Week 302 - Operation Downfall: 2 Million Men to Invade Japan - WW2 - June 8, 1945
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- The plans to invade the Japanese Home Islands in the fall grow ever more concrete, with the main issue being not just how to transport men by the millions around the world, but where to put them once they get there. On land the fight continues in Okinawa and the Philippines, and at sea the American fleet is savaged by a typhoon for the second time in six months.
Chapters
00:34 Recap
01:22 The Allied Control Commission
02:29 Okinawa
03:50 The War in the Philippines
06:22 Halsey and another typhoon
09:13 Operation Downfall
19:07 Summary
19:24 Conclusion
20:28 Dedication to Donald Wilson Round
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Hosted by: Indy Neidell
Director: Astrid Deinhard
Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
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Written by: Indy Neidell
Research by: Indy Neidell & James Newman
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Map research by: Sietse Kenter
Editing and color grading by: Simon J. James
Artwork by: Mikołaj Uchman
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A TimeGhost chronological documentary produced by OnLion Entertainment GmbH.
This episode is dedicated by TimeGhost Brigadier Member Drew Hardin to his grandfather and all those who flew a B-26 Marauder. Thank you, Drew, for sharing your story with us and for being a committed member of the TimeGhost Army. We are happy we could do this.
If you'd like to dedicate a video to someone, you can do so by joining us on Patreon at the Brigadier level for one year or by making a one-time contribution
Thank you for making this, the pacific war is fascinating to me, especially the end of it
It is funny that Americans were growing tired even though it was Japan that had attacked the USA.
Well Kublai Khan doesn't have to feel so silly since someone else got hit with two typhoons.
Yes, just let’s not refer to them as kamikazes. 😅 (Meaning “divine wind,” and the original usage of the term.)
I guess Khan would have benefited from the use of nuclear weapons
@@mgway4661in all seriousness they would have used it instantly against the first target that didn’t surrender lol
"and then 🌪died in a tornado (actually a typhoon)"🌪
The U.S. Navy had had it with Lieutenant Admiral Bull Halsey. They were ready to can him. However the Navy top brass discussed the issue behind closed doors for some time, understanding that Halsey was a well-publisized American hero. The Navy top brass had to satisfy themselves with reprimanding him. They did go after his second-in-command and curtailed his Navy career. The man would find himself retiring soon after the war was over.
"You know the end is near when Indys desk is clear".
Who knows what the future holds?
The more I hear of Halsey the less impressed I am. He was on the bench at Midway, right?
@TheLucanicLord
His early performance in the war, especially around the Solomon Islands campaign, was well done. But late in the war, he left a lot to be desired. And yeah, during midway he was sick so was on a medical leave while the battle happened. Hence, he recommended his cruiser commander, Ray Spruance to take over his carrier taskforce for the battle. But that left Fletcher in overall command of the carriers still (At least until Yorktown was damaged).
My Uncle was a US Paratrooper. He and his unit were too young to be sent to the European war, but were training to be deployed in the early stages of Operation Olympic, and (spoiler alert) were sent to Japan (to the areas they were scheduled to jump into) soon after the Japanese surrender. He was very glad they didn't have to fight their way in.
Same happened with my great uncle made it as far as Pearl before the bomb dropped
Hell, I'm glad they didn't have to fight.
Maybe your uncle was a para in the 13th Airborne Division? It was shipped to France in early 1945 but saw no combat and was then returned to the states, for training as one of the primary assault units for the invasion of Japan. It always amazes me that the Americans had such an abundance of resources, they could train and equip an elite airborne division and not need to deploy it. Some of the troops might have felt sore, that they never did any fighting but there were plenty of others on the frontlines, who would have gladly swapped places with them.
@@MartinMcAvoy I don't recall him ever talking about going to France. I'll ask family members who would know when I get the chance.
He was always very supportive of the upcoming A bombing of Japan - he felt it might have saved his life.
@@MartinMcAvoy He was probably from the 11th Airborne division, which fought in the Philippines at Leyte and Luzon, and was scheduled to drop in Japan and became the lead occupation division, arriving in Japan at the end of August. The 13th was scheduled to redeploy from Europe to the Pacific. It was supposed to be go into action as part of the airborne drop, Operation Varsity, the crossing of the Rhine of Monty's armies, but there weren't enough aircraft to transport and 6th British Airborne, the 17th and the 13th. So it was deployed in theater, but it arrived relatively late, missed its one chance to jump and after that all potential airborne operations got cancelled as the ground advance advanced quicker then the planners could plan. It wasn't unique in that regard, the 16th Armored division arrived in Europe in february 1945 and only saw action as part of Patton's 3rd Army when it advanced into Czechoslovakia in april. Suffering only 12 wounded in the 3 days of the war that it actually was in combat. Some units just had the bad (or good) luck to arrive in theater very late.
A 102-year-old WWII Vet died on his trip to visit Normandy this week. It took 81 years but he joined the others there.
80, right?
RIP that man.
May his memory be a blessing.
-TimeGhost Ambassador
@@DazzleCamo bro he think 2 days after june 6 is a year
The vet I believe fought in Iwo Jima and Okinawa as a sailor I believe but still wanted to visit Normandy before he died
If I had a nickel for every time I led a fleet into a typhon, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happend twice.
😅😅😅
Boooring
That's a lot in 1945 😂
Happened to the Mongols also. Twice.
I hope you avoided any platypuses. I hear they’re trouble in a fedora.
