How Many Watts Do You Really Need for HiFI and Home Theater?
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- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2023
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How Many Watts Do You Really Need for HiFI and Home Theater?
Don't get got! Learn how to calculate how many watts you really need.
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Thank you sooo much for doing this video!! I thought I knew speaker sensitivity and wattages etc.. I now know I’m a newbie!! Saved for future reference!! 🎉
Glad it was helpful!
Some people like Toyota Camrys (lower wattage) others like Ferraris (High Wattage). Do you need a Ferrari while driving on public roads? No, but some like to know they have the grunt regardless. It boils down to what makes you happy and how deep your pockets are. The listener will be staring at their components for a long time. Cheers!
Thanks for watching!
I’m trying to understand all this. I have a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v5, and a Marantz sr7007 AVR. I’m being told to get a dedicated 2 channel integrated amp for better sounding music. I don’t necessarily want loud music. I want great sounding music. How can I determine how best to match an integrated amp for my Paradigm speakers?
Also, what the url to that room calculator you showed? I couldn’t find it in your notes. Thank you!
I dont remember that URL. I just googled for it.
You are so right. You need power to make power. This is true in car audio too. I have the potential stereo to get loud but I find that I am good with 70-85 db if I feel froggy 🐸 loud. I enjoy it more with clarity. When everything is so loud 🔊📢 it's hard for me to distinguish what sounds are coming from where. Good job.👍
Exactly!
The average sensitivity of a tower speaker is around 89 dB. Smaller speakers are usually down to 85 dB, due to the smaller cabinet. And you also have to take the current draw due to impedance of the speaker. In short .. there are many variables to this, and you run out of headroom very quickly if you are aiming for reference levels on multi channel receivers and amplifiers!
BTW.. with any Klipsch speaker, you need to subtract 6 dB from the "official" sensitivity rating,to make it comparable to other speakers.
Most people are happy with less than 20w. My main amp has 1400w amplifier.
Is that enough headroom if I am happy with around 1w? HEADROOM! lol
I don't need that. And throw in a D-Class powered sub, and I'm happy as shit with 1w going to my mains.
People put to much emphasis on watts, its just not that important. Whats more, its mostly a made up number that the manufacturer gave it.
You are right about the Klipsch!
@@newsboyaudio Agree 100%
I also agree with the general theme of the video, but using Klipsch was probably not the best/most honest choice.
The speakers in this video have been measured to be around 92dB/1w/1m (still fairly high sensitivity) but a far cry from 98dB So you're looking at 4 x the power to hit these numbers.
Unless you're looking at JTR, Klipsch Heritage,PSA, JBL Commercial etc - most speakers will NOT be anywhere near 98+dB sensitive. 86-90dB is far more common
@@jamiet74 Where did you get 98db? The dolby standard I think sets it at 89db.
@@newsboyaudio because the speakers used in this example were claimed to be 98dB/1w/1m,which 99% of speakers are not
My Monitor Audio gold centre, and front left/right are rated at 90db. The bronze surround and rear surrounds are 87db, These are powered by Emotiva BasX A3 and A4 amps. This allows my Denon X6700h to power my 6 Bowers and Wilkins M-1 heights to more than enough volume than I will ever use. Obviously the Denon alone would not be able to push all 13 speakers to reference levels. I have two SVS subs handling the low end stuff. PS I live in the UK with 240V circuit, each power socket can handle just over 3kw, (3000 Watts) so im not even getting anywhere near overload.
Nice!
Really good video. Question: Towards the end you implied an amp rated for say 300 W/channel would pull that. That’s not the case though is it? Just bc the amp can doesn’t mean it will always pull that much wattage, right?
Correct , what is pulls will scale with how much you twist the knob :)
I run powerful amplifiers, Crown Xli 3500's.True rated amplifiers. with dedicated breakers and outlets. The difference is my movie system is all PA. As for 80 db with movies I turn the system up so movie vocals are a little bit more than human conversations, Everything opens up from there. At times with movie transients are 100 DB+ at any given action part. with head room for awesome dynamics. With PA I know I can reach sound limits that the majority of home audio cant! and rest to sure that PA do it effortlessly. One thing to mention, that should have been in this video. ( Cabin gain,) This plays in to the watts and sensitivity factor big time. This can make or break speakers overall loud performance. on top of How many speakers is one running ? How close are you to the speakers ? Room size, all play a major role in how loud ones system sensitivity truly is. This apply's to any listening environment. 80 DB's could be more like 89 -90 DB in a small room, or sound small and weak if room is to big. a lot more to factor in than speaker sensitivity and watts.
