Thanks - this is an interesting summary However, I don't understand your advice for determining FTP with continuous exercises such as push ups, pull ups and air squats, because you have to monitor the power output to determine power. How do you determine the power being generated when doing pushups or air squats. It's fairly easy with cycling and even running, but it is far less obvious with the circuit training activities you propose. Nevertheless, I appreciated the distinction between measuring FTP for strength vs endurance athletes, and the recommendations for % of FTP to use for VO2 max training. Now that you've covered the individual workout for improving VO2 max, I would be interested if you would address in a future video how many of these workouts should be done as part of a training program. Current philosophy appears to be the 80-20 Z2/Z4 training split, but this was arrived at by noticing what elite athletes tend to do. The problem with applying that universally is that elite athletes have a huge volume (20-30 hrs/week) and this split may be necessitated to give those athletes adequate recovery time. It isn't obvious that the same split is optimal for athletes with much lower volumes, such as 5 -10 hours/week. It seems entirely plausible that with lower overall training volume that a higher percentage of high intensity work might be better. I've not been able to find much in the literature addressing this specific concern though. - Just a thought 🙂
As someone who trains 8.5-10 hours per week and has been following 80:20 in favour of Zone 2…and experienced my overall fitness go backwards by following ‘The Science’, I have gone back to a 50:50 split and expect to start seeing improvements again. So many variables, but high volume Zone 2 isn’t working for me.
Bruce you are touching on the points I am exactly thinking about. 1. You are correct, power output during functional movement is hard to assess. But two things on that. I will be releasing a video in 2-ish weeks where I explain the function of a new wearable that can accurately estimate the power output during functional movements. I first did an FTP test on the rower, then did a 'FTP' using functional movement and the wattage during BOTH modalities (row and functional) was EXACTLY the same. I am pretty excited about this device and software - stay tuned for that. Secondly on that point, even if you do not know your exact power output while doing cindy for instance, it can be beneficial to know your rounds and reps during such a 20 min effort. As this is a good estimation of your FTP, you can start progressively overloading and retesting to better understand of your training is enhancing your 'functional' cardiovascular system, given there is no muscular fatigue during the movements. 2. You are entirely correct. There is nothing magical about zone 2. It is just a simple method to accumulate more training volume without getting overly fatigued. If you train
Very nice video!! Using Training Peaks as a source was also a great move. Their TSS metrics and also the articles are very very useful for endurance athletes training!! Great content
Thanks for the nice explanation! In Cycling sport the 20min FTP test is still a common thing. But the determination of individual FTP is difficult with using just the 95% rule. Another test protocol used is critical power. Where you use 2 or 3 different all out test of different time domains. With this approach, the individual anaerobic capacity's can be respected. A time trial of 4-5minutes is good to determine power at VO2 max. And a longer timetrial from minimum 10-12 minutes. And with this 2 tests the critical power can be calculated. This test protocols are also used for remote diagnostics like Inscyd or Aerotune.
Cool, thanks. Yes, we have done critical power test in CrossFit athletes (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38849121/). Did not hear yet about the comparison of a 3 min test vs. 12 min test. Will look into it.
How is this different compared to the oxygen utilisation training you mentioned before? That was a sprint workout with 1:10 work to rest ratio. Is that no longer recommended?
It is. That video was more to make the distinction between delivery and utilization limited atheltes and hence to fine-tune training. The method explained in this video is for a more general population to simply improve VO2max and overall fitness (when you do not know whether or not you're delivery / utilization limited)
Hey Doc! Great video and content, as usual! During the 4min intervals, aiming to hit 110-120% of the FTP, should we be worried about the HR zone we are into? or is it keeping the power output at the recommended % what dictates HR? Ill give you the data of my first session trying this protocol. On a separate day, I did my 8min ON, rest 8min ON FTP test on the echo bike. The FTP (test wattage - 5%) was around 190watts (they were not max efforts, I finished both 8min intervals @ ~175 bpm. Male, 31 YO, 1.85m, 105kg, body fat between 25-30%) 110-120% of the FTP is 209 to 229 watts. I did 4 min ON, 4min OFF, 5 rounds on the Echo bike 2 days after the test. The rounds results were: 1: avg 204 watts @ 151bpm 2: avg 222 watts @ 163bpm 3: avg 230 watts @ 172bpm 4: avg 230 watts @ 174bpm 5: avg 230 watts @ 175bpm The above bpms were noted after the end of each 4min interval (so, maximum HR reached) That averages to 223 watts across intervals. During the rest periods, HR dropped to around 100bpm after the first 2 intervals, and to 110bpm after intervals 3-5. Was this an ok attempt? Sorry for so many data and such a big wall of text 😅 I appreciate your kind attention and thanks for the help and the content you put up here, its pure gold!
Great breakdown. This looks great. No, HR is not the key variable here, WATTS are. How was the RPE on a scale from 1-10, I bet it was not 10 given the fact you could do all intervals.
