Throughout Russian Orthodox history, there was a popular folk belief that the bodies of saints would not decay and were incorruptible. When the Soviet's came to power, they initiated an anti-relic campaign which was intended to convince the public that the church had been deceiving them. While bones were found in many of the saint's tombs, some contained mummified bodies which reportedly astonished many locals. Some of the remains of the saints were taken to museums to be displayed as artifacts, but there were faithful Christians who continued to visit and pray before them. A very interesting part of Russian religious history.
So mummifying Lenin and later Stalin was a nod to the orthodox belief in the incorruptibility of the bodies of the saints. Newly-weds used to pay a ceremonial visit to Lenin: when did that start? Lenin is still there, but Khrushchev had Stalin's corpse buried by the Kremlin's wall. The other modern culture where the dead are embalmed is the USA, which goes in for open coffin funerals. Americans collect relics of the famous dead too. They venerate dead heroes at a Cenotaph, as do other Western countries. Does Elvis intercede on behalf of his followers, or Michael Jackson?
@@faithlesshound5621 I don't think there's much evidence to suggest that either of their bodies inspired popular religious worship in the same way saints did, but the emphasis on maintaining the corpses of Lenin and Stalin does appear to have been inspired by incorruptible saints. Soviet scientists worked not only to preserve the parts of Lenin's body that were visible to the public like his face and hands but also small details like the wrinkles around his pelvis. This suggests his preservation wasn't just a propaganda piece or middle finger to the church but done out of genuine respect.
@@LocatingGoku There are a few different recorded cases. For instance, the remains St. Feodosy were taken from a monastery to a museum and museum workers reported that believers were burning candles and asking to perform prayer services in the building. On the other hand, a convent at Diveevo was filled in with earth to prevent pilgrimages and over a decade later believers would continue to visit the spring water that had emerged around it. I wouldn't call the campaign a complete failure. The tomb of St. Artemy Verkolsky contained no remains at all which resulted in the local monks abandoning their monastery. It's fair to say that the Soviets had mixed results tho.
My mother used to attend outdoor masses at the beach that were held by a priest who just liked the beach. Every Sunday afternoon if the weather was nice he'd go down to the beach with everything he needed and say mass in his bathing suit for between 5 and 50 people. He would give his homily standing in the middle of circles of people just sitting in the sand. He almost always used the ocean or the beach or something related as metaphors when he did this. He often picked strange places to say mass or hear confessions. He has said mass in grocery stores, movie theaters, jail cells, a land fill and on a regularly scheduled flight from Boston to Orlando. My Mom told me that was the first time she ever heard of first class passengers slumming it in coach. Oh and yes, he has said mass in cemeteries as well.
Christians meet at this very moment in secret places in Canada due tot the coofid restrictions. Same for many Christians here in Romania, they went for nighttime Divine Liturgy an secluded monasteries because they weren't allowed to go to church by the state
Yes, a true hero for modern times. Perhaps, when he dies, we shall put his bones in a box and slater them in oil, thus making the oil holy with his divine essence? Just a thought...
Game recognize game! The True Legend Stefan Milo shouting out The God Legend Relig for Brekkies. Either that or he’s referring to Reel Fig Bish, the Reel Big Fish cover band!
A interesting occurrence is also that when a Christian church replaced or took over a pagan temple, many times there is overlap in the sphere of influence of the hero and the saint that replaced him/her. Example, as shrine with a hero that was thought to say protect babies and pregnant mothers, the saint that replaced the hero will also be someone with some connection to babies and mothers. Not always, but enough times it isn't just random either.
A while back I watched a documentary series about the Romans with Mary Beard. She showed silver votives depicting bodyparts which were offered to gods by people looking to be cured of an ailment in the corresponding bodypart. (Italian) catholics continue this practice with their saints.
@@MirekBrc You are describing universal human behavior and experience , which leads to the assumption that its roots are in the biological construction of the human being itself. As this is also true for experiences like love, affection, awe etc. would you also describe those phenomena as a "show with changing actors and costumes ". If so I go along with you but If you were using this word to indicate that religious believes are less legitimate than other universal experiences I'd like to hear how you make that distinction.
Early Christians: “hey, yeah..uh, you guys can keep believing that stuff, just call it Christianity, ok?” Appropriation is easier than flat out recruiting/converting.
My aunt (R.I.P.) was actually blessed by a saint! In the 1950s, she lived in Italy where she visited the famous stigmatic Padre Pio, who took her confession. She later went on to become a Catholic nun in the Carmelite order in the US. Padre Pio died in 1968 and was later canonized. More recently, other family members visited Saint Pio's shrine and returned with some holy oil, which was shared around for anointing, especially for those with injuries.
Confessing to a man. Implying that believers need an intercessor between them and God. Kind of goes against the whole point of Christianity, don’t you think?
Nah, because Jesus gave the apostles the ability to forgive sin according to the gospel of St. John. You could do either. I do agree the overemphasis of it in Catholicism and Orthodoxy can be harmful.
Father "Pio" is as obviously fraudulent as every other saint/miracle...................it's depressing how gullible people are and rather than educating themselves about where everything came from and easily learning about what we are where we came from , they continue to believe in 2000-10000 year old nonsense that evolved from our primitive lack of understanding how the world works and where we came from and prop up the Abrahamic religions methods of societal control by keeping the masses under their influence as ignorant as possible!
Great video as someone raised Catholic it’s fascinating to learn about different religions and practices. Even today Catholics study saints and choose a saint name. Mine was Joan of Arc when I was confirmed.
Interesting! Although one note. There are actually three classes of relics! First is the body of the saint, second is something the saint owned or used while alive and third are items that have touched first or second class relics.
So this echoes the holy relics in Buddhism where they are divided into three categories. 1. Sharirikam- Bodily remains of the Buddha. Eg. Tooth kept at the temple at Candy in Sri lanka. 2. Paribhogikam- Objects used by the Buddha. 3. Uddheshakam- Things that symbolize the Buddha. Eg. Bodhi tree. In early Buddhism, the Buddha was not physically represented. Instead the Bodhi tree ie., the tree of enlightenment with the foot prints of the Buddha beneath it symbolised the Buddha's presence.
Hi, I just wanted to say that I love this channel. Religious history is one of my favorite aspects of history, so it's sad that it's often overlooked. I blame History Channel for the common perception that history's just about warfare. Thank you and the team behind RFB for making this area of history much more accessible!
There is also the prejudice that if you don't follow a religion you shouldn't study anything about said religion since it is not "the truth" (A Jew reading the Qur'an would be probably concidered blasphemous by other Jews of their community). And the idea by atheist that religions are for "dumb people" and they deserve no study (Thats the worst kind of atheist btw, the one that I'm trying to be smart becomes willfully ignorant) It's astonishing how poorly religious literacy is portrait in our culture, but I'm glad that thanks to RUclips channels like this, that might slowly change
@@sebastiangudino9377 what a stupid "prejudice" to have, by the same logic we shouldn't learn about ancient greek myths/religious practices/etc unless we believe in greek gods
@@alanb2325 you mean against Gnosticism? Against Docetism? Against Marcionism? And against worship of Roman gods? Don't want to presume but sounds like you are twisting his epistles to form an argument against the RCC. When in fact St Polycarp of Smyrna was key to preserving the truth passed down by apostolic tradition. As he influenced St Irenaeus of Smyrna greatly. Whom places great importance to the authority of the Church in Rome over the Universal Church.
@@thehumancrayon3264 fun fact: Irinaeus and Tertullian mention the same thing regarding Polycarp (and Irinaeus actually knew Polycarp). So yeah, I think that makes is as close to true as you might get.
Will you ever do a video discovering Eastern Catholic Churches like the Maronites for example? I find them extremely underrated with a deep history worthy of discussing.
This is a pretty common human tendency. It's interesting to look into the localized roots of specific practices a little more, but generally speaking this is fairly universal (even if the details vary from religion to religion and culture to culture).
"I just love this salad dressing! What's your secret?" "Promise you won't tell anyone?... The oil was poured over the bones of Saint Olivia of Palermo!" "Oh, um.... That's nice... You know, I just realized I'm full."
