The next book is finally OUT!!! Really proud of how it turned out. It has completely new information, as I've learned quite a bit about training since the first one. It's focused on improving your hypertrophy-training process and breaking plateaus. It includes an almost SEVEN HOUR audiobook, which I decided to record myself rather than outsourcing. Feedback has been excellent so far. I don't do sponsored videos or have ads on the channel, so I really appreciate the support. I really is YOU who keeps the channel going! Can grab a copy below if it sounds like something you'd be interested in! www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
3:12 "when you are in stage condition...you're not going to look natural".... Um, YES you are Geoffrey! Have you ever seen true natural bodybuilding competitors. They are small, relatively to juicers. 7:49 "I know a lot of enhanced lifters .....who never learned how to train" I'm calling bullsh$t on this one. A lot Geoffrey? Name them. Spotting juicers is easy. Every gym I've ever been at, the juicers have either been a) the biggest guys in the gym, b) the strongest guys in the gym, or c) the most vascular. Natural bodybuilders have significantly less muscle than juicing bodybuilders. A Ronnie Coleman circa 1991 is an outlier not the rule. Most people are the rule. I believe this video, like Nippard's nonsense from 5 years ago about competitors in a "natural" bodybuilding contest, is just self serving natty-washing.
@@averagegymenjoyer You can do a lot naturally, genetic freaks can do a lot more. By definition they are rare. GVS is not s genetic freak. Ask him to explain how a 33 yr old with very average genetics, who has been training intensely to 7-8 yrs, so noobie gains long gone, can suddenly pack on 4-5 Kgs of muscle in 6 months with no strength gains at all?
the higher the standards the higher the average, just look at the progression of powerlifting, gvs has seen first hand the results of proper hard training and time. hopefully these dudes 1yr into lifting will realise what ACTUALLY can be achieved
@@atlaspowershrugged it is high vs low standards. Even our perception of "high achieving naturals" is tainted by our standards of what is naturally achievable. If someone with a super impressive physique claims to be natural, of course you would not believe them, therefore any natural physique above a certain threshold cannot be a "high achieving natural physique". Your examples of what is naturally achievable depend on your willingness to believe in the claims of others
Always found it funny that the internet would look at Silver Era physiques and wondered “what if they knew what we knew about training and nutrition?” But then reject it when we see it happen.
Yea for some reason we think that guys from 80 years ago ... in their early 20s ... who didn't maximize their leg, glute or chest development ... didn't diet seriously ... didn't have access to machines ... didn't have to diet and training knowledge of today... ...to be the most impressive natural physiques attainable, and anything beyond that is automatically juicy.
@@GVS I have a couple of Steve Reeve's books and he absolutely knew how to eat and train. It wasn't the dark ages, he was part of fitness culture in SoCal. He ate a very clean diet all the time, trained 3x a week full body close to failure and rested the other 4 days. If you look at his actual measurements from the 1947 Mr. America (not the fake ones you'll see on forums and articles), he had a 48" chest, 17.5" arms (presumably pumped), and I think 25.5" legs at 6'1", 215ish lb, and around 10% bodyfat. His main genetic advantage was just small waist (31"), those are measurements are very attainable for a taller lifter with relatively broad clavicles.
@@DCJayhawk57 I'm by no means calling him an idiot at all, I'm just saying there has been progress in the past decades in between. If he was around today, I bet he would agree. If I can roughly equal his measurements I don't find it outlandish that the freaks can surpass them significantly. The pool of genetic talent has grown massively.
I wonder why did they even think silver era physiques were not natural? i wonder what is natural in their perspective, like a boxer or swimmers physique is the end all be all for naturals?
@@DCJayhawk57 Tbh when i see steve reeves mostly when he was at peak like Mr America and some of his roles such as hercules i would say he looked massive and very impressive. But ever since he retired and took on acting tbh he still looks good but he really isn't freaky in terms of muscle mass. His arms like you said were about 17 inches, personally i think 16 but it might depend on the year and movies he is in, i have seen some of his picture that tbh can be achieved naturally. Thou i think his main advantage isn't really his muscle size but his structure itself. Dude had wide ass clavicles but IMO the most impressive for me is his ribs, if you have a big torso you look like superman or something. Plus for some reason steeve reeves didn't really look thick if you get me? he was kinda lean especially if you put him to the side, thou if you look at him from the front he is very wide. I dream of his physique but its obviously not attainable for me as i am a 5'9 asian. I can maybe aim for some of his "smaller" Physiques such as these instagram.com/p/CjGq2q9Or6Z/ and you can even see him looking "small" from the sides here instagram.com/p/CjD1YO3Ojeg/
You might want to look into the significance of the #33 with regards to the freemasons and people who control this world. Ronnie didn't choose to say that number randomly.
Steve Reeves is also my major motivation. Congrats on the 17s. Steve Reeves had 17.5" at the 1947 Mr. America and topped out around 18" later on (presumably not in contest condition). I 100% believe Steve was natty, and of the claims that he was using are pretty unfounded speculation. There was a podcast with Eric Helms, I believe, where they covered the history of steroid use, and basically it was highly unlikely anyone was using before the mid 50s, and even then they would have been hard to get and kind of fringe. If it's before 1950, you can assume with high certainty someone is natural.
Geoff I went back and watched your old videos and the progress you have made with your shoulders and overall physique is Incredible, that lit a spark in me to want to train shoulders more seriously and happy coincidence that NH is on the shoulder train now as well.
train every body part more seriously if i can ge to 220lbs natty with health problems then you can its just you need to train your wrists and neck like its a bench press intensity. heres a tip for bigger shoulders rear delt flyes and side raises but pause at the top which is hard and slowly lower as everyone at my gym all do that shit too fast and have small delts.
One thing to remember, steroid use has been common among American football players going back decades, many of them were already experimenting with low amounts as ergogenic aid before changing career path and taking it up a couple of notches as aspiring pro bodybuilders.
The "natty or not" movement was important for informing people that steroid use was a prevalent thing and how use can impact a physique, but the obsession with having to know every single person's status isn't necessary. As naturals we need to move past that and push the envelope of natural physiques. Focus on ourselves and being the best we can be.
@@HerculesFit It's not "THIS" at all. When people who are clearly taking steroids claim to be natty, it's important to call them out. They are frauds. The classic case was the OG Scoobie who for years denied he was taking peds, finally admitted being on trt.
@@iknowmorethangvs9487 Is it? Do we have to expose every fake natty? It's literally impossible. A lot of the time I feel like people who are overly obsessed with exposing fake natties are the fake natties themselves (see Kinobody)
I think lifting also disproportionally attracts a certain group of men who have always been below average regarding frame and baseline musculature, and there's this mindset that simply lifting weight can somehow change the fact you have small bones. Speaking of myself here lol. Despite being decently tall at 6' most women have larger hands/wrists than me. It's sometimes hard to accept your biological limitations. I don't look impressive, but I've also already transformed my physique by going from 125lbs soaking wet to 162lbs fairly lean with a couple years of half assed lifting. In doing so you realize someone starting from a better position who makes the same relative progress will look fucking jacked. You just gotta accept reality and keep struggling so that you squeeze the most out of whatever potential exists within you. Setting aside the very real and obvious problem with the drug use and the lies, the two primary demographics making up lifters are those with natural aptitude who self select into it because they excel, and those looking for a solution to the shit hand nature dealt them, thus the drama.
You also don't realize how different people look in the gym compared to when they go grocery shopping or something. Really opens your eyes. There is a reason why when you are in the gym, you always look better. The pump and the lighting too. Man I wish I could take that lighting and have it follow me 24/7
just take a look at how vitruvian physique looked when he did his show recently, he looked insane and alot of people started doubting him. when u get that lean u LOOK crazy, but ur actually way smaller then when u where at higher bf%
Vitruvian looked perfectly natural though. THAT is an example of lightning and angles etc, whereas everyone in this video except Steve Reeves look impressive cause they are on grams of gear, not just cause of smoke and mirrors. On stage Igor looked DYEL, cause that’s just how actual natural bodybuilding is, you can’t be huge and lean with basketball delts like the fucks in this video.
Great video. The standards of natural physique are definitely screwed up from people believing that Eugen Sandow took steroids to prime Ronnie Coleman being natural. I remember you saying in a video that some people believed Ronnie would never take steroids because he was a policeman. What a wonderful world.
Yeah I’ve seen the Eugen claims before on Reddit. They claimed that he was taking some testosterone serum made from bull testicles or something. These people are just doomers, they will never achieve anything in life and constantly make excuses why people are better than them.
Great video. Very thought-provoking. I think the aspect of natural bodybuilding that makes people the most skeptical is the muscular development combined with the extreme leanness displayed. What people fail to realize is that many of these guys are showing pictures all year long that were often taken in a very short span of time when they were incredibly lean. The illusian of year round leanness helps their brand but hurts the perception of their natty status.
Good point and I'd agree. If I see someone under 10% year round AND making noticeable progress...huge red flag. These guys all spent a good amount of time at slightly higher bodyfat percentages.
On the one hand I agree with the overall sentiment of this video. On the other some of these dudes are IMO not natural. Out of interest do you think Doucette was natural at the times he claimed to be?
@@GVS you say Doucette has no credibility yet you believe Ronnie Coleman? As much of a legend as he is, he has shown himself to be a lying twat on many occasions.
