Thank you to everyone who supports these projects on Patreon. I wouldn't be able to devote so much time and so many resources to one video otherwise. I'm trying to make the best work I can and the donations really do make it possible. If you'd like to chip in and support me, check out www.patreon.com/rchapman. Video notes below. I've seen a number of commenters who believe that I crucially left out some details about the cultural and ethnic ties between Taiwan and mainland China. Mainly two details: 1) clarifying that Taiwanese isn't an entirely original language, but instead a dialect from Fujian province (they do call it Taiwanese in Taiwan, so I stuck with their language when telling their side of the story), and 2) stressing the high proportion of ethic Chinese people living in Taiwan. That's fine, if you want to call attention to those facts, but I didn't consider them essential for this video because they don't fundamentally change the arguments from either side. Taiwan's independence argument doesn't weaken because of ethnic and cultural ties to China. China's claim to Taiwan doesn't strengthen either. If you think those details do give China a legitimate claim to Taiwan (against the will of the overwhelming majority of people living there) then you're arriving at something like 'we own you through your blood,' since the shared ethnicity seems to be the pillar of that claim. That's not something I saw my Chinese sources claiming, and that's also obviously something the Taiwanese side didn't say either. Perhaps I should have presented them here anyway since they seem important to Chinese audiences, but again they don't fundamentally change the logic from either side. Many of those who stressed the ethnic ties between Taiwan and China went on to say people in Taiwan are rallying around a Taiwanese identity because they're being propagandized by their government in the education system. I think that's a fair point to get into, but if you want to cover the subject in a balanced way, you'd also have to look at how China's government propagandizes and controls their citizens too. The reality is Chinese people are among the most heavily propagandized and controlled in the world. Taiwan is one of the places with the freest speech (and freest access to information) in the world, and China is one of the places with the most controlled speech and most controlled access to information in the world. Look at any free speech index and it will tell you that. The Chinese government employs massive boroughs of people for the sole purpose of propagandizing and controlling its citizens (look up the 'Golden Shield' for example). So again, I could have covered that side of the subject, but it seems like virtually everyone making those arguments were sympathetic to China's side, and I don't think they'd be happy seeing balanced coverage of that. On that note, this video only covered China's official position on Taiwan. Since there isn't free speech in China, this is pretty much how everyone covers it. In places like Taiwan, it's easier to make distinctions between public thought and official thought. You can poll people or just point to public backlashes against official positions. In China, widespread expression of dissent from official thought (like the Sunflower Movement in Taiwan) is rarely allowed, so we're mostly left with pointing at official thought. That all being said, I don't think there's reason to believe that the public in China doesn't more or less support or believe the official position laid out here. Last note - many think this video tried to create the impression that Taiwan is mostly made up of aborigines, and I'm not sure who would watch this video and actually think that. As I kept talking about Taiwan being colonized by various powers, and even the KMT moving there as an entire party, I assumed people understood (and knew, even by common sense) that the aborigines eventually became a small minority there. I didn't think that was something that needed to be explicitly said, and ultimately I try to trust the intelligence of the viewer and avoid stating the obvious if I can. - Ryan
@ Ryan Chapman At 11:17 you say that China's show of force wouldn't be necessary if she had a legitimate claim on Taiwan. I don't think that's necessarily true. There are plenty of examples where civil unrest is quietened down with shows of force, but without violence. That was a slightly, if unintentionally, biased statement. I'm still not 100% sure which way I think is correct. Separate, or unified. A very interesting report, though. Good work. Thank you.
I'm from Taiwan, which is actually a colony of the United States. The media and education here are controlled and make us hate our fellow Chinese. Government officials are US puppets and have to report to US every election. We will return to China and be an equal Chinese. We are not pawns of the United States against our motherland, and we will not be sacrificed for American interests.
Much of your analysis is wrong. Actually democratization was forced by the United States. This is why the US advocates democracy in small countries all over the world, because it can prop up its own puppets. Since the democratization of Taiwan, every president has to report to the United States. He represents the interests of the United States, not Taiwan. Why are you afraid to talk about American influence in your video? Isn't it freedom of speech?
fun fact: Mainland and Taiwan are still in war status, there is no any Armistice agreement signed by both parties since the civil war began. Seems few people aware this.
Yep and therefore, any fighting is fair game. Also another thing people do not mention is that the so-called "Taiwanese air space" has a large portion that goes directly into the mainland Chinese airspace and overlaps. So all these reports about China going into Taiwans airspace to intimidate them is mostly China staying within their own designated airspace
@@MsKateC2K China violated Taiwan's sovereignty in hunting down a Chinese rebel regime - the KMT. The same act of aggression as the US hunting down Al Qaeda by invading Afghanistan.
The “aboriginals” consist only 3% of the population of the island, what we call Taiwanese are indeed ethnic Chinese migrated from the mainland by various of waves
Yes.But there's another thing to point out. During the Qin dynasty, only men were allowed to come to Taiwan. Many of them therefore choose to marry with aboriginal wife. Technically the majority or han people in taiwan are the mix of both.
@@willylin8046 This point was a myth created for political reason. According to history records, the policy forbidding women crossing the strait was only performed intermittently and shortly. During such period, men came to Taiwan to earn a fortune and went back home to marry a wife. The Qing government had very strict law to forbid intermarriage of Han Chinese and aborigines. Any such marriage found would be fined and divorced. The reason was to protect the properties owned by aborigines, otherwise, all land properties would be owned by the stronger Chinese through marriage.
In fact, the genes of the Taiwanese Han people are closer to the Hokkian\ Hakka people in Fujian and Guangdong, and their Austronesian Indigenous people ancestry has been exaggerated. The Taiwanese Han people have obvious differences in appearance from the indigenous people but still similar to the Hokkian. This situation is similar to how Eurasians carrying 2-4% of Neanderthal genes are widely described as descendants of Neanderthals.This is due to political considerations.@@willylin8046
@@timyangcc You are right about forbidding Han marrying aboriginal women. Qin government wanted to protect aboriginal people properties. But in reality, Han male eventually married to local females, and after generations, there are all mixed. We call our self “ 平埔族群”, the majority residents in Taiwan now
This narrator did not mention that around 1895-1900 Japanese military in Taiwan killed about 300 thousand Taiwanese when the islanders resisted the occupation by Japan. At that time, there were about 3 million population. That means about 1 in 10 population was killed. During WW-II US airplanes bombarded Taiwan and killed about 5 thousands civilians.
The most disaster happened in Taiwan at that time is the Japanese invasion and occupation They killed millions of people in Taiwan brutally when they resisted. Numerous head-chops and rapes were committed by the Japanese at that time.
As tragic is this was, it wasn't that important for the story. He mentioned that the Japanese attempted to conquer the native people, and they fought back, giving the Japanese a bloody nose. Anyone who paid attention would have known the Japanese weren't just a happy friendly force for good and business and some war/conflict went down. You people do not contradict the video's messages, simply adding to it. I dont think the majority of the audience here has a favourable view of Imperial Japan and can fill in the blanks anyway. And the narrator specifically framed everything before the 90's as colonization and domination (including Japan). I am sure to many indigenous Taiwanese this situation is still not ideal but we dont need to pretend that because we know something that wasnt mentioned in the video, that the video is stupid unless you want a video that goes all the way back to the Zhou covering every piece of Chinese history trivia or some shit. 下次你们应该慢慢看😂
Overall, a great unbiased explanation of the Taiwan problem. I have just one thing to point out: majority of Taiwan people today came from China mainland, not those natives.
And another fact that Taiwan's economic achievements cannot have been achieved without the huge wealth taken from the mainland during KMT retreat to Taiwan
@@johkupohkuxd1697 Check the documents. Huge amount of gold, treasures and highly educated manpower were brought from Mia land China to Taiwan by Jiang Jie Shi. By the way, the US also provided lots of resources for support after 1949 because US thought GMT was a leverage to restrain the communist China.
@@vinamiu7257 Are you somehow suggesting that the USA didn't provide support to the ROC before 1949? You know when the CCP was hiding out in Yan'an and the KMT and the USA were fighting to liberate Asia sovereign states from the empire of Japan Wow, that phrase: ... highly educated manpower were brought from mainland China to Taiwan by Jiang Jieshi" as if those citizens ought not to have any agency nor choice in where they were allowed to escape to.
It should be mentioned that under the current Constitution of the Republic of China (ROC), both the mainland and Taiwan are part of ROC. Before 1971, ROC represented the whole China in UN, while PRC took over thereafter.
@@sharwama992 uhm, my ancestors left during the Ming dynasty, that is, before even the Qing dynasty. so no, we don't really consider ourselves anymore chinese than americans think of themselves as british really
As a Taiwanese thank you for the time and effort to make this video. Few Westerners can understand the complex relationship between Taiwan and China in such a detailed and correct way. If foreigners ask about this, I will recommend them to watch this video.😀
@@reee1397 lol obviously I'm not that guy. And I've lived outside China since I was a child, but I'm just saying. I'd have to side with the mainland position on this. Tbf, the worst that would happen in most people's lives after the CCP takes control would be being blocked off from the rest of the Internet without vpn. I live in a "rich" Western "democracy" where millions have to rely on charity food banks so they don't go hungry and go into debt to heat their house, so even "moderate common prosperity" would sound like paradise to a lot of people.
You failed to mention that Republic of China (aka Taiwan) also officially claim Mainland China and Taiwan are all part of them. (ROC also claim Mongolia and other small territory, you could find some videos on RUclips.)
The Constitution of the Republic of China claims the entire China as its territory. But that constitution was ratified on 1947, which was long time ago. Today, nearly no one in Taiwan would claim Mainland China and Mongolia because it's not practical. The Constitution should be amended, but it will piss China off if Taiwanese dare to do so, which gives China the excuse to invade immediately.
One correction, he mentioned several times about native people, foreign colonialists. Sounds majority people are aboriginal and were fighting foreign colonialists all the time. But actually there are only 2.3% indigenous people (see wiki), more than 95% people are Han who come from mainland China long times ago, far far ago than Dutch. And there’s no local new language, it’s a direct of Fujian local language since Fujian province governs Taiwan area previously. Also, need to mention that the constitution of Republic of China mentions the nation includes mainland and Taiwan, and Taiwan is inside Fujian Province, which hasn’t been officially changed yet, so it is still official valid in Taiwan.
@@user-zcm379RenJiTang He is right, Taiwan became a province in 1887 but was abolished in 1895. Then Taiwan was colonized by Japan until the end of WW2.
Large scale Fujianese and other Chinese immigration to Taiwan dates only to the Dutch period (as labor) and mostly to the activities of the Sino-Japanese pirate, Koxinga. Koxinga's brief dynasty only ruled a tiny area in SW Taiwan, less than a fifth the size of the island. Maybe read something other than CCP propaganda to learn history.
This video is good for explaining the documented history of the conflict between China and Taiwan, but a lot of underlying geopolitical factors are missing. US also plays an important role in the China-Taiwan confict. US has a huge interest building millitary and economic bonds with Taiwan since 1950s. The reasons are: 1. Taiwan can be used to contain the growth of communist China, the country deemed to be a threat as soon as its inception. 2. A prosperous weathly capitalist Taiwan will shake the confidence in communist in mainland China. Meanwhile, the Chinese leaders are extremely worried about the influence of the US. They cannot afford Taiwan to be independent and import US weapons, even build US military base. For Taiwanese, most want to side with the US because Taiwan is westernized pretty well. On the other hand, mainland China is giving out political favors (trade deals, business opportunities) and also threatening a war for Taiwan to not pick a side. The bottomline is, what seems to be the conflict between China and Taiwan is actually the conflict between China and the US. Every time when the China-US relationship worsens, Taiwan makes the news.
Ccp has to be grateful to USA. Until USA allowed it into the trade network and eventually, WTO and WHO China economy as entire country was nothing compared to Taiwan. Even giving CCP China a permanent seat on the board of United Nations. USA wanted to give China the means to modernize in hopes the Chinese people would promote Democracy just like they did in Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan. communist China have killed more Chineses when any invading country in it history. Chinese fleeing the CCP have created success in Singapore, Indonesia, Taiwan, South Vietnam(when it existed). So the problem is at the core the CCP government that initially wanted to wipe and destroy all ancient and old Chinese history ( Destruction of Four Olds Campaign by Mao) now trying to use that same history to exert control at any means, at any cost to it own citizens.
USA is not scare if there is fair economic competition…look at Japan in 1980s….top companies and most expensive places, golf course, hotels, were in Japan not New York.
The USA & UK had systematically engineered the “conflict” btwn Taiwan & China for 75yrs by US military backed totalitarian brutal regime since WW2 for a future war event to carry out AmeriKKKan imperialist objective
From what i have gone through, Tsai is the one who identifies herself as both Chinese and Taiwanese. When she was young, she referred herself to being a chinese with a shift to Taiwanese now. Generally, Elder generation refer themselves to be chiense while the younger refer themselves to be Taiwanese. Besides the media, the political system and the history, the education has played a very important role here.
From what i understood, Taiwan is de facto independent as a part of Republic of China but also a part of People's republic China. I mean both parts are reasonable, but China will not give up the possibility to reunite (if it gives up, there is no way to claim it back). It would be wise of the US not to provoke and use Taiwan as a political instrument too much to stir the status quo. It is risky and also gives China the opportunity to move the line forward. anyway thanks for your video.
@@suekis2903 Taiwan is not independent as long as it is part of ROC. If they want to gain independent, they will be gaining independences from ROC. Taiwan is not just Taiwan. The offshore islands as the people in Taiwan called, they do not like to be called Taiwanese.
Looking at it as a Chinese, Taiwan and the mainland were previously fighting over who was really China, and then the title of China was replaced by the mainland, and Taiwan's native consciousness gradually awakened. Because of the political system, Taiwan could not accept reunification with the authoritarian mainland, but could not break away from the "Republic of China" China relationship, so in order to differentiate, it had to call itself Taiwanese.
1 correction for the video(17:23), giving Outer Mongolia to the Soviets was a deal made by Chiang Kai Shack and the Soviets, not Mao. Chiang wanted to do so to make CCP lose help from the Soviets. ROC declared Outer Mongolia independence on 19460105
This is patently untrue. ROC today still formally claims Mongolia as part of ROC and also Tuva, a republic in today's Russia. This is still in the ROC constitution.
@@tweedy4sg it’s them who signed that contract with Soviet to give up outer Mongolia right before wwii ended, it’s also them who disagree what the results which is based on that contract….they allowed the independence situation first and regret it afterwards, worst part is they knew what they signed and felt guilty for it 😑
@@tweedy4sg those dam fk roc signed the shitty paper to give up Outer Mongolia. If you sold you house, it is no longer your and no matter how you described it. Much dam ROC.
Dude! I’ve watched a lot of videos about the history and relationship between the two countries...a lot (and have lived in both). This is probably the most well balanced, non-emotional , non-partisan, fact-based explanation of the issue. Once again, you prove to have a level head and no agenda other than dissemination of the facts. Thank you, sir. We need more tubers like you out there.
over 95% of Taiwan's population of 23.4 million consists of Han Chinese, while 2.3% are Taiwanese indigenous peoples, rest of them are Minority groups from south china. The minorities Chinese and Han Chinese immigranted between 17th - 19th century. The 211 incident happened between the governmen Vs people(included all races in Taiwan), not Han VS indigenous Taiwanese. The Han are often divided into three subgroups: the Hoklo,(From Fujian province), the Hakka, 3.7%(from provinces in South mainland China), and waishengren around 15%(or "mainlanders" from other provinces of china). So, when he said they refused to speak Taiwanese, Does he means they should speak Hokkien, Hakka dialect or indigenous people's language only? What exactly is Taiwanese? Most of Taiwan people speak Mandarin with taiwan accent as their mother tongue language. They have same culture as Han Chinese or Minority groups of Chinese in mainland. The meaning of "waishengren" in Mandarin: Wai means"outside", shen: "province" ren: "people". Waishenren are people or people 's parents and grandparents who immigranted to Taiwan after 1945. Even the children born in Taiwan still can be called "waishenren", not "benshenren", because their parents or grandparents immigranted after 1945. Only for those who immigranted before 1945 can call themselves "benshenren"(Local). "Ben" means "origin". This video go through some part of fact only. When you missed some part of fact, you can't see the whole picture.
Thank you Ryan, this is much more balanced than what's out there & proves that most of the so called "China Watchers" who talk about Taiwan haven't even done 1/100th the amount of research you've done on the complexity of this issue. As someone from Taiwan who used to be pro independence but am now pro-unification (yes yes I'm in minority), I'll say this: 1) most countries recognize China's position on Taiwan; what's happened is that the US is now using Taiwan as leverage against China (divide & conquer strategy) & a place to sell used crappy weapons at a great price, but also the US suddenly woke up & realized it couldn't risk Chinese gaining control of semiconductors; the US does not really believe in any of this freedom & democracy nonsense. The US still recognizes the One China principle, and if it doesn't, it should come out and say so directly. 2) I personally think China's claim to Taiwan is much stronger than Japan's claim to Okinawa (aka Ryukyu) & US claim to Hawaii. If we want to challenge their claim, how about we look at how hypocritical we are with our own claims on land annexed by us. 3) taiwanese identity is complex - we are like 97% han chinese. After i started working in the mainland, even visiting ancestral home, and realizing how culturally connected we are to China, i think it's a complete joke for us to think that we are somehow not Chinese. The Chinese I've met in Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, basically everywhere else don't have an issue with identifying as Chinese, yet I feel now that the TW govt (w/ US & Japanese psy-ops help) is trying to brainwash this identity away. My sense of Chinese identity has only gotten stronger now that I've been seeing so much anti Chinese racism expressed by Americans, telling me to go back to my country & calling me a Chinese [epithet]. Most Americans probably can't even find Taiwan on a map. So yes, I look forward to Taiwan going back to China, and I think it's pretty inevitable anyway.
U are just stupid. Connected with Chinese people doesn’t mean it is to their gov. While I agreed that I feel the same when I talk to Chinese people, I felt we are the same family. However the ruler is diff, it’s fucking ccp. Taiwan will die just like how Hong Kong if it reunited. You’re basically trashing ur home for asking for reunification to CCP. I would agree for Reunification if China is democratic.
1) China wants to take Taiwan in order to establish its dominance in the Pacific. They also view the island as leverage against the US, the only difference is they wouldn't let the Taiwanese govern themselves. 2) Whataboutism argument. 3) Doesn't matter if the people don't wanna be ruled by a dictatorial one party state that is communist. You look forward to war erupting in Taiwan by Chinese agression?
@@dimitaru.8408 Are you Taiwanese or do you live in Taiwan? You should talk to people who actually live here 1. If you were actually able to read Chinese, it's less about strategic value than about righting a historical wrong. 2. Whataboutism? Cheap cop-out that doesnt address pure American hypocrisy. Literally America's #1 export 3. Taiwan isn't a democracy. We literally shut down a KMT-affiliated TV station and actively cancel people who are pro China or pro-unification, subject them to harassment, fines, even jailtime. Everyone here knows DPP corrupt as hell and have lotsa $$$ in mainland and $$$$ in the US.
Very well said.👏👏. The real TaIwanese are the indigenous people of Taiwan. They are less than 10% of the population. There are many Japanese disguised as Chinese. After Taiwan was returned to China thousands of Japanese remained in Taiwan & changed their names to Chinese names. The current President of Taiwan (Tsai Ing-Wen) is Japanese. She wants Taiwan to be independent so that with the help of the US, Taiwan will be returned to Japan. You must get rid of her at the next election
You ignored a simpler reason why the aborigines held on to Eastern Taiwan against the colonialists. It's less to do with being hard core and more to do with simple geography. It's hard to build anything where typhoons hit all the time. Taiwan's center is all mountains, providing a natural barrier against them, which is why over 95% of Taiwans population lives on the west coast.
That's the explanation I saw researching this too, but balanced against their tenacity to defend their territory against the colonialists. Geography alone doesn't explain why the aborigines held the east for so long, especially against an industrialized power like Japan.
@@realryanchapman 75 plus years post Japanese occupation has seen very little change in development of the East coast. Taiwan has had at least 1 typhoon either make landfall or graze it in 55 out of the last 56 years. Most areas of the world where hurricanes/typhoons hit are flat. Taiwan being 90% mountainous/hilly topology equates to mudslides in areas overly farmed or developed when typhoons hit.. These are far more dangerous than just heavy wind and rain. The simple fact is that these mudslides are far more prevalent on its East side. Geography is by far and away the biggest factor in why 23 out of 24 million live on the west side of the island.
@@kevinsiu4956 Right, but the question isn't 'why do most people live on the west side of Taiwan,' the question is 'why didn't these powerful colonial powers (like the Qing and Japanese) establish governance over the entire island of Taiwan for hundreds of years?' Geography is part of the answer, but imposing geography didn't prevent colonial powers elsewhere in the world from controlling the entire territory that they set out to control. The Qing and Japanese both tried to take the east from the aborigines and failed due to fierce resistance.