@wod-science thanks very much!! Yeah, I'd say the RPE was between 7.5 and 8.5. Intervals 1 and 2 were ok, 3 to 5 got tough. Since you said in the video it was supposed to be hard, I thought it should have been harder 😅 The recovery time was just right to go again, with enough juice to hit the rpms for 4mins. Can we mix Ergs on the same session? Like 2 intervals on the echo bike and 3 on the rower, or like 2 echo 2 row 2 ski (i know this adds up to one extra round 😅). Thanks very much once again!
Joe Friel’s updated the standard 20 min. all out test actually. On the Training Peaks arcticle he wrote, he says to do a 30 min. time-trial like effort (on a uniform manner - not starting too hard and getting significantly weaker), then discard the first ten minutes of the effort, the remaining 20 minutes average power should represent your FTP. The more times you do this test, the more accurate your FTP will become, for you will learn the way to reproduce the test in a more uniform manner. :D
@@ulf. No the 30 min time trial test is still the better test. Sure a crossfiter that’s not a doing a lot of endurance will probably score low. But the point is to estimate MLSS, not try to find an easier test that is further away from the truth. It’s the same with 1 rep max strength testing where you do 1 rep max and not like 10 rep max…
I do somewhat concur with Ulf here, once the athlete is getting further up the 'strength' part of the continuum, doing such a long test will yield in subpar estimations of MLSS. You have to know that CrossFit athletes have a massive anaerobic capacity, are not used to sitting on a rower for more than 8 min and do not know how to pace 30 min efforts. Like for most things, it is individual, some will do well on the explained 30min test, most will do better on the 2 x 8 min test.
Let’s say that an athlete performs 20 rounds on Cindy, his “FTP” would be 90% of 20 rounds = 18 rounds or 0,9 rounds per minute; makes sense? In this case, 4 x 5 min at 110 % of 0,9 round per minute equals to 0,99 rounds per minute, any suggestions? Thanks in advance 😊
Yes, that would be a good way to structure it indeed. I have a video sceduled for next week Tuesday showing a device that can estimate (accurately) power production during functional movements. Stay tuned for that one.
Thanks - this is an interesting summary However, I don't understand your advice for determining FTP with continuous exercises such as push ups, pull ups and air squats, because you have to monitor the power output to determine power. How do you determine the power being generated when doing pushups or air squats. It's fairly easy with cycling and even running, but it is far less obvious with the circuit training activities you propose. Nevertheless, I appreciated the distinction between measuring FTP for strength vs endurance athletes, and the recommendations for % of FTP to use for VO2 max training.
Now that you've covered the individual workout for improving VO2 max, I would be interested if you would address in a future video how many of these workouts should be done as part of a training program. Current philosophy appears to be the 80-20 Z2/Z4 training split, but this was arrived at by noticing what elite athletes tend to do. The problem with applying that universally is that elite athletes have a huge volume (20-30 hrs/week) and this split may be necessitated to give those athletes adequate recovery time. It isn't obvious that the same split is optimal for athletes with much lower volumes, such as 5 -10 hours/week. It seems entirely plausible that with lower overall training volume that a higher percentage of high intensity work might be better. I've not been able to find much in the literature addressing this specific concern though. - Just a thought 🙂
As someone who trains 8.5-10 hours per week and has been following 80:20 in favour of Zone 2…and experienced my overall fitness go backwards by following ‘The Science’, I have gone back to a 50:50 split and expect to start seeing improvements again. So many variables, but high volume Zone 2 isn’t working for me.
Bruce you are touching on the points I am exactly thinking about.
1. You are correct, power output during functional movement is hard to assess. But two things on that. I will be releasing a video in 2-ish weeks where I explain the function of a new wearable that can accurately estimate the power output during functional movements. I first did an FTP test on the rower, then did a 'FTP' using functional movement and the wattage during BOTH modalities (row and functional) was EXACTLY the same. I am pretty excited about this device and software - stay tuned for that.
Secondly on that point, even if you do not know your exact power output while doing cindy for instance, it can be beneficial to know your rounds and reps during such a 20 min effort. As this is a good estimation of your FTP, you can start progressively overloading and retesting to better understand of your training is enhancing your 'functional' cardiovascular system, given there is no muscular fatigue during the movements.
2. You are entirely correct. There is nothing magical about zone 2. It is just a simple method to accumulate more training volume without getting overly fatigued. If you train
Makes sense.
Really helpful video - thanks for sharing your knowledge 👍
Pleasure!
Very nice video!! Using Training Peaks as a source was also a great move. Their TSS metrics and also the articles are very very useful for endurance athletes training!! Great content
Appreciate that
Thanks for the nice explanation! In Cycling sport the 20min FTP test is still a common thing. But the determination of individual FTP is difficult with using just the 95% rule. Another test protocol used is critical power. Where you use 2 or 3 different all out test of different time domains. With this approach, the individual anaerobic capacity's can be respected. A time trial of 4-5minutes is good to determine power at VO2 max. And a longer timetrial from minimum 10-12 minutes. And with this 2 tests the critical power can be calculated. This test protocols are also used for remote diagnostics like Inscyd or Aerotune.
