Ineffective Practice is Ineffective, So Stop. (Sim Racing Tips)
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- Опубликовано: 20 июн 2024
- Why practice what not to do?
What not to do : Try and make your first lap a blinder. (because it won't be no matter how good you are)
What to do : Learn the track. Learn a path around it safely, then nibble away.
Follow me like a stalker! (please dont actually stalk me... duh)
/ emptybox_007 
Игры
I keep seeing "I practice to learn the track" type comments.
Here's the thing : This is a short term approach, WHY practice to learn the track? You must learn the track, but what is the point of learning the track if you don't intend to do anything with it?
That's a crazy question. Ask any racer about to race on a track they've never been to before. Ask them WHY practice to learn the track? what is the point of learning the track if you don't intend to do anything with it?
They do intend to do something with it. Just maybe after they figure out the spots that might land them in a wall of tires..
Yeah, this video is nonsensical and you're now trying to back it up with a leading question that you've created. People practice tracks with the intention of racing on them. The better they understand the track, the faster they can go and the better they will do in races.
Looking at it the other way, if you only practice a track by racing on it then what happens when you finally get to first but all your race practice was following other cars. If you've never had a clear track in front of you in all that race practice then you're going to struggle to get clear. That is exactly when the time you've spent learning the track will pay dividends.
Your short reply adds nothing, please expand and explain it to me.
"Also that practising just to learn the track doesn't do anything to help you, you won't be fast or consistent."
That is flat out wrong, it's complete nonsense to say that learning a track won't help you.
Again, looking at this the opposite way, you think someone learning a track by racing, crashing and coming last in races won't get bored?
My response was to the question raised "Here's the thing : This is a short term approach, WHY practice to learn the track? You must learn the track, but what is the point of learning the track if you don't intend to do anything with it?"
I was definitely arguing that point, I don't believe anyone is advocating spending 100% of your time practicing and never racing, that's a strange question to ask.
Julian Fricker - not true, there have been plenty of people stating what amounts to "I practice because... I do" comments here and elsewhere. Combine that with the average skill level displayed online in any sim it's clear there is a disconnect. You are getting confused by taking something only at face value.
The first thing I mention regarding "how I practice" IS TO LEARN THE TRACK. Do you think I am contradicting myself? It may appear so, but think it through.
At the end of the day, learning the track to a reasonable degree for your talent level is a relatively quick and simple process*. That's why this is a short term approach, it is approaching it as if that is the end goal, which doesn't amount to much. "Learning the track" is only one step - the first step - of the process. It's saying that your process ends here, which isn't particularly useful nor all that measurable.
This would be like picking up a musical instrument and saying your goal is to play one note. It may seem like a lot at the start when you don't know what to do, but very quickly does the idea of that one note fade into what it is... one note out of many. No one wants to play just one note, they want to play music. We have to learn the notes and chords - the track - by the nature of the process, but it also has to be contextualized by the musical composition - the racing - to actually be meaningful. Many chords on themselves are amazing sounding - think hotlaps in racing terms - but by themselves they are just what they are.
*It's finding time that is time consuming. Those two are distinctly different from one another.
It also doesn't matter if you are in front or behind if you've meaningfully practiced. Once you know the track, know your lines and your marks then it's all the same as the track doesn't change, your view out the windshield does. It's actually easier because you already know what you are doing rather than playing the random game of chance that is keying off of everyone else.
I'm consistantly shit, does that count? I mean, it's consistant...
If yout laptimes don't vary much, that's always good.
Dávid Kertész I consider half a second slower to be consistent. But there's no universally accepted rule.
Especially since you're going to go faster as fuel burns off.
I mean you were consistent at spelling "consistent" wrong.
Well, at least it's a start...
You think shit, you be shit! Change the mind set!
I'm really good at bad practicing.....
Ray Baker empty box is kinda a big deal
I can't wait to get iRacing
The same goes for Gran Turismo
My way of "practicing" is;
1. Learn the car/track, try setups
2. Practice for qualifying
3. Do consistent laps
On the other hand, Empty Box got nearly a 1/4 million views on this video and Samet got one person to respond to his comment. Who wins?
@Yaboh Your sense of proportion is missing. And you're here aren't you? 🤣🤣
@Yaboh"Here" is Empty Box's video...lol.
@@johnnypenso9574 Um.. Samet. Quantity is different the quality.
Or will you say Justin Bieber's good because he has fans?
@@frostbite6431 Empty Box has years in this space and is well regarded. Samet gives the same meaningless advice that people who don't know what they are doing give. Judge for yourself.
Practice doesn’t make perfect. Practice makes permanent, so practice well.
Jake so true, I have engrained horrible Apex points on many tracks...
@@CrzBonKerz21 Ditch them for a longer time (like a year), race on other tracks. Then re-learn them in other sim.
Good tip.
good one
Just like my band director used to say when I was in varsity. Practice does not make perfect. Practice makes progress.
So after I was done watching this video, I decided to actually put these tips into practise. I fired up Assetto Corsa and went for a nice and cozy Sunday drive in a BMW M3 GT2 car on Branch Hatch
(I never actually raced on this track, just some hotlapping attempts, which ofcourse failed) . I was trying to pay more attention to "marks", until I could safely drive it consistently.
Then I started picking up speed, changing some of the marks in certain areas of the track and I kept on doing this until I could spit out consistent lap times at a decent speed.
Then I went on to drive with the AI, for a seven lap race, starting 9th. Don't really recall what AI level i had set. But I also started paying more attention to what the AI was doing aswell. I looked where for example the AI was braking in corners the AI was a big chunk faster than that I was and started comparing it to my marks and I started to adapt to the marks of the AI.