@@realryanchapman The answer to why most people live on the west coast does at least partially answer why the colonial powers failed to establish total control. Lack of incentive. Look at a map of Taiwan and you'll notice there's very little flat coastal land area on the east side. What little there is only goes 5 to 10 miles inland before you're right up against mountains. The east coast of Taiwan is nicknamed the landslide capital of the world.
It's also interesting to notice that the Taiwanese aboriginals are actually much more pro status quo and even pro unification some times compared to the rest of the population in Taiwan, Why? because they actually think the rest of the "outsider" STEAL Taiwan from them, so they would rather ally with the "enemy" :p.
if you kept brainwash since you are an infant, of course you will change their view. Actually Taiwan before US Sun flower coup in 2014...around end of 2000-2014 a lot had started shifted their view because Taiwan government see at the end of 2000, China rise is like no other country. Also more and more Taiwanese went to Mainland to work or to start business or even live. KMT government started to talk with the CPC Mainland. However, this was used by opposition to do sun flower coup that was also funded by US. Once DPP rule Taiwan in 2014, all voices that support reunification or status quo are actually silence. Couple media were shut by Tsai and DPP. School history lesson extremely change. If before 2000, their history lesson taught ancient China. During DPP rules, everyone were taught their history start in 1949. That is why newer generation always think they are "Taiwanese" some even believe they may not even have any Han Chinese DNA anymore, which definitely a joke! When most of Taiwanese actually lived in Taiwan started in 1949. Before that, they were all mainlanders!
International politics is based on national interests. Just as the United States would not allow a Soviet military presence in Cuba, just as it does today with the Russo-Ukrainian war. This is the reality of international politics, no matter how righteous the narrative behind it may be.
My friend, the so-called "Taiwanese language" is actually the Fujianese Min-nan dialect. It's exactly the same dialect spoken by the same Min-nan people across the Taiwan Straits. One can't tell the difference between the dialect spoken in Taipei & that spoken in Xiamen, China. The 2 main groups in Taiwan, the Min-nanese & the Hakka, migrated from Fujian & Guangdong a few centuries ago.
Taiwanese try hard to convince others believe that taiwan is country and taiwan has their language min-nan dialect. They want to create the " truth" to prove that Mainland China is lying.
Basically, people in both Taiwan & Mainland China can speak the same language and understand each other. The so called Taiwanese language is basically a combination of Fukien and Quandong dialects. China has over hundreds of different dialects, but the majority ( or official ) one is called Pu Tung Hua. Pu Tung Hua means common and general language. The writing in Mainland China is the simplified Chinese characters while in Taiwan, Hong Kong etc. is the Traditional Chinese characters. Most Chinese people (except some) can understand both types of characters.
Americans and British speak the same language but in the colonies they realized that their values and interests were different and thus separated. Just because two populations speak similar or even the exact same language means nothing towards their destinies.
The party Ryan mentioned that ruled China and took over Taiwan from Japan after WWII, the KuoMin-Tang, literally translates to the "Citizen Party", is usually referred to by historians as the "nationalist" (vs the communist). This nationalist party is now a minority party in Taiwan on the national level, but recently won by a huge margin a local election for mayors and city councils.
@@forbiddenchannel4901 by the US standards, the KMT is the minority, simply because it's not the majority in the Legislative Yuan (like the house of reps in the US). The DPP is in power and holds the majority of seats in the Legislative Yuan. Therefore, the KMT is the current minority party in Taiwan. I'm not talking about a statistical or purely linguistic definition of the word here.
Last thing I would add the Taiwan population mix which 90% are originally ancestry from China. And they don’t speak Taiwanese, they are actually speak Fujianese which one of Chinese dialect in southeastern China.
Norway has been in Union with both Denmark and Sweden throughout our history. We speak a very similar language. Domestic dialects can sometimes be harder to understand than Swedish and Danish. In Chinese logic we're not really an independent country, we just confused Danes or Swedes.
@@aksbeixhev There is something wrong with your logic. If you Norway, Denmark and Sweden were one kingdom hundreds of years ago, you were one race and spoke a similar language, you could say that your ancestors were all Vikings or Germans and so on. But it's not the same as whether you are independent countries or not. Because you recognize each other as different countries, and the international community also recognizes you as different countries. But Taiwan is just the name of the island, not the name of one country. Most of the people living on the island are Chinese Han people, who have continuously migrated from the mainland in the past two thousand years. We have the same language and the same race, and the constitution (whether it is the Republic of China or the People's Republic of China) clearly states that Taiwan Island is a part of China
@@_42_unknown16 do you know people used to call Netherland with just Holland for a very long time, until their government told people not to call them Holland anymore? Holland is also just a province of Netherland but people know that they are referring to the same country. Just like we all know who Bill Gates is but don't know his full name is William Henry Gates III.
Fun facts: Taiwan still uses mainland city names to name its navy ships; in their constitution the legit capital of Taiwan is still Nanjing, which is now the capital of Jiansu province of China. Taipei is only a temporary capital according to Taiwan regime.
Probably because they know eventually the mainlanders will come to their senses and overthrow the CCP, then unification can happen. When China is a true democracy.
Being Taiwanese, I have always failed to tell the stories without strong emotional attachment. Thank you for making this super informative and historically accurate video! I finally kinda understand where China is coming from lol. It feels very hopeless these days, but you put it beautifully: in taiwanese’s people’s mind, we’re tired from being claimed by foreign powers again and again. we want to be seen by the world as we are and treated with respect.
@@larrydavid5260 because it is, Taiwan is not part of PROC but ROC, and now Taiwan wants to be just Taiwan, so they can get rid of the "C" (China) in that ROC and PROC
it's not foreign though. both prc and roc are literally part of the chinese nation hence the "china" in their official names. for as long as taiwan are han chinese majority, "taiwanese" will always share some of the stigma with mainland chinese. you're feeling helpless because of good asian, bad asian syndrome.
@@deadbydaylight3168 Using that one word “China” to suggest that they are automatically one nation isn’t logical. The United States of America and “the Americas” both have “America” in the name, but one is a country and the other term refers to a large region full of many different countries and cultures, and it doesn’t mean that they should become the same thing. Also, countries could call themselves whatever they want, but ultimately what matters is what the people want for themselves. If Taiwanese people now see themselves as unique and separate, who is China to argue with them? That makes China an aggressor and coercer. Also why does it matter if both countries are majority Han Chinese? The US is full of people with British ancestry and we were once a British territory, but I think everyone would be outraged if British MPs started calling on “reunification” with the US. The PRC has so much to feel proud of without becoming a warhawk and stirring up global conflict. American governments have already caused enough trouble with the Middle East for years, and Russia with its neighbors, we don’t need conflict in the Pacific again too when we would be better off with peace.
Although forgot to mention, DPP changed the history books of Taiwan, purposely removing history with China, and many officials actually have ties with Japan and US or are Japanese converted into Chinese names. Many Taiwanese dont even think they are ethnically Chinese. although 98% are. As leading party you control what people see and hear, most of pro unification media etc have been banned by DPP from TV.
I am from China (Mainland), just add something: - Country and Government are two concepts. 1.China is a Country, it's thousands year old. 2."Peoples' Republic of China" (AKA: New China / Mainland China / Communist China, from 1949 - Current) and "Republic of China" (Old China / Taiwan Government, from 1912 - 1949) are two Government. Government represents Country. - The history is: ROC was governed by "China Nationalist Party" (AKA: KMT), but at its late time, it was totally corrupt, at that time Communism was brought to China, so most People believed it can change China. So, they built up the China Communist Party, and overthrew ROC, built up PRC. so, the rest of KMT escaped to Taiwan, and claim that ROC still exists. - So, the conflict is who can represent China? to me, the answer is clear, ROC is gone, it's the old dynasty, PRC replaced ROC, and represents China now. and no matter ROC or PRC, China is China, that's the whole land including Taiwan island, it's recorded in both constitutions.
One detail may have been ignored or missed by Ryan, which is that when Kuo Min Tang retreated to the island Taiwan it was already one of the 35 provinces of China, whether it was ruled by Kuo Min Tang or by the Communist regime. That is an important reason for both sides of the Strait to sustain on their claim that both Taiwan and the Mainland China belong to the same China. The only disagreement between the two regimes is "Who is the legitimate regime of the devided county, which even up to date is a unagreed issue.
Japan gave up its claims on Formosa, which was integral part of its territory and admistered as a prefecture, to no one. This makes the issue of territorial claims complicated especially with regard to international law. I don't know how territorial aquisition of inhabited territory without recognized government could happen lawfully after the 1940s. To my knowledge ROC just extended its force there without any further process.
@@purikurix one argument that has been used is that the ROC succeeded Qing China which did own Taiwan. So when Japan vacated its colonies after WW2, Taiwan returned to the ROC based on this State Succession theory.
@@ceasar8679 give up what? I have no claim to make. Only sharing theories that others have published. I know very well what Taiwan is like and what its diplomatic situation is.
I think it’s worth mentioning in the constitution of both PRC and ROC，there is only one China, ROC(Taiwan)s constitution includes all China as their territory (including Mongolia) 😂 Taiwan is a province in both constitution
New favorite channel. you really seem to go out of your way to eliminate bias as much as possible. Plz continue these types of videos discussing political conflicts and their history that gives a birds eye view.
@@Ausiedundan There never was a Taiwanese identity. This video sneakily tries to portray China as some crazy imperialist power stuck in the past to obtain "former" glory and power hungry to subjugate native " Taiwanese". But there is no such thing! Taiwanese ARE Chinese. Unless you account for the "natives" who are 2% of the population. More than 90% of Taiwan are Han Chinese from various parts of China. There is NO taiwanese language like what the video tries to portray. People in Taiwan of course speak mandarin and also Minan, a fujian dialect spoken by people in China. We speak that too here in Southeast Asia (Btw, many many people in SouthEast Asia, India, Middle East understand what is going on and is pro china. China is not alone.) From the perspective of a SouthEast Asian, I think pro independent people in Taiwan are VERY naive and selfish. They don't understand how difficult it is to survive in such a darwinian world. Also, its nothing to do with being the center of the world BS. China was never a warmongering imperialist. Taiwan IS a part of China and how can you concede your sovereignty? BOTH Taiwan and China claims to be the legitamate government of China. It's just that one side lost and the Americans have funneled various resources to keep it that way so that they can influence china. The one who wants war is the west, not China. Look at how western nations influence any problems a country has. Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Ukraine, Palestine just to name a few. The only reason why Taiwan is a problem now is because China is strong and the west wants to contain it. I urge you to stop browsing western propaganda and look for other sources from around the world, you will have a different perspective. Majority of Chinese understand the sensitivity of the situation and are more than willing to have a peaceful resolution one day. But the Americans are doing all they can to push for war, which China can only respond why heightening tensions. War in China will affect us here in SEA drastically and we hope the Americans will have some confidence in their abilities to compete fairly and work on their own country before trying to start war.
Facts about Taiwan that ignored by a smart mind like Ryan, by accident? - The population migration from China to Taiwan was recorded as early as AD-230, over 1000 years earlier than the 16th century - the most (>95%) people living in Taiwan today is of the Han Chinese ethnicity originate from China, which inherited lots of historical and culture relation with China. President Tsai is also Han Chinese, her family prospered significantly during Japan's ruling time. - there was only one "228 incident" kind of bad killing event during the rule of "Kuomindang", comparing with half million people killed during his so-called Japan's "modernize the place" - the overwhelming public opinion (to be independent) of the Confederacy did not stop the American Civil War to unite the United States - "thought highly at themselves" is a good thing for any people / county / civilization, as long as it is not used as excuse to conquer, colonize and enslave others, or to stop to progress - If Mao can decide, the Korean war would not happen ... the new weak China did not want any external war while facing big internal issues - there is unsettled Chinese civil war between PRC and RoC (Taiwan). "Taiwan is part of China" is clearly stated in the Constitution of PRC and the Constitution of RoC - behind almost every hot conflicts in today's world, there has been the evil shadow of "divide and rule" to benefit from inciting hatred, it seems the talent (may be in its blood) of some people
Nice work. I think you should have mentioned that the USA maintains informal military presence in Taiwan, which is a big driving factor behind all the talk of integrity and security. Imagine how US would feel if China had a military presence in Cuba. When the Soviets were, the world almost ended. Personally my heart is with the Taiwanese but this factor is crucial...
It's different. Cuba was never our own territory. US has a Military presence in all of Asia because of the Korean War and because Japan cannot use their military outside of their own country. The Philippines have been invaded by several regimes and can't defend themselves against the might of imperialist countries. After the Baatan death march the US should always have a presence there to keep them safe. This is why Russia has relations with South America. US imperialism threatened South America. Because China has a past trauma they want to do so much to get back at every foreign country possible even if they aren't to blame. China is doing too much and is no better than any other imperialist country of the past. They need to stop stealing land from the Philippines and taking ports from other smaller countries with loans they know they will never pay back. All imperialism from every country is wrong. The whole world needs to end imperialism for good. All borders should be respected from now on. Taiwan has been independent long enough. They deserve to be theirs own sovereign country whether China likes it or not. Democracy is the present and the future.
@@gravegaming2023 Exactly. South Korea and Japan would not be free countries, and would not be prosperous and as liberalized as it is to this day, thanks to the United States. I agree the U.S. is no Saint, and certainly has its flaws and has done wrongdoings. But a world order under Washington is nowhere near as dystopian and hellish as a totalitarianism world based order under Bejing. Just look at what Bejing did with its satellite state North Korea since the Korean War, and likewise look at what Washington did with its satellite state South Korea, since the Korean War. The differences are extremely stark in contrast.
@@FledgedPhoenix taiwan is not indipedent (UN) litaraly says so basically all countries (including USA)do not recognize taiwan, Not as independent but as part of china only a few hand full of small islands recognize Taiwan as independent. By your logic the donbas milita has had gotten separat from Ukraine for a while and is indipedent shoud Ukraine just let donbas goo?
Excellent, excellent video! Extremely informative yet completely unbiased, this is a must watch for anyone who's interested in the history between China and Taiwan
Traditional Chinese: 中華民國 Romanize: Zhong Hua Ming Guo Direct translate: Chinese Republic Official English: Republic of China Unofficial: Taiwan (ROC) Rebel: Taiwan 😊
One-China Policy should never be left out when talking about today’s Taiwan situation. Don’t know if it’s on purpose or not. Anyway here’s some facts about it: The ‘One China Policy’ is the foundation of today’s Sino-US relation. By acknowledging there’s only one China and which Taiwan is a part of, the US started official diplomatic relation with PRC China in 1970s. The policy also played a role in China rejoining the UN. As PRC replaced ROC as an official member of UNSC. One-China Policy was acknowledged by all UN members then. Only that some countries may differ on which government is the official representative of China. Given the facts above, it becomes clear that today’s conflict around Taiwan is more of the conflict between China and US rather than between mainland and Taiwan. Because as ‘One-China Policy’ is still in effect, Taiwan’s issue is nothing but an internal affair of China. That is, an issue among the people on both sides of the sea. An issue which the US has no business in. However, as Taiwan is too valuable an asset in controlling the first island chain thus containing China, the US has been seeking ways to treat Taiwan as a country without actually tearing up the agreement. In other word, ‘strategic ambiguity’ is actually an effort to hollow out the One-China Policy. PRC China reaffirms One-China principle as a counter measure, so the conflict begins. Actually, to think Taiwanese people alone have the right to decide whether Taiwan will be a country or not is nothing short of neglecting the One-China policy. And this is the exact narrative the US has been preaching across the world. I have seen similar narrative in this video, which I don’t think is a comprehensive enough way to approach this issue. Still, this video is one of the more all-sided presentations of this matter. Todays MSM narratives on Taiwan are not only biased, but also dangerous. Misjudgment will only aggravate the conflict, and after all the events in 2022 this is the last thing the world needs now.
"The ‘One China Policy’ is the foundation of today’s Sino-US relation. By acknowledging there’s only one China and which Taiwan is a part of, the US started official diplomatic relation with PRC China in 1970s." Incorrect. The US, nor any other Western power, has ever recognized Taiwan as a part of China. What you are quoting is China's "one China policy", not the one China policy agreed to by countries like the US. The United States' One-China policy was first stated in the Shanghai Communiqué of 1972: "the United States acknowledges that Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China." It doesn't say Taiwan is a part of China, it simply says that the US that the US knows that China thinks this.
My mother's uncle was a secretary to Chiang Kai Shek and I could never get him to talk much about his memories. (I was only 10 or 12 at the time. )This means a lot to me thank you so much
I have seen a lot of videos on the subject of Taiwan yet yours is the first to actually explain the history and perspective of either side let alone both.
I really appreciate your clear and impartial exploration into these topics. You state the history (as briefly as is possible), and relay the current stances of the relevant parties, in their own words where available. It’s so refreshing to be given such a synopsis, free of bias. I loved your video on “the golden age” of news, and I wish there were more sources for this kind of clean reporting in modern journalism and political analysis. Thank you for the time and effort you put into these videos.
So the keywords are *“making sense”, "twists to reality"* and *"uneducated western assumptions".* Let me attempt to give you a more radical perspective in a grander scope along those veins if you don't mind. See, the Chinese Nation or civilization or culture has been existing “undisturbed” since 500+ yrs before Jesus was born totaling 2500+ years as a unified country. 70+ years before Columbus set sail on his great expedition China’s Admiral Zhenghe had already completed 7 grand scale expeditions between 1405 and 1433 covering as far as Eastern Africa and the entirety of Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean(more than 70,000 nautical miles, more than three times the circumference of the earth) resulting in far-reaching ocean voyages to the coastal territories and islands in and around the South China Sea, the Indian Ocean, and beyond. Before that Kublai Khan’s government had sent his ministers to the island to declare governance in 1292 and subsequently installed jurisdiction over Taiwan in Penghu in1335. China could have colonized all of the above easily if it so chose but it only did so to Taiwan in the 1600s. Why? you might ask. Well because China at that time had no need to do so. The *reality* was so *untwisted* that it was almost oblivious to it and the majority who inhabited the island were mostly their own compatriots AKA the Han people. See how things *make sense* to the Chinese? Where inhabited by my own people I will *assume* mine but I will not touch where populated by others, unlike the Europeans. However, all had changed since the invasion from the West. The above connects to Ryan's video at 0:58 ( I do recommend you click and watch the video again before continuing reading ) Ryan's video does have a Chinese perspective which I appreciate but unlike many in the comment section who exalted him with all kinds of praises, I would like to point out that his entire logic is still under the Westen Paradigm established through 500 years of colonial history, which completely and naturally *makes* perfect *sense* to you but doesn’t to most Chinese who have had no choice but to put up with such arrangements and logic, until it becomes as strong as the Great Powers from the West that is. The same can be said about the Johnsons line and McMahon line at the Sino-Indian border.
@@clarkl7027 Thanks for your reply. I don't feel that he "failed to mention" the first point. He never did a demographic breakdown, as it's not particularly relevant to the political opinions of the people. During the brief history, he described how there was various colonisations and annexations, and how for hundreds of years now it was settlers from mainland China and their descendants who have lived there. But just as settlers/colonisers moved from Europe to the Americas, and the populations there remain majority ethno-European, doesn't have any bearing on whether, say, Brazil should be "unified" with Portugal today. I would also argue strongly against the idea that Taiwanese and Chinese share "exactly the same culture". An island nation with centuries of influence from various political powers, combined with the comparatively recent split from the communist ideals of mainland china are clear differences to point to, culturally. On your second point, the fact that the people of Taiwan predominantly speak a variation on the Hokkien language from Fujian is no surprise, due to the (again, clearly mentioned) large-scale settlement of Taiwan by China hundreds of years ago. I had no expectation from watching this video that the settled people decided to invent an entirely new language. Ryan quoted a source describing how the KMT rulers "refused to speak Taiwanese", as they insisted on speaking in Mandarin instead. That was the only time the language of Taiwan was raised, and it's a relevant point. Mandarin is not a Hokkien dialect, so they are appreciably distinct. On your third point, the reason that they've changed their national identity since the 90's might have something to do with the fact that they've only had a democracy since the 1990's? As clearly explained in the video, the KMT had ruled Taiwan since the Japanese had been defeated. And seeing as the KMT clearly considered themselves to be "Chinese", and even after losing the civil war with Mao and his revolutionaries, had plans to "retake" the mainland (as openly stated in the video)... the KMT ruled Taiwan effectively as dictators, with tight restrictions on speech. Saying that the DPP "controlled the media to brainwash Taiwanese" into wanting independence is laughable, when the previous political power had overtly and violently controlled people's ability to express their desires for self-determination. The Taiwanese have only been able to express themselves since the 90's, and since the 90's they have been expressing that they would like independence from China. Both of these points are facts. You can decide yourself whether they are important facts in whether or not Taiwan should have independence or be part of China. But whatever opinion you have, does not change these facts, as they are in and of themselves impartial. A comment like "DPP tempered the textbook and controlled the media, brainwashing Taiwanese people after they took office", said without any backing is not impartial. That difference is why, as I said in my original comment, I appreciate Ryan's videos. Anyway, thanks again for your comment, even if we disagree.