I don’t think Ronnie was natural, but rather that he was just on lower doses, and most importantly, hadn’t touched hgh/insulin yet. I just think a weight of 230 at 5”11 is absurdly high for a lifetime natural at 6-7%BF. I tend to be of the belief that only the absolute genetic elite can exceed a BMI of 25+ while at bodyfat percentage under 7%. Ronnie would be at BMI of like 32 as the above. It’s so many standard deviations above the norm that it really is unbelievable. Also, most people have no idea what it’s like to diet to TRUE 6-7% bf, especially while natural. Because of this, I think most people overestimate how much lean muscle they really hold, and underestimate how much lean mass will be lost going from 12 to 6% bodyfat in the natural bodybuilder. I think it’s much more likely Ronnie was just early on in his steroid use (gains from cycles tend to build off eachother) and likely used simple cycles like: 500-750 test 300-500 deca 30-40mg dbol For him to achieve the size he did on even the above would still be absolutely astounding. You could put 99% of people on the above for a couple cycles and they still wouldn’t look ANYTHING like Ronnie did in 91. And most would be LUCKY to exceed even 25-26 BMI while at true 6-7% BF with the above cycle.
Ronnie was 5'10 198lbs at 7-8% body body fat , he put nearly 95lbs of stage weight and was in way better condition too. You just don't want to believe it because it because you cant ..
Anyways, I do believe going from a simple cycle like the above, to something like the following could account for the increase in size: 12-15iu/day hgh (pharma) 30-40iu/day insulin 1500mg test 1000mg deca 100mg dbol Of course, the above cycle by itself wouldn't account for the entire size increase. Moreso it would be a culmination of all the cycles between 1991-2003 with escalating doses, while slowly adding size/calories/strength. Ronnie himself stated that he was about 235 at the 1995 olympia and 250 at the 1996 Olympia. Everyone looks at his first Olympia win in 1998 as when he amped things up, but clearly he was slowly escalating things each year.
Great video Geoff. I remember when I first started out training everyone was questioning if simeon panda was natural. At the time i was undecided. So I committed to training and diet consistently for 10 years to see how much I could achieve naturally. And 8 years in now after seeing what I've achieved i now believe the like of simeon panda russ ohori are natural. And now I'm the one who gets called a fake natural.
Genetics are such a huge factor that many, myself included, will have natural blindspots towards. The unfortunate fact is that one's ability to effectively (naturally) build muscle, is more analogous to one's ability to obtain a sun tan. Sure you can spend more time in the sun, use the right lotions, eat certain nutrients, etc, but there will be a hard ceiling based on your genetics. Unfortunately muscle building is likely the same. That being said, natural bodybuilding is such a rewarding endeavor, and within an individual the difference between untrained and well-trained is so huge, that everyone should partake regardless of their potential.
Nailed it. We've got guys ranging in height from 1 foot tall all the way up to 9 feet tall. Almost none of us have ever seen that range of heights in real life, but it exists, and sometimes you'll see a bunch of outliers on a professional basketball team. I'm not sure why we aren't assuming the same to be true of natural muscular potential.
Because a random jump in “natural muscular potential” giving PED level results is hilarious and ludicrous. If your body is meant to naturally be large, your body is not sending you signals to be diced up at the same time. Our idea of what looks good makes no sense from a physiological” this would serve you well in the wild” standpoint
The only real problem I see about the fake natural discussion is when they monetize it. Making people believe if they bought this or enroll in that, you'll get the same results. Which is blatantly false.
As far as competence and information, definitely. And there's a renaissance of a sight that stopped after the silver era guys, who didn't even have steroids at hand. Great bodybuilders like Vince Gironda, Reeves etc.
I'm skeptical. There are signs and symptoms of steroid use apart from muscle size that suggest otherwise. But it's all speculation. We can't be 100% certain -- but I bet we can get to 95%. :) Sour grapes mutterings notwithstanding, there's a staggering difference between the Steve Reeves physique and the current steroid physique. Compare to 19th century physiques. And classical Greek sculpture.
To be fair, Zyzz's physique is 100% achievable, he mainly took juice to stay lean. Plus, his training, diet and lifestyle were awful for building muscle.
it's controversial but i think they have probably used steroids in the past but now they're training natural that still makes you bigger, a one time enhanced is always enhanced it can be explained by the fact that steroids are increasing your body's anabolic capacity permanently
Who said you get to keep those gains? You don’t at all. Once you get off and keep training at some point you will shrink back down to natty size. Look at what happend to Larry wheels after he just takes TRT now
Of course it is good to call out fake naturals who are preying on beginners. But if I am being honest, even non-beginners put these people on pedestal because they are big. The only tool these people have is their physique, never learned how to train and don't know the basics how to teach yet selling it to people who are obsessed with them. I believe that those who run to their defense when they are being called out deserve to be scammed by their own heroes because they had multiple chance to learn, always dismissed it. Great video as always Geoff!
it's funny to know that you geoffrey have made so many gains from year to year despite all the folks on the internet stating that you "make 80% of all the muscle you'll ever make in the first 2 years". It's almost like we actually have close to zero frame of reference for what a natty can achieve over 2 decades, we just know that it's a LOT.
The only thing that got me out of the blackpilled minset was seeing my own transformation that I couldn't justify as being natural. However, that was also the one and only transformation I couldn't chalk up on "he's taking stuff and lying about it".
@@user-ll2et5fl6c It's nothing crazy. My standards were very low i was heavily blackpilled lol. I used to think 16" arms was the elite natty limit yet I am there rn and I wouldn't even consider myself to be advanced.
This is probably the key. Sadly, I grow like shit, so it's a hard pill to swallow that some people are just naturally leagues ahead of me in muscle growth potential. But I think avoiding the black pill mindset and accepting that progress is possible for everyone is the way to go.
@@BasedChadman In my experience it comes down to figuring out what works for you. In my experience, hammering down the bodyparts I want to grow with tons of volume like literally insane amounts and working them to and beyond failure daily has worked wonders. (obviously not applicable to whole body at the same time) I do that until they grow and then I can do "normal" work for that bodypart in order to maintain it and I can go crazy on another one. It was a long journey to figure out which exercises and ranges of motion don't mess up my joints, though. Which is why I could never progress doing heavy lifts - my joints can't handle it. My strength is horrible compared the way I look. For reference, I'm fairly tall so I weight about 94kg yet cant even bench my bodyweight. Like you said, it comes down to coming to terms with yourself. I've accepted I will never be strong and I've focused on my actual strong points instead but this took me 5+ years of almost no progress beyond the initial 6-9 months and tons of pains and aches in my joints from running 5x5 type programs.
Honestly I’m in the same boat, I’m bigger than guys who I know have been on the gear since 17/18 and they accuse me of juicing when I know I haven’t. Think that’s why I’ll always rather give people the benefit of the doubt
Yeah, everyone thinks if I talk about steroids that its "he is bigger than me" mentality which is wrong. I use many many aspects to judge such things, and I do not make such judgements off of a picture or a point in time description of their physique. They of course don't know me, but I am someone who gets stretch marks very quickly from working out, and yet I'm not on steroids, while I see people with steroids not getting the same stretch marks. Its takes a whole lot more to make a judgememt than looking at how big they are to me.
You gotta check out B4 Flex's video on ethnicity and athletic performance. He beautifully breaks down what sports each of the major ethnicities seem to be dominant in and why. he talks about why there are so many people of Nigerian/West African decent in not just bodybuilding but powersports in general.
Ok but which is most likely? He has 0.000001% genetics or he is simply lying? I have a big problem with the "he obviously has saiyanjin genetics" argument
Geoff has his head in the clouds. Steroids aren’t just about size, they give a distinct look that simply can’t happen with natural hormones or even with injectable testosterone. You need tren or other anabolics to achieve the juiced out look that these guys have but Geoff still believes it’s just genetics.
It's so hard to gauge anymore with smoke and mirrors on the internet. I see a ton of impressive physique pictures on Instagram, but then you see videos of these people working out and they probably weigh less than 150lbs and barely fill a small t shirt. Not saying this to be mean, just showing how pictures can make you look crazy when you don't look like that in real life.
Especially the teens. You'll see a pic super edited and perfect and they'll look like a monster. Then you see em on video and you're like "oh never mind they're just really really lean"
I think I have bad genetics, but even I as a teenager am over 150 pounds and short. I'm not really lean though, fairly fluffy, but still have some visible abs. So I highly doubt they can't/don't weigh a lot more.
@@adryncharn1910 if you still have some ab definition you're probably fine. I think just more time in the gym is needed. I was similar at 150lbs (I'm 5'7"). I'm now over 190 with more defined abs.
@@john-atallah 190 at 5'7" is really good! I'm 5'5". I don't have access to a gym though. Don't workout much, mainly just do some bodyweight and dumbbell exercises here and there. I hope when I get access to a real gym, I will be able to put on some serious mass.
I really think the normalization of steroid use makes this hard. People who started training in the last 5 years seem more likely to use than if you'd said the same thing 20 years ago. I had a workout partner in college (2003-2007) who would have been accused of being a fake natty now based on his elite genetics. He was 5'10" and only about 160 lb, but had a deep 8 pack, flaring lats, and huge pecs. His workout consisted of running a few days a week, a few days of bench press (3x10 with 155 lb, no progression), pullups to failure (he could do over 20 per set), and suspended hanging situps from a pullup bar. We lived in a scholarship hall where quality nutrition was hard, we didn't have money to dine out hardly at all and didn't buy our own groceries (communal cooking). I just think what he could have achieved if we'd actually known anything about training, nutrition, etc. He had the genetics to be a Classic Physique Olympia caliber guy. What's funny is that when he stopped training (ChemE student) and stuffing his face with whatever junk food he could find, he shriveled and looked like a skinny DYEL. You can't tell someone's genetic limit just by looking at them in an untrained state. Sorry, Greg Doucette. I had another college training partner who was 6'1", 210 lb with 28" legs when we were college freshman. He squatted 500 in high school, ran track, and played football. His family didn't have much money and there's a 0% chance he was taking drugs. A few years later he finally started eating and training his upper body for size and blew up to 240 lb at maybe 18% bodyfat.
