Miquella is NOT a "good guy"! Some people seem to be confused here. I clearly state he is likely forcing us via control/charm to enact his plans and likely Ordered Malenia to murder Radahn (who is both Miquella and Malenia's Half-brother) I plan to go over more of Miquella's negative intentions in my next Messmer video since it ties into Messmer being a "hero" more that way and is harder to see Miquella as "evil" without mentioning why Messmer is "good"
@@Dressyone223right, I dislike Ranni just for her complicity in killing Godwyn. She speculated she would chosen after Marika only because the twins were afflicted. Siding with him, Fia, or Goldmask seemed the lesser of the two evils.
I think messmer started the dragon communion. Go look around at the cathedral. The fire in the alter, the lion images on the bottom of alter, and even the statues.
One thing that struck me about the Haligtree is that a tree watered with the blood of a boy who was cursed to never grow would itself never reach full growth. We know cursed blood can transfer its properties in the form of damage - perhaps the damage Miquella’s does is passive in that it does not harm, but it does impede. I think after realizing that he could only impede Malenia’s rot rather than cure it, he began to look for ways to break his *own* curse, knowing that doing so holds the key to pulling the world out of its kegare state of stunted growth, defilement and stagnation.
I agree with your statement! However i think there were just a lot more moving parts to pull it off! For example, Miquella may have grown his Hailgtree extremely tall, but it probably couldnt turn into an Erdtree, so he tried to ascend into a god, and after he becomes a god then it would be possible! Seems like this would be another possible reason for miquella to want to rebirth in the first place!
Who knows? Maybe he transferred his curse to the tree in totally? It would explain why he's bigger now. I'm also wondering if the name Mesmer is a hint. And in short for mesmerizing. Who is known for doing that? Just a thought.
This is interesting! What comes to mind to me is that Miquella is referred to as someone with abundant potential, being in his constant state of youth which is perhaps why he is so talented in learning and adapting to new philosophies. - (Young people usually have an easier time to learn than adults.) Anyway, it’s interesting that no matter what he does he his never able to completely hit the mark, despite his "abundance". Haligtree is incomplete and Malenia still rotting
Given the fact that Miquella appears to be Torrents former master, it seems like he has been guiding us since the beginning. If that’s true then I wonder how Melina and Ranni fit into Miquella’s plan since they both give you objects that once belonged to Torrents former master, Miquella. I can’t wait for the dlc and your next video
Just saw this video and it explained the connection of miquella, torrent , ranni and Melina really well. ruclips.net/video/qdLWALjPLKo/видео.htmlsi=KlUjB8KHLnHfENTB
What I find interesting about Miquella is that he offers refuge for Misbegotten, Royal Revenants, Albinaurics and the like, but has no Omen around the Haligtree. It seems a curious exception, especially since he likely knew about the Omen imprisoned beneath Leyndell. Why would he not offer sanctuary to them? There are two bodies at the Haligtree with the Seedbed curse on them, however, though no Omen. It is peculiar.
@@allietyri there are Omen out of the sewers, both on Altus plateau and in Stormveil. There is a Death Blight worshipping Omen near Leyndell; he has his own followers. According to Lore an Omen can be born anywhere that there are births. There is no reason Miquella could not offer them shelter UNLESS he forsook them intentionally.
my main question because it seems quite vague but is miquella a force for good or evil, because people seem on the fence, i guess it's interpretable no matter what like marika but i'm not sure
I think he’ll turn out exactly like his mother to be honest. Someone mysterious who’s wins the hearts of everyone, but has plans of their own that no one can figure out. Mesmer might act like Radagon as well, trying to stop Miquella like Radagon tried stopping Marika
I think, relative to Marikas golden order and the erdtree, Miquella would be seen as a "bad guy". Openly challenging and rejecting the faith of the Erdtree- Accepting of those seen as unwanted by the erdtree (misbegottens and albinaurics). Miquella is considered a "traitor" to the Erdtree as spoken by Morgott. We as tarnished openly defy and destroy Marikas golden order, so as fate would have it our goals align with Miquella, but we know the moment he needs someone dead, he doesnt hesitate to have Malenia kill Radahn (his brother!) on his behalf! And that he is likely using us to fulfill his goals!
I’m in the camp that he is ultimately a force for good. Despite his ability to compel loyalty he seems to have genuine and pure intentions, given his efforts to cure his sister and provide a home for those spurned by the Golden Order.
I think he’s gonna be a morally grey character, seeing as he’s always seeking purity, and if you have to get purity and flourishing of everything, surely you have to purge and kill a lot to get there and anyone who rejects your goal has to be swiftly crushed. Also if you “shrive clean the hearts of man” I think you couldn’t really call them human anymore because you forcefully remove greed and other bad elements which make them who they are.
I personally think Miquella wants a more natural world like our own but one that allows all forms to continue existing. Look at the Haligtree - Almost all of the downtrodden are represented except for Those That Live In Death. I think that could be the result of PTSD from seeing his brother Godwyn's downfall. Also related to the influence of Radagon's indoctrination in the Golden Order fundamentalism. But ultimately Miquella wanted a more broad representation in the Lands Between.
The option to get a couple of new endings in the main thanks to the dlc including one were miquella ascents to godhood with us as elden lord would be awesome
@@qqqqq9953I'd bet we'll get a special rune and a unique ending with Miquella, but if we choose not to help him we can do any of the other endings as usual.
Things that popped up in my mind while listening: 1. Jerren is a bloody finger and Okina helps in the Rahdan festival. Mohg has a great incentive to make the stars move for his dynasty aswell. 2. Ranni gives us very personal things related to Miquella which could point to the fact that the age of stars is Miquella's end goal for the tarnished in the base game aswell. Getting rid of the gods influence and possibly the scarlet rot from Malenia. Ranni abides so that she can get rid of the fingers and their influence over her and let the stars reign. 3. We can not rule out that Mohg is under Miquella's rule or being manipulated by him. Miquella uses a lot of blood for his metamorphosis. Mohg could have been seen as a failsafe to gain a lot of blood considering the mausoleum's location right under the battlefield where Malenia was sent to fight Rahdan. But the stars halted the process and his work in the Shadow Lands is not yet completed. Guessing we will find Miquella under the guise of St. Trina in the expansion. A lot of colouring in the trailer was light purple
Radahn also didnt want Sellia destroyed, since he was a student there. He learned gravity magic to stop the stars from dropping onto Sellia, and also to stop Astel from landing (also to ride leonard lol)
Miyazaki saying we need to kill radahn to enter the dlc is almost proof that malenia fought him for the same reason, for miquella to achieve his goal in the land of shadow!
Idk if someone has pointed out but while mohg is seemingly the representation of the devil (at least visually). I think its worth mentioning that messer seems to be a reference to Lucifer/samael. Specifically i think he's the first born of radagon and marika,first to fall, first to question the golden order. From then on everything that was associated with him snakes, flame, etc was deemed as blasphemy. Potentially he was stripped of grace and was kept in the shadow to do his mothers bidding. Yes this ties into "the messmer is the hero" video, but i think that simple connection can add a lot of context as to who he truly is. **Head cannon but melina gotta be messmers daughter or something. Not sure what it is, but surely it relates to melina being the glome eyed queen
This is definitely my new headcannon on why Radahn and Malenia clashed, and why Miquella didn't respond to Mohg's corruption. Very cool video man. Would love to know your thoughts on Melina and Rannis involvement with Miquella, since they both seem to guide you from the start, and provide you items that are heavily suggested to be Miquellas.
So my theory: Melania has never known defeat because her goal was not to kill rhadan but to end the shattering and bring the world to a state of rotten stagnation. We know rhadan must be defeated to enter the shadow so perhaps rotting him was a calculated move to stall anyone from following miquella. Maybe the cocoon was simply miquella's method of dreaming his way to the shadowlands (as st trina) for a yet unknown purpose. Melania awaits his *return* not rebirth i think she knows hes in the shadow land but not that he was kidnapped? Perhaps the whole plan was to buy time for the haligtree to bloom while miquella retrieved something from the shadow land (likely a perfected needle or the materials required to forge one).