@@clarkl7027 While I appreciate that you took the time to write such a detailed response, unfortunately I'm not pursuing a conversation of backing-up or rebutting the various claims made by each party against each other. Once again, my original comment was that Ryan's video gave a factual and balanced look at the situation as it stands. Some of the claims you are making are exactly the opposite of what I am here for. How much ethnicity and cultural similarities/differences should be factors in self-governance of geographically distinct groups of people is a matter of fierce debate. Just ask Russia and Ukraine. How ethnically and culturally distinct do people have to be before they suddenly gain the option of independent rule? Should the Republic of Ireland default to being part of the UK by virtue of the cultures being "more similar than different"? On a side note, saying that Taiwanese eat "Chinese Food" is a rather funny statement, as China, being as large and populous as it is, does not have one fixed cuisine. People in all regions of the country have quite distinct foods. Whether you consider Taiwan to be a region of China or an independent state, it equally has its own distinct food and food culture. Regarding Mandarin being the official language of Taiwan since the Ming dynasty... I doubt that's true as Mandarin only became the official language of China in the early 1900's. I'll defer to you if you have more knowledge on the topic, but I would still say that something being the "official language" does not settle the matter, as authorities imposing a chosen language on the population has happened all over the world. I don't even know how to respond to your final point. I'd be happy to hear a non-biased account of any propaganda the DPP may or may not be injecting into the education system. But I can't take any claims made by you seriously, as you very clearly have a pre-existing stance on this. Stating that the DPP shapes the textbooks of their country to help influence pro-independence while completely ignoring the absolute totalitarian control that the CCP has over both the education system and the press in China is disingenuous in the context of a discussion about un-biased reporting. The CCP has been overtly re-writing the textbooks in Hong Kong to favour their policies, for one easy example. Feel free to reply again if you wish, but as I said at the beginning of this comment, I do not have the interest (or frankly, the expertise) to continue a debate on this matter, so please don't take it as an insult if I don't reciprocate.
disclaimer: i’m from China I think it’s misleading to frame it as if Taiwan has its own distinct culture right off the bat. Aboriginals make up a tiny percentage of the current population and 96% are immigrants from China. We speak the same language, learn the same history, consume mostly the same entertainment formats. You say the position in the video is from the official Taiwanese narrative, I’ll take your word for it since I’m not familiar but that is misleading and taking advantage of the minority natives for their own narrative. I think the conflict is much more political than cultural, and I don’t think it would be so bad for a unified China, IF it’s democratized.
This is really well-written and well-researched. You explained the situation of the issue very well. I really like how unbiased this video is, in explaining the situation and the feeling of both sides.
This video has a gross omission that Han Chinese has established settlement on Taiwan since Song Dynasty, which was officially annexed by the Southern Song Dynasty and existed as an admisnistrative area during the Yuan Dynasty, which used it as one of the staging areas for Khublai's failed 2nd invasion of Japan in 1281. Given the depth of research in Ryan's other videos, I find it hard to believe that framing the Dutch as the first ruler of Taiwan was an unintential mistake and damages the image of neutrality he tries to maintain.
I really admire the effort put in this video. Cannot agree with a few things the way you put it as a Chinese. I found a comment from “One leaf”has laid out several points that need to be argued more. Hope RYAN will read them and tackle this topic further more, and make more updates on Taiwan issue.
That was one of the greatest attempts at explaining the situation between Taiwan and China and good job at doing this! I can see that the video was very well researched and expresses both side's situation really elaborately! While I think that the video has done an amazing job at explaining Taiwan's perspective and I'm would also align myself as very much pro-Taiwan. One feedback I would give is that, this video might have misrepresented a bit of the origins of the Taiwanese people. (But again this is still a great video) A vast majority of Taiwanese are essentially settlers/colonists onto the island throughout the past few centuries. Han Chinese settlers from southeastern China(Fujian province) started in the 17th century after Dutch colonization. The video seems to have portrayed the Taiwanese people more like a group of natives who have always been on the island that are fighting against Chinese imperialism, but the reality is more complicated than that, where the majority demographic of Taiwan is also the result of the same kind of "Chinese imperialism." But I think this is the truth that many Taiwanese might be too upset to hear, because it's too anticolonialist and radical. It would the equivalent be me calling out all white Americans as settlers on the continent and a product of British imperialism. With regards to this, I do think that the Taiwanese independence movement is much more comparable to the American independence movement from Britain in the 18th century. Where British settlers on the continent have embraced a new kind of nationality(Americans) and wanted to be separate from British colonial rule and set up an independent liberal democratic republic away from the monarchical rule back home. But despite the establishment of the United States as a new nation, it doesn't really change the fact that the vast majority of Americans were British descendants and settlers rather than actual native Americans. So, Taiwan is also a result of Han Chinese settler colonialism, and I apologize for bringing in this critical theorist perspective into the picture, since in settler societies plenty of people have also argued that it is quite divisive to separate a nation into settlers vs. natives, but it's a valid point of view that more Taiwanese Aborigines would certainly hold towards their Han Taiwanese compatriots and China. I think a very similar thing like the U.S. is actually happening in Taiwan, coincidentally the Taiwanese also want to set up their own independent nation with a liberal democratic political system, but this doesn't change the fact that 95% of Taiwanese are Han descendants rather than indigenous peoples on the island. Although to be fair, the Han Taiwanese have had a more peaceful and less oppressive relationship with the Aboriginals, where plenty of Han Taiwanese in earlier centuries have already integrated and married with the indigenous population. And the DPP's administration have already been pursuing reconciliation and even more recognition of the original status of the Aboriginals. So my point is, IT IS important to recognize that the Taiwanese is indeed composed of 95% Han Chinese people, not because I support China's unification plan, but because it's a recognition of the status of Taiwanese Aboriginals that they are the natives of the land. So I think there should be an even more nuanced evaluation of Taiwan's perspective that distinguishes Han Taiwanese and Taiwanese Aboriginals. And I think if the Taiwanese independence movement succeeds in the future, the island would be facing a new set of challenges that exists in post-colonial Americas like U.S., Canada, and Australia, which is the need for reconciliation between its settler population and its native population.(In Taiwan: this would be the Han Taiwanese(being analogous to white Americans) vs. Taiwanese Aboriginals(being analogous to native Americans.) And for Taiwan, it is recommended that they keep pursuing their pluralistic policy of uniting and respecting their Aboriginal population, where it could become a post-colonial society more like New Zealand's, where its settler and Maori population would have a much more amicable relation with each other.
I don't think it is in parallel to the colonization of the US, since KMT's military resources was backed by the US, so there is another layer of power dominance of the Anglo-Saxons playing a strong hand manipulating affairs in Asia for their own interests in that regard
It's worth noting that the calls for unification is more important then actually unifying. They won't ever admit it but Taiwan is more important as an enemy then they ever would be as a territory.
I have talked to many of my Chinese friends, when they talk about Taiwan it comes with strong emotion. Not emotion of hate, but rather sadness coming from the century of humiliation, they believe if the west seeks to stand in their way it is a continuation of that humiliation on the Chinese people. They will fight to the last man if they must in order to achieve total unification of China, they don't care if the war last for 100 of years or even 1000s, deep down their desire for unification is intense. The way I see it, the Chinese are not joking or FKing around in this matter. As out siders we might think there are other motives, but to the Chinese this is real, real as in life and death level of real.
Whilst I don't agree with the underlying message of this video, I will say the video covers this whole China/Taiwan issue very thoroughly, logically and convincingly. Well done 👏
Great work on history research, I juast want to add that above all the history, the strategic position as the center piece of the first island chain, and the dominant semi-conductor industry are probably the thing that really interest any superpower to get involved in the issue.
Chips are a distraction, USA and west knows that one missile or bomb to tsmc factory and it's game over, nothing for USA to "protect" anymore. China can just use one of their thousands of spies in Taiwan to do terrorist attack on the factory. The real reason is first island chain containment, and always using Taiwan card for political leverage against china in every other us china negotiations. If china had access to Taiwan, it would have a deep water port and USA can no longer contain or track Chinese submarines, china would have free access to the whole pacific and the world. Taiwans deep water ports have waters thousands of meters deep, while China's coast has like 50-100 meter deep only, which allows USA to use Taiwan, Japan, Philippines and South Korea to contain and track all Chinese subs coming and leaving the first island chain. Compared to the first island chain containment and tracking of Chinese navy including nuke subs, chips are nothing. It's all about national security and USAs containment of China. If China takes Taiwan, USA basically loses all its control of China and China would basically be on equal footing with USA, since china would now have the ability to sneak attack USA west coast at will from the seas.
@@ex0duzz Very well said. Security for sure plays at least 80% of a role here, because it's life or death problem. Tsmc, however, is not something China is interested in bombing (actually US might even like the idea of tsmc factories getting blown up since the Arizona factory would then become the best they are left with). China wants it to make her profit instead. Especially considering China's bid for high-tech industry dominance, tsmc could be an important piece of puzzle to that spply chain. Not saying it is even close to the significance of navy ships, it's just that it creates a delicate balance there.
@@instachocolate yeh course china is not interested in war except as a last resort. China also uses tsmc chips after all and china is taiwans biggest trade partner, and taiwanese are also Chinese in Chinese people's eyes. Only usa and west benefit from Chinese killing Chinese. War, terrorism and killing is a failure of diplomacy and higher level strategy to Chinese. That's more usa style and thus why they project their insecurities on china. They don't understand china enough
man you are awesome! you understand this fucked up situation better than anybody I know, and I was born and raised in a place where EVERYBODY was constantly talking about this.
Much of your analysis is wrong. Actually democratization was forced by the United States. This is why the US advocates democracy in small countries all over the world, because it can prop up its own puppets. Since the democratization of Taiwan, every president has to report to the United States. He represents the interests of the United States, not Taiwan. Why are you afraid to talk about American influence in your video? Isn't it freedom of speech?
The one thing we can agree on is that the main losers of all this were the locals of Taiwan which were colonised and completely ignored and almost wiped out through the various occupation. Both the (historically Chinese but now) Taiwanese people and the Chinese people have valid criticisms, with the sovereignty of the island technically falling to the CCP after the civil war but also it has been 70 years and the people of Taiwan have had their own government for as long making their government at this point pretty valid. I honestly envy the real people which have to make the decisions and deal with the ramifications because it’s a hard situation to be in.
It's only a hard decision because the CCP exists. They are the ones pushing the issue and stopping a peaceful exchange. If they, for example, had a DPP entity in their political makeup, Taiwan would be more amiable to 'annexation'.
China sees itself as a civilization state where the country is the geographical region with multiple forms of government. While Taiwan sees itself as a nation state where what the government has control over is the country.
That is very true, and it's something many people in the West have a hard time understanding because we are taught about China simply as a communist ideological project. A Taiwan unified with China would most likely still have elections etc., however, movements toward independence would be illegalized, as we have seen in HK.
@@spacejunk2186 The mainland doesn't have elections, so no. Hong Kong is also not like the mainland. There are no restrictions on the internet etc. in Hong Kong, like you have in the mainland.
I think you should have made a comparison between China's stance over sovereignty with other similar issues going on around the world and wondered if China's stance was really out of place as suggested by many in the Western world. Like they say, do as I say but not as I do . The immediate example that comes to mind is Catalonia where the local population has expressed in 2 referendums their willingness to separate completely from Spain and yet the leaders of that referendum were deemed criminals and chased around Europe as mere criminals to be brought back to face justice in Spain for inciting secession. Is there more to say ? That's just one case and if you look at the difficulties Scotland has faced in acrrying out a referendum, its not much different. You could examine the fate of Corsica and you'd probably find out the same and Quebec is also in that basket where nationalistic forces can re ignite the movement toward separation. So, was force exerted in the case of Catalonia ? Absolutely. But then, Spain is part of the Western alliance and doesn't face military restraint with tens of military bases surrounding it ready to strike. Food for thought.
Yes except the fact that those countries are all democracies where the government was elected by the people. The CCP is a genocidal autocracy, which is completely unaccountable to it's people, trying to take over a fledgling democracy in Taiwan, which is actually accountable to it's people. Those two systems are totally incompatible as the the CCP demonstrated in Hong Kong. Secondly, those examples aren't great. Scotland and Quebec have had legit referendums on independence and both voted no. Catalonia is however a good example for your argument and so is the American civil war. Undoubtedly those countries are economically stronger with those territories staying within the country as they've developed together. Taiwan on the other has developed economically independently from China for over a century with a brief spat between the end of WW2 and the civil war
@@bordedup546 You basically showed how undemocratic you are and how hypocritical you come across by saying that 'You' can decide that it will be better for Catalonia to stay part of Spain for their own good but Taiwan for some obscure reason is economically stronger and should be allowed to separate. You know what Global South observers would call that : Discrimination, plain and simple. You , westerners think you can make the rule, bend them as you want and get away with it as you make exceptions for your cherished projects that will upset your own little world. You call yourself democracies as you jail leaders of a democracy (Catalonia) that freely decided to separate by a majority and you suddenly close your eyes on this criminal behavior and want to explain it as paternalistic as possible, "It would be good economically that Catalonia remain inside Spain, that's why we will use force to jail the leaders and render void the referendum that they voted to separate from Spain and you have the guts to call yourself a democracy. Man, that's the most undemocratic and disgusting statements showing how little thoughts were put in replying to my statements above. They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is democracy. Ask Edward Snowden or Julian Assange whether they consider the West a democracy !!! Btw, there's no comparison in what happened to Catalonia and Hong Kong. The Chinese have every right to arrest anyone who're trying to formant trouble in Hong Kong and that's what they did.
@@bobmorane4926 You can't have so much anguish about Catalonia, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden and then hand-wave away what China did in Hong Kong. That's hypocracy in it's purist form. I also take grave exception to the term "global south". I was born and lived in India so I actually know what it's like, despite your presumption to the contrary. You can pretend that the global south is a powerful unified front opposing the west, similar to how united countries within the EU are, but that's just false. "Global south" is a made up term that hold no weight outside of Russian & Chinese propaganda. I don't agree with how Edward Snowden or Julian Assange were treated nor with the fact that Catalonia wasn't allowed to be independent. These are of course mistakes but that doesn't mean that those countries aren't democratic, like you seem to be implying. This is an incredibly very weak argument. I never said that Catalonia would be economically better off within Spain, I was actually referring more to the American civil war example. What I was trying to say is that undoubtedly America is a much stronger economy because it didn't split into two separate countries. For this reason some democratic states allow secession, UK & Canada, while others don't, Spain & USA. Taiwan & China have been economically independent for over a century, so the above argument doesn't apply to this dispute. I can see why the CCP feels as strongly about secession as the USA does but those two countries are very different. The CCP wants Taiwan for imperial reasons and if they get it they will no doubt supress the wonderful free & democratic civil society that Taiwan has built for itself. On the other hand, residents of the American South enjoy all of the same rights as their north counterparts and are equals within the union, not subordinates. This is the difference between a democracy and a genocidal dictatorship like the CCP. This is why despite being a somewhat legitimate claim by the CCP, I will never support their ambition to take Taiwan. I despise the tyrannical CCP and I suport Taiwan for the vibrant democracy they've built, despite the CCP's best efforts. In a dispute between a democractic government and a dictatorship over who gets to survive, I will always support the democracy because at the end of the day, their citizens actually voted for them.
@@bordedup546 The way you you define democracy seems to be a made up term based on your limited understanding of what a democracy is and what a referendum means and you use tyranny freely without much thought of what it actually means. If you're from India, well the US has some real issues with the Indian democracy as used willy nilly by the Indians to be really proud of as the muslims in Kashmir or the Sikhs revolts are being crushed with the army. Blinken never misses a beat to remind the Indians about his concerns on the human rights issues in India. I think many in the Global South have trouble understanding those terms and they do not realize how brain washed they've been about democracy and tyranny as your statements and explanation clearly show. That's what I was trying to tell you, you still want to give a pass to what happened in Catalonia , but refuses to understand the hypocritical parallel with Taiwan or Hong Kong. You're clearly not rational in your thoughts or you cannot comprehend the irony in full view. And let me remind you that the hypocrisy isn't from China which isn't lecturing anybody else about how to solve their constitutional issues, but the West is always lecturing others even as they cannot even solve their own constitutional problems and show themselves to be dictatorial in solving their constitutionl roadblocks (by arresting the leaders for breaking the law) but guess what, you cannot appreciate the gravity of this action which you just want to minimize as a minor mistake when it's in fact much more serious coming from a country that declares itself a democracy.
@@bobmorane4926 I'll reiterate: the global south doesn't exist; can you explain what the "global south" is so I can understand why you're so obsessed with it? Instead of going around in circles can you define democracy, explain why the US and Spain aren't ones and which countries are democracies according to you? Tyrannical is an apt description for the CCP: Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Tibet, Tiananmen Square, Mao's great leap forward and so on prove it. I've noticed that your arguments rely heavily on grievances with the West. If Blinkin is telling India it has human rights issues then so be it. I also think India has human rights issues, corruption, toxic news media, aggression towards Pakistan and more. A democracies main effort must be about facing it's problem head on rather than holding onto petty grievances against the West. You also keep repeating your grievance with Spain but what Spain did was legal because their constitutions explicitly prohibits secession and the Supreme Court arrested the Catalonian leaders on these grounds. Whether it was moral is a different question and I agree with you that it was not. You are also right to that the CCP can feel the same way about Taiwan and that it would be somewhat hypocritical to deny them that. However, your politics of grievances and hypocrisy is too simplistic to address the elephant in the room: the CCP wants to invade Taiwan, kill hundreds of thousands in the process, arrest it's rightfully elected leaders, violently suppress opposition, freedom of speech, reverse decades of progress by dismantling it's democracy forever and destroy what makes Taiwanese society so prosperous. You're telling me all of this is acceptable because you have some grievances with the West and because some countries in the West are hypocritical about secession? People like me aren't convinced by your arguments because they are insignificant when compared to the reality of the death, decimation of freedom and democracy that the CCP's invasion will bring. This is vital for you to address if you want to convince people that the CCP is right to want to invade Taiwan
I don't really like most videos introducing Taiwan and China issue. However, this is an amazing video that clearly explained the history and principle of both sides. You must spend a lot of time on this, appreciate it! Will support your other videos too🥰
Isn't it fascinating that the fate of Ming Dynasty was the same as the ROC? LIke both of them fled to the island and reminisce of reclaiming the mainland.
This video has a gross omission that Han Chinese has established settlement on Taiwan since Song Dynasty, which was officially annexed by the Southern Song Dynasty and existed as an admisnistrative area during the Yuan Dynasty, which used it as one of the staging areas for Khublai's failed 2nd invasion of Japan in 1281. Given the depth of research in Ryan's other videos, I find it hard to believe that framing the Dutch as the first ruler of Taiwan was an unintential mistake.
This video has a gross omission that Han Chinese has established settlement on Taiwan since Song Dynasty, which was officially annexed by the Southern Song Dynasty and existed as an admisnistrative area during the Yuan Dynasty, which used it as one of the staging areas for Khublai's failed 2nd invasion of Japan in 1281. Given the depth of research in Ryan's other videos, I find it hard to believe that framing the Dutch as the first ruler of Taiwan was an unintential mistake and damages the neutrality image.
I find it hard to search mainland china and tai wan history without being political biased from western media. And this video helping me so much to understand both perspective in neutral position. thanks for your great journalism.
Great overview. And the fact that in the end he did not introduce the US as a political force capitalizing on this controversy makes this review even more balanced.
You stated that indigenous Taiwanese have decided that colonial forces, including the Chinese, will no longer govern them. You are suggesting that the Taiwanese are not Chinese. And, to camouflage your bias, you did not mention Taiwan ethnic groups, because 95-97% of Taiwanese people are Han, the same as in mainland China, and only 2.3% are indigenous (Yuanzhumin or Gaoshan people). Taiwanese people are Chinese.
Why do Chinese people always think this is such a good point when there are many independent nations like Australia, New Zealand, and America, that are independent and don't expect Britain to try to invade them.
@@user-yc3fw6vq5n America is because it defeated British at its Peak. And the others are because The British Empire falls from the Grace. It is an extraordinary achievement that Chinese Civilization has the ability to continue its existence in Excellence for almost 3 thousand years. but that is the nightmare for its neighbors or Taiwan in this case.
Excellent Video. I thought it was very well balanced although I would like to add more points. The reason why the majority of people in China and Taiwan prefer the status quo of "one China" but with different interpretations is that it has already occurred, and not simply preventing a war between the two sides (although i admit it is the main one). Like Ryan said "China" (referring to civilisation rather than specifying either the mainland or Taiwan) is old and there have been periods of political division that created the existence of more than one 'China". For example, the Ming Dynasty existed alongside the Qing Dynasty from 1636 to 1644 but also there have been other periods such as the Three Kingdoms, sixteen kingdoms, southern dynasties, and five dynasties and ten kingdoms where there were many states that represented "China". This piece of history can support both the Taiwan and/or Mainland's China claim. Also Ryan forgot to mention President Carter's speech with important quotes stating "The Govermnent of the United States of America acknowledges the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China," and that "We do not undertake this important step for transient tactical or expedient reasons. In recognizing the People's Republic of China, that it is the single Government of China, we are recognizing simple reality." These events are also part of China's perspective. The history that Ryan mentioned from China's perspective is still relevant but I wish he also included this as well. Also Ryan did not mention this. In 1971, UN Resolution No. 2758 ruled that the PRC had obtained the representation rights and all legal rights originally owned by the ROC in the UN. That means the PRC is China’s only legal govt under international law and is recognized by 181 countries around the world, including the USA. the UN does not recognise Taiwan as a country nor Japan nor the USA, japan and USA do not have an embassy in Taiwan again reinforcing China's position that Taiwan is part of China.