Thanks for watching and the comment.
So, if the speaker companies are not being completely honest about the sensitivity ratings of their speakers, and amp companies are not being honest with the power ratings of their amps...where does that leave us as consumers?
I know I depend quite a bit on the consumer community to help me make choices on purchases. Particularly for gear I cant demo in person.
You have to find reviews with real measurements who averages efficiency. Unfortunately few products are measured. Most of time it's between 85 and 89 dB per watt. Amps are more reliable when they give rms power for 20-20kHz at 0,1% distortion for instance. But
100w @10% distortion is bad, you may have only 10W @0,1%. You have to get the 3 parameters together.
Though generally there are more bad speakers than bad amps. Neutral, good speakers are hard to find but Google is your friend
I’ve been into audio since 1970 & I find the only ones that are honest about their power ratings back them were Marantz & Mcintosh. In fact, Marantz used to under rate their power ratings for some reason
When doing the watt measurement. Doesn't that depend on the frequency?
No, frequency really never is discussed with wattage.
People are obsessed with watts RMS. This is a great guide and I think a lot of people will get a lot out of this.
I will add, however, that a lot of the big subwoofers available now have such wonderful low frequency extension because they utilise in-build DSP that is out of the user's control. It's baked into the amplifier by the manufacturer, essentially creating a house-curve, especially in sealed subs. The DSP EQ slopes up the super low frequencies below 30Hz, and the deeper it goes, the more the EQ pushes the volume up. And to achieve this considerably large boost down low, it requires TONS of headroom in the amplifier module. So when you're +10dB boosted in the low end, you're chewing 10 x the power as the other frequencies to achieve this 'awesome bass extension out of a commercially available sub'!
True, and while such DSP trickery requires more power I once measured a non-DSP'd passive sub hooked up to a class D amp. I could barely get my power meter to move from idle while the woofer was already getting good excursion and playing at levels beyond what I would ever use in a livingroom.
So even for subwoofers the "99% of listening is within 1 Watt per channel" saying might be true. Of course if you want to hit 100 dB at 10 Hz (and structurally damage your house) all bets are off but that's probably not the typical consumer.
Watts RMS is the best way to measure power but high sensitivity speakers will deliver uncomfortable listening volumes at under 5W. It's really all about headroom to reduce distortion.
I agree. You are working in a different world there for needed wattage.
Awesome!
Thanks!
In 2001 I bought a sansui Dolby surround home theater package of amp 150 w 50 hz, two left right with 8 ohm 15-watt full-range and 10watt 8 ohm tweeter which made the left right 25 watt each, center 8 ohm 15-watt one full-range only, two rear speakers 16 ohm 10 watt full-range and a subwoofer 6 ohm 30 watt. I live in Delhi India in quit noisy environment even thought the system was way too loud that the volume hardly went a above 40 percent while normal listening 70 percent some gather or birthday parties.
nice!
My sound system consists of 4 SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers (2 for the mains and 2 for the side channels), an SVS Ultra Center speaker, 6 SVS Prime Elevation speakers (4 ceiling mounted for Dolby Atmos and 2 mounted on the back wall for the rear channels) and 2 SVS SB-3000 Subwoofers. The system is powered by a Yamaha Aventage RX-A8A 11 channel AVR. Everything, including the dual subwoofers, are plugged into a M5400-PM Power Conditioner, running off a 15 amp circuit. No problems. 👍👍
That’s a great set up!!!!!
That's a lot of gear and Watts to handle... I think we need an Electrician to chime in here and elaborate on what is needed from an electrical outlet to supply a setup similar to yours. I think it's a very good example as a home theatre setup to comment on... any 'ELECTRICIANS' available to give their expert opinion on this subject please...?