Step 1. Mesolithic cult of Mother Earth (Gaia) Step 2. Neolithic cult of Mother of Gods (Rhea) Step 3. Bronze Age cult of Ishtar / Ashera / Isis (Hera) Step 4. Virgin Mary the Mother of God
As a Catholic, I have exactly the same sort of thing in the introduction. A friend gave me Oil of Saint Charbel, which is a small amount of pure olive oil mixed with a smaller fraction of oil that was in contact with the bones of the Maronite monk, Saint Charbel Makhlouf. Same principle: oil touches his relics, oil has his powers to intercede to God for miracles, power diffuses into the larger batch of olive oil for wider distribution.
Thank you for this very interesting video. I am orthodox and where I'm from pilgrimages to the remains of saints are widely practiced - even during the pandemic hundreds of people would go and kiss the box containing the remains. It always baffled me, but at the same time I figured this type of behavior won't dissappear very soon because it must be very deeply imbedded in the collective mentality and it must be rooted in a very old practice. I just didn't know what that practice was. I can't believe I didn't make the corelation with the ancient greek hero cults. Again, thank you for this!
i am so unfathomably fascinated by your videos. you do such an amazing job with the flow and lead through understanding much appreciation for you hard work!
So quick question... Did stylites just heed the calls of nature over the edge of their columns? Or did they come down? The former seems most logical, which makes the clay amulets made from the dirt around the stylites pillars a little yucky
Comparative Religion: In traditional Judaism, there are people who are believed to be a "Maaleh Yotzer", that is, Gd will listen to prayers said "in their merit". It is not that one asks them to intercede, but that their memory will intercede. While their are no relics, the gravesites are important places of prayer: The Cave of the Patriarchs in the West Bank doubles as a synagogue and mosque for that reason. Their is also Rachel's Tomb outside Bethlehem, and David's tomb just west of the Old City of Jerusalem. Often, post-biblical Maaleh Yotzers will have a day that attracts pilgrims, often their Yortzeit, or anniversary of there deaths. For example, many flock to Meron in the Galilee on Log B'omer, since Rabbi Shimon B. Yochai is buried their and Log B'omer is his yortzeit. In the Ukraine, Rosh Hashanah attracts many to the tomb of Rabbi Nachman Breslover in the town of Uman, even though it is not his yortzeit, since proceeding his death he asked that Rosh Hashanah be the pilgramage day, not his yortzeit. There is even a major shrine of Rabbi MM Scheerson in Queens, New York, outside of the cemetery he is buried in. Even outside their tombs' environs, a Maaleh Yotzer can have prayers said "in their merit". For example, their is a segulah, a kind of "charm" for finding lost objects that consists of calling upon Gd as the "Gd of Rabbi Meir Baal HaNeis.
@@tangerinetangerine4400 There's a practice among some Orthodox Jews not to write out the English word "God" out of respect for a practice in Hebrew not to spell out certain names of God
The difference between the Hellenistic hero cult and the Christian veneration of saints follows, arguably the difference between *'apotheosis'* - _man becoming an immortal demi-god, like Achilles and Alexander_ - and an *'apostolic life' or 'discipleship'* - _participating in, or accompanying the suffering of God when becoming man, like the martyrs who confessed the truth of the Christian faith against repression_ - which transforms or 'transfigures' the human body towards resurrection (as martyrdom is not a natural, but supernatural act, an act towards the 'deification of the world' or 'theosis'). There's also the aspect of 'historicity' and *'succession'* within the veneration of saints - as with the unbroken succession of priests, ordained by the apostles - which converted a Manichean like Augustine of Hippo, despite struggling to grasp a seemingly abstract Christian doctrine - and lastly: man cherrishes 'keepsakes' like the lock of hair of a loved one - not as a _symbolic representation_ - but as a form of their _actual presence_ (as the gospels not only teach that the dead are alive, but that *the living are already dead, unless they enter the **_'Kingdom of God'_* ): *"Let the dead bury their own dead* ." (Luke 9:60) "(...) *not the God of the dead but of the living* (...)" (Luke 20:37-38)
Orthodox Christian here. Just one clarification to this amazing video. For the Orthodox a saint is *anyone* who is in heaven, which is one reason why we say we don’t know all their names. Canonized saints are the ones who we feel confident are in heaven and whose lives we should imitate (and this is the reason martyrs were the first saints), but we consider anyone who enters the Kingdom to be a saint- not just the very special dead.
I think that's a common view in different branches of Christianity - and one easily misunderstood by non-Christians who only hear about the "official" saints.
I've just got home from a vacation in Boston, where I visited the graves of American historical figures, which makes me want to revisit your religion of America series.
Similar, but not quite the same, a video about the veneration of the Holy Mother would be very interesting as well. The sites where She is believed to have manifested become sites of pilgrimage with ritual practices and a perceived role as intercessor between people and God very similar to that of saints.
Such an informative video, I always wondered why Catholics held the saints in such a high regard. The holy oil thing was very interesting. I'm gonna need some of that when I go fight Dracula.
Religions are a cool way of seeing what the regional culture/s were like at that period of time. Like with Christianity being able to see how the religion changed as it met new cultures or as it changed through the centuries to meet the new cultural norms.
That part about monks living atop pillars made me think of the phrase we use about "putting someone up on a pedestal." I wonder if there's a connection?
The book referenced, The Second Church, sounds absolutely fascinating. It would make an interesting video in its own right, the difference between the elite Christians and the everyday Christians in early Christianity.
Im surprised you left out the rise/role of the maccabean martyrs both in Judaism and Christianity, especially as a patristic model that was used again and again early on in the formation and conceptualize of the cult of the saints. Josephus already discusses a 'hero cult like' memorial for Judah maccabbee and we know the antiochan jews built a shrine for him and both jews and Christians prayed there. Jewish martyrs were not seen as intercessors at that point but there deaths were both personally and communally (or globally) redemptive/atoned for sins or could bring merit. Another set of building blocks (+ the stone reliquaries would also be well known to second temple Judaism as they are nearly identical to the stone boxes used for reinterment of bones a year after burial).
Wait, but isn't the Hero cult just another version of the Ancestor cult? Relevant relative A has died, therefore they are now supernatural and can look over person B. Their grave is a somehow special place and they may not be related to a civic identity, but a family identity. It seems like another level in an "evolutionary" gradation.
Well, in the example cited, Theseus was a legendary king of Athens (Probably based on a real person), but he was not thought of as an ancestor to all the Athenian people in a genetic sense--one story had Theseus being the son of Zeus, so a demigod, though other accounts say he was merely the son of the proceeding king
@@robertallen4774 I was thinking more about the generic Ancestors cult you see in random old cultures around the globe. It seems like a logical leap going from a cult of the dead, to a cult of the famous dead, to a cult of famous religious dead.
Some scholars call hero worship "superior ancestor worship" for that very reason. They're superior ancestors in that they're not just the dead of a singular family but that of a whole community. That's exactly what Ancient Greek hero cults and the Christian saint cults were/are
@@sleeexs not really...... christians gathered themselves way before Christianity became a state religion in Rome... many christians were already used to gather themselves in synagogues and continued the practice in house churches with the addition of The Lord's supper and eating a meal together. However, as soon as it was safer for christians to be in the public, we also see that they started making specific buildings for worship only
In lecture 24 (Medicine: The Necessary Art) of The History of Ancient Egypt (from The Great Courses), Bob Brier talks about Egyptians pouring water over statues to make what he calls "holy water".
