As Mohammed Ali said "I don't trust anyone who's nice to me but rude to the waiter, because they would treat me the same way is I was in that position". I've met some incredible musicians who are humble and gracious and they've always been the most productive ones to work with. The ones who've lead with a title didn't leave very much behind.
@@junacebedo888 oh he could bitch talk before a fight, but they all did that in their day. The comment is inappropriate and demeaning by the standards of today, to be sure. He was all about the performance and theatre of his sport, but away from that he was apparently a very nice guy.
@@dkimuk Ali got back to boxing after he was BANNED permanently because Frazier helped him, and that's the "gratitude" Ali gave to Smokin Joe. Ali even called Joe- a gorilla
@@junacebedo888 There's no excuse or justification for the way Ali treated Frazier. Frazier never forgave him and I don't blame him. It is an indelible stain on Ali's character and legacy.
This was such a well balanced statement. I live in Boston and can say Levine's presence here was a continuous source of unease and controversy. Your lessons learned from this situation are exactly right.
David your musial equivalent to 368 is the 5 composers series. You inspire a lot of people to step outside their comfort zone and do new things in music.
Kramer: "You know, you hurt the Maestro's feelings" Jerry: "Oh, because I didn't call him Maestro? Kramer: "That's right" Jerry: "You know, I feel a little funny calling someone Maestro!!"
@@eyvindjr It comes from the Latin magister which derived from magis meaning "plus". It's obviously a way to show respect, but also how we call elementary school teachers. It's not authoritarian per se, just recognising the important role someone has. We're not in 1930 anymore.
Absolutely, David. There's nothing wrong with looking up to and being inspired by someone, but we should always remember that they are our fellow, fallible meatbags!
that story about the producer is insane! Conductors and producers should work together as much as possible, especially these days where producers are becoming more and more important
Does it make me a bad person that this story lowered my opinion of him even more than the sexual misconduct allegations? Probably a little bit lol but that's how I feel. What a scumbag.
@@skoto8219 I'm the same. It's because the abuse story is too common now that it's not "surprising" to hear it about any public figure despite how horrific the crime is. But to hear that in a general sense they were also just a hideous person too makes it so much worse. I'm still triggered he got a settlement from that lawsuit
@@dfkfgjfg Right yeah, I think that's what it is. A really messed up way for me to look at it, I realize: "Well, he may have been a predator but at least he treated *most* people with respect!" And yeah, the settlement was insane, I had forgotten about that bit.
@@skoto8219 Yeah you've hit the nail on the head. It's an unfortunately natural way humans think and nothing to be ashamed of. In a way it helps he was also generally terrible because it makes him less defensible and therefore less people can ignore (or even support) what he did
Well I heard an anecdote that might establish quite different view on this "maestro-calling" thing; There was a conductor (sorry, forgot the name) who when he was younger used to conduct many orchestras around the world as host. And no matter where he was and somebody from the orchestra needed to ask something, they would just say "maestro, ..." and he was of course proud, that he is so on such a high level that they adore him and call him maestro. But later he realised, that they just didn't even know his name, so they called him maestro. Well and that gave him quite different view on this word and concept.
This is philosophy- philosophy of music, philosophy of art, philosophy of creativity, and it’s an absolute joy to find this kind of content, for free, here on this channel. In line with the topic of the video, you’ve inspired me to apply my knowledge of philosophy to my first love; music. Wish me luck!
I feel this manner is similar to Dr. and how some people treat it. I have a teacher who always demands to be called Dr. and if you don’t, he’ll sternly correct you. And even thought he’s a decent musician, there are people at my college that are better teachers and musicians, but he looks down upon them because they don’t have a DMA. Edit after thinking about this for a little while: I also should add that the whole culture around the idea of the pinnacle of knowledge, in particular the liberal arts, is often based on the Doctorate. While I understand that it’s important, and that the work often required does create a very vast, yet firm area of knowledge, the idea that they are the sole arbiter on who is and isn’t knowledgeable is just wrong. Going back to my teacher, I am much more versed on the ideas behind orchestration and composition, but because he has a DMA so he scoffs off anything that I teach just because I don’t have a degree yet.
@@FreakieFan weeell I wouldn’t oversimplify, but, yeah it’s kinda true. These people act like the titles are their only thing to hold on to. In my college too, one of my worst teachers is coincidentally one of the only ones who sign every email as “dr. (...)”
I had a teacher at school who had three doctor degrees. He was usually just called Mr. ... When someone called him Dr. he usually replied: “To be fully correct, you’d have to call me Dr. Dr. Dr. Or you just call me Mr. and both of us save a lot of time and effort “
As I listened to Black or White by MJ on my run today, I was thinking about this very thing - trying to formulate my thoughts - so I’m very grateful to you for helping me along in my attempt to have all of this make sense. Great video.
Thanks Aimee - yes I think the hardest MJ songs to listen to are the ones where he's preaching about being a good person in one way or another. Impossible not to think about the hypocrisy
Thank you, it helped me too. Just in the last couple of months, I had to work out what to do with two Rolf Harris songbooks that I inherited. As an Australian of a certain age, his influence on my childhood can't be understated, but the childhoods that he destroyed loomed very large.
Both of your misreads would contribute to a beautiful title: David Bruce Composer: The Problem With Pedals And Defecation 😂 I'd definitely want to know what the hell the video is about...
I thought this would be a video on deification of “the composer’s intention” and the death of creative liberty in performers, but this was also a fascinating video too!
This genuinely might be one of the most important videos I've seen insofar as the discussion of "art vs artist" exists. I'm genuinely gently ducking my head to you for explaining the issue so well. Not idolizing you, not putting you on that pedestal, but acknowledging the potency of your message.
I work in a major European concert hall and the maestro culture is definitely problematic. I’ve seen managers doing all they can if it spares them saying no to a « maestro », even for insignificant problems. By the way, very interesting definition of what « inspiration » means, great vid as always !!
You will have spotted Yo Yo Ma playing cello in the waiting room of the clinic after his COVID shot recently; a great example of egalitarian spirit in a musical giant. Really enjoyed this.
My friend who interned at a orchestra hall told me about meeting him. Apparently he was super modest and kind. He spoke to the interns without even introducing himself because that just didn't matter
Mr. Woods, I just read your blog post and thank you for writing it. I started listening to classical music about 25 years ago, and at least 20 years ago there was open discussion on classical music forums about Levine being a pedophile and everybody in the business knowing it. Everybody in management at the Met and BSO and anywhere else who had a hand in hiring or retaining him needs to be fired. And institutions like the NYT and Boston Globe who knew but didn't allow it to be reported (i.e. management or editors who made the decisions, not reporters) also need to be held accountable.
@@martifingers true, but this is another story, but in this case the person is so "far" from you that just seeing the person is already an achievement ...
This is not only true, but I will see somewhat highly acclaimed people, no matter their profession, deliberately distance themselves from other people (their fans I guess) in order to achieve this exact kind of "fame". But also they do it so they can't get criticized, they want the image of them being always right and never wrong, and at that, they'll even shutdown or cancel individuals who will challenge and stand up to them, disagree with them or even disprove them in some cases.
Nicely and accurately stated, Mr. Bruce. Decades ago, prior to my acting career, I was a studio musician in Nashville. Some of my friends worked with Elvis. One in particular, Bobby Wood - a VERY successful songwriter ("Talking In Your Sleep" - Crystal Gale "smash"), worked with Elvis. Bottom line, he said Elvis was as down to earth as any person. I myself worked with Johnny Cash - albeit in a television film - but I can say Cash was as easy to get along with and down to earth as anyone else....and I stay in touch with "The Oak Ridge Boys" fairly consistently as former colleagues in publishing....all that being said, I certainly worked with my share of stinkers...even predators like Levine...both men AND women in the film business...now I find myself "coaching" the younger generation on how to tune their "radar" when dealing with "maesto-mania"...Your essay will be a good one to share with them. Finally...I always enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work.....
This makes me think of the story of how David Bowie saw Velvet Underground live for the first time and met Lou Reed, whom he idolized. It was a very impactful and inspiring moment. The things is, he found out afterwards that it was not Lou Reed he met, but a stand-in, because Reed was ill. After thinking about it he realized that the experience was no less meaningful even if it was in a sense fake. This experience played a role in his invention of his alter ego, Ziggy Stardust. By pretending to already be a superstar he became way more famous than he was at the time. I can't remember where I heard this story and I have no idea whether it's true, but at this point, if I found out it isn't, does it really matter? 😀
I can never take seriously “Maestro” as an honorific form of address for even the most esteemed of musicians. I always first think of the character from Seinfeld.
