire model can change the FFB quite a bit even if the FFB code is the same.
That's a bit of sad, AC is very likely sharing the RBR fate being never replaced with something better or at least the same.
Evo already feels better than ac.......
Gamermuscle is stuck to the past, i dont even think he understands it itself.
EVO is already approved by real world drivers and lots of simracers find it the best.
But luckily for gamermuscle he will always have his AC 1.
I believe the same and im very disappointed
Lets hope that Kunos watch this video and proof you wrong
I guess it depends on what people want simulated in a sim. Do they want it to be as close as possible 1:1 to real world. Or would they prefer the gestalt "Experience" to be simulated. If the former, then the dulled down FFB. If the latter is more important, and I think it is, then FFB needs to do more to compensate for everything else that is missing.
You can achive the former with most wheels with wheel settings , the latter is down to the developer having the detail in the FFB to give the players the choice.
this video explains things more - ruclips.net/video/IaUjFaBU43U/видео.html
Great, so I'm effed with Evo. Oh well.
And yet in at least one interview I saw Marco made a point of saying that AC Evo is designed to make driving easier; how could that be with less feel, less information to the wheel, than what AC offers?
I would rather have a good FFB than a beautiful environment, with an FFB of AMS1 or RF2 you are more concerned with racing and pushing the limitis than you are with the beautiful environment and graphics. Tell me what do you gain from beautiful graphics and a not good FFB? Now are racing games made to look at the graphics or to race, it's your choice
I'm glad you mentioned ams1, it's got its issues but the raw feel for the car is outstanding still to this day imo.
what is missing from evo thst its not direct ,ffb is delayed and as acc early access similar its very damped even with zero dampening.You can feel the edge of grip too
I think most backlash is going to come from how mods are going to work rather than the ffb.
which sim do you think has the most communicative/best feedback the way you like it? is there one out there you think is or close to perfect? I'd like to try it if so, as I mostly just play and end up back in ACC. I'd like to open up the horizons a little!
I don't think any of them do anything as near to what's possible to get from a DD wheel base.
AC,AMS1,RBR are all really quite good for detail AMS2 though it's physics are a bit weird lol.
I'm sorry but AC Evo and AC1 ...they DO have "similar" FFB. What else are you gonna say? "AC Evo feels a lot like pCARS"??! No, you're gonna say it feels a lot like AC1, just more damp and smooth and in a bad way "more realistic" (as in "closer to how a real world steering wheel feels in a real world grandmother's car").
And I want to add: One of the biggest reasons AC1 players ignored ACC is not just the GT3-only content, but also the performance and that certainly hasn't improved even though it now actually looks sharper and really good imo. Also: VR and lastly people like me (and you probably) who thought cars in ACC didn't behave like a car over the limit or at least it doesn't feel like it does through the FFB. Steam says I have 7 hours in that game and I even bought the GT4 stuff to give it another try. I must have over 1000h in AC1 and it's not even my favorite sim (yes, it's actually AMS1).
@@renereiche Evo and ACCs FFB is nothing like AC , literally totally missing information.
Like claiming a black and white film was colour
I mean the handling is also quite drastically different as well which also will effect FFB.
@ In my opinion there is a distinct difference between "missing information" and "drowned, smoothed, dampened, factored in too little" of an information. And the closest match in handling to AC Evo is also AC1 out of all the sims. Sure, it's different, but everything else is even MORE different.
in my opinion AC 1 and RF 2 is best FFB models
i wish i hadnt boght the game. its terrible. it has worse FFB than ACC.
think this must be a first. i 100% agree with you.
And he's concluded this from a demo from a half finished alpha.
Yes you can infact conclude things from the thing that exists and also make quite educated guesses / arguments based on how things have gone in the past.
No you can't criticize a title that is in early access!!!!!!
On the positive side, if EVO FFB does not improve compared AC1, you can keep making videos for years to come about its FFB. From content point of view this is a win, from game enjoyment point of view its a loss.
Kunos ac1 we supported the developers and complimented them on how great ac1 was for so many years. We begged for years to have that ffb feel back And it was probably all for nothing.. I wonder why they don't want to bring back that success....
A video calling 99% of your viewers (including me) noobs. Approved! 😀
Nothing wrong with being a noob , but there is an issue with noobs basically saying everything has to be rubbish purely because they don't understand something.
Be like noob FPS players forcing games to run at 60FPS because they can't tell the difference between 60 and 200hz lol so everyone with gaming monitors would then be forced to play at 60hz lol.
Its hilarious how people are spending 800-2k+ on DD wheels and sims are massively under utilising there capacity
I'll never give up ac1,,,,to many cars and tracks and mods,,,at least anytime soon
Sad but true. And now I have that Metallica song stuck in my head.
