Makes it worse that she got pregnant during the period of time where there was some kind of restraining order in place during the investigation. Entire situation is wildly uncomfortable.
the getting pregnant is often a tactic used by abusers to hold their 'prey' closer, i saw it personally after i was put in hospital at 18mth old my mother got pregnant this continued with my 2nd sister its a common practice about abusers - they will use lines like "if we have a child i will be good' but it ties the girl to the man
I disagree, if a grooming victim says that they are ok with what happened.( not saying he groomed her obviously) It doesn't mean I should just be fine with whoever did it
English and a legal professional here, thought to be clear, not in criminal law: To be charged on a criminal charge, you have to prove guilt "beyond reasonable doubt", which equates to "you have to be 99% sure that this happened how you think it happened" and have the evidence to back up that 99% burden of proof. In my role, it "on the balance of probabilities" which equates to "more likely than not" or 51% sure, again with the evidence to back it up. A key witness pulling out, means that a key piece of the evidence, that being someone saying "that voice on the recording is Mason and I can attest under oath that this is true and correct". If that goes and his lawyer says, "fake recording AI blah blah blah" then IT ACTUALLY IS ENOUGH to not convict. So the police suspended the case, waiting for different proof, or further evidence, but none came forward. TO BE CLEAR: He is not proven innocent, he is merely the person at the centre of a case which fell apart. If someone were to sue him for damages and take him to civil court, the burden would be on the balance of "probabilities" or 51%. There is more than enough to him be found guilty in civil court, but no one is suing him, and even as you say, her family is closing around him. How do I know there is more than enough? OJ Simpson. Same thing, not enough to convict (somehow) of criminal charges, but less famously was found guilty of murder in civil court and had to pay damages to the family of the victims. Mason Greenwood is a lucky man that not only have the family protected him, but he has become a mecca to those with no agenda, a lightning rod for incels and the patron saint of right wing chauvinists.
@wik that's the standard in a court of law. You and I are not held to that standard. We can use our thinking brains and see that's he's guilty beyond any doubt.
@@wik7or214 I was explaining it from the point of view of the professionals, in this case the Crown Prosecution Service. I was literally doing this yesterday, I had to gather evidence as part of a murder investigation, where I had to assess the person concerned's mental capacity to see if he was capable of understanding the situation or if he had "mens rea" meaning "guilty mindset" - one of the two factors needed to convict in the UK - either of "mens rea" or "criminal recklessness" - in this case "on the balance of probabilities" so that the enquiry could continue down the correct path. The police then look to charge, using my evidence to prove this guy did it "beyond reasonable doubt", which is a VERY high burden. In the case of Mason, he is very lucky that the other person dropped out of the case, as if there was someone standing up and saying, under oath, "Yes, that is me on the recording. Yes, the other voice is Mason", then the dude IS IN HUGE TROUBLE!! But in this case, without that piece of evidence, the burden is too high to meet. I hope that clears things up for you. But one more piece of advice, the reason the rates of conviction for r*pe in the UK is under 2%, which is a horrifying accurate statistic, is because proving the case "beyond reasonable doubt" is incredibly hard for the professionals involved. To walk into the public square and yell "he's innocent UNTIL proven guilty" is not the most honouring thing to do for the 98% of s*x*ual assault victims who don't get justice, a path to safety or a sense that "it's over" because the system couldn't prosecute on these terms. There are probably some of the 98% in this comment section, and it's a naive sentiment, when the real world is far less black and white.
@@wik7or214 @wik7or214 I was explaining it from the point of view of the professionals, in this case the Crown Prosecution Service. I was literally doing this yesterday, I had to gather evidence as part of a m*rder investigation, where I had to assess the person concerned's mental capacity to see if he was capable of understanding the situation or if he had "mens rea" meaning "guilty mindset" - one of the two factors needed to convict in the UK - either of "mens rea" or "criminal recklessness" - in this case "on the balance of probabilities" so that the enquiry could continue down the correct path. The police then look to charge, using my evidence to prove this guy did it "beyond reasonable doubt", which is a VERY high burden. In the case of Mason, he is very lucky that the other person dropped out of the case, as if there was someone standing up and saying, under oath, "Yes, that is me on the recording. Yes, the other voice is Mason", then the dude IS IN HUGE TROUBLE!! But in this case, without that piece of evidence, the burden is too high to meet. I hope that clears things up for you. But one more piece of advice, the reason the rates of conviction for r*pe in the UK is under 2%, which is a horrifying accurate statistic, is because proving the case "beyond reasonable doubt" is incredibly hard for the professionals involved. To walk into the public square and yell "he's innocent UNTIL proven guilty" is not the most honouring thing to do for the 98% of s*x*ual assault victims who don't get justice, a path to safety or a sense that "it's over" because the system couldn't prosecute on these terms. There are probably some of the 98% in this comment section, and it's a naive sentiment, when the real world is far less black and white.
@@realcadeSeriously, they got absolutely fleeced with that sell on. Thats insane Man U manage to negotiate someone with his current PR that kind of deal.
There was a large/vocal section of the Man utd fan base that wanted him to stay despite the publicy available info. For me the leaked audio made his place at Man Utd untenable. I still hope he's able to turn his life & career around but it needed to be somewhere else and tbh I'm glad that we won't have to deal with the back and forth on Man Utd fan channels any more.
The reason he wasn’t charged was because his gf/wife dropped charges against him. It’s such a horrible/complicated situation with his partner but we can only hope that he has changed his ways
Domestic abuse often is very complicated, and no doubt even more so when the victims father doesn't give their support. I hope things are better, but it's hard to know, I just wish the best for her, and the child.
@@BoliveiraNTPW LOL complete BS. They were already broken up 3 weeks before audio leaked. She refused to press charges from the beginning which is why he was released on bail with no charges against him. He was later charged as he allegedly threatened her then later they broke the no contact while investigation was going on by having a kid together which the prosecution then dropped the case as she wasn't going to testify for them. However if the prosecution thought the audio was so damning they could of still gone to court and call her as a witness sighting that she was coerced into not testifying as DV in UK you can charge people with Coercive control without the accuser testifying.
The people defending and supporting Mason greenwood look and act exactly how I would expect… the kind of people that no woman would consensually have any interest in.