He was probably taking superdrol which is an actual anabolic steroids that was sold as an over the counter supplement back around that time, so he probably though he was “natty”. Don’t be so gullible
Guy joined my gym 2 weeks ago from Nigeria, didn’t even know how to do a calve raise. However he wanted to bench with me and I showed him how to bench. Ended benching 100kg for 3 reps and that him benching after few times in his life. I was shocked.
Isn't that pretty normal? The average man is like 200 pounds. And can do 30+ pushups. When you do a pushup, you push about 70% of your bodyweight, 70% of 200 is 140. When I put that in a 1 rep max calculator, you get 280 pounds. Given that the bench press takes a decent amount of stability, that will drop like 40 lbs. So I don't see how 220 for 3 reps is surprising.
@@adryncharn1910 Where on earth does the average man do 30 clean push ups ? Most guys that don't train struggle to do 5-10 push ups . Some of us started even lower I couldn't do 1 push up the first day I started training.
BTW your 87kg physique looked fantastic! If you kept that leanness, added more lats and traps, I'd probably think you were juicing. The ultimate compliment :P
I don't think Russel orhii is natural. He is unbelievably strong on his lifts. Although PED don't affect strength as much as they do muscle mass. Having a 330kg deadlift, a 195kg bench and a 323kg squat is massive especially for someone who is 5 foot 6
Anyone who looks good and comparable to Larry wheels, is not natty. C'mon man. He's arm wrestling him, he's around the same size and he's more shredded than Larry. And you call him natural?
Agreed. No man goes over 220lbs with sub 8% bodyfat natural. Sorry to break it to all of you. But this should be common knowledge by now. Steve Reeves was 6 1" 215lbs competition weight at around 12% bodyfat. Attainable stats for a genetic elite.
Been training consistently for 10 years but i'm pretty sure i'm stuck in the intermediate almost advanced phase from all the injuries accumulated along the way. Everytime i get close to getting back to PRing the injuries come back and i start all over.
You probably just need to prehab those injuries you’re susceptible to. You need to first identify the cause of the injuries which can be a little tricky but not impossible. I had the same thing happen to me when we I started a program that did heavy squats and deadlifts; my lower back would start to ache considerably whenever I get to the moderate-heavy weight during the program and I would just need to stop completely due to the pain. I did some digging and found out it’s most likely due an imbalanced lower back and front core that was causing improper bracing and putting tremendous amount of pressure on the lumbar spine. So once I recovered from the injury I did some front and side ab work (planks, leg raises, windshield wipers) and now I don’t get that type of pain when doing heavy squats/deadlifts.
I remember an uncle type guy commented behind me that I was on Steroids. The reality is, I wasn't on steroids, in fact my diet was also subpar compared to someone who eats good protein sources and can actually fill the protein quota. My physique was also average. In fact my numbers were also pretty average.
Ronnie is a GOAT, but he's lied about different stuff before, for monetary reasons with weird ads about placebo products or for reasons of uplifting his personal image with weird stuff like the .33 comment. I also don't think your argument of "He's the goat, so you can look like that natural" quite applies, since you could apply that logic to any fake natty you idolize. Love ur videos but genuinely feel like you only did that to fit in more with the online fitness community.
6:49 The crazy thing is I've seen the results of low expectations over 20 years, and that's a long ass time. In fact it's enough to take a young yolo to a mature and peaked 40 something. Now I've seen these people over 20 years firstly on forums, then on Facebook and now on discord peddling the same lines. To the point where now if they were to believe anything different it would mean realising they've wasted their entire training lives. Typical HG bs, as a wise man quoting an old man once said 😅
nigeria is a country of 210m people, not including people abroad of nigerian ancestry, but americans use it as shorthand for genetic arguments - just another form of racism/ignorance
@@AdolfHitler-lk4vo That is due to the lack of good nutrition due to poverty. Kids of Nigerian parents who grow up in in the UK and USA always dwarf their parents because of this.
I most likely have below-average genetics when it comes to strength/muscle, plus I started at an older age, plus it took me a while to to come up with a decent program (making my late start an even bigger issue), plus I'm still trying to optimize my diet, plus...but I'm going to see if it's possible for me to look like someone with really good bodybuilding genetics because I'm stubborn & delusional lol. It's motivating to try and achieve something "beyond my capabilities."
Literally was thinking these exact thoughts this morning when I was lifting. Once you have a number of years of lifting under your belt your perception of what's achievable drastically changes.
It’s literally the fitness version of the doomer mindset. It also bleeds into training mindset where they think that if you’re natural you can only do low volume minimalist routines, isolation work is pointless etc. And ofcourse they get awful results because of this.
Come on Ronnie natural when he was as big as 1970s Arnold? Lmao. You gotta be trolling Geoff. Guy said he was... Quote: "0.33 percent dipped in da water" End quote. Am i supposed to trust someone who makes such patently false claims.
@@markbaker4425 Progressive build up of lean tissue, incremental gains made possible by increasing androgen intake while adding other tissue building drugs coupled with incremental increase in protein intake and very heavy training as well as having the genetic makeup to facilitate said gains.
Glad you mentioned lighting and angles. A lot of these people, that's all we're seeing from them, is photos with the best lighting and angles in every picture. And you can't "see" the 5'5'' without other objects for perspective either, so Russ at 190lbs with a low camera angle looks about 275.
Yep. I've seen guys I thought were HUGE then you see them in clothes near other people and they look kinda average. Like Cavaliere looking small next to...Bill Clinton. Then other guys (often powerlifters or strongmen who don't bother staying lean or optimizing photos) they look average in photos then monsters in person.
@@nomaderic It's really hard to believe Russ is natural when most other people I know are natural that are his height are like 30lbs lighter. I just don't really believe it tbh.
Plus with most Silver Era bodybuilders, the lighting was a lot higher than modern lights where if a person on stage wasn't careful, one wrong move and they would be out of the light
Yeah, nothing is as black and white as the media/internet makes it out to be. It is better to have higher expectations on what is achievable natty, but you also need to be careful with not developing body dysmorphia. I am always look at myself and wanting to beat the current version of myself every time. You can never truly know for sure whether someone is actually natty, but it doesn't help to get caught up in that. Focus on yourself and working on getting that upgrade installed on yourself
@@kenpachizaraki3196 The genetic factor is real, but it doesn't give you steroid like results, so let's not get carried away. This guy on the video is on the juice whether you believe it or not. Also since it seems to matter I happen to come from West Africa.
yea lol, ive never actually seen a muscular native african, they are the best runners, but thats what they are, they are slim hunters, they never really had a need to develop strength or hypertrophy
I like this video, and ironically I feel the same way about these guys. Another example is Terron Beckham. Thought that guy was juiced to the gills when I first saw him but I've followed him ever since and I actually think he's natty, just has fucking absurd genetics. Russwole is another good example. The more I've paid attention and progressed myself the higher my standards for what's naturally attainable have risen. I think that's the way, natural lifters should shoot very high and chase very huge goals.
Current Geoffrey, you're nuts, there's no way young Ronnie was natty. He still looks like a full on cartoon character. Old Geoffrey you bought the Steve Reeves thing! Tisk!
Not only is Ronnie the goat but I don’t think we’ll ever see someone who’s peaked in every bodybuilding standard there is. It took his waistline going in the gutter for Jay to finally beat him.
He doesn't look roided just because he's big. He looks roided because his muscle are full AND shredded to the bone. There is no human on earth who can get that dry and still retain the fullness of their muscle without the help of gummy bears.
I definitely don't agree with some of these as someone with a ton of experience myself, but I respect you Geoffrey, saying something like this takes balls
the 90s Ronnie Coleman and Nate Williams being naturals would be the equivalent of someone who is 4 meters tall, they are too lean. genetics do vary but not that much, it's just not possible
My main inspiration for lifting is Greg Plitt and I'm one of the few who believes him to be natural. A lot of the reasons why some suspected him is most of the photos of him online are professionally touched up for magazine covers. But if you look at him in video, you can see that he is lacking the boulder delts and massive traps often seen in PED users. His most developed areas are his abs and his biceps which are some of the best show muscles that can really carry a physique. He took these muscle regions as seriously as powerlifters take their legs. Biceps he used 135lbs for strict curls, and 185lbs for his cheat curls. And for abs he had a lot of unique ways of loading lower ab exercises, and would sometimes head into the gym just to do a 30 minute weighted ab workout. Greg is also the product of a one of a kind mindset of hard work, and over 10+ years of weight training since he was a teen. His stats were 195lbs 6ft 1 so he is actually smaller than many of the guys in your video. I think Greg was the peak natural physique so maybe I have some limiting beliefs but I still find him to be a very high bar to try to reach.