10:44 One history teacher of mine used to say that if you gathered all of the fragments of the true cross commercialized during the middle ages, you would have enough wood to build a caravel, maybe more
My great grandma’s brother was the Coptic priest in charge of Jerusalem, a subordinate of the bishop of Jerusalem who is in charge of the whole Arabian peninsula. He gave her a cross with a hole in it that had a tiny fragment of the True Cross in it. She lost it eventually, and it was the biggest regret of her life
The intercession of the saints did not click for me until I understood the eschatological dimension of the Church, in other words, "what is the Kingdom of God?". I realize you have not touched upon this "third rail" of theology, but, it might be of help to review: 1. All of the Apostolic Churches (those whose origins are pre-reformation) hold to the intercession of the saints. 2. All of the Apostolic Churches hold to Realized Millenialism in thier eschatology (called "Amillenialism" by 'low church' Protestants, who mostly hold pre-millenial views, though many 'high church' Protestants still mostly adhere to Realized Millenialism). 3. Realized Millenialism states that (1) Jesus is presently and at this very moment reigning from Heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father, (2) that before the ascension, all authority in Heaven and on Earth had already been given to Christ, and that (3) There is no 'literal, physical specific 1,000 years of rule with Christ upon his return", for "His Kingdom shall have no end", in other words, that Kingdom is now, it has been "realized". 4. Orthodoxy (and from what I understand, all the Apostolic churches) hold that the dead in Christ know what is happening on earth. In Revelation 6:9-11, they clamour impatiently for judgment to be poured out on their oppressors. 5. The concept of "soul sleep", temporary abeyance, or "limbo" for the dead in Christ is not found in Orthodox thought. 6. Christ states "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living." 7. Orthodox theology holds that the transfiguration shows that although Moses had died and Elijah had been taken up to heaven centuries before, they now live in the presence of God, and that the same return to life applies to all who face death and have faith in Christ. They were and are alive - so much so that the Apostles asked if they could build Moses and Elijah tents to stay in for the night. 8. Those in heaven are “like the angels,” Christ says. Those in heaven surround us as a “great cloud of witnesses” (Heb. 12:1). 9. In Luke 16:19-31, the rich man shows concern for his family on earth, even though he is dead. If a person such as the rich man has such concern for those still alive after being dead, those who have passed away in Christ are certainly also able to be concerned for the living. But can they do anything about their concerns? Are those that are dead in Christ denied or silent? 10. The Kingdom of God is available to us right now, right here, if we choose to access it. Those that are dead in Christ are already a part of the Kingdom of God. It is one Kingdom; we are connected to those that are dead in Christ through Christ himself. "Too often modern Christians forget that the Church is not just an institution, but the Kingdom of God that is here but is still to come. The Church is described as the Bride of Christ. We are betrothed to Christ. The second coming is the wedding day and the final consummation. Therefore, we live this present life in two dimensions: as saved and yet hoping for salvation; as betrothed to Christ and yet in anticipation and anxiety for the consummation of the marriage; as joyful and yet penitent; as having everything and yet possessing nothing; as living in this world and yet “having here no continuing city”; as in the world yet not of the world; as being members of Christ’s Church, receiving the new life of baptism and eternal life in the Eucharist; and yet as striving to be made worthy of the Kingdom to come. This double character of Christian life is absolutely essential" - Fr. Vassilios Papavassiliou
@@strangelaw6384 this is a discussion concerning Christian theology with regard to the intercession of the Saints. Christian theology was not discussed in the video much, it probably should have been touched on to a greater degree. I wrote out the theological underpinnings concerning why Christians believe in the intercession of the Saints. Do you have a question?
@@Allljay 1, 2: uniformity of ancient church belief concerning the intercession of the Saints; 3, 4: Realized Millenialism as the specific view held by the ancient churches concerning how the intercession of the Saints occurs; 5, 6, 7: Scriptural references, rejection of modern protestant evangelical theology that rejects the intercession of the Saints as a-historical; 8, 9, 10: Further scriptural references; ancient theological view that those who have died are not truly, fully "dead". Quote from Orthodox Priest: the double character of the Kingdom of God; accessibility of that Kingdom here and now to those that are alive, connecting them to those that have passed away as they are both together, through Christ, members of the same Kingdom of God, to be fully realized and recapitulated upon Christ's return.
An additional difference between Greek hero cults and saints is that the Greek heroes typically didn't do anything particularly religious to get the title. Some, like those listed in the video, were legendary great men. But most cities also had a cult to their founder - who was a common man who didn't do anything more (or less) than lead the initial settlers to the new site after being instructed to do so by the mother city. Some successful generals (such as Pausanias) also had cults; the later deification of Hellenistic kings can be seen as a continuation of this practice on steroids. In all these cases, hero cults are much of a civic institution than a spiritual one, like much of Greco-Roman religion incidentally. This is very different to saints, who all became saints because of particularly holy or divine acts.
I'm not particularly religious, but..religious history is just fascinating to me. Putting aside deriding beliefs as mere superstition, what amazes me is the sheer scope of human imagination and inventiveness in it all. We're truly remarkable when it comes down to it.
Great video! So dope. My family have their own patron saints that are revered in their small town they came from. Always wondered how that even became a thing
Oohh what culture? My Serbian family has its own specific patron Saint which every family in the orthodox Serbian church has. There’s a certain handful that most folks have like George, Michael, Nicholas (mine), and so on. On their feast day, you have a slava! Essentially a big family and friends gathering and you offer the Saint some special bread and sweet porridge
I have read that people named after saints in Europe or Catholic countries, celebrate their saint's birthday and not their own. Is that familiar to you?
@@Neenerella333 this is very common in Orthodox Christian countries, such as Greece, Ukraine and Serbia, for example. My "name day" is that of Saint George, and we are supposed to reflect on the life of that Saint, and to ask for his prayers to God on our behalf on that day. As Orthodox Christians, we believe that those that died as Saints are examples for our own lives.
Dr. Andrew, I've heard people saying that the cult of heroes as semi-divine humans in the Greek culture not only laid the groundwork for the cult of saints, but was also fundamental for the concept of Jesus as the son of God; an idea completely alien to the traditional Yahwehist culture. What are your thoughts on that?
Try reading "How Jesus Became God," by Bart D. Ehrman (professor of new testament studies at the university of North Carolina iirc). He discusses both the Greco-Roman and Jewish antecedents of belief in Jesus' divinity and how those beliefs evolved and developed in the first centuries of Christianity, in a way that is both academically rigorous, but still accessible and readable for a non-academic. I found it fascinating and one of the things he talks about in depth is the question you ask here.
it actually would be pretty cool to see some videos on the various pantheons of tamriel, since he has done videos on faiths from video games before its not outside the realm of possibility
Peter Brown - great historian! You should also note how the Donatists really amped up the celebration of the dead, and this spilled over to the regular church as well.
It doesn’t surprise me that Greek hero cults got absorbed into early Christianity. Something similar clearly happened later when Northern Europe was Christianized. Sigurd the Dragon Slayer became St. George, and the crucified Christ started to look a lot like Balder the Beautiful.
As an art historian who teaches but does not specialize in sacred art of late antiquity and the middle ages, I am going to freely admit that the seemingly endless list of saints is something i have found, at times, quite frustrating. As if the iconography if Christianity were not complicated enough!
Martyr means a person who was endured for his faith or beliefs.the greek word μάρτυς(witness) was originated from verb μαρτυρω,(marturõ) which means 1) testify as a witness in a court of law 2) i betray someone's trust
The curch services in catacombs reminds me of some old dutch churches, rich people could buy a grave inside the church, in some churches there are still gravestone like tiles in the floor with names and dates on them, the practice was outlawed by royal decree in the 19th century but was pretty common before then
10:40 I went there. Apparently he did not only pray, he also sweated blood there. To be honest, I always found it a bit annoying during my holiday in Israel that every holy site has a church/shrine built around it. It makes it a lot harder to connect with the past and the events that transpired there. For example, the olive garden where Judas betrayed Jesus is a lot more managed than another olive garden nearby, which feels a lot more natural and gives you a feeling of what the place could've looked like at that time.
@@nunyabiznes33 Yeah, it would be weird if, I don't know, the right foot of the Saint Peter statue in the Vatican would have been kissed so many times it's barely there anymore...
I've always thought that the statues of saints that Italians carry through the streets on their feast days are actually just renamed heros and deities. They've been carrying those statues up the side of the mountain for 4,000 tears, only changing the name they use for it and adding details to the stories and rituals.
