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- Опубликовано: 25 окт 2024
- Element 14 shipped Dave some chips in just "anti-static" packaging, instead of proper "static shielding" bags. So he decided to revisit the anti-static bag myth he mentioned in episode #3, but this time doing some static measurements and actually trying to kill a chip.
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Many years ago (about 20ish) in my early Navy career, we had to go through ESD training. They brought a guy out and he demonstrated with an ESD gun and a light-up receiver bullet (it lit up when it sensed voltage) a few things:
1) you are correct that the pink poly bags don't stop ESD from passing through, yet they do stop a charge from building by friction.
2) while the charcoal bags do block ESD from an external source, they do generate a charge internally if a part bounces/rubs around inside. There was a part of your video where you started going down this road by briefly mentioning it.
3) the proper way to fully prevent ESD damage to parts is to wrap the part in the pink poly (or tubes) first, THEN put the poly-wrapped part inside the charcoal bag. Using this method, there was no way for an external ESD charge to get through to the part, and if the part bounced/rubbed around inside the bag, it didn't build a charge either.
It's always driven me nuts when companies either just wrap parts in one type of bag or another, or even worse, they put the part in the charcoal bag, THEN inside a pink poly bag...totally backwards. I know many companies follow the 'ESD is a myth' mentality - we were guilty of it as well - and I think most parts are somewhat robust in this regard, we did have a couple pieces of equipment that were sensitive to ESD enough that if you breathed on it, it would blow a chip...lol.
Anyway, just wanted to point that out, even though this video is pretty old. Just recently found your channel and I'm loving watching the videos so far!
Will point out that nowadays you don't need to use two bags. Proper shielding bags are made from several layers - conductive layer in the middle and antistatic layers outside and inside the bags. So the parts are protected by shielding and the bag doesn't generate static charge inside and outside as well.
We use the "static bleed" pink bags and tubes for on the bench storage and station to station transport. For customer distribution we us either the metalized film or carbon foam. The pink stuff is useful, but like any tool, use it properly or pay the price :P
It's my natural voice, so no, I won't stop.
You have started talking a bit faster now 8 years later.
Lol I don't know what you're talking about but you're hella funny 😂
I used to find it annoying and painful to listen to. But the content made me just endure it and keep watching. Now I'm used to your voice and it's not an issue any more! Awesome channel + content!
Rapid Electronics falls foul of this. They sent me a bunch of static sensitive parts in standard resealable bags, and only a couple in the pink antistatic bags because they were 'particularly sensitive'. No shielding whatsoever. They told me they'd found that to be sufficient - strange considering a few of the parts were DOA. They sent replacements but nothing's changed.
The Steve Irwin of electronics.
He'd top it off if he said crikey once in awhile.
Ha ha. he does it every once in a while XD
the best is when he opens something he likes lol.. some of the stuff he says just kills me.
Awesome Dave, great watching.I always thought the pink bags were shit.
Here's a good story, I remember being told a story when I was working on the old NZ electrical scada system, they were having a lot of failed boards killed by ESD, but couldn't figure out why as the board were shipped in proper bags. Once they followed the supply train it turned out the store men were removing the boards form the bags, putting them on the shelves, and then when they were issuing the boards putting them back the bags!!
Id love to see another test where you try the same thing with a silver bag that has been used over and over, and has a bunch of folds in it, and creases. Thanks for the great video.
What a cool voltmeter!!
Thanks for the support, glad you liked it.
The pink bags do project a SEP (Someone Else's Problem) field, so electric current goes and find something else to affect.
+nitehawk86 RIP Douglas!
Hi Dave!
Nice video! I have been working with my Element 14 Rep for years now trying to change their shipping practices. Element 14 is the worst I have ever seen for bad shipping methods. You know once they sent me one.... yes one 8050 resistor in a 3" x 4" plastic anti-static case. I love the case... but probably cost them a lot to pack that resistor.... LOL
EEVblog Wait, you didn't try to kill it through the shielded bag!
+William Hayden yeeeeh you are right man
+William Hayden 17:40 - he tried, but couldn't kill a chip though a proper shielded bag.