An old fella I knew was wounded in Normandy. A year later he was patched-up and sent to the Middle-East, from there to be shipped out to join the invasion of Japan. None of the lads he was with believed they would ever see the UK again. 40 years later, he was retired and doing a degree in international studies at Warwick University. One day his class was discussing the horror of the atomic bombings and how cruel it was. George stood up and said that when his unit heard that the Japanese had surrendered, they all burst out cheering and it was the happiest day of his life. They knew they would live.
The kids in George's class were the same age as he was in August, 1945. They could not understand the celebration of destruction but at least they heard a lived experience, of somebody who was affected by the outcome of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Soldiers at the time didn't understand the surrender was imminent anyway and it was done for the USSR's benefit. Now, we do understand that. I know it's the height of woke racism to put lived experience before all, but knowledge of the entire historical situation beats the experience of a normal soldier.
@@arostwocents Japanese was NOT imminent anyway, the Japanese intended to fight on. Hoping for a negotiated settlement.
The bombings of Dresden and Tokyo were equally brutal but they were not single bombs making it seem less brutal. At any rate, forget the 'woke racist ' snipes. War is hell. Remember what Spartacus says, 'never again.'
@@Larrymh07 Won't that have meant that Japanese government wouldn't have cared about the atomic bombing either? After all, if the far deadlier firebombings didn't convince them to surrender, then why would the atomic bombings change that?
The fact that the Soviet invasion happened on the same day that the second atomic bomb was dropped means that historians struggle to ascribe the surrender to one or other cause.
The best evidence that the bombings were the chief reason is that it was specifically mentioned in Japan's surrender speech. The best evidence that the Soviet invasion was the main cause is that Japan was trying to use the USSR (with which they had a non-aggresion treaty) as a mediator for peace talks. But it could also have been a combination - and even if it was the bombs, perhaps the same result would have been achieved without targeting civilians immediately with them.
The RUclips channel Shaun has a detailed video on this.
My mother's uncle was a member of the Dutch resistance and died in Dachau on December 31st, 1944. We visited Dachau and the book with all the names of the deceased, which has like 2000 pages, was open to the exact page his name was on. I know I can only suggest videos if i'm a patron, but it would be cool if you could make a video on the Dutch resistance in WW2
Indeed there's a good article to be made on Dutch resistance (e.g. the Engelandvaarders). Unfortunately the story can become somewhat tainted by scores of young people joining the resistance in the last 3/2 weeks of the war, and posing as if they took part way longer/since the beginning.
I've been looking into Dutch literature on the topic but couldn't find as much factual documentary style books, as I could find romantisized story books.
Dutch resistance is the "most lolcow" of all resistances, unfortunately. The Dutch resistance tried strikes multiple times that ended poorly and had little love amongst the people for causing more trouble than damage they caused to the Nazis. (Seriously what did they expect to happen they used cardboard cutouts with protest slogans against nazis) The resistance was little more than sharing memes (Trouw). The only part that went relatively well was helping people, like jews, hide. This all caused resistance members to be seen during and after the war as politically motivated troublemakers who did more harm than good and were called "weirdos". They screwed up so many times the allies didn't trust them, which went badly during Market Garden. Resistance members wouldn't get recognized until decades later, except for those that hid Jews, allied airmen who were shot down and others.
Fortunately we learned from this, because nowadays we don't call political dissidents "weirdos" amirightguyz
@@evocorporation6537 The French Underground was also slighted as not doing much or being effective until just before the armored columns arrived. The Germans were well tolerated until they started stealing their food and then rounding up any male big enough to work as slave labor in Germany.
One of the things I appreciate the most about this series is the way it puts the timing of various events in relation to each other. The way I've always conceptualized the Pacific campaign after reading books is MacArthur re-took the Philippines, and then sometime later the US invaded Okinawa. With the week-by-week coverage, it's much more obvious that the re-taking of the Philippines happened concurrently with the Okinawan campaign (even though the former started earlier). That is, it gives you a better perspective of what all was happening exactly when it was happening. Thank you for all your work, TGA!
Thanks for the comment! That's a huge benefit of the chronological coverage, it really does help put things into perspective in a unique way.
In context: the Purple Hearts that was produced to prepare for the invasion of Japan is still being used
That’s pretty chilling
Yeah, I got one in Vietnam, I think recently (in the last 10 years) they started making them again.
My father was in Vietnam. One soldier went through two tours without a scratch on him and, right before he went home, he slipped in the shower and broke a leg bone. Combat? No injuries. But a bar of soap in the shower made him slip and fall. The guys laughed at him and one of the men working in the shop made him a mock medal called "the purple ass" that they pinned to his shirt before he went home.
IIRC they finally ran out a couple years back and started making them again. Nearly 80 years later....
@@jackmoorehead2036 yeah the warehouse was looking a bit empty and some of the surviving ones had rot/corrosion issues.
it may also be them planning in the event of future large-scale conflicts
My dad flew 52 missions in Europe driving a B 24, then in July of 44 came back to the States. He then Qualified on B 29s and in June of 45 took one and his Crew to Tinian. By July they were ready for Opetations and he made 6 over Japan. He came home and never again flew an Airplane, in fact he never got on one till the late 1970s. He carried the war deep inside him and would never say much about it till his death. I have often wondered what he would have been like if he hadn't had to go to war. Remember our "Boomer" generation was raised by a Whole Generation suffering from untreated PTSD.