@@JilesMcCoyI've updated my system! My sound system consists of 6 SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers (2 for the mains, 2 for the side channels, and 2 for the rears), an SVS Ultra Center speaker, 4 SVS Prime Elevation speakers ceiling mounted for Dolby Atmos and 2 SVS SB-3000 Subwoofers. The system is powered by a Parasound Halo A52+ 5 channel amplifier and a Yamaha Aventage RX-A8A 11 channel AVR with dual AC Infinity AIRCOM T9's keeping them cool, and all are connected to a Panamax M5400-PM Power Conditioner. The output power of this Living Room home theater system is 2,800 watts R.M.S.
good points; but even if your daily needs are met with a steady state of 1 watt average your system (amp-speakers) should be able to respond to a peak of 25 watts if the music program has a crest factor of 5 since everything is not a violin in a quartet ;-)
Yes, you want to make sure you size so that your max output is covered by the available wattage. 100%!
With 240 volts, you can REALLY blast the stereo here in the UK. In terms of power from the wall, an amp at max volume will draw ~
RMS rating x 10^(average music level in negative dBfs/10)/amplifier efficiency.
If you listen to compressed rock with -6dBFs average level on 1000 watt 70% efficient amplifier at maximum volume - power draw is going to be ~1000 x 10^(-6/10) / 70% ~1400 x 0.25 ~ 350 watts. If your speakers have reasonable efficiency - let alone a horn rig this is going to be face meltingly loud in a domestic setting. This is also assuming the speakers have a flat nominal impedance curve, which is seldom the case. I am assuming that peak power demands are smoothed over either by internal capacitors or just the wall supply's capacity.
Yes, agreed. A ton of power really isnt needed to melt faces in most situations.
I actually down sized my amplifiers. I was running an efficient horn system on 2 x Peavey IPR1600. I switched to 2 x SMSL SA98E. The treble is loud enough to hurt my ears. The bass is loud enough for the neighbour to ask me to turn it down despite not sharing walls. The SMSL have no fan noise, and they don't glow blue if I want to watch a film in the dark. Oh yeah they sip about 3 watts at idle even on the 36 volt power brick (you can use as little as 12 volts if you don't need the output and then it's about 0.7 watts). A peavey IPR1600 uses at a rate of 40 watts just to keep it powered on. With two of the amplifiers and speaker management, total was 95 watts just to be powered on and now it's 19 watts.
I'm curious to know how loud the system plays on the amplifiers from four speakers from cans of pringles. I suspect the mids and highs will be plenty loud and the bass will have a bit of thump but not be as impressive.
Thats cool!!!
Excellent video...So a typical 7-speaker surround sound system needs approximately 70 watts per channel or 490 watts?
Really depends on all the things I outlined in the video. But 70x7 is more than enough for the vast majority of people.
Thanks. @@JilesMcCoy
One question: do you ever party with your friends?
Well, if you do, those 128 Watts, that's supposed to deliver 119 dB SPL on those Klipsch spreakers, will not be enough.
Why? Because as the room is filled with people you will have to run that amplifier closer to its operational limit.
Furthermore, the amplifiers are designed to operate at their best (with low distorsions) within 50-75% of their power capabilities. Therefore, if you want to run your theoretical amplifier at its maximum 128 W, on a continuous basis, I don't want to know how your speakers will sound and what it may happen to yout tweeters.
One may choose to take your advice, but, personally, I will always advice you to ensure a minimum of 3 dB to 6 dB of headroom (reserve power) and even more than that if you can afford it and learn how to use it.
I agree that you need to know your target output to figure out the needed power.
I run a denon avr-a110 all 13 channels going and a beringer supposedly 12k amp with 18s and at very loud volume it was drawing about 7.5 amps which is less than I expected and even hit 130 db maxed the meter out. I also run all klipsch and dayton subs
Right on!
@JilesMcCoy I was watching a video last night from psa audio and he explained you can get more power from an amplifier in spurts than what is provided from the wall because of capacitors storing power
@@vincemccarty8787 This is true. But its only for transients and not RMS.
@JilesMcCoy what's the deal with them big sinbosen amps lol, also I don't know of you've checked out wiliston audio labs videos he does mostly car amps but has ran some pro amps like crown and beringer on a dyno. It's kind of interesting
@@vincemccarty8787 good amps, but the bigger ones you need 240v wall power. I’ve not seen the car audio stuff.
@Jiles I love this kind of video! It helps to take a moment to think about what I really need before buying excess power I may rarely use. If I mostly send 5-10 watts to my front speakers, then any quality AVR rated at 75 watts per channel should have enough headroom for watching movies in my living room.
In your experience, how can I apply this approach to subwoofers? How much subwoofer do I really need in a large living room? (23x19x8ft) e.g, Would a pair of 18" GSG Mini Marties be overkill? Would a pair of 15" GSG SQL-15 Cubes be just right? Would a pair of Starke SW15s be too little?
