This is really good camera work. Also, great job on getting straight to the point on each point without over explaining. Lighting is good too. Overall, really nice video.
Was beginning to think that my brand new X5 Legion was faulty. Even better than just learning that it is normal I now know why it happens too. Thanks a bunch!
The slide moves for the same reason a bolt shifts in a bolt action rifle. The striker spring in the P320 mechanism is no joke. I am a professional armorer, have been for over 20 years. The P320 mechanism is interesting, and I'm enjoying learning about it. I appreciateiate your effort here. I've been modifying my personal P320 and learning as I go. Your channel has been extremely helpful. A slight correction though. A loaded magazine places pressure on the bottom of the slide with the top round. It's not the only thing, but it's there when the mag is loaded with ammunition.
@@bobbybradley7862 Definitely concerning. The spring for the striker is under full compression with two internal safeties. However, the stock trigger pull is extremely light for the design. For the pistol to actually fire without the trigger pulled would require a failure of the primary internal safety that blocks the strikers forward movement. This would be a unicorn. In my mind, I'm cautiously waiting to see how this plays out. In the meantime, my P320 has a manual safety and I generally carry it with an empty chamber. Mine is a training/ range weapon. I EDC a G45 or Gen 3 G19.
@@bobbybradley7862 Don't blame you. There are plenty of competitive products that don't have the question mark hanging in the air. Unfortunately, the way the industry works (Glock is guilty of this too), even if all the evidence shows a faulty design or something similar, the manufacturer will NEVER admit it. Sig only did the initial voluntary recall for the drop safety problem because they had to.
I hate correcting people, so instead of correction, lets just call it ADDED KNOWLEDGE… the seer and the striker interacting with each other may be the reason the slide moves when dry firing, BUT the drop safety lever moving to disengage the drop safety also adds to this movement. To get rid of the movement, you’re correct, even Sig recommends inserting a mag when dry firing. But it’s not holding the slide in place JUST CUZ it’s inserted, empty mag is pushing up on slide catch because of the spring tension of the follower for last round hold open. And with full mag, or partially full, the rounds in the mag are pushing up on the round stripper on the bottom of the slide…. But thank you for your demo, keep spreading and increasing the knowledge base for everyone. Thanx, and stay safe
You are absolutely correct. The cause of the slide catch is because of the follower tensioning it. Regarding the safety lever…although it’s very well possible it adds movement to some degree, it’s not the main cause. If you take apart the FCU and you remove the lever altogether and test it out, the result is the same in terms of overall movement. I wish I could post a quick video showing that here in the comments but I don’t know how (or if I can really) :-/ Anyway, thank you so much for your insight! I wish more people would share and add clarity, at some point a new owner will run into the video and these comments are the things that help make them comfortable as they learn. Thanks again!
I love the details you put in to your videos with the different angels and the explanation of what you’re looking at and what it’s doing and how it effects and interacts with other components of the system. I had thought all this was magical and mystical, dark science at first. Just like when you get your first hot rod. But on that, the best way was to learn from breakages and to try and do it better next time. Nowadays, you have RUclips. You can find virtually anything you want/need on here. To blab a little, I was at first going to buy a blank FCU (mup?) and a kit to finish it but at that point I was intimidated by it. Now, with owning a P320 & wanting to upgrade it I’ve learned more than I’ll ever need to, I hope… I now wish I could buy a kit but my state doesn’t allow it, Pa… but that’s ok, one FCU should be enough. Now Sig just needs to step and keep up it’s stock. I also have a P365XL. And I’m saving up my pennies for a Sig MCX. We live in a great time for firearm ingenuity and inventiveness. Robinson Armament is another great example… I really wanted a CZ Bren or Galil Ace Gen 2 but I really think the Sig MCX is the way to go??? Anyway, I digress… starting to blab, blah blah blah. Stay safe and be well…
Excellent video, you broke it down so everyone can understand what is happening with the firearm when the trigger is pulled. Question for you...do you carry the P320 with one in the chamber? I think this is the question all your follower want to know. I've passed this series to all my P320 family and they all love the work and time you put in. Keep them coming. Your doing a great service for Sig, I hope they appreciate your efforts.
hey, @A Rogers! I don’t carry in general but I don’t have any reservations if I did. also, I appreciate you sharing my work and helping grow the community through education! Thanks!
Thank you! My dude i was so dam worried about that movement. I knew why it was happening. I took it apart and figured it out but the fact that it was normal o didn't know. Iv ben extremely nervous about carrying it loaded cause of that movement! Thank you for clearing that up for me and I just subbed cause of that!
hey, @Damian Bigelow, Thank you! I’m glad to have you here! It was such a common question it would have been a disservice to not clear it up. Thanks again for watching.
I used to have an XD subcompact and it exhibited no detectable slide movement. The XD’s are very well made and I believe they’re very underrated. Great video, sir!
@@jm_truestory3615 I haven’t used the 320 yet so I can’t give a complete answer but based on build and feel, the XD has the easy win. On the other hand, the 320 is a significantly newer design and the modularity represents a lot of value. Until I’ve used the 320, it’s a toss up.
@@Casey_Schmidt I've sold one gun ever in life, a SA XD9 Subcompact. FTF & FTE like no other, didn't matter what ammo you threw at it. Bought it exclusively for CC, had two gunsmiths poke at it, still jammed despite springs, Ejector, and other parts R&R'ed. Shoulda listened to my buddy, who advised against it. Ended up pawning it for $200.
The reduction in play occurs when you insert an *empty* magazine because the follower applies upward force on the slide release to enable last round hold open. With a dummy round (or a tap rack training aid) in the magazine, there will still be a little vertical play in the slide when dry firing.
even with a dummy round in the chamber I wasn't able to get any play. I tried with an empty mag and a loaded mag with a dummy round in the chamber and got no play
I left the Glock world a few years ago and just recently bought my first Sig, a p365 x macro comp. I seem to shoot this gun much better but for whatever reason shoot it low. Yesterday I purchased a p320 AXG pro and shoot it low as well. I noticed the amount of slide movement during dry firing, wish there was a way to tighten it up other than inserting a magazine. On another note, your videos are beyond excellent, extremely informative and probably one of the best channels I’ve come across for learning something that I’m not familiar with. Thanks for the great work!
It may just be old habits transferring to the Sig line. I find that 6 o’clock position is not best on Sig, POA-POI is how I shoot. (Granted I have aftermarket sights, but not on all of them). The slide movement won’t be an issue when the mag is inserted to the gun so I wouldn’t worry about the barrel dripping, also, since the drop is caused by a force at the rear of the slide, technically (just guessing here), that would raise the barrel at the front and not drop it. I’d say your good to go, just a bit of practice only to get familiarity with its behaviour. I can honesty say, Sig has need the MOST accurate barrel out of the box I’ve shot. Come to think of it, the only reason I even install a Barsto barrel is because I really like the look because I don’t really shoot past 25 yards on average!
Your videos are excellent and I enjoy watching each and every one of them! Keep them coming! Maybe you already have a video that does this, but I would like to see a step by step analysis of what happens in the FCU when you pull the trigger through the release of the striker (i. e. What part moves when to actuate the release of the striker).
Thank you. I think I have something close to what you’re looking for in one of the Sig Mechanics videos called trigger pull Mechanics. Let me know if that’s what you’re looking for.
Thank you, I learned something new and useful I recently bought a Sig M17 and noticed that movement from the front sight to the rear sight the muzzle end of slide would move up and the rear end of slide would move down I was just about to call Sig and ask, glad I found out now
The slide stops moving because of pressure from the slide lock shelf on the follower of the magazine pressing up on the slide, but if the mag is loaded, the shelf does not make contact with the slide lock to push it up. It only goes up when the mag is empty.
Springfield Echelon's COG has substantial slide rail guides which appear to prevent up and down movement of the slide. Contrast with P320 which has gap that allows up and down movement.
Just want to mention for newbies - if you're dry firing and you use a magazine to stabilize the slide, be sure the magazine is empty. Double check and triple check.
Snap caps in the magazine work very well too (and it's always good to use snap caps when dry firing). It protects the gun, even if it's not necessary (it reduces wear). Great explanation. The best I've seen.