The full name of Taiwan is not Taiwan, but the Taiwan region of the Republic of China. The map of the Republic of China includes the island of Taiwan and the land of the People’s Republic of China. The map of the People’s Republic of China also includes the island of Taiwan, the government of Taiwan and the government of the People’s Republic of China. Both are two governments derived from the Republic of China. Only before 1971, the representative of the Republic of China (Taiwan government) was the legal government status of the entire Chinese nation in the United Nations. After 1971, the People's Republic of China was the legal government status of the entire Chinese nation in the United Nations. Maybe you still can't figure it out, then let's go back to before 1945, what was the relationship between the Chinese Communist government and the national government at that time? Is this a relationship between countries? Answer: no. This is a relationship in which two different regimes in the country compete for the right to rule. Because of the intervention of US warships, the CCP did not unify Taiwan Island, and the Kuomintang government retreated to Taiwan Island. At this moment, the governments on both sides of the strait do not recognize the legitimacy of the other government. There has been no more war, and peace has dragged on until now. Let’s think about it from another angle. If the Chinese government and the Taiwan government have been at war for 77 years from 1946 to 2023, and there are small-scale local wars every year. Then, this year, the Chinese government sent the People’s Liberation Army to attack the Taiwan government again. Do you feel that the CCP government invaded the Taiwan government? Can you say that the People's Republic of China invaded Taiwan? No, will countries all over the world feel that the People's Republic of China has invaded Taiwan? Won't. Because they will only say that the civil war in China has been going on for 77 years, there is no reunification yet, and the war is still going on. Therefore, the government of Taiwan and the government of the People's Republic of China are just two governments whose civil war has dragged on to the present, and the traditional territorial map includes each other. Now the CCP government sends troops to attack the Taiwan government is completely fighting an internal unification war that was not finished 77 years ago. This is an internal affair, which is nothing like a state-to-state war between Ukraine and Russia. Please don't get confused.
another extremely well articulated video. if only we all had the patience, eloquence, and intelligence to properly learn, digest, and explain information like you
Is the author so stupid? Why not mention UN Resolution 2758? The resolution made it clear that the Communist Party of China is the sole legal government of China, replacing all rights and interests of the Kuomintang in the United Nations. At the same time, the Kuomintang was expelled from the United Nations and replaced by the Communist Party. Including the territory of Taiwan is the territory of the Communist Party of China, why the Communist Party failed to occupy Taiwan? Because of US intervention. At that time, the United States was very powerful, and China could not defeat the United States, so it had to compromise.。
So what I got out of this video, assuming all information is correct, is that 97.5% of Taiwan's population today, are descendants of a Warlord who initiated a coupe and a leader of the political party that lost the civil war, whom both decided to flee the country, settle and take over the island of Taiwan. 🤔
This video needs more views. To summarise: The Chinese empire started out small and had it's heyday in the Qing Dynasty. Chinese doctrine said that "it is the law of nature to be inferior to any other "race"". Then China lost a lot of territory for whatever reason (other places also lost territory to China in the first place). Now China calls this "the age of humiliation" because they lost things. Then CCP China says they want to restore their former "Qing glory" days, while other parts of the world have already moved on and don't want to be part of it anymore. But the doctrine still says that parts A, B and C were once part of China and therefore it's the law of nature to reclaim them? Didn´t turned out so well for other places who tried this. As for the Taiwan "issue", many people left China and moved to Taiwan hundreds of years ago, Taiwan (as said in the video) was a minor and unimportant place for the ruling dynasty, be it Qing, Ming etc. to begin with and got much attention. Also another question, those who say "you are Chinese not Taiwanese", how long do you have to live somewhere else to be considered "not Chinese" anymore? I'm not asking about someone who was born in China and then moved abroad, I'm talking about generations. I have family living in both China and Taiwan, moving from TW to CN and the other way around, also not talking about 1-2 years, more like 30-40 years. More and more countries these days are defined by their mindset and ethics rather than their ethnicity, at least the developed ones.
Ryan, I've been a new subscriber for a week or so. You are one of the very best teachers on RUclips. There's a guy who is claiming to "debunk" your analysis of post-modernism, but his delivery is hopelessly bogged down by unnecessary contentiousness, self-promotion, and erudite posturing. You, on the other hand, strike the perfect balance and tone. The clean way you deliver information and context without those flaws is wonderful. May we know something about your own background?
You miss the point that the Taiwanese were initially formed by native Taiwanese(which you mentioned in the video) and immigrants from mainland China (mostly Fujian province). the language Taiwanese is actually Min Nan dialects from FUjian mainland China. So the tie between mainland China and Taiwan is like the UK and the US in the 1700s.
As a side note: The Polynesians came from sea tribes of Taiwan. In reference to this conflict, China has made their intentions clear, they will use any means necessary to force themselves upon Taiwan. As such, Taiwan and any allies have every right to preemptively strike the CCP with any means available.
Coming back to the video a year later, as a Chinese, I would say modern day China does NOT have the right to govern over Taiwan. Their white paper makes claims based on history, but as you stated in the video already, Belle the Chinese the aborigines lived and still live on that island. So using the ccps own argument, this island cannot belong to them. And since the ccp never defeated the kmt on Taiwan they never ruled that island thus they just can’t runify that which was never theirs.
over 95% of Taiwan's population of 23.4 million consists of Han Chinese, while 2.3% are Taiwanese indigenous peoples, rest of them are Minority groups from south china. Ther minorities Chinese and Han Chinese immigranted between 17th - 19th century. The 211 incident happened between the governmen Vs people(included all races in Taiwan), not Han VS indigenous Taiwanese. The Han are often divided into three subgroups: the Hoklo,(From Fujian province), the Hakka, 3.7%(from provinces in South mainland China), and waishengren around 15％ (or "mainlanders" from other provinces of china). So, when you said they refused to speak Taiwanese, Do you mean they should speak Hokkien, Hakka dialect or indigenous people's language only? What exactly is Taiwanese? Most of Taiwan people speak Mandarin with taiwan accent as their mother tongue language. They have same culture as Han Chinese or Minority groups of Chinese in mainland. The meaning of "waishengren" in Mandarin: Wai means"outside", shen: "province" ren: "people". Waishenren are people or people 's parents and grandparents who immigranted to Taiwan after 1945. Even the children born in Taiwan still can be called "waishenren", not "benshenren", because their parents or grandparents immigranted after 1945. Only for those who immigranted before 1945 can call themselves "benshenren"(Local). "Ben" means "origin".This video only go through some part of facts and full of opinions. When you missed some part of facts, you can't see the whole picture.
it was so difficult to find someone from the west who understands and explained the situation so well not in any kind of prejudiced viewpoint. Subscribed.
Excellent video. I think you should've included the foundation of the KMT and the CCP both from the inspirations of Sun Yat Sin after the abdication of the Qing and the transfer of power. Right now the video seems a little incomplete not knowing where the CCP came from. Still a great video. 👍
the philosophy that history is a right to determine the future is a core philosophy that causes nearly all state level conflict in the world. The people that live on the island of Taiwan themselves want to be independent, period. Unless you believe history pre-determines their future.
@@elielee7364 hah Chinese, right? Look, is self-governing and does things independently from the people's republic of China, if The Republic of China (Taiwan) acts independently then it is. And wrong, is recognized by a few countries. Is basically considered a rogue region by the CCP. So next time just say they are revels or something, but they still are basically separated.
@@robert-iv7ly That's actually false. Taiwan's current legal status is that of a part of China. The legality of everything, based partly off of international recognition, is what separates a country from a rogue region. Officially, the vast majority of countries support the PRC as the official ruler of all of China, which matters because whatever authority there is on Taiwan has not declared independence yet. There is no recognition for Taiwan only; the few minor countries that do support "Taiwan" as a country are actually supporting the ROC as the legitimate government of all of China, because the PRC, the stronger party that actually has control over the majority of the mainland, views it as a civil war (which is what the actual status of everything is in) and will break off ties with any country that recognizes the ROC. They will only officially, legally become independent if they change their constitution (which has as an integral part of it the claims that the current government is an inalienable part of China along with land claims that pretty much encompass the Qing dynasty's lands) and announce independence, yet no authority on Taiwan seems to be willing to do that for the time being. So you're wrong. "Taiwan" is not independent, nor is the ROC, (by their own admission!) until they make those two changes. It doesn't matter if a separate government rules them, it doesn't matter if they have their own currency, none of the things you listed as supposed "evidence" matters. Officially, legally, on the international stage, they are not an independent country. Of course, they can try to do those two things, but then the civil war would officially resume and the mainland would have the right to actually move in and take it back.
@@robert-iv7ly as a Chinese I have to say that this video really makes some senses and make me clear about a lot of things. But I still want to point out that although there are native people who live on that island long time ago, Taiwanese population is still majorly originated from mainland China. I do sense that the people in Taiwan have this impression of being suppressed by colonists but just as stated in this video. Main land Chinese people have, if not more, equal right to achieve what we believe in. If you say that you respect the will of the people who live on the island, then how about 1.5 billion people's will across the channel? At least to my knowledge, most Chinese people including me have this notion of, sort of like, "make China great again" and most of them are looking forward to the unification. And towards the points of Chinese government showing off muscles, I do want to admit that it is true. However I want to add some facts of the disgusting politicians who play an horrible role in Taiwan and America such as Nancy Pelosi. She, as an in-office government official, visiting Taiwan, which is a country not officially recognized by US government is an unnecessary and purely evil action. Also this is the direct cause of this recent military drill. Here is my own opinion on this matter. I think my best hope on this matter is that as the economic power and personal freedom of Mainland Chinnese people grows, the Taiwanese people would see that maybe reunification peacefully wouldn't be so bad. (in fact you can check Hongkong as an example, life in Hongkong, legislatively, is still very different from life in mainland). Unfortunately, populists in both Taiwan and America consistently poke CCP, even they know very well this is the bottom lines of my country, so I think the peaceful resolve on this matter is more and more unlikely...
@@xiaogezhang126 Why would anyone on earth except Taiwanese have a say about Taiwan? Mainland 1.5 billion people don’t have a say nor the US and the rest of the world. We live in the 21st century bro. Only Taiwanese should decide who they belong to.
You are so spot on about the old history of China, that's a burden as well since you can always find all kind of historical precedents to judge the action taken by the governments on each side of the strait : looking back in history, China always prosper during unification & suffer during separation, and even the concequence of a military movement would be considered as tolerable as when you put that in the thousands year of history, that's nothing. If Xi wants to be remembered as a great leader in history, as he claimed to be, there is no other better achievement currently than taking back Taiwan. So in a way that's inevitable & people needs to prepare for that.
You made it very clear that legally Taiwan is China's territory, but China is still in a state of civil war with a physical ceasefire, and the claim that Taiwan is a sovereign state is just an emotional product, they want to do it, but haven't done it, or don't dare to do it, and I find it very strange that, You don't even realize that those who support Taiwan independence even violate the constitution of the Republic of China. In my opinion, Taiwan independence and those who support Taiwan independence can only be described in one sentence: after saying a lie a thousand times, they take it seriously
@@LyuChen94 Not quite, the RoC is still a sovereign state which has full control of over the island of Taiwan, it just does not have the political capital to drop their de-jure territorial claims over China.
@@ygthemoth9425 The Republic of China controls not only Taiwan Island, Diaoyu Island, Penghu Island and other affiliated islands in China's Taiwan Province, but also two islands in Fujian Province (Kinmen and Matsu), Dongsha Islands in Guangdong Province, and affiliated islands in Nansha Islands in Hainan Province (Taiping Island). Taiwan's Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), as a party that has written Taiwan independence into its platform, It is not that it does not have the political capital to achieve Taiwan independence, but that it does not have the military capital. If it wants to amend the constitution, its seats in the legislature can support it to pass the constitutional amendment, but it does not dare to do so
Chinese think of Taiwan as a satellite territory of an ancient civilization rooted on the mainland. Taiwanese think of Taiwan as the epicenter of a localized perspective of history. Both are forms of national myth making. How true any of these are doesn’t really matter. Myth making is all national identity is: the stories we tell ourselves about our identity and relative place in the world. But it does shed some light on the difference of perspectives
@@Squared_Table Absolutely. Taiwan's future will ultimately be determined by China's relationship with SEA neighbors and US-China relations. Independence is only ever given to those who are capable of keeping it. Everything else is pretext
Pretty unbiased as things go. I kinda wished that you touched the security side of things like how vital it is for sea traffic of the first island chain and it being like Kaliningrad.
There is no such thing as "security". US allies securing the sea lane means China is under threat. China securing the sea lane means Japan, SK, etc are under threat. There is no security, only control.
Very balanced and informative work! One thing added is about the Demographics of Taiwan quoted from Wikipedia. The population of Taiwan is approximately 23.30 million as of January 2023. Immigration of Han Chinese to the Penghu islands started as early as the 13th century, while settlement of the main island occurred from the 16th century during the Ming-Qing transition. Further immigration occurred when workers were imported from Fujian in the 17th century. According to governmental statistics, in the early 21st century, 95% to 97% of Taiwan's population are Han Chinese, while about 2.3% are Taiwanese of Austronesian ethnicity.[1][2] Half the population are followers of one or a mixture of 25 recognized religions. During the 20th century, the population of Taiwan rose more than sevenfold, from about 3 million in 1905 to more than 22 million by 2001. This high growth was caused by a combination of factors, such as very high fertility rates up to the 1960s, and low mortality rates.[citation needed] In addition, there was a surge in population as the Chinese Civil War ended and the Kuomintang (KMT) forces retreated, bringing an influx of 1.2 million soldiers and civilians to Taiwan in 1948-1949, representing less than 15% of the population at the time (who constitute approximately 10% of the population in 2004[3]).[4][2][5] Consequently, the population growth rate after that was very rapid, especially in the late 1940s and 1950s, with an effective annual growth rate as high as 3.68% during 1951-1956. Fertility rates decreased gradually thereafter; in 1984 the rate reached the replacement level (2.1 children per woman, which is needed to replace the existing population). Fertility rates have continued to decline. In 2010, Taiwan had a population growth of less than 0.2% and a fertility rate of only 0.9, the lowest rate ever recorded in that country. The population of Taiwan peaked at 23.6 million in 2019 and has been continuously decreasing ever since. Most Taiwanese speak Mandarin.
Wow. I just have to say this was a very very good video. It was informative, free from bias, presented all sides, and you had a calm demeanor free from emotion. You simply presented all the facts and let the audience form their own opinion rather than force an agenda onto them. I just subscribed. Thank you so much for making this and I look forward to more great vids!
Again a great analysis! Thank you. I’m sure that Taiwan’s narrative is definitely more appealing to the western audience, but I’d say it can also be told on most parts of the world. Scholars across the Taiwan straights have been arguing the legitimacy of each sides for decades, yet they couldn’t reach an agreement. I felt all the words have been said, and only the ruthless reality can settle this. One thing you missed though is that US has played an important role in this matter - a much more important one than Taiwan itself. Just like you said, people living in Taiwan have been powerless in a greater geopolitical game, and this still holds true today. I just hope this can be resolved peacefully.
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Thank you to everyone who supports these projects on Patreon. I wouldn't be able to devote so much time and so many resources to one video otherwise. I'm trying to make the best work I can and the donations really do make it possible. If you'd like to chip in and support me, check out www.patreon.com/rchapman. Video notes below.
I've seen a number of commenters who believe that I crucially left out some details about the cultural and ethnic ties between Taiwan and mainland China. Mainly two details: 1) clarifying that Taiwanese isn't an entirely original language, but instead a dialect from Fujian province (they do call it Taiwanese in Taiwan, so I stuck with their language when telling their side of the story), and 2) stressing the high proportion of ethic Chinese people living in Taiwan. That's fine, if you want to call attention to those facts, but I didn't consider them essential for this video because they don't fundamentally change the arguments from either side. Taiwan's independence argument doesn't weaken because of ethnic and cultural ties to China. China's claim to Taiwan doesn't strengthen either. If you think those details do give China a legitimate claim to Taiwan (against the will of the overwhelming majority of people living there) then you're arriving at something like 'we own you through your blood,' since the shared ethnicity seems to be the pillar of that claim. That's not something I saw my Chinese sources claiming, and that's also obviously something the Taiwanese side didn't say either. Perhaps I should have presented them here anyway since they seem important to Chinese audiences, but again they don't fundamentally change the logic from either side.
Many of those who stressed the ethnic ties between Taiwan and China went on to say people in Taiwan are rallying around a Taiwanese identity because they're being propagandized by their government in the education system. I think that's a fair point to get into, but if you want to cover the subject in a balanced way, you'd also have to look at how China's government propagandizes and controls their citizens too. The reality is Chinese people are among the most heavily propagandized and controlled in the world. Taiwan is one of the places with the freest speech (and freest access to information) in the world, and China is one of the places with the most controlled speech and most controlled access to information in the world. Look at any free speech index and it will tell you that. The Chinese government employs massive boroughs of people for the sole purpose of propagandizing and controlling its citizens (look up the 'Golden Shield' for example). So again, I could have covered that side of the subject, but it seems like virtually everyone making those arguments were sympathetic to China's side, and I don't think they'd be happy seeing balanced coverage of that.
On that note, this video only covered China's official position on Taiwan. Since there isn't free speech in China, this is pretty much how everyone covers it. In places like Taiwan, it's easier to make distinctions between public thought and official thought. You can poll people or just point to public backlashes against official positions. In China, widespread expression of dissent from official thought (like the Sunflower Movement in Taiwan) is rarely allowed, so we're mostly left with pointing at official thought. That all being said, I don't think there's reason to believe that the public in China doesn't more or less support or believe the official position laid out here.
Last note - many think this video tried to create the impression that Taiwan is mostly made up of aborigines, and I'm not sure who would watch this video and actually think that. As I kept talking about Taiwan being colonized by various powers, and even the KMT moving there as an entire party, I assumed people understood (and knew, even by common sense) that the aborigines eventually became a small minority there. I didn't think that was something that needed to be explicitly said, and ultimately I try to trust the intelligence of the viewer and avoid stating the obvious if I can.
- Ryan
@ Ryan Chapman At 11:17 you say that China's show of force wouldn't be necessary if she had a legitimate claim on Taiwan. I don't think that's necessarily true. There are plenty of examples where civil unrest is quietened down with shows of force, but without violence. That was a slightly, if unintentionally, biased statement.
I'm still not 100% sure which way I think is correct. Separate, or unified.
A very interesting report, though. Good work. Thank you.
Change this video's title back to, "How do China and Taiwan see each other?"
-'cause it made me think, "through squinted eyes?"
😂
I'm from Taiwan, which is actually a colony of the United States. The media and education here are controlled and make us hate our fellow Chinese. Government officials are US puppets and have to report to US every election. We will return to China and be an equal Chinese. We are not pawns of the United States against our motherland, and we will not be sacrificed for American interests.
Much of your analysis is wrong. Actually democratization was forced by the United States. This is why the US advocates democracy in small countries all over the world, because it can prop up its own puppets. Since the democratization of Taiwan, every president has to report to the United States. He represents the interests of the United States, not Taiwan. Why are you afraid to talk about American influence in your video? Isn't it freedom of speech?
Proof that Breadtube serves Imperialism
fun fact: Mainland and Taiwan are still in war status, there is no any Armistice agreement signed by both parties since the civil war began. Seems few people aware this.
No, the Chicoms and the KMT are involved in the Chinese civil war. You can have the KMT back. Taiwan is not China.
Yep and therefore, any fighting is fair game. Also another thing people do not mention is that the so-called "Taiwanese air space" has a large portion that goes directly into the mainland Chinese airspace and overlaps. So all these reports about China going into Taiwans airspace to intimidate them is mostly China staying within their own designated airspace
@@MsKateC2K China violated Taiwan's sovereignty in hunting down a Chinese rebel regime - the KMT. The same act of aggression as the US hunting down Al Qaeda by invading Afghanistan.
And still trading to each other
So are north and South Korea technically but it’s not like the Korean War is ongoing
The “aboriginals” consist only 3% of the population of the island, what we call Taiwanese are indeed ethnic Chinese migrated from the mainland by various of waves
Yes.But there's another thing to point out.
During the Qin dynasty, only men were allowed to come to Taiwan. Many of them therefore choose to marry with aboriginal wife.
Technically the majority or han people in taiwan are the mix of both.