This makes very much sense when you consider that pagan or pre-Christian statues in general when found by more "rural people" where often thought to be old saints. the best example would be the bronzes of Riace, two giant bronze statues of greek origin dating to 460 BC. when found in 1972 in Riace (Calabria) the local population immediatly "recognized" them as the patron saints of their town, Saint Cosma and Saint Damiano.
I don't think you can assist to a Saint festival (especially in southern italy) and see anything other than pagan rituals. I'm from there and I've seen plenty, that was always my impression.
Thanks for this channel. I love the forthright way you portray events. I love studying religions and glad to have such an objective reference. This second part has nothing to do with religion but I have to say it. I love your beard! It is neat and tight not wild. Trying to get mine like yours. OK back to the topic. Thanks much for your dynamic presentations and keep up the great work
When trying to ascertain the origins of early Christian ideas and practices, I’d highly recommend primarily dealing with biblical or Second Temple sources and then only secondarily looking for influences in things like paganism/Zoroastrianism/etc. There are examples of primary (Elisha’s bones) and secondary (Paul’s cloths) relics in the Bible itself. The Apocrypha describes the deceased prophet Jeremiah interceding in prayer for those living (2 Maccabees 15:14). Sirach 44 and Hebrews 11 glorify the holy people from the past. The main tenets of relics and Saint veneration are present without having to look to outside of the Judeo-Christian writings. That’s not to say that the expression didn’t take on more pagan flavors as Christianity spread outside the Jewish world to the Greco-Roman world, as Saints began to replace the pagan deities of the pantheon, so that people would pray to the saints instead of the gods. But this ties into ideas spread throughout the Old and New Testaments of the fallen gods/angels being judged and replaced by holy humans. Paganism obviously influenced the development of Christianity, but as I said those influences are not even remotely as prevalent as the influences of the biblical and Second Temple writings and ideas.
In ecclesial Latin Sanctus means Holy, sometimes it refers to Saint, but only in specific cases like the Sanctorale which is part of the Breviary with the offices of the feast of the saints. The root, Sanct, always refers to something Holy or Blessed, in this example Sanctus Spiritus is directly translated to Holy Spirit, in the Ave Maria Sancte Maria is Holy Mary. Charming video.
It's really interesting to think how the cult of saints intertwined with the local traditions of mesoamerican people, and how they still continue to this day
The word μάρτυρας=martyr doesn't mean witness in all counts, also means someone that had a tortured death μαρτυρικός θάνατος, μαρτύριο=martyrdom.The word has many meanings in Greek literature and poetry.
But the second meaning was almost certainly developed in response to already calling the martyrs - the people who were tortured to death - by this word as "witnesses." If you're a linguist you can confirm this by dating the meanings in Greek texts.
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Are you a Christian sir .
Were you there?
Idk you have this look on your face as you describe. How do you view yourself? Think you're better then others?
Let's focus on the past as we ignore our future.
@@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69 what?
Throughout Russian Orthodox history, there was a popular folk belief that the bodies of saints would not decay and were incorruptible. When the Soviet's came to power, they initiated an anti-relic campaign which was intended to convince the public that the church had been deceiving them. While bones were found in many of the saint's tombs, some contained mummified bodies which reportedly astonished many locals. Some of the remains of the saints were taken to museums to be displayed as artifacts, but there were faithful Christians who continued to visit and pray before them. A very interesting part of Russian religious history.
Interestingly there are some saints who bodies won't decay
So mummifying Lenin and later Stalin was a nod to the orthodox belief in the incorruptibility of the bodies of the saints. Newly-weds used to pay a ceremonial visit to Lenin: when did that start? Lenin is still there, but Khrushchev had Stalin's corpse buried by the Kremlin's wall.
The other modern culture where the dead are embalmed is the USA, which goes in for open coffin funerals. Americans collect relics of the famous dead too. They venerate dead heroes at a Cenotaph, as do other Western countries. Does Elvis intercede on behalf of his followers, or Michael Jackson?
Did they visit the original sites or the museums?
@@faithlesshound5621 I don't think there's much evidence to suggest that either of their bodies inspired popular religious worship in the same way saints did, but the emphasis on maintaining the corpses of Lenin and Stalin does appear to have been inspired by incorruptible saints. Soviet scientists worked not only to preserve the parts of Lenin's body that were visible to the public like his face and hands but also small details like the wrinkles around his pelvis. This suggests his preservation wasn't just a propaganda piece or middle finger to the church but done out of genuine respect.
@@LocatingGoku There are a few different recorded cases. For instance, the remains St. Feodosy were taken from a monastery to a museum and museum workers reported that believers were burning candles and asking to perform prayer services in the building. On the other hand, a convent at Diveevo was filled in with earth to prevent pilgrimages and over a decade later believers would continue to visit the spring water that had emerged around it.
I wouldn't call the campaign a complete failure. The tomb of St. Artemy Verkolsky contained no remains at all which resulted in the local monks abandoning their monastery. It's fair to say that the Soviets had mixed results tho.
Wow, I am so early that Paul is still attacking the early apostles...
Wow, it sounds like he was pretty Saul-ty
@@fghgl nice looool
@@fghgl hear hear
@@fghgl A punchline 1,900 years in the making.
@@fghgl 👍🌹❤️🎉😂🤣😂🤣😅
I imagine church services in literal underground catacombs to be the most surreal experience lol
Literal?
They're that stupid.
@@juniorpatriciocruz53 I wouldn’t say stupid, that’s extreme devotion I can respect that.
My mother used to attend outdoor masses at the beach that were held by a priest who just liked the beach. Every Sunday afternoon if the weather was nice he'd go down to the beach with everything he needed and say mass in his bathing suit for between 5 and 50 people. He would give his homily standing in the middle of circles of people just sitting in the sand. He almost always used the ocean or the beach or something related as metaphors when he did this. He often picked strange places to say mass or hear confessions. He has said mass in grocery stores, movie theaters, jail cells, a land fill and on a regularly scheduled flight from Boston to Orlando. My Mom told me that was the first time she ever heard of first class passengers slumming it in coach. Oh and yes, he has said mass in cemeteries as well.
Christians meet at this very moment in secret places in Canada due tot the coofid restrictions. Same for many Christians here in Romania, they went for nighttime Divine Liturgy an secluded monasteries because they weren't allowed to go to church by the state
You're a legend RFB!
You too!
Yes, a true hero for modern times. Perhaps, when he dies, we shall put his bones in a box and slater them in oil, thus making the oil holy with his divine essence? Just a thought...
And you are a G Stefan, love to see you posting here!
No. Your Spoon is a legend
Game recognize game! The True Legend Stefan Milo shouting out The God Legend Relig for Brekkies.
Either that or he’s referring to Reel Fig Bish, the Reel Big Fish cover band!
A interesting occurrence is also that when a Christian church replaced or took over a pagan temple, many times there is overlap in the sphere of influence of the hero and the saint that replaced him/her. Example, as shrine with a hero that was thought to say protect babies and pregnant mothers, the saint that replaced the hero will also be someone with some connection to babies and mothers. Not always, but enough times it isn't just random either.
A while back I watched a documentary series about the Romans with Mary Beard. She showed silver votives depicting bodyparts which were offered to gods by people looking to be cured of an ailment in the corresponding bodypart. (Italian) catholics continue this practice with their saints.
@@kellydalstok8900 Religions are still the same show. Only the decorations and costumes of actors change.
@@MirekBrc You are describing universal human behavior and experience , which leads to the assumption that its roots are in the biological construction of the human being itself.
As this is also true for experiences like love, affection, awe etc. would you also describe those phenomena as a "show with changing actors and costumes ".
If so I go along with you but If you were using this word to indicate that religious believes are less legitimate than other universal experiences I'd like to hear how you make that distinction.
Early Christians: “hey, yeah..uh, you guys can keep believing that stuff, just call it Christianity, ok?”
Appropriation is easier than flat out recruiting/converting.
@@kellydalstok8900 It happens all over southern Europe.
You’re a fantastic creator. Learned so much! Thanks for these!!!!
What are YOU doing here
@@bhargavnelapolu8193 What are YOU doing here?