I Mostly Agree , but not to a 100% ! .. So what i am thinking is : why does it have to be "Roided up to the MAX" or "100% Natural" tho ? couldn't it be like they used to take tiny easy stuff lower dosages and then they increased the dosage and added in a lot more dangerous substances ? and that's why their progress just sky rocketed ? .. but again this is just a thought .. that it doesn't have to be either this extreme or non at all .. maybe some of them are in the middle ! .. however it's really funny when people say Silver Era are on PED's .. and i remember NH's saying : Ellooo Steeevee YES i have the secret for BIG Biceps u want it ? :D :D
This is the issue. Why do you care so much? If someone is natural or not. Instead of using all this time and mental energy on researching who's natural or not or what type of drug protocol they might have used. Go and prepare some meals, go to the gym, learning something valuable toward your training
@@mattrobinsonstrengthandfit642 Trust me my Steriod knowledge is -0% .. u're talking to the wrong guy haha ! .. and trust me i am not putting effort or any type of research on it .. and NEVER watched a Natty or not video of any type before (useless and cringe) .. but what i do care about is (Programming and training methods) .. so if someone's claiming natural and training like an Idiot and people follow his advice .. that's when u should care and tell people NO he's on PED's his training won't work for u .. that's when it matters if someone's on PED or Natural .. and when they're trying to mislead people and take their money .. or maybe use the (Authority argument) : "No this IFBB Pro is doing this therefore it's working" . but as far as Drug protocol or types of PED's i am as CLUELESS as it gets ! .. cause i never cared to research it and NEVER will .. 2nd thing .. is the concept itself in the video Aka (nuances) i am just discussing a different point of view in general that it doesn't have to be either Juiced to the max or 100% Natural .. but personally idgaf cause i don't know who most of these people are to begin with ... so don't be too quick to judge that i am that type of guy sitting all day watching Cringe Natty or nots and study drug protocols and never go to apply the training knowledge in the Gym ..u got the wrong idea !
and why would you immediatelly go to the tiny dosage increasing (which btw is a stupid idea) instead of the explanation that some people are natural? I just dont get it. Why go there? It is either - they look so great they cannot be natural or - they look not that great, so they must be taking smaller dosages That is a lose-lose heuristic. How can somebody ever look like a "great natural" if theyre either on more steroids if they look too great or on less steroid if not.
@@98danielray ok so u got the wrong idea of what i am trying to say .. i am just saying there could be nuances in this .. cause yes they could be Natural .. idc tbh .. but what i am saying is : what if some of them used smaller dosages so they looked decent .. and then up the stuff they're taking or took more serious compounds so they got like this .. i am just talking if that's a possibility that there could be a Middle ground .. cause i don't think it's either people using PED's to the Max or they don't touch it at all .. some of them just use less stuff .. and i am not saying "Oh u can't ever look like that Naturally" .. not i am just saying some people could be on the middle ground ... however u have amazing Naturals like GVS , Alpha destiny , NH , Basement BB , etc .. they all look great and i believe they will be even bigger and better by the years ... and their genetics is normal .. so for someone with Amazing genetics ofc they can look amazing naturally ... but again i am just pointing out the nuances that's all ..
I’ve been lifting weights since I was 14 years old, I’m 31 now, I got on testosterone from a doctor at 29 years old, one thing that I always knew is , - you can look big in a xL shirt and be blocky , but look smooth without a shirt - or you can be ripped and 6 pack abs but can’t even fill a medium shirt , and look like you don’t even lift, I rather be blocky and be around 15-20% body fat and be able to fill a XL shirt and be close to 190-200 pounds at 5’5 then to be lean and weigh the same as a girl, how you gonna protect your self or your girlfriend/wife if you weigh the same as a middle school kid, I was a correctional officer in prison and we had a saying “Get your weight up, or get ate up”
Being a big heavy bodybuilder is not good for fighting at all it's a terrible build for fighting and you can get fucked up by people much smaller than you, it's good for intimidation, either you can fight or you can't bodybuilding has nothing to do with it
@@brianbadonde8700 There are plenty of large bodybuilder like physiques that dominate in jujitsu, mma, and pretty much any martial art though. And if it didn't matter, why are there weight divisions then?
@@adryncharn1910 pumped up fools who bodybuild can't fight just because they have a bit of muscle, muscle needs oxygen and big muscles are not an advantage for fighting unless you're naturally that size, as for MMA and jujutsu those sports are full of juice monkeys, a bodybuilder could also happen to be a martial artist and be able to fight but just being a bodybuilder by itself is a hindrance to fighting, it hinders muscular endurance and cardio
Clarence isn’t a power lifter though and he squats ass to grass. Orhi is a short guy with favourable leverages who dedicates his life to 3 lifts and squats just below parallel so 🤷🏻♂️
Hey Geoffry, I really like your content. I started watching the channel to improve my English and simultaneously learn more about bodybuilding. Keep up the good work, I look forward to your next videos!
Dude looks nothing like these guys. He only has big arms and quads, yet he assumes these guys are all natty lmaooo. Go on a cut and try to get to the conditioning they are at so your followers can see what an actual natty physique in competition bodyfat looks like. Lmaoooo
Exactly what i was thinking.. Some natties just have unrealistic expectations if you're natty that's fine but don't go around spewing misleading info about what is attainable naturally honestly.
@@angadgrewal9324 nope. Still nowhere near the conditioning or look that these guys have (because they’re on gear). All he had was pics that were heavily filtered to make him look more defined and he still wasn’t on their level
The thing about Ronnie (early) and Russ that often gets forgotten, is that 1. The camera angle almost always angles upwards, conveying the illusion of greater size along with the lighting manipulations available at the time, and 2. They’d both lose a height contest with Bilbo Baggins
You're wrong with a lot of things, but you were just right with that natty thing. Of course no one is 100% sure if those figures are/were natty or not, but experience and some logic should speak for themselves. Now we all know that you, Geoffrey, suffer from a huge overestimation of yourself, so we take your logic with a large grain of salt.
The next book is finally OUT!!!
Really proud of how it turned out. It has completely new information, as I've learned quite a bit about training since the first one. It's focused on improving your hypertrophy-training process and breaking plateaus. It includes an almost SEVEN HOUR audiobook, which I decided to record myself rather than outsourcing.
Feedback has been excellent so far. I don't do sponsored videos or have ads on the channel, so I really appreciate the support. I really is YOU who keeps the channel going!
Can grab a copy below if it sounds like something you'd be interested in!
www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
Jokes aside, people do not realize what actually is possible to do natural
My favourite is mike o hearn training since 16 look at him at 50 now consistency and hardwork
@@NAVEENCHAURASIYAA you're joking right?
3:12 "when you are in stage condition...you're not going to look natural".... Um, YES you are Geoffrey! Have you ever seen true natural bodybuilding competitors. They are small, relatively to juicers.
7:49 "I know a lot of enhanced lifters .....who never learned how to train" I'm calling bullsh$t on this one. A lot Geoffrey? Name them.
Spotting juicers is easy. Every gym I've ever been at, the juicers have either been a) the biggest guys in the gym, b) the strongest guys in the gym, or c) the most vascular. Natural bodybuilders have significantly less muscle than juicing bodybuilders. A Ronnie Coleman circa 1991 is an outlier not the rule. Most people are the rule.
I believe this video, like Nippard's nonsense from 5 years ago about competitors in a "natural" bodybuilding contest, is just self serving natty-washing.
@@averagegymenjoyer You can do a lot naturally, genetic freaks can do a lot more. By definition they are rare.
GVS is not s genetic freak. Ask him to explain how a 33 yr old with very average genetics, who has been training intensely to 7-8 yrs, so noobie gains long gone, can suddenly pack on 4-5 Kgs of muscle in 6 months with no strength gains at all?
These are some HOT takes. I would rather have standards that are a little high than low. Props for putting this out!
It isn't high vs low standards. Extremely high achieving naturals achieve differently than enhanced lifters.
the higher the standards the higher the average, just look at the progression of powerlifting, gvs has seen first hand the results of proper hard training and time. hopefully these dudes 1yr into lifting will realise what ACTUALLY can be achieved
@@atlaspowershrugged it is high vs low standards. Even our perception of "high achieving naturals" is tainted by our standards of what is naturally achievable. If someone with a super impressive physique claims to be natural, of course you would not believe them, therefore any natural physique above a certain threshold cannot be a "high achieving natural physique". Your examples of what is naturally achievable depend on your willingness to believe in the claims of others
@@grottphd9090 yep, you don't have a phd for nothing lol
Always found it funny that the internet would look at Silver Era physiques and wondered “what if they knew what we knew about training and nutrition?” But then reject it when we see it happen.
Yea for some reason we think that guys
from 80 years ago ...
in their early 20s ...
who didn't maximize their leg, glute or chest development ...
didn't diet seriously ...
didn't have access to machines ...
didn't have to diet and training knowledge of today...
...to be the most impressive natural physiques attainable, and anything beyond that is automatically juicy.
@@GVS I have a couple of Steve Reeve's books and he absolutely knew how to eat and train. It wasn't the dark ages, he was part of fitness culture in SoCal. He ate a very clean diet all the time, trained 3x a week full body close to failure and rested the other 4 days.
If you look at his actual measurements from the 1947 Mr. America (not the fake ones you'll see on forums and articles), he had a 48" chest, 17.5" arms (presumably pumped), and I think 25.5" legs at 6'1", 215ish lb, and around 10% bodyfat. His main genetic advantage was just small waist (31"), those are measurements are very attainable for a taller lifter with relatively broad clavicles.
@@DCJayhawk57 I'm by no means calling him an idiot at all, I'm just saying there has been progress in the past decades in between. If he was around today, I bet he would agree. If I can roughly equal his measurements I don't find it outlandish that the freaks can surpass them significantly. The pool of genetic talent has grown massively.
I wonder why did they even think silver era physiques were not natural? i wonder what is natural in their perspective, like a boxer or swimmers physique is the end all be all for naturals?
@@DCJayhawk57 Tbh when i see steve reeves mostly when he was at peak like Mr America and some of his roles such as hercules i would say he looked massive and very impressive. But ever since he retired and took on acting tbh he still looks good but he really isn't freaky in terms of muscle mass. His arms like you said were about 17 inches, personally i think 16 but it might depend on the year and movies he is in, i have seen some of his picture that tbh can be achieved naturally. Thou i think his main advantage isn't really his muscle size but his structure itself. Dude had wide ass clavicles but IMO the most impressive for me is his ribs, if you have a big torso you look like superman or something. Plus for some reason steeve reeves didn't really look thick if you get me? he was kinda lean especially if you put him to the side, thou if you look at him from the front he is very wide. I dream of his physique but its obviously not attainable for me as i am a 5'9 asian. I can maybe aim for some of his "smaller" Physiques such as these instagram.com/p/CjGq2q9Or6Z/ and you can even see him looking "small" from the sides here instagram.com/p/CjD1YO3Ojeg/
Joe: “What body fat percentage were you?”