@@willylin8046 This point was a myth created for political reason. According to history records, the policy forbidding women crossing the strait was only performed intermittently and shortly. During such period, men came to Taiwan to earn a fortune and went back home to marry a wife. The Qing government had very strict law to forbid intermarriage of Han Chinese and aborigines. Any such marriage found would be fined and divorced. The reason was to protect the properties owned by aborigines, otherwise, all land properties would be owned by the stronger Chinese through marriage.
In fact, the genes of the Taiwanese Han people are closer to the Hokkian\ Hakka people in Fujian and Guangdong, and their Austronesian Indigenous people ancestry has been exaggerated. The Taiwanese Han people have obvious differences in appearance from the indigenous people but still similar to the Hokkian. This situation is similar to how Eurasians carrying 2-4% of Neanderthal genes are widely described as descendants of Neanderthals.This is due to political considerations.@@willylin8046
@@timyangcc
You are right about forbidding Han marrying aboriginal women.
Qin government wanted to protect aboriginal people properties.
But in reality, Han male eventually married to local females, and after generations, there are all mixed. We call our self “ 平埔族群”, the majority residents in Taiwan now
Less than 3%
This narrator did not mention that around 1895-1900 Japanese military in Taiwan killed about 300 thousand Taiwanese when the islanders resisted the occupation by Japan. At that time, there were about 3 million population. That means about 1 in 10 population was killed. During WW-II US airplanes bombarded Taiwan and killed about 5 thousands civilians.
The most disaster happened in Taiwan at that time is the Japanese invasion and occupation They killed millions of people in Taiwan brutally when they resisted. Numerous head-chops and rapes were committed by the Japanese at that time.
The narrator isn’t that smart
I doubt they were educated about this at school
As tragic is this was, it wasn't that important for the story. He mentioned that the Japanese attempted to conquer the native people, and they fought back, giving the Japanese a bloody nose. Anyone who paid attention would have known the Japanese weren't just a happy friendly force for good and business and some war/conflict went down.
You people do not contradict the video's messages, simply adding to it. I dont think the majority of the audience here has a favourable view of Imperial Japan and can fill in the blanks anyway. And the narrator specifically framed everything before the 90's as colonization and domination (including Japan).
I am sure to many indigenous Taiwanese this situation is still not ideal but we dont need to pretend that because we know something that wasnt mentioned in the video, that the video is stupid unless you want a video that goes all the way back to the Zhou covering every piece of Chinese history trivia or some shit.
下次你们应该慢慢看😂
@@emperorarima3225 "you people?" 🤨
Overall, a great unbiased explanation of the Taiwan problem. I have just one thing to point out: majority of Taiwan people today came from China mainland, not those natives.
And another fact that Taiwan's economic achievements cannot have been achieved without the huge wealth taken from the mainland during KMT retreat to Taiwan
@@JW-ph8kw Source? Singapore did extremely well with nothing.
@@johkupohkuxd1697 Check the documents. Huge amount of gold, treasures and highly educated manpower were brought from Mia land China to Taiwan by Jiang Jie Shi. By the way, the US also provided lots of resources for support after 1949 because US thought GMT was a leverage to restrain the communist China.
The majority of people in Taiwan came from China long before WW2. The newer immigrants who came over with KMT make up less than 15% of the island.
@@vinamiu7257 Are you somehow suggesting that the USA didn't provide support to the ROC before 1949? You know when the CCP was hiding out in Yan'an and the KMT and the USA were fighting to liberate Asia sovereign states from the empire of Japan
Wow, that phrase: ... highly educated manpower were brought from mainland China to Taiwan by Jiang Jieshi" as if those citizens ought not to have any agency nor choice in where they were allowed to escape to.
It should be mentioned that under the current Constitution of the Republic of China (ROC), both the mainland and Taiwan are part of ROC. Before 1971, ROC represented the whole China in UN, while PRC took over thereafter.
Yes, the constitution of the colonial government brought over by KMT, which was written without participation of Taiwanese.
@@avatarxs 95-97% of Taiwan are Han Chinese 😂
2.3% are Taiwanese of Austronesian ethnicity
@@avatarxsThe so called Taiwanese that your talking about are still the same people that fled from mainland China
@@sharwama992 uhm, my ancestors left during the Ming dynasty, that is, before even the Qing dynasty.
so no, we don't really consider ourselves anymore chinese than americans think of themselves as british really
@@sebastian192 The civil war not ended, no peace treaty signed nor declaration of independence from Imperial Japan.
As a Taiwanese thank you for the time and effort to make this video.
Few Westerners can understand the complex relationship between Taiwan and China in such a detailed and correct way.
If foreigners ask about this, I will recommend them to watch this video.😀
Long long ago
correct way?
lots of info. here are skewed.
You are not "Taiwanese". That identity is a myth, like "transwomen". You are in fact Chinese.
@@iamthe1234567890 "That's what Xi said" 😅
@@reee1397 lol obviously I'm not that guy. And I've lived outside China since I was a child, but I'm just saying. I'd have to side with the mainland position on this. Tbf, the worst that would happen in most people's lives after the CCP takes control would be being blocked off from the rest of the Internet without vpn. I live in a "rich" Western "democracy" where millions have to rely on charity food banks so they don't go hungry and go into debt to heat their house, so even "moderate common prosperity" would sound like paradise to a lot of people.
You failed to mention that Republic of China (aka Taiwan) also officially claim Mainland China and Taiwan are all part of them. (ROC also claim Mongolia and other small territory, you could find some videos on RUclips.)
💯
The Constitution of the Republic of China claims the entire China as its territory. But that constitution was ratified on 1947, which was long time ago. Today, nearly no one in Taiwan would claim Mainland China and Mongolia because it's not practical. The Constitution should be amended, but it will piss China off if Taiwanese dare to do so, which gives China the excuse to invade immediately.
The ROC no longer claims Mongolia as its territory since 2002. Some information just needs to be updated.
Also Tuva in Russia. In Chinese called Tang Nu Wu Liang Hai
It's not "failed"! He ignored this part of information on purpose.
One correction, he mentioned several times about native people, foreign colonialists. Sounds majority people are aboriginal and were fighting foreign colonialists all the time. But actually there are only 2.3% indigenous people (see wiki), more than 95% people are Han who come from mainland China long times ago, far far ago than Dutch. And there’s no local new language, it’s a direct of Fujian local language since Fujian province governs Taiwan area previously.
Also, need to mention that the constitution of Republic of China mentions the nation includes mainland and Taiwan, and Taiwan is inside Fujian Province, which hasn’t been officially changed yet, so it is still official valid in Taiwan.
what you mentioned are mostly correct, except Taiwan is not inside Fujian province. Taiwan has been a province sonce the Qing dynasty.
@@user-zcm379RenJiTang He is right, Taiwan became a province in 1887 but was abolished in 1895. Then Taiwan was colonized by Japan until the end of WW2.
Thanks~
Large scale Fujianese and other Chinese immigration to Taiwan dates only to the Dutch period (as labor) and mostly to the activities of the Sino-Japanese pirate, Koxinga. Koxinga's brief dynasty only ruled a tiny area in SW Taiwan, less than a fifth the size of the island. Maybe read something other than CCP propaganda to learn history.
@@erikjohnson9223while op couldve worded it better, arent you two saying the exact same thing???
This video is good for explaining the documented history of the conflict between China and Taiwan, but a lot of underlying geopolitical factors are missing.
US also plays an important role in the China-Taiwan confict. US has a huge interest building millitary and economic bonds with Taiwan since 1950s. The reasons are: 1. Taiwan can be used to contain the growth of communist China, the country deemed to be a threat as soon as its inception. 2. A prosperous weathly capitalist Taiwan will shake the confidence in communist in mainland China. Meanwhile, the Chinese leaders are extremely worried about the influence of the US. They cannot afford Taiwan to be independent and import US weapons, even build US military base. For Taiwanese, most want to side with the US because Taiwan is westernized pretty well. On the other hand, mainland China is giving out political favors (trade deals, business opportunities) and also threatening a war for Taiwan to not pick a side.
The bottomline is, what seems to be the conflict between China and Taiwan is actually the conflict between China and the US. Every time when the China-US relationship worsens, Taiwan makes the news.
The US sees Taiwan as her unsinkable aircraft carrier in her possible with mainland China.
Ccp has to be grateful to USA. Until USA allowed it into the trade network and eventually, WTO and WHO China economy as entire country was nothing compared to Taiwan. Even giving CCP China a permanent seat on the board of United Nations. USA wanted to give China the means to modernize in hopes the Chinese people would promote Democracy just like they did in Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan. communist China have killed more Chineses when any invading country in it history. Chinese fleeing the CCP have created success in Singapore, Indonesia, Taiwan, South Vietnam(when it existed). So the problem is at the core the CCP government that initially wanted to wipe and destroy all ancient and old Chinese history ( Destruction of Four Olds Campaign by Mao) now trying to use that same history to exert control at any means, at any cost to it own citizens.
USA is not scare if there is fair economic competition…look at Japan in 1980s….top companies and most expensive places, golf course, hotels, were in Japan not New York.
This is the clear underlying reason, yet one that neither side is willing to openly admit. Based.
The USA & UK had systematically engineered the “conflict” btwn Taiwan & China for 75yrs by US military backed totalitarian brutal regime since WW2 for a future war event to carry out AmeriKKKan imperialist objective
From what i have gone through, Tsai is the one who identifies herself as both Chinese and Taiwanese. When she was young, she referred herself to being a chinese with a shift to Taiwanese now. Generally, Elder generation refer themselves to be chiense while the younger refer themselves to be Taiwanese. Besides the media, the political system and the history, the education has played a very important role here.
From what i understood, Taiwan is de facto independent as a part of Republic of China but also a part of People's republic China. I mean both parts are reasonable, but China will not give up the possibility to reunite (if it gives up, there is no way to claim it back). It would be wise of the US not to provoke and use Taiwan as a political instrument too much to stir the status quo. It is risky and also gives China the opportunity to move the line forward. anyway thanks for your video.
One China policy makes Tsai Treasonous
@@suekis2903 Taiwan is not independent as long as it is part of ROC. If they want to gain independent, they will be gaining independences from ROC. Taiwan is not just Taiwan. The offshore islands as the people in Taiwan called, they do not like to be called Taiwanese.
In Taiwan, you are Chinese before you become the president , after that you’re Taiwanese! XD
Looking at it as a Chinese, Taiwan and the mainland were previously fighting over who was really China, and then the title of China was replaced by the mainland, and Taiwan's native consciousness gradually awakened. Because of the political system, Taiwan could not accept reunification with the authoritarian mainland, but could not break away from the "Republic of China" China relationship, so in order to differentiate, it had to call itself Taiwanese.
1 correction for the video(17:23), giving Outer Mongolia to the Soviets was a deal made by Chiang Kai Shack and the Soviets, not Mao. Chiang wanted to do so to make CCP lose help from the Soviets. ROC declared Outer Mongolia independence on 19460105
This is patently untrue. ROC today still formally claims Mongolia as part of ROC and also Tuva, a republic in today's Russia. This is still in the ROC constitution.
@@tweedy4sg it’s them who signed that contract with Soviet to give up outer Mongolia right before wwii ended, it’s also them who disagree what the results which is based on that contract….they allowed the independence situation first and regret it afterwards, worst part is they knew what they signed and felt guilty for it 😑
@@tweedy4sg those dam fk roc signed the shitty paper to give up Outer Mongolia. If you sold you house, it is no longer your and no matter how you described it. Much dam ROC.
Well, because Soviet didn't bother to honour their part of the bargain too,unless you think this move is done right under charity or intimidation.
bot
Dude! I’ve watched a lot of videos about the history and relationship between the two countries...a lot (and have lived in both). This is probably the most well balanced, non-emotional , non-partisan, fact-based explanation of the issue. Once again, you prove to have a level head and no agenda other than dissemination of the facts. Thank you, sir. We need more tubers like you out there.
Well said
over 95% of Taiwan's population of 23.4 million consists of Han Chinese, while 2.3% are Taiwanese indigenous peoples, rest of them are Minority groups from south china. The minorities Chinese and Han Chinese immigranted between 17th - 19th century. The 211 incident happened between the governmen Vs people(included all races in Taiwan), not Han VS indigenous Taiwanese. The Han are often divided into three subgroups: the Hoklo,(From Fujian province), the Hakka, 3.7%(from provinces in South mainland China), and waishengren around 15%(or "mainlanders" from other provinces of china). So, when he said they refused to speak Taiwanese, Does he means they should speak Hokkien, Hakka dialect or indigenous people's language only? What exactly is Taiwanese? Most of Taiwan people speak Mandarin with taiwan accent as their mother tongue language. They have same culture as Han Chinese or Minority groups of Chinese in mainland. The meaning of "waishengren" in Mandarin: Wai means"outside", shen: "province" ren: "people". Waishenren are people or people 's parents and grandparents who immigranted to Taiwan after 1945. Even the children born in Taiwan still can be called "waishenren", not "benshenren", because their parents or grandparents immigranted after 1945. Only for those who immigranted before 1945 can call themselves "benshenren"(Local). "Ben" means "origin". This video go through some part of fact only. When you missed some part of fact, you can't see the whole picture.
Except Taiwan's government is the legal inheritor of China's legitimate government usurped by the CCP.
@@StrawHat83 but the Taiwan government doesn’t want to be the real China any more.
@@reigak6599 The Taiwan people don't want to be part of one-party rule. Taiwan is the real China.
Thank you Ryan, this is much more balanced than what's out there & proves that most of the so called "China Watchers" who talk about Taiwan haven't even done 1/100th the amount of research you've done on the complexity of this issue.
As someone from Taiwan who used to be pro independence but am now pro-unification (yes yes I'm in minority), I'll say this:
1) most countries recognize China's position on Taiwan; what's happened is that the US is now using Taiwan as leverage against China (divide & conquer strategy) & a place to sell used crappy weapons at a great price, but also the US suddenly woke up & realized it couldn't risk Chinese gaining control of semiconductors; the US does not really believe in any of this freedom & democracy nonsense. The US still recognizes the One China principle, and if it doesn't, it should come out and say so directly.
2) I personally think China's claim to Taiwan is much stronger than Japan's claim to Okinawa (aka Ryukyu) & US claim to Hawaii. If we want to challenge their claim, how about we look at how hypocritical we are with our own claims on land annexed by us.
3) taiwanese identity is complex - we are like 97% han chinese. After i started working in the mainland, even visiting ancestral home, and realizing how culturally connected we are to China, i think it's a complete joke for us to think that we are somehow not Chinese. The Chinese I've met in Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, basically everywhere else don't have an issue with identifying as Chinese, yet I feel now that the TW govt (w/ US & Japanese psy-ops help) is trying to brainwash this identity away. My sense of Chinese identity has only gotten stronger now that I've been seeing so much anti Chinese racism expressed by Americans, telling me to go back to my country & calling me a Chinese [epithet].
Most Americans probably can't even find Taiwan on a map.
So yes, I look forward to Taiwan going back to China, and I think it's pretty inevitable anyway.
U are just stupid. Connected with Chinese people doesn’t mean it is to their gov. While I agreed that I feel the same when I talk to Chinese people, I felt we are the same family. However the ruler is diff, it’s fucking ccp. Taiwan will die just like how Hong Kong if it reunited. You’re basically trashing ur home for asking for reunification to CCP. I would agree for Reunification if China is democratic.
1) China wants to take Taiwan in order to establish its dominance in the Pacific. They also view the island as leverage against the US, the only difference is they wouldn't let the Taiwanese govern themselves.
2) Whataboutism argument.
3) Doesn't matter if the people don't wanna be ruled by a dictatorial one party state that is communist.
You look forward to war erupting in Taiwan by Chinese agression?
@@dimitaru.8408
Are you Taiwanese or do you live in Taiwan? You should talk to people who actually live here
1. If you were actually able to read Chinese, it's less about strategic value than about righting a historical wrong.
2. Whataboutism? Cheap cop-out that doesnt address pure American hypocrisy. Literally America's #1 export
3. Taiwan isn't a democracy. We literally shut down a KMT-affiliated TV station and actively cancel people who are pro China or pro-unification, subject them to harassment, fines, even jailtime. Everyone here knows DPP corrupt as hell and have lotsa $$$ in mainland and $$$$ in the US.
Very well said.👏👏. The real TaIwanese are the indigenous people of Taiwan. They are less than 10% of the population. There are many Japanese disguised as Chinese. After Taiwan was returned to China thousands of Japanese remained in Taiwan & changed their names to Chinese names. The current President of Taiwan (Tsai Ing-Wen) is Japanese. She wants Taiwan to be independent so that with the help of the US, Taiwan will be returned to Japan. You must get rid of her at the next election
@@dimitaru.8408 CIA TROLL
You ignored a simpler reason why the aborigines held on to Eastern Taiwan against the colonialists. It's less to do with being hard core and more to do with simple geography. It's hard to build anything where typhoons hit all the time. Taiwan's center is all mountains, providing a natural barrier against them, which is why over 95% of Taiwans population lives on the west coast.
That's the explanation I saw researching this too, but balanced against their tenacity to defend their territory against the colonialists. Geography alone doesn't explain why the aborigines held the east for so long, especially against an industrialized power like Japan.
@@realryanchapman 75 plus years post Japanese occupation has seen very little change in development of the East coast. Taiwan has had at least 1 typhoon either make landfall or graze it in 55 out of the last 56 years. Most areas of the world where hurricanes/typhoons hit are flat. Taiwan being 90% mountainous/hilly topology equates to mudslides in areas overly farmed or developed when typhoons hit.. These are far more dangerous than just heavy wind and rain. The simple fact is that these mudslides are far more prevalent on its East side. Geography is by far and away the biggest factor in why 23 out of 24 million live on the west side of the island.
@@kevinsiu4956 Right, but the question isn't 'why do most people live on the west side of Taiwan,' the question is 'why didn't these powerful colonial powers (like the Qing and Japanese) establish governance over the entire island of Taiwan for hundreds of years?' Geography is part of the answer, but imposing geography didn't prevent colonial powers elsewhere in the world from controlling the entire territory that they set out to control. The Qing and Japanese both tried to take the east from the aborigines and failed due to fierce resistance.
@@realryanchapman The answer to why most people live on the west coast does at least partially answer why the colonial powers failed to establish total control. Lack of incentive. Look at a map of Taiwan and you'll notice there's very little flat coastal land area on the east side. What little there is only goes 5 to 10 miles inland before you're right up against mountains. The east coast of Taiwan is nicknamed the landslide capital of the world.
@@realryanchapman Similar situation is with Hawaii eastern side (all islands). Although no typhoons, it rains all the time.
Ryan is making the topic like Taiwan Aboriginals fighting for independence, well they only account for like
It's also interesting to notice that the Taiwanese aboriginals are actually much more pro status quo and even pro unification some times compared to the rest of the population in Taiwan, Why? because they actually think the rest of the "outsider" STEAL Taiwan from them, so they would rather ally with the "enemy" :p.
if you kept brainwash since you are an infant, of course you will change their view.
Actually Taiwan before US Sun flower coup in 2014...around end of 2000-2014 a lot had started shifted their view because Taiwan government see at the end of 2000, China rise is like no other country. Also more and more Taiwanese went to Mainland to work or to start business or even live.
KMT government started to talk with the CPC Mainland. However, this was used by opposition to do sun flower coup that was also funded by US. Once DPP rule Taiwan in 2014, all voices that support reunification or status quo are actually silence. Couple media were shut by Tsai and DPP. School history lesson extremely change. If before 2000, their history lesson taught ancient China. During DPP rules, everyone were taught their history start in 1949. That is why newer generation always think they are "Taiwanese" some even believe they may not even have any Han Chinese DNA anymore, which definitely a joke! When most of Taiwanese actually lived in Taiwan started in 1949. Before that, they were all mainlanders!
So you think American are British and should be unified with the UK?
@@test-pn3ex difference is Britain and America are miles apart
@@yanakal652 Taiwan and China are miles apart as well. Google it.
International politics is based on national interests. Just as the United States would not allow a Soviet military presence in Cuba, just as it does today with the Russo-Ukrainian war. This is the reality of international politics, no matter how righteous the narrative behind it may be.
My friend, the so-called "Taiwanese language" is actually the Fujianese Min-nan dialect. It's exactly the same dialect spoken by the same Min-nan people across the Taiwan Straits. One can't tell the difference between the dialect spoken in Taipei & that spoken in Xiamen, China. The 2 main groups in Taiwan, the Min-nanese & the Hakka, migrated from Fujian & Guangdong a few centuries ago.
Taiwanese try hard to convince others believe that taiwan is country and taiwan has their language min-nan dialect.
They want to create the " truth" to prove that Mainland China is lying.
Hokkien is one of the language my grandfather speaks and it is from the Southern Min. thanks for more info.