Cool, thanks. Yes, we have done critical power test in CrossFit athletes (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38849121/). Did not hear yet about the comparison of a 3 min test vs. 12 min test. Will look into it.
Thank you for your advice. It's very much appreciated.
Very useful information 👍 Thank you.
How is this different compared to the oxygen utilisation training you mentioned before? That was a sprint workout with 1:10 work to rest ratio. Is that no longer recommended?
It is. That video was more to make the distinction between delivery and utilization limited atheltes and hence to fine-tune training. The method explained in this video is for a more general population to simply improve VO2max and overall fitness (when you do not know whether or not you're delivery / utilization limited)
@@wod-science 🙏🏻 thank you
Hey Doc! Great video and content, as usual!
During the 4min intervals, aiming to hit 110-120% of the FTP, should we be worried about the HR zone we are into? or is it keeping the power output at the recommended % what dictates HR?
Ill give you the data of my first session trying this protocol.
On a separate day, I did my 8min ON, rest 8min ON FTP test on the echo bike.
The FTP (test wattage - 5%) was around 190watts (they were not max efforts, I finished both 8min intervals @ ~175 bpm. Male, 31 YO, 1.85m, 105kg, body fat between 25-30%)
110-120% of the FTP is 209 to 229 watts.
I did 4 min ON, 4min OFF, 5 rounds on the Echo bike 2 days after the test.
The rounds results were:
1: avg 204 watts @ 151bpm
2: avg 222 watts @ 163bpm
3: avg 230 watts @ 172bpm
4: avg 230 watts @ 174bpm
5: avg 230 watts @ 175bpm
The above bpms were noted after the end of each 4min interval (so, maximum HR reached)
That averages to 223 watts across intervals.
During the rest periods, HR dropped to around 100bpm after the first 2 intervals, and to 110bpm after intervals 3-5.
Was this an ok attempt?
Sorry for so many data and such a big wall of text 😅 I appreciate your kind attention and thanks for the help and the content you put up here, its pure gold!
Great breakdown. This looks great. No, HR is not the key variable here, WATTS are. How was the RPE on a scale from 1-10, I bet it was not 10 given the fact you could do all intervals.
@wod-science thanks very much!! Yeah, I'd say the RPE was between 7.5 and 8.5. Intervals 1 and 2 were ok, 3 to 5 got tough. Since you said in the video it was supposed to be hard, I thought it should have been harder 😅 The recovery time was just right to go again, with enough juice to hit the rpms for 4mins.
Can we mix Ergs on the same session? Like 2 intervals on the echo bike and 3 on the rower, or like 2 echo 2 row 2 ski (i know this adds up to one extra round 😅). Thanks very much once again!
Fantastic!
Joe Friel’s updated the standard 20 min. all out test actually. On the Training Peaks arcticle he wrote, he says to do a 30 min. time-trial like effort (on a uniform manner - not starting too hard and getting significantly weaker), then discard the first ten minutes of the effort, the remaining 20 minutes average power should represent your FTP. The more times you do this test, the more accurate your FTP will become, for you will learn the way to reproduce the test in a more uniform manner. :D
@@ulf. No the 30 min time trial test is still the better test. Sure a crossfiter that’s not a doing a lot of endurance will probably score low. But the point is to estimate MLSS, not try to find an easier test that is further away from the truth. It’s the same with 1 rep max strength testing where you do 1 rep max and not like 10 rep max…
@@ulf. What are you looking to get out of it? What are your goals? How are you going to prescribe training based on the test?
Interesting, did not read that one yet.
I do somewhat concur with Ulf here, once the athlete is getting further up the 'strength' part of the continuum, doing such a long test will yield in subpar estimations of MLSS. You have to know that CrossFit athletes have a massive anaerobic capacity, are not used to sitting on a rower for more than 8 min and do not know how to pace 30 min efforts. Like for most things, it is individual, some will do well on the explained 30min test, most will do better on the 2 x 8 min test.
The "Cindy" idea is pretty good!
I suggest watching our latest video (published today) where we talk about power output during functional workouts such as Cindy. 👍
Let’s say that an athlete performs 20 rounds on Cindy, his “FTP” would be 90% of 20 rounds = 18 rounds or 0,9 rounds per minute; makes sense? In this case, 4 x 5 min at 110 % of 0,9 round per minute equals to 0,99 rounds per minute, any suggestions? Thanks in advance 😊
Yes, that would be a good way to structure it indeed. I have a video sceduled for next week Tuesday showing a device that can estimate (accurately) power production during functional movements. Stay tuned for that one.
I did the 2x8 min on the row. Got an avg of 315w on the first internal and 295w on the second
Would you say that is close enough?
Yes, that is very good capacity. Something we see in semi-final, even Games atheltes.
I use the Norwegian intervals with 4min of work with 3 minutes rest repeated 4 times.
Jep, and at which intensity (threshold or rather VO2max)?
So as someone leaning more towards strength I should work at 110% of the 90%😅
Same :)
'Leaning towards strength'... Nice way of saying you should work on your cardio :)