A very sobering comment, thank you.
Can't you see current generations suffering of PTSD? Wars, the pandemia, crisis, and many other problems wreck people's nerves.
The problem is Devil runs the world. He is lier and murderer. This is the reason why liers and murderers feel good while righteous persons are persecuted. This is the reason why Hitler got the power, but Christ was executed as "blasphemer" and "rioter" by denunciation of clergy.
That's why we've got the Gospel about the God's kingdom. Jehovah would put everything in order. The dead will be resurected and we'll meet our beloved ones again! :-)
Did he know anyone that actually flew any planes and how dangerous was it for him driving the ones that he did😂
Can we get weekly updates on the Japanese soldiers who held out in the Philippines until the 1970s?
Today in 1965 Ichiro wiped his butt on a leaf
No you can't. Go find some other war channel that will waste it's time on micro events.
I happen to know the last Japanese soldier was captured in 1974 because it coincides with the year of my birth.
Probably not even possible lol, the dude who held out won’t even talk about it
@@JB-yb4wn i mean if it’s the only thing happening, it’s not really a micro event
Arguably USN biggest enemy remaining is typhoons now.
Dont forget their own Governement
It is axiomatic that the Navy's biggest enemy is always the Treasury Department. The Exchequer for the Royal Navy.
Still true to this day
nah kamikazes were a huge threat you have to remember japan no longer sends them out in preperation for operation downfall
@@yassinhafez1337 if they’re not actively attacking they’re not really a threat are they?
I'm a Halsey critic, and I slurp up all in-depth criticism, but I've never grasped how he is so responsible for the 2nd typhoon
Three things I really appreciate about Halsey are 1) his ability to plan and act jointly (all branches, all services, working together), impelling his subordinates to think and act along the same lines, 2) his morale-boosting talents, which really shone in time of crisis, and 3) his determination to get along and work well with important, but difficult, personalities. McArthur got much better at coordinating with the Navy when Halsey shirt-fronted him, then got the job at sea done - and so earned his respect.
There are times people just want someone to blame. We saw it with Fletcher too.
Halsey's blunders really make you appreciate the kind of commander Ray Spruance was. He was without a doubt the best choice to lead the Navy in the final fight against Japan.
I used to make fun of commanders, CEOs, managers, etc. for their mistakes.
What is not clear from the vantage point from the bottom is the number of errors they did not commit and the absolute opacity of the situation and the future.
You also know that you are going to lose human lives on the top of it.
To err is human is something we all have to deal with.
Dividing Germany;
The British got all the ruins.
The Americans and the French got all the scenery.
The Sowiets and Poles got all the agriculture.
And the Soviets steal all the factories that are still left...
America and UK got an insane amount of realpolitik tbh
The Poles did get Silesia, which was by 1945 probably the biggest most important German industrial area, because of how hard the Ruhr area had been bombed and German industry dispersed to the East.
… and Germany got a split personality.
no, the us got the wine producing area
Is Time Ghost going to release videos on the events between WW2 and Korea? The rebuilding of Europe and Asia is really fascinating.
I recommend the book By Tony Judt Postwar which covers this and more.
That will be part of what this channel will do over the next 5-10 years
With all the colonial wars and civil wars brewing up right after WW2 they could do 5 years of weekly docus and never be out of combat content even before the Korean War started. There's the Greek civil war, Palestine, the Indonesian war of independence, Vietnam Round 1 with the French, Malaya, India and Pakistan having their first go at each other, the Berlin Blockade, and that's just what springs to mind.
@@ChaptermasterPedroKantor-kv5yw I don't think its possible to fully comprehend how drastically WW2 changed the world forever.
I'd love to see a 3 or 4 part special on the Nuremberg Trials.
I just learned something new when the war is over. How the economics transitions over to peace time. Job loses is not something I have read or heard of at the end of the WW2.
I've heard that all of the Purple Heart medals we have today were produced prior to the end of WW2 in anticipation of the invasion of Japan. Apparently the number produced was so large that the medals we award today are still from those produced then.
It is my understanding that production has recently been restarted, but yes, it took almost 80 years to exhaust the supplies.
-TimeGhost Ambassador
That is a crazy fact, Jack. Surreal is the best word I can think of.
"Your conclusions were all wrong, Ryan. Halsey acted stupidly." - Marko Ramius
I think that conversation was about the battle of Leyte Gulf. Which was a massive Halsey cock up that the USN should be severely grateful for 7th Fleet holding the line in his absence and the Japanese chickening out.
Too bad about Putin slipping on his tea...
Two different parts of my brain suddenly came together in a flash and I now recognize the importance of that statement in the movie. Thank you. Wow!!!!!
I learn a lot, each time I view one of your episodes. Even if during my 69 years, I did read books and view many films or TV/internet shows about that war, thank you.
Thank you for watching.
I've never considered the economic impact of the nukes, more was saved than lives.
People to this day act like dropping those nukes was pure evil. As if the horror of this invasion being implemented was so much better.
Truman is really the most overlooked American president. He had a really tough job following up the most popular American president, probably of all time. I think people also forget about the fact that he was supposed to lose the election to Dewey. He's kind of hammered in between two really big presidents with FDR and Eisenhower. I kind of like the guy.😊
Truly staggering what America did for us all in this war. The amount of men and material is truly enormous.