Actually its the exact opposite 😂The people that are dead against him are clinically online neckbeards who dont get any. His personal relationship flaws have nothing to do with his footballing ability.
I agree with everything you say, and i think marseille should get shamed aswell. I just find it odd that a player like Lucas Hernández(and others), who actually has a conviction of domestic violence against his wife and have also broke the restraining order, never gets talked about, nor does Bayern munich or PSG get any shame for playing this guy. i know that there is no tape or sound of him doing it but still. Maybe this is a bigger problem in football than this one situation?
Because Hernandez ALSO got back together with that same person and that same person also backpedaled on the issue. He is also married with that same person I believe.
I watch a lot of la Liga and not that it should matter but greenwood was legit fantastic on the pitch, head and shoulders better than anyone else on Getafe. If he wasn't a deplorable criminal he'd be a star at a huge club. Thank god he never scored against my team
Its not so much Marseille but the fans that are the problems. The club is trying to keep it on the downlow (as it should imo), but the fans are celebrating a wife beater...
@@thepowerofsand6180 I think some fans care more about success on the pitch as opposed to what kind of person the player is. Greenwood is by all accounts a huge signing for Marseille footballing-wise, which is what many people seem to care about.
People saying "He's innocent. Why would she go back to him if he actually hurt her?" Those people do *not* understand how abusive relationships work. I've had friends who have been in abusive relationships and more times than not, people either stay too long or they go back because of pure manipulation tactics.
Yeah you truly understand life to go on the internet and talk about someone you never met and pretty much don't know anything about him or his family beside what you read something on the internet and relate it to some hypotetical "i had friends" situation he's suddenly gulty about as well. I don't claim to know too much about the guy, but one thing i know his kid, wife and family are probably sick of people like you
@@xaltotunacheron7544people know enough that domestic violence is wrong and “besides what you read” it’s amazing people ignore recorded violence for convenience
People need to remember that the legal system is man made and imperfect. Just because someone is not convicted of somethig absolutely does not mean that they are innocent. People need to actually use their heads. Sometimes it is complicated, but with Greenwood, it is not.
united fan here. obviously things have been pretty bleak for us recently, so having this genuine wonderkid come through the youth team was incredible. i was gutted to hear what he did. i’m relieved his time at united is done.
thanks for covering this. I’ve been a fan of the club for 20 years, and now I'm questioning why. This player shouldn't have been bought, even though he's good. What he did to his wife was unjustified and shameful. The worst part is that in 2020, during the COVID period, Marseille's training center was a refuge for abused women. Now we’re chanting Greenwood’s name and making jokes about domestic violence. It's disgusting.
I think the reason why his management/agents aren't telling him to act like he repents and is a changed man, is because that would be a admission of guilt, and they want to maintain the stance that he is innocent and didn't do anything.
not surprised really France have a history with this sort of thing just look at Ben mendy bro looked really good then comitts a horrendous slew of crimes then gets a move to France.
Not just Ben Mendy, Ferland Mendy too. Lyon helped cover up his alleged violent & sexual crimes so they could ship him off to madrid and make a big profit.
As a Bradford City fan I am disgusted at my clubs announcing AT THE SAME TIME as this transfer going through, that our stadium would host a friendly between Sunderland and Marseille, honestly makes me sick
@@tariqomer4678sure but the recording is out there at the very least he is someone with questionable morals who I’m surprised anyone runs out to defend or wants to be associated with
As a United fan, the fans that defended him disgust me. The evidence is clear as day and how things played out is essentially how domestic abuse goes. I don’t think he should ever play a game again and i honestly have no idea how we sold him
*Man united......there's more than one united. Anyway, the fact that you got that much money for him is crazy. Best business man u have done in decades.
@@kieronparr3403 you're 100% right, literally anyone you actually speak to in person will say rightfully that Greenwood isn't welcome, it's just people online trying to get clicks, no one I've spoken to in the UK actually defends him at all
In England, the local police investigate and prepare a file, the Crown Prosecutor Service review the file to decide if charges should be laid against the accused. The sad fact is the UK has a really dysfunctional Justice system right now and charges like those in this case only get laid in about 5% of cases (so that's a high bar) but apparently the "Key Witness" in this case withdrew. It's a mess that will forever leave the accused as under suspicion and the full evidence will never be aired against him. Wholly unsatisfactory outcome all round especially in communicating expected behaviours to other young people in the game, I'm guessing the lack of sponsors willing to be associated with Greenwood may counter that issue. But we still remember R7's Vegas NDA and how little that affected his earning potential.
The Vegas situation was very sketchy to begin with, woman chooses to get close to him, chooses to go to his room, the very next morning reporting him, sounds almost planned just to get some money. The situation with Greenwood is vastly different especially considering all the videos that came out at the time.
I can live with bad things happening to good people, that's just life! But it really pisses me off when good things happen to bad people. That's not necessary.
If the evidence against him was indeed overwhelming and certain he would have been charged even after she withdrew accusations. But he wasn’t and she is still with him
I feel like the witnesses shouldn't have been able to back out especially after bringing charges forward. I get its their choice and probably would have been stressful/traumatic court proceedings but come on pretty clear he should have had a jail sentence. the fact their married now and have a kid is such a messed up scenario.
Gordon Strachan hit the nail on the head during the 2014 World Cup when he said that football is a game without morals. Rings true in more ways than one
He showed up at bayern in my fm save as well, couldn’t believe it when I saw that name in our first league game against them. Felt like there should be some mechanic in place to stop big teams signing him, but i guess its realistic after all
if any of the opponents playing against him dont feel "right or uncomfortable" about associating with him in the Field just dont mark him let him roam the Field alone and unmarked . LOOL
In fact : Marseille's groups of fans published several statement against him, some feminist associations did and he was booed also at a time. Even the mayor said that he didn't represent France biggest club and some of the best fans in Europe, top 1-3 in France and elite at continental level. I'm not a fan of Marseille, they are rivals of us, but I can't let it stand as it is described in the video.
Thanks for covering this and having an appropriate take on the situation. There is no level of scrutiny high enough, but you've argued the correct position reasonably and calmly. May history judge Marseille.