Ronnie: “I was .33”
Joe: “What does that even mean?”
Negative body fat!
Ronnie was so shredded. Remember Dexter scans can be so so inaccurate so it came out as 0.33
You might want to look into the significance of the #33 with regards to the freemasons and people who control this world. Ronnie didn't choose to say that number randomly.
@@SUPREMELEGEND there are 7 hidden cameras tracking your every move in the 200 meter vicinity
@@haellm9192 good.
Just hit 17 inch arms! And it has really motivated me on what is possible for me naturally.
Steve reeves is my major motivation.
Steve Reeves is also my major motivation. Congrats on the 17s. Steve Reeves had 17.5" at the 1947 Mr. America and topped out around 18" later on (presumably not in contest condition).
I 100% believe Steve was natty, and of the claims that he was using are pretty unfounded speculation. There was a podcast with Eric Helms, I believe, where they covered the history of steroid use, and basically it was highly unlikely anyone was using before the mid 50s, and even then they would have been hard to get and kind of fringe. If it's before 1950, you can assume with high certainty someone is natural.
Is it possible for 17 inch Arms naturally just asking.
@@birinderwarraich1179 well, I just hit 17 inches and I'm natty.
@@nonattylimits Right behind you, brother.
16.5" pumped and working hard at it.
@@chaosdisciple3052 nice job man, be patient and don't be afraid to bulk into the measurement.
Geoff I went back and watched your old videos and the progress you have made with your shoulders and overall physique is Incredible, that lit a spark in me to want to train shoulders more seriously and happy coincidence that NH is on the shoulder train now as well.
train every body part more seriously if i can ge to 220lbs natty with health problems then you can its just you need to train your wrists and neck like its a bench press intensity. heres a tip for bigger shoulders rear delt flyes and side raises but pause at the top which is hard and slowly lower as everyone at my gym all do that shit too fast and have small delts.
One thing to remember, steroid use has been common among American football players going back decades, many of them were already experimenting with low amounts as ergogenic aid before changing career path and taking it up a couple of notches as aspiring pro bodybuilders.
Orals for high school football players is insane, but they did it.
@@a-a-rondavis9438 Was pretty much legal too, up until 1990. Supplied through coaches via doctors.
Steroids mades so many American heroes
@@IronWarrior86 so weird to think that some sophomore was popping dbol because coach wants a state championship team lol.
@@a-a-rondavis9438 It's kinda crazy if you think about it, but different times, different mindsets... i guess.
Number 1: Ronnie Coleman
Wait a minute I commented this as a joke 😂
The "natty or not" movement was important for informing people that steroid use was a prevalent thing and how use can impact a physique, but the obsession with having to know every single person's status isn't necessary.
As naturals we need to move past that and push the envelope of natural physiques. Focus on ourselves and being the best we can be.
THIS!
@@HerculesFit It's not "THIS" at all. When people who are clearly taking steroids claim to be natty, it's important to call them out. They are frauds.
The classic case was the OG Scoobie who for years denied he was taking peds, finally admitted being on trt.
@@iknowmorethangvs9487 Is it? Do we have to expose every fake natty? It's literally impossible. A lot of the time I feel like people who are overly obsessed with exposing fake natties are the fake natties themselves (see Kinobody)
@@iknowmorethangvs9487 another noble natty in his natural habitat relax dude😂😂😂😂😂
All I see are the destructive consequences of the natty or not movement, it's difficult for me to see any benefits.
I think lifting also disproportionally attracts a certain group of men who have always been below average regarding frame and baseline musculature, and there's this mindset that simply lifting weight can somehow change the fact you have small bones. Speaking of myself here lol. Despite being decently tall at 6' most women have larger hands/wrists than me. It's sometimes hard to accept your biological limitations. I don't look impressive, but I've also already transformed my physique by going from 125lbs soaking wet to 162lbs fairly lean with a couple years of half assed lifting. In doing so you realize someone starting from a better position who makes the same relative progress will look fucking jacked. You just gotta accept reality and keep struggling so that you squeeze the most out of whatever potential exists within you. Setting aside the very real and obvious problem with the drug use and the lies, the two primary demographics making up lifters are those with natural aptitude who self select into it because they excel, and those looking for a solution to the shit hand nature dealt them, thus the drama.
Lifting makes your bones thicker also, I think, at least the case with those who are on gear
My guy forgot about Mike O'hearn and Greg Doucette
Didn't Greg start early
You also don't realize how different people look in the gym compared to when they go grocery shopping or something. Really opens your eyes. There is a reason why when you are in the gym, you always look better. The pump and the lighting too. Man I wish I could take that lighting and have it follow me 24/7
just take a look at how vitruvian physique looked when he did his show recently, he looked insane and alot of people started doubting him. when u get that lean u LOOK crazy, but ur actually way smaller then when u where at higher bf%
Yep. The leaner you get, the more steroid accusations you get. None of these guys would get any doubts at 15-20%.
Vitruvian looked perfectly natural though. THAT is an example of lightning and angles etc, whereas everyone in this video except Steve Reeves look impressive cause they are on grams of gear, not just cause of smoke and mirrors. On stage Igor looked DYEL, cause that’s just how actual natural bodybuilding is, you can’t be huge and lean with basketball delts like the fucks in this video.
@@KillerAri yea Igor is also don't have west African genetics stop comparing everyone like they're the same
@@KillerAri this is why natural bodybuilding is a joke. natty brahs don't look good at 7% bodyfat.
say it w me lads, *we're thick and we're proud*
@@MonkeyBarsEveryday 18% bf brigade homie!
Great video.
The standards of natural physique are definitely screwed up from people believing that Eugen Sandow took steroids to prime Ronnie Coleman being natural.
I remember you saying in a video that some people believed Ronnie would never take steroids because he was a policeman.
What a wonderful world.
Yeah I’ve seen the Eugen claims before on Reddit. They claimed that he was taking some testosterone serum made from bull testicles or something. These people are just doomers, they will never achieve anything in life and constantly make excuses why people are better than them.
people believed eugen sandow took steriods?!?!?! what the hell do they think is possible natural? a stick?
Great video. Very thought-provoking. I think the aspect of natural bodybuilding that makes people the most skeptical is the muscular development combined with the extreme leanness displayed. What people fail to realize is that many of these guys are showing pictures all year long that were often taken in a very short span of time when they were incredibly lean. The illusian of year round leanness helps their brand but hurts the perception of their natty status.
Good point and I'd agree. If I see someone under 10% year round AND making noticeable progress...huge red flag. These guys all spent a good amount of time at slightly higher bodyfat percentages.
On the one hand I agree with the overall sentiment of this video. On the other some of these dudes are IMO not natural.
Out of interest do you think Doucette was natural at the times he claimed to be?
Considering his history I wouldn't trust any of his claims at this point. He has no credibility.
@@GVS definitely agree with that much
@@GVS you say Doucette has no credibility yet you believe Ronnie Coleman? As much of a legend as he is, he has shown himself to be a lying twat on many occasions.
I don’t think Ronnie was natural, but rather that he was just on lower doses, and most importantly, hadn’t touched hgh/insulin yet. I just think a weight of 230 at 5”11 is absurdly high for a lifetime natural at 6-7%BF.
I tend to be of the belief that only the absolute genetic elite can exceed a BMI of 25+ while at bodyfat percentage under 7%. Ronnie would be at BMI of like 32 as the above. It’s so many standard deviations above the norm that it really is unbelievable.
Also, most people have no idea what it’s like to diet to TRUE 6-7% bf, especially while natural. Because of this, I think most people overestimate how much lean muscle they really hold, and underestimate how much lean mass will be lost going from 12 to 6% bodyfat in the natural bodybuilder.
I think it’s much more likely Ronnie was just early on in his steroid use (gains from cycles tend to build off eachother) and likely used simple cycles like:
500-750 test
300-500 deca
30-40mg dbol
For him to achieve the size he did on even the above would still be absolutely astounding. You could put 99% of people on the above for a couple cycles and they still wouldn’t look ANYTHING like Ronnie did in 91. And most would be LUCKY to exceed even 25-26 BMI while at true 6-7% BF with the above cycle.
Ronnie was 5'10 198lbs at 7-8% body body fat , he put nearly 95lbs of stage weight and was in way better condition too. You just don't want to believe it because it because you cant ..
Anyways, I do believe going from a simple cycle like the above, to something like the following could account for the increase in size:
12-15iu/day hgh (pharma)
30-40iu/day insulin
1500mg test
1000mg deca
100mg dbol
Of course, the above cycle by itself wouldn't account for the entire size increase. Moreso it would be a culmination of all the cycles between 1991-2003 with escalating doses, while slowly adding size/calories/strength.
Ronnie himself stated that he was about 235 at the 1995 olympia and 250 at the 1996 Olympia. Everyone looks at his first Olympia win in 1998 as when he amped things up, but clearly he was slowly escalating things each year.
Damn, that clicking the bell really do be giving you upload notifications.
Great video Geoff. I remember when I first started out training everyone was questioning if simeon panda was natural. At the time i was undecided. So I committed to training and diet consistently for 10 years to see how much I could achieve naturally. And 8 years in now after seeing what I've achieved i now believe the like of simeon panda russ ohori are natural. And now I'm the one who gets called a fake natural.