AnarchyEngineer Meh, seeing's believing mate.
He did establish enough facts with the voltmeter to imply that killing it would have been nearly impossible in the shielded bag, but I do agree that the experimental design might have been improved. Regardless, he did show that the pink bags only provide partial protection, and that's the point.
William Hayden it wasn't science
@DFCad1 Err, I'm not dumb enough to come to the conclusion that ESD tubes are safe based on some simple ad-hock testing with a peizo-lighter zapper! The whole ESD industry is heavily researched and built around the fact that ESD tubes do not provide adequate protection. I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't kill the chip through the ESD tube, but it was not entirely unexpected.
so in other words when they say it's antistatic, they are totally correct. they don't say it's statically shielded. So if my parts are shipped in pink bags and or tubes and they move about in transit no static will be generated, and if the packaging is processed an a static free environment and the depacker or packer is wearing the straps etc. that they should all is hunky dory. I'd rather that you (instead of ranting over a non-event) talk about how they too often don't package their chips in a manner that maintains pin integrity or how they so often send the wrong parts.
+etmax1 Yes, they are correct.
+etmax1 Had a vendor send stepping motor drivers for production. One out of ten were defective. Found a new vendor that shipped properly, never a bad part. Packaging was the difference.
*****
I don't disagree with that, what I'm saying is that antistatic does not need to be static shielding. They are 2 different functions. Static shielding is antistatic, but not necessarily the reverse.
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Are the bags the mail come in labelled antistatic??
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A static free environment is a work bench with either conductive or antistatic mat. The operator wears either a wrist strap or has an ankle strap and the floors are antistatic. There's IEC specifications for what is a static free environement. The back of a mail van is not one of them
Same here, at first I was watching, because I wanted some multimeter review, but now I've been watching his videos for approx, 2 hours or so. This is great!
Very nice mythbusting video. One more thing i would like to see about this myth is to actually kill a device with statics, not piezo, that generates more stable long time current, than statics itself.
My monitor died. You should stick a warning to that video :(
This video should be shown to all the employees of CEX (shop that deals with buying seeling and swapping of 2nd hand stuff)
Remember being in there a month back and the manager told the tellar make sure to ask the customer if he wants a bag incase there is any static.
Needless to say it was not a shielded bag,
Went to a computer shop for a few sticks of memory, back in the DIMM/SIMM days, and the guy went to the cabinet, opened the metal-film bag, pulled out 2 sticks by holding the edge connectors, while standing on carpet (you know the carpet that you easily get a zap off) and proceeded to hand me the bare modules, I'm sorry to say that I went balistic, there was no way in hell I was going to touch those modules, I asked for metal film bags, and he said "This is how we sell them, now that will be $xxx for the modules, I walked out after giving his some education about the handling of those devices, and all the customers I guess thought I knew what I was talking about also left the shop.
Anti-static bags aren't conductive thus they provide not shielding. They are "anti-static" to the extent that they are made such that they don't tend to build up a charge themselves. Generally in shipping I am guessing they constitute a cheaper alternative. On the off chance something zaps a chip it may be cheaper just to resend another chip but I don't know.
Oh, he covers this pretty quick in the video.
It's the discharge current that is destructive. A high electric field alone will not destroy devices. The pink-poly and plastic tube will provide some ESD protection just do to the fact the plastic bag material has very low conductivity from outside to inside. When you grab a part through a pink-poly bag, you can transfer some charge to the part because the electric field will pass right through the plastic. When you or someone else reaches into the bag to remove it before the charge has time to bleed-off through the weakly conductive coating, that's when a part can get zapped. If you make sure you allow enough time for any potential difference to equalize to the mat the bag is setting on, and do-not subject the pink-poly bags to voltages that cause dielectric breakdown in the plastic, pink-poly bags can be quite safe. A shielding bag will block external electric fields like a Faraday cage.
This video is a million times more entertaining than my work's ESD training video!
The pink poly is an older tech than the nickel bags. Another fun fact is that the organic coating will, over time, cause embrittlement of plastics like housings. This is manifested particularly in areas of induced stress like mechanical screw inserts.