Thanks. This brings to mind 2 similar things I learned from incredible sources. First, I went to a clinic with Quincy Jones who encouraged everyone to go up and talk to the musicians, classical, jazz, pop after their performance. He said something like "if they won't talk to you, they're not worth listening to." Second was a college forum where the guest speaker was Edward Teller who wanted to continue to talk to the students up in one of the dormitories. We all gathered around and he said "The freedom to talk to anyone, is what has lead to the greatest achievements," (a paraphrase on my behalf). I found it to be true.
Separating Art from the Artist can be a useful lense of analysis. But it is just that. One lense among many. It shouldn't be treated as the be all end all of art analysis and in many ways art is inseparable from it's creator.
I usually prefer the title "bandleader" over "conductor", even when I am conducting precisely because of these associations. And to make a point that even when I lead the orchestra, I am not above the musicians, but a part of the band.
@@Ana_crusis I agree, and depending on context, I might use the title. There might also be a difference between languages: I'm not really talking about the English word "conductor", but the Swedish equivalent "dirigent".
@@RikardPeterson Oh I see there may be a difference in what the word implies in Swedish; I wouldn't know. a curious language fact, unrelated: in England we used to have bus conductors. they worked on the bus selling tickets etc. but they didn't drive. Whereas In Portugal, where I live, drivers are called 'condutors ( and the people who sell tickets are called Maestro) (no, just made up that last bit 😂
@@auldthymer They all mean they same as they do in English and Portuguese. It can mean teacher in Italian as well, and we have an M.A. which is a Master of Arts or an M,Sc. and the word schoolmaster etc etc as well as Maestro However, they have very different functions .One is as a legitimate academic title ( i.e. a job as schoolmaster or an academic achievement as in M.Sc.) the other is purely honorific. that's the point.
Interesting video David. I think there is a big difference between coming across someone who is inspiring, and being told that you should be inspired by someone :-) In other words, the old Buddhist saying, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear"
what an inspiring video. from my own experiences i can tell how important it is to stand up against rudness of people you are working with. you have to tell them that they do wrong - especially when you like them. most of them need these advices, the earlier the better. thanks from the heart for this clip!
The bit about inspiration sometimes being a misunderstanding is interesting- it feels kind of similar to the ‘Death of the Author’ idea in literary criticism where an artist’s intentions are on some level irrelevant to an interpretation, but I like David Bruce’s characterization of it a lot more. I think it feels a lot closer to the personal experience of pulling something useful from an unsupported (perhaps from the perspective of the creator at least) interpretation.
Me too. Of course there can be more in good art (including literature and music) than the artist consciously intended but then art is subjective; what we find there may come from us alone; the art just made us think and inspired us to create our own idea. It seems misleading to claim that something is truly present in that piece of art; it would be more honest to say only that we want to analyze that art in a new way.
David, I really appreciate your insight and I respect your level-headed perspective. This was a message that you felt led to share, and you did it tactfully and and fairly. Bravo.
Well articulated. As a sound engineer I’ve worked with a lot of ‘names’. Many are respectful, collaborative, and want to make a great show. A few revolve around their ego, and as you say that is their fault and their problem to sort. In the end the show usually suffers, and their audience don’t get what they could get.
Not in music, but I did/do have to work with a "maestro" in at times. I have experienced that "3rd person" talk first hand and it was dehumanizing. He made the projects he headlined unnecessarily complex so they are difficult to decypher and withholds the knowledge from others to ensure everyone must go back to him and therefore guaranteeing job security. Later on we were lucky to receive someone who I actually would refer to as a maestro through his skill and experience, all the while he's also incredibly humble and helpful. The two collided on a project and the "fake" one got burnt really bad. Turns out he wasn't all that jazz after all, did not have that deep understanding he put forward. All it took was someone with better skills and more humanity to challenge him. It was a very useful story for me personally.
Thank you for this thoughtful and non-preachy vlog. Of course there are conductors who are hard working, inspirational and thoroughly likable musicians.
Omg you should come to Iran and see what Ostad means. This was one of the best videos I’ve seen on youtube music channels. Urgent and relevant. Thank you.
The whole issue with idol-worship (and the inevitable side effects) always remind me of the "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" commandment. I'm not a Christian, but of all the things in the Bible this probably rings most true to me to this day. Both when looking at some of the sexual harassment/abuse of power position cases that have come out recently, as well as when I look at the state of pop-culture (influencers, celebrating mediocrity etc.). If you tell a person they are God-level in their field enough times eventually they may start believing it, and acting like it is true, rather than a compliment.
The Caananite off shoot of people that would become the cult of Yahweh and eventually the Hebrews emerged from a polytheistic society. That bit about no other gods was probably meant as a ranking system. First, me, Yahweh. Then all the other gods. Of course, nowadays people read it to mean no gods at all. So a broad cultural misunderstanding inspired you, another form of "misunderstanding", to take a more anarchist view of hierarchy. And none of that is meant to say you're wrong. I just thought the compounding layers of misunderstanding and interpretation was interesting and funny.
@@rainbowkrampus that's a nice theory, but it makes no sense in the context of the rest of scripture and it's doctrine. Not to mention obvious verses like Isaiah 45:5.
@@rainbowkrampus I think you're misrepresenting the text here. You aren't strictly wrong about there being a "ranking" of gods, but you say it as if it is a bad thing that devalues Yahweh. The idea of "gods" or "polytheism" means something very different to westerners than it would have to the Israelites. Their word for "god" simply meant spiritual beings. So they aren't lying when they refer to other gods. But many passages make it clear that those gods deserve none of our loyalty because Yahweh is supreme, which is counter to what polytheism implies today. Hopefully I'm not misreading you.
@@rainbowkrampus That doesn't seem to make much sense to me when you consider the controversy over the nature of Jesus' being his time. If the idea that there was only one true God is only a modern reading of the text, why did people seem so bothered by Jesus' claim to be God? If the testimony of people (both in and out of the Bible) at the time is to be believed it seems like most people seemed to think that there could only be Yahweh. Also doesn't the very existence of the very early church kind of refute the idea this is a modern thing? Seems pretty clear that early Christians (including Jewish Christians) read the verse as there being one God and that any other God was a non-entity, and that certainly you were not allowed to worship or believe in any other god. And I mean that's a 2000 (give or take) year old reading of that verse, so I'm guessing that wasn't included under the umbrella of "nowadays".
@@MabinogiChristianJ You've misinterpreted my "nowadays" to imply that it is exclusively a reading contained within modern interpretations. I said, nowadays simply to refer to present day readings. The transition from a polytheistic reading of Yahweh to a monotheistic one took a long time. But we're talking about a period of nearly 6 thousand years, so the conversion was still a long time ago. People current to Jesus were probably no more or less bothered by his claims than any random sampling of people you might poll today. Apocalyptic cults were all the rage around that time. Some dude called Jesus claiming to be the messiah wouldn't have been particularly novel to anyone. There's a decent chance there were multiple dudes named Yeshua running around claiming to be the messiah at that time. I wouldn't put too much stock in the tales of hype men writing decades to centuries after the time of their cult's founder. Same thing happened with Joseph Smith. He just had the misfortune to start a cult in a time when reading and writing were more wide spread abilities. Just think, in another 100 years or so people will be having this same discussion about L. Ron Hubbard. With any luck, instability from global warming will have wiped us off the face of the Earth by then.
The best part is taking the inspiration from who you like and then making your own thing, having your own musical journey, you make some great points here, it's so true, the ones who think they're better end up becoming worse. God bless.
Brilliant and thank you. I never let "status" intimidate me and won't tolerate rudeness or a stuck up attitude. There are some like that even in the audiences for classical, and that is unfortunate. I'll encourage anyone from any background to go to concerts.
Brilliant topic David. As my late wife Kaneko Jean Oetjens once said: "It's a long way down from pedestal to Baggage Claim." The trouble I see with Inspiration and Deification as functional, practical models is that (just like the worst attributes of economics), they are dependent upon and reinforce dependency on The Social Power Laws (which follow similar patterns as the analogous Power Laws from physics - often with Logistic Curves intact). Most human inequities are drawn from this surrender to the easiest "path of least resistance", and I would argue that it is this century's greatest human challenge (aside from existential crises such as Climate Change). We cannot continue to pretend that society is a significant benefit to the individual while the poorest of them (in one of the richest nations in the world) have suffered a 15 year reduction in lifespan. Contrasting this dismal fact with lack of common concern that its poly-Billionaires won't even extend the courtesy of a healthy tithe or other modern equivalent of "Noblesse Oblige", let alone feel compelled to pay their fair share of taxes. I believe that Social Power, and other factors of influence like Economic Value and notoriety need to be "damped" to prevent the current levels of Gain via Social Amplification from "clipping" the potential of society as a whole. I suggest that a version of a "Hype Compressor" is needed in all areas of human concern; to be designed into every real or abstract structure such that they can return power to those whom need it the most: the common citizen. "Trickle-down" never worked. A stronger house is built from the strongest foundations upward.