Ultimately I finished the race without spinning, driving off the track or crashing into someone else and eventually snatched a podium in 3rd position.
This might be a long story but what amazes me is how this video has completely changed my approach to practicing in Sim racing for the better.
So I'd like to say thank you for making this video, as it really helped me with practicing for a race.
Jasper Steenhuis usually one the side of the tracks there are signs that mark how far the corner is. Also, often times there are billboards above that correspond with where you should brake. On Catalunya for example, on the first turn after the big straight, I brake at the 100 meter marker.
Its really been a while but my experience with bots has been... rather interesting. Most times the bots have had that "perfect" braking which us humans can't really replicate. For example on Silverstone GP after Welligton Straight into Turn 6, they would brake like 20 meters later. But I just can't keep that trailbraking so perfect and I just fly off the track.
“If you bin it, you won’t win it” -Empty Box 2018. I expect to see that on the drivers briefing page on iRacing.
Hell yes I need that, WE need that!
"To finish first, you first have to finish." - Juan Manuel Fangio
to finish first, you have to finish first
and
to finish, you have to finish
-me, 2045
Hot lappers are [some of the] the worst opponents in a race! They don't know how to run any line other than the ideal. Traffic practice matters.. as well as opposite line practice.
Edit: clarifications
I don't know if I'd call them the worst opponents, but they're definitely a type of "that guy." Granted, the hot lap line is great for when you're alone on track or if you're trying to extend your lead, but actually using your eyes and mirrors is pretty important too. lol
Actually the worst opponents in a race are the ones that are slow and dont mind crashing to protect their lead, i fnd them once too often
Most of them crash at lap 1 anyway. Being good at avoiding their cars is what matters.
+1 this video will create more than one new hot lapping moron, courtesy of box
You mean I *shouldn't* push a guy off the inside because he's on the racing line?
I only practice so I can consistently stay safe and learn tracks. I honestly don’t care how fast I am or how many races I win or lose. I’m an immersion sim racer. I just love the cars and the sensation I’m driving one. I don’t hot lap or do anything in a Sim where I’m the only car on track. I always have at least Ai around me. Helps with situational awareness.
OhItsThat agree. Situation awareness more important than hot lapping, for nubs. I was disappointed that this wasn't the first topic covered, for the logic presented in this video will train a nub to plow, once situation shifts everything he's 'pracicted' for.
You know, I thought about that if we connected what you said and relate it to ourselves when we are in the presence of others, we wouldn't devour each other. We shouldn't isolate ourselves and spend a lot of time self-pleasing, because when we go out into the world, we'll do the same to other people. I'm talking to myself here, brother. And I'm definitely not just talking racing sims. The racers (laborers for Christ) are few. When we go off God's track, we're abusing His track limits. What else is God's Word, but His guide to stay on His course to attain the crown of salvation? God's Word have always hanged on these two commandments love with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, all your strength. And love your neighbor AS YOURSELF. I gotta shut up friend 😄 The world is so crazy, they crucified a Man that not only preached these things, but lived them out perfectly. The world cannot comprehend the Spirit of truth because they do not see. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
John 9:39 - And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
John 9:5 - As long as I am in world, I am the light of the world.
Acts 13:36-41
[36]For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
[37]But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
[38]Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
[39]And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
[40]Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
[41]Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
1 Peter 2:7-8
[7]Unto you therefore which believe, he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
[8]And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Romans 6:23
[23]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Isaiah 53:5 - But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 John 4:2-3
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Romans 3:9-10,23-24
[9]What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10]As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[23]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
John 3:16-21
[16]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[19]And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20]For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
[21]But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Romans 10:8-13
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[11]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[12]For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[13]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
1 Corinthians 15:12-23
[12]Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
[13]But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
[14]And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
[15]Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
[16]For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
[17]And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
[18]Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
[19]If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
[20]But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
[21]For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[22]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Mark 16:15-16
[15]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[16]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Acts 2:38
[38]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Galatians 3:27
[27]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:43-45,53-58
[43]It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44]It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45]And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[53]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54]So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55]O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56]The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[57]But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
[58]Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
Romans 6:1-23
[1]What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[3]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[7]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[8]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[10]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[11]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[14]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[15]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[19]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[20]For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[21]What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[22]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[23]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Me too bud. I would rather enjoy driving and make friends.
@@nathanwygal5526 well you really went off the deep end with that now didn't you... 🤔
What I love about this, is that it applies to anyone, of any skill level, and I mean, any skill level.
I have a Pro/WC license on the road side of iRacing, yet last night practising for the Bathurst 12hr, I found myself plowing into corners, and by extension, plowing into walls, all because I was overly confident in my own knowledge of a car I'd used to gain said pro license, and a track I'd done thousands of laps at. If you start by driving calm and consistent, the pace comes along without it feeling any harder or less consistent, which is how those guys who can run 10 or more consecutive laps within 2 tenths of each other do it.
SMauler9 This couldn’t be more true. Unless it’s qualifying my goal is always consistent laps, i aim to get my laptime variance under about 1-2 tenths per lap relative to the previous and if i can’t do that, i don’t race.
Absolutely how it should be done, it's the #1 key to good results. It interests me how many people fail to do this, and find themselves driving really rough, and consequently wasting time, losing focus, ruining their tyres, or worst of all, getting agitated and making a far bigger error that ends their race on the spot.
same here, I'm now consistent to the point that I can often get several laps within a tenth, easily, and because I'm now madly consistent, I have better car control and I can pick up a couple if tenth a lap, occassionally, on worn tires, heavy fuel, poor conditions. Consistency doesn't just mean the same speed, it can even sometimes mean gaining speed
You probably don't deserve that license then...