If they wanted to simulate driving a car with a rubber steering column they nailed it
It might be because I mountain bike but what you feel as a rubbery steering column I feel as a flexing tire and chassis. It conveys a tremendous amount of info and feels more realistic to me. Reminds me of the feel of my mountain bike tires and frame flexing, you get a sense of your grip through it. ACC's and AC Evo's haptics are amazing too on wheels that support it.
@@KirkwoodImaging if you like but there is no feel of when you are losing grip compared to ac and rf2. if you drive near the limit there is no feel before you lose it. not a pushbike sim either is it
don't get me wrong... but you talking bad about every single racing game when it comes to FFB...
but ya nobody knows what he talking about except of you... don't know if that is the right approach but anyway...
you have to take the FFB how it is in any racinggame... there are that not much racing games... so better to learn to deal with it, like we do since FFB exist in racing games.
Sometimes the developers patch FFB for the better after release and sometimes not... only time will tell...
Gmv have you at any point had this discussion with kunos? If yes, what was the response😊
Kunos think of me as an idiot , that won't shut up about FFB and drinks to much tea.
@@GamerMuscleVideos yeah okay, truth hurts 😂
I can not even run a race in EVO without buying a new PC. Sure, I can hot-lap a street car on a race track. WOW... and still, the delays and stuttering happen so often that it is everything BUT enjoyable. I couldn't honestly tell you if the FFB feeling is anything good. I end up enjoying racing in rF2 and LMU, and street car driving in AC. The LA canyons is the most challenging and rewarding track to ever drive for me that the majority of my time on AC is spent there. Hopefully, the EVO game will realize that high-end graphics detail is not the key to realism. It is only a part of it, but the feal of the car is what makes driving fun. Having that feeling change when I chose to drive a 1970s car over a modern RACE car is what 100% of what Sim drivers really want.
Forza actually has very good FFB, its so easy to find, stay on and know when you break the limit of grip in the tyres, The fact that ACE and ACC has absolutely 0 feedback for understeer is the reason i stopped playing ACC, and its also the reason why i refunded AC Evo. The lack of feedback makes those games unplayable.
And to all of you thats gonna reply "yOu jUsT hAvE bAd sEtTiNgS!!"
No, i dont. so dont waste your time. The ffb in ACC and AC E is just bad plain and simple.
I refunded AC Evo since I don't think it brings anything to the table that I'm currently missing from RBR, RF2, LMU and AC1. I really don't understand how a 20 year old sim like RBR with some modding and community effort drives 100x more intense and natural than anything that's come out in the last 4-5 years.
Refunded? Are you that hard up for cash you refunded an early release title??? Evo has a large number of issues but everyone understands it’s a demo really.
Refunding a demo 😂😂😂😂😂
@@jeeziRacer I'll be very happy to buy it back once it's decent enough, don't you worry about my cash situation. I tried it, didn't like it. Will try again later.
@@jeeziRacer I refunded it and used the money to get tokyo xtreme racer, best decision of my life.
@@jeeziRacer Yes Mr Moneybags. Refund is an option if the game doesn't suit you and you prefer to spend your money on something that you would enjoy. Amazing concept.
Thank you for stating this. No one gets it except those that drive real sims. But iRacing you can absolutely drive by feel if you have a capable wheel base
Yep your spot better to have to much detail and dial out then not have enough
Gotta love the cohones of lambasting 99% of the viewers and THEN start the actual video. ;xD
I gotta say, that while I don't feel the same I also wont overlook what you're trying to say. Personally I was expecting EVO to be a GT clone, so I'm not a fanboy, I'm 1-1,5 sec off the top guys pace and definitely don't memorize things into an automated level, you kill my FFB and I'm out the very second.
With this background I've driven quite a bit of ACC, EVO, LMU and AMS2 (little iRacing as well, but it's been a while). Based on this experience I've just found LMU to be very numb, AMS2 so forgiving that you don't need that precision and the ACC/EVO the ones where I can actually adjust my line mid-corner through the pedals based on what I feel and see. It also just literally feels like driving a 1 ton vehicle while the others remind me more of RC cars.
So while I don't maybe feel the intricacies that you are speaking about, the end results that I get from ACC/EVO are closest to what you seem to be yearning. Go figure.
I understand what your saying.
I fall into the category of been shit. And not having had much experience with driving sims.
I hope the Devs improve the Detail.
Personally, i quite like it lol.
I hate you because you are right. I recently went back to AC1, and it was much better then EVO. The qustin is: What can we do with it?
maybe i should play AC1 and AMS1 again....
Can I feel these effects enough with a T300 wheel?