@@Iliek They do, esp on some guns, but not all. Have seen it first hand many times... including guns damaged from dry fire. (like the Ruger Mkiii for example which is designed to be able to dry fire, but the pin that stops the firing pin from striking the barrel gets damaged. Can destroy the entire bolt. With snap caps, there is zero damage to the pin. Also, damaging that pin and not knowing it will damage the barrel too, because the pin will no longer stop the firing pin from striking it). edit: my mistake, you said striker fired guns.
Well done sir!!...fine job.... My 320 TDL is a bear to rotate. Its.worn in, well lubed and i have strong fingers.... It is impossible to rotate without a tool,.... But if i remove the mag last, i can almost do it with my fingers.... Empty mag in,.... Rack slide,..... Remove mag,.... Then the TDL will rotate. I believe it to be the forward edge of the takedown safety lever, putting forward pressure on the barrel of the TDL. It seems to jam it, making the lever unable to turn.... When i remove the mag last, the forward edge is not forward enough to show in the hole in the FCU.
What sort of recall spring assembly are you using? They take down lever is directly interacting with the rod and depending on the position of that rod , it might be causing your problem. I’d prefer to use 1911 style rod and spring but that depends on what size P320 you are operating with. You may also want to double check the sear springs, if something is off, it might be preventing the takedown lever from fully retracting the sear. This is probably less common, especially if the trigger feels fine during normal operation. Again, this is unlikely, but a possibility your takedown lever should be relatively easy to turn.
@@SIGMECHANICS I created a workaround. Have 2 320s one is a sub compact, other is a full size TacOps .... The sub came with aftermarket TDL. I swapped the TDLs... Both are stiff now, but both doable with human fingers... Before the sub was easy,.... But the tacops impossible... I have images on the Sig talk forum.
This happens during live fire but to lesser degree.The only 95 percent fix is the rails properly bent to 90deg like every other striker firearm.The fit of the upper and lower on these is critical because the two engagement surfaces arent in the same housing like a hammer fired p226.If there is play,plus limited sear engagement,the gun could fire. There is generous overlap though.Its better that they connect in the same place repeatedly. The stoner 63 was setup like this,and a loose takedown pin caused the rifle to fire,killing a navy seal in vietnam,when he picked it up by the muzzle.
Or a dummy round in the mag so it pushed up on the loading lug of the slide like with a loaded mag when live firing, same result. That's why the true feel and weight of the trigger should be measured with a cold mag inserted. It's a bit perturbing to see that movement at first but there's almost no circumstance when firing that it will happen. Some Glocks do this as well.
mine did it with or without a mag ...I just put a machinist clamp around the sides of my FCU to keep it from spreading then put it in a vice and ever so slightly bent the slide rails on the FCU down just a C-hair and it tightened everything up with no issues
@SIGMECHANICS firstly I am an engineer by trade so it's natural to me to look at something mechanical and figure it out, secondly mine was an M18 but should be the same, there seemed to be a bunch of slop in the rails to begin with from the factory (side to side AND up and down) but I just assumed it was for reliability being a military gun and all. Never really thought much about it, Then I saw a video showing how much a guys red dot moved under dry fire so I looked at mine and it was moving a ton too. So I decided to try to tighten it up and I looked at it realized the FCU tabs are at an awkward angle not flat to match the slide rails like most firearms and saw that if I bent them down just a hair they would go both out and down. When I bent them and I mean maybe a few thousands when I say bend. it took out the side to side AND up and down slop. The only issue I noticed was when I went from a wilson combat polymer grip to a sharps bros the slide was a little tight since the sharps bros aluminum grips are designed to take up the slop I already took out, nothing some 400grit and a lapping plate didn't fix 😅
Your video is superb! Keep them coming! Also, where could I get one the SIG MECHANIC gear logo plastic block that appears in this and your safety conversion one at the ModGuns site? Very cool, and would love to have on my workbench! Can you email me?
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks, I noticed this same thing on my glock (it's less clear) and I was worried, I assumed it was something like that and you cleared up my doubt, 👍👍👍🫡
Hello to all... and to the creator of this content. BUT: The slide lock goes up with a empty magasine... when not a empty magasine is there, the slide lock will still be down and the slide will pull down when the trigger is pulled. Good news is that this is not affecting the precision or the propper functioning of the gun. Another nonsense is to say this is intentional... nope is not (in my opinion) but more of a consequence of, this time intentional, play designed in the moving parts that allow the gun to work in dirty condition. Remember... this is a military gun not a target precision one, yes its accurate... but the purpose here is diferent. Take a CZ 75 as example, is a rock solid gun with very tight interference in the moving parts, it performs excelent in the shooting range. It will work same in the combat conditions? Full of sand or mud? NOPE... it will jam.
I love my p320 my fav handgun........ I do have a question tho...... When cleaning my gun I never (as per the instructions) take the gun apart like that just wondering if the striker and those small components ever need to be cleaned and if there is a chance of corrosion/rust if they aren't every now and again or if it's something that just doesn't need attention
Hi @Jesse. If I remember correctly, the manual instructs you not to go beyond field stripping. That being said, from time to time it is necessary to take it apart further and clean, if not by you then by a professional. My answer to your question would be yes, it should be taken out and wiped down and oiled from time to time. That does not just go for the striker itself, but it’s important to clean the channel where the striker sits. Carbon and other particulates from fired cartridges will travel into the channel over time through the hole that connects the channel into the chamber. If you haven’t already done so, subscribe to the channel. I will be posting a video soon to explain how to properly deep clean the P320 as well as one to learn how to break down the internals in an easy to follow way that I think will help going forward.
Hello there and thank you for your videos, they really helped me out a lot. I noticed that inserting the empty mag almost reduced the slide movement to zero. After installing the armory craft trigger and spring set to reduce the pull weight (aimed for the low pull weight, I am at 3 lbs right now to meet competition rules in my country) , I noticed that the slide movement is also noticable with the mag inserted. I can`t tell if it has been like that before or not or if it happened over time. This might have nothing to do with the upgrade, I just noticed it after upgrading. I can eliminate the slide movement when I push the mag in a bit further and hold it in position. I also tried a brand new mag with the same result. Any suggestions on how to fix this? I am going for accuracy and this just doesn't feel right, when the sights slightly move while firing. I did not try it with a full mag yet, but I have tried it with a dummy round in the chamber and an empty mag. I have a Xfive Legion and the only upgrades are the Armory Craft adj. trigger, sear springs, return and safety spring. Hope you can help.
There are so many variables that I’d have to really have it to see what it should be. If you feel it’s the AC trigger, have you swapped back to original to see if it stops? There should be barely any movement on a full mag, but dummy rounds would be okay too. The trigger (tuned) will pull your trigger bar a bit but it wouldn’t inherently change much if anything at all. The real cause is probably how much tension there is on the striker spring to the sear, the stronger the grip between the two parts the more likely you are too, have the slide move with the trigger pull.
@@SIGMECHANICS thank you for your response👍. I will try swapping it back, but i think you are right. Maybe it it because of the low tension caused by the spings. I will investigate it further and report back with my results.
i have a question that i cant seem to find anywhere. i dont know if its just my gun or not, but when my 320 has a round in it, it is extremely hard to press check or rack it back to remove the round. it fire normally by none of my other guns do this (this is my first sig)
You can try to upgrade from a captures guide rod to a 1911 style, this will reduce the compression ratio of the spring to a more tolerable lever. Alternatively, it may just need to break in a little.
I've got a G19 with a RMR where the dot doesn't move at all when you load the trigger or when you dry fire. My Sig M17 with a Delta Point Pro has a few inches of vertical dot movement at less than 15 yards when you load the trigger and dry fire. You can also see the back of the slide move excessively. I know that some movement is normal, none of these are a custom hand fit 1911. But I've owned 7 Glocks along with Kahr, Steyr and HK striker fired pistols and I've never seen anything like it. You shouldn't see your sight move inches when dry firing at a target across the room from slop in the slide to frame fit. My Sig P365 and P365XL have very little play in the slide. On those you can feel slight movement of the chassis inside the frame when loading the trigger, but it's very minute and doesn't affect anything. The Sig M17 feels like a Hi-Point by comparison.