Basically, people in both Taiwan & Mainland China can speak the same language and understand each other. The so called Taiwanese language is basically a combination of Fukien and Quandong dialects. China has over hundreds of different dialects, but the majority ( or official ) one is called Pu Tung Hua. Pu Tung Hua means common and general language. The writing in Mainland China is the simplified Chinese characters while in Taiwan, Hong Kong etc. is the Traditional Chinese characters. Most Chinese people (except some) can understand both types of characters.
06:20 so the Taiwanese referred to here was Southern Min language?
What about the Formosan languages?
Americans and British speak the same language but in the colonies they realized that their values and interests were different and thus separated. Just because two populations speak similar or even the exact same language means nothing towards their destinies.
The party Ryan mentioned that ruled China and took over Taiwan from Japan after WWII, the KuoMin-Tang, literally translates to the "Citizen Party", is usually referred to by historians as the "nationalist" (vs the communist). This nationalist party is now a minority party in Taiwan on the national level, but recently won by a huge margin a local election for mayors and city councils.
40 percent is not minority,
Definitely not minority.
Taiwan is a two-party system. Which means it is mainly composed of two parties. That is, the DPP and the KMT.
@@forbiddenchannel4901 by the US standards, the KMT is the minority, simply because it's not the majority in the Legislative Yuan (like the house of reps in the US). The DPP is in power and holds the majority of seats in the Legislative Yuan. Therefore, the KMT is the current minority party in Taiwan. I'm not talking about a statistical or purely linguistic definition of the word here.
Funny how KMT is now the one party in Taiwan that has good relations with the Xi God. the CPC and KMT used to be dire enemies.
Last thing I would add the Taiwan population mix which 90% are originally ancestry from China. And they don’t speak Taiwanese, they are actually speak Fujianese which one of Chinese dialect in southeastern China.
Agree. There is no such language called "Taiwanese". There isnt a language called American, Australian or Canadian, but English.
@cometjetter不要拿美国 澳大利亚 加拿大举例，他们屠杀了当地的土著人，抢夺了他们的土地，按照你这样的逻辑，也就没有必要进行讨论了，直接打仗就可以了，把反对的人都杀死
Norway has been in Union with both Denmark and Sweden throughout our history. We speak a very similar language. Domestic dialects can sometimes be harder to understand than Swedish and Danish. In Chinese logic we're not really an independent country, we just confused Danes or Swedes.
@@aksbeixhev There is something wrong with your logic. If you Norway, Denmark and Sweden were one kingdom hundreds of years ago, you were one race and spoke a similar language, you could say that your ancestors were all Vikings or Germans and so on. But it's not the same as whether you are independent countries or not. Because you recognize each other as different countries, and the international community also recognizes you as different countries. But Taiwan is just the name of the island, not the name of one country. Most of the people living on the island are Chinese Han people, who have continuously migrated from the mainland in the past two thousand years. We have the same language and the same race, and the constitution (whether it is the Republic of China or the People's Republic of China) clearly states that Taiwan Island is a part of China
@@_42_unknown16 do you know people used to call Netherland with just Holland for a very long time, until their government told people not to call them Holland anymore? Holland is also just a province of Netherland but people know that they are referring to the same country. Just like we all know who Bill Gates is but don't know his full name is William Henry Gates III.
63, born and live in Taiwan my whole life. What Ryan says is fact based, quality presentation. Bravo!
Fun facts: Taiwan still uses mainland city names to name its navy ships; in their constitution the legit capital of Taiwan is still Nanjing, which is now the capital of Jiansu province of China. Taipei is only a temporary capital according to Taiwan regime.
Probably because they know eventually the mainlanders will come to their senses and overthrow the CCP, then unification can happen. When China is a true democracy.
'Taipei is only a temporary capital according to Taiwan regime'
This part is only true in pre-2000 in KMT ruling periods.
@@Shakespear1112but history is important.
Being Taiwanese, I have always failed to tell the stories without strong emotional attachment. Thank you for making this super informative and historically accurate video! I finally kinda understand where China is coming from lol. It feels very hopeless these days, but you put it beautifully: in taiwanese’s people’s mind, we’re tired from being claimed by foreign powers again and again. we want to be seen by the world as we are and treated with respect.
But why do you see China as a foreign power?
@@larrydavid5260 because it is, Taiwan is not part of PROC but ROC, and now Taiwan wants to be just Taiwan, so they can get rid of the "C" (China) in that ROC and PROC
it's not foreign though. both prc and roc are literally part of the chinese nation hence the "china" in their official names. for as long as taiwan are han chinese majority, "taiwanese" will always share some of the stigma with mainland chinese. you're feeling helpless because of good asian, bad asian syndrome.
@@larrydavid5260 How funny! Taiwanese see China as a foreign country but China insists it's not.
@@deadbydaylight3168 Using that one word “China” to suggest that they are automatically one nation isn’t logical. The United States of America and “the Americas” both have “America” in the name, but one is a country and the other term refers to a large region full of many different countries and cultures, and it doesn’t mean that they should become the same thing. Also, countries could call themselves whatever they want, but ultimately what matters is what the people want for themselves. If Taiwanese people now see themselves as unique and separate, who is China to argue with them? That makes China an aggressor and coercer.
Also why does it matter if both countries are majority Han Chinese? The US is full of people with British ancestry and we were once a British territory, but I think everyone would be outraged if British MPs started calling on “reunification” with the US. The PRC has so much to feel proud of without becoming a warhawk and stirring up global conflict. American governments have already caused enough trouble with the Middle East for years, and Russia with its neighbors, we don’t need conflict in the Pacific again too when we would be better off with peace.
Probably the best explanation of this tricky issue that I’ve seen on RUclips.
Although forgot to mention, DPP changed the history books of Taiwan, purposely removing history with China, and many officials actually have ties with Japan and US or are Japanese converted into Chinese names. Many Taiwanese dont even think they are ethnically Chinese. although 98% are. As leading party you control what people see and hear, most of pro unification media etc have been banned by DPP from TV.
I agree as a Chinese
not that tricky. Taiwan is china
I am from China (Mainland), just add something:
- Country and Government are two concepts.
1.China is a Country, it's thousands year old.
2."Peoples' Republic of China" (AKA: New China / Mainland China / Communist China, from 1949 - Current) and "Republic of China" (Old China / Taiwan Government, from 1912 - 1949) are two Government. Government represents Country.
- The history is: ROC was governed by "China Nationalist Party" (AKA: KMT), but at its late time, it was totally corrupt, at that time Communism was brought to China, so most People believed it can change China. So, they built up the China Communist Party, and overthrew ROC, built up PRC. so, the rest of KMT escaped to Taiwan, and claim that ROC still exists.
- So, the conflict is who can represent China? to me, the answer is clear, ROC is gone, it's the old dynasty, PRC replaced ROC, and represents China now.
and no matter ROC or PRC, China is China, that's the whole land including Taiwan island, it's recorded in both constitutions.
"China is China" LOL Brainwashed! China is a myth.
One detail may have been ignored or missed by Ryan, which is that when Kuo Min Tang retreated to the island Taiwan it was already one of the 35 provinces of China, whether it was ruled by Kuo Min Tang or by the Communist regime. That is an important reason for both sides of the Strait to sustain on their claim that both Taiwan and the Mainland China belong to the same China. The only disagreement between the two regimes is "Who is the legitimate regime of the devided county, which even up to date is a unagreed issue.
Japan gave up its claims on Formosa, which was integral part of its territory and admistered as a prefecture, to no one. This makes the issue of territorial claims complicated especially with regard to international law. I don't know how territorial aquisition of inhabited territory without recognized government could happen lawfully after the 1940s. To my knowledge ROC just extended its force there without any further process.
@@purikurix one argument that has been used is that the ROC succeeded Qing China which did own Taiwan. So when Japan vacated its colonies after WW2, Taiwan returned to the ROC based on this State Succession theory.
But the communists has actually never held Taiwan directly so their claim is weak at best
@@canto_v12 Taiwan is independent. Just give up. Historically it is even owned by many.
@@ceasar8679 give up what? I have no claim to make. Only sharing theories that others have published. I know very well what Taiwan is like and what its diplomatic situation is.
I think it’s worth mentioning in the constitution of both PRC and ROC，there is only one China, ROC(Taiwan)s constitution includes all China as their territory (including Mongolia) 😂 Taiwan is a province in both constitution
New favorite channel. you really seem to go out of your way to eliminate bias as much as possible. Plz continue these types of videos discussing political conflicts and their history that gives a birds eye view.
Just clicked on this and can’t wait to watch. Some incredibly high quality content in my opinion and I’m always excited for the next video
I’ve been fascinated by the China Taiwan conflict for a long time. Hands down this is the best explanation and most fair presentation I’ve seen yet!
Trust me, it is neither fair nor does it gives the full picture. It is a very biased and skewed western perspective.
@@malaysiaterdedah3934 could you explain the China side more then? Id love to hear!
@@Ausiedundan There never was a Taiwanese identity. This video sneakily tries to portray China as some crazy imperialist power stuck in the past to obtain "former" glory and power hungry to subjugate native "
Taiwanese". But there is no such thing! Taiwanese ARE Chinese. Unless you account for the "natives" who are 2% of the population. More than 90% of Taiwan are Han Chinese from various parts of China. There is NO taiwanese language like what the video tries to portray. People in Taiwan of course speak mandarin and also Minan, a fujian dialect spoken by people in China. We speak that too here in Southeast Asia (Btw, many many people in SouthEast Asia, India, Middle East understand what is going on and is pro china. China is not alone.) From the perspective of a SouthEast Asian, I think pro independent people in Taiwan are VERY naive and selfish. They don't understand how difficult it is to survive in such a darwinian world. Also, its
nothing to do with being the center of the world BS. China was never a warmongering imperialist. Taiwan IS a part of China and how can you concede your sovereignty? BOTH Taiwan and China claims to be the legitamate government of China. It's just that one side lost and the Americans have funneled various resources to keep it that way so that they can influence china. The one who wants war is the west, not China. Look at how western nations influence any problems a country has. Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Ukraine, Palestine just to name a few. The only reason why Taiwan is a problem now is because China is strong and the west wants to contain it. I urge you to stop browsing western propaganda and look for other sources from around the world, you will have a different perspective. Majority of Chinese understand the sensitivity of the situation and are more than willing to have a peaceful resolution one day. But the Americans are doing all they can to push for war, which China can only respond why heightening tensions. War in China will affect us here in SEA drastically and we hope the Americans will have some confidence in their abilities to compete fairly and work on their own country before trying to start war.
@@malaysiaterdedah3934 how much Winnie the pooh chan pays you to spread propaganda?
Facts about Taiwan that ignored by a smart mind like Ryan, by accident?
- The population migration from China to Taiwan was recorded as early as AD-230, over 1000 years earlier than the 16th century
- the most (>95%) people living in Taiwan today is of the Han Chinese ethnicity originate from China, which inherited lots of historical and culture relation with China. President Tsai is also Han Chinese, her family prospered significantly during Japan's ruling time.
- there was only one "228 incident" kind of bad killing event during the rule of "Kuomindang", comparing with half million people killed during his so-called Japan's "modernize the place"
- the overwhelming public opinion (to be independent) of the Confederacy did not stop the American Civil War to unite the United States
- "thought highly at themselves" is a good thing for any people / county / civilization, as long as it is not used as excuse to conquer, colonize and enslave others, or to stop to progress
- If Mao can decide, the Korean war would not happen ... the new weak China did not want any external war while facing big internal issues
- there is unsettled Chinese civil war between PRC and RoC (Taiwan). "Taiwan is part of China" is clearly stated in the Constitution of PRC and the Constitution of RoC
- behind almost every hot conflicts in today's world, there has been the evil shadow of "divide and rule" to benefit from inciting hatred, it seems the talent (may be in its blood) of some people
Nice work. I think you should have mentioned that the USA maintains informal military presence in Taiwan, which is a big driving factor behind all the talk of integrity and security. Imagine how US would feel if China had a military presence in Cuba. When the Soviets were, the world almost ended. Personally my heart is with the Taiwanese but this factor is crucial...
It's different. Cuba was never our own territory. US has a Military presence in all of Asia because of the Korean War and because Japan cannot use their military outside of their own country. The Philippines have been invaded by several regimes and can't defend themselves against the might of imperialist countries. After the Baatan death march the US should always have a presence there to keep them safe. This is why Russia has relations with South America. US imperialism threatened South America.
Because China has a past trauma they want to do so much to get back at every foreign country possible even if they aren't to blame. China is doing too much and is no better than any other imperialist country of the past. They need to stop stealing land from the Philippines and taking ports from other smaller countries with loans they know they will never pay back.
All imperialism from every country is wrong. The whole world needs to end imperialism for good. All borders should be respected from now on. Taiwan has been independent long enough. They deserve to be theirs own sovereign country whether China likes it or not. Democracy is the present and the future.
If The Us and China switched places and roles, japan and south Korea wouldve been glassed decades ago
@@gravegaming2023 Exactly. South Korea and Japan would not be free countries, and would not be prosperous and as liberalized as it is to this day, thanks to the United States. I agree the U.S. is no Saint, and certainly has its flaws and has done wrongdoings. But a world order under Washington is nowhere near as dystopian and hellish as a totalitarianism world based order under Bejing. Just look at what Bejing did with its satellite state North Korea since the Korean War, and likewise look at what Washington did with its satellite state South Korea, since the Korean War. The differences are extremely stark in contrast.
@@FledgedPhoenix taiwan is not indipedent (UN) litaraly says so basically all countries (including USA)do not recognize taiwan, Not as independent but as part of china only a few hand full of small islands recognize Taiwan as independent.
By your logic the donbas milita has had gotten separat from Ukraine for a while and is indipedent shoud Ukraine just let donbas goo?
@@FledgedPhoenix look where democracy has gotten you
Excellent, excellent video! Extremely informative yet completely unbiased, this is a must watch for anyone who's interested in the history between China and Taiwan
Ryan, I love your work. Calm, confident, and you tell the facts. I do trust your analysis.
The problem is not whether Taiwan should be independent but China should be a democracy.
Bingo.
If China's leadership meaningfully reflected its people, it wouldn't be humilating itself still.
Please keep up your work! They are a must watch!
You try to envelope a deep perspective and understanding and it really shows in your videos.
Thank you Ryan, this video is extremely informative and insightful.
such an unexpectedly detailed and informative video. thank you so much for bringing social psychological aspects of the topic to your audience.
Another very fine presentation. Historically accurate and well nuanced, I really enjoyed this examination of the China
/Taiwan relationship.
This is not biased on either way and is not like MSM’s anti-China propaganda talk.
You have been misled about the fact that there is no country called Taiwan. There is only one country called the Republic of China.
Never ask a Taiwanese the full name of Taiwan
Traditional Chinese: 中華民國
Romanize: Zhong Hua Ming Guo
Direct translate: Chinese Republic
Official English: Republic of China
Unofficial: Taiwan (ROC)
Rebel: Taiwan
😊
Maybe you can tell us your answer 😂
One-China Policy should never be left out when talking about today’s Taiwan situation. Don’t know if it’s on purpose or not. Anyway here’s some facts about it:
The ‘One China Policy’ is the foundation of today’s Sino-US relation. By acknowledging there’s only one China and which Taiwan is a part of, the US started official diplomatic relation with PRC China in 1970s. The policy also played a role in China rejoining the UN. As PRC replaced ROC as an official member of UNSC. One-China Policy was acknowledged by all UN members then. Only that some countries may differ on which government is the official representative of China.
Given the facts above, it becomes clear that today’s conflict around Taiwan is more of the conflict between China and US rather than between mainland and Taiwan. Because as ‘One-China Policy’ is still in effect, Taiwan’s issue is nothing but an internal affair of China. That is, an issue among the people on both sides of the sea. An issue which the US has no business in.
However, as Taiwan is too valuable an asset in controlling the first island chain thus containing China, the US has been seeking ways to treat Taiwan as a country without actually tearing up the agreement. In other word, ‘strategic ambiguity’ is actually an effort to hollow out the One-China Policy. PRC China reaffirms One-China principle as a counter measure, so the conflict begins.
Actually, to think Taiwanese people alone have the right to decide whether Taiwan will be a country or not is nothing short of neglecting the One-China policy. And this is the exact narrative the US has been preaching across the world. I have seen similar narrative in this video, which I don’t think is a comprehensive enough way to approach this issue. Still, this video is one of the more all-sided presentations of this matter.
Todays MSM narratives on Taiwan are not only biased, but also dangerous. Misjudgment will only aggravate the conflict, and after all the events in 2022 this is the last thing the world needs now.
Yea fuck the one China policy, nobody cares lmao.
"The ‘One China Policy’ is the foundation of today’s Sino-US relation. By acknowledging there’s only one China and which Taiwan is a part of, the US started official diplomatic relation with PRC China in 1970s." Incorrect. The US, nor any other Western power, has ever recognized Taiwan as a part of China. What you are quoting is China's "one China policy", not the one China policy agreed to by countries like the US. The United States' One-China policy was first stated in the Shanghai Communiqué of 1972: "the United States acknowledges that Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China." It doesn't say Taiwan is a part of China, it simply says that the US that the US knows that China thinks this.
My mother's uncle was a secretary to Chiang Kai Shek and I could never get him to talk much about his memories. (I was only 10 or 12 at the time. )This means a lot to me thank you so much
Damn that's so interesting
It's a shame he never spoke about it
I have seen a lot of videos on the subject of Taiwan yet yours is the first to actually explain the history and perspective of either side let alone both.
Ryan you are making a great journalistic work, no one make it as well documented and informed as you, congratulations
I really appreciate your clear and impartial exploration into these topics. You state the history (as briefly as is possible), and relay the current stances of the relevant parties, in their own words where available. It’s so refreshing to be given such a synopsis, free of bias.
I loved your video on “the golden age” of news, and I wish there were more sources for this kind of clean reporting in modern journalism and political analysis.
Thank you for the time and effort you put into these videos.
This was hardly impartial lol
@@mikebane2866 At which point did Ryan inject his own opinion on the matter?
So the keywords are *“making sense”, "twists to reality"* and *"uneducated western assumptions".*
Let me attempt to give you a more radical perspective in a grander scope along those veins if you don't mind.
See, the Chinese Nation or civilization or culture has been existing “undisturbed” since 500+ yrs before Jesus was born totaling 2500+ years as a unified country. 70+ years before Columbus set sail on his great expedition China’s Admiral Zhenghe had already completed 7 grand scale expeditions between 1405 and 1433 covering as far as Eastern Africa and the entirety of Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean(more than 70,000 nautical miles, more than three times the circumference of the earth) resulting in far-reaching ocean voyages to the coastal territories and islands in and around the South China Sea, the Indian Ocean, and beyond.
Before that Kublai Khan’s government had sent his ministers to the island to declare governance in 1292 and subsequently installed jurisdiction over Taiwan in Penghu in1335.
China could have colonized all of the above easily if it so chose but it only did so to Taiwan in the 1600s. Why? you might ask. Well because China at that time had no need to do so. The *reality* was so *untwisted* that it was almost oblivious to it and the majority who inhabited the island were mostly their own compatriots AKA the Han people. See how things *make sense* to the Chinese? Where inhabited by my own people I will *assume* mine but I will not touch where populated by others, unlike the Europeans. However, all had changed since the invasion from the West.
The above connects to Ryan's video at 0:58 ( I do recommend you click and watch the video again before continuing reading )
Ryan's video does have a Chinese perspective which I appreciate but unlike many in the comment section who exalted him with all kinds of praises, I would like to point out that his entire logic is still under the Westen Paradigm established through 500 years of colonial history, which completely and naturally *makes* perfect *sense* to you but doesn’t to most Chinese who have had no choice but to put up with such arrangements and logic, until it becomes as strong as the Great Powers from the West that is. The same can be said about the Johnsons line and McMahon line at the Sino-Indian border.
@@clarkl7027 Thanks for your reply. I don't feel that he "failed to mention" the first point. He never did a demographic breakdown, as it's not particularly relevant to the political opinions of the people. During the brief history, he described how there was various colonisations and annexations, and how for hundreds of years now it was settlers from mainland China and their descendants who have lived there. But just as settlers/colonisers moved from Europe to the Americas, and the populations there remain majority ethno-European, doesn't have any bearing on whether, say, Brazil should be "unified" with Portugal today.
I would also argue strongly against the idea that Taiwanese and Chinese share "exactly the same culture". An island nation with centuries of influence from various political powers, combined with the comparatively recent split from the communist ideals of mainland china are clear differences to point to, culturally.
On your second point, the fact that the people of Taiwan predominantly speak a variation on the Hokkien language from Fujian is no surprise, due to the (again, clearly mentioned) large-scale settlement of Taiwan by China hundreds of years ago. I had no expectation from watching this video that the settled people decided to invent an entirely new language. Ryan quoted a source describing how the KMT rulers "refused to speak Taiwanese", as they insisted on speaking in Mandarin instead. That was the only time the language of Taiwan was raised, and it's a relevant point. Mandarin is not a Hokkien dialect, so they are appreciably distinct.