@@DONIMATOR-pn5rp what are YOU doing here
@@bhargavnelapolu8193 What am I doing here?
I hope you're doing good, man.
My aunt (R.I.P.) was actually blessed by a saint! In the 1950s, she lived in Italy where she visited the famous stigmatic Padre Pio, who took her confession. She later went on to become a Catholic nun in the Carmelite order in the US. Padre Pio died in 1968 and was later canonized. More recently, other family members visited Saint Pio's shrine and returned with some holy oil, which was shared around for anointing, especially for those with injuries.
that's cool tho
Confessing to a man. Implying that believers need an intercessor between them and God. Kind of goes against the whole point of Christianity, don’t you think?
Nah, because Jesus gave the apostles the ability to forgive sin according to the gospel of St. John. You could do either. I do agree the overemphasis of it in Catholicism and Orthodoxy can be harmful.
Father "Pio" is as obviously fraudulent as every other saint/miracle...................it's depressing how gullible people are and rather than educating themselves about where everything came from and easily learning about what we are where we came from , they continue to believe in 2000-10000 year old nonsense that evolved from our primitive lack of understanding how the world works and where we came from and prop up the Abrahamic religions methods of societal control by keeping the masses under their influence as ignorant as possible!
I remember Padré Pio from unsolved mystories
Great video as someone raised Catholic it’s fascinating to learn about different religions and practices. Even today Catholics study saints and choose a saint name. Mine was Joan of Arc when I was confirmed.
Interesting! Although one note. There are actually three classes of relics! First is the body of the saint, second is something the saint owned or used while alive and third are items that have touched first or second class relics.
So this echoes the holy relics in Buddhism where they are divided into three categories. 1. Sharirikam- Bodily remains of the Buddha. Eg. Tooth kept at the temple at Candy in Sri lanka. 2. Paribhogikam- Objects used by the Buddha. 3. Uddheshakam- Things that symbolize the Buddha. Eg. Bodhi tree. In early Buddhism, the Buddha was not physically represented. Instead the Bodhi tree ie., the tree of enlightenment with the foot prints of the Buddha beneath it symbolised the Buddha's presence.
@@minithankappan1226 oh wow. I wasn’t familiar with that. That’s really interesting!
You mean there are also three classes of sport memorabilia
Hi, I just wanted to say that I love this channel. Religious history is one of my favorite aspects of history, so it's sad that it's often overlooked. I blame History Channel for the common perception that history's just about warfare. Thank you and the team behind RFB for making this area of history much more accessible!
There is also the prejudice that if you don't follow a religion you shouldn't study anything about said religion since it is not "the truth" (A Jew reading the Qur'an would be probably concidered blasphemous by other Jews of their community). And the idea by atheist that religions are for "dumb people" and they deserve no study (Thats the worst kind of atheist btw, the one that I'm trying to be smart becomes willfully ignorant)
It's astonishing how poorly religious literacy is portrait in our culture, but I'm glad that thanks to RUclips channels like this, that might slowly change
I’ll take warfare over hillbilly bargaining and glorified dumpster divers.
@@sebastiangudino9377 what a stupid "prejudice" to have, by the same logic we shouldn't learn about ancient greek myths/religious practices/etc unless we believe in greek gods
Clearly, History is about ancient aliens, digging a hole in the ground for a decade, and shopping for antiques
The "History" Channel is anyways nowhere close to history ...
Fun fact, Polycarp was a student of John the Apostle
@@alanb2325 you mean against Gnosticism? Against Docetism? Against Marcionism? And against worship of Roman gods?
Don't want to presume but sounds like you are twisting his epistles to form an argument against the RCC.
When in fact St Polycarp of Smyrna was key to preserving the truth passed down by apostolic tradition. As he influenced St Irenaeus of Smyrna greatly. Whom places great importance to the authority of the Church in Rome over the Universal Church.
@@brycebensing Irenaeus of Lyon*
@@stefanpopescu4914 thanks! Haha yeah my bad
* Fun fact, *Jerome wrote* that Polycarp was a disciple of John the Apostle.
That's not the same as it being true.
@@thehumancrayon3264 fun fact: Irinaeus and Tertullian mention the same thing regarding Polycarp (and Irinaeus actually knew Polycarp). So yeah, I think that makes is as close to true as you might get.
Will you ever do a video discovering Eastern Catholic Churches like the Maronites for example? I find them extremely underrated with a deep history worthy of discussing.
I am a Maronite and I agree!!
That would be amazing
This is a pretty common human tendency. It's interesting to look into the localized roots of specific practices a little more, but generally speaking this is fairly universal (even if the details vary from religion to religion and culture to culture).
Agree 100 percent. This custom is found all over the world.
not just in humans either! I mean Elephants are very interested in the bones of their dead
Sports memorabilia were part of the cult.
"I just love this salad dressing! What's your secret?"
"Promise you won't tell anyone?... The oil was poured over the bones of Saint Olivia of Palermo!"
"Oh, um.... That's nice... You know, I just realized I'm full."
HAHAHA!
Olivia oil & vinegar
A miracle!
An interesting continuation for this video would be analyzing the cult of the Virgin Mary.
I'd love that!
Oh yes, that would be wonderful, as these two Catholic ideas are some of the most misunderstood between Catholics and Protestants.
Step 1. Mesolithic cult of Mother Earth (Gaia)
Step 2. Neolithic cult of Mother of Gods (Rhea)
Step 3. Bronze Age cult of Ishtar / Ashera / Isis (Hera)
Step 4. Virgin Mary the Mother of God
@@krakendragonslayer1909 This would be amazing
comes from Semiramis, the first (at least known) virgin pregant by an imaginary god , then she gave birth a son of god
This is fascinating. Thanks, once again. At this point probably my favorite YT channel.
Why is this channel not at 1M subscribers yet with this quality of video and information? I don't understand.
As a Catholic, I have exactly the same sort of thing in the introduction. A friend gave me Oil of Saint Charbel, which is a small amount of pure olive oil mixed with a smaller fraction of oil that was in contact with the bones of the Maronite monk, Saint Charbel Makhlouf.
Same principle: oil touches his relics, oil has his powers to intercede to God for miracles, power diffuses into the larger batch of olive oil for wider distribution.
What did it taste like?🤓
@@TransKidRevolution I don't know. External use only, I guess?
Saint Charbel is revered by Catholic and Orthodox Christians and some local Muslim groups in Lebanon
Watches Religion for Breakfast at dinner time, like a boss 😎
Are you at least eating pancakes?
I'm a rebel and watch between meals. 😉
It’s breakfast time here, but since I work night I’m actually going to bed not getting breakfast lol
Thank you for this very interesting video. I am orthodox and where I'm from pilgrimages to the remains of saints are widely practiced - even during the pandemic hundreds of people would go and kiss the box containing the remains. It always baffled me, but at the same time I figured this type of behavior won't dissappear very soon because it must be very deeply imbedded in the collective mentality and it must be rooted in a very old practice. I just didn't know what that practice was. I can't believe I didn't make the corelation with the ancient greek hero cults. Again, thank you for this!
i am so unfathomably fascinated by your videos. you do such an amazing job with the flow and lead through understanding much appreciation for you hard work!
That was great! Would love to see more videos about saints, I find them fascinating!
saints are great and all, but I want more on hero cults, and apotheosis.
So quick question... Did stylites just heed the calls of nature over the edge of their columns? Or did they come down? The former seems most logical, which makes the clay amulets made from the dirt around the stylites pillars a little yucky
Back in your day good Whakespeare, you did your business in a chamber pot and then just tossed it out the window onto the street below.
“This dirt was made from the fertilizer that came straight from the saint’s body! It will surely bring you a bountiful harvest!”
@@oscargordon I see what you mean. The poop around the column would've just blended in with the poop that was around just generally
Great video as always! I’d love to hear your analysis of forms of American Christianity (SDA, LDS, JW, etc.)