I’ve been meaning to try a method where you could modify the rails on the P320 in order to make them perfectly fit the slide. Thanks for your insight and for watching!
That was a very long explanation on why you don’t like Sig’s. Are you bored of writing on Glock and Hk discussion boards No manufacturer is perfect Glocks have issues and so does Sig It’s because guns are mass produced, and so you know I’ve spent my hard earned money on both and I happen to like them both, and they both happen to move when dry firing. I still hit every thing I aim at with great accuracy.
strange thing, after I did lots of changes to the gun(include trigger, trigger bar, trigger spring, custom slide etc), there is still some move when I press the trigger, even I have pluged a empty mag.
have to disagree on the hypothesis about the slide release, I have a 320 and regardless of the configuration(full mag, empty mag, no mag) the slide release still has vertical movement meaning the slide release is not pushing against the slide like you postulate(loading a mag does raise the slide release but the is not enough pressure to hold the slide tight), yes putting in a full mag stops the vertical movement of the slide as well as an empty mag however if you load an empty mag and rack the slide you will then get vertical movement again and the root cause is likely from the loose tolerances in addition to the pressure from the machinal disconnect
Realistically, there is some movement no matter what you do since the action is the striker spring gripping the sear ledge. There is not true one way to completely eliminate that movement.
That is the general design of a striker fired pistol. You can tighten this up if you are up to it by adding more material to the rails and lapping it with your slide, I would recommend this is something you would do with a professional.
Thank you for sharing information. Thank you for your time. In a high frequency, high velocity, mechanically reciprocating system, isn’t a degree of x/y/z float desirable and essentially a “type” of air bearing in order to mitigate frictional forces?
Are you speaking about the vertical movement of the sear specifically as it interacts with the striker? If you are then yes. There needs to be a degree of float, and actually there is because when the sear engages the striker leg, the striker is pulled back all the way to the rear cap and even then there is a small gap to allow the striker to slightly move backwards prior to the release.
Although I haven’t specifically and independently tested if it has any impact, I can say that while shooting, with a magazine inserted it is one of the most accurate out of the box experiences I’ve had. I’ve seen many people say the same in regard to the P320.
Good Video, Thanks! I'm not a Glock Fan Boy, but I own a Stock Gen 5 Glock 45 and I don't get any slide movement during dry fire with or without the magazine in. Curious to hear your thoughts?
Glocks dust cover touches the slide by the muzzle were as SIG P320’s do not touch and only ride on the FCU rails. Personally it makes the SIG feel cheap and loose. I’d like to see either the rails milled after bending, a longer front rail, or nylon inserts at the front of the dust cover/grip frames. Most of the grip frames I’ve seen have a slot from the molding process that would be great for the nylon insert. It would be cheap, replaceable as a wear part and level the slide while also removing that extra play. With all that said, it could be SIGs way of having loose tolerances for function in adverse or dirty conditions... just a WAG. Great videos by the way, I don’t understand why SIG hasn’t just come out with a quick video showing the 3D computer model functioning through cycles and from different angles. After all, it was designed on a computer. They could have also milled a slide out of a clear acrylic block and bend a FCU out of clear sheet acrylic, put in all the metal parts and used it in the same way (not for live fire of course). Either would have saved face and strengthened buyers confidence.
Sig does not have a consistent bend on the slide contact points during their manufacturing process. The slide rail tabs are supposed to be 90% on all 4 corners but they are not. Every fire control unit has a slightly different degree of “ bend”. Glocks don’t have this problem .
I have picked up a p365 Xmacro. When I dry fire I have movement in the slide and fcu. The movement is forward and backwards. Not so much up and down. Is this normal? No movement during the take up. The movement is the gap between the wall and the trigger break.
Ok I saw it. It seems like as the sear drops the connection between the sear ledge and the striker hook is forcing the striker to retract slightly as it gets to the top edge of the sear. It doesn’t look like it’s a real problem but, I’ll take a look into this to see if I can get a better idea.
Yes, in the video you can see the movement happening with the FCU and slide. This would have happened naturally when testing it since the setup was as if it was all together.
I just installed the Polymer 80 grip module and for the first time I’m noticing play with the FCU itself while taking up slack in the trigger. I have tried factory Sig and Wilson Combat grip modules and never noticed this. Now I’m wondering if the extra play is a sign of poor QC or design that could lead to issues.
There shouldn’t be play with the FCU, since it is held in place in two locations: 1. At the rear and 2. At the takedown lever. I have seen grips (even sig ones) that no matter how much you push it down it slips up a few millimetres, that seems to be due to the grip being slightly out of spec though. If you have another FCU, maybe try and see if it happens with that one, if not maybe ask P80 for their opinion. I’d be interested in knowing what may cause the FCU to move around.
Could you please do a video that shows the M17 And the differences between the M17 and the P320. Also please show us how the manual safety lever works. Is it a trigger safety or is it a sear or safety
Yes, after the slide moves back the striker leg will catch/engage the sears ledge on its return trip to battery at which point the springs along the body of the sear will tension the striker into a reset position.
So i still have some play on my x-five, even after having a unloaded magazine in the well. Any idea of why this could be? Or do you think this could be a QC issue?
I wouldn’t want to speculate. Have you tried with a dummy round in the mag? Is the only time you see this when the mag is unloaded? It’s hard to determine without it on hand. I would at least contact Sig first to see if they have something to say about it.
Hi @Damien Vera, yes, a minimal side play is okay, those rails are generally not super tight. However if it’s so loose you can tilt the slide and it shifts noticeably, I’d contact Sig about it.
There is a host of issues with the p 320. The main being when it goes off if dropped or hit on a certain angle. Another quality control issue is the slide rails just look at the ones in this video they are barely engaged. This is not a knock on the video I thought it was well thought out and put together
Hey @Dana V. Thanks! I actually also did a few videos that specifically talk about this issue. If you get a chance take a look. I also recently posted one about the exact distance the striker safety lever needs to be engaged to let the gun fire. It’s more about the mechanics behind it but I do touch on the matter. Anyway, thanks for watching!
That would be hard to determine without seeing it, perhaps remove the slide cap and see if you can use a small metal bar to retain the striker and then try to replicate the issue.
"...this is a normal operation for a striker fired pistol" may be true for P320 but not for all striker pistols. My Springfield XD9 slide does not move at all. Rails on the XD9 are substantial and control the slide nicely.
The comment was more for noting that all striker fired pistols will have an amount of acceptable movement (some more than others), just by the nature of the design. It is very possible that with additional supports built-in, you can minimize that to an extremely small amount.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks for excellent work on P320 and all things Sig. So, the mag when inserted stabilizes the slide with some sort of spring tension presumably from the mag release holding the mag eject spring. Or the the mag spring is pushing rounds up. Wherever the tension is coming from, is it enough to control the slide as well as my XD9 or P365 and P226? The answer is likely no. Is the P320 slide control a problem? I've run rounds through a M18 and a X5 Legion. Both had mushy triggers with poorly defined walls and touchy breaks. I could not ride the wall like I can with a P226. Is the slide movement on the sear causing this? Training would solve this but there were other problems. M18 stove piped and the X5 Legion had a cracked frame at the front. There is a YT video of a P2022 in operation and the amount of frame flex is startling and does not inspire confidence. Smith extended the metal frame to the front of the polymer frame in the MP9 M2.0 for this reason.
@@SIGMECHANICS Your excellent take down shows us what is going on in the P320 FCU. Maybe some why speculation can shed some light. P320 FCU is an adaptation of the P250 FCU so it is not a clean sheet design. Adapting a hammer strike FCU to a striker is questionable but one has to wonder what Sig could have done if they had started from scratch. P365 is the answer. P365 features full length rails that are fitted to the slide. P365 does not suffer from drop safety and UD issues. IMO, P365 FCU is superior for being a next gen design. P320 has passed a lot of tests but for me, the average home defender, too many questions linger. If I am going to pick, I will take the design that has less questions every time.
I don’t plan on making any videos for Glock at the moment. However, you never know down the road maybe I’ll do something that can show viewers the difference between them.
Hi @Deuce Deuce, I took it off to let viewers see how the parts interact since the sear spring causes the sear to be tensioned back onto the rear plate. The spring you have to be very careful with is the tiny one that’s located inside the sear housing.