Sethwell Well I did sort myself out in the end. I think 3rd in the top split Bathurst 12hr says otherwise.
Won my first online race the other day. All I had to was finish because everyone else spun out in the wet weather and quit 😊
Son...Its all about having confidence in your abilities. As my psychiatrist always says " The driver who believes, is the driver who receives."
@@kevinharkness2108 Oook that sounds kinda kinky 🤣
Pronto
Yes?
S🅱️inalla
Thank you for giving me a new perspective on how to approach practice. As a person that’s aspiring to compete in the FIA Gran Turismo Championship, I need to step up my game and try different things. My old habits aren’t working too well. Looking forward to learning more Professor Box!
Update: Applying these tactics, I’m now competitive with the top guys! Thank you Empty Box!
good example is a tipp in iRacing i read couple days ago:
Learn, how to go around the track. Then learn how to drive fast. Then learn how to drive fast in a field of cars.
As i drove an oval (stock car/charlotte motorspeedway) the other day i noticed something severe.
They had the best quali times, 0,1 sec faster then me, but in the race they could not even handle to stay behind me aroung one curve. They never lift the throttle. They never learned to drive fast with other cars around them. I started last, 12th place (strength of field was at only 2.2k with some rookies in it but still 900 higher then my iRating at this moment)
i was slower then everyone... yet i was the only one who could overtake everyone on the outside. I won with 0,021 sec difference to second place, was a close finish.
I planned my overtakes, learned how they drive before me and used their weakpoint (YES, on an OVAL TRACK :D ) to easily get past them with simply bringing more speed through the corner. They all tried to stick to the line, they slided around, never liftet the throttle. Well, after 17 of 20 laps their tyres were done.
They can only drive with fresh tyres, they never learned how to overtake with old tyres at the end of a stint.
What i noticed in a mazda race (pontiac/2015 mazda and the 2016 at Daytona Road):
The guy at P1 with an iRating of 5000 had his fasted lap at lap 19 of 20. Me at an iRating of 800 (yes, same lobby) had my fastest round at lap 19 aswell. All the others? Lap 5 to 10. Then the pitstop came and all fell down a few seconds. I even managed to overtake some of the faster mazda in the faster car group because i was more consistent as the guys with a much higher rating.
I like your advices Matt, i even use u as my spotter with crewchief haha.
Keep it up with the good videos, cheers
I just started in iRacing last week and this is something I've been noticing a lot in the MX-5 Cup. There's guys that will qualify with what I think are alien times, but when it comes to racing, if I start drafting them down the straight into a corner they get nervous and bin it, or just bin it on their own in lap 2 or 3. VIR was full of that kinda stuff.
I'm that guy that wants to drive without assists no matter what.
I usually leave ABS on. But that's about it.
Yeah! Relatable aha the first thing I do is disabling everything
@@DennisKarlsson i take the abs on some for that Japanese old man lie of you wanna feel the car usually its just me locking up hard occasionally on keyboard
@@Wabeeninc What? I don't understand. Punctuation and so on!?
@@DennisKarlsson yeah i didnt understand either :D
I'd like to do more of these types of videos, so I'd like to hear what topics you'd like me to cover. I'd also appreciate some feedback on the video itself, as I finally put a minor bit of effort into editing it. (lol)
Empty Box I love that you keep me up later than I should. Totally worth it every time.
I'd love to see a 'good tips to pick up and keep' video, highlighting defensive driving, patience, giving respect back and forth, and so on
A tutorial on bump and run :D
Like it, your earlier tutorials was my bread and butter when first messing with Race sims more.
A "physics" video, where you go over why/how the car spins, and how to tell if you can tune it out or if its simply bad driving.
One thing that I'm feeling today as a rookie is that being consistent in practice is really different than being consistent on the race. The pressure of the race affects your behaviour. I, personally, love it and I'm usually better on races. But, maybe, if you practice only, you'll lose the ability to deal with this pressure.
Practicing driving the track around other cars is important too. I don't race online very often, but almost every time I do I get rear ended in braking zones because other drivers just don't know how to drive with other cars.
Yeah it’s called braking early. Unfortunately people just want to be p1 at t1.
It happens to everyone. In a 20 car lineup, there is sure to be at least 5 people who think they can race but actually they can`t do shit.
Yeah, I don't know what's so hard to understand. 20 bunched up cars need to slow down for one turn, clearly they can't all use the same brake marker. That ties into what Empty Box was saying about adjusting your brake markers on the fly.
The same 5 guys who you somehow lap in a 5 lap race. :p
"I'll just use the car in front of me as brakes"
Oh man that hit me hard in the face, and you are absolutely right. I am "that guy" who sometimes gets the fastest lap on the chart in GT Sport and at the moment of the race ends crashing in the first lap. I was stuck in that for a few months and now I see what's wrong.
Changing your way of racing after sticking to it for a long time is hard to process and it's sad seeing some comments saying you are wrong when it's clear they are also that type of player.
Thank you for this video, it's the best thing I have seen today, and anyone who is against it better try to change its way of racing before saying something about it, only then they will see who is wrong here.
Godspeed.
We're talking about practice! We're talking about practice... We ain't talking about the race! We're talking about practice, man! When you come to the track, and you see me race... You see me race, don't you? We're not even talking about the race, the actual race, when it matters, we're talking about practice. How the hell can I make myself better by practicing?!