You bring up a lot of interesting points, and I think you're mostly on base about a lot of what will likely happen in the story, but I have some other theories that may synergize with your own and explain a lot more (especially regarding Miquella's experiments with Castle Sol). If what you posit about Radahn holding back not just the stars but the moon is true, and Miquella really is trying to start an eclipse to try and bring back the soul of Godwyn, then I believe Miquella may also be trying to access the Helphen Spiritworld to do so. The area around Castle Sol is full of enemies who utilize the same ghostflame of the Helphen and Helphen's Steeple, as well as the upper part of the Castle just having countless spirit-like enemies. As Vaati talked about in one of his previous ER videos (I forget which), he says that the Helphen existed before the Erdtree ever did, and now pairing it with this video I'm beginning to remember more and more, like how Marika removed the Rune Of Destined Death from the Elden Ring. What if Destined Death was a part of the Helphen that was incorporated into the Ring when the Elden Beast was sent to the Lands Between? And when the Black Knives killed Godwyn in soul (and Ranni herself in body), they sent his soul into the spirit world? And the entire goal of Miquella is to bring Godwyn back so he can attain the abilities of unalloyed gold without having to make use of the land outside time in Farum Azula?
I think the Eclipse was his first plan to become a god, and it was before the shattering, it was the same night as the night of the black knives. Godwyn was meant to be slain and resurrected as Elden Lord, similar to Hora Loux becoming Godfrey. Miquella as Empyrean would be his consort and inherit the Elden Ring. I think Miquella was the only one who knew he was an empyrean which he kept secret, everyone else just thought he was cursed. I think Ranni was employed or coerced (prolly employed though) by Miquella to use her Carian Royalty ties to broker a deal with the eternal cities, this bond is shown through selia and ordina. I don't think she knew Miquella was an Empyrean, because the only reason I can think for her sabotaging the eclipse is if she thought SHE would become the vessel, and this could even be her tie to Melina. Perhaps it was Melina that influenced her to betray the plan. Perhaps it was even Rennala trying to force her to carry it out in hopes she would embrace becoming the new god, which would explain why she became so distraught and obsessed with rebirth when the plan goes awry and Ranni dies, if she thinks it was her words that made Ranni unalive herself. The Amber of the unborn was also not a gift, it was a reminder of Rannis failed ressurection, Radagon would have seen the night of the black knives as a betrayal from the Carians and wouldn't even have the slightest suspicion of Miquellas involvement. Radahn and Rykard knew though. I think that's where Ranni has alliances with the two, Radahn stalls the stars to keep Miquella from getting that power and Rykard hides the blasphemous claw and deathrune fragments it has on it. He's likely the one to carve the curse mark into Ranni's back. I think Radagon wouldve disowned the two and focused on his cursed children and expanding fundamenalism. Think marikas own words in the altus plateau about blind faith not being enough any more and alluding to fundamentalism. I think miquella then abandons the erdtree and grows his haligtree, and generates his following by preaching as st Trina, specifically to hide his intentions of overthrowing the erdtree from radagon. He preaches about the eclipse failing and his new plan to sew himself into the new tree to be reborn. Radagon learns of miquellas betrayal through either rykard, radahn or rennala, or just keen wits, and does the shattering. No more need for st Trina, miquella is already 10 steps ahead of radagon. He sews himself in the cocoon where he starts invading dreams to influence people. I believe he can do this because of his haligtree, where the bewitching branch comes from. It's possible here he meets Melina and gives her torrent, but maybe this union happens even before the eclipse, it would explain how he has always possessed some arcane knowledge. I believe he poses as the formless mother to tell mohg to steal his cocoon and place it below caelid so it can soak up the blood from melanias and radahns battle, and then our battle with radahn. It doesn't matter if melania wins or loses, radahn will be taken down by us anyway, and I think miquella counts on that. I think he needs us to get the great runes to be able to challenge morgott and in the dlc we will see him resurrected and he will instantly banish us to the shadows so he can finish growing his haligtree. To what ends? prolly mass sacrifice a la Berzerk or fullmetal alchemist idk. Jack is not a Mimic led me to this theory, you should watch his vids. ruclips.net/video/TsekTzszrDQ/видео.html&ab_channel=JackisaMimic
I didnt even need the leaks or their possible implications. Those item descriptions you read at the start of the video already make me really reconsider Miquella.
i'm so happy that you were able to discuss with smoughtown! i think he's an absolutely excellent lore content creator on the platform! also i really like your theory on miquella needing radahn to release his hold on the stars. in fact earlier in the video i was thinking "don't you have to defeat radahn to enter the DLC as well?". either way a lot of fascinating points that i think are extremely interesting and could fit into the puzzle well! i can't wait to hear more of your theories and speculations thank you for your excellent and hard work.
Mohg must be more involved than we think. He comes from Miquellas blood, so I'm now under the assumption he was in the Land of Shadow. Likely working with Messmer. Messmer's spear has similar red jewels to Mohg's robes. Maybe Messmer is a third brother to Mohg and Morgott. Three forgotten, hidden brothers. (Except not morgott completely, due to his unwavering loyalty to Marika)
So I hear theory that she left by his orders to restore movement of the stars and the whole eclipse idea from Castle Sol. But what is never been established why she went or when, but my thoughts is how do the eclipse and the Haligtree ideas match up when we also know someone else stood to gain and also needed the stars to resume their movements. ✌🏼. The 3rd reason she would have left is he was already gone, and she went to find him. It’s also plausible that Ranni wanted the best chance of defeating Radhan without challenging him herself. If the goals align it doesn’t make one less possible.
I've had this theory for a while that Miquella was too similar to Griffith from Berserk to not be a Villian. The fact that Caelid was sacrificed so his Fates could move for his Eclipse, that Malenia's title is Miquella's blade which is what Griffith would call Guts and Casca ("his weapons") and that Miquella can make people love him and obey him in a terrifying way which is 1 to 1 what Griffith does, especially after his ascension to God Hand, it's just all too similar to be anything but the intention behind Miquella. Also if you add on that Miyazaki said that the DLC won't effect any of the endings of the main game, I think that Miquella will be the final Boss of the DLC, that you have to fight after he achieves his Godhood.
I agree but I also feel like miquella has influences of the moonlight child from berserk so maybe no quite as evil but as we know Griffith and the moonlight child are of one vessel so maybe st trina is like a femto alter ego
Redahn was protecting the world from outer threats From outer gods Estel is a threat from the stars As well as star beasts at various stages of maturity Redahn was protecting Selia So there was a reason he was in Caelid
SO glad to see another lore video dude! This was awesome and I think you're spot on with all of it. Totally agree that the only reason we have to kill Radahn to access the DLC is for lore consistency reasons and your theory is super compelling! What messes with my head is thinking about WHEN Miquella's "guidance/persuasion" over us for this task of his really began... after all, we get Torrent and the summoning bell within like 10 minutes of starting the game and both of these are gifts FROM Miquella!! Has he been puppeteering/"helping" us from the start? Is he why our initial maiden is dead... awful convenient his delivery girl Melina can also be our rune leveling maiden. Damn I love these prerelease speculation times! Keep 'em coming my friend you're crushing these! :) Oh and I'm curious who you think the opposing forces are that are warring in the Land of Shadows!? I'm thinking Crucible worshipers (the knight riding by the Wicker Man in a DLC image has a candle stick lookin motif on his horse that could match the weapons of the crucible priests we see in the trailer) vs ??? lol... maybe Messmer's gang or some new players we won't know til release... these games are art bro god dayum haha. Much love Syrobe!