Comparative Religion: In traditional Judaism, there are people who are believed to be a "Maaleh Yotzer", that is, Gd will listen to prayers said "in their merit". It is not that one asks them to intercede, but that their memory will intercede. While their are no relics, the gravesites are important places of prayer: The Cave of the Patriarchs in the West Bank doubles as a synagogue and mosque for that reason. Their is also Rachel's Tomb outside Bethlehem, and David's tomb just west of the Old City of Jerusalem. Often, post-biblical Maaleh Yotzers will have a day that attracts pilgrims, often their Yortzeit, or anniversary of there deaths. For example, many flock to Meron in the Galilee on Log B'omer, since Rabbi Shimon B. Yochai is buried their and Log B'omer is his yortzeit. In the Ukraine, Rosh Hashanah attracts many to the tomb of Rabbi Nachman Breslover in the town of Uman, even though it is not his yortzeit, since proceeding his death he asked that Rosh Hashanah be the pilgramage day, not his yortzeit. There is even a major shrine of Rabbi MM Scheerson in Queens, New York, outside of the cemetery he is buried in.
Even outside their tombs' environs, a Maaleh Yotzer can have prayers said "in their merit". For example, their is a segulah, a kind of "charm" for finding lost objects that consists of calling upon Gd as the "Gd of Rabbi Meir Baal HaNeis.
The Clan of the Cave Bear worship their god Yogi, who grants them pickanic baskets during times of famine. 🐻
@@ANDROLOMA Relevance, please?
@@LangThoughts The Yiddish are coming! The Yiddish are coming!
It's spelled god.
@@tangerinetangerine4400 There's a practice among some Orthodox Jews not to write out the English word "God" out of respect for a practice in Hebrew not to spell out certain names of God
Interesting. I’d love to see your take on Santa Muerte.
Definitely!
Santissima Muerte, cavron!
Ten cuidado, o ella...
Nevermind.
I don't want that bch at my back...
IJS
Dead Santa? Sounds pretty metal.
@@devcrom3 Wtf, no, Holy Death, or La Virgen de Santisisma Muerte
@@devcrom3 That is effing hilarious. I just forced coffee up my sinuses reading that.
The difference between the Hellenistic hero cult and the Christian veneration of saints follows, arguably the difference between *'apotheosis'* - _man becoming an immortal demi-god, like Achilles and Alexander_ - and an *'apostolic life' or 'discipleship'* - _participating in, or accompanying the suffering of God when becoming man, like the martyrs who confessed the truth of the Christian faith against repression_ - which transforms or 'transfigures' the human body towards resurrection (as martyrdom is not a natural, but supernatural act, an act towards the 'deification of the world' or 'theosis').
There's also the aspect of 'historicity' and *'succession'* within the veneration of saints - as with the unbroken succession of priests, ordained by the apostles - which converted a Manichean like Augustine of Hippo, despite struggling to grasp a seemingly abstract Christian doctrine - and lastly: man cherrishes 'keepsakes' like the lock of hair of a loved one - not as a _symbolic representation_ - but as a form of their _actual presence_ (as the gospels not only teach that the dead are alive, but that *the living are already dead, unless they enter the **_'Kingdom of God'_* ):
*"Let the dead bury their own dead* ." (Luke 9:60)
"(...) *not the God of the dead but of the living* (...)" (Luke 20:37-38)
A fascinating topic elegantly presented. Thank you again, Dr Andrew! ☺
You never disappoint! Thank you for your consistency and hard work 💖
Awesome topic! I read Peter Brown’s The Cult of the Saints, at university and have been fave been fascinated ever since. Keep up the outstanding work.
Orthodox Christian here. Just one clarification to this amazing video. For the Orthodox a saint is *anyone* who is in heaven, which is one reason why we say we don’t know all their names. Canonized saints are the ones who we feel confident are in heaven and whose lives we should imitate (and this is the reason martyrs were the first saints), but we consider anyone who enters the Kingdom to be a saint- not just the very special dead.
Same for us Roman Catholics, we got a list, but it is in no way exhaustive
I think that's a common view in different branches of Christianity - and one easily misunderstood by non-Christians who only hear about the "official" saints.
In Greece every city has its poliouchos saint poliouchos meaning city protector
@The Matrix Redemption it depends on who you ask 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@The Matrix Redemption Ok so what's your point?
@The Matrix Redemption I never said i believed in them i just shared a fact. But know i am curious what languages do they understand?
@@leontarkostas5768 it comes from polis + echon. The one who owns (has) the city
@@lgiorgos1 You are right but in modern Greek it means protector
I was looking forward to this one!
Great video! A related topic that could be addressed in a future video is the medieval cult of relics as descibed by John Calvin.
I've just got home from a vacation in Boston, where I visited the graves of American historical figures, which makes me want to revisit your religion of America series.
Similar, but not quite the same, a video about the veneration of the Holy Mother would be very interesting as well. The sites where She is believed to have manifested become sites of pilgrimage with ritual practices and a perceived role as intercessor between people and God very similar to that of saints.
You break it down so well, thank you! I always learn so much from your videos.
I always enjoy your content and find it fascinating and well delivered.
Such an informative video, I always wondered why Catholics held the saints in such a high regard. The holy oil thing was very interesting. I'm gonna need some of that when I go fight Dracula.
Religions are a cool way of seeing what the regional culture/s were like at that period of time. Like with Christianity being able to see how the religion changed as it met new cultures or as it changed through the centuries to meet the new cultural norms.
That part about monks living atop pillars made me think of the phrase we use about "putting someone up on a pedestal." I wonder if there's a connection?
The book referenced, The Second Church, sounds absolutely fascinating. It would make an interesting video in its own right, the difference between the elite Christians and the everyday Christians in early Christianity.
Im surprised you left out the rise/role of the maccabean martyrs both in Judaism and Christianity, especially as a patristic model that was used again and again early on in the formation and conceptualize of the cult of the saints. Josephus already discusses a 'hero cult like' memorial for Judah maccabbee and we know the antiochan jews built a shrine for him and both jews and Christians prayed there. Jewish martyrs were not seen as intercessors at that point but there deaths were both personally and communally (or globally) redemptive/atoned for sins or could bring merit. Another set of building blocks
(+ the stone reliquaries would also be well known to second temple Judaism as they are nearly identical to the stone boxes used for reinterment of bones a year after burial).
Sounds like it could be an episode all its own!
Could you do an episode on demi-gods, please?
What a fantastic video!!! Would you consider doing a similar video focusing on saints and relics in Shia Islam?
I just noticed how similar Salafi ideologies are to Soviet ideas too
Islam doesn't have saints.
@@StallionFernando Yes it does.
Wait, but isn't the Hero cult just another version of the Ancestor cult? Relevant relative A has died, therefore they are now supernatural and can look over person B. Their grave is a somehow special place and they may not be related to a civic identity, but a family identity. It seems like another level in an "evolutionary" gradation.
In the same vein, saints can be considered "fathers of the faith," spiritual ancestors of the broader Christian family
Well, in the example cited, Theseus was a legendary king of Athens (Probably based on a real person), but he was not thought of as an ancestor to all the Athenian people in a genetic sense--one story had Theseus being the son of Zeus, so a demigod, though other accounts say he was merely the son of the proceeding king
@@robertallen4774 I was thinking more about the generic Ancestors cult you see in random old cultures around the globe. It seems like a logical leap going from a cult of the dead, to a cult of the famous dead, to a cult of famous religious dead.
Some scholars call hero worship "superior ancestor worship" for that very reason. They're superior ancestors in that they're not just the dead of a singular family but that of a whole community. That's exactly what Ancient Greek hero cults and the Christian saint cults were/are
@@WildMen4444 interesting
When did "going to church" become a thing?
after the romans invented it
@@sleeexs not really...... christians gathered themselves way before Christianity became a state religion in Rome... many christians were already used to gather themselves in synagogues and continued the practice in house churches with the addition of The Lord's supper and eating a meal together. However, as soon as it was safer for christians to be in the public, we also see that they started making specific buildings for worship only
@@dane_with_swag Besides, other religions already had this practice before.
@@dane_with_swag sure buddy
@@kellydalstok8900 absolutely 👍
Thank you so much for doing these videos. I have learned so much and always look forward to new videos.