So this is where you ended up Al?...lol.
And that is why you are a problem.
Lmao Iverson
😂
Brennando a quote from the great Allen iverson 😭😂😂😂💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Allen Iverson intensifies...
practice? We’re talking about.. practice??
MrRacingGames sorry what we talking about? Are we talking about the game?
Evan Fife nah we talking about practice
not the game/?
"And just like that, out of nowhere, he realized the importance of a home course."
For NASCAR I usually do a few 2-5 lap runs to make sure the setup is fine, then run something close to a fuel run and then make adjustments, then another fuel length run at least. I never really focus on one lap speed, I'm more interested in 10 lap, 20 lap speed.
My practice sessions in NASCAR Heat 5 usually consist of me running a full tire run in traffic to get used to running with the AI then an YOLO lap to see what my qualifying pace is. Sometimes I'll try to run multiple lines at tracks like Auto Club and Las Vegas. And when in doubt, follow the AI
I'm still learning, but I noticed a change in my thoughts during the race since I stopped these useless practices.
For example, I used to remember the turn only watching the track, while now I'm taking references from the outside.
In addiction, I don't try to make one turn as fast as possible, but I'm starting to watch if there are corner I have to to slower to gain time in another time.
In the end, I'm starting to change my defensive and attacking moves during the race. I used to looking for the internal line at every corner, but now I try to find another ways to pass, or I press the opponent to make him do an error
(I'm not very good in English, but I hope that you understand what I'm saying)
Your english is much better than most who comment on RUclips. You're good! 👌🏽
I needed this.
I'm a very impulsive driver, always hunting the lap times rather than successfully navigate a track consistently, and as a result been fast on the track, but very prone to spinning over kerbs I have not prepared for, or going too far on my braking.
These words will stick by me, and I hope I can prepare my practice better by redesigning my approach.
Thank you EB.
As a beginner "sim racer" I would greatly appreciate more videos like this talking about or demonstrating the do's and don'ts of learning how to sim race. Although at this point driving AC I have been running laps just to learn how to drive the car around the track, learn braking points, not to mention just keep the car on the track and try and run consistent lap times. Great video.
yeah learning tracks goes like this for me
learn the bumps, curbs, what you can hit and what you cant hit. Long runs. consistancy is key. ITS CONSISTANCY that matter in racing. Now if you are slow but consistant. Sometimes you will actually beat some of the fastest drivers because they make a mistake. To get faster you have to go slower. which means learning everything about the track, the car, and how long you need to run and how long you CAN run. But Matt has pretty much all this covered lol. Great vid matt ;)
NASCAR INDY indeed, there is a specific guy who always qualifies ahead of me on pole at imola, by 2-5 tenths, yet he has never beaten me in a race.
Yet, consistancy isn't everything. I use the practice sessions just as much to refine the setup of the car. Camber angles, suspension stiffness, gear ratios, etc. Also, while seting up the gearing, I take note of what gear to be in in a certain corner.
It doesn't matter how consistent you are if you are 2 seconds slower per lap because of a poor setup.
I practice consistency only after I am confident that a small mistake won't send me backwards into a wall (god, how I hate off-throttle oversteer).
@@HepauDK So your end goal IS consistency.
@@RussRobit Consistency alone means nothing if you dilly dally at the back of the field because your setup is crap. You may brake at the exact same point every lap, but if that point is far before everyone else breaks, you lose time. The driver that uses the least amount of time per lap on average wins.
So my argument still stands.
Why doesn't anyone know how to spell "consistency". I mean, your phone tells you how to do it.
Thanks for the tips Dad!
lol
Yea, reminds me of the time i took my tvr to knockhill trackday. I was bombin it round the track blowin away astons and 911's when a old jobsworth came running outa his office, his white coat flapping in the wind shouting " oi! No professionals! " i screached to a halt, leaned out the window and said " I'm not a professional." He looked at me aghast and said " well you should be!! "
Thank you, glad I stumble upon this video..now I understand more. As a new comer trying to be a sim racer, I think before and till today I was trying to hard to be good in a short amount of time and hope that I can join all those people playing online. Did bunch of practice but never manage to get it right, because of my mind set was in the wrong. Now have to start back again. Slow and steady. Thank you again.
All very well said. Simple and informative! Always look forward to your insight!
I think that maps are a problem. It may just be me but, I find them in the way. Sure, if it's your first time at a track, OK, use the map for a couple of laps. But after 2-3 laps, it's not worth looking at. You cannot be looking at a map and racing at the same time. Same with any HUD. I think it's better to not worry about lap times, distance between racers, or even how fast you're going. I say turn it off and drive. And if anyone wants to get better at any track, turn off ALL aids and race on rain. If you find it hard to control in the rain, try a higher gear. Same thing with a high horsepower, high torque car that does not want to grip. Racing on rain will hopefully teach you throttle/brake control. Dry tracks will become your best bud. I know some of the younger racers are keen to win but speed alone will not help you. Sometimes being slow is the fastest way around. Use your brakes. They're there for a reason. If you're a beginner playing online, don't expect to win all your races. Losses will happen, no reason to get upset. The biggest piece of advice I can give: Out-in-out. That's the first thing you should learn. The out-in-out theory is the situation in which you use constantly. You will use it in every race you do. If you need examples, I'm sure there's a video about it. Oh, one more thing, once you leave out of first gear, if you race manual, you should not return to that gear. First gear is a starting gear to get the vehicle moving, not to be used otherwise. If none of this helps, get a Gran Turismo game. It will teach you everything you need to know. And for the rest of ye, I got first dislike on my comment. Dislike it, it's gonna be fun.