In the DLC trailer somebody says 'I will not be far. May we meet again'. Based on that i ask myself who that could be. Melina usually burns with the erdtree and most quest NPCs wont survive their encounter with us. Miyazaki now told us Radahn has to be defeated as well and it raises questions. Ranni and Malenia were the characters who wanted to get rid of him and both have a strong connection to Miquella. Also there was a 'leak' with controlers for the DLC using their motives. Maybe this actually had a deeper meaning and based on our decisions in the main game Ranni or Malenia could be searching for Miquella in the DLC as well?
i remember a youtuber who once referred to Miquella as a "soft dictator" due to his troops in elphael or however you write it in the base game, his soldier wears some sort of helmet that mind-control them
Glad to see a new channel digging into the deep lore, even if I got shown it a month late! I'm right there with you on Miqy thinking he needs the fate of the stars to guide his ascendancy. I'm less sure it was about his metamorphosis, or at least ONLY about that. As mentioned, Miq watered the Haligtree with his own blood, but it failed to grow into maturity. This lines up with the Sacramental Bud description which says is an immature bud containing young blood. The point is that the nature of the blood seems to be absorbed into the tree it waters. For a demigod cursed with eternal youth, it makes sense the tree is also taking on that curse. Miq needs to somehow break that curse on himself before his tree can fulfill its purpose of supplanting the Erdtree and eradicating impurities like death blight, frenzy, and rot. He plans to inject unalloyed gold into the mature tree with a staff-sized needle, as depicted all over Elphael as a hooded figure stabbing a sharp nail down while surrounded by undead. This is also reminiscent of a common myth that driving a copper nail into a fruit tree staves off disease and stimulates fruit production.
All of the characters are using you, it would not be surprising if Miquella was too. Like Margit says, "Emboldened by the flame of ambition." Ambition has been the downfall of all of them.
I don't think we'll get to know Miquella's intent until we play through the DLC, but I definitely think that Malenia's fight against Radahn was out of some kind of order or command by Miquella. I mean, we know from the DLC announcement that you have to defeat Radahn and Mogh to start the dlc... Why would that be? Well, Miquella's fate is "in the stars", which were being held back by Radahn. Perhaps Radahn's stalling of the starfall is why Miquella's plans were on pause until the DLC?
@mrself5824 lol. He isnt GRR Martin. I believe winds is taking so long because the show WAS the correct book ending and people hated it so much he had to rewrite the thing from scratch.
He's using ME!? But wait aren't I just using HIM as an excuse to focus my psychopathic rage on "bad guys" for the "greater good"!?!? - Me, Elden Lord, post- therapist
Great job! I totally agree with you. I never bought into the idea that Miquella has entirely good intentions, regardless of him looking similar to the Berserk character, Griffith, there’s too much evidence that supports his manipulative and fearsome power. 27:58 Miquella is going to the Shadow Lands because it says, “where the goddess, Marika, first step foot.” And it’s possibly where she ascended, so it makes sense that the key to Miquella’s ascension would be there. And he’s going to use us to remove the one standing in his way, which is Messmer, so maybe HE is actually the hero, preventing Miquella’s ill intent.
It’s also curious how it seems that Miquella was not able “to compel such affection” from Rennala and Radagon’s children. If he could, then Radahn would have released his grip on the stars. Messmer has the red hair, but judging by his quote, Marika is his mother. So it will be interesting to see whether he has any loyalty to Miquella.
Amazing video! it always felt to me that Millennia was just a crazy bitch to release the scarlet rot out of pure ego, - just to win the fight. It seemed like there must've been a greater plan and a greater good she believed in, to do something that would cause that much damage to the world
When Messmer says mother it is the snake in the frame, also on the briar armor set there is a snake headed, humanoid (visible with free camera), if the snake is the gloam eyed queen and projects as Melena in the Lands Between, actually the gloam eyed queen chose you and not Marika so he is not necessarily child of Marika. Also GEQ + Placidusax = all the features of Messmer and the theory regarding Placidusax's God that left him. The sigils are fire (dragon) and snake (GEQ)
Yes! This has been my theory all along, that Miquella is using us and we're helpless to resist. He is known for having "the wisdom and allure of a god", being bewitching and ensnaring others to his cause. His weapon is love and no other weapon is more effective. Also. remember how you get Torrent from Renna/Ranni and them saying their former master wants you to have him? Who is riding Torrent on the Shadow of the Erdtree art Fromsoft released a while back? Miquella is masterminding this whole thing. I have a seperate theory that through this expansion our Tarnished character may figure out that Miquella is pulling our strings and we might have to decide to take them down or not
An argument to be made is that Mohg could also be apart of his plan. With Miquella watering the Haligtree with his blood, you can draw a connection to the formless mother, even more so now that he has divested himself of his flesh.
Is it just me or does it look like the divine towers may be veiling this land it just seems a little odd that they are all in a circle and we are unable to go anywhere in the circle and thier is a very large cloud on the map at the center of the circle. Its also very close to the erdtree and deeproot deapths and would explain why we see a different tree in the dlc i therorize that the tree in the dlc is actually the great tree itself also in the dlc trailer in many places you can see roots of the great tree coming up through the ground and out the side of mountains and ridges. This would go along with how the erdtrees obscured the location in the dlc its close enough to the erdtree to obscure it while also being close enough that if my theory is correct then the old great tree would fit in the lands of the dlc
I believe until proven otherwise that messmer is the child of marika and she places him in watch over the lands of shadow, after similar to marika herself the gloam eyed queen is trapped within the crucible/great tree. Unless messmer is really the child of the gloam eyed queen and radagon and he is referring to her and we have really been led by her the entire story so far; achieving her desires, burning the erdtree, bringing back destined death, defeating those that would be her opposition and eventually we will be granting her freedom from within the crucible tree.
Makes perfect sense that I as a Tarnished would become the Blade of Miquella. Because while I've seen his hands many times, I have never known... THE FEET!
Miquella is almost certainly based on Griffith who themselves is based on Lucifer. A beautiful, captivating, androgynous being of near perfection who can command both fear in his enemies and awe in his allies. Griffith sacrificed all his allies, friends, and loved ones to ascend into godhood during an eclipse... a shadow if you will. with the DLC taking place in a land of shadow where the light of the erdtree is eclipsed he could be preparing a great sacrifice to shed his curse and ascend fully. Miquella is also mentioned in almost every piece of equipment that pertains to an eclipse. I don't think this is coincidence. While Messmer may be an antagonist I don't think he is the villain, I think miquella is the exact opposite, he aids us but is the villain as he plans to use us for his own ends. Should they succeed it could imply a new order where freewill is not just limited like the current golden order but entirely removed as Miquella can command respect a love to a degree where others are willing to end their lives for him. He is not good, he is the ultimate authority and one that can rival even the outer gods. maybe his ultimate goal is to ascend to the status of an outer god like girffith becoming a godhand in berserk.
I mean Miquella is described as kind in the trailer and is this angelic "Griffith-like = red flag" figure hinted at in the main game. But IDK it's a From game, something sinister is about to happen. It's also confirmed there won't be a new ending for the main game. So maybe Miquella will be the final DLC boss and everything stays the same for the main game or someone was sockpuppeting him. The fact that he is childlike lets us dismiss him as a threat early of course as well as he's supposedly shrivelled up in a cocoon abducted by a monster. Then Malenia also attacks us on sight for no reason. And we finish her job of killing Radahn a prerequisite of starting the DLC in fact.
it makes a lot of sense that miquella is not on our side, because we killed his sister, the person he was trying to save. Well, maybe the DLC is set up before that, or he never knows it was us.... I really cant get that "Terrifying" part from the DLC, got to be some twist to Miquella, or maybe the person talking was a bad guy and he fears the good guy...
