The counter-rotation isn't really an issue, in the loosening direction you've got the force of the hammer blow going into it but tightening it's just the slight recoil force from the spring. It's more likely that the screw will stay put and the handle will turn instead. No need to complicate the mechanism and add small more delicate gears that will wear quicker.
I agree, in these scenarios the screw/bolt is very tight so its not like the counter-rotation is going to tighten it again. I would add that the rotation happening at the end of the stroke is by design, I'm not sure how to explain the physics with the right words but I imagine its similar to an impact drill which only impacts once of twice every rotation, not every few degrees. I guess it needs to build up speed before applying the hit? I could be wrong here, happy to be educated 😉
I was thinking this as well and posted about it before reading this. It would likely only turn the screw clockwise once it got loose and not longer needed to be struck. But still I think there is room for improvement in the design. I'm pretty sure my bigger manual impacts ONLY turn in the direction you set. Like the Attack Koken, Lisle, Irega and Vessel 1/2" etc. I know they employ 2 basic designs, one is a cam mechanism the other has 2 ball bearings running down a cam track.
I watched your review and had to order one. You referenced the 12 degree springing back…thought I’d give it a shot. I was looking at the packaging and although I don’t read Japanese the pictures show inserting the bit, then rotate clockwise and then strike top. I’m assuming by turning the spring is storing some potential energy…anyway… great review.
The looks is definitely cool, with the exposed mechanism. It reminds me of MAC tools Japan, when they used to offer the same concept, in a clear body, but with a MAC tools Japan signature handle shape. The replaceable bit idea is a good idea though. I have my Megadora Impacta's since 2011, when they came out, and have held up pretty good. I must admit that in the last decade, it has rarely taken a hammer blow as cordless impacts have taken over. When operating hand impact drivers, as I strike the body, I'm simultaneously applying twisting torque in the direction its set at. I've applied the same method when using these lighter-duty Impactas. The one important factor when working on cross recess screws is that the tool must be engaged nice and square / perpendicularly, for the screwdriver/bit to engage the recess effectively. The screw that was drilled into that lumber wasn't square.
Thanks for this very detailed review. I suspect the rotation of the bit in the tightening direction as the spring decompresses won’t matter much or at all because of the lack of downward force.
These bits will compete with the Wanidora style by Anex which have teeth that repair/reshape the + & bite to allow extraction. I'm pretty sure my manual auto type hand impact like my Koken Attack 3/8 drive or my Irega 1/2" drive ONLY turn anticlockwise after each strike. They do have a spring but as it returns it's not turning the fastener clockwise. I absolutely love that clear handle on the Vessel but I too have concerns with the mechanism. Although a truly stuck, rusted or galled screw usually just needs to be moved to make a big difference maybe if you release your 'grip' pressure after each strike the ball grip will turn instead of the screw. Love it when some new ball grip designs appear on this channel. It's good to see the strike through ball grips from Vessel are still made in Japan.
Anex has a similar impact driver, the 1903. Paired with the AK22N bit, which resembles a chisel, it can create a groove on a stripped screw when struck. Then, by using the 1903 driver in conjunction with this groove, the screw can be removed. Additionally, the 1903 allows you to choose between left or right rotation. Wera also offers a similar driver, but their set is significantly more expensive. KK900 The door-handle-style grip on Vessel's driver makes me feel like it might be harder to hold firmly when striking it with a hammer. Does it?
the transparent one reminds me on Makita impact screwdrivers Makita B-42450 PZ2, B-42438 PH2, B-42444 PH3, B-424666 PZ3 - they are made in japan. Also do you clean the tips after use? many times i noticed the screws leave ton of residuum metal on the tips. They look demaged or worn out but they and up just be coated in soft metal from the screws. I use wirebrush after + oil.
I'm curious what shape the hex bits are. I know Park Tool make a range of sliding T-handle hex wrenches where one side of the T-handle is designed for extracting rounded bolts. The tip is slightly oversized and twisted in the direction that would cause it to embed itself into the head when loosening.
Compelling demo, especially using the cordless impact. The Vessel's seem a better proposition than the Impacta and GT-Drive, although shame it's not a one way rotation as you suggested.
A shame a standard ratcheting mechanism can't be placed in the middle. Bejng able to rachet by hand normally and just hit it to pop loose overtorqued/rusted/painted (but not stripped) fasteners would make it pretty cool. Also is there anyone who makes a Rotring-esque pencil with that self sharpening tech?
damn japanese only bits (if you dont want a sloppy fit) anyone know of an american/eropean anvil style bit holding handle that can be struck? (doesnt have to be a rotating style)..just a handle.
I got one about a month ago for rusty, painted or stripped hinge screws on metal door frames, works a treat!
yeah i feel like thats more what it would be designed for old painted over stuck screws.
The counter-rotation isn't really an issue, in the loosening direction you've got the force of the hammer blow going into it but tightening it's just the slight recoil force from the spring. It's more likely that the screw will stay put and the handle will turn instead. No need to complicate the mechanism and add small more delicate gears that will wear quicker.