Great work with this. I always admire people that engage with an uncomfortable subject like this beyond the first layer and dig around to find something interesting. Though not to the extent of deifying them, so don't worry about that Maestro.
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this subject. I often wonder about this connection we build up with creative people we admire. It's hard sometimes to distance yourself from them because you hope these are people you could meet and hang out with and think the way you do. But artists are just people, and sometimes they can be very flawed. At the same time, these flaws have an effect on the artist's creative process which can result in great works of art. It's kind of a conundrum.
Andre Previn was a regular customer at the Beverly Hills bookstore where I worked. There were many famous and well known people from many fields and in my experience they were friendly. Andre Previn in particular was friendly, approachable, and kind. Very down to earth in my experience. In other instances so were Peter Maxwell Davies and Richard Rodney Bennett.
Thank you for this. I'm always happy when I see/hear things such as your comment. I don't at all enjoy knowing that someone whose work I've admired is a jerk, and am very glad to learn that someone is not. Carol Burnett comes to mind as someone who is thoroughly unjerky. My Swedish mother, two aunts, and grandmother went backstage, hoping to meet Jussi Bjoerling when he was in Chicago. ( You could do that circa 1950. ) Not only was he welcoming, he was delighted to be able to speak Swedish with someone again.
Couldn’t agree more. After reading some of these posts, it seems that in certain circles the term may carry different wait. In my experience, the term itself is one of respect that a musician may use out of respect for their conductor... I’ve never known a conductor to demand to be called Maestro. That idea is a bit ludicrous to me. I mean, if my musicians call me Maestro I like it, but I surely don’t request it. Conversely, when my conducting teachers were on the podium I called them Maestro, but one-on-one I used their first name. I’ve never been one to hero-worship so perhaps this entire situation feels very foreign to me.
Amazing video, I remember when I met Carlos Prieto in a book fair, I honestly thought it was a random old man and I just screamed "Carlos" and he came to say hi to me and we had a nice chat about trying to be a cellist in Mexico.
Elisabeth Gilbert does a TED Talk (I know but it's interesting darn it!) about an old version of the idea of genius, not as a trait, but as a force we are visited by--and how this can separate the artist from the ego for both the person and those surrounding them. It's not mystical as she's invoking it, but more an acknowledgement of how complex the impact of creative work is, and often how much of it is outside the creator. There is a psychological side as well, allowing some interesting ways to relate to the creative process. It very much seems related to what you're mulling over here, so I thought it was worth a mention. The talk is Your Creative Genius, and I think it's out there in article form as well.
You're so spot on, everything you say is true. Especially the part re inspiration. I've worked with many good conductors, both as a boy's choir director and also as a singer, and the putting up on a pedestal of some of them has always bothered me. The story of James Levine's immense pompousness reminds me of a few of them. But the human story of Yo Yo Ma reminds me of a lot of them! Thanks for a great vid.
Well said. I always think of "maestro" as simply meaning that someone is a master of their craft, which doesn't imply that anyone should idolize them, but does imply that many could learn from them. Benefiting from the presence or work of someone does not entail loyalty to them. Inspiration can definitely arise from misunderstanding, or accident. Bob Dylan said that he frequently got great ideas from mishearing bits of conversation. Many of us hear melodies in random noises on the street. I had a friend who sang under Levine & I got the distinct impression that everyone knew perfectly well about "Jimmy's" disgraceful Achilles heel pretty much from the beginning. All the musicians said he was a really great opera conductor & very helpful to singers. I heard him give an extraordinary, very moving short performance of a Schoenberg solo piece on piano at a memorial service for the wonderful pianist Paul Jacobs. Human beings are complex.
One of the most well-known novels, “The Catcher in the Rye”, comes from Holden Caulfield’s misinterpretation of a poem caused by the fact that he thinks his life is meaningless. It’s pretty interesting how misinterpretation can lead to even more stuff.
Thank you, David. We talk a lot nowadays about sexism, about racism, about an entire litany of specific and targeted abuses, but somehow the underlying common themes of corruption and inhumanity get overlooked. This is not to say that historical and cultural injustices are unimportant-far from it-but at the end of the day it seems to me that while any given prejudice is something someone can ultimately be educated out of, the willingness to act out such prejudice to gratify oneself and bring misery to others is a separate and more deep rooted sin. And whether the trade is in currency, in sex, or in some kind of social status, we should be equally willing to recognise and combat racketeering for what it is. As to how we should deal with work that came at high cost to others-rather than writing that work out of history, and in the process losing both the art and the lesson, can't we find some path of remembrance and even restitution? I've heard it argued that medical research should be disregarded if it doesn't meet basic ethical standards, but condemning a second cycle of people to death for the sins of our ancestors is hardly an ethical triumph. Better, I think, to find strategies to memorialise the suffering of the past, and to give back the names and the faces of the lost. I can imagine introducing a custom of a dedication and a few seconds of silence for the victims before public performances of works with problematic histories, but perhaps someone can think of something even better.
This is a wonderful and insightful discussion of this issue. Personally, I never understood the idolization of Levine, but that's irrelevant. As a contrast to this mindset, there was the great Christopher Hogwood. I once had him to my home for dinner during his stay to conduct "Ariodante." He was gracious to everyone, incredibly informed about everything (truly), and could not have been more at ease.
In italian Maestro is just a professional title. Just as someone with a degree is a "doctor", people who graduates in a Conservatory or in an Arts Academy is called "maestro d'arte". I didn't know the connotation the word acquired outside Italy.
Levine was fired in 2018??? Sheesh- I remember in the NINTETIES when I was in... I think way back in high school hearing about Levine and his.... "dalliances." I remember making a joke to my high school music theory/choral teacher that whenever they did "Carmen" at the Met and the children's chorus would come out on stage, Levine would watch as they filed past and tick them off with his finger from the pit: "need him, had him, need 'im, need 'im, had 'im, had 'im..." I remember out of curiosity googling him about 10-15 years ago and being shocked that they'd never arrested or formally accused him of anything. I thought "well... maybe we were wrong and it was all ugly rumor." Oh well. The Met is as bad as the Catholic Church at the time I suppose.
Hey David, hey guys. I am a 2nd year bachelor student in harpsichord from Lebanon (the first one ever) and my country quickly got really really poor last year. So I would ask: what can I do related to music to earn money? What do you think is a good idea for me as a solo concertist in Vienna? I thought that I could invite tourists to the same concert that I will repeat once a week, because obviously tourists in Austria come for the historical music. Leave a comment please
Good blog. Inspiration: a thought/idea came to me today that I never had before: take inspiration from a recording's mental/emotional impact, in how it unfolds, to how a piece of fiction writing unfolds (i've never written fiction but still...). Leaders/followers syndrome: i suspect a lot of pop psychology perpetuates old aristo nonsense in terms of manners: people only communicating to others through an intermediary; turning their back in silence (like a classical ostracism): I see these things in people's behaviour quite a bit and if, in my own head, I think "how could anyone possibly feel the inclination, or seeming wish or need, to do something like that?", it seems others see it as a way to exercise authority. that's the key word: authority. in the sense meant, it means nothing to me, but it means everything to some, it seems. i'm not sure if it is a question of the way societies are always "organised" or if it is down to the role of actors in life. kipling: "be the same with/to peasant or king"; an actor (richard harris actually I think): "an actor is someone who can make anyone think of them as a king just by the way they act". society is full of actors, seeking to make an impression. so strangely, the less self-conscious one is, the more natural one may appear yet the less impression one might make. bizarre thing, is life.
Thank you so much for your statement. I grew up alongside Levine's recordings and as an artist I really appreciate what he was able to bring together - especially with such great musicians to direct. As a human being though, he seems pretty abhorrent and so when he was fired, and when he passed I remember feeling a great sense of loss and disappointment at how someone I admired for many years was capable of such atrocities. I'm glad you brought up Wagner too actually - because despite him also being a human trash fire, as have many of his fanatics been throughout history (Alex Ross' new book on "Wagnerism" is both a beautiful and disturbing insight into his music and it's impact), his art is almost singularly extraordinary and constantly exciting. In equal measure - I also saw a fabulous documentary recently on Hitler's artworks - and again, stunningly beautiful (if an early insight into his overly idealised view of Germanic Locales) but obviously from the human trash fire of all trash fires. Right now is a really good time to be continuing the conversation of whether people should continue to appreciate art even when it is created by such deeply evil and flawed human beings. I for one have always been one to seperate Art from the Artist - but I find it interesting to figure out to what extent people are willing to appreciate said works...