Haha ranni needed her fingers to fall from the sky This is how her fingers are damaged when you see them From the fall one redahn is dead It's not just a meteor It's the fingers falling from the stars
I think there’s significance to Miquella gesturing to the tree in the land of shadow. Just as Miquella established the haligtree to create basically another erdtree, he might be trying to use this tree in a similar fashion. To be housed in this tree in the way that Marika is housed in the erdtree. As though that would play a part in his assent to godhood. Just thoughts. Also “Shadow”, “Umbra”, “Eclipse” . . . I think there is some significance in Miquella “Eclipsing” the erdtree.
Now, I am hoping that we will get at least two different DLC endings, based on whether Malenia is still alive by the time Miquella finally attains his full godhood. If Miquella ultimately finds that Malenia has been killed by the Tarnished, Miquella ends up turning hostile toward the Tarnished, becoming the "secret boss" of the DLC.
Dope vid, thanks for sharing! I really hope there is a new ending for both Messmer and Miquella, as well as Malenia where she breaks from Miquella's control. I'd love for Messmer to be the empyrean that can't be bewitched, that sees through Miquella. Further, I strongly believe that Miquella's affliction extends beyond his boyish stature and inability to defend himself. The difference between intelligence and wisdom is experience and personal growth. Miquella's entire life has been a pursuit to fix problems, yet none have been truly rectified. Perhaps he can't learn from failure, like a child. Intelligent, but unable to properly wield it. Not sure any of that has any real grounds for belief. But here's to theorizing and obsessing over a 3 minute trailer two years after a game's initial release. What a hell of a story.
If there’s no true reason to why melania fought rahdan, mohg lives right under rahdan so going to Caelid, she probably felt rahdan was hiding miqella somewhere.
Your first lore video was excellent dude. Thats why i came to check this out after. Thats a lie. I watched the first one and finished clearing out all the bosses in Mt.Gilmore, lol. Still on my 1st playthrough. I got it in Jan, started in Feb, took a brake and got back on after i found out where the DLC takes place in the story. Im just taking my time with it, having fun, soaking up all the lore and exploring every inch i see.
Miquella is Ranni the witch. Both go into a “slumber” Both are protected by three lone wolves. Knight Loretta protects Ranni at Caria manor. Loretta also protects the haligtree. Both characters are separated from their body in spirit. Both characters have alternate identities. Both characters are connected to the moon. Both Ranni and Miquella want an “age of dark” and to block out the sun. Ranni has a shadow (Blaiid) and Miquella goes to the land of shadows. Both characters are manipulating NPCs to do their bidding. Miquella is shown with three wolves in several statues. Ranni is protected by three wolves at her tower and she is also the person who gives you the lone wolf summons.
This was dope. I'm 100% on board with this theory! I think the end of the dlc will have us fight Mickey in his God form as a bonus bss or actual final boss after Messmer. Or He needs to inhabit the tarnished body to ascend, thereby sacrificing the player for "the greater good" and mickey's goals
Loved this. I've been having the same thoughts as well and I really liked all your points. One thing that has been on my mind in terms of fate is why Miquella is affected by it at all. The game specifically states that Carians are the ones whose fate is guided by stars. My theory is based the words of the Miriel the Turtle Pope. When Radagon married Renala, Miriel states that the fate of Caria and the Golden Order become conjoined. Many of us take this as a simple saying, but we should take it as Radagon actually, literally grafting the Golden Order onto the stars. When he leaves Renala, Radahn must have already halted the stars, or the Golden Order's fate would have possibly changed overnight. Gowry states that none of the Demigods could stave off the effects of the Erdtree when it flourished. Indicating a metaphysical phenomenon as well as all of them being born before or close to the beginning of this era. Radhan did proudly fight under Godfrey after all. Ranni and Miquella are forced to give up their Erdtree tainted bodies to break away from their fates, fates specifically under the frozen Golden Order. Finally we have to ask whether Sellia was ever in any danger considering they decided to change the landscape of part of Limgrave significantly but Sellia; the place Radhan is stated as protecting as part of the Starscourge is unchanged. Not even a single new enemy. "Planetary movement" could explain it. We still get day/night but being surrounded by water and with the power of Radhan I doubt it. I believe someone lied to him, and someone really close and perhaps was loyal to.
“Shrive clean the hearts of men” “nothing more terrifying” just this sentence alone should ring some alarm bells about Miquella. He may be loved by many, and may appear saintly, the first sentence of the trailer is hinting at manipulation… Mesmer may be the “poster” big bad, but I reckon Miquella is secretly the one behind the curtain…
maybe miq’s flaw is love/ obsession he seems to be the one of all demi gods to be on the other side of extremist decisions from his family i think we might be a tragic hero’s last line of defense against reality
I think Ranni's quest tells use some other important details. We can ascend the throne as elden lord without killing Rahdan because it's still the Golden order just slightly modified, Marika/elden beast are still the ruling god. In order to bring about a new age with a new god and elden lord seperate from the golden order like Ranni wants she needed fate to not be stagnant but she also had to separate herself from the Golden order which included he body. Just as Ranni had to enact the night of black knives to separate her soul from her Golden order body; I think Miquella realized he had to do the same to create his own order. I think he intentionally manipulated Mogh into warping his body to "divest himself of his flesh, lineage, and the Golden order" so he could become a god of a new age. I think it's clear that everyone at the Hailgtree knows Miquella is gone but is promised to return meaning his absence was planned to some extent.
14:08 you seem to forget that Radahn hold the stars sealed, tabt fact means that all destinies halted. So in order for Miquella to ascend God hood as he was destined, STARS MUST BE IN MOVEMENT so the wheels of destiny to start roll again for all including Miquella, Ranni and everyone. Why when comes to Radahn seem to forget about it?
Oh shit what if ( way out there theory) What if Miqs goal is to have an eclipse and fuse his spirit into godwyna body. His body would stretch around all of the lands and he could sprout his bewitching branches all over the world and he could fully control everyone all at once. 😮😅
It was revealed that you have to defeat Radahn and Mogue in order to access the new area, so the idea that the stars or eclipse are important to the process makes the most sense.
What about this: Miquella's plan needed more blood for a new Erdtree so he bewithched Mough to kidnap him and compelled him to brim the cocoon insane amounts of blood. All the dynasty speech is derivatives about love from Mough, and includes Albinaurics (same as Halightree), and is a funnel from blood (an ingredient for ascention) all that can be aplied to Miquella's plan instead of Mough. Mogh is not depicted as someone who will lead, but he will bring a new era, pretty much all that the formation of a new Erdtree means. I don't recall that Miquella's body in the coccoon is a corpse, but his "body", so it still can be a plan in progress. Miquella's ability to compell people to die for him is a pretty terrifing thing, and people tend to go over the fact that he can be a perpretator insted of a victim, pulling the strings from behind the veil
My theory is it’s something about having a tree that will make him ascend, The location and the tree is a fixer upper and the only obstacle is Messmer and I think Messmer is deemed a “hero” by Miyazaki because he upholds the Golden Order even though he’s affliction like Morgott will fight tooth and nail even though he’s an outcast… It’s a place where the ones who are hated by the golden order can seek refuge since his body was taken prematurely plus his age wouldn’t rival his mother/father Marika and Radagon… I think Miquella isn’t necessarily a bad guy like some theory but isn’t a good guy deemed by those because his will or godhood is or will be a rivalry to the greater will…
I don’t think he is a villain, but he’d be a very intressting one if he used his powers to their fullest, I can see the potential of him being fearsome in the most literal sense. Imagine Malenia’s blossoming, just not spreading rot, but flooding entire battlefields with enchanted pink butterflies and flowers, cause a murderous dancing plague and turn the whole place into some glorious flower field with mangled corpses everywhere and a lingering mesmerizing mist
Great theory, good evidence for it, too. If you're right I feel like there's a good chance that Miquella ends up being either the Final Boss or the Super Boss of the DLC, as there will have to be a reason why him becoming a god doesn't affect the ending of the game.