Hey, the chip recovered at last! =)
16:55
@TheCaptainD82 Ah, that's editing for you. That's actually a new chip installed for further testing. That scene just happened to have the commentary I wanted at that point.
not surprised you killed those chips if you sparked them with a piezo igniter!! not something that should happen in normal storage and use...hopefully!
True. The pink bags are actually for things like hardware. They are not to provide any protection but just to provide a way to handle hardware in something that won't create a charge. ONLY the metallic black bags protect what is in them.
Thanks for the video. Keep up the good work!
One point, that tan stuff from your makerbot you were demonstrating with isn't mylar, it's polyimide (ie, kapton).
mylar would also generate a big charge on your meter.
It's all well and good using a piezo spark generator to kill chips but you'd have to shuffle around on a carpet for 3 hours or ruffle your nylon t-shirt forever to get a spark that of that magnitude to kill a an IC. Said carpets and clothing would not be present in an EE environment.
But they could easily be present outside the anti-static work zone. Like in a post office where thousands of pieces of mail are rubbed against each other. So the shielded bags are needed for transport outside the designated ESD safe zones.
P,S As usual your standards are up with the pros. excellent!
I don't think I've ever been bothered about ESD, my microcontrollers and general cmos devices just get thrown where ever I have space. I don't think I have ever killed a chip this way, although my haphazard treatment of them sometimes means pins break off! I'm a bit more cautious of expensive stuff like computer hardware, but that only goes as far as holding and earthed metal object.
It's not even unknown for me to unsolder a pic chip over a gas stove and reuse it in another project.
Daniel Astbury Doesn't matter for you, but for companies that have to follow ISO standards it's very important. Get it wrong once and you could loose certification and therefore a load of business.
MichaelKingsfordGray I don't usually expect my projects to last. If I did, or it was important I would take more care. I'm not in anyway particularly 'good' at electronics and my projects are usually just proof of concept.
Daniel Astbury You are probably just very lucky, in my workshop I never have static issues but at my desk I feel sparks flying from my headphones to my ears and hear the crackling. Guess what happens if I touch a chip :-(
Daniel Astbury - Not asking for details, but what is your climate like snd do you use air conditioning?
Try industrial anti static spray if your desk is staticky
Putting a fat spark across thin polythene will puncture it, so basically the same as drilling a hole and then complaining there's a leak! The main point to realise about ESD is that certain components, notably power mosfets, are very sensitive to gate overvoltage. Even as little as 30v can damage one of these, and the current required to do damage is very small. Hence, very careful handling of these is required when off-board. Most ICs are nowhere near as sensitive as that.
Next time you order a component from E14 the warehouse guys will be moonwalking across a Nylon carpet before wrapping them.
In aviation they always stress using anti static straps and protective caps and bags. Like in the video stray charges can make something not work but quite often they can cause something to have intermittent faults. Not good at 500 mph.
@Listn2CKY No, they simply screwed up, and have admitted it. Element 14/Farnell usually semiconductors in proper static shielding bags.
@mdesm2005 I had to take it out of the circuit to put in the bag and the tube, of course. A populated board has the pins connected to other devices and power rails etc. This can effectively make the inputs more robust. But a populated board can also increase the chance of a charge entering a pin too, so it's a bit of give and take.
@DFCad1 There is not logical room to conclude that. I *know* that neither is proper ESD protection, because there is countless science to back that up. I was just having some fun here, it was hardly rigorous. But I set out to do what I wanted to do, kill a chip through an ESD bag. If you think an ESD bag or tube is "adequate" or "good enough", then I suggest you go get some proper ESD training, because you are wrong. I'll leave it to the fools to argue over "good enough".
I have never once seen a chip killed by esd in normal handling, in my life. Glad you showed it actually happening, although heavily on purpose
+nikotwenty Some devices are more sensitive than others. I've killed some especially sensitive devices with a finger zap in dry weather before. Not fun.
+nikotwenty Same here. I've never been careful, never used a wrist strap and never had a problem. Of course I could just be lucky.