Wow! it’s so important, edifying and necessary that you veer away from “musical nerdery” at times, since it feels utterly true to you. And your you-ness is what informs everything you do and which gives your channel its own unique and alluring nature - your authenticity, depth and insight AND your mischievous joy and yes the seriousness which you impart. Such “deviations”, as this, are crucial to us understanding, enjoying and BELIEVING everything you do here. It dimensionalizes and underlines this so-called “nerdery”. I tune into your channel as the other channels I just keep coming back to because you ARE inspiring, truth-saying and well.... YOU. I could go on and on, but suffice to say, THANK YOU for being so generous and unflinching as to give us all of you. It’s courageous, brave, and daring. And that, maestro (oops!) is the kind of humble, humane and ‘spiritually’ enabling characteristics of well... a kind of greatness that you show us is within everybody’s reach. And that, kind person, is the nourishment and food we would be wise to take from any and every source we can on whatever path we may choose in this great conundrum and cauldron of creative endeavour... And as such this weeks awesome gift is no deviation at all. It’s just more so YOU. And that is generosity defined. So there! Cop that, mister, and smoke it up your pipe. 😊❤️🙏🏻 In short, brilliant! Thank you. (And you too have inspired yet another RUclips aspirant with your own kind of unique and inspiring mastery of the form and how you choose to shape and wield and execute it. Beautifully and engagingly.) And well thinking back to my initial response, before embarking on articulating it... I’m frankly speechless. Thank you. You said it all. (And made me question my own approach to my future RUclips voice and vision, and endeavours. And my musical nerdery.) Cheers mate! You god! 😊💎😊😎🎩
very good video! as someone who is fundamentally a 'Jazz' musician (but gets hired by orchestras too), I've always been very cynical about the hierarchical nature of 'classical' music (some of the members of the orchestra that I've freelanced with for over 20 years still ignore me completely, others make 'jokes' about the electric guitar and yet, of course, a lot of the others are totally cool!). I've found that the best ones eschew all that nonsense (Marc-Andre Hamelin being the last example I can think of, we did "Rhapsody in Blue" together a couple of years back) and they're just nice people who happen to also be incredibly hard working and talented. the ones who put on the airs and graces tend to be the insecure people that have perhaps been promoted beyond their actual abilities and need to act the part instead - I could name names but I'll resist as I don't have $3.5m to fight a lawsuit :-)
as someone who has a habit of idolizing people, I find your observation that you can think you're copying someone whilst making your best and most original work quite comforting :)
I can't relate to being inspired by public figures. I don't want to seem like I'm a know-it-all: I don't personally know most people whose works and whose craft I enjoy, I don't know their personal lives or most of their biographies. But all people are flawed and that's something I always keep in my mind watching someone, so that I don't end up being disappointed by the reality not matching some imaginary construct I have clung onto. It's really hard for me to get inspired by, say, Casey's interesting clutter, or his electrical skateboarding through the city. It's so clear that it's all to impress the audience and who knows what his really bad days look like, the days that you can't film and show to millions of people, the days that you share only with your bestie with. I'm developing an online business myself and I'm aware that working to impress the audience is the most effective way to go, so I'm not dissing on Casey or anyone who caters to the "views". Just pointing out that I don't dare to engage in imaginary character constructs based off of any media. Media is just an artform, you can't take it seriously for the most part, nor can you take seriously the characters you see on it. And when it comes to Levine or anyone in classical music, especially when they are a person in power... I'm from the classical music world myself (violinist here), and I'm acutely aware that these positions aren't given for the merit only. There is so much more effort and action, and usually not of the moral kind, that goes into achieving this kind of popularity in classical music back in the day, when Levine rose to power. It's gotten better since then but still many things begging to be changed. But back in the day, where everything had to be hush-hush and presented in a certain light even when everybody knew the truth, but everybody HAD to play along OR ELSE... I can't look up to these figures, even if I wanted to I couldn't. It's just so unimpressive and weak, in my opinion: to intimidate, abuse and threaten others to give you the respect you haven't earned by honest means means yet... It's just very loser-like.
Currently teaching my Intro to Western Music class Mozart's Magic Flute and addressing his deep seeded racism and the problem of deification in classical music culture. I think we might just throw out the deification process because most of those we deify don't deserve it.
That's exACTly what inspiration is: a kind of misunderstanding/misreading. Webern, in the Path to the New Music, identifies a few works by Beethoven that were inspirational to him... whether or not Beethoven would been able to see what he meant, well, that's another story. Harold Bloom's books A Map of Misreading and The Anxiety of Influence are fascinating discussions of this phenomenon.
A couple of guys are watching a group of songbirds singing in front of another bird who sometimes flaps his wings. One of the guys says: “They sound beautiful but what’s the deal with the one who flaps his wings but never sings.” The other guy answers, “No one knows, but the other birds all call him Maestro.”
One of the interesting aspects of deification is that many, maybe most, people seem to need gods. Most cultures have them, after all, which is pretty telling. It's not too difficult to see how that need could get transferred onto living people, particularly onto people who may seem to have divine, inexplicable gifts. The connection to highly accomplished musicians is facilitated by the mysterious nature of music and how strongly it can affect people. Although it isn't meant literally (well, not usually), it's even common to see some musicians referred to as "gods", e.g., guitar gods Jimi Hendrix, John MacLaughlin, and Richard Thompson. And of course, people don't like to question their gods, because that makes them less god-like. All of this can set up pretty unhealthy situations, I think, but it can also be educational for everyone involved. It might be that we need to understand more about what it is in humans that makes this happen, and the best ways to handle it. A video like this one is helpful in that direction.
Regarding the Messiaen/Stravinsky bit, I think the literary scholar Harold Bloom had a similar concept with regards to poets overcoming their anxiety over the influence of their predecessors through what he referred to as kind of a creative misreading.
Important and seams to be quite personal as well. Thank you! I follow your video for quite some time and I like to know if you are planning a video about the so called New Classic movement, like Max Richter, Nils Frahm, etc. Thank you and take care
As Mohammed Ali said "I don't trust anyone who's nice to me but rude to the waiter, because they would treat me the same way is I was in that position".
I've met some incredible musicians who are humble and gracious and they've always been the most productive ones to work with. The ones who've lead with a title didn't leave very much behind.
Muhammad Ali was very rude to Joe Frazier; calling the latter "Uncle Tom". I guess Ali is nice to waiters
@@junacebedo888 oh he could bitch talk before a fight, but they all did that in their day. The comment is inappropriate and demeaning by the standards of today, to be sure. He was all about the performance and theatre of his sport, but away from that he was apparently a very nice guy.
@@dkimuk Ali got back to boxing after he was BANNED permanently because Frazier helped him, and that's the "gratitude" Ali gave to Smokin Joe. Ali even called Joe- a gorilla
@@junacebedo888 There's no excuse or justification for the way Ali treated Frazier. Frazier never forgave him and I don't blame him. It is an indelible stain on Ali's character and legacy.
@@Don-md6wn I was not aware of this, and stand corrected.
This was such a well balanced statement. I live in Boston and can say Levine's presence here was a continuous source of unease and controversy. Your lessons learned from this situation are exactly right.
David your musial equivalent to 368 is the 5 composers series. You inspire a lot of people to step outside their comfort zone and do new things in music.
Kramer: "You know, you hurt the Maestro's feelings"
Jerry: "Oh, because I didn't call him Maestro?
Kramer: "That's right"
Jerry: "You know, I feel a little funny calling someone Maestro!!"
Nice. Well quoted. :)
As an Italian... I call maestro every adult professional musician.
The question is if the language is reflecting an autharian tendency in the culture or if it is only a way of showing respect. Maybe even both?
@@eyvindjr It comes from the Latin magister which derived from magis meaning "plus". It's obviously a way to show respect, but also how we call elementary school teachers. It's not authoritarian per se, just recognising the important role someone has. We're not in 1930 anymore.
Sometimes the orchestra just says “Maestro” because we can’t be bothered to learn the guy’s name.
Or to avoid the risk of pronouncing his name wrong and offending him.
Absolutely, David. There's nothing wrong with looking up to and being inspired by someone, but we should always remember that they are our fellow, fallible meatbags!
One should strive to not idolize the people themselves, but rather their work, ideas and concepts etc.
that story about the producer is insane! Conductors and producers should work together as much as possible, especially these days where producers are becoming more and more important
Does it make me a bad person that this story lowered my opinion of him even more than the sexual misconduct allegations? Probably a little bit lol but that's how I feel. What a scumbag.
@@skoto8219 nah I get u
@@skoto8219 I'm the same. It's because the abuse story is too common now that it's not "surprising" to hear it about any public figure despite how horrific the crime is. But to hear that in a general sense they were also just a hideous person too makes it so much worse. I'm still triggered he got a settlement from that lawsuit
@@dfkfgjfg Right yeah, I think that's what it is. A really messed up way for me to look at it, I realize: "Well, he may have been a predator but at least he treated *most* people with respect!"