When I think about the factory efforts in the US to produce such a massive amount of machinery from battleship gun barrels to the tiny delicate parts in aircraft instruments, its truly incomprehensible. Every single part, big or small, had to be drawn up, spec'd, contracted and shipped to the right place it was needed. Can't truly wrap my head around how fast this all came together.
@@LuvBorderCollies During WW2 Lionel, of train fame, converted to making things for the war effort, including but not limited to, Compasses, Binnacles, Lifeboat Lanterns, Speed Keys, Telegraph Keys.
@@LuvBorderCollies And to boot, drafters and engineers did all the work on PAPER and PEN; absolutely amazing!
@@LuvBorderCollies that is why I love this series. In the UK I don’t think we heard enough about the contribution of America. Churchill understood American dynamism at the time though.
They really named the operation after the famous Steiners attack meme movie
I’m saying this knowing I’m watching prerecorded stuff on a screen, but each host I honestly feel like I would enjoy talking history with, just shooting the breeze. Unfortunately I have Asperger’s and severe social anxiety, so I couldn’t really make a decent conversation. But I thought I’d pay the compliment anyways. And also as someone that’s been watching since the WW1 days, thank you for making this series.
The Atomic Bomb test. The first was a Uranium gun-typed. It was sure to work so no test planed. The second was a Plutonium implosion type. This was less sure so needed a test.
That was an awesome dedication at the end. So many wonderful stories from so many people all over the world from WW2, combatants and civilians. The sad part is knowing that there are so many that we’ll never know due to no witnesses surviving, or at least no written or oral testimonials to the actions of our predecessors.
Glad he got his shout out :)
If anything, this to me confirms that Japans' idea that the US may be forced to into a negotiated pace, was not completely delusional. It was on the calculations on how much damage they needed to inflict and how costly the war needed to be where they failed
It was the only strategy left for the Japanese. Their navy and air force destroyed only the Allies concern about their casualties was the the weak spot they could hope to capitalize on.
Yes, this is why the talk about japan trying to surrender from historical revisionists is nonsense. They knew some news out of America and were preparing to "win" the war in another decisive battle.
Japan tried the strategy that Vietnam chose, rolled the dice, and got ko'd by the dungeon master.
Everyone likes to talk about the sorry state of the IJN, but how many points in the European war was it said "its pretty much over". "After stalingrad the war was forgone" "After d-day it was the beginning of the end" "After Berlin it'll be over". And The War dragged on after all of those times. And that was WITH mass surrenders (No luck that happening with the Japanese) Comparing the two timelines, Japan is still two d-days away AND even when they land, japan is mostly mountainous. So instead of the wide open French plains ideal for America to use its tank advantage - its back to the laborious, deadly, and slow Italian-style campaign, considered to be the very worst front in the entire war for America. You can very easily see why the IJN top brass can convince themselves that the war is salvageable, and since a bunch of them will probably be hung as war criminals, who cares how many of their countryman will die? WWII if anything proves just how much leaders care about that
They expected so many casualties that we're still awarding Purple Hearts struck in 1945.
Ran out in 2015. Took 80 years to get rid of that stockpile.
Something tells me that this “Operation Downfall” might not occur…
Dude! Spoilers!
Dont spoil the story!
There's millions of men projected to hope so.
Then what? Japan is definitely not surrending like Germany did
Not little boys or fat men can make Japan surrender, at last
Then what? A miracle weapon appears and forces Japanese surrender? Come on!
If I'm not mistaken, the destroyer Kamikaze is one of the 4 destroyers used in the final confrontation against Godzilla in Godzilla Minus One
They don't make destroyers like they used to
There’s a great book about Downfall I highly recommend called Decisive Darkness, a two part book which reads like a history book as if the invasion actually happened because the Kyūjō incident succeeds. Great read but a brutal one I have to say
Thanks for the recommendation.
Thank you who is the author?
My dad served as a crew chief on Brewster Buffalos and P51A Mustangs in Florida during the war. How about doing an episode on those who served in the states during the war.
TimeGhost Brigadier Member Drew Hardin's story was heartwarming and delivered well.
Never forget.
We are thankful to Drew for sharing it with us, thanks for the comment.
Operation Downfall surely will be a climactic and apocalyptic fight. Surely there will be a huge special for it, akin to the D-Day 24 Hours in Normandy. Though I doubt that could squeeze into 24 hours.
If it happens it is going to last more than 24 hours
Dear Indy & Co, I predict that your week-by-week coverage of WW2 will end soon :) That being so, it's a good time to say an enormous THANK YOU to you all -- the excellent presenters and their research & support team, for the excellent job you've done !!! I've been watching your videos week-by-week ever since The Great War, and as I spent many years of my life teaching students about the early 20th C, I can well appreciate how much work you have all put into making these series a success. A really wonderful legacy !!
Thank you so much for your kind words!
-TimeGhost Ambassador
@@WorldWarTwo As one of your future projects, how about a month-by-month account of the recent past -- e.g. 1989-2024?
The main part of these episodes are always great, but the memorials are best best part.
Dad was in basic training in 45 and they knew that Japan was where they were going. They heard that Japan surrendered while they assembled in the messhall at lunch.They were a happy bunch of guys! Funny thing, Dad and 2 other guys didn't go to occupy Japan. They were pulled to be drivers in Europe and never had their group to associate with there.
Dad passed in Dec 2023 at the age of 97.