All the kits I get from China have microcontrollers and other sensitive devices stuck unto pieces of styrofoam, wrapped in cling wrap, stuffed into ziplock bags, wrapped in bubble wrap, stuck in cheap mailing bags, handled none-too-carefully by the post... and I have yet to get a destroyed chip. I have received a few dead LEDs, but diodes, transistors, MOSFETS, TTLS, CMOS, all the sensitive semiconductors all work OK when I build the kits.
@DFCad1 Anyone trying to teach proper engineering technique and practice will never be wrong.
These bags are used for stopping the generation of static buildup, not for protection against an external static charge, so normal movement in transportation from the manufacturer to buyer won't build a static charge and kill the device. Please don't bash something you believe should perform in a manner it was not designed for. If you want a metalized bag, then ask for one.
+Dave Cook he wasn't bashing something for not performing in a manner it was not designed for. he was bashing the use of such packaging in cases where it should not be. The point is the pink bags protect chips while in a ESD area but not anywhere else so if you have a chip that is not rated to survive ESD it should be in a shielded bag not one of these pink ones.
I never said the igniter has the butane in it??
You are completely wrong about the voltage. It IS hundreds to thousands of volts, those are the levels of static electricity, those voltages are required to cause the sparks you see. You can't get killed from low energy static electricity like this. Please research static electricity and the corresponding voltages. Walking across the carpet can really generate 10's thousands of volts. It doesn't kill you because the energy is incredibly low.
Or maybe because the human body electrical resistance is incredibly high?
I have watched a lot of how to videos on YT, and almost all of yours. You are by far the most knowledgeable, interesting, comprehensive and easy to understand person I have come across. Despite the Australian accent :-) ( from NZ ). Thanks for the great contribution to the electronic community. I am a subscriber, and will continue to do so.
@ 3:01..Anti-static is not Static dissipative. Otherwise, the spark would have more readily gone through the bag, not around it. Shiny bags are static shielded. The ESD mat (and wrist bands) are static dissipatiive. The pink bags are anti-static. Reference: ANSI-ESD_S541. Everything else from Dave (I have watched 50+ EEVBlog videos) is pure electronics gold - Keep it up!
@EEVblog I got some conductive boxes with conductive foam in them. they are awesome! And thanks for a good demo video!
I work in the PCB production portion of a factory, and some knucklehead from the assembly side sent back boards that needed rework (namely cause the same person screwed up the installation) two boards in one bag, which is in and of itself a violation of ESD guidelines, and sent them back in a regular old sandwich bag. Needless to say the quality team, myself included, had a shit fit. The boards, to the tune of a few hundred dollars, had to be scrapped and recycled as well. When a board with an LCD screen or something is sent to the production area (keep in mind, this is maybe a few hundred meters), they are put in an ESD shielding bag and then wrapped in anti-static pink bubble wrap, and the bins they are transported in are conductive, on a cart with a strap that drags on dissipative floors. The material handler is wearing a conductive smock and heel straps as well. A proper manufacturer takes this kind of thing seriously, and seeing chips sent thought the mail, likely in regular cardboard maybe even with styrofoam or paper packing material, is frankly painful. I've complained to Digikey about similar issues when I purchase items from them.
it's reassuring since it means that we probably only kill sensitive devices when we actually feel/hear or see a spark. we can take precautions but we should not be too afraid
Where I work, ESD is a super serious business. The entire workforce on the production and assembly floors has several layers of protection. An ESD smock that has metallic fibers that discharge static whenever a grounded surface is touched, ESD wrist straps, and ESD heel straps that discharge into the grounded floor. Even water used in sponges at soldering stations is de-ionized and although I don't fully grasp how it works entirely, I know that the water is DI so it doesn't impart any charge to your soldering iron. I think this is redundant because the iron tips are grounded thought he iron itself, but whatever, can't be too careful when we are making life saving machines that are also worth several thousand dollars each. Also, in front of many stations is grounded mats on top of the already grounded floor. We also check the integrity of the heel straps and wrist straps twice daily. Hell, we even clean our benches with a cleaner that dissipates static charges.