I think all striker fired pistols have the same issue, if the main guide rod spring does not have enough tension, the sear simply pull the slide back and down a little more or less
The pre-upgrade has some help. On the right side there is a small tab that seems to not let the slide flex down with the sear movement. I’ve yet to ask Sig why the tab was part of the “upgrade”, but I hope to find out one day!
Striker fired pistols have so many advantages but this slide jump is not one of them. As far as I know all of them jumps up, but in brand new Smith & Wesson Metal, slide jumps to the right hand side which is very strange. I created a video to show this behavior when dry fire in a $890 gun: ruclips.net/video/Xk8onhm4RPY/видео.html On the bright side, this is not that bad when you have loaded magazine.
People worry that the movement is causing their sights to misalign. However, this doesn’t become an issue once it’s loaded of course. I find the 320 to be EXTREMELY accurate and precise out-of-the-box.
@@SIGMECHANICS Yup! I am one of those people. I run a red dot on the Hellcat Pro and the sights get shifted when I pull the trigger to dry fire. It drives me crazy. That is until I load some dummy rounds into the magazine.
BS. This is excessive and the slide dados are poorly fit to the rails which should be bent to 90deg but they are not. The rails (look close) are at about a 45deg angle and do not fit properly into their respective slide slots. My APX and S&W M&P does not do this. None of my 6 Glocks do this. The slide slots fit to the rails have been this way from day one and really reflects badly on Sig. The statement "This is normal" is simply not true and will mislead owners of this pistol. /ji
I respect your opinion and thank you for your insightful observations. Your comment caused me to take a detailed look at my P320 compact, (generation post recall). The slide/FCU rail interfaces are at the angles that you correctly reference and the machining is perfectly fit and aligned. I agree with you that the play/slop here is excessive. Do you think that this is a “feature” enabling the modularity and interchangeability of the FCU into other slide/grip modules? Just curious/interested in your thoughts and opinions.
@@TasteLikeChicken Great that you got back with me. My answer is no simply because the APX is able to do the same things as the 320 but their rails and rail slots are perfect. A rear view of the Beretta looks just as tight fitting as a 1911. I really have no idea why sig designed the fit this way but I dont beleive they will have long term reliability and will wear much faster than any other pistol and the sloppy fit will always be there. I was going to own several of these guns until I recognized their poor fit and yes, it appears to be designed this way, maybe just a cost cutting move. //ji
I would agree this movement doesnt seem to normal. Since discovering it on my p320 x5 legion I have deliberatly check at least 4 other pistols of the same make and model. All new. Nit all of them have play. Also note in the video that the right tab is not matching the angle of the left tab which holds the slide on. Hmmm
@@bipolarfishingandoutdoors2217 Never Mind and BP Fishing. I agree with you both. Too much slop and it could very well be an attempt to make parts that are easlie swappable especially on the battle field. This would probably be the result of the chassis (serialized) moving between frames and slides. For all I know it may actually hold up to thousands of rounds but since I have the APX I can easily see that Beretta made for perfect fitting, fully serialed chassis gun. True, they did not get the contract and Sig did, just seems weird to me. I am not agun smith, just my opinion. Thanks both of you for this conversation. //ji
If the purpose of this video is to convince me (and others) to buy this Sig product, you've failed miserably. It's just a lot of psycobabble exposing a poor design and craftsmanship.
So, you made a 10 min. video about nothing? All that to prove what, how much you know about a striker fire seer. Yes, an inserted mag puts pressure on the slide/bcg, etc. like EVERY OTHER magazine firearm, the same is true for AR15's.
That was an enjoyable and thorough explanation of the vertical movement of the SIG slide. Do you have one for the lateral movement of the slide which causes gun to rattle when shaken - other than tolerances
I have noticed that there is some rattling due to: The safety lever, the lock lever and the striker (when not engaged). But it’s very little, there is also a little play with the magazine. However, most of the noticeable rattling is from the slide tolerance. There is a method where you can weld additional material to the rails and then lap the slide on the rails to produce a super tight fit. I wouldn’t recommend it unless it’s for a specific purpose but it is an option. I do plan to make a video on this at some point.
@@SIGMECHANICS all my P320s make a little noise- it seems to be configuration specific. X5 with tungsten grip - definite rattle with movement at front and rear of the slide ; AXG Pro - minor rattle at rear ; M17 - very little rattle ; compact and subcompact - little to none. ( very close to M17). If I swap slides and frames- the X5 slide rattles on the AXG frame, but not as bad as it does on its native TXG frame. The same goes with X5 slide on the M17 frame. The AXG pro slide has a little rattle on the TXG frame , but very little on the M17 frame The M17 slide has a little rattle on the TXG frame and little to none on the AXG frame The compact and subcompact slides have no increased rattle on any frame combination I would say a combination of tolerance and weight of the slides and frames as the worst offender had the heaviest slide and frame in its native configuration - of course sig says it won’t affect accuracy
Thank you Sir!
Not only should you become an “armorer” but you should teach it to others.
This was excellent on all levels 👏
Thank you @Steven Parrish, that’s very kind of you to say. I would like to one day do the course just to say “I have it”. Thanks for watching!
This is really good camera work. Also, great job on getting straight to the point on each point without over explaining. Lighting is good too. Overall, really nice video.
only bad guns have this. my m&p 2.0 doesn't have this
There are ways to completely eliminate this. I plan to do a video about it but it does require a more advanced skill set to do it.
Was beginning to think that my brand new X5 Legion was faulty. Even better than just learning that it is normal I now know why it happens too. Thanks a bunch!
That damn movement in the slide has been keeping me up at night lol thanks for the video
Your videos are most informative material on RUclips regarding sig p320. Great work !
The slide moves for the same reason a bolt shifts in a bolt action rifle. The striker spring in the P320 mechanism is no joke. I am a professional armorer, have been for over 20 years. The P320 mechanism is interesting, and I'm enjoying learning about it. I appreciateiate your effort here. I've been modifying my personal P320 and learning as I go. Your channel has been extremely helpful. A slight correction though. A loaded magazine places pressure on the bottom of the slide with the top round. It's not the only thing, but it's there when the mag is loaded with ammunition.
I have two P320's and neither one of them have that kind of play.
@@bobbybradley7862 Definitely concerning. The spring for the striker is under full compression with two internal safeties. However, the stock trigger pull is extremely light for the design. For the pistol to actually fire without the trigger pulled would require a failure of the primary internal safety that blocks the strikers forward movement. This would be a unicorn. In my mind, I'm cautiously waiting to see how this plays out. In the meantime, my P320 has a manual safety and I generally carry it with an empty chamber. Mine is a training/ range weapon. I EDC a G45 or Gen 3 G19.
@@bobbybradley7862 Don't blame you. There are plenty of competitive products that don't have the question mark hanging in the air. Unfortunately, the way the industry works (Glock is guilty of this too), even if all the evidence shows a faulty design or something similar, the manufacturer will NEVER admit it. Sig only did the initial voluntary recall for the drop safety problem because they had to.
I hate correcting people, so instead of correction, lets just call it ADDED KNOWLEDGE… the seer and the striker interacting with each other may be the reason the slide moves when dry firing, BUT the drop safety lever moving to disengage the drop safety also adds to this movement. To get rid of the movement, you’re correct, even Sig recommends inserting a mag when dry firing. But it’s not holding the slide in place JUST CUZ it’s inserted, empty mag is pushing up on slide catch because of the spring tension of the follower for last round hold open. And with full mag, or partially full, the rounds in the mag are pushing up on the round stripper on the bottom of the slide…. But thank you for your demo, keep spreading and increasing the knowledge base for everyone. Thanx, and stay safe
You are absolutely correct. The cause of the slide catch is because of the follower tensioning it.
Regarding the safety lever…although it’s very well possible it adds movement to some degree, it’s not the main cause. If you take apart the FCU and you remove the lever altogether and test it out, the result is the same in terms of overall movement. I wish I could post a quick video showing that here in the comments but I don’t know how (or if I can really) :-/
Anyway, thank you so much for your insight! I wish more people would share and add clarity, at some point a new owner will run into the video and these comments are the things that help make them comfortable as they learn. Thanks again!