Figuring out wattage for speakers is a bit easier than figuring out the right subwoofer design for a system. In most media room scenarios 2 of the SW15 is more than enough. And translated to home theaters 4 of them are usually more than enough (and 4 of the units for 2k is a minor miracle). For those that are looking for exteme bass you can look at things like multiple ported 21s/24s/18s etc. The GSG kits are outstanding. As you know I've built lots of them and I have 2 15" cubes waiting to be painted in the garage. Just need the weather a bit warmer. For the money and simplicity nothing really beats the Starkes right now. But there are plenty of options that have more output if its needed. And if you enjoy building things nothing beats the GSG kits. We are spoiled for choice these days.
Bit confused when talking about distance from approx 7.52 in as your speaking in metric whilst the online calc is set to imperial
Thankfully is doesn’t matter for the example. The calculation really just modifies according to relative distance. So we went from 1 unit to 3 units of distance which is 10 DB down.
Okay ... simple stereo setup. 70w/ch amp, mid price towers ... connecting power meters to the speakers, I almost never get them over about 3 watts average and maybe 10 watts on peaks. In fact most living room listening happens at less than 5 watts. In dedicated listening rooms that might get up to 10 watts.
And FWIW... industrial safety charts list hearing loss starting at 80db with 4 hours of exposure and reducing to 5 minutes at 120db.
I listen at less than a single watt most of the time.
@@JilesMcCoy
84 db speakers ... what can I say?
Take what I say with a grain of salt.
Some lower wattage amplifiers with beefy power and output transformers sound just as good at 1 or 2 watts as big wattage amplifiers.
Example, i have an old marranz receiver with believe has only 25 watts per channel and sounded much cleaner than a 60 watt per channel Scott receiver.
I agree with all this. The larger wattage is just to hit higher vol levels. Most people listen at less than 1 watt.
Hello Jiles... I'm copying from below, I hope you don't mind...
Are you certain your premise is correct?
I have a sound level meter and between 1m from my speakers to my sitting position about 4m away there is only about 3 dba of difference. Even in the far corners of my room there is only 6 or 8 dba of difference.
A lot of these online calculators are based on the Inverse Square Law which calculates field density in free space with omnidirectional sources. But a room is not free space and speakers are not omnidirectional...
Yes, this is a good framework to estimate power needs and use. Obviously the in room measurements will be specific to each unique system. Think of this as the anechoic measurements version.
@@JilesMcCoy
(Grin) Okay.
But we should also think of it as the exaggerated power estimates version.
According to some of the online calculators (there are several) and your basic sensitivity calculations, I should have 250 watts for my 84db speakers ... in a 12 x 20 foot room???
I have a pair of calibrated power meters that I can connect directly to the speaker binding posts... and I've never seen them go over 7 or 8 watts when listening at 75 to 80 db levels... and fwiw 80db is pretty darned loud.
Thinking of it as the "anechoic" version is the same as estimating omnidirectional antenna output in free air.... but my room is not anechoic and speakers are not omnidirectional.
With respect, Jiles, I like your videos, but I think you're way off on this one...
If they are using inverse square law, the assumption is a point source.
@@ElCidPhysics90
Actually ... if they are calculating on inverse square ... the assumption is an _omnidirectional point source in free space_ ... none of which are true of speakers in a room.
Came across a channel you might be interested in (The Fixologist) where he attempts to repair a Hisense Roku TV & how they are built : Garbage. Almost impossible to repair. They are built that way on purpose. I wish I had your E-mail address but I know that if you gave it out a lot, you would be swamped in E-mails. I wonder if the more expensive Hisense TV's are designed to be able to be repaired or you're supposed to throw away if they break!
I’d say most gear today isn’t designed to be repairs by hand. They build them so small that it takes machines to really assemble parts. For the majority of items anyway. I’d say most repairs are really at the board replacement level.
Are "can be loud with a certain amount of power" and "sound good with a certain amount of power" the same? I wonder if the whole you don't need many watts argument is an over simplification of the issue because it rarely takes into account a multitude of other factors that might have an effect on what's needed (beyond just speaker sensitivity). Otherwise, how do you explain why a given pair of speakers running off a 50wpc AVR sound like they are starved (harsh) when the volume is cranked and then magically sound great when given their spec'd rms capability? It can't just be manufacturing or component quality differences between amps can it?