I was thinking close to the same thing! I have this theory that at the very end of the DLC, Miquella is going to pull something, and we have to team up with Messmer to fight him! A bit more tin-foil hat point could be that Miquella NEEDS Messmer out of the way as well! Miquella's story is NOT as bright as some think it is! I bet we will see how FAR Miquella is willing to go to become a FULL God! Would it be so BADASS to fight along side a Demi-God, Messmer, to battle a God who could pull who-knows-what! Miquella could have a Deathblight Vassal Beast of all we know! If Miquella was willing to have his half-brother out-right KILLED, to go FULL villain, his twin-sister out of the way too, since Miquella sees a more powerful "Blade" he can try to control! MAN, the DLC is going to be INSANE!
I mean from what we can tell, Miquella’s basically “The Abundance” from Star Rail. I don’t think I’d call him evil. If anything the only person more morally good in terms of their end goals would be Rani, assuming you value freedom over prosperity. If you value evolution and prosperity though… Miquella seems to be the man.
Except Miquella's body isn't dead. He's "divested" from it in other words his soul is kind of like astral projection which why he doesn't have his former "glory". His body looks withered because his metamorphosis was interrupted. Kind of like if you open a cocoon too early the proto butterfly inside will look rather.... unhealthy. He can't return to his body though thanks to the bloody jerk that interrupted it. I the does he WILL die for certain.
Hearing you talk about miquella made me realize that if he was giving his blood the hailgtree then he mustve needed more blood since it seems like he agreed to be mohg’s consort and Mohg is the lord of blood. Mohg is feeding Miquella in exchange for helping him. So he could be continuing to grow the hailgtree or he is planning to the hailgtree on a greater scale and killing mohg I think we kinda messed up his plans but not completely tho
I have so much on miquella being the villain of this story that I am very close to just dump everything here. But instead I'll say a small thing that you "missed" Miquella found a amber starlight. A starlight that rules the destiny of the Gods just like normal starlight governs the destiny of men. If Ranni star is stagnated and her destiny cannot be attain, so is Miquella star. He needed Radahn killed and sent Malenia to kill Radahn.
This probably would just be like the default Elden Lord ending - solving nothing but to resume the decay process of the world... But perhaps Radahn's hold on the stars had to be released for a potential eclipse, so that Miquella would be able to return? Surely if Miquella knew his relatives so well and knew people loved him jealously, he would know Mohg's nature as well. So perhaps he had knew that Mohg, or SOMEONE would make an attempt to interrupt his metamorphosis for their own plans, which would end up killing him. So with that in mind he knew his only way back was for the stars to move, and an eclipse to come for the possibility of returning. However the concern is that after that happens, Malenia is in a worse state than before (or we killed her). Hence, newly re-emerged Miquella is crushed and his own demigod trait reaches its point of corruption. Some sort of justice retribution type thing in which he would be punishing wrongdoers all while knowing who does wrong, and what wrongs they did. Putting a target on the Tarnished back, as well as other demigods. That's just some random fantasy I came up with that doesn't really fit the Souls style, but the point is Miquella reaches his goal, "But at what cost?" No idea what Messmer would have to do with all of that or what role he might play, besides being some kind of temptor to either Miquella, or us. The significance of a serpent biblically is that of a temptor that causes another to fall out of grace, while also being cursed to slither. (No idea what snakes did before) So Messmer's blasphemy and temptations caused damage to the world, demigods, outer beings, and himself. So maybe he dies early and then haunts us for the rest of the DLC or something. I dunno.
Miquella is NOT a "good guy"! Some people seem to be confused here. I clearly state he is likely forcing us via control/charm to enact his plans and likely Ordered Malenia to murder Radahn (who is both Miquella and Malenia's Half-brother)
I plan to go over more of Miquella's negative intentions in my next Messmer video since it ties into Messmer being a "hero" more that way and is harder to see Miquella as "evil" without mentioning why Messmer is "good"
Am I really being forced if I was willing to side with Miquella the whole time?
@@Dressyone223I like to think Messmer is like Morgott.
Can't wait to slaughter St. Trina in the final boss fight.
@@Dressyone223right, I dislike Ranni just for her complicity in killing Godwyn. She speculated she would chosen after Marika only because the twins were afflicted. Siding with him, Fia, or Goldmask seemed the lesser of the two evils.
I think messmer started the dragon communion. Go look around at the cathedral. The fire in the alter, the lion images on the bottom of alter, and even the statues.
after finishing the dlc its kinda crazy how much this video did get right
Perhaps the real blade of Miquella was the friends we made along the way.
One thing that struck me about the Haligtree is that a tree watered with the blood of a boy who was cursed to never grow would itself never reach full growth. We know cursed blood can transfer its properties in the form of damage - perhaps the damage Miquella’s does is passive in that it does not harm, but it does impede. I think after realizing that he could only impede Malenia’s rot rather than cure it, he began to look for ways to break his *own* curse, knowing that doing so holds the key to pulling the world out of its kegare state of stunted growth, defilement and stagnation.
I agree with your statement! However i think there were just a lot more moving parts to pull it off! For example, Miquella may have grown his Hailgtree extremely tall, but it probably couldnt turn into an Erdtree, so he tried to ascend into a god, and after he becomes a god then it would be possible! Seems like this would be another possible reason for miquella to want to rebirth in the first place!
This is what i think as well. But his body in the cocoon does seem pretty big, so it might be that he overcame his curse somehow?
Who knows? Maybe he transferred his curse to the tree in totally? It would explain why he's bigger now. I'm also wondering if the name Mesmer is a hint. And in short for mesmerizing. Who is known for doing that? Just a thought.
This is interesting! What comes to mind to me is that Miquella is referred to as someone with abundant potential, being in his constant state of youth which is perhaps why he is so talented in learning and adapting to new philosophies. - (Young people usually have an easier time to learn than adults.)
Anyway, it’s interesting that no matter what he does he his never able to completely hit the mark, despite his "abundance". Haligtree is incomplete and Malenia still rotting
🤯
Given the fact that Miquella appears to be Torrents former master, it seems like he has been guiding us since the beginning. If that’s true then I wonder how Melina and Ranni fit into Miquella’s plan since they both give you objects that once belonged to Torrents former master, Miquella. I can’t wait for the dlc and your next video
I said this on Reddit and the first couple comments swore I was crazy for the thought lol
It’s Reddit what else would you expect from those trolls
What if we were under his influence from the moment we touched Torrents ring 😳
@@syrobe what if Ranni and Melina were under Miquella’s influence the whole time?
Just saw this video and it explained the connection of miquella, torrent , ranni and Melina really well.
ruclips.net/video/qdLWALjPLKo/видео.htmlsi=KlUjB8KHLnHfENTB
What I find interesting about Miquella is that he offers refuge for Misbegotten, Royal Revenants, Albinaurics and the like, but has no Omen around the Haligtree. It seems a curious exception, especially since he likely knew about the Omen imprisoned beneath Leyndell. Why would he not offer sanctuary to them? There are two bodies at the Haligtree with the Seedbed curse on them, however, though no Omen. It is peculiar.
ive always thought it was because omen cant necessarily leave the sewers without being hunted by omenkillers, as opposed to the others on the surface
@@allietyri there are Omen out of the sewers, both on Altus plateau and in Stormveil. There is a Death Blight worshipping Omen near Leyndell; he has his own followers. According to Lore an Omen can be born anywhere that there are births. There is no reason Miquella could not offer them shelter UNLESS he forsook them intentionally.
@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 ohhhhh good to know
Hats off to you and your clairvoyant thesis my good sir!
my main question because it seems quite vague but is miquella a force for good or evil, because people seem on the fence, i guess it's interpretable no matter what like marika but i'm not sure
I think he’ll turn out exactly like his mother to be honest. Someone mysterious who’s wins the hearts of everyone, but has plans of their own that no one can figure out. Mesmer might act like Radagon as well, trying to stop Miquella like Radagon tried stopping Marika
I think, relative to Marikas golden order and the erdtree, Miquella would be seen as a "bad guy". Openly challenging and rejecting the faith of the Erdtree- Accepting of those seen as unwanted by the erdtree (misbegottens and albinaurics).