Either -he is a rapist -Or she presented (out of context?) evidence in such a way that painted him like this (and lied about being a victim) Either way one should have apologized this is not something you can just move on from as one is true - since we have heard and seen evidence from her and nothing from him it would be reasonable to presume the former
The issue for man u was that they where apprently forced to bring him back (apprently mason had told them he was willing to take things to court as if the police didnt have enough evidence then the club didnt) but the public backlash hammered them. On the Greenwood saying nothing part that is because he cant say anything cos if he does that case would be reopened with his quotes being used as evidence so his legal advice would be keep ur mouth shut. Ultimately I think the lass got some terrible advice from her family about the money he could provide them being more important then her well being
Not sticking up for Greenwood here but i just want to ask Z. Why should he apologise to you? Or publicly for that matter? He apologises to those who it is owed. Not everyone on the planet, i’ve never understood people that want public apologies as if thats when you’ll be okay with it.
If the "accusation" has become public, i find it very weird why he wouldnt apologize publicly as well. IF he is remorseful that is. Just to "clear his name" to some degree.
@@johanjonsson2190 But he didn’t abuse the public, the only person that deserves an apology or remorse is who it happened to, and they’re now married with a kid. Apologising to the public does absolutely nothing. I really don’t understand public apologies when what happens doesn’t effect the public.
People overestimate how much the average non-english football fan knows and or cares about Mason Greenwood and his actions. Not defending him or anything, he's a big POS in my book.
I highly doubt the people chanting his name are doing it out of ignorance. A casual fan might not know about Greenwood, but once you know him, you know of his crimes.
As a United fan, I'm just happy he's no longer our problem. After what happened, I never wanted him to play for the club again, regardless of how good he is. Some United fans did and I don't understand that but that's their opinion I guess. I'm sure he'll do well for Marseille and no one will care what happened.
These situations are always tricky because it can be hard to tell when an accusation is legitimate(amber heard) with that being said the audio file should be irrefutable evidence even without the gf/wife testimony so i would assume something must be wrong with the audio file. also I get why people say he should apologize but he was not acquitted just had his charges dropped so charges could be refiled at anytime. so if he apologizes that would be a confession and he would immediately go to jail. in short it is a much weirder situation that people realize. to be clear i don't support mason greenwood.
@@ninjalectualx based of the American justice system double jeopardy only applies to not guilty verdicts not charges being dropped. And in America the district attorney would file charges as soon as a confession is obtained in any case.
I'm a huge Atleti fan, i remember when the rumors were coming out we wanted to sign him, if we did I think I woulda stopped supporting Atleti... its like you say, that guy makes me feel uncomfortable, and associating with him in any way would just reflect his same values, or lack of values...
Honestly Ligue 1 is in my opinion dying, Mbappe just left, some of the bigger teams are having horrible seasons and now with the backlash after this move I can see it permanently falling behind Portugal or Netherlands
You nailed towards the end here. There wasn't a conviction, and wasn't enough evidence to send him to jail and curtail his civil rights. The benchmark for that is "beyond reasonable doubt", that's super high and most people would agree it makes sense - we might hate that sometimes it means obviously guilty people walk free but I think we would take that because it hugely minimizes the chance we (or anyone else) get legal punishments for things we didn't do. But that isn't what applies in everyday life. Not convicted means no legal punishment, it doesn't in any way protect you from social or civil consequences of your actions and it absolutely shouldn't. Mason Greenwood has been convicted of nothing and until that changes he should walk free and have every civil right entitled to all of us. But he has no entitlement to privilege, prestige, or his chosen line of work because those are not something you need your rights withdrawn to lose.
Zealand hitting the nail on the head again, and this is easily the best commentary on this incident you're like to see. Glad hes out of my club, but sickened that he's still able to play football. Get your second chance elsewhere mate. Thanks for making this vid.
I usually like Zealands videos, and I’m also no defender of the alleged physical abuse, or the obvious actual verbal abuse Greenwood aimed at his partner However I’m really not sure how much research Zealand did for this video. He says that greenwood should have gone to therapy and also maybe come out and done interviews, but, when United put out their original statement after their internal investigation, that was essentially what was the plan going forward. They received a back lash from the fans and all plans they did have changed when they loaned him out to Getafe. Also, on Zealands point about should United have just ripped up his contract last year, their lawyers etc clearly would have been involved with this and they didn’t seem to find a reason/seem certain that they would be able to terminate him without being sued for wrongful termination (whether rightly or wrongly). It also seems to suggest (as someone said in a previous comment) that there really feels like there’s more to this, on BOTH sides (I’m not saying she was physically abusive but it’s possible they were both toxic to each other). To find out the entire truth would mean United report being released (which is never going to happen) or greenwood and his partner doing interviews together, again not going to happen because if there is anything on both sides, greenwood isn’t the only one who gets hurt/fucked/in trouble in that situation
How did that woman become his wife after this? Also, the charges were dropped in 2023 after the witnesses backpedaled and new evidence came to light. He also became a father in July 2023, which is an interesting timing to say the least. We don't know what's going on with these people, it's crazy and honestly disgusting. Imagine this to be your family...Jesus Christ, no wonder the world is so messed up.
If i remember it all correctly no new evidence was presented that aquitted him. It was his girlfriend who dropped out as a witness wich ment a key piece of the prosecutions evidence was lost.
@@88balloonsonthewall70yeah no wonder the girl dropped the charges considering she probably pregnant at the time... The fact that she got back with him is probably the worst part, wouldn't be the first person to go back to their abuser...
@@ivandankob7112pls tell me how you stage the situation and pictures, it’s irrefutable stop trying to defend an abuser, it’s barely human to think this way
If the met police did an investigation. If his gf now wife forgave him and now has multiple kids with him. Who am I to not move on? I truly have no idea what happened… one thing is withdrawal of key witness is true. But you missed the quote that “new material came to light” was also mentioned.