I love the details you put in to your videos with the different angels and the explanation of what you’re looking at and what it’s doing and how it effects and interacts with other components of the system. I had thought all this was magical and mystical, dark science at first. Just like when you get your first hot rod. But on that, the best way was to learn from breakages and to try and do it better next time. Nowadays, you have RUclips. You can find virtually anything you want/need on here. To blab a little, I was at first going to buy a blank FCU (mup?) and a kit to finish it but at that point I was intimidated by it. Now, with owning a P320 & wanting to upgrade it I’ve learned more than I’ll ever need to, I hope…
I now wish I could buy a kit but my state doesn’t allow it, Pa… but that’s ok, one FCU should be enough. Now Sig just needs to step and keep up it’s stock. I also have a P365XL. And I’m saving up my pennies for a Sig MCX. We live in a great time for firearm ingenuity and inventiveness. Robinson Armament is another great example… I really wanted a CZ Bren or Galil Ace Gen 2 but I really think the Sig MCX is the way to go??? Anyway, I digress… starting to blab, blah blah blah. Stay safe and be well…
Excellent video, you broke it down so everyone can understand what is happening with the firearm when the trigger is pulled. Question for you...do you carry the P320 with one in the chamber? I think this is the question all your follower want to know. I've passed this series to all my P320 family and they all love the work and time you put in. Keep them coming. Your doing a great service for Sig, I hope they appreciate your efforts.
hey, @A Rogers! I don’t carry in general but I don’t have any reservations if I did.
also, I appreciate you sharing my work and helping grow the community through education! Thanks!
Amazing work! You deserve 300k views! Thank you very much for all your detailed demonstrations and explanations. Outstanding!
Thank you! We’re slowly getting there!
Thank you!
My dude i was so dam worried about that movement.
I knew why it was happening.
I took it apart and figured it out but the fact that it was normal o didn't know.
Iv ben extremely nervous about carrying it loaded cause of that movement!
Thank you for clearing that up for me and I just subbed cause of that!
hey, @Damian Bigelow, Thank you! I’m glad to have you here! It was such a common question it would have been a disservice to not clear it up. Thanks again for watching.
I used to have an XD subcompact and it exhibited no detectable slide movement. The XD’s are very well made and I believe they’re very underrated. Great video, sir!
What do you prefer? Xd or 320?
@@jm_truestory3615 I haven’t used the 320 yet so I can’t give a complete answer but based on build and feel, the XD has the easy win. On the other hand, the 320 is a significantly newer design and the modularity represents a lot of value. Until I’ve used the 320, it’s a toss up.
@@Casey_Schmidt I've sold one gun ever in life, a SA XD9 Subcompact. FTF & FTE like no other, didn't matter what ammo you threw at it. Bought it exclusively for CC, had two gunsmiths poke at it, still jammed despite springs, Ejector, and other parts R&R'ed. Shoulda listened to my buddy, who advised against it. Ended up pawning it for $200.
Thanks for all these videos man, they're making me understand my gun on a whole new level
Your very welcome. Thanks for tuning in and watching!
Thank you for the video. This was a much faster explanation than if I'd have emailed SIG.
Just discovered your channel and I’m hooked !
Extremely well explained and very interesting.
Thank you sir.
Thank you too for watching!
The reduction in play occurs when you insert an *empty* magazine because the follower applies upward force on the slide release to enable last round hold open. With a dummy round (or a tap rack training aid) in the magazine, there will still be a little vertical play in the slide when dry firing.
even with a dummy round in the chamber I wasn't able to get any play. I tried with an empty mag and a loaded mag with a dummy round in the chamber and got no play
@@JohnLee-kr3fb I did on my M17 so 🤷♂
I left the Glock world a few years ago and just recently bought my first Sig, a p365 x macro comp.
I seem to shoot this gun much better but for whatever reason shoot it low.
Yesterday I purchased a p320 AXG pro and shoot it low as well.
I noticed the amount of slide movement during dry firing, wish there was a way to tighten it up other than inserting a magazine.
On another note, your videos are beyond excellent, extremely informative and probably one of the best channels I’ve come across for learning something that I’m not familiar with. Thanks for the great work!
It may just be old habits transferring to the Sig line. I find that 6 o’clock position is not best on Sig, POA-POI is how I shoot. (Granted I have aftermarket sights, but not on all of them).
The slide movement won’t be an issue when the mag is inserted to the gun so I wouldn’t worry about the barrel dripping, also, since the drop is caused by a force at the rear of the slide, technically (just guessing here), that would raise the barrel at the front and not drop it.
I’d say your good to go, just a bit of practice only to get familiarity with its behaviour. I can honesty say, Sig has need the MOST accurate barrel out of the box I’ve shot.
Come to think of it, the only reason I even install a Barsto barrel is because I really like the look because I don’t really shoot past 25 yards on average!
Your videos are excellent and I enjoy watching each and every one of them! Keep them coming! Maybe you already have a video that does this, but I would like to see a step by step analysis of what happens in the FCU when you pull the trigger through the release of the striker (i. e. What part moves when to actuate the release of the striker).
Thank you. I think I have something close to what you’re looking for in one of the Sig Mechanics videos called trigger pull Mechanics. Let me know if that’s what you’re looking for.
Thank you, I learned something new and useful
I recently bought a Sig M17 and noticed that movement from the front sight to the rear sight
the muzzle end of slide would move up and the rear end of slide would move down
I was just about to call Sig and ask, glad I found out now
The slide stops moving because of pressure from the slide lock shelf on the follower of the magazine pressing up on the slide, but if the mag is loaded, the shelf does not make contact with the slide lock to push it up. It only goes up when the mag is empty.
Springfield Echelon's COG has substantial slide rail guides which appear to prevent up and down movement of the slide. Contrast with P320 which has gap that allows up and down movement.
Just want to mention for newbies - if you're dry firing and you use a magazine to stabilize the slide, be sure the magazine is empty. Double check and triple check.
Snap caps in the magazine work very well too (and it's always good to use snap caps when dry firing). It protects the gun, even if it's not necessary (it reduces wear). Great explanation. The best I've seen.
This is not true with striker fired guns. Snap caps make no difference in terms of wear.
@@Iliek They do, esp on some guns, but not all. Have seen it first hand many times... including guns damaged from dry fire. (like the Ruger Mkiii for example which is designed to be able to dry fire, but the pin that stops the firing pin from striking the barrel gets damaged. Can destroy the entire bolt. With snap caps, there is zero damage to the pin. Also, damaging that pin and not knowing it will damage the barrel too, because the pin will no longer stop the firing pin from striking it). edit: my mistake, you said striker fired guns.
Nice video, I own a sig m18 and I allways wondered why it did that. Also I think your camera is amazing.
Well done sir!!...fine job.... My 320 TDL is a bear to rotate. Its.worn in, well lubed and i have strong fingers.... It is impossible to rotate without a tool,.... But if i remove the mag last, i can almost do it with my fingers.... Empty mag in,.... Rack slide,..... Remove mag,.... Then the TDL will rotate. I believe it to be the forward edge of the takedown safety lever, putting forward pressure on the barrel of the TDL. It seems to jam it, making the lever unable to turn.... When i remove the mag last, the forward edge is not forward enough to show in the hole in the FCU.
What sort of recall spring assembly are you using? They take down lever is directly interacting with the rod and depending on the position of that rod , it might be causing your problem. I’d prefer to use 1911 style rod and spring but that depends on what size P320 you are operating with. You may also want to double check the sear springs, if something is off, it might be preventing the takedown lever from fully retracting the sear. This is probably less common, especially if the trigger feels fine during normal operation. Again, this is unlikely, but a possibility your takedown lever should be relatively easy to turn.
@@SIGMECHANICS I created a workaround. Have 2 320s one is a sub compact, other is a full size TacOps .... The sub came with aftermarket TDL. I swapped the TDLs... Both are stiff now, but both doable with human fingers... Before the sub was easy,.... But the tacops impossible... I have images on the Sig talk forum.
You cleared a lot, I was very concerned.