I agree, in these scenarios the screw/bolt is very tight so its not like the counter-rotation is going to tighten it again. I would add that the rotation happening at the end of the stroke is by design, I'm not sure how to explain the physics with the right words but I imagine its similar to an impact drill which only impacts once of twice every rotation, not every few degrees. I guess it needs to build up speed before applying the hit? I could be wrong here, happy to be educated 😉
I was thinking this as well and posted about it before reading this. It would likely only turn the screw clockwise once it got loose and not longer needed to be struck. But still I think there is room for improvement in the design. I'm pretty sure my bigger manual impacts ONLY turn in the direction you set. Like the Attack Koken, Lisle, Irega and Vessel 1/2" etc. I know they employ 2 basic designs, one is a cam mechanism the other has 2 ball bearings running down a cam track.
Perfect timing. On the verge of ordering. Great review as allways
I watched your review and had to order one. You referenced the 12 degree springing back…thought I’d give it a shot. I was looking at the packaging and although I don’t read Japanese the pictures show inserting the bit, then rotate clockwise and then strike top. I’m assuming by turning the spring is storing some potential energy…anyway… great review.
You can find Vessel at Lowe's now atleast ordering online so far
The looks is definitely cool, with the exposed mechanism. It reminds me of MAC tools Japan, when they used to offer the same concept, in a clear body, but with a MAC tools Japan signature handle shape. The replaceable bit idea is a good idea though. I have my Megadora Impacta's since 2011, when they came out, and have held up pretty good. I must admit that in the last decade, it has rarely taken a hammer blow as cordless impacts have taken over.
When operating hand impact drivers, as I strike the body, I'm simultaneously applying twisting torque in the direction its set at. I've applied the same method when using these lighter-duty Impactas.
The one important factor when working on cross recess screws is that the tool must be engaged nice and square / perpendicularly, for the screwdriver/bit to engage the recess effectively. The screw that was drilled into that lumber wasn't square.
Thanks for this very detailed review. I suspect the rotation of the bit in the tightening direction as the spring decompresses won’t matter much or at all because of the lack of downward force.
These bits will compete with the Wanidora style by Anex which have teeth that repair/reshape the + & bite to allow extraction. I'm pretty sure my manual auto type hand impact like my Koken Attack 3/8 drive or my Irega 1/2" drive ONLY turn anticlockwise after each strike. They do have a spring but as it returns it's not turning the fastener clockwise. I absolutely love that clear handle on the Vessel but I too have concerns with the mechanism. Although a truly stuck, rusted or galled screw usually just needs to be moved to make a big difference maybe if you release your 'grip' pressure after each strike the ball grip will turn instead of the screw. Love it when some new ball grip designs appear on this channel. It's good to see the strike through ball grips from Vessel are still made in Japan.
The sound of a screw being reamed out can give anyone with mechanical sympathy nightmares 😂😂
Was looking forward to another video, but I already have the 238HW. I did learn that it can be used with impact driver effectively tho.
Anex has a similar impact driver, the 1903. Paired with the AK22N bit, which resembles a chisel, it can create a groove on a stripped screw when struck. Then, by using the 1903 driver in conjunction with this groove, the screw can be removed.
Additionally, the 1903 allows you to choose between left or right rotation.
Wera also offers a similar driver, but their set is significantly more expensive. KK900
The door-handle-style grip on Vessel's driver makes me feel like it might be harder to hold firmly when striking it with a hammer. Does it?
the transparent one reminds me on Makita impact screwdrivers Makita B-42450 PZ2, B-42438 PH2, B-42444 PH3, B-424666 PZ3 - they are made in japan. Also do you clean the tips after use? many times i noticed the screws leave ton of residuum metal on the tips. They look demaged or worn out but they and up just be coated in soft metal from the screws. I use wirebrush after + oil.
Hey! Look at that. Thank you. I didn't know about these.
These will be great for those painted over door hinges screws. And, yes, I loathe idiots that paint over door hinges.
Why didn't you show removal of a screw?
I'm curious what shape the hex bits are.
I know Park Tool make a range of sliding T-handle hex wrenches where one side of the T-handle is designed for extracting rounded bolts. The tip is slightly oversized and twisted in the direction that would cause it to embed itself into the head when loosening.
Compelling demo, especially using the cordless impact. The Vessel's seem a better proposition than the Impacta and GT-Drive, although shame it's not a one way rotation as you suggested.
Can u use the 238 as a regular screwdriver as well?
Absolutely! But it is a little heavier.
Yes, but don't strike it with non impact bits.
@@beers1892 Why? I am going to test it with regular bits.
Can you provide the model number for that PB Swiss hammer please?
PB 305.6
drpd.cc/mallets/pb-swiss-dead-blow-mallet-hammer-w-fiberglass-handle-pb-305/ Yes it is the 305.6 which is the largest in the 305 series.
A shame a standard ratcheting mechanism can't be placed in the middle. Bejng able to rachet by hand normally and just hit it to pop loose overtorqued/rusted/painted (but not stripped) fasteners would make it pretty cool.
Also is there anyone who makes a Rotring-esque pencil with that self sharpening tech?
damn japanese only bits (if you dont want a sloppy fit) anyone know of an american/eropean anvil style bit holding handle that can be struck? (doesnt have to be a rotating style)..just a handle.
I wouldn't waste my money on this plastic 2 in 1, if you want impact driver, there's a more robust tool for that.