Miquella is considered a "traitor" to the Erdtree as spoken by Morgott. We as tarnished openly defy and destroy Marikas golden order, so as fate would have it our goals align with Miquella, but we know the moment he needs someone dead, he doesnt hesitate to have Malenia kill Radahn (his brother!) on his behalf! And that he is likely using us to fulfill his goals!
I’m in the camp that he is ultimately a force for good. Despite his ability to compel loyalty he seems to have genuine and pure intentions, given his efforts to cure his sister and provide a home for those spurned by the Golden Order.
I think he’s gonna be a morally grey character, seeing as he’s always seeking purity, and if you have to get purity and flourishing of everything, surely you have to purge and kill a lot to get there and anyone who rejects your goal has to be swiftly crushed. Also if you “shrive clean the hearts of man” I think you couldn’t really call them human anymore because you forcefully remove greed and other bad elements which make them who they are.
@@godly_potatoe69xd19 forcing everyone into goodness sounds very morally grey to be honest
I personally think Miquella wants a more natural world like our own but one that allows all forms to continue existing. Look at the Haligtree - Almost all of the downtrodden are represented except for Those That Live In Death. I think that could be the result of PTSD from seeing his brother Godwyn's downfall. Also related to the influence of Radagon's indoctrination in the Golden Order fundamentalism. But ultimately Miquella wanted a more broad representation in the Lands Between.
The option to get a couple of new endings in the main thanks to the dlc including one were miquella ascents to godhood with us as elden lord would be awesome
i think the dlc ending is gonna depend on if were gonna help miquella or not
@@qqqqq9953I'd bet we'll get a special rune and a unique ending with Miquella, but if we choose not to help him we can do any of the other endings as usual.
What if you have already beaten the game. You are now Elden lord? Does that mean you will have to go into new game plus to get into the DLC?
@@jaybruce6974No, I just think you wouldn't be able to get a new elden lord ending unless you were in NG+.
Same. Although Miyazaki clearly stated there won't be any new alternative endings to the main game, so it's a shame.
Things that popped up in my mind while listening:
1. Jerren is a bloody finger and Okina helps in the Rahdan festival. Mohg has a great incentive to make the stars move for his dynasty aswell.
2. Ranni gives us very personal things related to Miquella which could point to the fact that the age of stars is Miquella's end goal for the tarnished in the base game aswell. Getting rid of the gods influence and possibly the scarlet rot from Malenia. Ranni abides so that she can get rid of the fingers and their influence over her and let the stars reign.
3. We can not rule out that Mohg is under Miquella's rule or being manipulated by him. Miquella uses a lot of blood for his metamorphosis. Mohg could have been seen as a failsafe to gain a lot of blood considering the mausoleum's location right under the battlefield where Malenia was sent to fight Rahdan. But the stars halted the process and his work in the Shadow Lands is not yet completed.
Guessing we will find Miquella under the guise of St. Trina in the expansion. A lot of colouring in the trailer was light purple
Incredible video backed up with in game evidence and some speculation that actually made sense. Insane work dude
You’re killing it here, as a huge From Lore enthusiast this is real quality!
Radahn also didnt want Sellia destroyed, since he was a student there. He learned gravity magic to stop the stars from dropping onto Sellia, and also to stop Astel from landing (also to ride leonard lol)
CANT WAIT for the mathimatically correct kick build im finna rock that for years
I hope they also add High Monk as an ash of war for kick weapons
Miyazaki saying we need to kill radahn to enter the dlc is almost proof that malenia fought him for the same reason, for miquella to achieve his goal in the land of shadow!
Messmer probably wasn't talking about marika when he mentioned his mother, but instead, the formless mother
Idk if someone has pointed out but while mohg is seemingly the representation of the devil (at least visually). I think its worth mentioning that messer seems to be a reference to Lucifer/samael.
Specifically i think he's the first born of radagon and marika,first to fall, first to question the golden order. From then on everything that was associated with him snakes, flame, etc was deemed as blasphemy. Potentially he was stripped of grace and was kept in the shadow to do his mothers bidding. Yes this ties into "the messmer is the hero" video, but i think that simple connection can add a lot of context as to who he truly is.
**Head cannon but melina gotta be messmers daughter or something. Not sure what it is, but surely it relates to melina being the glome eyed queen
This is definitely my new headcannon on why Radahn and Malenia clashed, and why Miquella didn't respond to Mohg's corruption. Very cool video man.
Would love to know your thoughts on Melina and Rannis involvement with Miquella, since they both seem to guide you from the start, and provide you items that are heavily suggested to be Miquellas.
I think their involvement could be just a 'u scratch my back, I scratch yours'
So my theory: Melania has never known defeat because her goal was not to kill rhadan but to end the shattering and bring the world to a state of rotten stagnation. We know rhadan must be defeated to enter the shadow so perhaps rotting him was a calculated move to stall anyone from following miquella. Maybe the cocoon was simply miquella's method of dreaming his way to the shadowlands (as st trina) for a yet unknown purpose. Melania awaits his *return* not rebirth i think she knows hes in the shadow land but not that he was kidnapped? Perhaps the whole plan was to buy time for the haligtree to bloom while miquella retrieved something from the shadow land (likely a perfected needle or the materials required to forge one).
You bring up a lot of interesting points, and I think you're mostly on base about a lot of what will likely happen in the story, but I have some other theories that may synergize with your own and explain a lot more (especially regarding Miquella's experiments with Castle Sol).
If what you posit about Radahn holding back not just the stars but the moon is true, and Miquella really is trying to start an eclipse to try and bring back the soul of Godwyn, then I believe Miquella may also be trying to access the Helphen Spiritworld to do so.
The area around Castle Sol is full of enemies who utilize the same ghostflame of the Helphen and Helphen's Steeple, as well as the upper part of the Castle just having countless spirit-like enemies.
As Vaati talked about in one of his previous ER videos (I forget which), he says that the Helphen existed before the Erdtree ever did, and now pairing it with this video I'm beginning to remember more and more, like how Marika removed the Rune Of Destined Death from the Elden Ring.
What if Destined Death was a part of the Helphen that was incorporated into the Ring when the Elden Beast was sent to the Lands Between? And when the Black Knives killed Godwyn in soul (and Ranni herself in body), they sent his soul into the spirit world? And the entire goal of Miquella is to bring Godwyn back so he can attain the abilities of unalloyed gold without having to make use of the land outside time in Farum Azula?