We had a relative in our family who was a radar operator on the USS Bremerton their commanding officer told them to get ready to die during land invasion of Japan, they left Guam and days later Japan surrendered. He loved Asia so much he lived and worked in Indonesia for 30 years later, married local girl and had a family. He passed couple years ago at age 94.
Was in a typhoon on the USS Boxer. It sucks lol
American fleet: gets wrecked by typhoon while invading Japan
Mongols: "First time?"
American military in Europe had a 85 point system. Did those fighting Japan also have that? What if they had to stay even if they had the points?
I'm not sure because the point system was due to the occupation and demobilization of forces in Europe, because the war was over there. The war was still very much raging on in the Pacific.
I'm not sure if the army did the same, but I think in the USMC, they got to rotate back to the states after 3 combat deployments, but I could be wrong
I think a series similar to 'Between two wars' for the period from the end of WW2 to the start of the korean war would be interesting. Alot happened in the world, concolidation of communism in eastern Europe, evacuation of japanese troops and the rise of militant independence movments in Vietnam and Indonesia, the Chinese Civil war, and the start of the cold war just to name a few things. I think its a criminally under studied period and would love in depth coverage
I can recommend the book by Tony Judt Postwar which covers this period well.
2 million men to invade Japan? I think the most important question that needs to be asked is this; how many Ice cream barges will be needed for all of them?
My father was fighting on Luzon with the 158th Regimental Combat Team, the "Bushmasters." He was a first sergeant in Company F.
Has anyone read Dr Jack Ryan's book "Fighting Sailor", a biography of World War II Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, in which he justifies Halsey's actions during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. I can't find it anywhere.
When did he write that one? Before or after the Red October incident?
@@c1ph3rpunk Before, when he was lecturing at the Navy Academy in Annapolis.
All the copies are chasing after a diversion! They will get where they are needed, eventually!
I love how this format puts things in context - how the US was suffering from fatigue of a war weary nation, peoples desire for consumer goods, unemployment etc. and the imperative of convincing the japanese that they were in the fight til the end.
6:52 *eurobeat intensifies*
6:58 *thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk* we have sunk an enemy cruiser!
Only the United States could feed all of occupied Europe, transfer 7 million me, and ramp up/down military production. It’s insane feat of logistics and industrial power.
The propaganda movie, "Know Your Enemy: Japan" was completed after the Battle of Okinawa was completed and was meant to prepare US troops for invasion of the Home Islands.
It does a good job of showing the view of Japan/Japanese soldiers from the US point of view at the very end of the war.
Indy mentions that the Battle of Okinawa "inspired" Imperial Japan, it could be said the battle helped "inspire" the decision to not invade the mainland.
There wasn't a decision not to invade. They were still preparing the invasion right up until the A bombs. Downfall was mere downgraded from Plan A to Plan B.
God I love the background song at 12:00 min it takes me back to the great war days with Indy and team!!
My Father was a tail gunner
On a B-25
He severed in the Pacific Theater
My Uncle. My Father's older brother
Was a truck driver in the same area of operations
It truly is The Greatest Generation
The fought and survived
The bloodiest war in history
My Father flew in the 90th Bomb Group
The Jolly Rodgers
He was proud to have been
A part of that group
11:27
My dad was a dairy farmer, and was ALWAYS exempt from conscription. Which came in handy, as he had 6 children at the time. ( I was #7)
my Dad was in Germany in May 1945 and he and all his comrades were internally getting ready to "go to Japan". He passed in 2014, burial in Boston area. (84th Infantry Div)
One of history's great "What ifs." If you think we live in the "worst timeline"-- it could have been so much worse. Estimated casualties: at least 750,000. A lot of you (and your children and grandchildren) would not have been born if the Allies had to invade Japan. And Japan would have never have become a great economic power. It would have been demographically devastated and would probably have a population closer to 80 million vs its current 123 million.
Like how Russia's demographics have never truly recovered from WWII.
12:05 great war soundtrack :D
1:09
soviets waited until the very last day to invade Manchuria and russians today have the audacity to claim Japan surrendered because of them. ussr had no boats to make amphibious landings, lol.
Russian government lying about its actions and intentions....some things never change.
They didn't? In fact, they had said to the Americans that they would launch their invasion in the middle of August, and the proceeded to launch it a whole week earlier than expected. Keep in mind that transporting hundreds of thousands of troops and all their supplies/weapons over 4,000 miles from Eastern Europe was not going to be remotely easy.
Stalin was asked to attack Japan and he told the allies he would attack Japan 3 months after the Germans surrendered, he managed to move millions of troops and war materials and attacked one week earlier than promised , in doing so he took out a million Japanese soldiers that the Japanese government were planning to get back to Japan to fight off the intended invasion , The USSR won the Second World War will the help of the allies
@@MicheleDiBiase-wd4sh
who taught you that? RT?
Japan didn't have ships to move anyone to the home islands during the summer of 1945.
@@MicheleDiBiase-wd4sh That said, most of the actual fighting in the Pacific was done by the US, the Commonwealth and the Chinese. The USSR didn't have to worry about naval battles, jungle warfare or Kamikaze attacks from the Japanese
When it gets to the point that Truman authorizes the use of the bombs, remember he had to make that tough decision based on how fighting was going in other locations. And when he looked at the fighting and casualties in Okinawa and the Philippines, and then estimated losses of men invading Japan itself .. well what choice did he have. They kept fighting to the bitter end, refusing to give up, refusing to surrender, dying often to the last man even as they tried to kill. If anything it was these defenses of these locations that likely convinced him and others, the bombs were the least bloody solution to end the conflict. He knew this as per his June 1st address to the nation. They knew it would be a long and painful road to keep fighting (an invasion in 1946, perhaps fighting into 1947!). The painful way to end the fighting and actually save millions of lives on both sides overall was the bombs. He really had no choice in the matter.