Which world are you living in where Simeon Panda is natural
Genetics are such a huge factor that many, myself included, will have natural blindspots towards. The unfortunate fact is that one's ability to effectively (naturally) build muscle, is more analogous to one's ability to obtain a sun tan. Sure you can spend more time in the sun, use the right lotions, eat certain nutrients, etc, but there will be a hard ceiling based on your genetics. Unfortunately muscle building is likely the same.
That being said, natural bodybuilding is such a rewarding endeavor, and within an individual the difference between untrained and well-trained is so huge, that everyone should partake regardless of their potential.
Nailed it. We've got guys ranging in height from 1 foot tall all the way up to 9 feet tall. Almost none of us have ever seen that range of heights in real life, but it exists, and sometimes you'll see a bunch of outliers on a professional basketball team. I'm not sure why we aren't assuming the same to be true of natural muscular potential.
Because a random jump in “natural muscular potential” giving PED level results is hilarious and ludicrous. If your body is meant to naturally be large, your body is not sending you signals to be diced up at the same time. Our idea of what looks good makes no sense from a physiological” this would serve you well in the wild” standpoint
The only real problem I see about the fake natural discussion is when they monetize it. Making people believe if they bought this or enroll in that, you'll get the same results. Which is blatantly false.
Very refreshing video. It really is a shame how the enhanced scene has messed with peoples’ perceptions (amongst other things)
09:45 it turned out the Kenyans were using EPO all the time.... just FYI
but muh bbc genetics
Nate is definitely not natural you’re wrong about that one
If those dudes are natty so is Joshua David Taubes. lmao
As Standstreght said: The true Golden/Platinum bodybuilding era is happening right now and it's natty
As far as competence and information, definitely. And there's a renaissance of a sight that stopped after the silver era guys, who didn't even have steroids at hand. Great bodybuilders like Vince Gironda, Reeves etc.
I'm skeptical. There are signs and symptoms of steroid use apart from muscle size that suggest otherwise. But it's all speculation. We can't be 100% certain -- but I bet we can get to 95%. :)
Sour grapes mutterings notwithstanding, there's a staggering difference between the Steve Reeves physique and the current steroid physique. Compare to 19th century physiques. And classical Greek sculpture.
It's the same for me with rich piana and zyzz, those guys were legit, you just need hard work and genetics
To be fair, Zyzz's physique is 100% achievable, he mainly took juice to stay lean. Plus, his training, diet and lifestyle were awful for building muscle.
Im not doing steroids... Im "gifted"...
the one on drugs here was geoffrey making this video. also keep the good work 😆
it's controversial but i think they have probably used steroids in the past but now they're training natural that still makes you bigger, a one time enhanced is always enhanced it can be explained by the fact that steroids are increasing your body's anabolic capacity permanently
Who said you get to keep those gains? You don’t at all. Once you get off and keep training at some point you will shrink back down to natty size. Look at what happend to Larry wheels after he just takes TRT now
@@Gererostrength read more
@@Gererostrength it increases the satellite cells in your muscles permanently. giving you a higher muscular ceiling and responding better to exercise.
Of course it is good to call out fake naturals who are preying on beginners. But if I am being honest, even non-beginners put these people on pedestal because they are big.
The only tool these people have is their physique, never learned how to train and don't know the basics how to teach yet selling it to people who are obsessed with them.
I believe that those who run to their defense when they are being called out deserve to be scammed by their own heroes because they had multiple chance to learn, always dismissed it.
Great video as always Geoff!
Never heard of some of these but Nate williams natural? At that point you might just assume everyone is natural
When I first saw Peter Khatcherian, I changed my mind about what's possible without drugs
it's funny to know that you geoffrey have made so many gains from year to year despite all the folks on the internet stating that you "make 80% of all the muscle you'll ever make in the first 2 years".
It's almost like we actually have close to zero frame of reference for what a natty can achieve over 2 decades, we just know that it's a LOT.
I get what you’re saying, but nah. 😂
"You can't become Kenyan.... But you can become enhanced."
This is the perfect moment for you to start selling merch.
Ronnie and Nate I question heavily. Steve I think is definitely natty. The last two I think could be natural.
Some other notable natties are Mike O'Hearn, Jay Cutler and Nick Walker. Great Video!
The only thing that got me out of the blackpilled minset was seeing my own transformation that I couldn't justify as being natural. However, that was also the one and only transformation I couldn't chalk up on "he's taking stuff and lying about it".
I kinda wanna see your transformation now
@@user-ll2et5fl6c It's nothing crazy. My standards were very low i was heavily blackpilled lol. I used to think 16" arms was the elite natty limit yet I am there rn and I wouldn't even consider myself to be advanced.
This is probably the key. Sadly, I grow like shit, so it's a hard pill to swallow that some people are just naturally leagues ahead of me in muscle growth potential.
But I think avoiding the black pill mindset and accepting that progress is possible for everyone is the way to go.
@@BasedChadman In my experience it comes down to figuring out what works for you. In my experience, hammering down the bodyparts I want to grow with tons of volume like literally insane amounts and working them to and beyond failure daily has worked wonders. (obviously not applicable to whole body at the same time) I do that until they grow and then I can do "normal" work for that bodypart in order to maintain it and I can go crazy on another one. It was a long journey to figure out which exercises and ranges of motion don't mess up my joints, though. Which is why I could never progress doing heavy lifts - my joints can't handle it. My strength is horrible compared the way I look. For reference, I'm fairly tall so I weight about 94kg yet cant even bench my bodyweight.
Like you said, it comes down to coming to terms with yourself. I've accepted I will never be strong and I've focused on my actual strong points instead but this took me 5+ years of almost no progress beyond the initial 6-9 months and tons of pains and aches in my joints from running 5x5 type programs.
Honestly I’m in the same boat, I’m bigger than guys who I know have been on the gear since 17/18 and they accuse me of juicing when I know I haven’t. Think that’s why I’ll always rather give people the benefit of the doubt
Yeah, everyone thinks if I talk about steroids that its "he is bigger than me" mentality which is wrong.
I use many many aspects to judge such things, and I do not make such judgements off of a picture or a point in time description of their physique.
They of course don't know me, but I am someone who gets stretch marks very quickly from working out, and yet I'm not on steroids, while I see people with steroids not getting the same stretch marks. Its takes a whole lot more to make a judgememt than looking at how big they are to me.
You gotta check out B4 Flex's video on ethnicity and athletic performance. He beautifully breaks down what sports each of the major ethnicities seem to be dominant in and why. he talks about why there are so many people of Nigerian/West African decent in not just bodybuilding but powersports in general.
Nigerians are up there but I think there are even better Africans at bodybuilding. Both New Ginea and Angola.
Ok but which is most likely? He has 0.000001% genetics or he is simply lying? I have a big problem with the "he obviously has saiyanjin genetics" argument
Geoff has his head in the clouds. Steroids aren’t just about size, they give a distinct look that simply can’t happen with natural hormones or even with injectable testosterone. You need tren or other anabolics to achieve the juiced out look that these guys have but Geoff still believes it’s just genetics.
There are too many people these days with "saiyanjin genetics" to give benefit of the doubt to.
A lot more than 7 people with supposed one in a billion genetics
It's so hard to gauge anymore with smoke and mirrors on the internet. I see a ton of impressive physique pictures on Instagram, but then you see videos of these people working out and they probably weigh less than 150lbs and barely fill a small t shirt.
Not saying this to be mean, just showing how pictures can make you look crazy when you don't look like that in real life.
Especially the teens. You'll see a pic super edited and perfect and they'll look like a monster. Then you see em on video and you're like "oh never mind they're just really really lean"
Yep i see pics of dudes lookin crazy on insta, then go to the same gym as them and theyre string beans, lean little twinks lol.
I think I have bad genetics, but even I as a teenager am over 150 pounds and short. I'm not really lean though, fairly fluffy, but still have some visible abs. So I highly doubt they can't/don't weigh a lot more.
@@adryncharn1910 if you still have some ab definition you're probably fine. I think just more time in the gym is needed. I was similar at 150lbs (I'm 5'7"). I'm now over 190 with more defined abs.
@@john-atallah 190 at 5'7" is really good! I'm 5'5". I don't have access to a gym though. Don't workout much, mainly just do some bodyweight and dumbbell exercises here and there. I hope when I get access to a real gym, I will be able to put on some serious mass.
one thing to mention is that i think that nate williams do a bro split, for the ones that say that with that routine you can't progress
I really think the normalization of steroid use makes this hard. People who started training in the last 5 years seem more likely to use than if you'd said the same thing 20 years ago.
I had a workout partner in college (2003-2007) who would have been accused of being a fake natty now based on his elite genetics. He was 5'10" and only about 160 lb, but had a deep 8 pack, flaring lats, and huge pecs. His workout consisted of running a few days a week, a few days of bench press (3x10 with 155 lb, no progression), pullups to failure (he could do over 20 per set), and suspended hanging situps from a pullup bar. We lived in a scholarship hall where quality nutrition was hard, we didn't have money to dine out hardly at all and didn't buy our own groceries (communal cooking). I just think what he could have achieved if we'd actually known anything about training, nutrition, etc. He had the genetics to be a Classic Physique Olympia caliber guy. What's funny is that when he stopped training (ChemE student) and stuffing his face with whatever junk food he could find, he shriveled and looked like a skinny DYEL.
You can't tell someone's genetic limit just by looking at them in an untrained state. Sorry, Greg Doucette.
I had another college training partner who was 6'1", 210 lb with 28" legs when we were college freshman. He squatted 500 in high school, ran track, and played football. His family didn't have much money and there's a 0% chance he was taking drugs. A few years later he finally started eating and training his upper body for size and blew up to 240 lb at maybe 18% bodyfat.