I think the Eclipse was his first plan to become a god, and it was before the shattering, it was the same night as the night of the black knives. Godwyn was meant to be slain and resurrected as Elden Lord, similar to Hora Loux becoming Godfrey. Miquella as Empyrean would be his consort and inherit the Elden Ring. I think Miquella was the only one who knew he was an empyrean which he kept secret, everyone else just thought he was cursed. I think Ranni was employed or coerced (prolly employed though) by Miquella to use her Carian Royalty ties to broker a deal with the eternal cities, this bond is shown through selia and ordina. I don't think she knew Miquella was an Empyrean, because the only reason I can think for her sabotaging the eclipse is if she thought SHE would become the vessel, and this could even be her tie to Melina. Perhaps it was Melina that influenced her to betray the plan. Perhaps it was even Rennala trying to force her to carry it out in hopes she would embrace becoming the new god, which would explain why she became so distraught and obsessed with rebirth when the plan goes awry and Ranni dies, if she thinks it was her words that made Ranni unalive herself. The Amber of the unborn was also not a gift, it was a reminder of Rannis failed ressurection, Radagon would have seen the night of the black knives as a betrayal from the Carians and wouldn't even have the slightest suspicion of Miquellas involvement. Radahn and Rykard knew though. I think that's where Ranni has alliances with the two, Radahn stalls the stars to keep Miquella from getting that power and Rykard hides the blasphemous claw and deathrune fragments it has on it. He's likely the one to carve the curse mark into Ranni's back. I think Radagon wouldve disowned the two and focused on his cursed children and expanding fundamenalism. Think marikas own words in the altus plateau about blind faith not being enough any more and alluding to fundamentalism. I think miquella then abandons the erdtree and grows his haligtree, and generates his following by preaching as st Trina, specifically to hide his intentions of overthrowing the erdtree from radagon. He preaches about the eclipse failing and his new plan to sew himself into the new tree to be reborn. Radagon learns of miquellas betrayal through either rykard, radahn or rennala, or just keen wits, and does the shattering. No more need for st Trina, miquella is already 10 steps ahead of radagon. He sews himself in the cocoon where he starts invading dreams to influence people. I believe he can do this because of his haligtree, where the bewitching branch comes from. It's possible here he meets Melina and gives her torrent, but maybe this union happens even before the eclipse, it would explain how he has always possessed some arcane knowledge. I believe he poses as the formless mother to tell mohg to steal his cocoon and place it below caelid so it can soak up the blood from melanias and radahns battle, and then our battle with radahn. It doesn't matter if melania wins or loses, radahn will be taken down by us anyway, and I think miquella counts on that. I think he needs us to get the great runes to be able to challenge morgott and in the dlc we will see him resurrected and he will instantly banish us to the shadows so he can finish growing his haligtree. To what ends? prolly mass sacrifice a la Berzerk or fullmetal alchemist idk. Jack is not a Mimic led me to this theory, you should watch his vids.
ruclips.net/video/TsekTzszrDQ/видео.html&ab_channel=JackisaMimic
Nah
Incredible video. I love the branching out into lore videos and collaborating with Smough. You're putting in awesome work and it's really showing
Glad you enjoy it! Messmer next and ties back into all of this!
@@syrobe I'm so excited to see what you get up to when the dlc is out and you have new builds to make and more lore to dive into
I didnt even need the leaks or their possible implications. Those item descriptions you read at the start of the video already make me really reconsider Miquella.
i'm so happy that you were able to discuss with smoughtown! i think he's an absolutely excellent lore content creator on the platform! also i really like your theory on miquella needing radahn to release his hold on the stars. in fact earlier in the video i was thinking "don't you have to defeat radahn to enter the DLC as well?". either way a lot of fascinating points that i think are extremely interesting and could fit into the puzzle well! i can't wait to hear more of your theories and speculations thank you for your excellent and hard work.
Genuinely some AMAZING material! Amazing vid and can’t wait for more! 🤘🏽
Mohg must be more involved than we think. He comes from Miquellas blood, so I'm now under the assumption he was in the Land of Shadow. Likely working with Messmer. Messmer's spear has similar red jewels to Mohg's robes. Maybe Messmer is a third brother to Mohg and Morgott. Three forgotten, hidden brothers. (Except not morgott completely, due to his unwavering loyalty to Marika)
PLEASE keep making these videos bro your lore videos are so interesting
So I hear theory that she left by his orders to restore movement of the stars and the whole eclipse idea from Castle Sol. But what is never been established why she went or when, but my thoughts is how do the eclipse and the Haligtree ideas match up when we also know someone else stood to gain and also needed the stars to resume their movements. ✌🏼. The 3rd reason she would have left is he was already gone, and she went to find him. It’s also plausible that Ranni wanted the best chance of defeating Radhan without challenging him herself. If the goals align it doesn’t make one less possible.
I've had this theory for a while that Miquella was too similar to Griffith from Berserk to not be a Villian. The fact that Caelid was sacrificed so his Fates could move for his Eclipse, that Malenia's title is Miquella's blade which is what Griffith would call Guts and Casca ("his weapons") and that Miquella can make people love him and obey him in a terrifying way which is 1 to 1 what Griffith does, especially after his ascension to God Hand, it's just all too similar to be anything but the intention behind Miquella.
Also if you add on that Miyazaki said that the DLC won't effect any of the endings of the main game, I think that Miquella will be the final Boss of the DLC, that you have to fight after he achieves his Godhood.
I agree but I also feel like miquella has influences of the moonlight child from berserk so maybe no quite as evil but as we know Griffith and the moonlight child are of one vessel so maybe st trina is like a femto alter ego
BOY!!!!!!
Redahn was protecting the world from outer threats
From outer gods
Estel is a threat from the stars
As well as star beasts at various stages of maturity
Redahn was protecting Selia
So there was a reason he was in Caelid
would love a new video going over the canon lore with the DLC and comparing it to this video, now that it's fully out
soon!
SO glad to see another lore video dude! This was awesome and I think you're spot on with all of it. Totally agree that the only reason we have to kill Radahn to access the DLC is for lore consistency reasons and your theory is super compelling!
What messes with my head is thinking about WHEN Miquella's "guidance/persuasion" over us for this task of his really began... after all, we get Torrent and the summoning bell within like 10 minutes of starting the game and both of these are gifts FROM Miquella!! Has he been puppeteering/"helping" us from the start? Is he why our initial maiden is dead... awful convenient his delivery girl Melina can also be our rune leveling maiden. Damn I love these prerelease speculation times! Keep 'em coming my friend you're crushing these! :)
Oh and I'm curious who you think the opposing forces are that are warring in the Land of Shadows!? I'm thinking Crucible worshipers (the knight riding by the Wicker Man in a DLC image has a candle stick lookin motif on his horse that could match the weapons of the crucible priests we see in the trailer) vs ??? lol... maybe Messmer's gang or some new players we won't know til release... these games are art bro god dayum haha. Much love Syrobe!
0:15 nah bro I believe you 100% I'm still going to watch the video anyway ❤
In the DLC trailer somebody says 'I will not be far. May we meet again'. Based on that i ask myself who that could be. Melina usually burns with the erdtree and most quest NPCs wont survive their encounter with us. Miyazaki now told us Radahn has to be defeated as well and it raises questions. Ranni and Malenia were the characters who wanted to get rid of him and both have a strong connection to Miquella. Also there was a 'leak' with controlers for the DLC using their motives. Maybe this actually had a deeper meaning and based on our decisions in the main game Ranni or Malenia could be searching for Miquella in the DLC as well?
It’s probably Miquella
You people slept on that Bewitching Branch.
i remember a youtuber who once referred to Miquella as a "soft dictator" due to his troops in elphael or however you write it in the base game, his soldier wears some sort of helmet that mind-control them
Glad to see a new channel digging into the deep lore, even if I got shown it a month late!
I'm right there with you on Miqy thinking he needs the fate of the stars to guide his ascendancy. I'm less sure it was about his metamorphosis, or at least ONLY about that. As mentioned, Miq watered the Haligtree with his own blood, but it failed to grow into maturity. This lines up with the Sacramental Bud description which says is an immature bud containing young blood. The point is that the nature of the blood seems to be absorbed into the tree it waters. For a demigod cursed with eternal youth, it makes sense the tree is also taking on that curse.
Miq needs to somehow break that curse on himself before his tree can fulfill its purpose of supplanting the Erdtree and eradicating impurities like death blight, frenzy, and rot. He plans to inject unalloyed gold into the mature tree with a staff-sized needle, as depicted all over Elphael as a hooded figure stabbing a sharp nail down while surrounded by undead. This is also reminiscent of a common myth that driving a copper nail into a fruit tree staves off disease and stimulates fruit production.
All of the characters are using you, it would not be surprising if Miquella was too. Like Margit says, "Emboldened by the flame of ambition." Ambition has been the downfall of all of them.