And yeah, the settlement was insane, I had forgotten about that bit.
@@skoto8219 Yeah you've hit the nail on the head. It's an unfortunately natural way humans think and nothing to be ashamed of. In a way it helps he was also generally terrible because it makes him less defensible and therefore less people can ignore (or even support) what he did
Well I heard an anecdote that might establish quite different view on this "maestro-calling" thing; There was a conductor (sorry, forgot the name) who when he was younger used to conduct many orchestras around the world as host. And no matter where he was and somebody from the orchestra needed to ask something, they would just say "maestro, ..." and he was of course proud, that he is so on such a high level that they adore him and call him maestro. But later he realised, that they just didn't even know his name, so they called him maestro. Well and that gave him quite different view on this word and concept.
This is philosophy- philosophy of music, philosophy of art, philosophy of creativity, and it’s an absolute joy to find this kind of content, for free, here on this channel. In line with the topic of the video, you’ve inspired me to apply my knowledge of philosophy to my first love; music. Wish me luck!
I completely agree with the point of the video Maestro :D
I feel this manner is similar to Dr. and how some people treat it. I have a teacher who always demands to be called Dr. and if you don’t, he’ll sternly correct you. And even thought he’s a decent musician, there are people at my college that are better teachers and musicians, but he looks down upon them because they don’t have a DMA.
Edit after thinking about this for a little while: I also should add that the whole culture around the idea of the pinnacle of knowledge, in particular the liberal arts, is often based on the Doctorate. While I understand that it’s important, and that the work often required does create a very vast, yet firm area of knowledge, the idea that they are the sole arbiter on who is and isn’t knowledgeable is just wrong. Going back to my teacher, I am much more versed on the ideas behind orchestration and composition, but because he has a DMA so he scoffs off anything that I teach just because I don’t have a degree yet.
“It's Dr. Evil, I didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called "mister," thank you very much.”
he sounds insecure...
@@NothingFunnyAboutTheseCarpets
Anyone who is so fervent about being called by their 'titles' is deeply insecure. Simple as that.
@@FreakieFan weeell I wouldn’t oversimplify, but, yeah it’s kinda true. These people act like the titles are their only thing to hold on to. In my college too, one of my worst teachers is coincidentally one of the only ones who sign every email as “dr. (...)”
I had a teacher at school who had three doctor degrees. He was usually just called Mr. ... When someone called him Dr. he usually replied: “To be fully correct, you’d have to call me Dr. Dr. Dr. Or you just call me Mr. and both of us save a lot of time and effort “
As I listened to Black or White by MJ on my run today, I was thinking about this very thing - trying to formulate my thoughts - so I’m very grateful to you for helping me along in my attempt to have all of this make sense. Great video.
Thanks Aimee - yes I think the hardest MJ songs to listen to are the ones where he's preaching about being a good person in one way or another. Impossible not to think about the hypocrisy
She's the lady from the simon fransman videos. wow!
Thank you, it helped me too. Just in the last couple of months, I had to work out what to do with two Rolf Harris songbooks that I inherited. As an Australian of a certain age, his influence on my childhood can't be understated, but the childhoods that he destroyed loomed very large.
You shouldn't feel guilty about listening to MJ. He didn't molest anyone.
@@TheSammywammybar MJ is 100% guilty.
I misread Deification at first and thought this video was gonna be about the relationship between pigeons and monuments
I misread it as "The Problem with Pedals"...and as a guitarist I immediately got all defensive and thought "Hey, wtf is your problem with pedals??"...
Would that it were
Both of your misreads would contribute to a beautiful title:
David Bruce Composer: The Problem With Pedals And Defecation 😂
I'd definitely want to know what the hell the video is about...
@@maldivirdragonwitch Ugh shouldn't've bought that brown-note pitchshifter stomp box!
'Statues are for pigeons to shit on.'
I thought this would be a video on deification of “the composer’s intention” and the death of creative liberty in performers, but this was also a fascinating video too!
This genuinely might be one of the most important videos I've seen insofar as the discussion of "art vs artist" exists. I'm genuinely gently ducking my head to you for explaining the issue so well. Not idolizing you, not putting you on that pedestal, but acknowledging the potency of your message.
I work in a major European concert hall and the maestro culture is definitely problematic. I’ve seen managers doing all they can if it spares them saying no to a « maestro », even for insignificant problems.
By the way, very interesting definition of what « inspiration » means, great vid as always !!
You will have spotted Yo Yo Ma playing cello in the waiting room of the clinic after his COVID shot recently; a great example of egalitarian spirit in a musical giant. Really enjoyed this.
My friend who interned at a orchestra hall told me about meeting him. Apparently he was super modest and kind. He spoke to the interns without even introducing himself because that just didn't matter
Thanks for the shout out. I think you mean "Kenneth Woods'" blog post. James Woods is a whole other kettle of fish. Well said.
Thanks Kenneth, and thanks for an always enjoyable blog - and for taking a stand on this. Sorry about the James - corrected!
Mr. Woods, I just read your blog post and thank you for writing it. I started listening to classical music about 25 years ago, and at least 20 years ago there was open discussion on classical music forums about Levine being a pedophile and everybody in the business knowing it. Everybody in management at the Met and BSO and anywhere else who had a hand in hiring or retaining him needs to be fired. And institutions like the NYT and Boston Globe who knew but didn't allow it to be reported (i.e. management or editors who made the decisions, not reporters) also need to be held accountable.
@@DBruce Thank you, David. Really enjoyed your commentary.
@@Don-md6wn Thank you, Don.
Inspiration is a kind of misunderstanding. Damn. That's a good sentence.
the more distant your idols are, the more God-like they become
Maybe but people can idolise abusive partners...
like Billy Idol? cos he lives miles away
@@martifingers true, but this is another story, but in this case the person is so "far" from you that just seeing the person is already an achievement ...
This is not only true, but I will see somewhat highly acclaimed people, no matter their profession, deliberately distance themselves from other people (their fans I guess) in order to achieve this exact kind of "fame". But also they do it so they can't get criticized, they want the image of them being always right and never wrong, and at that, they'll even shutdown or cancel individuals who will challenge and stand up to them, disagree with them or even disprove them in some cases.
Nicely and accurately stated, Mr. Bruce. Decades ago, prior to my acting career, I was a studio musician in Nashville. Some of my friends worked with Elvis. One in particular, Bobby Wood - a VERY successful songwriter ("Talking In Your Sleep" - Crystal Gale "smash"), worked with Elvis. Bottom line, he said Elvis was as down to earth as any person. I myself worked with Johnny Cash - albeit in a television film - but I can say Cash was as easy to get along with and down to earth as anyone else....and I stay in touch with "The Oak Ridge Boys" fairly consistently as former colleagues in publishing....all that being said, I certainly worked with my share of stinkers...even predators like Levine...both men AND women in the film business...now I find myself "coaching" the younger generation on how to tune their "radar" when dealing with "maesto-mania"...Your essay will be a good one to share with them. Finally...I always enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work.....
I almost did a video like this about Wagner - one of my musical heroes whose non-musical ideas I find repulsive.
Wagner wrote fantastic music but his political agenda is still until today controversial.
Fancy seeing you here! Hope you do get around to making it.
@@Martill3 Sure, I still listen to Wagner since the harmonic progressions really inspires you.
If anything, i admire him more for his non-musical ideas.
Oh my, how surprised i am to find you here!
Every music educator should be subscribed to this channel
This makes me think of the story of how David Bowie saw Velvet Underground live for the first time and met Lou Reed, whom he idolized. It was a very impactful and inspiring moment. The things is, he found out afterwards that it was not Lou Reed he met, but a stand-in, because Reed was ill.
After thinking about it he realized that the experience was no less meaningful even if it was in a sense fake.
This experience played a role in his invention of his alter ego, Ziggy Stardust. By pretending to already be a superstar he became way more famous than he was at the time.
I can't remember where I heard this story and I have no idea whether it's true, but at this point, if I found out it isn't, does it really matter? 😀
I can never take seriously “Maestro” as an honorific form of address for even the most esteemed of musicians. I always first think of the character from Seinfeld.
There's no places for rent in Tuscany, it's full!
Thanks. This brings to mind 2 similar things I learned from incredible sources. First, I went to a clinic with Quincy Jones who encouraged everyone to go up and talk to the musicians, classical, jazz, pop after their performance. He said something like "if they won't talk to you, they're not worth listening to." Second was a college forum where the guest speaker was Edward Teller who wanted to continue to talk to the students up in one of the dormitories. We all gathered around and he said "The freedom to talk to anyone, is what has lead to the greatest achievements," (a paraphrase on my behalf). I found it to be true.
RUclips, please tell David this was a very good video.