On your third point, the reason that they've changed their national identity since the 90's might have something to do with the fact that they've only had a democracy since the 1990's? As clearly explained in the video, the KMT had ruled Taiwan since the Japanese had been defeated. And seeing as the KMT clearly considered themselves to be "Chinese", and even after losing the civil war with Mao and his revolutionaries, had plans to "retake" the mainland (as openly stated in the video)... the KMT ruled Taiwan effectively as dictators, with tight restrictions on speech. Saying that the DPP "controlled the media to brainwash Taiwanese" into wanting independence is laughable, when the previous political power had overtly and violently controlled people's ability to express their desires for self-determination.
The Taiwanese have only been able to express themselves since the 90's, and since the 90's they have been expressing that they would like independence from China. Both of these points are facts. You can decide yourself whether they are important facts in whether or not Taiwan should have independence or be part of China. But whatever opinion you have, does not change these facts, as they are in and of themselves impartial. A comment like "DPP tempered the textbook and controlled the media, brainwashing Taiwanese people after they took office", said without any backing is not impartial. That difference is why, as I said in my original comment, I appreciate Ryan's videos.
Anyway, thanks again for your comment, even if we disagree.
@@clarkl7027 While I appreciate that you took the time to write such a detailed response, unfortunately I'm not pursuing a conversation of backing-up or rebutting the various claims made by each party against each other. Once again, my original comment was that Ryan's video gave a factual and balanced look at the situation as it stands. Some of the claims you are making are exactly the opposite of what I am here for.
How much ethnicity and cultural similarities/differences should be factors in self-governance of geographically distinct groups of people is a matter of fierce debate. Just ask Russia and Ukraine. How ethnically and culturally distinct do people have to be before they suddenly gain the option of independent rule? Should the Republic of Ireland default to being part of the UK by virtue of the cultures being "more similar than different"?
On a side note, saying that Taiwanese eat "Chinese Food" is a rather funny statement, as China, being as large and populous as it is, does not have one fixed cuisine. People in all regions of the country have quite distinct foods. Whether you consider Taiwan to be a region of China or an independent state, it equally has its own distinct food and food culture.
Regarding Mandarin being the official language of Taiwan since the Ming dynasty... I doubt that's true as Mandarin only became the official language of China in the early 1900's. I'll defer to you if you have more knowledge on the topic, but I would still say that something being the "official language" does not settle the matter, as authorities imposing a chosen language on the population has happened all over the world.
I don't even know how to respond to your final point. I'd be happy to hear a non-biased account of any propaganda the DPP may or may not be injecting into the education system. But I can't take any claims made by you seriously, as you very clearly have a pre-existing stance on this. Stating that the DPP shapes the textbooks of their country to help influence pro-independence while completely ignoring the absolute totalitarian control that the CCP has over both the education system and the press in China is disingenuous in the context of a discussion about un-biased reporting. The CCP has been overtly re-writing the textbooks in Hong Kong to favour their policies, for one easy example.
Feel free to reply again if you wish, but as I said at the beginning of this comment, I do not have the interest (or frankly, the expertise) to continue a debate on this matter, so please don't take it as an insult if I don't reciprocate.
Very informative and educational, thank you
disclaimer: i’m from China
I think it’s misleading to frame it as if Taiwan has its own distinct culture right off the bat. Aboriginals make up a tiny percentage of the current population and 96% are immigrants from China. We speak the same language, learn the same history, consume mostly the same entertainment formats. You say the position in the video is from the official Taiwanese narrative, I’ll take your word for it since I’m not familiar but that is misleading and taking advantage of the minority natives for their own narrative. I think the conflict is much more political than cultural, and I don’t think it would be so bad for a unified China, IF it’s democratized.
This is really well-written and well-researched. You explained the situation of the issue very well. I really like how unbiased this video is, in explaining the situation and the feeling of both sides.
This video has a gross omission that Han Chinese has established settlement on Taiwan since Song Dynasty, which was officially annexed by the Southern Song Dynasty and existed as an admisnistrative area during the Yuan Dynasty, which used it as one of the staging areas for Khublai's failed 2nd invasion of Japan in 1281.
Given the depth of research in Ryan's other videos, I find it hard to believe that framing the Dutch as the first ruler of Taiwan was an unintential mistake and damages the image of neutrality he tries to maintain.
I really admire the effort put in this video.
Cannot agree with a few things the way you put it as a Chinese. I found a comment from “One leaf”has laid out several points that need to be argued more. Hope RYAN will read them and tackle this topic further more, and make more updates on Taiwan issue.
Actual facts on " Taiwanese Aboriginal and Tribal people" as real victim in Taiwan history is always hidden from public knowledge until now.
That was one of the greatest attempts at explaining the situation between Taiwan and China and good job at doing this! I can see that the video was very well researched and expresses both side's situation really elaborately!
While I think that the video has done an amazing job at explaining Taiwan's perspective and I'm would also align myself as very much pro-Taiwan. One feedback I would give is that, this video might have misrepresented a bit of the origins of the Taiwanese people. (But again this is still a great video)
A vast majority of Taiwanese are essentially settlers/colonists onto the island throughout the past few centuries. Han Chinese settlers from southeastern China(Fujian province) started in the 17th century after Dutch colonization. The video seems to have portrayed the Taiwanese people more like a group of natives who have always been on the island that are fighting against Chinese imperialism, but the reality is more complicated than that, where the majority demographic of Taiwan is also the result of the same kind of "Chinese imperialism."
But I think this is the truth that many Taiwanese might be too upset to hear, because it's too anticolonialist and radical. It would the equivalent be me calling out all white Americans as settlers on the continent and a product of British imperialism. With regards to this, I do think that the Taiwanese independence movement is much more comparable to the American independence movement from Britain in the 18th century.
Where British settlers on the continent have embraced a new kind of nationality(Americans) and wanted to be separate from British colonial rule and set up an independent liberal democratic republic away from the monarchical rule back home. But despite the establishment of the United States as a new nation, it doesn't really change the fact that the vast majority of Americans were British descendants and settlers rather than actual native Americans. So, Taiwan is also a result of Han Chinese settler colonialism, and I apologize for bringing in this critical theorist perspective into the picture, since in settler societies plenty of people have also argued that it is quite divisive to separate a nation into settlers vs. natives, but it's a valid point of view that more Taiwanese Aborigines would certainly hold towards their Han Taiwanese compatriots and China.
I think a very similar thing like the U.S. is actually happening in Taiwan, coincidentally the Taiwanese also want to set up their own independent nation with a liberal democratic political system, but this doesn't change the fact that 95% of Taiwanese are Han descendants rather than indigenous peoples on the island. Although to be fair, the Han Taiwanese have had a more peaceful and less oppressive relationship with the Aboriginals, where plenty of Han Taiwanese in earlier centuries have already integrated and married with the indigenous population. And the DPP's administration have already been pursuing reconciliation and even more recognition of the original status of the Aboriginals.
So my point is, IT IS important to recognize that the Taiwanese is indeed composed of 95% Han Chinese people, not because I support China's unification plan, but because it's a recognition of the status of Taiwanese Aboriginals that they are the natives of the land. So I think there should be an even more nuanced evaluation of Taiwan's perspective that distinguishes Han Taiwanese and Taiwanese Aboriginals. And I think if the Taiwanese independence movement succeeds in the future, the island would be facing a new set of challenges that exists in post-colonial Americas like U.S., Canada, and Australia, which is the need for reconciliation between its settler population and its native population.(In Taiwan: this would be the Han Taiwanese(being analogous to white Americans) vs. Taiwanese Aboriginals(being analogous to native Americans.) And for Taiwan, it is recommended that they keep pursuing their pluralistic policy of uniting and respecting their Aboriginal population, where it could become a post-colonial society more like New Zealand's, where its settler and Maori population would have a much more amicable relation with each other.
Hit that issue on the head, you did!
Very well addressed!
I don't think it is in parallel to the colonization of the US, since KMT's military resources was backed by the US, so there is another layer of power dominance of the Anglo-Saxons playing a strong hand manipulating affairs in Asia for their own interests in that regard
Thank you for clarifying the ethnic majority in Taiwan. I agree the situation is more comparable to the US independence from Britain.
@@JK12345-z Again that is history. Taiwanese don't want to be ruled by Beijing. CCP lives in past Imperialist times like Putin
It's worth noting that the calls for unification is more important then actually unifying. They won't ever admit it but Taiwan is more important as an enemy then they ever would be as a territory.
Not true, Taiwan allows China unfettered access to the Pacific which is why Western neocons are fighting this hard over the island.
"unification" well put
Thats dumb as fuck.
I have talked to many of my Chinese friends, when they talk about Taiwan it comes with strong emotion. Not emotion of hate, but rather sadness coming from the century of humiliation, they believe if the west seeks to stand in their way it is a continuation of that humiliation on the Chinese people. They will fight to the last man if they must in order to achieve total unification of China, they don't care if the war last for 100 of years or even 1000s, deep down their desire for unification is intense. The way I see it, the Chinese are not joking or FKing around in this matter. As out siders we might think there are other motives, but to the Chinese this is real, real as in life and death level of real.
@@twood2032 You've described a diplomatic tantrum
Whilst I don't agree with the underlying message of this video, I will say the video covers this whole China/Taiwan issue very thoroughly, logically and convincingly. Well done 👏
Great work on history research, I juast want to add that above all the history, the strategic position as the center piece of the first island chain, and the dominant semi-conductor industry are probably the thing that really interest any superpower to get involved in the issue.
Chips are a distraction, USA and west knows that one missile or bomb to tsmc factory and it's game over, nothing for USA to "protect" anymore. China can just use one of their thousands of spies in Taiwan to do terrorist attack on the factory.
The real reason is first island chain containment, and always using Taiwan card for political leverage against china in every other us china negotiations.
If china had access to Taiwan, it would have a deep water port and USA can no longer contain or track Chinese submarines, china would have free access to the whole pacific and the world.
Taiwans deep water ports have waters thousands of meters deep, while China's coast has like 50-100 meter deep only, which allows USA to use Taiwan, Japan, Philippines and South Korea to contain and track all Chinese subs coming and leaving the first island chain.
Compared to the first island chain containment and tracking of Chinese navy including nuke subs, chips are nothing. It's all about national security and USAs containment of China. If China takes Taiwan, USA basically loses all its control of China and China would basically be on equal footing with USA, since china would now have the ability to sneak attack USA west coast at will from the seas.
@@ex0duzz Very well said. Security for sure plays at least 80% of a role here, because it's life or death problem.
Tsmc, however, is not something China is interested in bombing (actually US might even like the idea of tsmc factories getting blown up since the Arizona factory would then become the best they are left with). China wants it to make her profit instead. Especially considering China's bid for high-tech industry dominance, tsmc could be an important piece of puzzle to that spply chain. Not saying it is even close to the significance of navy ships, it's just that it creates a delicate balance there.
@@instachocolate yeh course china is not interested in war except as a last resort. China also uses tsmc chips after all and china is taiwans biggest trade partner, and taiwanese are also Chinese in Chinese people's eyes. Only usa and west benefit from Chinese killing Chinese.
War, terrorism and killing is a failure of diplomacy and higher level strategy to Chinese. That's more usa style and thus why they project their insecurities on china. They don't understand china enough
China claim to Taiwan long before the tsmc established.
man you are awesome! you understand this fucked up situation better than anybody I know, and I was born and raised in a place where EVERYBODY was constantly talking about this.
A very good job
Much of your analysis is wrong. Actually democratization was forced by the United States. This is why the US advocates democracy in small countries all over the world, because it can prop up its own puppets. Since the democratization of Taiwan, every president has to report to the United States. He represents the interests of the United States, not Taiwan. Why are you afraid to talk about American influence in your video? Isn't it freedom of speech?
The one thing we can agree on is that the main losers of all this were the locals of Taiwan which were colonised and completely ignored and almost wiped out through the various occupation.
Both the (historically Chinese but now) Taiwanese people and the Chinese people have valid criticisms, with the sovereignty of the island technically falling to the CCP after the civil war but also it has been 70 years and the people of Taiwan have had their own government for as long making their government at this point pretty valid. I honestly envy the real people which have to make the decisions and deal with the ramifications because it’s a hard situation to be in.
It's only a hard decision because the CCP exists. They are the ones pushing the issue and stopping a peaceful exchange. If they, for example, had a DPP entity in their political makeup, Taiwan would be more amiable to 'annexation'.
China sees itself as a civilization state where the country is the geographical region with multiple forms of government. While Taiwan sees itself as a nation state where what the government has control over is the country.
That is very true, and it's something many people in the West have a hard time understanding because we are taught about China simply as a communist ideological project. A Taiwan unified with China would most likely still have elections etc., however, movements toward independence would be illegalized, as we have seen in HK.
@@madsappeal
So Taiwan would just become like the Mainland. Amazing plan.
@@spacejunk2186 The mainland doesn't have elections, so no. Hong Kong is also not like the mainland. There are no restrictions on the internet etc. in Hong Kong, like you have in the mainland.
@@spacejunk2186 Sounds great! Better than having its tail held by the US
@@ed.amame_z How?
I think you should have made a comparison between China's stance over sovereignty with other similar issues going on around the world and wondered if China's stance was really out of place as suggested by many in the Western world. Like they say, do as I say but not as I do . The immediate example that comes to mind is Catalonia where the local population has expressed in 2 referendums their willingness to separate completely from Spain and yet the leaders of that referendum were deemed criminals and chased around Europe as mere criminals to be brought back to face justice in Spain for inciting secession. Is there more to say ? That's just one case and if you look at the difficulties Scotland has faced in acrrying out a referendum, its not much different. You could examine the fate of Corsica and you'd probably find out the same and Quebec is also in that basket where nationalistic forces can re ignite the movement toward separation. So, was force exerted in the case of Catalonia ? Absolutely. But then, Spain is part of the Western alliance and doesn't face military restraint with tens of military bases surrounding it ready to strike. Food for thought.
Yes except the fact that those countries are all democracies where the government was elected by the people. The CCP is a genocidal autocracy, which is completely unaccountable to it's people, trying to take over a fledgling democracy in Taiwan, which is actually accountable to it's people. Those two systems are totally incompatible as the the CCP demonstrated in Hong Kong.
Secondly, those examples aren't great. Scotland and Quebec have had legit referendums on independence and both voted no. Catalonia is however a good example for your argument and so is the American civil war. Undoubtedly those countries are economically stronger with those territories staying within the country as they've developed together. Taiwan on the other has developed economically independently from China for over a century with a brief spat between the end of WW2 and the civil war
@@bordedup546 You basically showed how undemocratic you are and how hypocritical you come across by saying that 'You' can decide that it will be better for Catalonia to stay part of Spain for their own good but Taiwan for some obscure reason is economically stronger and should be allowed to separate. You know what Global South observers would call that : Discrimination, plain and simple. You , westerners think you can make the rule, bend them as you want and get away with it as you make exceptions for your cherished projects that will upset your own little world. You call yourself democracies as you jail leaders of a democracy (Catalonia) that freely decided to separate by a majority and you suddenly close your eyes on this criminal behavior and want to explain it as paternalistic as possible, "It would be good economically that Catalonia remain inside Spain, that's why we will use force to jail the leaders and render void the referendum that they voted to separate from Spain and you have the guts to call yourself a democracy. Man, that's the most undemocratic and disgusting statements showing how little thoughts were put in replying to my statements above. They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is democracy. Ask Edward Snowden or Julian Assange whether they consider the West a democracy !!! Btw, there's no comparison in what happened to Catalonia and Hong Kong. The Chinese have every right to arrest anyone who're trying to formant trouble in Hong Kong and that's what they did.
@@bobmorane4926 You can't have so much anguish about Catalonia, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden and then hand-wave away what China did in Hong Kong. That's hypocracy in it's purist form.
I also take grave exception to the term "global south". I was born and lived in India so I actually know what it's like, despite your presumption to the contrary. You can pretend that the global south is a powerful unified front opposing the west, similar to how united countries within the EU are, but that's just false. "Global south" is a made up term that hold no weight outside of Russian & Chinese propaganda.
I don't agree with how Edward Snowden or Julian Assange were treated nor with the fact that Catalonia wasn't allowed to be independent. These are of course mistakes but that doesn't mean that those countries aren't democratic, like you seem to be implying. This is an incredibly very weak argument.
I never said that Catalonia would be economically better off within Spain, I was actually referring more to the American civil war example. What I was trying to say is that undoubtedly America is a much stronger economy because it didn't split into two separate countries. For this reason some democratic states allow secession, UK & Canada, while others don't, Spain & USA. Taiwan & China have been economically independent for over a century, so the above argument doesn't apply to this dispute.
I can see why the CCP feels as strongly about secession as the USA does but those two countries are very different. The CCP wants Taiwan for imperial reasons and if they get it they will no doubt supress the wonderful free & democratic civil society that Taiwan has built for itself. On the other hand, residents of the American South enjoy all of the same rights as their north counterparts and are equals within the union, not subordinates. This is the difference between a democracy and a genocidal dictatorship like the CCP. This is why despite being a somewhat legitimate claim by the CCP, I will never support their ambition to take Taiwan. I despise the tyrannical CCP and I suport Taiwan for the vibrant democracy they've built, despite the CCP's best efforts. In a dispute between a democractic government and a dictatorship over who gets to survive, I will always support the democracy because at the end of the day, their citizens actually voted for them.
@@bordedup546 The way you you define democracy seems to be a made up term based on your limited understanding of what a democracy is and what a referendum means and you use tyranny freely without much thought of what it actually means. If you're from India, well the US has some real issues with the Indian democracy as used willy nilly by the Indians to be really proud of as the muslims in Kashmir or the Sikhs revolts are being crushed with the army. Blinken never misses a beat to remind the Indians about his concerns on the human rights issues in India. I think many in the Global South have trouble understanding those terms and they do not realize how brain washed they've been about democracy and tyranny as your statements and explanation clearly show. That's what I was trying to tell you, you still want to give a pass to what happened in Catalonia , but refuses to understand the hypocritical parallel with Taiwan or Hong Kong. You're clearly not rational in your thoughts or you cannot comprehend the irony in full view. And let me remind you that the hypocrisy isn't from China which isn't lecturing anybody else about how to solve their constitutional issues, but the West is always lecturing others even as they cannot even solve their own constitutional problems and show themselves to be dictatorial in solving their constitutionl roadblocks (by arresting the leaders for breaking the law) but guess what, you cannot appreciate the gravity of this action which you just want to minimize as a minor mistake when it's in fact much more serious coming from a country that declares itself a democracy.
@@bobmorane4926 I'll reiterate: the global south doesn't exist; can you explain what the "global south" is so I can understand why you're so obsessed with it? Instead of going around in circles can you define democracy, explain why the US and Spain aren't ones and which countries are democracies according to you? Tyrannical is an apt description for the CCP: Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Tibet, Tiananmen Square, Mao's great leap forward and so on prove it.
I've noticed that your arguments rely heavily on grievances with the West. If Blinkin is telling India it has human rights issues then so be it. I also think India has human rights issues, corruption, toxic news media, aggression towards Pakistan and more. A democracies main effort must be about facing it's problem head on rather than holding onto petty grievances against the West. You also keep repeating your grievance with Spain but what Spain did was legal because their constitutions explicitly prohibits secession and the Supreme Court arrested the Catalonian leaders on these grounds. Whether it was moral is a different question and I agree with you that it was not. You are also right to that the CCP can feel the same way about Taiwan and that it would be somewhat hypocritical to deny them that.
However, your politics of grievances and hypocrisy is too simplistic to address the elephant in the room: the CCP wants to invade Taiwan, kill hundreds of thousands in the process, arrest it's rightfully elected leaders, violently suppress opposition, freedom of speech, reverse decades of progress by dismantling it's democracy forever and destroy what makes Taiwanese society so prosperous. You're telling me all of this is acceptable because you have some grievances with the West and because some countries in the West are hypocritical about secession? People like me aren't convinced by your arguments because they are insignificant when compared to the reality of the death, decimation of freedom and democracy that the CCP's invasion will bring. This is vital for you to address if you want to convince people that the CCP is right to want to invade Taiwan
I don't really like most videos introducing Taiwan and China issue. However, this is an amazing video that clearly explained the history and principle of both sides. You must spend a lot of time on this, appreciate it! Will support your other videos too🥰
Isn't it fascinating that the fate of Ming Dynasty was the same as the ROC? LIke both of them fled to the island and reminisce of reclaiming the mainland.
Of course, yes
Excellent piece of work Mr. Chapman. I really appreciate the clarity you brought to this issue for me, as in so many of the subjects you've addressed.
This video has a gross omission that Han Chinese has established settlement on Taiwan since Song Dynasty, which was officially annexed by the Southern Song Dynasty and existed as an admisnistrative area during the Yuan Dynasty, which used it as one of the staging areas for Khublai's failed 2nd invasion of Japan in 1281.
Given the depth of research in Ryan's other videos, I find it hard to believe that framing the Dutch as the first ruler of Taiwan was an unintential mistake.
Well balanced explanations backed by thorough research and historical data points. Nicely done!