I agree with almost everything, but we dont know if he showed remorse or not cuz he doesnt have to do it publicly to us. we can be angry at him for what he did. but at the end of the day, the only people that matter in this all case is him and his (now)wife. If the world was run on morals, nobody should be buying Iphones and Samsungs, because of where some components come from. i just hope they are both happy and living a normal life
could it also be that the clubs academy could be problems for talented kids? They give and give and give to these kids from young ages and they never hear the word ‘no’ so their mind is wired too think that they are entitled to everything that they want Edit - The issue is with broadcasting him getting better would be the internet doing its usual thing of ‘oh he’s doing it for the PR he’s not actually changing’
I fully dropped support for my team when they brought a huge piece of shit on board. (When Cloud9 hired Incarnation, if you care) Here's hoping that many people in Marseille do the same thing
Fans also will defend them too without question, which I think is the biggest problem imo. Like Grealish have sex with other woman while having a GF, and when people pointed this out, fans immediately defended him with "well maybe his GF let him". Like...huh? According to who? Your parasocial feelings? Why immediately take his side?
I'm not trying to equivalent anything. Its just the first example that came to my head when I wrote the comment. Another example is Marcos Alonso killed someone while drunk driving. He must have gotten a super expensive lawyer because he managed to only got a fine in the end and still have a successful career. Although I don't think he has that many fans defending him. More like they just pretend it never happened. You know, like Benzema.
Hot take, the city of Marseille is renowned for doing one specific thing really f*cking well. Personally I vote the decent people and fans of the club do that, and keep doing it until the team changes their mind on playing him ever.
Really sorry you have to weigh that up, I went through the same process when he was supposed to be returning to Manchester United and it doesn't feel good at all.
What he did was despicable, but a lot of hate towards him seems to be very performative. I suppose the bigger question in all of this is how do you reintegrate an abuser into society? Because it's a very American approach to lock away problematic people and pretend they no longer exist.
Any sign of remorse and taking appropriate steps to remedy for your transgression would be a good start. Back up your sorry with action. One of the grandest shows of compassion I have ever seen was in a news report a couple of years ago. It was about a dad who was working together with law enforcement, rehabilitation organizations and the murderer of his daughter to make sure his life would add value to society after taking so much.
![GUILTY GEAR -STRIVE- Season Pass 4 Playable Character #1 [Queen Dizzy] Trailer](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nXDsAgYXXv4/mqdefault.jpg)
I guess Mason saw that Marseille were looking for someone to fill the position of Therapist and here we are thanks to bad kerning.
Clever
@@_JaiSss_ I have to thank SNL, Celebrity Jeopardy, Horatio Sanz, and Sean Connery for that one.
But hes not though.
Makes it worse that she got pregnant during the period of time where there was some kind of restraining order in place during the investigation. Entire situation is wildly uncomfortable.
the getting pregnant is often a tactic used by abusers to hold their 'prey' closer, i saw it personally after i was put in hospital at 18mth old my mother got pregnant this continued with my 2nd sister its a common practice about abusers - they will use lines like "if we have a child i will be good' but it ties the girl to the man
Thats why the case was dropped. She was chatting rhubarb like alot of women
@@bhvillaman4401 how do you explain away the audio recording?
@scottchapman3937 i cant and neither can anyone else. She wanted the bag and got it. If shes fine with it then we have to be as well
I disagree, if a grooming victim says that they are ok with what happened.( not saying he groomed her obviously) It doesn't mean I should just be fine with whoever did it
English and a legal professional here, thought to be clear, not in criminal law:
To be charged on a criminal charge, you have to prove guilt "beyond reasonable doubt", which equates to "you have to be 99% sure that this happened how you think it happened" and have the evidence to back up that 99% burden of proof. In my role, it "on the balance of probabilities" which equates to "more likely than not" or 51% sure, again with the evidence to back it up.
A key witness pulling out, means that a key piece of the evidence, that being someone saying "that voice on the recording is Mason and I can attest under oath that this is true and correct". If that goes and his lawyer says, "fake recording AI blah blah blah" then IT ACTUALLY IS ENOUGH to not convict. So the police suspended the case, waiting for different proof, or further evidence, but none came forward.
TO BE CLEAR: He is not proven innocent, he is merely the person at the centre of a case which fell apart. If someone were to sue him for damages and take him to civil court, the burden would be on the balance of "probabilities" or 51%. There is more than enough to him be found guilty in civil court, but no one is suing him, and even as you say, her family is closing around him. How do I know there is more than enough? OJ Simpson. Same thing, not enough to convict (somehow) of criminal charges, but less famously was found guilty of murder in civil court and had to pay damages to the family of the victims.
Mason Greenwood is a lucky man that not only have the family protected him, but he has become a mecca to those with no agenda, a lightning rod for incels and the patron saint of right wing chauvinists.
This was insightful, the legal aspects that is
he doesnt need to be proven innocent, no one does, innocent UNTIL proven guilty
@wik that's the standard in a court of law. You and I are not held to that standard. We can use our thinking brains and see that's he's guilty beyond any doubt.
@@wik7or214 I was explaining it from the point of view of the professionals, in this case the Crown Prosecution Service. I was literally doing this yesterday, I had to gather evidence as part of a murder investigation, where I had to assess the person concerned's mental capacity to see if he was capable of understanding the situation or if he had "mens rea" meaning "guilty mindset" - one of the two factors needed to convict in the UK - either of "mens rea" or "criminal recklessness" - in this case "on the balance of probabilities" so that the enquiry could continue down the correct path. The police then look to charge, using my evidence to prove this guy did it "beyond reasonable doubt", which is a VERY high burden.
In the case of Mason, he is very lucky that the other person dropped out of the case, as if there was someone standing up and saying, under oath, "Yes, that is me on the recording. Yes, the other voice is Mason", then the dude IS IN HUGE TROUBLE!! But in this case, without that piece of evidence, the burden is too high to meet. I hope that clears things up for you. But one more piece of advice, the reason the rates of conviction for r*pe in the UK is under 2%, which is a horrifying accurate statistic, is because proving the case "beyond reasonable doubt" is incredibly hard for the professionals involved. To walk into the public square and yell "he's innocent UNTIL proven guilty" is not the most honouring thing to do for the 98% of s*x*ual assault victims who don't get justice, a path to safety or a sense that "it's over" because the system couldn't prosecute on these terms. There are probably some of the 98% in this comment section, and it's a naive sentiment, when the real world is far less black and white.