Separating Art from the Artist can be a useful lense of analysis. But it is just that. One lense among many. It shouldn't be treated as the be all end all of art analysis and in many ways art is inseparable from it's creator.
Hands down one of the best videos I’ve watched in a long while. Exceptionally well thought out and relevant. Thank you David!
I usually prefer the title "bandleader" over "conductor", even when I am conducting precisely because of these associations. And to make a point that even when I lead the orchestra, I am not above the musicians, but a part of the band.
but 'conductor' is ok. it's a job description. Maestro is a different kettle of fish altogether
@@Ana_crusis I agree, and depending on context, I might use the title. There might also be a difference between languages: I'm not really talking about the English word "conductor", but the Swedish equivalent "dirigent".
@@RikardPeterson Oh I see there may be a difference in what the word implies in Swedish; I wouldn't know.
a curious language fact, unrelated:
in England we used to have bus conductors. they worked on the bus selling tickets etc. but they didn't drive.
Whereas In Portugal, where I live, drivers are called 'condutors ( and the people who sell tickets are called Maestro) (no, just made up that last bit 😂
@@Ana_crusis In Italian, maestro means "master", but in Spanish it means "teacher"
I"m guessing the Spanish meaning never reached the orchestra pit.
@@auldthymer They all mean they same as they do in English and Portuguese. It can mean teacher in Italian as well, and we have an M.A. which is a Master of Arts or an M,Sc. and the word schoolmaster etc etc as well as Maestro However, they have very different functions .One is as a legitimate academic title ( i.e. a job as schoolmaster or an academic achievement as in M.Sc.) the other is purely honorific. that's the point.
Interesting video David. I think there is a big difference between coming across someone who is inspiring, and being told that you should be inspired by someone :-) In other words, the old Buddhist saying, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear"
Thanks for making this! Really nice to be reminded that simple problems we so easily buy into... are problems
My favourite video of yours! Can't beat a well written essay and this felt sincerely 'you'. Your videos keep improving!
what an inspiring video. from my own experiences i can tell how important it is to stand up against rudness of people you are working with. you have to tell them that they do wrong - especially when you like them. most of them need these advices, the earlier the better. thanks from the heart for this clip!
The bit about inspiration sometimes being a misunderstanding is interesting- it feels kind of similar to the ‘Death of the Author’ idea in literary criticism where an artist’s intentions are on some level irrelevant to an interpretation, but I like David Bruce’s characterization of it a lot more. I think it feels a lot closer to the personal experience of pulling something useful from an unsupported (perhaps from the perspective of the creator at least) interpretation.
Me too. Of course there can be more in good art (including literature and music) than the artist consciously intended but then art is subjective; what we find there may come from us alone; the art just made us think and inspired us to create our own idea. It seems misleading to claim that something is truly present in that piece of art; it would be more honest to say only that we want to analyze that art in a new way.
David, I really appreciate your insight and I respect your level-headed perspective. This was a message that you felt led to share, and you did it tactfully and and fairly. Bravo.
This was a good one. I appreciate sincere expressions of humanity.
Well articulated. As a sound engineer I’ve worked with a lot of ‘names’.
Many are respectful, collaborative, and want to make a great show. A few revolve around their ego, and as you say that is their fault and their problem to sort. In the end the show usually suffers, and their audience don’t get what they could get.
On the button Mr. Bruce! Boldly spoken! Thanks.! Keep up the good work!
Not in music, but I did/do have to work with a "maestro" in at times. I have experienced that "3rd person" talk first hand and it was dehumanizing. He made the projects he headlined unnecessarily complex so they are difficult to decypher and withholds the knowledge from others to ensure everyone must go back to him and therefore guaranteeing job security. Later on we were lucky to receive someone who I actually would refer to as a maestro through his skill and experience, all the while he's also incredibly humble and helpful. The two collided on a project and the "fake" one got burnt really bad. Turns out he wasn't all that jazz after all, did not have that deep understanding he put forward. All it took was someone with better skills and more humanity to challenge him. It was a very useful story for me personally.
Thank you for this thoughtful and non-preachy vlog. Of course there are conductors who are hard working, inspirational and thoroughly likable musicians.
Omg you should come to Iran and see what Ostad means. This was one of the best videos I’ve seen on youtube music channels. Urgent and relevant. Thank you.
The whole issue with idol-worship (and the inevitable side effects) always remind me of the "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" commandment. I'm not a Christian, but of all the things in the Bible this probably rings most true to me to this day. Both when looking at some of the sexual harassment/abuse of power position cases that have come out recently, as well as when I look at the state of pop-culture (influencers, celebrating mediocrity etc.). If you tell a person they are God-level in their field enough times eventually they may start believing it, and acting like it is true, rather than a compliment.
The Caananite off shoot of people that would become the cult of Yahweh and eventually the Hebrews emerged from a polytheistic society. That bit about no other gods was probably meant as a ranking system. First, me, Yahweh. Then all the other gods.
Of course, nowadays people read it to mean no gods at all. So a broad cultural misunderstanding inspired you, another form of "misunderstanding", to take a more anarchist view of hierarchy.
And none of that is meant to say you're wrong. I just thought the compounding layers of misunderstanding and interpretation was interesting and funny.
@@rainbowkrampus that's a nice theory, but it makes no sense in the context of the rest of scripture and it's doctrine. Not to mention obvious verses like Isaiah 45:5.
@@rainbowkrampus I think you're misrepresenting the text here. You aren't strictly wrong about there being a "ranking" of gods, but you say it as if it is a bad thing that devalues Yahweh. The idea of "gods" or "polytheism" means something very different to westerners than it would have to the Israelites. Their word for "god" simply meant spiritual beings. So they aren't lying when they refer to other gods. But many passages make it clear that those gods deserve none of our loyalty because Yahweh is supreme, which is counter to what polytheism implies today. Hopefully I'm not misreading you.
@@rainbowkrampus That doesn't seem to make much sense to me when you consider the controversy over the nature of Jesus' being his time. If the idea that there was only one true God is only a modern reading of the text, why did people seem so bothered by Jesus' claim to be God? If the testimony of people (both in and out of the Bible) at the time is to be believed it seems like most people seemed to think that there could only be Yahweh. Also doesn't the very existence of the very early church kind of refute the idea this is a modern thing? Seems pretty clear that early Christians (including Jewish Christians) read the verse as there being one God and that any other God was a non-entity, and that certainly you were not allowed to worship or believe in any other god. And I mean that's a 2000 (give or take) year old reading of that verse, so I'm guessing that wasn't included under the umbrella of "nowadays".
@@MabinogiChristianJ You've misinterpreted my "nowadays" to imply that it is exclusively a reading contained within modern interpretations. I said, nowadays simply to refer to present day readings.
The transition from a polytheistic reading of Yahweh to a monotheistic one took a long time. But we're talking about a period of nearly 6 thousand years, so the conversion was still a long time ago.
People current to Jesus were probably no more or less bothered by his claims than any random sampling of people you might poll today.
Apocalyptic cults were all the rage around that time. Some dude called Jesus claiming to be the messiah wouldn't have been particularly novel to anyone. There's a decent chance there were multiple dudes named Yeshua running around claiming to be the messiah at that time. I wouldn't put too much stock in the tales of hype men writing decades to centuries after the time of their cult's founder. Same thing happened with Joseph Smith. He just had the misfortune to start a cult in a time when reading and writing were more wide spread abilities.
Just think, in another 100 years or so people will be having this same discussion about L. Ron Hubbard.
With any luck, instability from global warming will have wiped us off the face of the Earth by then.
The best part is taking the inspiration from who you like and then making your own thing, having your own musical journey, you make some great points here, it's so true, the ones who think they're better end up becoming worse. God bless.
I just found your channel and i love your content. Thanks so much!
Brilliant and thank you. I never let "status" intimidate me and won't tolerate rudeness or a stuck up attitude. There are some like that even in the audiences for classical, and that is unfortunate. I'll encourage anyone from any background to go to concerts.
This is important and really deserves to be talked about. Thank you for bringing attention to it.
I respect tf outta david for making this vid
Brilliant topic David. As my late wife Kaneko Jean Oetjens once said: "It's a long way down from pedestal to Baggage Claim." The trouble I see with Inspiration and Deification as functional, practical models is that (just like the worst attributes of economics), they are dependent upon and reinforce dependency on The Social Power Laws (which follow similar patterns as the analogous Power Laws from physics - often with Logistic Curves intact).
Most human inequities are drawn from this surrender to the easiest "path of least resistance", and I would argue that it is this century's greatest human challenge (aside from existential crises such as Climate Change). We cannot continue to pretend that society is a significant benefit to the individual while the poorest of them (in one of the richest nations in the world) have suffered a 15 year reduction in lifespan. Contrasting this dismal fact with lack of common concern that its poly-Billionaires won't even extend the courtesy of a healthy tithe or other modern equivalent of "Noblesse Oblige", let alone feel compelled to pay their fair share of taxes.