We also do package some boards inside pink bubble wrap if they are delicate, but they are already inside of proper shielding bags as well.
I concede. I was not aware of this distinction, or that you could have one sort of protection independent of the other. It is also worth mentioning that you don't need anything like thousands or even hundreds of volts to blow some CMOS inputs. Also, some CMOS chips, if I recall, incorporate some protection.
I was quite amazed by this meter and the demo. As was demonstrated in the video, static electricity is easily generated by small amounts of incidental rubbing, and it must be everywhere. The real question is why it so rarely causes any problem.
Since I don't have the reference to check, you are going to have to take the following as SOMETHING LIKE what I read. People have been curious about how electrically charged the earth's atmosphere is. At a few meters above the surface of the earth the voltage difference at one meter of difference in height measures in the thousands of volts. You would not be able to measure this with a normal voltmeter, because a ten meg ohm input resistance for the meter would be enough to discharge the atmosphere down to zero. In other words, most static electricity doesn't do anything, or rather appears to not exist, because so few electrons are involved. Until you can get the resistance between two points into the astronomic level, there is effectively no voltage difference, because so few electrons need to move to bring the voltage to zero.
Suppose we have some CMOS chips whose inputs are connected to the output of other CMOS chips. Then it is hard to zap the inputs with incidental static electricity, because the output resistance of the chips connected there discharges these tiny amounts of charge.
In the bag experiment you failed to kill the chip. The LED stopped blinking simply because you connected something wrong afterwards. Once you slightly moved the wires, the LED started blinking again. This actually illustrates the fact that some of those passionate antics, present in many of your videos, should rather be traded off for some scientific accuracy.
@DFCad1 BTW, I had to try several times to kill the bare chip without any protection. So it actually wasn't easy to kill that chip with the zapper even under ideal direct circumstances.
Hal, Obviously you've proven that pink "anti-static" bags don't work. Have you done any tests on used metal shielding bags, ones with pin holes or staple holes; or one that been wrinkled or creased?
We have to put all CCA and any microcircuit components in a pink poly bag with open end folded over and then place it in the silver shield bag and fold the open end over. Placing an ESD warning sticker to keep the silver bag closed. Any cca with dagger pins have to be blocked in black ESD foam. Then the box or container has to have an ESD sensitive label affixed to each face of the container or box.
This was very illuminating, I didn't realise the voltages involved, I'll keep those black bags and pink foam etc. from now on, another good vid Dave
@radioguyuk It's about teaching people proper ESD handling techniques, in case you missed it...
Great demo Dave.
I was taught that static travels on the surface of the bags, and that's why it's extremely important to full seal them. Could you try the same experiment but put the static generator inside a completely sealed bag? If what I was taught is true then the static isn't jumping through the bag but around it.
Amazingly informative! Where else would you learn things like this probably retain them for the rest of your life? Thank you. And don't let the offensive and ignorant comments get to you, Dave. They are left by people who need to make someone be smaller so they can feel bigger.
Here I thought plastic was an insulator which is why they cover wires in the stuff. I would think that a spark shouldn't pass through a plastic bag any more than it would through the plastic coating of a wire.
I realize that most insulated wires that people are likely to encounter are sub 500 volts, but still I think perfect insulators do exist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superinsulator
I know it has been a year, but here are some breakdown voltages for some common materials: www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-12/insulator-breakdown-voltage/ Note that the thickness matters and those pink bags are very thin indeed. That is why the spark can pass through them but the tube holds up significantly better (maybe not better enough though, I haven't done the calculations nor tried any experiment with one).
Good video on the differences between static dissapative and static shielding. Learned a memory reminder of how to properly pack electronics as to put on pink panties (pink static dissapative bag) then the grey skirt (grey static shield bag), after that never forgot which is supposed to go where.
Dave, Love your video blogs, especially Teardown Tuesday. I actually have used one of these grey anti static bags to hold the memory cards for my games console during travel. It's probably overkill but I'm not taking any chances. The bag was from a 320GB hard drive.