It was literally his choice, let's not rewrite history.
@@danielsan901998 He literally stated, the literal history and probable thinking . . .
Yes, Truman chose to drop the nukes and why class? The American public and the economy really was buckling under the strain of the war.
Kyushu was the obvious place to invade first. The Japanese knew it and had crammed the island with troops to make in another "Okinawa" times 100. I wonder if anybody in our high command thought about faking the Japanese out by invading from the north, starting with Hokkaido, where the Japanese hadn't prepared to defend, and working their way down Honshu from there.
The obvious problem with that is the distance between any of the islands large enough to serve as a base and Hokkaido is massive. The logistics of it may not have been thought to be feasible, especially given any shipping would be directly within range of constant kamikaze attacks. Without the Soviets offering something like Vladivostok (and perhaps not even then given the number of troops they anticipated) as a staging area (which would have made the allied intent blatantly obvious) there's no way you'd get the numbers of men and materiel needed up to Hokkaido.
@@Saberlena In 1942 we invaded German-occupied North Africa directly from the United States. Would a direct invasion of Hokkaido from the U.S. West Coast, or Hawaii, or bases in the Philippines, been any more difficult than Operation Torch, especially given that it was defended lightly, if at all? I know it's 700 miles north of Kyushu, but that isn't a huge distance given the vastness of the Pacific. The Germans (and their Vichy France puppets) were caught flat-footed by our long-distance invasion of North Africa. We fooled the Germans again on D-Day, by invading Normandy beaches more distant from the British staging areas than the closest ones they expected us to land on near Calais, where they'd packed their heaviest defenses. Would the same deception not have worked with Hokkaido?
If you read some books, many different landing areas were consider. Main areas of interest were Hokkaido + Aomori, Sendai, Shikoku, and even Taiwan. Ultimately all were called off for various reasons. Sendai was too far from the Philippines, Shikoku had limited port capacity, and Hokkadio would've required an Aleutian style offensive through the Kurils which would take too much time. Ultimately only Kyushu was a viable option.
The biggest problem with invading Japan is its terrain making landings painfully obvious. Most of Japan's coastline is rugged and impossible to land large numbers of troops. The obvious and really only realistic places to land are in southern kushu and around Yokohama. The Japanese know this and can plan their defense lines with confidence on where the enemy will have to fight.
Japan managed to secure a conditional surrender, partly due to the problems mentioned in this video, but also due to changes in American and Soviet priorities in the prelude to the Cold War (amongst other reasons). The Americans recognized the need to end the war and shore up Japan as a "bulwark against communism" as soon as possible, even if that meant accepting the condition of keeping the Emperor (and then turning a blind eye to many war criminals), while the Japanese recognized that a Germany-style partition of their country that involved Stalin would be far worse than anything they had imagined.
This political reality sowed the seeds of the endless, reductionist debate about "what really ended the war." Japan urgently needed a big enough "justification" to surrender. Then the Cold War provided a great incentive for both the Americans and the Soviets to highlight their own contributions while minimizing those of the other side.
It might be too much to call the surrender "conditional". More Truman threw the Japanese a bone and they took it. Nothing bound Truman to keeping that other than common sense. Japanese had a "Nuremburg" style war crime trial, and America being less enthusiastic about punishing other war criminals due to the Cold War happened in Germany too - both east and west
I have long been surprised that there was never any plan to invade Korea and seal off Japan for a long siege. I'm not saying it's a good idea, I'm saying that someone, somewhere had to have come up with it. As a staging ground for invasion, it opens up many possibilities for multiple flanking landings, among other things. Were there any plans like this, and how far did they go?
Wow. This series is really bringing to light the economic and home front dynamics of the last part of the war that are never talked about but do seem very important.
We have estimated casualties for the fight for Japan and I would imagine those numbers could have been higher. From my best knowledge no outside invasion force has ever completely conquered the Japanese home islands. The Japanese, military or not, would have fought with such a resolve. Fighting that would have lasted for decades even after victory was officially declared. (Look at examples of Japanese soldiers in the Philippines and other areas as examples of this.)
Daddy was at Okinawa. He was 18. First time out of his home county state and country. He was a seabee. Worked on 2 air strips on Okinawa. He passed away in 2018 at 91 and a half. I'm a proud navy seabee daughter. ❤❤annette
Sailing into a typhoon? Twice?! Well, he was nicknamed Bull...
My late father, (I am old)) was over in the Philippines at the time constructing airfields. i imagine he would probably have been involved in an invasion of Japan. Glad it didn't happen.
My father was in the RCAF. I only found out late in his life that after VE, he volunteered for the Far East - but that was over before he could be sent. I'm glad of that ... !
Halsey was a blunt instrument. Spruance was the sharp knife. The promotion to five-star went to the wrong man.
I love these anecdotes and stories people share at the end of these videos.
Outstanding context... much obliged.
Thank you for watching.
It would be interesting to understand what was going on inside Japan at this time. Troop movements, civilian issues. I'm wondering where the army divisions within Japan came from? Were they shipped in from China or were they always in Japan?