I believe that Social Power, and other factors of influence like Economic Value and notoriety need to be "damped" to prevent the current levels of Gain via Social Amplification from "clipping" the potential of society as a whole. I suggest that a version of a "Hype Compressor" is needed in all areas of human concern; to be designed into every real or abstract structure such that they can return power to those whom need it the most: the common citizen. "Trickle-down" never worked. A stronger house is built from the strongest foundations upward.
Another great video David, never really thought about this before.
My music teacher called me maestro once. Ive never felt more powerfull ngl
Unironically?
Hahahahahaha
@@liamthelitlord5738 Probably as endearment lol
my art teacher called me Picasso once...
This whole time I was thinking of Bugs Bunny torturing the tenor.
Speaking truth to power.
Great work with this. I always admire people that engage with an uncomfortable subject like this beyond the first layer and dig around to find something interesting. Though not to the extent of deifying them, so don't worry about that Maestro.
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this subject. I often wonder about this connection we build up with creative people we admire. It's hard sometimes to distance yourself from them because you hope these are people you could meet and hang out with and think the way you do. But artists are just people, and sometimes they can be very flawed. At the same time, these flaws have an effect on the artist's creative process which can result in great works of art. It's kind of a conundrum.
Andre Previn was a regular customer at the Beverly Hills bookstore where I worked. There were many famous and well known people from many fields and in my experience they were friendly. Andre Previn in particular was friendly, approachable, and kind. Very down to earth in my experience. In other instances so were Peter Maxwell Davies and Richard Rodney Bennett.
Thank you for this. I'm always happy when I see/hear things such as your comment. I don't at all enjoy knowing that someone whose work I've admired is a jerk, and am very glad to learn that someone is not. Carol Burnett comes to mind as someone who is thoroughly unjerky.
My Swedish mother, two aunts, and grandmother went backstage, hoping to meet Jussi Bjoerling when he was in Chicago. ( You could do that circa 1950. ) Not only was he welcoming, he was delighted to be able to speak Swedish with someone again.
I wouldn't necessarily equate calling someone Maestro with worshipping them. But other than that, this video is spot on. Well done Maestro!
Couldn’t agree more. After reading some of these posts, it seems that in certain circles the term may carry different wait. In my experience, the term itself is one of respect that a musician may use out of respect for their conductor... I’ve never known a conductor to demand to be called Maestro. That idea is a bit ludicrous to me. I mean, if my musicians call me Maestro I like it, but I surely don’t request it. Conversely, when my conducting teachers were on the podium I called them Maestro, but one-on-one I used their first name.
I’ve never been one to hero-worship so perhaps this entire situation feels very foreign to me.
Amazing video, I remember when I met Carlos Prieto in a book fair, I honestly thought it was a random old man and I just screamed "Carlos" and he came to say hi to me and we had a nice chat about trying to be a cellist in Mexico.
Elisabeth Gilbert does a TED Talk (I know but it's interesting darn it!) about an old version of the idea of genius, not as a trait, but as a force we are visited by--and how this can separate the artist from the ego for both the person and those surrounding them.
It's not mystical as she's invoking it, but more an acknowledgement of how complex the impact of creative work is, and often how much of it is outside the creator.
There is a psychological side as well, allowing some interesting ways to relate to the creative process.
It very much seems related to what you're mulling over here, so I thought it was worth a mention. The talk is Your Creative Genius, and I think it's out there in article form as well.
You're so spot on, everything you say is true. Especially the part re inspiration. I've worked with many good conductors, both as a boy's choir director and also as a singer, and the putting up on a pedestal of some of them has always bothered me. The story of James Levine's immense pompousness reminds me of a few of them. But the human story of Yo Yo Ma reminds me of a lot of them! Thanks for a great vid.
Favoloso! Grazie Bruce 👏👏👏👏🎶🎶🎶🎶
Excellent video, I am glad you made it, thanks
once again a VERY good video essay. thank you, maestro!
I love that you have that Paxman horn in the background of all your videos!
Interesting topic btw.
Well said. I always think of "maestro" as simply meaning that someone is a master of their craft, which doesn't imply that anyone should idolize them, but does imply that many could learn from them. Benefiting from the presence or work of someone does not entail loyalty to them.
Inspiration can definitely arise from misunderstanding, or accident. Bob Dylan said that he frequently got great ideas from mishearing bits of conversation. Many of us hear melodies in random noises on the street.
I had a friend who sang under Levine & I got the distinct impression that everyone knew perfectly well about "Jimmy's" disgraceful Achilles heel pretty much from the beginning. All the musicians said he was a really great opera conductor & very helpful to singers. I heard him give an extraordinary, very moving short performance of a Schoenberg solo piece on piano at a memorial service for the wonderful pianist Paul Jacobs. Human beings are complex.
One of the most well-known novels, “The Catcher in the Rye”, comes from Holden Caulfield’s misinterpretation of a poem caused by the fact that he thinks his life is meaningless. It’s pretty interesting how misinterpretation can lead to even more stuff.
Gotta say first. Next I'll take the opportunity to thank you for keeping me into music!
Thank you, David. We talk a lot nowadays about sexism, about racism, about an entire litany of specific and targeted abuses, but somehow the underlying common themes of corruption and inhumanity get overlooked. This is not to say that historical and cultural injustices are unimportant-far from it-but at the end of the day it seems to me that while any given prejudice is something someone can ultimately be educated out of, the willingness to act out such prejudice to gratify oneself and bring misery to others is a separate and more deep rooted sin. And whether the trade is in currency, in sex, or in some kind of social status, we should be equally willing to recognise and combat racketeering for what it is.
As to how we should deal with work that came at high cost to others-rather than writing that work out of history, and in the process losing both the art and the lesson, can't we find some path of remembrance and even restitution? I've heard it argued that medical research should be disregarded if it doesn't meet basic ethical standards, but condemning a second cycle of people to death for the sins of our ancestors is hardly an ethical triumph. Better, I think, to find strategies to memorialise the suffering of the past, and to give back the names and the faces of the lost. I can imagine introducing a custom of a dedication and a few seconds of silence for the victims before public performances of works with problematic histories, but perhaps someone can think of something even better.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Let's always look one another in the eye, no matter the authority.
Brave words. Yet in many milieux that can get you banished if not killed outright.
This is a wonderful and insightful discussion of this issue. Personally, I never understood the idolization of Levine, but that's irrelevant. As a contrast to this mindset, there was the great Christopher Hogwood. I once had him to my home for dinner during his stay to conduct "Ariodante." He was gracious to everyone, incredibly informed about everything (truly), and could not have been more at ease.
Your musical version of 368 has been the "5 composers" video series (only that series has actually been realized and followed through :-)
In italian Maestro is just a professional title. Just as someone with a degree is a "doctor", people who graduates in a Conservatory or in an Arts Academy is called "maestro d'arte". I didn't know the connotation the word acquired outside Italy.
I think Toscannini started the tradition, insisting American orchestras call him maestro
Levine was fired in 2018??? Sheesh- I remember in the NINTETIES when I was in... I think way back in high school hearing about Levine and his.... "dalliances." I remember making a joke to my high school music theory/choral teacher that whenever they did "Carmen" at the Met and the children's chorus would come out on stage, Levine would watch as they filed past and tick them off with his finger from the pit: "need him, had him, need 'im, need 'im, had 'im, had 'im..." I remember out of curiosity googling him about 10-15 years ago and being shocked that they'd never arrested or formally accused him of anything. I thought "well... maybe we were wrong and it was all ugly rumor."
Oh well. The Met is as bad as the Catholic Church at the time I suppose.
Hey David, hey guys. I am a 2nd year bachelor student in harpsichord from Lebanon (the first one ever) and my country quickly got really really poor last year. So I would ask: what can I do related to music to earn money? What do you think is a good idea for me as a solo concertist in Vienna? I thought that I could invite tourists to the same concert that I will repeat once a week, because obviously tourists in Austria come for the historical music. Leave a comment please
Good blog. Inspiration: a thought/idea came to me today that I never had before: take inspiration from a recording's mental/emotional impact, in how it unfolds, to how a piece of fiction writing unfolds (i've never written fiction but still...). Leaders/followers syndrome: i suspect a lot of pop psychology perpetuates old aristo nonsense in terms of manners: people only communicating to others through an intermediary; turning their back in silence (like a classical ostracism): I see these things in people's behaviour quite a bit and if, in my own head, I think "how could anyone possibly feel the inclination, or seeming wish or need, to do something like that?", it seems others see it as a way to exercise authority. that's the key word: authority. in the sense meant, it means nothing to me, but it means everything to some, it seems. i'm not sure if it is a question of the way societies are always "organised" or if it is down to the role of actors in life. kipling: "be the same with/to peasant or king"; an actor (richard harris actually I think): "an actor is someone who can make anyone think of them as a king just by the way they act". society is full of actors, seeking to make an impression. so strangely, the less self-conscious one is, the more natural one may appear yet the less impression one might make. bizarre thing, is life.