This happens during live fire but to lesser degree.The only 95 percent fix is the rails properly bent to 90deg like every other striker firearm.The fit of the upper and lower on these is critical because the two engagement surfaces arent in the same housing like a hammer fired p226.If there is play,plus limited sear engagement,the gun could fire.
There is generous overlap though.Its better that they connect in the same place repeatedly.
The stoner 63 was setup like this,and a loose takedown pin caused the rifle to fire,killing a navy seal in vietnam,when he picked it up by the muzzle.
It never ceaces to amaze my how so many people can go thru life nit-pickin something ($**t) that is of no real consequence whatsoever !
I also noticed this! Thanks for the interpretation.
Or a dummy round in the mag so it pushed up on the loading lug of the slide like with a loaded mag when live firing, same result. That's why the true feel and weight of the trigger should be measured with a cold mag inserted. It's a bit perturbing to see that movement at first but there's almost no circumstance when firing that it will happen. Some Glocks do this as well.
mine did it with or without a mag ...I just put a machinist clamp around the sides of my FCU to keep it from spreading then put it in a vice and ever so slightly bent the slide rails on the FCU down just a C-hair and it tightened everything up with no issues
Interesting, the slide movement wasn’t affected at all? No binding?
@SIGMECHANICS firstly I am an engineer by trade so it's natural to me to look at something mechanical and figure it out, secondly mine was an M18 but should be the same, there seemed to be a bunch of slop in the rails to begin with from the factory (side to side AND up and down) but I just assumed it was for reliability being a military gun and all. Never really thought much about it, Then I saw a video showing how much a guys red dot moved under dry fire so I looked at mine and it was moving a ton too. So I decided to try to tighten it up and I looked at it realized the FCU tabs are at an awkward angle not flat to match the slide rails like most firearms and saw that if I bent them down just a hair they would go both out and down. When I bent them and I mean maybe a few thousands when I say bend. it took out the side to side AND up and down slop. The only issue I noticed was when I went from a wilson combat polymer grip to a sharps bros the slide was a little tight since the sharps bros aluminum grips are designed to take up the slop I already took out, nothing some 400grit and a lapping plate didn't fix 😅
Yet another fantastic video. 👍🏽 Thank you!
Your video is superb! Keep them coming! Also, where could I get one the SIG MECHANIC gear logo plastic block that appears in this and your safety conversion one at the ModGuns site? Very cool, and would love to have on my workbench! Can you email me?
Just found this channel. Great info. Keep it up!
Hello, your video is very useful, this video applies only to the sigs or is it for all striker-fired ones? Thank you 👍
The general concept will apply to striker fired pistols, but ultimately the internal components will wildly vary by brand.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks, I noticed this same thing on my glock (it's less clear) and I was worried, I assumed it was something like that and you cleared up my doubt, 👍👍👍🫡
Great vid!! Easy to understand
great video, thanks for the content.
Thank you!
Hello to all... and to the creator of this content. BUT: The slide lock goes up with a empty magasine... when not a empty magasine is there, the slide lock will still be down and the slide will pull down when the trigger is pulled.
Good news is that this is not affecting the precision or the propper functioning of the gun.
Another nonsense is to say this is intentional... nope is not (in my opinion) but more of a consequence of, this time intentional, play designed in the moving parts that allow the gun to work in dirty condition.
Remember... this is a military gun not a target precision one, yes its accurate... but the purpose here is diferent. Take a CZ 75 as example, is a rock solid gun with very tight interference in the moving parts, it performs excelent in the shooting range. It will work same in the combat conditions? Full of sand or mud? NOPE... it will jam.
Nice job. Very thorough and informative. Subscribing. 👍
Thank you! I’m always happy when I hear I’ve earned a sub!
Really appreciate your vids.
Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to watch!
I love my p320 my fav handgun........ I do have a question tho...... When cleaning my gun I never (as per the instructions) take the gun apart like that just wondering if the striker and those small components ever need to be cleaned and if there is a chance of corrosion/rust if they aren't every now and again or if it's something that just doesn't need attention
Hi @Jesse. If I remember correctly, the manual instructs you not to go beyond field stripping. That being said, from time to time it is necessary to take it apart further and clean, if not by you then by a professional.
My answer to your question would be yes, it should be taken out and wiped down and oiled from time to time. That does not just go for the striker itself, but it’s important to clean the channel where the striker sits. Carbon and other particulates from fired cartridges will travel into the channel over time through the hole that connects the channel into the chamber.
If you haven’t already done so, subscribe to the channel. I will be posting a video soon to explain how to properly deep clean the P320 as well as one to learn how to break down the internals in an easy to follow way that I think will help going forward.
Great information!
Hello there and thank you for your videos, they really helped me out a lot.
I noticed that inserting the empty mag almost reduced the slide movement to zero. After installing the armory craft trigger and spring set to reduce the pull weight (aimed for the low pull weight, I am at 3 lbs right now to meet competition rules in my country) , I noticed that the slide movement is also noticable with the mag inserted. I can`t tell if it has been like that before or not or if it happened over time. This might have nothing to do with the upgrade, I just noticed it after upgrading.
I can eliminate the slide movement when I push the mag in a bit further and hold it in position. I also tried a brand new mag with the same result. Any suggestions on how to fix this? I am going for accuracy and this just doesn't feel right, when the sights slightly move while firing. I did not try it with a full mag yet, but I have tried it with a dummy round in the chamber and an empty mag.
I have a Xfive Legion and the only upgrades are the Armory Craft adj. trigger, sear springs, return and safety spring. Hope you can help.
There are so many variables that I’d have to really have it to see what it should be. If you feel it’s the AC trigger, have you swapped back to original to see if it stops? There should be barely any movement on a full mag, but dummy rounds would be okay too.
The trigger (tuned) will pull your trigger bar a bit but it wouldn’t inherently change much if anything at all. The real cause is probably how much tension there is on the striker spring to the sear, the stronger the grip between the two parts the more likely you are too, have the slide move with the trigger pull.
@@SIGMECHANICS thank you for your response👍. I will try swapping it back, but i think you are right. Maybe it it because of the low tension caused by the spings. I will investigate it further and report back with my results.
Thank you for making this video
@Mike Marsala, you’re very welcome! Thank you for watching!
Very accurate firearm.
@Sabot, agreed! Out of the box this was one of the most pleasing to use guns with devastating accuracy out of a mass production barrel.
i have a question that i cant seem to find anywhere.
i dont know if its just my gun or not, but when my 320 has a round in it, it is extremely hard to press check or rack it back to remove the round. it fire normally by none of my other guns do this (this is my first sig)
You can try to upgrade from a captures guide rod to a 1911 style, this will reduce the compression ratio of the spring to a more tolerable lever. Alternatively, it may just need to break in a little.
Great work
Excellent work!!!!!
Thank you!
I've got a G19 with a RMR where the dot
doesn't move at all when you load the trigger
or when you dry fire. My Sig M17 with a Delta
Point Pro has a few inches of vertical dot
movement at less than 15 yards when you
load the trigger and dry fire. You can also see
the back of the slide move excessively.
I know that some movement is normal, none
of these are a custom hand fit 1911. But I've
owned 7 Glocks along with Kahr, Steyr and HK
striker fired pistols and I've never seen
anything like it. You shouldn't see your sight
move inches when dry firing at a target across
the room from slop in the slide to frame fit.
My Sig P365 and P365XL have very little play
in the slide. On those you can feel slight
movement of the chassis inside the frame
when loading the trigger, but it's very minute
and doesn't affect anything. The Sig M17 feels
like a Hi-Point by comparison.
I’ve been meaning to try a method where you could modify the rails on the P320 in order to make them perfectly fit the slide.
Thanks for your insight and for watching!
That was a very long explanation on why you don’t like Sig’s. Are you bored of writing on Glock and Hk discussion boards No manufacturer is perfect Glocks have issues and so does Sig It’s because guns are mass produced, and so you know I’ve spent my hard earned money on both and I happen to like them both, and they both happen to move when dry firing. I still hit every thing I aim at with great accuracy.
strange thing, after I did lots of changes to the gun(include trigger, trigger bar, trigger spring, custom slide etc), there is still some move when I press the trigger, even I have pluged a empty mag.