They say that a Saint's corpse could bring fortune to a country, or even grant supernatural abilities to people.
they are wrong
@@ziadhamoud145 What do you mean? The president of the United States told me that.
Oh a jojo reference
Acts of Grace in reality are not supernatural.
I like your "building blocks" analogy - that works for holidays too
The word in Italian for Worship service is "culto"
Same in spanish too
Plus I had a dream that a hedgehog was chasing me in an ambulance!😐🤷
omg i've been trying to understand the use of "cult" for the past few days! thanks for the explanation. love your channel
Can't blame people for keeping Saint Corpses. I heard they give you something called a "Stand".
Is that.......a JoJo's reference?!?
GUGUGUGUGUGUGUGUGU
The further this cult practice goes, others began to call it pagan
Maybe this is what inspired Araki for those "Saint Corpse Parts"
Such good information for my post reform. Mind and explanation for all i saw in Greece.
In lecture 24 (Medicine: The Necessary Art) of The History of Ancient Egypt (from The Great Courses), Bob Brier talks about Egyptians pouring water over statues to make what he calls "holy water".
You don't have to go that back. We Hindus already do that.
Fascinating glimpse at the early church
10:44 One history teacher of mine used to say that if you gathered all of the fragments of the true cross commercialized during the middle ages, you would have enough wood to build a caravel, maybe more
Build an ark, and you can double-up the tourist site.
And enough nails were found,that you could build a tank
@@KingfisherTalkingPictures Oh yes, an ark would be even better thematically
I don't remember who exactly came up with this, but this observation about the fragments of the True Cross is at least several centuries old.
My great grandma’s brother was the Coptic priest in charge of Jerusalem, a subordinate of the bishop of Jerusalem who is in charge of the whole Arabian peninsula. He gave her a cross with a hole in it that had a tiny fragment of the True Cross in it. She lost it eventually, and it was the biggest regret of her life
Could you make a video about the history of Limbo?
The intercession of the saints did not click for me until I understood the eschatological dimension of the Church, in other words, "what is the Kingdom of God?". I realize you have not touched upon this "third rail" of theology, but, it might be of help to review:
1. All of the Apostolic Churches (those whose origins are pre-reformation) hold to the intercession of the saints.
2. All of the Apostolic Churches hold to Realized Millenialism in thier eschatology (called "Amillenialism" by 'low church' Protestants, who mostly hold pre-millenial views, though many 'high church' Protestants still mostly adhere to Realized Millenialism).
3. Realized Millenialism states that (1) Jesus is presently and at this very moment reigning from Heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father, (2) that before the ascension, all authority in Heaven and on Earth had already been given to Christ, and that (3) There is no 'literal, physical specific 1,000 years of rule with Christ upon his return", for "His Kingdom shall have no end", in other words, that Kingdom is now, it has been "realized".
4. Orthodoxy (and from what I understand, all the Apostolic churches) hold that the dead in Christ know what is happening on earth. In Revelation 6:9-11, they clamour impatiently for judgment to be poured out on their oppressors.
5. The concept of "soul sleep", temporary abeyance, or "limbo" for the dead in Christ is not found in Orthodox thought.
6. Christ states "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living."
7. Orthodox theology holds that the transfiguration shows that although Moses had died and Elijah had been taken up to heaven centuries before, they now live in the presence of God, and that the same return to life applies to all who face death and have faith in Christ. They were and are alive - so much so that the Apostles asked if they could build Moses and Elijah tents to stay in for the night.
8. Those in heaven are “like the angels,” Christ says. Those in heaven surround us as a “great cloud of witnesses” (Heb. 12:1).
9. In Luke 16:19-31, the rich man shows concern for his family on earth, even though he is dead. If a person such as the rich man has such concern for those still alive after being dead, those who have passed away in Christ are certainly also able to be concerned for the living. But can they do anything about their concerns? Are those that are dead in Christ denied or silent?
10. The Kingdom of God is available to us right now, right here, if we choose to access it. Those that are dead in Christ are already a part of the Kingdom of God. It is one Kingdom; we are connected to those that are dead in Christ through Christ himself.
"Too often modern Christians forget that the Church is not just an institution, but the Kingdom of God that is here but is still to come. The Church is described as the Bride of Christ. We are betrothed to Christ. The second coming is the wedding day and the final consummation. Therefore, we live this present life in two dimensions: as saved and yet hoping for salvation; as betrothed to Christ and yet in anticipation and anxiety for the consummation of the marriage; as joyful and yet penitent; as having everything and yet possessing nothing; as living in this world and yet “having here no continuing city”; as in the world yet not of the world; as being members of Christ’s Church, receiving the new life of baptism and eternal life in the Eucharist; and yet as striving to be made worthy of the Kingdom to come. This double character of Christian life is absolutely essential"
- Fr. Vassilios Papavassiliou
what
@@strangelaw6384 this is a discussion concerning Christian theology with regard to the intercession of the Saints.
Christian theology was not discussed in the video much, it probably should have been touched on to a greater degree. I wrote out the theological underpinnings concerning why Christians believe in the intercession of the Saints.
Do you have a question?
11. I think the only thing connecting these bullet points is that that they increase by one each time
@@Allljay 1, 2: uniformity of ancient church belief concerning the intercession of the Saints;
3, 4: Realized Millenialism as the specific view held by the ancient churches concerning how the intercession of the Saints occurs;
5, 6, 7: Scriptural references, rejection of modern protestant evangelical theology that rejects the intercession of the Saints as a-historical;
8, 9, 10: Further scriptural references; ancient theological view that those who have died are not truly, fully "dead".
Quote from Orthodox Priest: the double character of the Kingdom of God; accessibility of that Kingdom here and now to those that are alive, connecting them to those that have passed away as they are both together, through Christ, members of the same Kingdom of God, to be fully realized and recapitulated upon Christ's return.
An additional difference between Greek hero cults and saints is that the Greek heroes typically didn't do anything particularly religious to get the title. Some, like those listed in the video, were legendary great men. But most cities also had a cult to their founder - who was a common man who didn't do anything more (or less) than lead the initial settlers to the new site after being instructed to do so by the mother city. Some successful generals (such as Pausanias) also had cults; the later deification of Hellenistic kings can be seen as a continuation of this practice on steroids. In all these cases, hero cults are much of a civic institution than a spiritual one, like much of Greco-Roman religion incidentally. This is very different to saints, who all became saints because of particularly holy or divine acts.
Sure hope he does a video on the Cult of the Blue Oyster.
I hear that they don't fear the reaper unlike other cults.
They accept veterans. Veterans of the Psychic Wars
They venerate the Transmaniacon, to my understanding
The "blue oyster cult" is a race of aliens that controls human history that the world's leaders are answerable to.
@@chetthebee1322 That would make sense of their holy doctrine of Dominance and Submission. Perhaps more could be divined through Astronomy.
3:24 I kept hearing that Polycarp was executed after for refusing to read Kant, and it was so confusing but also funny
I'm not particularly religious, but..religious history is just fascinating to me. Putting aside deriding beliefs as mere superstition, what amazes me is the sheer scope of human imagination and inventiveness in it all. We're truly remarkable when it comes down to it.
Great video! So dope. My family have their own patron saints that are revered in their small town they came from. Always wondered how that even became a thing
Oohh what culture? My Serbian family has its own specific patron Saint which every family in the orthodox Serbian church has. There’s a certain handful that most folks have like George, Michael, Nicholas (mine), and so on. On their feast day, you have a slava! Essentially a big family and friends gathering and you offer the Saint some special bread and sweet porridge
@@Lucas-iy1ve my family are from Alberobello which is in Puglia Italy. The patron saints of our town are Cosma e Damiano (cosmas & damian)
@@Lucas-iy1veU hrvatskoj imamo imendan, ali u zadnje vrijeme se baš ne slavi. Svi se prave i kažu da su katolici, ali u stvari nisu.
this is a very well done video.
When I saw the Gethsemane Rock, we weren’t invited to touch it.
What about the holy stone of Clonrichert?
2:02 A tautology if ever I've heard one... as opposed to all the religions that don't bother to tell you what to do or how to behave.