@DanglePointer Short answer: yes. Your finger can easily carry 20kV or more on a dry day (if you have ever drawn a fat spark on a doorknob or car door you have experienced this). A single touch can discharge this into an IC, causing failure or "walking wounded" - a failure that occurs hours or even days later due to the earlier damage. In industry, it is not worth the risk to not wear wrist straps. At a hobby level, it can be less intrusive or evident - still worth the $30, tho
fantastic videos! helping me grasp static at last
I've never seen one of those pink bags. Right off the bat it looks nothing like a real antistatic bag. I'm amazed that: 1) anyone would think the bag would be effective. 2) a company cheaps out so much to swap a real antistatic bag with that pink one. They're going to get more returns they have to pay for that will cost way more than they'll ever save by crapping out on cheap bags.
The correct term is "static dissipative" rather than "anti-static."
To dissipate an electric charge the electrons have to be relatively free to move, hence, a static-dissipative item must have some conductive properties.
Of course, the term "anti-static" is used for the less nerdy people who find multi-syllable 'techie' words too difficult to understand.
In the video he referred to the high resistance charge bleeding material as static dissipative and referred to the low resistance charge shorting metallized material as properly anti-static. This may or may not be the common terminology among electronic packaging professionals, I don't know. But I do know that in any field, even professionals prefer shorter words for day to day use, as a simple matter of convenience.
Aadil Shah nuancotto6868
So, if the pink bag doesn't protect from static, doesn't that make it just a regular plastic bag?
That's actually kind of embarrassing for Element 14, I hope they have changed their packaging now!
At work we are scared straight via annual training and recertification on ESD to the point I feel as if my workbench at home is a lost cause.... Dave how about a video on setting up a basic safe ESD workstation..? With a portable mat etc??
When I worked for HP back in the late 90s I learned real quick that ESD damage can not only be instant but in most cases it's cumulative. I witnessed the proof with a microscope and saw the micro damage each time I touched the chip without protection. The device still worked for the most part but eventually it died from the damage in the end.
In short though you don't see or feel Sparks it doesn't mean your not damaging the components.
That's is what's so great about Mouser, everything that "might" even be affected by static are sent in the right bags.
time to get an ESD gun...I WANT MOAR.
On a more serious note, as a complete beginner in electronics (took it up as a hobby), this made me appreciate how important it is to take into account the electrostatic properties of my workspace. Cheers!
The original 4000 series was even more sensitive to static. You were careful not to look at them sideways. That's why the manufacturers quickly came out with the 'B' series with diode protection on the inputs.
Important to remember that insulating materials do not distribute charge evenly, so you cannot take the measurement of the electric field meter as quantitative. You may generate thousands on an insulator, but only a fraction of that will discharge to a lower potential. The biggest risk for ESD sources are ungrounded conductors with large charge generating capabilities. Still, it's important to properly control static electricity if you plan on shipping unprotected integrated circuits. Also, I find it funny that resistors commonly do not come in anti static bags. If you generate a charge on that resistor, while it's inside that standard bag, then place it onto a circuit without grounding it first.... tada, you may have blown up your circuit. In a realistic setting however, these components are picked up by grounded personnel. But at the home shop, we should least think about it. If you don't have a wrist strap, always discharge yourself before touching your circuit. This could be as simple as touching a large metal plate which has been sitting for a long time. Most ICs are protected up to at least 250 volts, always check the data sheet.
@ryantheleach 10kV is nothing for static electricity, that's easily build up with many combinations of material. There is no point getting into the odds etc, either you take ESD seriously, or you don't, and take your chances.
@jpelczar Yes, because then all the leads are at the same potential, so no damage can occur. This is why conductive foam works.
Your voice is what keeps this interesting even though It quite often goes over my head.
You have best science channel!
@DrSuperSparkle Yes, they have their purpose, and I said so. But that purpose is NOT to protect devices from static damage, that is not their job.
Thanks Dave, I'm always excited to see you post another video!
The pink bags are for shipping only. They are packed in the box in an ESD safe area. When the box is received it should be opened in an ESD safe area. If the part needs to be transported out of an ESD safe area, it should be placed in a metallic bag.