Interesting! Not even a small amount of movement?
have to disagree on the hypothesis about the slide release, I have a 320 and regardless of the configuration(full mag, empty mag, no mag) the slide release still has vertical movement meaning the slide release is not pushing against the slide like you postulate(loading a mag does raise the slide release but the is not enough pressure to hold the slide tight), yes putting in a full mag stops the vertical movement of the slide as well as an empty mag however if you load an empty mag and rack the slide you will then get vertical movement again and the root cause is likely from the loose tolerances in addition to the pressure from the machinal disconnect
Realistically, there is some movement no matter what you do since the action is the striker spring gripping the sear ledge. There is not true one way to completely eliminate that movement.
My original x five slide doesn’t do this while my Legion slide does.
as usual, awesome video, thanks!
Hey @Jeff Vinter! Good to see you back!
Thanks for watching.
But why does the slide and frame rails have that much gap to allow the “bounce”?
That is the general design of a striker fired pistol. You can tighten this up if you are up to it by adding more material to the rails and lapping it with your slide, I would recommend this is something you would do with a professional.
Thank you for sharing information. Thank you for your time. In a high frequency, high velocity, mechanically reciprocating system, isn’t a degree of x/y/z float desirable and essentially a “type” of air bearing in order to mitigate frictional forces?
Are you speaking about the vertical movement of the sear specifically as it interacts with the striker? If you are then yes. There needs to be a degree of float, and actually there is because when the sear engages the striker leg, the striker is pulled back all the way to the rear cap and even then there is a small gap to allow the striker to slightly move backwards prior to the release.
This movement affects the precision of shoot?
Although I haven’t specifically and independently tested if it has any impact, I can say that while shooting, with a magazine inserted it is one of the most accurate out of the box experiences I’ve had. I’ve seen many people say the same in regard to the P320.
Good Video, Thanks! I'm not a Glock Fan Boy, but I own a Stock Gen 5 Glock 45 and I don't get any slide movement during dry fire with or without the magazine in. Curious to hear your thoughts?
Agree none with my 43x or 21 or 19
Glocks dust cover touches the slide by the muzzle were as SIG P320’s do not touch and only ride on the FCU rails. Personally it makes the SIG feel cheap and loose. I’d like to see either the rails milled after bending, a longer front rail, or nylon inserts at the front of the dust cover/grip frames. Most of the grip frames I’ve seen have a slot from the molding process that would be great for the nylon insert. It would be cheap, replaceable as a wear part and level the slide while also removing that extra play. With all that said, it could be SIGs way of having loose tolerances for function in adverse or dirty conditions... just a WAG.
Great videos by the way, I don’t understand why SIG hasn’t just come out with a quick video showing the 3D computer model functioning through cycles and from different angles. After all, it was designed on a computer. They could have also milled a slide out of a clear acrylic block and bend a FCU out of clear sheet acrylic, put in all the metal parts and used it in the same way (not for live fire of course). Either would have saved face and strengthened buyers confidence.
Sig does not have a consistent bend on the slide contact points during their manufacturing process. The slide rail tabs are supposed to be 90% on all 4 corners but they are not. Every fire control unit has a slightly different degree of “ bend”. Glocks don’t have this problem .
@@WARPSPD because theyre not modular
You’re not a Glock fan boy hahaha! But you had to take the time to write my Glock doesn’t do this.
I have picked up a p365 Xmacro. When I dry fire I have movement in the slide and fcu. The movement is forward and backwards. Not so much up and down. Is this normal? No movement during the take up. The movement is the gap between the wall and the trigger break.
I’ve never seen that, can you send me a quick video?
@@SIGMECHANICS ruclips.net/user/shortsUA3VTMJ4fn0?feature=shared
ruclips.net/user/shortsUA3VTMJ4fn0?feature=shared
@@SIGMECHANICS I have the video posted on my channel. I tried commenting the link but it apparently isn’t letting me
Ok I saw it. It seems like as the sear drops the connection between the sear ledge and the striker hook is forcing the striker to retract slightly as it gets to the top edge of the sear. It doesn’t look like it’s a real problem but, I’ll take a look into this to see if I can get a better idea.
Was this movement accounted for on your trigger/safety study?
Yes, in the video you can see the movement happening with the FCU and slide. This would have happened naturally when testing it since the setup was as if it was all together.
I just installed the Polymer 80 grip module and for the first time I’m noticing play with the FCU itself while taking up slack in the trigger. I have tried factory Sig and Wilson Combat grip modules and never noticed this. Now I’m wondering if the extra play is a sign of poor QC or design that could lead to issues.
There shouldn’t be play with the FCU, since it is held in place in two locations: 1. At the rear and 2. At the takedown lever. I have seen grips (even sig ones) that no matter how much you push it down it slips up a few millimetres, that seems to be due to the grip being slightly out of spec though.
If you have another FCU, maybe try and see if it happens with that one, if not maybe ask P80 for their opinion. I’d be interested in knowing what may cause the FCU to move around.
Great explanation! 👍
Could you please do a video that shows the M17 And the differences between the M17 and the P320. Also please show us how the manual safety lever works. Is it a trigger safety or is it a sear or safety
Sounds good, I have quite a bit of other videos I want to do. I'll add this to the list! I would like to compare M17/18 and 320 all in one go too.
@@SIGMECHANICS So that I make sure I understand the Sig P320, It is a pre-cocked striker?
Yes, after the slide moves back the striker leg will catch/engage the sears ledge on its return trip to battery at which point the springs along the body of the sear will tension the striker into a reset position.
@@SIGMECHANICS So would it be wrong to say it is single action gun, cocked and not Locked as a 1911 would be in condition 1
Nope, you wouldn’t be wrong. For all Intents and purposes, it’s SAO.
So i still have some play on my x-five, even after having a unloaded magazine in the well. Any idea of why this could be? Or do you think this could be a QC issue?
I wouldn’t want to speculate. Have you tried with a dummy round in the mag? Is the only time you see this when the mag is unloaded? It’s hard to determine without it on hand. I would at least contact Sig first to see if they have something to say about it.
@@SIGMECHANICS Legitimately just tried that. No visible movement. Looks like it needed just that extra tension. Thanks!
Here is the answer to my previous question.
Mine has horizontal play, is that also normal ?
Hi @Damien Vera, yes, a minimal side play is okay, those rails are generally not super tight. However if it’s so loose you can tilt the slide and it shifts noticeably, I’d contact Sig about it.
There is a host of issues with the p 320. The main being when it goes off if dropped or hit on a certain angle. Another quality control issue is the slide rails just look at the ones in this video they are barely engaged. This is not a knock on the video I thought it was well thought out and put together
Hey @Dana V. Thanks! I actually also did a few videos that specifically talk about this issue. If you get a chance take a look. I also recently posted one about the exact distance the striker safety lever needs to be engaged to let the gun fire. It’s more about the mechanics behind it but I do touch on the matter. Anyway, thanks for watching!
Thank you
Why do some fcus have more play than others?
I actually went and checked my 4 dont move at all ' x5 p320/ legion p320/ Rx p320/ p320 X compact. odd that some do that .
Good to know!
My brand new m18 does this even when I dry fire it moves is that normal
Yes it is. The nature of the gun makes it that way. Except with a loaded mag it much MUCH less noticeable.
@@SIGMECHANICS how about the recoil spring every time I slide it it moves out of place when I disassemble it it's slightly moved
I was going to say all striker fire pistols do this. Glocks seem more noticeable than others.
My slide moves forward when the trigger is pulled, as if instead of locking on the takedown lever, it's hanging up on the striker.
That would be hard to determine without seeing it, perhaps remove the slide cap and see if you can use a small metal bar to retain the striker and then try to replicate the issue.
@@SIGMECHANICS Great idea! I'll return with an update.
@SIGMECHANICS Without the slide cap, it doesn't do it.
"...this is a normal operation for a striker fired pistol" may be true for P320 but not for all striker pistols. My Springfield XD9 slide does not move at all. Rails on the XD9 are substantial and control the slide nicely.