@@wik7or214 @wik7or214 I was explaining it from the point of view of the professionals, in this case the Crown Prosecution Service. I was literally doing this yesterday, I had to gather evidence as part of a m*rder investigation, where I had to assess the person concerned's mental capacity to see if he was capable of understanding the situation or if he had "mens rea" meaning "guilty mindset" - one of the two factors needed to convict in the UK - either of "mens rea" or "criminal recklessness" - in this case "on the balance of probabilities" so that the enquiry could continue down the correct path. The police then look to charge, using my evidence to prove this guy did it "beyond reasonable doubt", which is a VERY high burden.
In the case of Mason, he is very lucky that the other person dropped out of the case, as if there was someone standing up and saying, under oath, "Yes, that is me on the recording. Yes, the other voice is Mason", then the dude IS IN HUGE TROUBLE!! But in this case, without that piece of evidence, the burden is too high to meet. I hope that clears things up for you. But one more piece of advice, the reason the rates of conviction for r*pe in the UK is under 2%, which is a horrifying accurate statistic, is because proving the case "beyond reasonable doubt" is incredibly hard for the professionals involved. To walk into the public square and yell "he's innocent UNTIL proven guilty" is not the most honouring thing to do for the 98% of s*x*ual assault victims who don't get justice, a path to safety or a sense that "it's over" because the system couldn't prosecute on these terms. There are probably some of the 98% in this comment section, and it's a naive sentiment, when the real world is far less black and white.
thanks for taking him off our hands Marseille 😂
Not even that they gave up a bag to get him especially with the 50% sell on 🤯
@@realcadeSeriously, they got absolutely fleeced with that sell on. Thats insane Man U manage to negotiate someone with his current PR that kind of deal.
"well, he's your problem now!"
There was a large/vocal section of the Man utd fan base that wanted him to stay despite the publicy available info.
For me the leaked audio made his place at Man Utd untenable. I still hope he's able to turn his life & career around but it needed to be somewhere else and tbh I'm glad that we won't have to deal with the back and forth on Man Utd fan channels any more.
I bet you 100% there is a buy back clause in that deal
I heard that the mayor of marseille and many fans advocated against the transfer, surprised this went through tbh.
The reason he wasn’t charged was because his gf/wife dropped charges against him. It’s such a horrible/complicated situation with his partner but we can only hope that he has changed his ways
Sadly she went back to him because of ptsd. Idk, we will never know. I hope she will be okay
Domestic abuse often is very complicated, and no doubt even more so when the victims father doesn't give their support.
I hope things are better, but it's hard to know, I just wish the best for her, and the child.
@@BoliveiraNTPW LOL complete BS. They were already broken up 3 weeks before audio leaked. She refused to press charges from the beginning which is why he was released on bail with no charges against him. He was later charged as he allegedly threatened her then later they broke the no contact while investigation was going on by having a kid together which the prosecution then dropped the case as she wasn't going to testify for them. However if the prosecution thought the audio was so damning they could of still gone to court and call her as a witness sighting that she was coerced into not testifying as DV in UK you can charge people with Coercive control without the accuser testifying.
You know her personally?@@BoliveiraNTPW
@@BoliveiraNTPW”because of ptsd”? Maybe, because he’s still rich and she is worth nothing without his cash
The people defending and supporting Mason greenwood look and act exactly how I would expect… the kind of people that no woman would consensually have any interest in.
To be fair him and the chick are just as bad as each other, they were made for each other 😂
Actually its the exact opposite 😂The people that are dead against him are clinically online neckbeards who dont get any. His personal relationship flaws have nothing to do with his footballing ability.
@@dixienormus997 this is a trademark incel take. go actually interact with people bro
@@harveycooper5098 listen to yourself, you're projecting
@@harveycooper5098imagine unironically using the word incel in 2024.
I agree with everything you say, and i think marseille should get shamed aswell. I just find it odd that a player like Lucas Hernández(and others), who actually has a conviction of domestic violence against his wife and have also broke the restraining order, never gets talked about, nor does Bayern munich or PSG get any shame for playing this guy. i know that there is no tape or sound of him doing it but still. Maybe this is a bigger problem in football than this one situation?
You’re spot on with that last thing. If you’re good enough, teams won’t care about your past
Because Hernandez ALSO got back together with that same person and that same person also backpedaled on the issue. He is also married with that same person I believe.
I watch a lot of la Liga and not that it should matter but greenwood was legit fantastic on the pitch, head and shoulders better than anyone else on Getafe. If he wasn't a deplorable criminal he'd be a star at a huge club. Thank god he never scored against my team
Its not so much Marseille but the fans that are the problems. The club is trying to keep it on the downlow (as it should imo), but the fans are celebrating a wife beater...
@@thepowerofsand6180 I think some fans care more about success on the pitch as opposed to what kind of person the player is. Greenwood is by all accounts a huge signing for Marseille footballing-wise, which is what many people seem to care about.
People saying "He's innocent. Why would she go back to him if he actually hurt her?"
Those people do *not* understand how abusive relationships work. I've had friends who have been in abusive relationships and more times than not, people either stay too long or they go back because of pure manipulation tactics.
Yeah you truly understand life to go on the internet and talk about someone you never met and pretty much don't know anything about him or his family beside what you read something on the internet and relate it to some hypotetical "i had friends" situation he's suddenly gulty about as well.
I don't claim to know too much about the guy, but one thing i know his kid, wife and family are probably sick of people like you
@@xaltotunacheron7544people know enough that domestic violence is wrong and “besides what you read” it’s amazing people ignore recorded violence for convenience
@xalto hahahahaha is this a copypasta?
@@ninjalectualx copy paste from where, show me?
I dunno, it's just way too stupid to be real
You’re a phenomenal man, Zealand. Salute for calling this out.
A very informative title zealand
As always
People need to remember that the legal system is man made and imperfect. Just because someone is not convicted of somethig absolutely does not mean that they are innocent. People need to actually use their heads. Sometimes it is complicated, but with Greenwood, it is not.
united fan here. obviously things have been pretty bleak for us recently, so having this genuine wonderkid come through the youth team was incredible. i was gutted to hear what he did. i’m relieved his time at united is done.