This video has a gross omission that Han Chinese has established settlement on Taiwan since Song Dynasty, which was officially annexed by the Southern Song Dynasty and existed as an admisnistrative area during the Yuan Dynasty, which used it as one of the staging areas for Khublai's failed 2nd invasion of Japan in 1281.
Given the depth of research in Ryan's other videos, I find it hard to believe that framing the Dutch as the first ruler of Taiwan was an unintential mistake and damages the neutrality image.
Your stuff is just such super high quality. Thank you!
I find it hard to search mainland china and tai wan history without being political biased from western media. And this video helping me so much to understand both perspective in neutral position. thanks for your great journalism.
As a Taiwanese, this is the most unbiased and adequately informative video on Taiwan-China issue I’ve ever seen!
Is this the same excuse Russia is using against Ukraine?
Great overview. And the fact that in the end he did not introduce the US as a political force capitalizing on this controversy makes this review even more balanced.
You stated that indigenous Taiwanese have decided that colonial forces, including the Chinese, will no longer govern them. You are suggesting that the Taiwanese are not Chinese. And, to camouflage your bias, you did not mention Taiwan ethnic groups, because 95-97% of Taiwanese people are Han, the same as in mainland China, and only 2.3% are indigenous (Yuanzhumin or Gaoshan people).
Taiwanese people are Chinese.
Why do Chinese people always think this is such a good point when there are many independent nations like Australia, New Zealand, and America, that are independent and don't expect Britain to try to invade them.
@@user-yc3fw6vq5n it’s only makes the argument or them being colonized stupid
They talk like as if they are the indigenes but they aren’t
@@user-yc3fw6vq5n America is because it defeated British at its Peak. And the others are because The British Empire falls from the Grace. It is an extraordinary achievement that Chinese Civilization has the ability to continue its existence in Excellence for almost 3 thousand years. but that is the nightmare for its neighbors or Taiwan in this case.
No one in Taiwan identifies as "han".
Thank you for offering a neutral educational piece that's rare in the western media sphere. Keep up the great work!
Excellent Video. I thought it was very well balanced although I would like to add more points. The reason why the majority of people in China and Taiwan prefer the status quo of "one China" but with different interpretations is that it has already occurred, and not simply preventing a war between the two sides (although i admit it is the main one).
Like Ryan said "China" (referring to civilisation rather than specifying either the mainland or Taiwan) is old and there have been periods of political division that created the existence of more than one 'China". For example, the Ming Dynasty existed alongside the Qing Dynasty from 1636 to 1644 but also there have been other periods such as the Three Kingdoms, sixteen kingdoms, southern dynasties, and five dynasties and ten kingdoms where there were many states that represented "China". This piece of history can support both the Taiwan and/or Mainland's China claim.
Also Ryan forgot to mention President Carter's speech with important quotes stating "The Govermnent of the United States of America acknowledges the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China," and that "We do not undertake this important step for transient tactical or expedient reasons. In recognizing the People's Republic of China, that it is the single Government of China, we are recognizing simple reality." These events are also part of China's perspective. The history that Ryan mentioned from China's perspective is still relevant but I wish he also included this as well.
Also Ryan did not mention this. In 1971, UN Resolution No. 2758 ruled that the PRC had obtained the representation rights and all legal rights originally owned by the ROC in the UN. That means the PRC is China’s only legal govt under international law and is recognized by 181 countries around the world, including the USA. the UN does not recognise Taiwan as a country nor Japan nor the USA, japan and USA do not have an embassy in Taiwan again reinforcing China's position that Taiwan is part of China.
The full name of Taiwan is not Taiwan, but the Taiwan region of the Republic of China. The map of the Republic of China includes the island of Taiwan and the land of the People’s Republic of China. The map of the People’s Republic of China also includes the island of Taiwan, the government of Taiwan and the government of the People’s Republic of China. Both are two governments derived from the Republic of China. Only before 1971, the representative of the Republic of China (Taiwan government) was the legal government status of the entire Chinese nation in the United Nations. After 1971, the People's Republic of China was the legal government status of the entire Chinese nation in the United Nations. Maybe you still can't figure it out, then let's go back to before 1945, what was the relationship between the Chinese Communist government and the national government at that time? Is this a relationship between countries? Answer: no. This is a relationship in which two different regimes in the country compete for the right to rule. Because of the intervention of US warships, the CCP did not unify Taiwan Island, and the Kuomintang government retreated to Taiwan Island. At this moment, the governments on both sides of the strait do not recognize the legitimacy of the other government. There has been no more war, and peace has dragged on until now. Let’s think about it from another angle. If the Chinese government and the Taiwan government have been at war for 77 years from 1946 to 2023, and there are small-scale local wars every year. Then, this year, the Chinese government sent the People’s Liberation Army to attack the Taiwan government again. Do you feel that the CCP government invaded the Taiwan government? Can you say that the People's Republic of China invaded Taiwan? No, will countries all over the world feel that the People's Republic of China has invaded Taiwan? Won't. Because they will only say that the civil war in China has been going on for 77 years, there is no reunification yet, and the war is still going on. Therefore, the government of Taiwan and the government of the People's Republic of China are just two governments whose civil war has dragged on to the present, and the traditional territorial map includes each other. Now the CCP government sends troops to attack the Taiwan government is completely fighting an internal unification war that was not finished 77 years ago. This is an internal affair, which is nothing like a state-to-state war between Ukraine and Russia. Please don't get confused.
another extremely well articulated video. if only we all had the patience, eloquence, and intelligence to properly learn, digest, and explain information like you
Yes!
Your profile with this comment form a beautiful dissonance
Is the author so stupid? Why not mention UN Resolution 2758? The resolution made it clear that the Communist Party of China is the sole legal government of China, replacing all rights and interests of the Kuomintang in the United Nations. At the same time, the Kuomintang was expelled from the United Nations and replaced by the Communist Party. Including the territory of Taiwan is the territory of the Communist Party of China, why the Communist Party failed to occupy Taiwan? Because of US intervention. At that time, the United States was very powerful, and China could not defeat the United States, so it had to compromise.。
So what I got out of this video, assuming all information is correct, is that 97.5% of Taiwan's population today, are descendants of a Warlord who initiated a coupe and a leader of the political party that lost the civil war, whom both decided to flee the country, settle and take over the island of Taiwan. 🤔
Yeah, from. the. Chinese. perspective.
@@baronvonbeandip Found the Taiwanese guy 🤭
Wow, neutral, well balanced , fact-based documentary, nice job, Ryan
This video needs more views.
To summarise:
The Chinese empire started out small and had it's heyday in the Qing Dynasty. Chinese doctrine said that "it is the law of nature to be inferior to any other "race"". Then China lost a lot of territory for whatever reason (other places also lost territory to China in the first place).
Now China calls this "the age of humiliation" because they lost things.
Then CCP China says they want to restore their former "Qing glory" days, while other parts of the world have already moved on and don't want to be part of it anymore.
But the doctrine still says that parts A, B and C were once part of China and therefore it's the law of nature to reclaim them? Didn´t turned out so well for other places who tried this.
As for the Taiwan "issue", many people left China and moved to Taiwan hundreds of years ago, Taiwan (as said in the video) was a minor and unimportant place for the ruling dynasty, be it Qing, Ming etc. to begin with and got much attention.
Also another question, those who say "you are Chinese not Taiwanese", how long do you have to live somewhere else to be considered "not Chinese" anymore?
I'm not asking about someone who was born in China and then moved abroad, I'm talking about generations.
I have family living in both China and Taiwan, moving from TW to CN and the other way around, also not talking about 1-2 years, more like 30-40 years.
More and more countries these days are defined by their mindset and ethics rather than their ethnicity, at least the developed ones.
You are right, Taiwanese is not a race
From a Mexican's perspective, if it matters at all, I think China and Taiwan should reunite peacefully and other countries shouldn't intervene.
Ryan, I've been a new subscriber for a week or so. You are one of the very best teachers on RUclips. There's a guy who is claiming to "debunk" your analysis of post-modernism, but his delivery is hopelessly bogged down by unnecessary contentiousness, self-promotion, and erudite posturing. You, on the other hand, strike the perfect balance and tone. The clean way you deliver information and context without those flaws is wonderful. May we know something about your own background?
You miss the point that the Taiwanese were initially formed by native Taiwanese(which you mentioned in the video) and immigrants from mainland China (mostly Fujian province). the language Taiwanese is actually Min Nan dialects from FUjian mainland China. So the tie between mainland China and Taiwan is like the UK and the US in the 1700s.
As a side note: The Polynesians came from sea tribes of Taiwan.
In reference to this conflict, China has made their intentions clear, they will use any means necessary to force themselves upon Taiwan. As such, Taiwan and any allies have every right to preemptively strike the CCP with any means available.
Could you please make a video on Puerto Rico? It’s definitely a politically complicated situation that needs a similar breakdown.
wow. I thought I had Taiwan all figured out, but there was a lot more to it. thank you for this enlightening video.
Coming back to the video a year later, as a Chinese, I would say modern day China does NOT have the right to govern over Taiwan.
Their white paper makes claims based on history, but as you stated in the video already, Belle the Chinese the aborigines lived and still live on that island. So using the ccps own argument, this island cannot belong to them.
And since the ccp never defeated the kmt on Taiwan they never ruled that island thus they just can’t runify that which was never theirs.
over 95% of Taiwan's population of 23.4 million consists of Han Chinese, while 2.3% are Taiwanese indigenous peoples, rest of them are Minority groups from south china. Ther minorities Chinese and Han Chinese immigranted between 17th - 19th century. The 211 incident happened between the governmen Vs people(included all races in Taiwan), not Han VS indigenous Taiwanese. The Han are often divided into three subgroups: the Hoklo,(From Fujian province), the Hakka, 3.7%(from provinces in South mainland China), and waishengren around 15％ (or "mainlanders" from other provinces of china). So, when you said they refused to speak Taiwanese, Do you mean they should speak Hokkien, Hakka dialect or indigenous people's language only? What exactly is Taiwanese? Most of Taiwan people speak Mandarin with taiwan accent as their mother tongue language. They have same culture as Han Chinese or Minority groups of Chinese in mainland. The meaning of "waishengren" in Mandarin: Wai means"outside", shen: "province" ren: "people". Waishenren are people or people 's parents and grandparents who immigranted to Taiwan after 1945. Even the children born in Taiwan still can be called "waishenren", not "benshenren", because their parents or grandparents immigranted after 1945. Only for those who immigranted before 1945 can call themselves "benshenren"(Local). "Ben" means "origin".This video only go through some part of facts and full of opinions. When you missed some part of facts, you can't see the whole picture.
No one in Taiwan identifies as "han".
Your videos are fantastic resources and ought be required viewing in the english speaking word. Thank you for you excellent work.
it was so difficult to find someone from the west who understands and explained the situation so well not in any kind of prejudiced viewpoint. Subscribed.
Still has a lot of mistakes tbh
Excellent video. I think you should've included the foundation of the KMT and the CCP both from the inspirations of Sun Yat Sin after the abdication of the Qing and the transfer of power. Right now the video seems a little incomplete not knowing where the CCP came from.
Still a great video. 👍
Wrong KMT and CCP were originally funded by the Soviets, in their earliest inception.
Nope CCP inspired by Soviet Union and Stalin.
the philosophy that history is a right to determine the future is a core philosophy that causes nearly all state level conflict in the world. The people that live on the island of Taiwan themselves want to be independent, period. Unless you believe history pre-determines their future.
As someone who has looked into this multiple times this is a good summary of the situation.
This video implies Taiwan Island as a 'separate' nation which is completely wrong since no nation on Earth recognizes it as such
@@elielee7364 hah Chinese, right? Look, is self-governing and does things independently from the people's republic of China, if The Republic of China (Taiwan) acts independently then it is. And wrong, is recognized by a few countries. Is basically considered a rogue region by the CCP. So next time just say they are revels or something, but they still are basically separated.
@@robert-iv7ly That's actually false.
Taiwan's current legal status is that of a part of China. The legality of everything, based partly off of international recognition, is what separates a country from a rogue region. Officially, the vast majority of countries support the PRC as the official ruler of all of China, which matters because whatever authority there is on Taiwan has not declared independence yet. There is no recognition for Taiwan only; the few minor countries that do support "Taiwan" as a country are actually supporting the ROC as the legitimate government of all of China, because the PRC, the stronger party that actually has control over the majority of the mainland, views it as a civil war (which is what the actual status of everything is in) and will break off ties with any country that recognizes the ROC.
They will only officially, legally become independent if they change their constitution (which has as an integral part of it the claims that the current government is an inalienable part of China along with land claims that pretty much encompass the Qing dynasty's lands) and announce independence, yet no authority on Taiwan seems to be willing to do that for the time being.
So you're wrong.
"Taiwan" is not independent, nor is the ROC, (by their own admission!) until they make those two changes.
It doesn't matter if a separate government rules them, it doesn't matter if they have their own currency, none of the things you listed as supposed "evidence" matters.
Officially, legally, on the international stage, they are not an independent country.
Of course, they can try to do those two things, but then the civil war would officially resume and the mainland would have the right to actually move in and take it back.
@@robert-iv7ly as a Chinese I have to say that this video really makes some senses and make me clear about a lot of things. But I still want to point out that although there are native people who live on that island long time ago, Taiwanese population is still majorly originated from mainland China. I do sense that the people in Taiwan have this impression of being suppressed by colonists but just as stated in this video. Main land Chinese people have, if not more, equal right to achieve what we believe in. If you say that you respect the will of the people who live on the island, then how about 1.5 billion people's will across the channel? At least to my knowledge, most Chinese people including me have this notion of, sort of like, "make China great again" and most of them are looking forward to the unification. And towards the points of Chinese government showing off muscles, I do want to admit that it is true. However I want to add some facts of the disgusting politicians who play an horrible role in Taiwan and America such as Nancy Pelosi. She, as an in-office government official, visiting Taiwan, which is a country not officially recognized by US government is an unnecessary and purely evil action. Also this is the direct cause of this recent military drill.
Here is my own opinion on this matter. I think my best hope on this matter is that as the economic power and personal freedom of Mainland Chinnese people grows, the Taiwanese people would see that maybe reunification peacefully wouldn't be so bad. (in fact you can check Hongkong as an example, life in Hongkong, legislatively, is still very different from life in mainland). Unfortunately, populists in both Taiwan and America consistently poke CCP, even they know very well this is the bottom lines of my country, so I think the peaceful resolve on this matter is more and more unlikely...
@@xiaogezhang126 Why would anyone on earth except Taiwanese have a say about Taiwan? Mainland 1.5 billion people don’t have a say nor the US and the rest of the world. We live in the 21st century bro. Only Taiwanese should decide who they belong to.
You are so spot on about the old history of China, that's a burden as well since you can always find all kind of historical precedents to judge the action taken by the governments on each side of the strait : looking back in history, China always prosper during unification & suffer during separation, and even the concequence of a military movement would be considered as tolerable as when you put that in the thousands year of history, that's nothing. If Xi wants to be remembered as a great leader in history, as he claimed to be, there is no other better achievement currently than taking back Taiwan. So in a way that's inevitable & people needs to prepare for that.
The strange thing is looking at history China does terribly in foreign wars
You made it very clear that legally Taiwan is China's territory, but China is still in a state of civil war with a physical ceasefire, and the claim that Taiwan is a sovereign state is just an emotional product, they want to do it, but haven't done it, or don't dare to do it, and I find it very strange that, You don't even realize that those who support Taiwan independence even violate the constitution of the Republic of China. In my opinion, Taiwan independence and those who support Taiwan independence can only be described in one sentence: after saying a lie a thousand times, they take it seriously
Chinas military brass openly threatens invasion should they declare independence, so they can’t.
@@ygthemoth9425 So Taiwan is still a Chinese territory
@@LyuChen94 Not quite, the RoC is still a sovereign state which has full control of over the island of Taiwan, it just does not have the political capital to drop their de-jure territorial claims over China.
@@ygthemoth9425 The Republic of China controls not only Taiwan Island, Diaoyu Island, Penghu Island and other affiliated islands in China's Taiwan Province, but also two islands in Fujian Province (Kinmen and Matsu), Dongsha Islands in Guangdong Province, and affiliated islands in Nansha Islands in Hainan Province (Taiping Island). Taiwan's Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), as a party that has written Taiwan independence into its platform, It is not that it does not have the political capital to achieve Taiwan independence, but that it does not have the military capital. If it wants to amend the constitution, its seats in the legislature can support it to pass the constitutional amendment, but it does not dare to do so
Chinese think of Taiwan as a satellite territory of an ancient civilization rooted on the mainland. Taiwanese think of Taiwan as the epicenter of a localized perspective of history. Both are forms of national myth making. How true any of these are doesn’t really matter. Myth making is all national identity is: the stories we tell ourselves about our identity and relative place in the world. But it does shed some light on the difference of perspectives
TLDR something something big stick diplomacy will decide
@@Squared_Table Absolutely. Taiwan's future will ultimately be determined by China's relationship with SEA neighbors and US-China relations. Independence is only ever given to those who are capable of keeping it. Everything else is pretext
Pretty unbiased as things go. I kinda wished that you touched the security side of things like how vital it is for sea traffic of the first island chain and it being like Kaliningrad.
There is no such thing as "security". US allies securing the sea lane means China is under threat. China securing the sea lane means Japan, SK, etc are under threat.
There is no security, only control.
@@elmohead kinda sounds like the definition of Pax (latin for peace, some call the present pax Americana).
@@returnnull3476 calling it security is false though. It's only ever secure for one side. Calling it peace or control is more accurate.
谢谢你能从两个方面来介绍，作为中国人（被taiwannese称作是大陆人)，我希望两岸不要战争，和平走向统一，也不希望这些所谓的taiwannese来分裂两岸之间关系，因为在台湾除你们台独以外也有很多希望统一的人。希望世界和平，少些对于政治体系的偏见，人民能生活的好就行
人民生活的好就行，和统不统一没关系。像香港被英国统治100多年还不是过得好好的。哪需要你？
真正爱一个人，就放手。回来的话是你的，不回来就不是你的，就祝他幸福美满。
@@cdsung6527 香港当英国殖民地，小市民生话不好，住宿常是民生问题，从没地方选举，黑社会文化存在，这也造就了香港97之前尖酸无礼但生存能力极强的文化。 2019年后，很多香港人觉得踏实多人，都希望尽快赶上大弯区，为前途而努力。
The way you skipped the history before 1600 which will show much more of the close relationship between mainland and Taiwan is very interesting
Very balanced and informative work!
One thing added is about the Demographics of Taiwan quoted from Wikipedia.
The population of Taiwan is approximately 23.30 million as of January 2023. Immigration of Han Chinese to the Penghu islands started as early as the 13th century, while settlement of the main island occurred from the 16th century during the Ming-Qing transition. Further immigration occurred when workers were imported from Fujian in the 17th century. According to governmental statistics, in the early 21st century, 95% to 97% of Taiwan's population are Han Chinese, while about 2.3% are Taiwanese of Austronesian ethnicity.[1][2] Half the population are followers of one or a mixture of 25 recognized religions.
During the 20th century, the population of Taiwan rose more than sevenfold, from about 3 million in 1905 to more than 22 million by 2001. This high growth was caused by a combination of factors, such as very high fertility rates up to the 1960s, and low mortality rates.[citation needed] In addition, there was a surge in population as the Chinese Civil War ended and the Kuomintang (KMT) forces retreated, bringing an influx of 1.2 million soldiers and civilians to Taiwan in 1948-1949, representing less than 15% of the population at the time (who constitute approximately 10% of the population in 2004[3]).[4][2][5] Consequently, the population growth rate after that was very rapid, especially in the late 1940s and 1950s, with an effective annual growth rate as high as 3.68% during 1951-1956.
Fertility rates decreased gradually thereafter; in 1984 the rate reached the replacement level (2.1 children per woman, which is needed to replace the existing population). Fertility rates have continued to decline. In 2010, Taiwan had a population growth of less than 0.2% and a fertility rate of only 0.9, the lowest rate ever recorded in that country. The population of Taiwan peaked at 23.6 million in 2019 and has been continuously decreasing ever since.
Most Taiwanese speak Mandarin.
Wow. I just have to say this was a very very good video. It was informative, free from bias, presented all sides, and you had a calm demeanor free from emotion. You simply presented all the facts and let the audience form their own opinion rather than force an agenda onto them. I just subscribed. Thank you so much for making this and I look forward to more great vids!
really well done. great editing. almost cinematic!
Again a great analysis! Thank you. I’m sure that Taiwan’s narrative is definitely more appealing to the western audience, but I’d say it can also be told on most parts of the world. Scholars across the Taiwan straights have been arguing the legitimacy of each sides for decades, yet they couldn’t reach an agreement. I felt all the words have been said, and only the ruthless reality can settle this.
One thing you missed though is that US has played an important role in this matter - a much more important one than Taiwan itself. Just like you said, people living in Taiwan have been powerless in a greater geopolitical game, and this still holds true today.
I just hope this can be resolved peacefully.
Apparently the Americans and Brits are pretty good at this. lol
Taiwan is Taiwan, China is China, two different countries.
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