Joshua Spencer I think it’s great. Thanks. I’m going to try all of what you said.
I've experienced best progress when I was just racing one track combo for the fun of it. Aim to race clean and to finish races, don't fuss about the position you win in the end.
Eventually I started finishing on the podium regularly.
I am actually super proud of myself. I loved racing games as a kid, and I just recently got into Sim racing only a couple of weeks ago. Very quickly, I realized I had to completely change my mentality going into the sim as 1, it was my first time using a wheel instead of a controller, and two, I was going to use the Sim as an actual Sim. I Ioved the Gran Tourismo series growing up but I'm only now realizing I never fully utilized what the games had to offer.
On my own, I essentially figured out the exact method you're talking about in this video and it's nice to know that I'm going in the right direction. Thank-you for this video, as I'm sure there are many of those in my position that just need to hear this quick tip!
This was a great video, I really hope to see more Empty Box instructional videos. This definitely provided a lot of food for thought, and I second the comments about you doing a video on race craft. The video you did on race craft for the iRacing mixed class series might have been my all time favorite video of yours.
I have been saying this for sooo long ... so I am happy that a fellow racer (and better in describing it) takes up the "baton" thanks for a great explanation on the subject.
When I practice for races, (Especially in the IndyCar Fixed series). I'm practicing to see how the car will feel after a few laps. I'll go all out for maybe a lap or two to see how I compare to other people in the session, but after I set a "fast lap" I really don't pay much attention to the leaderboard after that. I also like to practice my pit in and pit out procedures in case of green flag pit stops during the race, especially on tracks with tight pit roads or pit roads that I'm not fully familiar with. It also never hurts to run the car out of fuel in practice to gauge the fuel mileage of the car in Series that require pit stops,(if you're too lazy to install a fuel mileage calculator like me lol)
This video is, IMO, one of THE most important simracing pieces of content on the internet. Hands down.
I wish I would have watched this video months ago!!! Thank you so much!! I've always ran countless laps around an empty track just trying to improve my lap times lap after lap after lap. Today (before I saw the video) I decided to do something different. I hopped in a car that I did not know on a track I knew very well and went straight into a race. I found that I felt comfortable in that car quicker than I would have by just doing practice sessions. After watching this video it makes perfect sense now.
racing line help should be banned globally forever :)
Mickey Startraveller im against that
George jakob don't worry, it won't happen. As nobody will learn any track with that function active... We can see the consequences in open online races.
Mickey Startraveller im using just to keep me focused on the road tbh
George jakob I just wanna help, so does this video (and it's doing a great job). You can't focus on more than one thing, so as long as you look at a colorful line, you actually miss the track and it's sorroundings. Learning it is impossible this way. Just like a father holding his kids bike and never letting go, it won't do any good for the kid. Trust your brain, you'll be amazed how quickly it will memorize the track!
Mickey Startraveller Ι know thanks very much but my case is a lot different
I practice in public practice sessions in iRacing... I fear for my car all the time! :D
@Despiser Despised whats the problem with that ? You wont start telling people to go practice before joining a practice session. If you are mad at ''newbs'' for wanting to have fun practicing with other people you are the one who should go practice by yourself.
Despiser Despised relax, gary
@Despiser Despised Thats why we have practice session... to practice... You are the selfish POS, mad at people for not going prepared into a *Practice session*. That little rant is funny though, please show us on the doll where the millenials touched you.
Despiser Despised you seem like a fun guy.
@Despiser Despised amazing comeback! Seriously though, bantering in youtube comments can be pretty fun at times, but you seem genuinely troubled. It's ok that to feel that life sucks mate, try getting involved with some new activities, meeting new people. It's easy to lose hope but there's a lot of fun to be had out there if you just dare to get out of your moms basement!
Thank you very much for the video. It will certainly help me quickly change my approach in learning the tracks.
You're spot on man. I just started running more road stuff and love the C class porche races. Who you're really speaking to is the gamer that sees racing as another game. A racer pretty much knows what practice is.
I only watched more of this video because you were using one of my dream cars.
9:48 9.48 minutes ago I didn't know how to learn the Nurburgring 2nd half
Here I am in 2024 learning something new and very useful to improve my pace and my simracing journey lets say. Thank you Empty Box for sharing your experience and explaining it with words I find very accurate (Im taking notes with all your videos). Greetings from Spain
I had already comment this video .Now I'm here after 3months of the last comment I did with like 5000laps in my fav cars in 5-7 tracks , improved my pace by 2-3 seconds ever since ; also used one of ur video to adjust my FOV properly (another 1sec gain) .Now I'm doing pretty good so far . I haven't joined any competition yet ; only did 40-50 races with good results 10th pos + .And this is all thanks to you .Whenever I feel, the needs of a good reason to drive and improve , I watch your videos .Idk how to explain how grateful I'm to be one of ur followers. :)
you said the tracks don't change over time, so learn your braking points and such... , don't these depend on your car? those change right?
He means that the surrounding area doesn't change, so for example, there won't be a 'new tree' on the side of the road or some nearby building removed. So what you use can be consistently relied on.
@Empty Box
In my oppinion i think this is completely wrong! I have tried your way of learning a track, going safe and not pushing. But i find that when i push my car to the limit and try to go as fast as i can. Thats the time when i really learn a track the best way. Thats how i become better, faster and more consistent in a race. Like the famous quote:
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go"
If you race slow and go slow everywhere. It takes longer time to learn the track, because you never find the limit. I push every corner as hard as i can until i know the ultimate line and the ultimate grip etc for that corner. And after that i try different things and try to expand the boundaries of that corner.