I was so excited to watch OM, they recently signed a hometown hero ismael kone. But I don’t feel like watching a graper
Get Koné off Marseille asap, they don't deserve him
Imagine being forced to be in a lockeroom and on a pitch with this low life.
thanks for covering this. I’ve been a fan of the club for 20 years, and now I'm questioning why. This player shouldn't have been bought, even though he's good. What he did to his wife was unjustified and shameful. The worst part is that in 2020, during the COVID period, Marseille's training center was a refuge for abused women. Now we’re chanting Greenwood’s name and making jokes about domestic violence. It's disgusting.
That man should be flipping burgers
In jail
Nah that man should be dropping soap in jail
I think the reason why his management/agents aren't telling him to act like he repents and is a changed man, is because that would be a admission of guilt, and they want to maintain the stance that he is innocent and didn't do anything.
not surprised really France have a history with this sort of thing just look at Ben mendy bro looked really good then comitts a horrendous slew of crimes then gets a move to France.
Not just Ben Mendy, Ferland Mendy too. Lyon helped cover up his alleged violent & sexual crimes so they could ship him off to madrid and make a big profit.
“Morally reprehensible” summed it up dude
Respect for Marseille after this signing 📉
Respect for de zerbi 📉📉
@@masterdiscounts And it's not even Italian 🤣🤣🤣. I do not understand
📈
📈
I don't think the respect for marseille was that high to begin with, absolute shithole
As a Bradford City fan I am disgusted at my clubs announcing AT THE SAME TIME as this transfer going through, that our stadium would host a friendly between Sunderland and Marseille, honestly makes me sick
He hasnt seriously apologized and as long as he doesnt do that we shouldnt support him
The only person he needs to apologize too is the victim, but since they are married now I think he apologized to her already.
He isn't convicted
@@tariqomer4678sure but the recording is out there at the very least he is someone with questionable morals who I’m surprised anyone runs out to defend or wants to be associated with
he needs to say sorry to you?
@@garvindean6443 to stay out of prison, yes. To get support playing for a football team, you know, something that requires fans, he does
As a United fan, the fans that defended him disgust me. The evidence is clear as day and how things played out is essentially how domestic abuse goes. I don’t think he should ever play a game again and i honestly have no idea how we sold him
I'm a united fan and nobody I've spoken to wants him at Old Trafford
*Man united......there's more than one united. Anyway, the fact that you got that much money for him is crazy. Best business man u have done in decades.
@@kelvinengland3991 given the context we know which united is being referred to
@@kieronparr3403 you're 100% right, literally anyone you actually speak to in person will say rightfully that Greenwood isn't welcome, it's just people online trying to get clicks, no one I've spoken to in the UK actually defends him at all
@@kieronparr3403 given the context we do but man united fans consistently refer to their team as United and its annoying AF and sounds arrogant.
Good morning to everyone except Mason Greenwood
I hope he has the day he deserves.
In England, the local police investigate and prepare a file, the Crown Prosecutor Service review the file to decide if charges should be laid against the accused. The sad fact is the UK has a really dysfunctional Justice system right now and charges like those in this case only get laid in about 5% of cases (so that's a high bar) but apparently the "Key Witness" in this case withdrew. It's a mess that will forever leave the accused as under suspicion and the full evidence will never be aired against him. Wholly unsatisfactory outcome all round especially in communicating expected behaviours to other young people in the game, I'm guessing the lack of sponsors willing to be associated with Greenwood may counter that issue. But we still remember R7's Vegas NDA and how little that affected his earning potential.
The Vegas situation was very sketchy to begin with, woman chooses to get close to him, chooses to go to his room, the very next morning reporting him, sounds almost planned just to get some money.
The situation with Greenwood is vastly different especially considering all the videos that came out at the time.
Welcome to the law of the land. Terrible people do not always get punished.
Even worse is the amendment to the law in a lot of places: Terrible people are to be praised.
I can live with bad things happening to good people, that's just life! But it really pisses me off when good things happen to bad people. That's not necessary.
If the evidence against him was indeed overwhelming and certain he would have been charged even after she withdrew accusations. But he wasn’t and she is still with him
@@ivandankob7112She's with him because he has abused her into it. There have been many such cases.
you can get punished even if the law doesn't do it. If everyone hates you it works just like a prison. It's in the people's hands always
Zealand has fallen off he's resorted to punctuation only titles. What's next? "!"
Hes going to use the Unknown alphabet from Pokémon lol
I feel like the witnesses shouldn't have been able to back out especially after bringing charges forward. I get its their choice and probably would have been stressful/traumatic court proceedings but come on pretty clear he should have had a jail sentence. the fact their married now and have a kid is such a messed up scenario.
Gordon Strachan hit the nail on the head during the 2014 World Cup when he said that football is a game without morals. Rings true in more ways than one
Not the only bad egg English man they've signed this century.
He showed up at bayern in my fm save as well, couldn’t believe it when I saw that name in our first league game against them. Felt like there should be some mechanic in place to stop big teams signing him, but i guess its realistic after all
Considering how Zealand described Greenwood, I thought Greenwood and Man U deserves each other.
it’s so weird seeing people defend greenwood on twitter 💀
Domestic Abuse fans got their guy
You'd better have the name "Trotter" on the bsck of that Peckham Town shirt...
Day 57 of asking Zealand to buy a cardboard cutout of Lamine Yamal to "animate" his setup
?
I support
I lit thought this was some anime thing
if any of the opponents playing against him dont feel "right or uncomfortable" about associating with him in the Field just dont mark him let him roam the Field alone and unmarked . LOOL
In fact : Marseille's groups of fans published several statement against him, some feminist associations did and he was booed also at a time. Even the mayor said that he didn't represent France biggest club and some of the best fans in Europe, top 1-3 in France and elite at continental level.
I'm not a fan of Marseille, they are rivals of us, but I can't let it stand as it is described in the video.
Top tier title. Mr. Beast has nothin on ya
Thanks for covering this and having an appropriate take on the situation.
There is no level of scrutiny high enough, but you've argued the correct position reasonably and calmly.
May history judge Marseille.
Morals don’t pay the bills though Zealand
TY for making this video... it absolutely needs to be said over and over again
Either
-he is a rapist
-Or she presented (out of context?) evidence in such a way that painted him like this (and lied about being a victim)
Either way one should have apologized this is not something you can just move on from as one is true - since we have heard and seen evidence from her and nothing from him it would be reasonable to presume the former
With Man Us recent history, watch this guy turn into a star.