You likely rarely, if eve, listen at a speakers rms capability. That is the maximum they can run at without damage and that is super duper extra loud.
It's about loudspeaker distortion, small drivers distort a lot at 80+dB, if you want to go loud, buy a 3 way with a big woofer and keep your Amp. There's no free lunch for loud clean sound
Great video , good points, but because you don't buy into headroom does not make it untrue, when all speakers dip down to 6 or 4 ohms the more power you have to actually drive them to a reasonable listening volume is why you need a quality amp that's able to drive , more power at lower volume is clean and clarifying while still pushing the lower frequencies, cheap powerful amp will introduce noise ,,,,,, there are numerous variables you left out that I'm sure can be brought up by a whole slew of audio engineers not just sales people.
“More power at lower volume” isn’t a thing. If you pushed more power (watts) then it would just be louder. I agree that people should always invest in high quality amps. They are extremely important in the signal chain. Thanks for watching and the comment!
@@JilesMcCoy A tube amps watts are not the same as a class A/AB amp or class D,G etc
@@EM-ke8is A watt is a watt is a watt. It’s a unit of power. The type of amp that produces the watt of power is irrelevant to the amount of power. Now, if you are talking about the analog wave that is produced, yes, a tube amp will introduce distortion so the sound is different. But 1 watt is still 1 watt wherever it comes from.
@@EM-ke8is
Yeah they are. In any electrical circuit you care to mention, 1 watt is 1 volt across 1 ohm, causing 1 amp of current to flow. A Watt is a Watt.
Thanks for the information ❤
No problem 👍
Indian buffet has major spicy watts!!!
For sure!!!
Subb'd and Thumb'd... Nice to hear a plain speak explanation.. Not all of us are Electrical Engineer audiophiles, listening to music through a scope or sensor of some sort, while sipping 100.00 merlot!.. Some of us are simply... I want good sound, great sound if I can get it... Can I use what I got or do I need something else to help...? My question is... Those 8000 Klipsch towers... Given say.....80 watts vs. 90 watts, vs 100 watts... what difference in quality at say... 80db does it actually make between the wattages.. is it the quality of loud vs soft volume or quality of sound vs. watts...?
A certain power (watts) into a certain speaker (the sensitivity) will give you a certain loudness (DBs). When you twist the knob on the receiver, more watts come out of the amplifer that make the speaker play louder. So at 80 DB of sound you are using a specific amount of wattage, to go louder you use more watts.
Thank you!! So it is not about the quality needing the watts, more about the volume ?@@JilesMcCoy
@@MaestroPrep Most of the time when you listen you are using less than 1 watt.
@@MaestroPrep
More power also means reduced quality because you are pushing the speakers further and harder putting more stress on the cones and motors, ultimately causing more distortion. The less a cone moves, the more accurately it moves. So best quality is about listening at reasonable levels.
If you can get your hands on a sound level meter (they're not particularly expensive) you can check this for yourself... Set your listening level to about 60dba on average and take note of the detail and openness of the sound. Then try again at 80dba ... it will not be simply louder (a lot louder, actually) it will also be somewhat less dynamic and more of a continuous thumping.
Add to this the matter that our ears are most sensitive to nuance and detail at about 55 to 65 dba (conversational levels) and as it gets louder sensory overload begins to play a part and it becomes almost oppressive at higher levels.
Virtually every system I've had sounds best at about 60 to 65 dba on music. Plus, the neighbours don't hate me (Grin).
i have the xpa emotiva with 7 stereo module 14 channel amp
Awesome!
@@JilesMcCoy
I wanted to ask: did your muse only need a firmware update for it to support HDMI 2.1, or did it need a hardware upgrade?
It all depends how you listen, headphones or the LA Memorial Coliseum.
True, but everything follows the same rules!
My surrounds are 86db sensitive and are about 2 meters away. So thats 80db at 1 watt. To hit reference, it takes about 300 watts.
Not that I listen at reference. But I want to eventually externally amplify all my speakers with about 200 watts per channel. A Denon receiver running 11 channels is going to provide around 70 watts per channel. In my case external amplification make sense.
Sounds right. I used external amplification for my home theater too.
Thx for a great explanation. Finally understood what watt means (pun intended) 😊
Btw, kinda confusing with the online calculator is set to imperial, not metres.