The Sixteenth Area Army was expected to defend Kyushu with over 900,000 soldiers. But most of the units were newly formed and made up of inexperienced and poorly trained conscripts, militia and reservists. In the Home Islands the Japanese had enough men to form 65 divisions, but only had enough equipment for 40 divisions and only enough ammunition for 30 divisions. The Japanese had also created the "Volunteer Fighting Corps", which was a last ditch civilian militia(males between the ages of 15 and 60, unmarried females between the ages of 17 and 40) that was armed mostly with primitive weapons.
I knew over 60 years ago that Admiral Halsey had gotten into some trouble over a typhoon. What I did not know until this episode was that this was not Admiral Halsey's first brush with a typhoon.
At this time in 1945, my grandfather was in officer training school preparing to be part of the invasion.
Please consider reviewing "48 Million Tons to Eisenhower" and "Up Front" in a future episode.
Something I don't think the modern "Nukes Were Wrong" crowd don't understand is the psychological aspects of combat if Olympic/Coronet had went off instead. Imagine how tired, afraid, and pissed off the average American GI or Marine would be at the Japanese for not giving up and letting him go home. Imagine how determined he would be to NOT die in a last battle against a suicidal and (to his eyes) inhuman enemy. He would shoot anything, burn out anything, grenade and level with arty anything that even remotely looked like a threat. They would kill anything to go home alive.
Now imagine it from the other side, with the Japanese training school children to attack with satchel charges and bamboo spears and the already fanatical IJA fighting for its own soil. For that matter, the whole population was fanatically devoted to the Emperor and Japan in a way modern Westerners would have a hard time grasping.
It would be a bloodbath, and I don't think there would have been much of Japan left standing by the end. I am not even certain at what point the Japanese WOULD surrender, once ground combat began in earnest.
On the other hand, what about the atomic bombs convinced Japan to surrender when the even more devastating firebombs didn't?
@@extrahistory8956 There was a point made in one of these videos (I think?) that the gradual and conventional nature of the firebombing allowed the Japanese to accustom themselves to it, to give the idea they could do something to counteract it, no matter what kind of damage they were taking.
But a nuke is sudden, new. One plane=city gone. There is no real way to defend against that, even in fantasy. It shook them them, all except the really hardcore militarists, and gave a lever for the more moderate faction to propose surrender and not immediately be killed for it. It was "shock & awe" before the term was coined.
At this time the soviets was slowly getting ready to move east and invade Manchuria.
@InquisitorXarius Nope. Manchuria had been a Japanese possession for significant time at this point and stationed a large Japanese force and was a large industrial base for the Japanese. The soviet invasion was significant
@@InquisitorXariusConsidering the Soviets had planned an invasion of Hokkaido based on what they'd learned from their smaller landings on Sakhalin and Korea, I'd say no.
I imagine they will say what's up in Soviets
@@InquisitorXarius You're thinking about it with common sense and a concern for fellow humans. Remember the Soviets were communists led by Stalin. If Comrade Stalin wants Japan, then that's what will be done, regardless of possibility or how many are lost.
No, they didn't have the equipment, training, ships, or anything else to pull it off. But they had the troops, and judging by the rest of the war, I doubt Stalin would mind a couple million troops drowning or dying on the beach if it gave him the ability to brag "HE" invaded Japan.
@@InquisitorXarius That is not true. Please stop posting your uninformed opinion. The Japanese fought to maintain its territory everywhere up until it surrendered. This was partially because it didn't have the sealift to evacuate but also because it was a holding action for bargaining the hoped for armistice, that they had reached out to the Soviets to negotiate well before Hiroshima.
The only reason why the Soviets could not invade Japan is because their army and logistics were focused on Germany. It was just a matter of time and effort before it could be redirected East, which it did in time to swoop in and take advantage of the surrender and occupy Manchuria down thru to Northern Korea as well as occupy the Kuril Islands which are "Home Islands".
Nothing will happen to Adm Bill Halsey besides getting a fifth star for his shoulder boards. I thought for a long time that Ray Sprurance should have received a fifth star; it's a mystery why it did not happen. Bradley got one on his Retirement.
The beginning of the video reminded me of my great-great uncle. He flew a bomber and was shot down over Japan, couple of days later he witnessed Hiroshima and a couple of years later, he died.
1:11 Isn't Thailand technically part of the Axis Powers as well
This week in French news.
From the 4th to the 15th, a monetary epuration is done on banknotes above 50 francs and a count on treasury bills for a total of 440 billions of francs. It is in order to remove money stolen by Germany, to evaluate wealth of French citizen and to force them to dispose of their money in banks. 20 billions of Francs are destroyed or circulate irregularly.
The 7th, Truman poses an ultimatum to De Gaulle to withdraw his troops in Italy to retreat to the 1939 French border before the 9th. De Gaulle must yield, his troops withdrawing between the 25 of June and the 10th of July, replaced by American troops. In 1947, after the Treaty of Paris the same two communes will votes at 92% for the annexation (95,4% of participation).
Douglas MacArthur was probably the wrong person to be put in charge of planning a potential invasion of the Japanese home islands. Douglas MacArthur I feel was poisoned by a personal vendetta against the Japanese concerning his experiences at the start of the war with the evacuation from the Philippines.
Not only that, but I feel that he just wasn’t qualified. The reason Dwight Eisenhower was made overall supreme commander in the European campaign was not because he was a brilliant tactician. But because he was an extremely logistically, gifted individual.