What about the confucianism videos? It was really interesting.
Episode 2 will arrive in August
@@ReligionForBreakfast Nice 👍👍 Best educational chanel on RUclips btw.
Thanks so much!
As a kid my family participated on Saints veneration, pretty interesting on how old this practice was.
I have read that people named after saints in Europe or Catholic countries, celebrate their saint's birthday and not their own. Is that familiar to you?
@@Neenerella333 this is very common in Orthodox Christian countries, such as Greece, Ukraine and Serbia, for example. My "name day" is that of Saint George, and we are supposed to reflect on the life of that Saint, and to ask for his prayers to God on our behalf on that day. As Orthodox Christians, we believe that those that died as Saints are examples for our own lives.
Dr. Andrew, I've heard people saying that the cult of heroes as semi-divine humans in the Greek culture not only laid the groundwork for the cult of saints, but was also fundamental for the concept of Jesus as the son of God; an idea completely alien to the traditional Yahwehist culture. What are your thoughts on that?
Try reading "How Jesus Became God," by Bart D. Ehrman (professor of new testament studies at the university of North Carolina iirc). He discusses both the Greco-Roman and Jewish antecedents of belief in Jesus' divinity and how those beliefs evolved and developed in the first centuries of Christianity, in a way that is both academically rigorous, but still accessible and readable for a non-academic. I found it fascinating and one of the things he talks about in depth is the question you ask here.
@@PonderingStudent thank you very much
Like so many of these examples, its more a case of parallel evolution rather than direct copying.
lets not forgot the Tribunal cult in Morrowind
Three Gods. One True Faith,0
it actually would be pretty cool to see some videos on the various pantheons of tamriel, since he has done videos on faiths from video games before its not outside the realm of possibility
are you still selling skooma ?
@@Quetsalcoatvl I need to look these videos of his up…
This is so interesting, Andrew. Your channel is awesome!
I would LOVE a video about stylites. How did they live on those pillars? How did it start?
Most of my favorite channels are science and engineering related. This is one of my favorite channels.
M a g i c b o n e o i l
Peter Brown - great historian! You should also note how the Donatists really amped up the celebration of the dead, and this spilled over to the regular church as well.
It doesn’t surprise me that Greek hero cults got absorbed into early Christianity. Something similar clearly happened later when Northern Europe was Christianized. Sigurd the Dragon Slayer became St. George, and the crucified Christ started to look a lot like Balder the Beautiful.
As an art historian who teaches but does not specialize in sacred art of late antiquity and the middle ages, I am going to freely admit that the seemingly endless list of saints is something i have found, at times, quite frustrating. As if the iconography if Christianity were not complicated enough!
Martyr means a person who was endured for his faith or beliefs.the greek word μάρτυς(witness) was originated from verb μαρτυρω,(marturõ) which means 1) testify as a witness in a court of law 2) i betray someone's trust
The curch services in catacombs reminds me of some old dutch churches, rich people could buy a grave inside the church, in some churches there are still gravestone like tiles in the floor with names and dates on them, the practice was outlawed by royal decree in the 19th century but was pretty common before then
10:40 I went there. Apparently he did not only pray, he also sweated blood there. To be honest, I always found it a bit annoying during my holiday in Israel that every holy site has a church/shrine built around it. It makes it a lot harder to connect with the past and the events that transpired there. For example, the olive garden where Judas betrayed Jesus is a lot more managed than another olive garden nearby, which feels a lot more natural and gives you a feeling of what the place could've looked like at that time.
None of that happened, the Bible is fiction, so it wouldn’t matter if an office block was built on top op those sites.
America has lots of Olive Gardens, but the places are expensive.
Lol why would you go on holidays or summer/winter vacation? Always travel when there's the least tourist.
@@kellydalstok8900 you don't believe in God?
@@StallionFernando Do you believe in YHWH?
It's very interesting and you explain in a way that is easy 2 understand
If people have been kissing statues for a millenium you can't make them stop, all you can really do is change the statues...
Thankfully Christians are not faping over saint statues. That poor Aphrodite statue from somewhere...
@@nunyabiznes33 Yeah, it would be weird if, I don't know, the right foot of the Saint Peter statue in the Vatican would have been kissed so many times it's barely there anymore...
Excellent presentation.
I've always thought that the statues of saints that Italians carry through the streets on their feast days are actually just renamed heros and deities. They've been carrying those statues up the side of the mountain for 4,000 tears, only changing the name they use for it and adding details to the stories and rituals.
Similar idea, different icons
True...my heritage is Italian,so I've seen and experienced it first hand
This makes very much sense when you consider that pagan or pre-Christian statues in general when found by more "rural people" where often thought to be old saints.
the best example would be the bronzes of Riace, two giant bronze statues of greek origin dating to 460 BC.
when found in 1972 in Riace (Calabria) the local population immediatly "recognized" them as the patron saints of their town, Saint Cosma and Saint Damiano.
I don't think you can assist to a Saint festival (especially in southern italy) and see anything other than pagan rituals. I'm from there and I've seen plenty, that was always my impression.
Thanks for this channel. I love the forthright way you portray events. I love studying religions and glad to have such an objective reference.
This second part has nothing to do with religion but I have to say it. I love your beard! It is neat and tight not wild. Trying to get mine like yours.
OK back to the topic. Thanks much for your dynamic presentations and keep up the great work
When trying to ascertain the origins of early Christian ideas and practices, I’d highly recommend primarily dealing with biblical or Second Temple sources and then only secondarily looking for influences in things like paganism/Zoroastrianism/etc. There are examples of primary (Elisha’s bones) and secondary (Paul’s cloths) relics in the Bible itself. The Apocrypha describes the deceased prophet Jeremiah interceding in prayer for those living (2 Maccabees 15:14). Sirach 44 and Hebrews 11 glorify the holy people from the past. The main tenets of relics and Saint veneration are present without having to look to outside of the Judeo-Christian writings. That’s not to say that the expression didn’t take on more pagan flavors as Christianity spread outside the Jewish world to the Greco-Roman world, as Saints began to replace the pagan deities of the pantheon, so that people would pray to the saints instead of the gods. But this ties into ideas spread throughout the Old and New Testaments of the fallen gods/angels being judged and replaced by holy humans.
Paganism obviously influenced the development of Christianity, but as I said those influences are not even remotely as prevalent as the influences of the biblical and Second Temple writings and ideas.
14:55 Is that the inspiration for the catepillar sitting atop the toadstool in alice in wonderland?
"Have fellowship with his holy flesh"
They ate him, right?
At BEST.
In light of this, the rumors of christians practicing cannibalism spread by polytheistic romans back then have more palpability than we thought
@@devcrom3 oh god
In ecclesial Latin Sanctus means Holy, sometimes it refers to Saint, but only in specific cases like the Sanctorale which is part of the Breviary with the offices of the feast of the saints. The root, Sanct, always refers to something Holy or Blessed, in this example Sanctus Spiritus is directly translated to Holy Spirit, in the Ave Maria Sancte Maria is Holy Mary. Charming video.
14:19 so he's not a young man, but to call him ancient?
Wow never thought about this topic before
It's really interesting to think how the cult of saints intertwined with the local traditions of mesoamerican people, and how they still continue to this day
Hat do you mean?
I like how you change from shirt and suit to T-shirt in the informal (sponsored) section 😁
And here I thought it was the Greek gods that became Roman that became saints that became movie stars that became smartphone apps.
It has just occurred to me that an official characteristic of a recognised saint is to have displayed *heroic* virtue.
The word μάρτυρας=martyr doesn't mean witness in all counts, also means someone that had a tortured death μαρτυρικός θάνατος, μαρτύριο=martyrdom.The word has many meanings in Greek literature and poetry.
But the second meaning was almost certainly developed in response to already calling the martyrs - the people who were tortured to death - by this word as "witnesses." If you're a linguist you can confirm this by dating the meanings in Greek texts.
Modern Greek isn't a good background to understanding Koine or Classical Greek without learning them. Just like any foreign language.
Man, this videos are awesome.