He was probably taking superdrol which is an actual anabolic steroids that was sold as an over the counter supplement back around that time, so he probably though he was “natty”.
Don’t be so gullible
Guy joined my gym 2 weeks ago from Nigeria, didn’t even know how to do a calve raise. However he wanted to bench with me and I showed him how to bench. Ended benching 100kg for 3 reps and that him benching after few times in his life. I was shocked.
@Help lmao
Isn't that pretty normal? The average man is like 200 pounds. And can do 30+ pushups. When you do a pushup, you push about 70% of your bodyweight, 70% of 200 is 140. When I put that in a 1 rep max calculator, you get 280 pounds. Given that the bench press takes a decent amount of stability, that will drop like 40 lbs. So I don't see how 220 for 3 reps is surprising.
@@adryncharn1910 Where on earth does the average man do 30 clean push ups ? Most guys that don't train struggle to do 5-10 push ups . Some of us started even lower I couldn't do 1 push up the first day I started training.
@@adryncharn1910 Lmao You clearly haven't spent any time in a gym. Get off the internet and 1RM calculators and go push 100Kgs to start.
maybe he did a lot of manual labor work
Steve Reeves was of course natural but the other guys on this are definitely on the sauce.😂😂
Nah it’s crazy what some people with blesses genetics and a good work ethic are capable of
@@mattc6015 I am not convinced, except for Reeves the rest on some juice and as for Coleman being natural you must be mad.
@@kieranmurraysnaturalstreng5913 I mean clearly no for Olympia Ronnie but others I can believe
BTW your 87kg physique looked fantastic! If you kept that leanness, added more lats and traps, I'd probably think you were juicing. The ultimate compliment :P
Small joints with developed muscle will make someone appear MUCH bigger than they actually are
i can't believe this type of negativity is even allowed on the internet. how dare you say i cannot become Kenyan, it has been my lifelong dream.
I don't think Russel orhii is natural. He is unbelievably strong on his lifts. Although PED don't affect strength as much as they do muscle mass. Having a 330kg deadlift, a 195kg bench and a 323kg squat is massive especially for someone who is 5 foot 6
It's all clear now! Geof is on the sauce.
🤓
Anyone who looks good and comparable to Larry wheels, is not natty. C'mon man. He's arm wrestling him, he's around the same size and he's more shredded than Larry. And you call him natural?
Naturals can get just as shredded as enhanced lifters. Look at any natural show, the top guys are peeled. It just takes longer.
@@GVS 🤦♂️
@@GVS rare time when you're wrong
“You cannot become Kenyan “
Fuck, and there goes my afternoon plans.
Ronnie Coleman is my favourite natural vegan calisthenics athlete
8:44 OMG THE HEMINGWAY ROAST YOU LOVE TO SEE IT
Out of all of these only Steve Reeves was natty.
Agreed. No man goes over 220lbs with sub 8% bodyfat natural. Sorry to break it to all of you. But this should be common knowledge by now.
Steve Reeves was 6 1" 215lbs competition weight at around 12% bodyfat. Attainable stats for a genetic elite.
Didn’t most of the long distance runner winners in the past.. however long get popped for steroids at some point?
In literally every sport, top competitors get popped all the time. No one is fucking natural.
jeff, russwole come on man, hes 210 lean at 5'6. guy squats and deadlifts over 700lb just because hes black im not fuckin buying that one bit
Been training consistently for 10 years but i'm pretty sure i'm stuck in the intermediate almost advanced phase from all the injuries accumulated along the way. Everytime i get close to getting back to PRing the injuries come back and i start all over.
You probably just need to prehab those injuries you’re susceptible to. You need to first identify the cause of the injuries which can be a little tricky but not impossible.
I had the same thing happen to me when we I started a program that did heavy squats and deadlifts; my lower back would start to ache considerably whenever I get to the moderate-heavy weight during the program and I would just need to stop completely due to the pain. I did some digging and found out it’s most likely due an imbalanced lower back and front core that was causing improper bracing and putting tremendous amount of pressure on the lumbar spine. So once I recovered from the injury I did some front and side ab work (planks, leg raises, windshield wipers) and now I don’t get that type of pain when doing heavy squats/deadlifts.
I remember an uncle type guy commented behind me that I was on Steroids. The reality is, I wasn't on steroids, in fact my diet was also subpar compared to someone who eats good protein sources and can actually fill the protein quota. My physique was also average. In fact my numbers were also pretty average.
Ronnie is a GOAT, but he's lied about different stuff before, for monetary reasons with weird ads about placebo products or for reasons of uplifting his personal image with weird stuff like the .33 comment. I also don't think your argument of "He's the goat, so you can look like that natural" quite applies, since you could apply that logic to any fake natty you idolize. Love ur videos but genuinely feel like you only did that to fit in more with the online fitness community.
Lmao Blahino at 8:45, I nearly spat out my coffee
6:49 The crazy thing is I've seen the results of low expectations over 20 years, and that's a long ass time. In fact it's enough to take a young yolo to a mature and peaked 40 something.
Now I've seen these people over 20 years firstly on forums, then on Facebook and now on discord peddling the same lines. To the point where now if they were to believe anything different it would mean realising they've wasted their entire training lives.
Typical HG bs, as a wise man quoting an old man once said 😅
nigeria is a country of 210m people, not including people abroad of nigerian ancestry, but americans use it as shorthand for genetic arguments - just another form of racism/ignorance
I'm well aware it's a country...
nigeria is a country with average height of 5'5 lol
@@AdolfHitler-lk4vo That is due to the lack of good nutrition due to poverty. Kids of Nigerian parents who grow up in in the UK and USA always dwarf their parents because of this.
@@richard7409 suuure
@@AdolfHitler-lk4vo if saying a true statent makes you crumble like this, you should get off the keyboard, my guy
I most likely have below-average genetics when it comes to strength/muscle, plus I started at an older age, plus it took me a while to to come up with a decent program (making my late start an even bigger issue), plus I'm still trying to optimize my diet, plus...but I'm going to see if it's possible for me to look like someone with really good bodybuilding genetics because I'm stubborn & delusional lol.
It's motivating to try and achieve something "beyond my capabilities."
Literally was thinking these exact thoughts this morning when I was lifting. Once you have a number of years of lifting under your belt your perception of what's achievable drastically changes.
It’s literally the fitness version of the doomer mindset. It also bleeds into training mindset where they think that if you’re natural you can only do low volume minimalist routines, isolation work is pointless etc. And ofcourse they get awful results because of this.
Come on Ronnie natural when he was as big as 1970s Arnold? Lmao. You gotta be trolling Geoff. Guy said he was... Quote: "0.33 percent dipped in da water" End quote. Am i supposed to trust someone who makes such patently false claims.
How did he put on another 100 pounds of muscle if he was already blasting though?
@@markbaker4425 Progressive build up of lean tissue, incremental gains made possible by increasing androgen intake while adding other tissue building drugs coupled with incremental increase in protein intake and very heavy training as well as having the genetic makeup to facilitate said gains.
Glad you mentioned lighting and angles. A lot of these people, that's all we're seeing from them, is photos with the best lighting and angles in every picture. And you can't "see" the 5'5'' without other objects for perspective either, so Russ at 190lbs with a low camera angle looks about 275.
Yep. I've seen guys I thought were HUGE then you see them in clothes near other people and they look kinda average. Like Cavaliere looking small next to...Bill Clinton.
Then other guys (often powerlifters or strongmen who don't bother staying lean or optimizing photos) they look average in photos then monsters in person.
Yea seeing russ for the first time on the gram you would think hes like 250 when he's really like 185 190
@@nomaderic It's really hard to believe Russ is natural when most other people I know are natural that are his height are like 30lbs lighter. I just don't really believe it tbh.
@@adryncharn1910 it's a tough call, I can't say for certain, but I think he's honestly just one of those rare super freak people.
Plus with most Silver Era bodybuilders, the lighting was a lot higher than modern lights where if a person on stage wasn't careful, one wrong move and they would be out of the light
Yeah, nothing is as black and white as the media/internet makes it out to be. It is better to have higher expectations on what is achievable natty, but you also need to be careful with not developing body dysmorphia. I am always look at myself and wanting to beat the current version of myself every time. You can never truly know for sure whether someone is actually natty, but it doesn't help to get caught up in that. Focus on yourself and working on getting that upgrade installed on yourself
IMO steve reeves was very likely drug-free, not the others presented in this vid. Just my two cents.
I'm assuming that this video is Geoff trolling but I can get behind your statement
Learn about west African genetics before pushing an opinion on stuff you know nothing about
@@kenpachizaraki3196 west African genetics can’t beat 2g of gear
@@kenpachizaraki3196 The genetic factor is real, but it doesn't give you steroid like results, so let's not get carried away.
This guy on the video is on the juice whether you believe it or not.
Also since it seems to matter I happen to come from West Africa.
Reeves was the only natural presented in this video. What a laugh thinking those massive roid junkies are natural hahahaha
From now on I'm gonna hop on the sauzule and just claim I'm African. Plain ridiculous BS that's being propagandized nowadays.
yea lol, ive never actually seen a muscular native african, they are the best runners, but thats what they are, they are slim hunters, they never really had a need to develop strength or hypertrophy
@@AdolfHitler-lk4vo also what a taken from ass speculative broscience evopsych explanation
@@AdolfHitler-lk4vo no tbh one of my Ghanian friends is 85 kgs and has visible abs at 5ft7 but he is the only 1 with that kind of body
@@AdolfHitler-lk4vo thats east african. west africans have the muscular genes.
@@MC-nt7jz why expect Adolf Hitler to care about ethnic diversity in Africa
If these guys are natural then so is Mike o Hearn.