The issue for man u was that they where apprently forced to bring him back (apprently mason had told them he was willing to take things to court as if the police didnt have enough evidence then the club didnt) but the public backlash hammered them.
On the Greenwood saying nothing part that is because he cant say anything cos if he does that case would be reopened with his quotes being used as evidence so his legal advice would be keep ur mouth shut. Ultimately I think the lass got some terrible advice from her family about the money he could provide them being more important then her well being
Not sticking up for Greenwood here but i just want to ask Z. Why should he apologise to you? Or publicly for that matter? He apologises to those who it is owed. Not everyone on the planet, i’ve never understood people that want public apologies as if thats when you’ll be okay with it.
If the "accusation" has become public, i find it very weird why he wouldnt apologize publicly as well. IF he is remorseful that is.
Just to "clear his name" to some degree.
@@johanjonsson2190 But he didn’t abuse the public, the only person that deserves an apology or remorse is who it happened to, and they’re now married with a kid. Apologising to the public does absolutely nothing. I really don’t understand public apologies when what happens doesn’t effect the public.
People overestimate how much the average non-english football fan knows and or cares about Mason Greenwood and his actions. Not defending him or anything, he's a big POS in my book.
I highly doubt the people chanting his name are doing it out of ignorance. A casual fan might not know about Greenwood, but once you know him, you know of his crimes.
Obviously, he fits right in, in France.
As a United fan, I'm just happy he's no longer our problem. After what happened, I never wanted him to play for the club again, regardless of how good he is. Some United fans did and I don't understand that but that's their opinion I guess. I'm sure he'll do well for Marseille and no one will care what happened.
These situations are always tricky because it can be hard to tell when an accusation is legitimate(amber heard) with that being said the audio file should be irrefutable evidence even without the gf/wife testimony so i would assume something must be wrong with the audio file. also I get why people say he should apologize but he was not acquitted just had his charges dropped so charges could be refiled at anytime. so if he apologizes that would be a confession and he would immediately go to jail. in short it is a much weirder situation that people realize. to be clear i don't support mason greenwood.
No, an apology is not a confession 🤦♀️ the court doesn't want to discourage positive actions.
Why would you just make stuff up when you don't know?
@@ninjalectualx to apologize he would have to acknowledge his action which would be an admission of guilt so a confession
@@ninjalectualx based of the American justice system double jeopardy only applies to not guilty verdicts not charges being dropped. And in America the district attorney would file charges as soon as a confession is obtained in any case.
That Peckham shirt is PEAK!
For women out there in France especially in Marseille. Please be careful
It doesn't matter if you're a convicted rapist or if there is just undoubtable proof that you're a rapist. You're still a rapist.
Peckham town. Nice. Hope it says Del boy on the back.
@Zealand, It isn't about cancel culture. Over here, if someone is considered a baller, you'll be pretty much forgiven for anything.
As long as his not my clubs problem, Amen
Lmao I was happy when he signed with marseille cause it meant he wasn’t coming to Juve lol. Last thing we need rn is a rapist on our team lol
Idiotic take 🤡🤡
I'm a huge Atleti fan, i remember when the rumors were coming out we wanted to sign him, if we did I think I woulda stopped supporting Atleti... its like you say, that guy makes me feel uncomfortable, and associating with him in any way would just reflect his same values, or lack of values...
Took an interest in Marseille for Ndiaye last year. Thank god he went to Everton now.
The way she screamed in the audio, horrifying…
Honestly Ligue 1 is in my opinion dying, Mbappe just left, some of the bigger teams are having horrible seasons and now with the backlash after this move I can see it permanently falling behind Portugal or Netherlands
The downfall of Ligue 1 we will be there 🙏
No TV deal either
You nailed towards the end here. There wasn't a conviction, and wasn't enough evidence to send him to jail and curtail his civil rights.
The benchmark for that is "beyond reasonable doubt", that's super high and most people would agree it makes sense - we might hate that sometimes it means obviously guilty people walk free but I think we would take that because it hugely minimizes the chance we (or anyone else) get legal punishments for things we didn't do.
But that isn't what applies in everyday life. Not convicted means no legal punishment, it doesn't in any way protect you from social or civil consequences of your actions and it absolutely shouldn't. Mason Greenwood has been convicted of nothing and until that changes he should walk free and have every civil right entitled to all of us. But he has no entitlement to privilege, prestige, or his chosen line of work because those are not something you need your rights withdrawn to lose.
Zealand hitting the nail on the head again, and this is easily the best commentary on this incident you're like to see. Glad hes out of my club, but sickened that he's still able to play football. Get your second chance elsewhere mate. Thanks for making this vid.
Why do you have a Peckham Town shirt😭 my mates used to play for them
Giggs 2.0 in the making
They even play the same position 💀
What happened with Giggs?
@@gaffer2602 nothing? Thats why 2.0
8:42 such an authoritative point...u mean business
What do you think about the Thomas Partey situation?
God I love you, you rare left winged american flower. More respect every day brother
I usually like Zealands videos, and I’m also no defender of the alleged physical abuse, or the obvious actual verbal abuse Greenwood aimed at his partner
However I’m really not sure how much research Zealand did for this video. He says that greenwood should have gone to therapy and also maybe come out and done interviews, but, when United put out their original statement after their internal investigation, that was essentially what was the plan going forward. They received a back lash from the fans and all plans they did have changed when they loaned him out to Getafe.
Also, on Zealands point about should United have just ripped up his contract last year, their lawyers etc clearly would have been involved with this and they didn’t seem to find a reason/seem certain that they would be able to terminate him without being sued for wrongful termination (whether rightly or wrongly). It also seems to suggest (as someone said in a previous comment) that there really feels like there’s more to this, on BOTH sides (I’m not saying she was physically abusive but it’s possible they were both toxic to each other). To find out the entire truth would mean United report being released (which is never going to happen) or greenwood and his partner doing interviews together, again not going to happen because if there is anything on both sides, greenwood isn’t the only one who gets hurt/fucked/in trouble in that situation
At the time of that evidence's release, people were claiming that it was fake. You really can't reason with some people
based zealand
Wheeeeey my local club Peckham town fc
How did that woman become his wife after this? Also, the charges were dropped in 2023 after the witnesses backpedaled and new evidence came to light. He also became a father in July 2023, which is an interesting timing to say the least. We don't know what's going on with these people, it's crazy and honestly disgusting. Imagine this to be your family...Jesus Christ, no wonder the world is so messed up.