I noticed that too. But it really doesn’t matter thankfully. It’s a function of units. So the calculator was showing the attenuation when you change from 1 unit of whatever to 3 units of whatever.
Hi Jiles, my 2 cents worth is cone speakers generally do not exceed 95 db/W due to mechanical limitations of magnetic structures unless huge money is spent. The other design criteria limiting performance comes to Hoffman's iron law, where bass performance is a trade off between efficiency, extension and cabinet size. It's called an iron law because there's pretty much no bypassing it. As a thought, my speakers are tri amped 3 way using two bass drivers and two mid drivers with a single tweeter. I run a combined output of 1500 RMS for the LCR as they are all identical speakers. Yes it's loud but undistorted in a large room, nobody has ever said that it's too loud. Sub performance is matched too, down to 12 Hz.
Sounds like a nice setup! I’d love to see pics!
@@JilesMcCoy Hi Jiles, do you have a website that I can upload to? RUclips seems to have no ability for me to send pictures.
@@brucemibus9523 You can email me or create a thread at hometheaterfanatics.com
To go loud Pro grade drivers is the way, they use kilowatt amps on high sensitivity drivers.
@@melaniezette886 Pity that pro stuff usually give up linearity dynamic range and flat power response to get the high efficiency. Bass is the hardest thing as Hoffman's law works against getting low bass.
Great video. I have Klipsch towers in my two channel system and I was rarely able to set the volume control past 9 o'clock. I was really interested in your wattage graphs. When my house was being built, I ran a dedicated outlet right to the breaker box for my stereo and home theater with two subs, etc. I'm glad I did because the idiot electricians ran my family room, my hallways, my living room, my garage, my outdoor lights and outdoor outlets on one circuit and the breaker has popped a couple of times. Imagine if my home theater was on that circuit. One of those outlets is only 3 feet away from my dedicated outlet.
Right on! Thanks for the comment!
My Cambridge Audio AX25 has plentiful amount of power at 25w, with a toroidal transformer for power surges.
I’d love to hear that amp one day!
@@JilesMcCoy you're welcome to hear it. Just give me enough time to put the kettle on. 😉
I used a Nad 25W Amp and it was fine cause I don't ear loud.
The best power rating to me is 100 Watts per channel
Right on!
I have noticed a nicer punch on the low end of my bookshelf speakers when I went 100W and above per channel. I think 100W is the sweet spot if you are running full range 2 channel fronts. If you are on 2.1 with the fronts crossing over at 80Hz or so, then you don't need a whole lot of watts. My current setup is Arcam Music Solo with 80W Class G amp where the first few watts are Class A then it moves on to Class A/B after that. I have no issues powering my speakers with it and they sound wonderful.
Sounds like a nice set up!
@@JilesMcCoy Thank You
I wonder how many people have true full range tho. I say get a single sub. If you go with more than a whole lot more issues can pop up, and you can end up with less bass.
@@SlyNine I prefer a sub myself. Some people shy away from a sub and then they complain not enough bass.
First, I think Klipsch is bad example. It's very sensitive, would be better to choose something more average, around 90-92dB.
Second. I do agree. Once I measured how much W I'm listening and was very surprised that it was below 1W per speaker.
Agreed. Let's talk about what is needed to drive the popular "high-end" speakers from B&W, KEF, and Focal. Those speakers are hard to drive. And to make them pound fast and accurate during peaks loudness you need amplifiers that can rail and summon power dynamically during the transients.
You can follow the same process for any speaker. Thanks for watching!
You can do the math easily for any any speaker. Just start with it’s sensitivity. In the video I call out that an 89db sensitive speaker is all calculated with the same process.
I recently migrated from an older 75 watts rms 2 channel onkyo avr to separate Processor and Amp. I was always happy with my 7.1 sound for movies with the Onkyo. New amp is rated 180 rms @ 2 channel @8 ohms and 300 @4 ohms. My 7.1 cinema has seen marginal improvement. But listening to 2 channel stereo with/without sub is SUBSTANTIALLY better - soundstage, clarity, etc. - perhaps my speakers design needed more juice? 3 way tower design 4 ohms and 89 efficiency.
Sounds like a good set!
Distortion rises at the higher end of the amplifier rating so having a little headroom should not be discounted. Also, using a 98 dB inflated example to make the case... would go with 90 dB for a tower and 85-88 for surrounds hitting 102 dB peaks.