I found out that i can learn a track and come very very close to the world record within 20-60 minutes. And after that i do a long 1 hour race at that track. And on that race i rarely spin out as i know the limit and can drive in a safe and consistent way within tenths, lap after lap.
Cmon you said it yourself, this is a simulation with unlimited amount of tries. Why would you waste it on going slow when you can use it to find out where the limits are and therfor become faster? If you know the limits you can then race in a fast safe pace.
But maybe it all depends specifically on how fast you can learn something. Maybe a lot of guys are slow learners and its to much for them to go to fast. Maybe they cant process all that information and put it together in the best way to learn. We are all different. But i know for sure that this is the absolute slowest way for me to learn a track. Knowing the limits makes it very easy for me to stay consistent and safe.
" Lauder " lol for fucks sake
I believe he's giving advice that is more towards the Sim-Rookie. If you're already experienced with your setup, or with a certain sim (how it portrays physics), things do start coming easier. I myself am new, have less than 10 hours experience with my setup and first real sim. Coming from a console/sim-cade racing background, I immediately started pushing way to hard, overshot and oversteered every corner. Now that I'm adjusting, learning how a certain car behaves and how quickly those damned over-crest corners will put you in a loop, I'm not spending nearly as much time in practice and am able to lay down a decent time in qualifying (even when experiencing a new track).
Also, as stated by Travis Pastrana upon entering the NASCAR circuit, you can be within tenths of a lap record and still be last on the grid.
LeoNTheSickOne exactly me. Why do it slow lap By lap, when you can basically do it corner By corner? I dont really have time to practise but I still Keep up my 3+k iRating in road doing like 10-20 laps of practise per week.
This video has been incredibly helpful to me. Thanks.
Very useful information! Thank you so much! I'm an oval guy myself, but I want to dabble in the road side. I can never practice right, so I don't learn the track right, so I haven't even tried a road race yet. I think it is time to give it another shot!
Turn in point are really this important? I never really had any. The only reference point I've always set was the braking point, and for turning in, it just should come naturally. I think. :D
There are certain corners where it's useful, especially if you are living the single screen life. The longer left hander at Brands Hatch where the Indy layout splits to the right is a good example, turn in where the curb changes and you'll find the apex more often than not.
Interesting. I've never thought that "turn-in points" are real things for drivers. Personally when I started to follow the main points of a corner with my eye I found it difficult to find anything as a "turn-in point". I thought that by just following the apex after the braking point is just helps me to take the corner right every time.
Edit: It just came into my mind that I'm not even following the apex point, just the inner line of the corner.
Well you should always look where you want to the car to go, but what about when you can't see where you want the car to go? I wouldn't say I personally have all that many turn in points I can reliably recall (as opposed to brake points) but there are uses.
It's true what you're saying, but for some reason I feel like it's easier to drive the way I said. I don't know why, but except for braking points I can't find any kind of reference. When I was trying to look for the apex I found myself hesitating if I'm on the right line, am I really following the apex or it's too early or too late. I just can't see it.
The Kink at Daytona. Turn in a meter late and you're in the grass at flat chat
I used to do this a lot but now I just race AI
Simply one of the best and helpful videos i´ve ever seen. Big thanks.
The best advice that i ever had!! I was discouraged as im new to Porsche Cup in Iracing and i just couldnt get a decent lap time, i decided to relax and listen to what you saud, just did 30 laps i found myself getting better times even tho i wasn't trying to. After 20 long but very productive laps my last 10 laps were consistent and very close to each other and my time improved by 5 seconds!!
I’m a better racer than hot lapper. It’s like watching a pro nba player dunk amazing dunks but then do shit in a game.
There is a different between time trials and racing.
It sounds like Bojack Horseman is teaching me sim racing
I'm not even a SIM racer but I watch a lot of it and can take that knowledge into other things I'm passionate about. In auto sport, there is so much good wisdom to use. Great video!
Great video, one of the least talked about issues. Well put, everybody should watch this. I usually do the Sunday drive thing and I practice to gain an idea of how the car handles at the various positions around the track, how hard to push and how to set up the car to have the most pace. I'm a year late, as usual. I've found you are one of the better teachers. Viperconcept for example doesn't explain in detail the way you do. Thanks, I'll watch a few more.
It’s not that serious lol...
For some it is, for some it isnt..
Who are u to tell people how to feel about their hobby or passion?
Almost complete bullshit.
The real problem is fear before race. You need some racing against real people opponents experience to feel more comfotable and be more effective. So don't stuck in practice for too much, becouse you won't be able to show your abilities without real exp. First races are normal to be ruined)
Hey, there. I have no words to thank you for this video. It really got me from incomprehensibly (for myself of course) failing to keep the car between the lines to reasonably understanding and feeling comfortable at the track, beating the AI at the level I was used to at a track I couldn't possibly do a whole lap, with pole, by more than a second gap. Thus your advice allowed me to increase the AI level and still be competitive. Everything makes sense now. Thank you
Before I got into iracing, I watched a video about how to learn tracks. The video was from you and basically the hint was to drive slow at first and then each lap speed up just a bit. I've used that tip everytime I jump into a new car or track. Thanks!
guy who crashed 2 times in 1 min 30 secs gives advice
...you do realize it was intentional.... right?
evaldas yakaitis did you actually read the screen, or listen to anything he said? The crashes were intentional....it was said almost literally immediately when the video started....