I like this video, and ironically I feel the same way about these guys. Another example is Terron Beckham. Thought that guy was juiced to the gills when I first saw him but I've followed him ever since and I actually think he's natty, just has fucking absurd genetics. Russwole is another good example.
The more I've paid attention and progressed myself the higher my standards for what's naturally attainable have risen. I think that's the way, natural lifters should shoot very high and chase very huge goals.
Current Geoffrey, you're nuts, there's no way young Ronnie was natty. He still looks like a full on cartoon character.
Old Geoffrey you bought the Steve Reeves thing! Tisk!
Not only is Ronnie the goat but I don’t think we’ll ever see someone who’s peaked in every bodybuilding standard there is. It took his waistline going in the gutter for Jay to finally beat him.
NUMBER 1 : MIKE O HEARN
This is my new favourite channel by far. A long with Johnny shreve. For these videos and the in-depth training it’s amazing good job 👊👊
not-lifetime but hopefully not-too-long-time intermediate here. great video bro
He doesn't look roided just because he's big. He looks roided because his muscle are full AND shredded to the bone. There is no human on earth who can get that dry and still retain the fullness of their muscle without the help of gummy bears.
Which guy are you talking about?
@@moma8518 all of them.
@@SUPREMELEGEND except for reeves
@@AdolfHitler-lk4vo Reeves doesn't look nearly as impressive as these dudes listed. He just had a super aesthetic physique.
@@kkech1 thats why i said except for him, the other ones cannot be natural
Is he being facetious?
Nope.
most likely tryng to casue a bit of controversy to grow his channel i'd say
I definitely don't agree with some of these as someone with a ton of experience myself, but I respect you Geoffrey, saying something like this takes balls
the 90s Ronnie Coleman and Nate Williams being naturals would be the equivalent of someone who is 4 meters tall, they are too lean. genetics do vary but not that much, it's just not possible
My main inspiration for lifting is Greg Plitt and I'm one of the few who believes him to be natural. A lot of the reasons why some suspected him is most of the photos of him online are professionally touched up for magazine covers. But if you look at him in video, you can see that he is lacking the boulder delts and massive traps often seen in PED users. His most developed areas are his abs and his biceps which are some of the best show muscles that can really carry a physique. He took these muscle regions as seriously as powerlifters take their legs. Biceps he used 135lbs for strict curls, and 185lbs for his cheat curls. And for abs he had a lot of unique ways of loading lower ab exercises, and would sometimes head into the gym just to do a 30 minute weighted ab workout. Greg is also the product of a one of a kind mindset of hard work, and over 10+ years of weight training since he was a teen. His stats were 195lbs 6ft 1 so he is actually smaller than many of the guys in your video. I think Greg was the peak natural physique so maybe I have some limiting beliefs but I still find him to be a very high bar to try to reach.
Nathan PT is huge I seen him in real life, it would not surprise me at all if he isn’t natural but who cares anyway.
Ronnie was the best natty and druggeed BB of all time. Agreed he was natty.... How else would he have gained 80lbs of muscle after turning pro???
How do we know even these guys are natural or will ever really know
Very good point with the difference between ”not looking natural” (NOT natural for the vast amhority) and actually being on steroids👍🏻
Yeah i believe he is lying when ronnie says he is not natural
im seeing a common thread amongst most of these lifters.....
I Mostly Agree , but not to a 100% ! ..
So what i am thinking is : why does it have to be "Roided up to the MAX" or "100% Natural" tho ?
couldn't it be like they used to take tiny easy stuff lower dosages and then they increased the dosage and added in a lot more dangerous substances ? and that's why their progress just sky rocketed ? ..
but again this is just a thought .. that it doesn't have to be either this extreme or non at all .. maybe some of them are in the middle ! ..
however it's really funny when people say Silver Era are on PED's .. and i remember NH's saying :
Ellooo Steeevee YES i have the secret for BIG Biceps u want it ? :D :D
This is the issue. Why do you care so much? If someone is natural or not. Instead of using all this time and mental energy on researching who's natural or not or what type of drug protocol they might have used. Go and prepare some meals, go to the gym, learning something valuable toward your training
@@mattrobinsonstrengthandfit642 Trust me my Steriod knowledge is -0% .. u're talking to the wrong guy haha ! ..
and trust me i am not putting effort or any type of research on it .. and NEVER watched a Natty or not video of any type before (useless and cringe) ..
but what i do care about is (Programming and training methods) .. so if someone's claiming natural and training like an Idiot and people follow his advice .. that's when u should care and tell people NO he's on PED's his training won't work for u .. that's when it matters if someone's on PED or Natural .. and when they're trying to mislead people and take their money ..
or maybe use the (Authority argument) : "No this IFBB Pro is doing this therefore it's working" .
but as far as Drug protocol or types of PED's i am as CLUELESS as it gets ! .. cause i never cared to research it and NEVER will ..
2nd thing .. is the concept itself in the video Aka (nuances) i am just discussing a different point of view in general that it doesn't have to be either Juiced to the max or 100% Natural .. but personally idgaf cause i don't know who most of these people are to begin with ...
so don't be too quick to judge that i am that type of guy sitting all day watching Cringe Natty or nots and study drug protocols and never go to apply the training knowledge in the Gym ..u got the wrong idea !
and why would you immediatelly go to the tiny dosage increasing (which btw is a stupid idea) instead of the explanation that some people are natural? I just dont get it. Why go there?
It is either - they look so great they cannot be natural or
- they look not that great, so they must be taking smaller dosages
That is a lose-lose heuristic. How can somebody ever look like a "great natural" if theyre either on more steroids if they look too great or on less steroid if not.
@@98danielray ok so u got the wrong idea of what i am trying to say ..
i am just saying there could be nuances in this ..
cause yes they could be Natural .. idc tbh ..
but what i am saying is :
what if some of them used smaller dosages so they looked decent .. and then up the stuff they're taking or took more serious compounds so they got like this ..
i am just talking if that's a possibility that there could be a Middle ground .. cause i don't think it's either people using PED's to the Max or they don't touch it at all .. some of them just use less stuff ..
and i am not saying "Oh u can't ever look like that Naturally" .. not i am just saying some people could be on the middle ground ...
however u have amazing Naturals like GVS , Alpha destiny , NH , Basement BB , etc .. they all look great and i believe they will be even bigger and better by the years ... and their genetics is normal .. so for someone with Amazing genetics ofc they can look amazing naturally ...
but again i am just pointing out the nuances that's all ..
I’ve been lifting weights since I was 14 years old, I’m 31 now, I got on testosterone from a doctor at 29 years old, one thing that I always knew is ,
- you can look big in a xL shirt and be blocky , but look smooth without a shirt
- or you can be ripped and 6 pack abs but can’t even fill a medium shirt , and look like you don’t even lift,
I rather be blocky and be around 15-20% body fat and be able to fill a XL shirt and be close to 190-200 pounds at 5’5 then to be lean and weigh the same as a girl, how you gonna protect your self or your girlfriend/wife if you weigh the same as a middle school kid, I was a correctional officer in prison and we had a saying
“Get your weight up, or get ate up”
Being a big heavy bodybuilder is not good for fighting at all it's a terrible build for fighting and you can get fucked up by people much smaller than you, it's good for intimidation, either you can fight or you can't bodybuilding has nothing to do with it
@@brianbadonde8700 There are plenty of large bodybuilder like physiques that dominate in jujitsu, mma, and pretty much any martial art though. And if it didn't matter, why are there weight divisions then?
@@adryncharn1910 pumped up fools who bodybuild can't fight just because they have a bit of muscle, muscle needs oxygen and big muscles are not an advantage for fighting unless you're naturally that size, as for MMA and jujutsu those sports are full of juice monkeys, a bodybuilder could also happen to be a martial artist and be able to fight but just being a bodybuilder by itself is a hindrance to fighting, it hinders muscular endurance and cardio
You mean to tell me Russel Orhii squats far more than the likes of Clarence Kennedy (who's unnatural) while being 17kg lighter, and all naturally? 🤨
at his height he has as much lean muscle mass as Simeon Panda...
Clarence isn’t a power lifter though and he squats ass to grass. Orhi is a short guy with favourable leverages who dedicates his life to 3 lifts and squats just below parallel so 🤷🏻♂️
Hey Geoffry, I really like your content. I started watching the channel to improve my English and simultaneously learn more about bodybuilding. Keep up the good work, I look forward to your next videos!
Dude looks nothing like these guys. He only has big arms and quads, yet he assumes these guys are all natty lmaooo.
Go on a cut and try to get to the conditioning they are at so your followers can see what an actual natty physique in competition bodyfat looks like.
Lmaoooo
Exactly what i was thinking.. Some natties just have unrealistic expectations if you're natty that's fine but don't go around spewing misleading info about what is attainable naturally honestly.
except he has gotten down to that level of conditioning at 85kgs
@@angadgrewal9324 name the video where we can see
@@lovesgibson ruclips.net/video/o_FgDsH8CBY/видео.html
@@angadgrewal9324 nope. Still nowhere near the conditioning or look that these guys have (because they’re on gear).
All he had was pics that were heavily filtered to make him look more defined and he still wasn’t on their level
The thing about Ronnie (early) and Russ that often gets forgotten, is that 1. The camera angle almost always angles upwards, conveying the illusion of greater size along with the lighting manipulations available at the time, and 2. They’d both lose a height contest with Bilbo Baggins
Ronnie was like 5'11, so average height, idk about what height contest with Bilbo you are talking about.
You're wrong with a lot of things, but you were just right with that natty thing. Of course no one is 100% sure if those figures are/were natty or not, but experience and some logic should speak for themselves. Now we all know that you, Geoffrey, suffer from a huge overestimation of yourself, so we take your logic with a large grain of salt.