When I was a kid we built out these Lighter-thingies and zapped each other. It's pretty fun to have such a device around.
So here's an oddball question: Is it safe to run PCBs on the metallic static shielding bags? From what I see here, the answer looks like "yes."
Anyway, another expense I did not need - though I am somewhat heartened by the news that a fully populated board, even of a newer design, is not likely to be destroyed. Many people have lots of PCBs (80s-90s vintages) stored in various type anti-static bags, many of which are just the pink bags.
Oh, and obviously I'll be recommending to people that they replace all their pink bags for expensive PCB storage.
Dave can you please explain more about this surface voltage meter? Thanks!
Hello, I believe the permittivity of the grey plastic bag may protect the circuits by reducing the E field. I imagine that.
In regards to your comment about the resistors not getting fried in that bag, I actually read an app note from Vishay the other day detailing how thin film resistors are susceptible to tolerance alterations from ESD. So you never know.
@Voxarp A device inside a bag is surrounded by conductive material - it is inside a Faraday cage. Setting you device on a bag leaves your device open to damage from top, sides, and charge differences along the exterior surface. It is like setting your device on an antistatic mat without proper grounding - better than the carpet, but not ideal.
Hey Dave,
I purchased some CMOS devices recently from our beloved Jaycar. The devices were 4017's.
The guy in the store took a plactic drawer from the rack full of loose 4017's, reached in and grabbed a few in his hand (no strap) and said "how many would you like". LOL
My response "None of those thanks" , and went else where.
I have since sent an Email to Jaycar. They are supposedly rectifying the problem. Dont know, havn't been back.
Earlier today I shocked my tongue with a piezoelectric igniter. I was very disappointed as I did not feel much of a zap.
On the upside the little string things in banana peels seem to be highly attracted to static. I hung one on the edge on my desk and when I click the piezoelectric igniter I can attract it quite well, even many seconds after charging which is crazy.
I can’t think of why you’d be inspired to do that... but it’s interesting.
@@genli5603 Science and a strong will to know.
Good demonstration! I hope my colleague (Gergő) will see this!
Cant believe these companies are not sticking to the ESD laws we all have to comply with when we are at work.
Heres another myth: people actually do use anti-static wrist straps.
Excellent video, have wondered about some of these bags.
another test that could be interesting is if the outside of those gray antistatic bags are okay to place those parts on (the good ones in this vid) because you often hear it said that the outside is not protected... for example, taking a new motherboard from a box and removing it from the bag... then placing it on top of the bag to build the computer.
MrDebauch It won't cause any harm to the motherboard, but won't protect it against ESD. For these bags to protect against ESD, the components has to be sealed inside the bag to create what we call a faraday cage.
Actually it is a bit worse than that. These bags work as a Faraday Cage, the charge is routed along the outside always. That is, placing such components on the outside of the bag will introduce short circuits, which can in turn make an otherwise ok voltage application destroy the device.
Best one I ever ran across were 100 Molex connector pins that were in a metalized ESD bag with ESD stickers on it. Figured the static charge that would damage a Molex pin would more than be enough to do BIG damage to me.
That foam is horrible!! They did that to you to save a negligible amount of money too. Damned bean counters!!
Hi. I'm new to electronics. How should transistors like the 2N3904 be stored? Have you made a short tutorial on safely storing and handling components besides this one? What are the inexpensive options for beginners just getting into the field, but don't have a ton of components yet? Cheers
Excellent demonstration
I thought it was common sense that those tubes didn't provide any sort of ESD Protection. I always thought it was just a more convenient way to pack them.
I ordered a couple chips from Microchip Direct. I was very impressed at the level of packaging, and how many layers of antistatic packaging they used.
@eevblog thanks for the reply dave, I've never looked into ESD and as a hobbiest i had no idea that it could build up so high so easily.
Great video, never really even considered ESD. (I'm a newbie of course). By the way so what is the proper way of storing components? What type of components are prone to ESD damage? Thanks for the videos!