Thanks Box. I find this video, and other comments that you have made in previous videos are making me a better driver. I'm already pretty fast and... consistent-ish (lap times in the same second if i don't make a mistake) but prone to the occasional spin or missed corner because I do drive exactly like you're telling me not to in this video - by the seat of my pants, reflex and car control. I find it useful to have these things beaten into me :D
Gold, much appreciated. I get about 2 hours tops a week to drive now a days. I've been finding I'm trying to rush my practice in order to be good enough to race. I've been getting frustrated recently because I can't get comfortable. Thanks for the reminder to just take the time to learn the track. It seems like common sense, but its quickly forgotten. I'm going to slow it down some lol. Cheers
Thank you for this video. This feels like your old ones where u drop some great tips for beginners. See you on track
Really puts into question why we practice/race. Great vid!
Zoruzer0 Simon Sinek iterates great leaders start with: **Why, How, What** Because without understanding WHY you are doing it you will never be as good as the person who understands the context of why they are doing it. _Why provides focus on how to get what you want._
Awesome video dude, this is hella good 👌. I’m glad you were able to really put all of this into a smooth dialogue that I can never seem to do when my friends get tilted in racing games lol. I’m not perfect, but a lot of my understanding of the many various factors that come into play with basically ANY game or even any thing, are just things I understand within my own thought space and I can’t really put it into the words that they need to hear, lol.
Very well said. I’m new to sim racing, AC is my thing for now and I’ve found doing the career mode to help me a lot. I gather the cars around me knowledge and mainly hitting my marks, I don’t hit one, I restart until I’m happy I can’t do anymore.
Wow, thank you so much for this. No idea why this thought hadn't occurred to me before!
I'm very new to sim racing so Thank you for showing me I'm doing somthing right I'm not just pounding around with no aim in sight I try to set myself small goals (complete 3 laps within .5 of each other) and that gives my practice perpours. With your hints and tips I hope to improve
Great video!!
I always do the practice in different steps. Learn the track, set a few
laps in default. Adjust the car where needed. When you have a decent time, make
it consistant. Do a long stint to see fuel and tyre wear. Plan your tactics. And
I learned it the hard way, always have a plan B.
The man speaks the truth and this will definitely help me! I always practiced for the sake of enjoying the car and track and testing my limits but it is also TRUE that when I got into a 24 people lobby and started P5 surrounded by cars it did make me tense. The more I'm exposed to that environment the more casual it will be on race days. That is why real drivers are so chill racing at 230+ Km/h around corners 3 guys wide. Plus, Im not consistent at all, thanks you Mr.Empty Box!
As someone who is getting into sim racing, your videos are very helpful and entertaining. Forza on the Xbox is just not cutting it anymore and I want a better racing experience, and these kind of videos will help me and other people getting into sim racing achieve that.
You just explained to me my exact habit. I go In practice pushing for fastest. I half ass a setup and I'm all over the track looking for speed and come race time im very inconsistent. So this will be my new approach to it. Thanks
Just when i thought i didnt need any advise from the box you drop knowledge like a boss.
You just described my 2 month old sim racing career without knowing me 🤐. Great video, thx
I realize this is an older video, as both a real racer and now sim racer I totally agree with your assessment. The only thing I would add for those who want to up their practice and not risk other peoples races (from an iRacing perspective) is sign up for a race, and join practice. If your having trouble with the course and or being passed, withdraw at the end of practice, and take the lessons learned and work on them.
Good post.
I’m 5 minutes in and your spitting straight facts.... people who deflect and never take accountability will feel attacked, will deflect and make excuses... without realizing there are better ways to do things.
Im with you Empty Box, my practice session are usually with alot of trafic and simulating pit stops, defending, overtakes, mommentum and other stuff
I fully understand your point. Personnally, i do only practice for the fun and the driving experience and maybe if there is good drivers, do some little battles but not for a future race because like you said, pretty uneffective unless you don't sim regularly, do a time trial instead (mostly on Iracing tho). I liked this one, one of those "questions never asked but make you think about it". Hope you do some more !
As a brand new beginner to sim racing, this video was a light bulb moment for me. Thanks very much.
I also use practice to work out braking points. I'm glad you mentioned "a pace that's suitable for your skill level" because that's the approach I've been taking. In a league with the same people you can get an idea of who's pace to aim for and then build upon. With the aliens, it's a combination of them having great skills, great hardware, and maybe a quirky setup. There's no point aiming for their pace if you can't stay in control.
Another thing worth investigating in practice is how much fuel you'll need, and if you can keep your tyres alive for as long as you need. When I'm taking part in an event I'll try to start with a practice run with way too much fuel, then see what I have left, subtract that, add a bit more back to be on the safe side, then do another run (maybe not in the same session) to confirm. That can be quite time consuming but if there are one or two weeks between events it's usually possible to find the time. I often find it amusing when the event is under way, qualifying has just finished and someone uses the chat to ask how much fuel will be needed.
Great video and something I'm guilty of; not practicing properly. This way of practice does work and testament to that was recently me and a friend did a race at Bathurst in pCars 2. A 30 minutes endurance race in GT3's. I've learned that track, where to brake, what gears to be in etc. My friend had done this to an extent also. I had the lead into T1 and over 30 minutes I was never more than 1 corner ahead of him, we were very evenly matched. He eventually out braked me, clean pass inside, into the Caltex Chase on the last lap. His braking point was much later than mine, he made up so much time in this section. We finished nose to tail 3rd and 4th, it was the most epic race I think we've ever had.