Eisenhower could conduct logistical operations like a symphony orchestra. MacArthur however I feel personally lacked this capability.
Not only that, but MacArthur was known for being rather vain. He was a glory hound.
Douglas MacArthur seemed more concerned about securing his legacy in the history books then he did about the lives of the numerous human beings who were going to either be injured or killed in the operations that he was going to have undertaken.
My grandfather was one of those new recruits preparing to head across the Pacific to invade the Japanese home islands in Operation Downfall. Before he left he told his high school sweetheart that if she'd wait for him, he'd marry her if he returned. The new super weapon being developed by the US would end up changing his deployment to one of helping to ferry soldiers and supplies back from the western Pacific after the Japanese surrendered. He came home to marry that sweetheart and raise a family, including my dad. I often wonder if I would be around if not for the development of the nuclear bomb.
Curiously though. Why did the Japanese government kowtow to the atomic bombs when they weren't too concerned about the equally destructive firebombings?
27/6000 = 0.45% Wow. I spent most of my childhood on Okinawa (Uchinaa to the natives), and remember it as one of the most beautiful places on Earth. I hope to go back one day.
Thanks TG.
Thanks for watching.
There is a lot to like about Harry Truman but seeing that picture of Fred Vinson is a reminder of the cronyism he tended to engage in, a habit left over from his days a part of the Pendergast political machine.
No president is perfect. You can find serious flaws in each and every one of them. Abraham Lincoln probably comes closest to being flawless, but of course, he wasn't. No one is.
On the whole, I'd still say Truman deserves top 10 consideration on a list of the best U.S. presidents.
@@AbbeyRoadkill1 I agree. I'd go ya one further and put Harry in the top-five. He made a lot of right moves in his first term. Korea, accusations of incompetence and worse by the "Who lost China crowd," and scandals marred his second term. I'm not a fan of his authoritarian tendencies but for the most part he held things together at a time when the Soviet threat was a real thing and the world needed to be put back together again.
What's interesting is that, despite my education and day job are in the political/policy field, with a German studies major tacked on just for fun, I have to admit a pretty big blindspot, I have never thought about the retooling of industries, policies, and the wider economy for the US as WW2 drew to a close. It's hard enough to think about it 79 years later after it ended, but they [leaders in 1945] would not have known at this time in 1945 that the war would have been officially over on both fronts for almost an entire year a year from their [1945's] now.
A wonderful and deserved tribute to Donald Wilson Round. He's a model of how to live a man's life.
How was the B-26
Different from the B-25????
Thank you for the lesson.
As summer approaches, the Japanese remain undeterred from surrendering. Fighting on Okinawa, China, the Philippines, and at sea. Refusing to give up whatever the cost may be. All the while, the Allies know what enemy they are facing, a fanatical, tenacious, and determined foe who will rather die than surrender. Even so, the Allies began their visions of occupation of the former Axis countries. The end of the war may be near, but the gears of war are still churning out as ever high as before. Millions of men, tanks, aircraft, artillery, guns, ships, planes, will be redeployed, directed, and prepared for the inevitable final battle. Can this war continue? Will the Japanese keep fighting until their complete eradication? Or will the Allies deploy their long time secret weapon? I do not know. All I know is, many more will perished before this war concludes. Godspeed.
No satellites, no computer models, many fewer sensors. Meteorologists had a much tougher job back then.
Ignoring that the Australian commitment was 500000 personnel to invade Japan, with the addition of Britain, Canada and New Zealand under its command is an omission when describing the American invasion plans.
I would think that the invasion and capture of the Phillipines was the largest battle ever fought by the US. Everyone says it's the Bulge. I would like to see the comparison.
On another topic my Uncle was in the 11th Airborne. He was glad they didn't have to invade Japan.
It's difficult to prove since both "largest" and "battle" can be measured and defined in many different ways. Some would say that the liberation of the Philippines wasn't a battle, but rather a campaign, for example.
I have never understood why some axis units were in a gray verison, like the Japanese unit outside of bambang and alot of german units, i get the SS being separately identified but the logic behind the color coding has eluded me for years now.
My dad was in Italy in 1945. He had been in italy over a year and a half. They were all expecting to be sent to Japan. They would continue to round up POWS and provide local security services but they new as fall rolled around they would be headed out to the Pacific.
Some first hand reports claim the typhoon was worse than formally reported.
I have a somewhat weird question to ask, that you might want to consider "food for thought" in a Q&A episode:
It's been well established time and again the joke that is Steiners inevitable counter attack and coming to terms with reality once realizing how unrealistic such a counterattack would be. But was there such an equivalent leader internally for the Japanese forces to showcase how desperate the situation had truly gotten that the brain trust would hang their hat on? I ask to give the just due, if any to be given, to one if any of the officers less discussed in the theatre.
Purple Hearts were only produced again starting in 2003.
And it wasn't because they ran out(Only around 400-500 thousand were used). It was because the old ones were 60 years old and many of them had been ruined in storage from damage or water leakage and stuff. Some of those are still intact or cleanable and occasionally good ones are found and used, so they still do get used sometimes.
Bruh. Storage Issues was the reason they began a New Batch.
I hear the same closing music that's used by Mr. Schroeder on his Cold War channel is there a connection between the two of these?
I see Japan deploys old fashioned "divine wind" as well... perhaps supernatural protection will avail them
Mark Clark catching strays in this episode as well 😂😂😂
Looks like the sea gods really hated Halsey.