That all makes sense. Thanks for the comment!
Distortion also rises at low volume, it's a U shape
Look at the Ohms as well. 2.83v/1Watt is for an 8 Ohm speaker. 2.83 volts at 4 Ohms would be equivalent to 2 Watts.
Thanks for the clarification. I was working in 8 ohm world!
Metric and Imperial is not the same.
Very different
But simple math can and does accurately convert between them...
1 metre == 3 feet 3 1/4 inches.
5W but 7w would be better. 17w would be best KT88 Tube SET. 20W from a GM100 Set Amp but those are hard to get right now.
I’ll have to check those out!
@@JilesMcCoy check out Fluxion brand amps
@@MrRourk Will do!
I have 6 Crown XLS Amplifiers with a total of 12,000 watts RMS to power 6 Subwoofers,same power as my local Theater!
Nice! What are you feeding that with, 3 or 4 240v 30 amp circuits?
@@JilesMcCoy 😆 wow...no sir! The Crown amps are Class D have them on regular old 15amp circuit!
2- XLS 1000 surrounds,buttkickers
1- XLS 1500 Left and Right
1- XLS 2000 18" Sub
2 -XLS 2500s 21" Sub
Ridiculous, I don't believe the Klipsch is 98dB!!! That's insane. Probably be something like 90dB... and there goes your mathematics completely in the trash
The math is still the same … just a different starting point. The sensitivity of a speaker is very important… but folks use much less power than they think they do.
@@JilesMcCoy Yes but do the math now, how much power you will need with 90dB/1/1m @4mtr listening distance. To get to reference peak level (105dB) you will be needing 512W! So yeah you need a lot of power if you want to be able to enjoy the full dynamics. THX reference is 85dB average with 20dB headroom. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CMB93jYBwO-2vdPyJttbbC0vdDyAkyEFXxhiMF4Duws/edit?usp=sharing
Do you sit 1 meter (3 feet) from your speakers , me either.
No, thats why you account for distance in your calcs.
Wattage isn't a useful metric on an amplifier outside of bass reproduction. The correct question is; How much voltage gain do you need? Amplifier gain correlated with quality is what we're after in most cases.
Thanks for the info!
Nice job trying to explain the subject in a way almost anyone could understand.
You might be surprised at the number of people that are sitting past 3 meters though.
Thanks! The process to calculate can be used for the further distance too. The farther away the more wattage you will need.
@@JilesMcCoy
Is that really true?
I have a sound level meter and between 1m from my speakers to my sitting position about 4m away there is only about 3 dba of difference. Even in the far corners of my room there is only 6 or 8 dba of difference.
A lot of these online calculators are based on the Inverse Square Law which calculates field density in free space with omnidirectional sources. But a room is not free space and speakers are not omnidirectional...
@@Douglas_Blake_579 It’s an approximation, yes. The concepts are really true, yes.
@@JilesMcCoy
I'm aware of the concepts. As a one time ham radio operator I used to build my own antennas and by making them directional I could easily get apparent gains of 6 to 10 db over omnidirectional antennas. But after a few years of messing with sound, I'm not seeing the same roll off with distance... especially indoors where a speaker can essentially pressurize the whole room. The effect I'm seeing is more like a microwave oven where the cooking chamber is saturated with concentrated RF.
@@JilesMcCoy
An update .... 1 metre vs 4 metres, white noise, single speaker, 70db vs 66db spl ... Now I'm not saying there's no drop with distance, it's obviously there but it is not what the Inverse Square Law would have us believe.
Field density does not roll off as 1 / (4 pi (r x r) )... it's way less than that.
The concept is sound... there is a distance related roll off, but the calculations and the resulting power recommendations are probably not as accurate as you might hope.
But if you stay in the first 20% of your power you will never get into the Distortion profile. That is why people believe in more Head Room is more better. Haha
Then you're wasting money and just killing your SNR because the amp-output SINAD will just be noise-limited
Buy an amp that has the power you need at the distortion you want. No need to overbuy.
I don’t think I was clear. If you are only using the first 10-20% of your amps power it will be the most clean and clear sounding. Over 50% and you will start to add distortion or strain the dynamics. Keep up the good work Jiles. I do like your content.
@@mudnsavy Thanks!
Had to stop the video, too many variables for your statements to be true.
Thanks for watching!