The comment was more for noting that all striker fired pistols will have an amount of acceptable movement (some more than others), just by the nature of the design. It is very possible that with additional supports built-in, you can minimize that to an extremely small amount.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks for excellent work on P320 and all things Sig. So, the mag when inserted stabilizes the slide with some sort of spring tension presumably from the mag release holding the mag eject spring. Or the the mag spring is pushing rounds up. Wherever the tension is coming from, is it enough to control the slide as well as my XD9 or P365 and P226? The answer is likely no. Is the P320 slide control a problem? I've run rounds through a M18 and a X5 Legion. Both had mushy triggers with poorly defined walls and touchy breaks. I could not ride the wall like I can with a P226. Is the slide movement on the sear causing this? Training would solve this but there were other problems. M18 stove piped and the X5 Legion had a cracked frame at the front. There is a YT video of a P2022 in operation and the amount of frame flex is startling and does not inspire confidence. Smith extended the metal frame to the front of the polymer frame in the MP9 M2.0 for this reason.
@@SIGMECHANICS Your excellent take down shows us what is going on in the P320 FCU. Maybe some why speculation can shed some light. P320 FCU is an adaptation of the P250 FCU so it is not a clean sheet design. Adapting a hammer strike FCU to a striker is questionable but one has to wonder what Sig could have done if they had started from scratch. P365 is the answer. P365 features full length rails that are fitted to the slide. P365 does not suffer from drop safety and UD issues. IMO, P365 FCU is superior for being a next gen design. P320 has passed a lot of tests but for me, the average home defender, too many questions linger. If I am going to pick, I will take the design that has less questions every time.
Glock macnism explain sir
I don’t plan on making any videos for Glock at the moment. However, you never know down the road maybe I’ll do something that can show viewers the difference between them.
My P320's slide doesn't move during dry fire, but my P365X definitely does.
Most people have the reverse, the 365 doesn’t move (as much) and the 320 moves quite a bit.
@@SIGMECHANICS I have a 365X with 1,000 rounds through it and thousands of dry fire trigger pulls with dummy rounds and no slide movement at all.
is this really an issue? lmao. my Glocks has slight bulging on the side of the polymer grip when pulling the trigger
For some people it bothers them. However, it won’t actually affect anything. It’s more differences of opinion. Some care, others don’t.
Just noticed your spring fell off your striker (or you took it off). Just wanted to mention (as I've lost small parts without noticing before).
Hi @Deuce Deuce, I took it off to let viewers see how the parts interact since the sear spring causes the sear to be tensioned back onto the rear plate. The spring you have to be very careful with is the tiny one that’s located inside the sear housing.
@@SIGMECHANICS Good to know. Thanks. Appreciate the videos. Hope to see more.
I think all striker fired pistols have the same issue, if the main guide rod spring does not have enough tension, the sear simply pull the slide back and down a little more or less
I have one and mine doesn't do this i also carry this everyday never had and issue
hi @Thinredline104, is yours a pre upgrade by any chance? I found those have a tab formed into the frame that helps mitigate movement.
This doesn’t happen to the p320s that aren’t drop safe still
The pre-upgrade has some help. On the right side there is a small tab that seems to not let the slide flex down with the sear movement. I’ve yet to ask Sig why the tab was part of the “upgrade”, but I hope to find out one day!
I have a P320 full size and compact... neither one of them has that kind of play you're showing.
WHY in the heck does the Stricker have to be soooooo chamfered everywhere ?!
Striker fired pistols have so many advantages but this slide jump is not one of them. As far as I know all of them jumps up, but in brand new Smith & Wesson Metal, slide jumps to the right hand side which is very strange. I created a video to show this behavior when dry fire in a $890 gun: ruclips.net/video/Xk8onhm4RPY/видео.html On the bright side, this is not that bad when you have loaded magazine.
So…all the Glock fanboys never noticed this about their beloved G17/19/26?
Not just a Sig thing
Honestly. Who’s noticing such microscopic movements
People worry that the movement is causing their sights to misalign. However, this doesn’t become an issue once it’s loaded of course. I find the 320 to be EXTREMELY accurate and precise out-of-the-box.
@@SIGMECHANICS Yup! I am one of those people. I run a red dot on the Hellcat Pro and the sights get shifted when I pull the trigger to dry fire. It drives me crazy. That is until I load some dummy rounds into the magazine.
BS. This is excessive and the slide dados are poorly fit to the rails which should be bent to 90deg but they are not. The rails (look close) are at about a 45deg angle and do not fit properly into their respective slide slots. My APX and S&W M&P does not do this. None of my 6 Glocks do this. The slide slots fit to the rails have been this way from day one and really reflects badly on Sig. The statement "This is normal" is simply not true and will mislead owners of this pistol. /ji
I respect your opinion and thank you for your insightful observations. Your comment caused me to take a detailed look at my P320 compact, (generation post recall). The slide/FCU rail interfaces are at the angles that you correctly reference and the machining is perfectly fit and aligned. I agree with you that the play/slop here is excessive. Do you think that this is a “feature” enabling the modularity and interchangeability of the FCU into other slide/grip modules? Just curious/interested in your thoughts and opinions.
@@TasteLikeChicken Great that you got back with me. My answer is no simply because the APX is able to do the same things as the 320 but their rails and rail slots are perfect. A rear view of the Beretta looks just as tight fitting as a 1911. I really have no idea why sig designed the fit this way but I dont beleive they will have long term
reliability and will wear much faster than any other pistol and the sloppy fit will always be there. I was going to own several of these guns until I recognized their poor fit and yes, it appears to be designed this way, maybe just a cost cutting move. //ji
I would agree this movement doesnt seem to normal. Since discovering it on my p320 x5 legion I have deliberatly check at least 4 other pistols of the same make and model. All new. Nit all of them have play. Also note in the video that the right tab is not matching the angle of the left tab which holds the slide on. Hmmm
@@bipolarfishingandoutdoors2217 Never Mind and BP Fishing. I agree with you both. Too much slop and it could very well be an attempt to make parts that are easlie swappable especially on the battle field. This would probably be the result of the chassis (serialized) moving between frames and slides. For all I know it may actually hold up to thousands of rounds but since I have the APX I can easily see that Beretta made for perfect fitting, fully serialed chassis gun.
True, they did not get the contract and Sig did, just seems weird to me. I am not agun smith, just my opinion. Thanks both of you for this conversation. //ji
Too much bs associated with the 320. Wouldnt take a free one.
It doesn’t do it with both loaded, and unloaded magazines in it. I tested mine with snap caps
And, my Glock 43x does this too
If the purpose of this video is to convince me (and others) to buy this Sig product, you've failed miserably. It's just a lot of psycobabble exposing a poor design and craftsmanship.
So, you made a 10 min. video about nothing?
All that to prove what, how much you know about a striker fire seer.
Yes, an inserted mag puts pressure on the slide/bcg, etc. like EVERY OTHER magazine firearm, the same is true for AR15's.
Exactly! I'm not sure what the big deal is that the slide moves when dry firing? I mean, why is that even a problem or concern for people?
That was an enjoyable and thorough explanation of the vertical movement of the SIG slide. Do you have one for the lateral movement of the slide which causes gun to rattle when shaken - other than tolerances
I have noticed that there is some rattling due to: The safety lever, the lock lever and the striker (when not engaged). But it’s very little, there is also a little play with the magazine. However, most of the noticeable rattling is from the slide tolerance. There is a method where you can weld additional material to the rails and then lap the slide on the rails to produce a super tight fit. I wouldn’t recommend it unless it’s for a specific purpose but it is an option. I do plan to make a video on this at some point.
@@SIGMECHANICS all my P320s make a little noise- it seems to be configuration specific. X5 with tungsten grip - definite rattle with movement at front and rear of the slide ; AXG Pro - minor rattle at rear ; M17 - very little rattle ; compact and subcompact - little to none. ( very close to M17).
If I swap slides and frames- the X5 slide rattles on the AXG frame, but not as bad as it does on its native TXG frame. The same goes with X5 slide on the M17 frame. The AXG pro slide has a little rattle on the TXG frame , but very little on the M17 frame
The M17 slide has a little rattle on the TXG frame and little to none on the AXG frame
The compact and subcompact slides have no increased rattle on any frame combination
I would say a combination of tolerance and weight of the slides and frames as the worst offender had the heaviest slide and frame in its native configuration - of course sig says it won’t affect accuracy