Thank you so much for your statement. I grew up alongside Levine's recordings and as an artist I really appreciate what he was able to bring together - especially with such great musicians to direct. As a human being though, he seems pretty abhorrent and so when he was fired, and when he passed I remember feeling a great sense of loss and disappointment at how someone I admired for many years was capable of such atrocities.
I'm glad you brought up Wagner too actually - because despite him also being a human trash fire, as have many of his fanatics been throughout history (Alex Ross' new book on "Wagnerism" is both a beautiful and disturbing insight into his music and it's impact), his art is almost singularly extraordinary and constantly exciting.
In equal measure - I also saw a fabulous documentary recently on Hitler's artworks - and again, stunningly beautiful (if an early insight into his overly idealised view of Germanic Locales) but obviously from the human trash fire of all trash fires.
Right now is a really good time to be continuing the conversation of whether people should continue to appreciate art even when it is created by such deeply evil and flawed human beings. I for one have always been one to seperate Art from the Artist - but I find it interesting to figure out to what extent people are willing to appreciate said works...
Wow! it’s so important, edifying and necessary that you veer away from “musical nerdery” at times, since it feels utterly true to you. And your you-ness is what informs everything you do and which gives your channel its own unique and alluring nature - your authenticity, depth and insight AND your mischievous joy and yes the seriousness which you impart.
Such “deviations”, as this, are crucial to us understanding, enjoying and BELIEVING everything you do here.
It dimensionalizes and underlines this so-called “nerdery”.
I tune into your channel as the other channels I just keep coming back to because you ARE inspiring, truth-saying and well.... YOU. I could go on and on, but suffice to say, THANK YOU for being so generous and unflinching as to give us all of you. It’s courageous, brave, and daring.
And that, maestro (oops!) is the kind of humble, humane and ‘spiritually’ enabling characteristics of well... a kind of greatness that you show us is within everybody’s reach. And that, kind person, is the nourishment and food we would be wise to take from any and every source we can on whatever path we may choose in this great conundrum and cauldron of creative endeavour...
And as such this weeks awesome gift is no deviation at all. It’s just more so YOU. And that is generosity defined.
So there! Cop that, mister, and smoke it up your pipe. 😊❤️🙏🏻
In short, brilliant! Thank you.
(And you too have inspired yet another RUclips aspirant with your own kind of unique and inspiring mastery of the form and how you choose to shape and wield and execute it. Beautifully and engagingly.)
And well thinking back to my initial response, before embarking on articulating it... I’m frankly speechless.
Thank you. You said it all.
(And made me question my own approach to my future RUclips voice and vision, and endeavours. And my musical nerdery.)
Cheers mate! You god! 😊💎😊😎🎩
Thank you😊
LOL I was one of the people who called daddy bruce maestro smh.... my bad! and love this video. Fantastic and educational.
I liked getting this insight in your inspiration for RUclips!
Thank you, David. I love this video. I think you hit the mark.
very good video! as someone who is fundamentally a 'Jazz' musician (but gets hired by orchestras too), I've always been very cynical about the hierarchical nature of 'classical' music (some of the members of the orchestra that I've freelanced with for over 20 years still ignore me completely, others make 'jokes' about the electric guitar and yet, of course, a lot of the others are totally cool!). I've found that the best ones eschew all that nonsense (Marc-Andre Hamelin being the last example I can think of, we did "Rhapsody in Blue" together a couple of years back) and they're just nice people who happen to also be incredibly hard working and talented. the ones who put on the airs and graces tend to be the insecure people that have perhaps been promoted beyond their actual abilities and need to act the part instead - I could name names but I'll resist as I don't have $3.5m to fight a lawsuit :-)
One word sums up the influence of these musicians and sets them apart from the rest "inspiration".
You're probably a great composer and incredible musician, but I'm just here because you are one of the best teachers on yt.
as someone who has a habit of idolizing people, I find your observation that you can think you're copying someone whilst making your best and most original work quite comforting :)
I'm not sure he said 'copying' them.
@@Ana_crusis yeah. I only meant that I don't feel like I'm allowed to draw inspiration from others without feeling like I'm just a worse imitation.
It's always been a dream of mine to work with the conductor Mark Austin . That way I could address him as Austin , Maestro .
I can't relate to being inspired by public figures. I don't want to seem like I'm a know-it-all: I don't personally know most people whose works and whose craft I enjoy, I don't know their personal lives or most of their biographies. But all people are flawed and that's something I always keep in my mind watching someone, so that I don't end up being disappointed by the reality not matching some imaginary construct I have clung onto. It's really hard for me to get inspired by, say, Casey's interesting clutter, or his electrical skateboarding through the city. It's so clear that it's all to impress the audience and who knows what his really bad days look like, the days that you can't film and show to millions of people, the days that you share only with your bestie with. I'm developing an online business myself and I'm aware that working to impress the audience is the most effective way to go, so I'm not dissing on Casey or anyone who caters to the "views". Just pointing out that I don't dare to engage in imaginary character constructs based off of any media. Media is just an artform, you can't take it seriously for the most part, nor can you take seriously the characters you see on it.
And when it comes to Levine or anyone in classical music, especially when they are a person in power... I'm from the classical music world myself (violinist here), and I'm acutely aware that these positions aren't given for the merit only. There is so much more effort and action, and usually not of the moral kind, that goes into achieving this kind of popularity in classical music back in the day, when Levine rose to power. It's gotten better since then but still many things begging to be changed. But back in the day, where everything had to be hush-hush and presented in a certain light even when everybody knew the truth, but everybody HAD to play along OR ELSE... I can't look up to these figures, even if I wanted to I couldn't. It's just so unimpressive and weak, in my opinion: to intimidate, abuse and threaten others to give you the respect you haven't earned by honest means means yet... It's just very loser-like.
Well done. I must admit I kind of idolize you, David, and if you do ever start some musical creativity space, I want to be involved!
I know this is a serious subject, but I simply can't get over how much Kenneth Woods looks like Penn Jillette.
Currently teaching my Intro to Western Music class Mozart's Magic Flute and addressing his deep seeded racism and the problem of deification in classical music culture. I think we might just throw out the deification process because most of those we deify don't deserve it.
My experience with the big names I've worked with has often been this: The best were often the most normal in handling.
That's exACTly what inspiration is: a kind of misunderstanding/misreading. Webern, in the Path to the New Music, identifies a few works by Beethoven that were inspirational to him... whether or not Beethoven would been able to see what he meant, well, that's another story. Harold Bloom's books A Map of Misreading and The Anxiety of Influence are fascinating discussions of this phenomenon.
So pleased to hear the little story about yo yo ma!
A couple of guys are watching a group of songbirds singing in front of another bird who sometimes flaps his wings. One of the guys says: “They sound beautiful but what’s the deal with the one who flaps his wings but never sings.” The other guy answers, “No one knows, but the other birds all call him Maestro.”
amazing to see that you've also collaborated with Kinan Azmeh! Great video and spot on.
One of the interesting aspects of deification is that many, maybe most, people seem to need gods. Most cultures have them, after all, which is pretty telling.
It's not too difficult to see how that need could get transferred onto living people, particularly onto people who may seem to have divine, inexplicable gifts. The connection to highly accomplished musicians is facilitated by the mysterious nature of music and how strongly it can affect people. Although it isn't meant literally (well, not usually), it's even common to see some musicians referred to as "gods", e.g., guitar gods Jimi Hendrix, John MacLaughlin, and Richard Thompson. And of course, people don't like to question their gods, because that makes them less god-like. All of this can set up pretty unhealthy situations, I think, but it can also be educational for everyone involved. It might be that we need to understand more about what it is in humans that makes this happen, and the best ways to handle it. A video like this one is helpful in that direction.
A very excellent video that nicely covers idolization. I couldn't agree more. Thanks for this work!
beautifully put, thank you
Thank you. A very balanced and measured comment.
Thanks, David, this is a very important opinion you have shared here and quite sure many musicians also agree with it
Regarding the Messiaen/Stravinsky bit, I think the literary scholar Harold Bloom had a similar concept with regards to poets overcoming their anxiety over the influence of their predecessors through what he referred to as kind of a creative misreading.
Important and seams to be quite personal as well. Thank you!
I follow your video for quite some time and I like to know if you are planning a video about the so called New Classic movement, like Max Richter, Nils Frahm, etc. Thank you and take care