You forgot the part where you take the first lap identifying marks at a leisurely pace, stay off the racing line, and yet get drilled 3-4 times in the rear by people who would dive from their moving cars IRL because they are so out of control.
I can definitely relate to this video. I've been doing this for over twenty years and it was not until the last two years that I finally got my driving to match my Racing knowledge. I know how to race but like the video states, you still find yourself plowing into curves and not putting down the power sooner to exit curve and get to the other end quicker.
I know this may sound weird at first and I didn't plan It this way but my Road driving didn't get better until after I spent three years racing Oval cars. I feel I accidently proved to myself that the phrase "Cross Training" did work for me in this instance. Maybe It's the way that the Oval cars have to find that "Sweet Spot" on a huge curve to start acceleration for maximum speed on the other end. Now I find that looking for that "Sweet Spot" on small road course curves is easier for me.
I really like these videos and all the one you do.
If you are going to get good a racing simulators here's what I say you should do.
1. Study real life drivers and their way of racing and training
2. Make sure you know the exact layout not just where the turns are but what type of a turn, angles and distance of a turn, what follows the turn, elevation changes, straightaways, distances, etc
3. Know what car you are driving because each car comes with its own class, division, manufacturer, and possibly version
4. Understand your assists, mods, and tune setup
5. Go to work. Drive laps while constantly testing these things. Allow yourself to check limits by making many mistakes, and then correct those mistakes as much as you can each lap over and over
6. Quit trying so hard to beat someone else's time and spend more time trying to beat your own times. It will make the training more personal and cause you to focus more on your own driving rather than someone else's.
I think this series is fantastic. It's embarassing to watch for me because I'm "that guy" more often than not. I'm at this very dangerous moment in simracing, when you gained some experience and think you have it figured out, but honestly you don't. And I think your videos address this very well and in a manor that sinks in easily. Thank you!
I watched half the video, and I gave up. Here's why.
I don't have years of experience in sim-racing, just a few months. Enough to learn how to drive without assistances, so I know very well how to actually drive. I noticed that sometimes I'd have dificulties learning a specific track, for example, and that's what brought me here.
I want to adress the "you can't crash in the race, so why do you practice like it's ok to crash?". He didn't say it *exactly* like that, but he did say that. Well.. When you practice, don't you expect to crash? So you can learn the car's limits, and your own limits? For example: You go to a race in a track you probably never raced before. You fail miserably, so you decide to practice. So you go to the empty track, and start racing alone. You're gonna crash some times, and spin some other times, but you will start learning the track and its limits. Isn't that what practicing is about?
Yes, I said I watched half the video, and this is all I got to write. Why? He took nearly 5 minutes to just repeat himself, each and every time using different words. And what the heck is up with the "been there, done that"? Everyone learns in a different way, everyone drives in a different way, every track is different! Maybe the tracks you struggled to race on are a walk in the park for someone else! Why does it matter what you did, and didn't do to learn? It is *perfectly* ok to give advise and tips, but saying that doing something is completly wrong, is just.. Wrong. SPECIALLY in a video game.
This is my half review on the half video I watched. I won't be comming back to this channel, the ammount of frustration I had on just this 5 minutes is way bigger the frustration I have while practicing.
I hope you all have a great morning/evening/night, I hope whatever god you belive on blesses you and your family, and I hope you all have fun racing.
Very good advice! Thanks for this informative video,.. Ill keep those tips in mind if im flying off when im to hyped to get the job done!! ;)
Thank you, great advice! I wish more people recognized how dangerous crashes can be, we should not drive recklessly even in a sim! If you practice to crash, you will probably succeed in it
I’ve spent so much time mindlessly preparing for a race, tweaking setups, perfecting race lines, that by the time I do the race, it’s not even fun anymore and can’t wait for the race to end. Thanks for the insight!
The new style looks great, very professional.
Thank you matt, hope you actually do more of these videos
Great video. It's so easy to fall back to your bad habits when you think you know a track, because you get lazy and stop thinking about your marks. At least I do. Hope you do more of these, maybe some back to basics stuff like conventional racing wisdom or finding and maintaining your line?
Very good points. I try and do long testing session IRL because like you said. It's great if you can go fast for 2 laps but you have to be there in the end. Although I don't use markers for letting off and etc. I find it complicated and easier to feel what the car needs. Not to mention dirt tracks are completely different 2 feet up from the lign you took the lap before.
Great video!
When we just got a sim at home in my Junior year in high school, I spent a lot of time hot lapping and racing against the AI in F1 2017, but in my Senior year I actually started practicing properly, I know I watched this video around this time, but I started driving project cars, assetto corsa, trying new set ups and making plans for practice, and this translated to consistency and lower lap times, but this also translated to karting with friends and family (we're competitive af) where after the first or second heat I'd be comfortable to race and be fast.
Really really true and insightful video although before this video I had already began improving and irradicating some of the points made in the video, there were other things you mentioned that I am totally guilty of and will definitely work on now
Great video! Thanks! I posted my best time on my least favorite circuit using your tips. Good stuff!
this is good, this is really good. i could say, i look into a Mirror but that includes i confes a Tiny error in my sim Racer carrier! well done!
I'm a newbie, and I understand this video is 2 years old, but maybe you'll still this this. I'm doing EXACTLY everything you said not to! Haha! So, this video was awesome to see. Thanks for that! At first, this was just for fun, because my wife bought me a PS4 and I'm a car guy in real life. Now, I find myself wanting to get competitive and actually be able to race online with other human people, but dare not because of my ability. I will put all you have said here to use as of now! Thx again!, Kevo