If i remember it all correctly no new evidence was presented that aquitted him. It was his girlfriend who dropped out as a witness wich ment a key piece of the prosecutions evidence was lost.
@@88balloonsonthewall70yeah no wonder the girl dropped the charges considering she probably pregnant at the time...
The fact that she got back with him is probably the worst part, wouldn't be the first person to go back to their abuser...
@@thepowerofsand6180or she just loves his money and was staging the situation to begin with
@@ivandankob7112pls tell me how you stage the situation and pictures, it’s irrefutable stop trying to defend an abuser, it’s barely human to think this way
@@ryanmills8416
Not saying it is staged. But it can be staged.
surprised he hasn't keynoted the republican national convention, they'd love him
I think he couldn't choose between them and the dems.
@rap huh? The dems have major problems but they don't support sex crimes
Yes because the democrats are the barometer for morality 😂
You can be innocent till prevent guilty in the court of law , but in the public opinion everyone knows who you are
Thing is, most people don't care.
Look at all the comments under his transfer news on social media on pages like Fab Romano and ESPN.
If the met police did an investigation. If his gf now wife forgave him and now has multiple kids with him. Who am I to not move on? I truly have no idea what happened… one thing is withdrawal of key witness is true. But you missed the quote that “new material came to light” was also mentioned.
maqwell explain for some reason is a personal lowkey favorite twitter account of mine off topic
I agree with almost everything, but we dont know if he showed remorse or not cuz he doesnt have to do it publicly to us. we can be angry at him for what he did. but at the end of the day, the only people that matter in this all case is him and his (now)wife. If the world was run on morals, nobody should be buying Iphones and Samsungs, because of where some components come from. i just hope they are both happy and living a normal life
Well that’s me not watching Ligue 1 ever again I’m gonna miss it😢
(I have never watched that farmers league)
We’ll just have to settle on watching the farmers premier league
Playing football for a professional team is like 5th or 6th chance, 2nd chance would be not being in prison
If I were a OM fan right now. I'd be livid, even disgusted with my club right now.
He's such a ripist that she stayed with him AND had his baby.
You man babies need to stop crying, most relationships are toxic nowadays
@eavyeavy2864 You say that like it's acceptable. It isn't.
could it also be that the clubs academy could be problems for talented kids? They give and give and give to these kids from young ages and they never hear the word ‘no’ so their mind is wired too think that they are entitled to everything that they want
Edit - The issue is with broadcasting him getting better would be the internet doing its usual thing of ‘oh he’s doing it for the PR he’s not actually changing’
Confusing signing also given the financial situation of the French league, 26+5 is a lot of money and they’d have to sell him at over 50 to break even
The thing is he can't ask for a mea culpa right now. If he does that admits fault when up to now he is considered innocent.
Are you surprised, I mean look at Deshaun Watson.
I fully dropped support for my team when they brought a huge piece of shit on board. (When Cloud9 hired Incarnation, if you care)
Here's hoping that many people in Marseille do the same thing
Good job running
I think people would be surprised how a lot of these young millionaire men are behind closed doors and with women
Fans also will defend them too without question, which I think is the biggest problem imo.
Like Grealish have sex with other woman while having a GF, and when people pointed this out, fans immediately defended him with "well maybe his GF let him". Like...huh? According to who? Your parasocial feelings? Why immediately take his side?
Cheating on your GF is distasteful but not a crime. If you want to hate on Grealish the drunk driving is *right there*
@@IsaacSperrowI don’t think cheating is quite on the same level as rape and domestic abuse
I'm not trying to equivalent anything. Its just the first example that came to my head when I wrote the comment.
Another example is Marcos Alonso killed someone while drunk driving. He must have gotten a super expensive lawyer because he managed to only got a fine in the end and still have a successful career. Although I don't think he has that many fans defending him. More like they just pretend it never happened. You know, like Benzema.
Abusive relationships are as addictive as some hard drugs. Could be why the girl stayed with him.
Me, not knowing peoples faces that well ready to write a comment about how theres nothing wrong here
Z - So, Mason Greenwood
Me - AH! I see
Mendy is playing ligue 1 as well isnt he? Adam Johnsons agent should tout him to french clubs..
Speak the truth Z
1120 days without background
Just glad hes gone. This is now behind United.
Rapists do not deserve a second chance
Bro just got lucky all because witnesses dropped from the case. Lol! Yeah I would be pissed at him on my team.
I'm not sure if it was lucky, I doubt he or his legal team had nothing to do with the witnesses dropping out
@@DEFGECD Don't tell me they threaten witnesses? I know Andrew Tate has had his lawyers doing that to women coming forward in that case.
Rumor has it it was the victim's own dad telling her to just suffer the abuse so she and her family can live the rich life
@@DEFGECDlol
Its obvious a deal was made, he marries her so they get money from him and they drop the charges.
Hot take, the city of Marseille is renowned for doing one specific thing really f*cking well. Personally I vote the decent people and fans of the club do that, and keep doing it until the team changes their mind on playing him ever.
Redemption comes after repentance. Seems so obvious..
I've been a Marseille fan for 20 years , I'll not support them while ever he's there.
Really sorry you have to weigh that up, I went through the same process when he was supposed to be returning to Manchester United and it doesn't feel good at all.
What he did was despicable, but a lot of hate towards him seems to be very performative. I suppose the bigger question in all of this is how do you reintegrate an abuser into society? Because it's a very American approach to lock away problematic people and pretend they no longer exist.
Any sign of remorse and taking appropriate steps to remedy for your transgression would be a good start. Back up your sorry with action. One of the grandest shows of compassion I have ever seen was in a news report a couple of years ago. It was about a dad who was working together with law enforcement, rehabilitation organizations and the murderer of his daughter to make sure his life would add value to society after taking so much.