Did you open a thread on AC EVO forum about this issue? Explain in detail what your point is, and you will see other people jumping in the thread and bring up the topic to the devs. I don't have a sim rig at the moment, so I can't say anything about FFB, because I just use a PS4 gamepad.
I spoke to the developer directly at simracing expo , they know my views they mostly just think I'm an idoit and wrong when it comes to FFB.
Im perfectly happy being disliked and thought of as a moron , few things I'm confident in life about but one of the things I am confident is FFB and how amazing it can be and how it can be used to make sims more interesting / which sims have most detailed and usfull FFB.
Its not that likely though. Its easy for them to add more damper range and road detail sliders.
Its already nearly better, in many ways it is. Its just not in others
just watched a youtuber drive in Laguna seca doing very fast laptimes. By turning the wheel 90 degrees in every corner. How can that translate to good ffb and physics?
True tested on VNM base and love the AC1 but never like on simagic 😂 AC1 on telemetry ffb is amazing ,only RF2 can be compared ❤
We need a Niels Heusinkveld to make a video :D
im no fanboy of any sims out there ... but its ffb is the best on certain cars ive driven in all of the sims out there .... bar none ...
obviously it depends on your wheel/settings/preferences ... time you moved on muscle .... EVO for me has nailed it .
my opinion comes from what i would know from real world driving/compared to the games we play .
You have just latched onto a specific wheel feeling , that is separate to actual information or dynamics of the FFB
You can like whatever you want to like , for example you might like no FFB thats fine or even 50% damper on your wheel base thats fine.
That is all sperate to the objective point that it does not have a change of FFB forces for specific parts of driving
It's like somone saying iRacing Tire model NAILS IT FOR ME !! its like great but that does not change the reality of how it behaves at the limit and that not
being at all realistic.
So just be glad you don't understand what's missing and how that's relevant , at the same time your preference should not be used to hold a game back for other people.
@@GamerMuscleVideos as you are a bloke who doesn't drive real cars and plays games ... i can only go on my real world experience from driving cars on how things feel ... thats not knocking your views but only saying from my experience from many years of bad driving of how things should feel !
@@carlgray6764he is a 5k rating driver on iracing and owns 10 direct drive wheel! His opinion is more valid than yours and mine;)
@@zn6zn8maybe carlgray should try Lemans ultimate, then I would understand, what good FFB is... Ac evo's FFB is very disappointing for me at the moment. Yesterday I compared it very intensive with ac1. And what should I say.... Ac1 FFB is far better... But don't forget, ace is early access and we can have the hope for future FFB improvements.
@@mclane78 i have LMU and its good but different from ACE ... remember some cars in ACE have good ffb try the audi ... the only complaint with the ffb is it is very 'weak'
so i have to pump the settings up .
All Sims should focus on translating the forces you get in a real car that you don’t get in a static rig….i don’t want the real power steering forces, as they are numb and lifeless…ergo ACC…the worlds most boring simulator to drive. If ACE feel like ACC, I’ll be sticking with LMU as that is my current favourite for overall driving feel and enjoyment.
I recently drove a 992 GT3 RS around a track. All of my cue’s were coming through my bum and g-force/loads….the steering wheel was secondary. We need to feel the tyres, the weight transfer, car rotation through the wheel…that is what we have bought DD wheels for
I completly agree with your view on the FFB but I think like all things it can be explained better so even new people to simracing can understand what you are talking about. Mo-R-racing did a great job explaining it in his video "Sadly Assetto Corsa EVO FFB Lacks this KEY Detail - Real Driver Explains". This is something everybody can easily test and then compare AC with ACE.
Video link - ruclips.net/video/XHSEAMQgN2c/видео.htmlsi=aLnmlocRORfRQyyw
Keep betting the drum! We have to be lould so change can come!
I am missing a lot of feedback from Evo in ffb on my Thrustmaster GT-II. Only ffb in corners. Otter sims are a lot better.
In 1995 I bought the Bravo fiat 1600-16v very first series, I kept it for 4 years. The power steering was designed to move the wheels of a Massey Ferguson tractor. Nothing was felt through the steering wheel, I got used to driving by gripping the steering wheel only with the tip of the thumb and forefinger of the right and left hand. A Logitech G G29 in comparison has a 20 times more powerful FBB.
I really like ffb in le mans ultimate the best of all sims. Anybody else with the same feeling?
Why cant they just go back to all ffb used in AC it works and is very very good
I believe it uses the same FFB code unfortunately the tire model and suspension changes I think are what have removed the detail , maybe also them having "more realistic" steering rack simulation as well.
The point is the end result not the process though.
Offcourse, you are old man so title fom today/future will ever surpass or get in par with title from 11 years a go. It's natural it happens to us all😅