I don't think we'll get to know Miquella's intent until we play through the DLC, but I definitely think that Malenia's fight against Radahn was out of some kind of order or command by Miquella. I mean, we know from the DLC announcement that you have to defeat Radahn and Mogh to start the dlc... Why would that be? Well, Miquella's fate is "in the stars", which were being held back by Radahn. Perhaps Radahn's stalling of the starfall is why Miquella's plans were on pause until the DLC?
Let Me Solo Her is gonna be a little confused on this. “Like you sure? You know what I did to your sister right?”
My theory is that Messmer is basically darkeater Midr.
Based theory
My theory was a nameless king situation, child of ruler figure forgotten/banished for siding with blasphemy
Miyazaki’s gonna need another year to change the lore since you just called it before it even released
@@VergilsLastNamewell NK wasn't really banished. He left to be with dragons. Gwyn was angry and got all traces of his son removed from history
@mrself5824 lol. He isnt GRR Martin. I believe winds is taking so long because the show WAS the correct book ending and people hated it so much he had to rewrite the thing from scratch.
Bro was this a straight up clairvoyant prediction or are you the real Elden Lord?
I’m trippin rn this is crazy.
Oh , so that why Messmer is actually Gold Mask. Really good video
He's using ME!? But wait aren't I just using HIM as an excuse to focus my psychopathic rage on "bad guys" for the "greater good"!?!? - Me, Elden Lord, post- therapist
Great job! I totally agree with you. I never bought into the idea that Miquella has entirely good intentions, regardless of him looking similar to the Berserk character, Griffith, there’s too much evidence that supports his manipulative and fearsome power.
27:58 Miquella is going to the Shadow Lands because it says, “where the goddess, Marika, first step foot.” And it’s possibly where she ascended, so it makes sense that the key to Miquella’s ascension would be there. And he’s going to use us to remove the one standing in his way, which is Messmer, so maybe HE is actually the hero, preventing Miquella’s ill intent.
It’s also curious how it seems that Miquella was not able “to compel such affection” from Rennala and Radagon’s children. If he could, then Radahn would have released his grip on the stars.
Messmer has the red hair, but judging by his quote, Marika is his mother. So it will be interesting to see whether he has any loyalty to Miquella.
Pure and radiant. He weilds love to shrive clean the hearts of men...
Amazing video! it always felt to me that Millennia was just a crazy bitch to release the scarlet rot out of pure ego, - just to win the fight. It seemed like there must've been a greater plan and a greater good she believed in, to do something that would cause that much damage to the world
When Messmer says mother it is the snake in the frame, also on the briar armor set there is a snake headed, humanoid (visible with free camera), if the snake is the gloam eyed queen and projects as Melena in the Lands Between, actually the gloam eyed queen chose you and not Marika so he is not necessarily child of Marika. Also GEQ + Placidusax = all the features of Messmer and the theory regarding Placidusax's God that left him. The sigils are fire (dragon) and snake (GEQ)
I love the most recent vidoes I've watched. Definitely a new follower
Yes! This has been my theory all along, that Miquella is using us and we're helpless to resist. He is known for having "the wisdom and allure of a god", being bewitching and ensnaring others to his cause. His weapon is love and no other weapon is more effective. Also. remember how you get Torrent from Renna/Ranni and them saying their former master wants you to have him? Who is riding Torrent on the Shadow of the Erdtree art Fromsoft released a while back? Miquella is masterminding this whole thing.
I have a seperate theory that through this expansion our Tarnished character may figure out that Miquella is pulling our strings and we might have to decide to take them down or not
Man, I'm so immersed. So many questions still yet to be answered.
Imagine Miquella is the main villain of the whole Elden Ring story who rewrote history using his power in order to show himself as a good guy
I believe Miquella and Messmer are one in the same or two halves of a whole
An argument to be made is that Mohg could also be apart of his plan. With Miquella watering the Haligtree with his blood, you can draw a connection to the formless mother, even more so now that he has divested himself of his flesh.
Is it just me or does it look like the divine towers may be veiling this land it just seems a little odd that they are all in a circle and we are unable to go anywhere in the circle and thier is a very large cloud on the map at the center of the circle. Its also very close to the erdtree and deeproot deapths and would explain why we see a different tree in the dlc i therorize that the tree in the dlc is actually the great tree itself also in the dlc trailer in many places you can see roots of the great tree coming up through the ground and out the side of mountains and ridges. This would go along with how the erdtrees obscured the location in the dlc its close enough to the erdtree to obscure it while also being close enough that if my theory is correct then the old great tree would fit in the lands of the dlc
I believe until proven otherwise that messmer is the child of marika and she places him in watch over the lands of shadow, after similar to marika herself the gloam eyed queen is trapped within the crucible/great tree. Unless messmer is really the child of the gloam eyed queen and radagon and he is referring to her and we have really been led by her the entire story so far; achieving her desires, burning the erdtree, bringing back destined death, defeating those that would be her opposition and eventually we will be granting her freedom from within the crucible tree.
How are the children of Radagan and Marika Demi gods when they are both the same person. That would make them full blooded gods.
Thats why they are empyrians
Makes perfect sense that I as a Tarnished would become the Blade of Miquella. Because while I've seen his hands many times, I have never known... THE FEET!
Miquella is almost certainly based on Griffith who themselves is based on Lucifer. A beautiful, captivating, androgynous being of near perfection who can command both fear in his enemies and awe in his allies. Griffith sacrificed all his allies, friends, and loved ones to ascend into godhood during an eclipse... a shadow if you will. with the DLC taking place in a land of shadow where the light of the erdtree is eclipsed he could be preparing a great sacrifice to shed his curse and ascend fully. Miquella is also mentioned in almost every piece of equipment that pertains to an eclipse. I don't think this is coincidence. While Messmer may be an antagonist I don't think he is the villain, I think miquella is the exact opposite, he aids us but is the villain as he plans to use us for his own ends. Should they succeed it could imply a new order where freewill is not just limited like the current golden order but entirely removed as Miquella can command respect a love to a degree where others are willing to end their lives for him. He is not good, he is the ultimate authority and one that can rival even the outer gods. maybe his ultimate goal is to ascend to the status of an outer god like girffith becoming a godhand in berserk.
That is what I thought too
I mean Miquella is described as kind in the trailer and is this angelic "Griffith-like = red flag" figure hinted at in the main game. But IDK it's a From game, something sinister is about to happen. It's also confirmed there won't be a new ending for the main game. So maybe Miquella will be the final DLC boss and everything stays the same for the main game or someone was sockpuppeting him.
The fact that he is childlike lets us dismiss him as a threat early of course as well as he's supposedly shrivelled up in a cocoon abducted by a monster.
Then Malenia also attacks us on sight for no reason. And we finish her job of killing Radahn a prerequisite of starting the DLC in fact.
Chasing miquellas butterflies gets you killed when the cliff breaks at the chapel of anticipation if you kill the grafted scion.
it makes a lot of sense that miquella is not on our side, because we killed his sister, the person he was trying to save. Well, maybe the DLC is set up before that, or he never knows it was us.... I really cant get that "Terrifying" part from the DLC, got to be some twist to Miquella, or maybe the person talking was a bad guy and he fears the good guy...
Haha ranni needed her fingers to fall from the sky
This is how her fingers are damaged when you see them
From the fall one redahn is dead
It's not just a meteor
It's the fingers falling from the stars
beautifully put, congrats man
Thanks for listening
I think there’s significance to Miquella gesturing to the tree in the land of shadow. Just as Miquella established the haligtree to create basically another erdtree, he might be trying to use this tree in a similar fashion. To be housed in this tree in the way that Marika is housed in the erdtree. As though that would play a part in his assent to godhood. Just thoughts. Also “Shadow”, “Umbra”, “Eclipse” . . . I think there is some significance in Miquella “Eclipsing” the erdtree.
13:04 oh boy, the things he wanted to achieve
Now, I am hoping that we will get at least two different DLC endings, based on whether Malenia is still alive by the time Miquella finally attains his full godhood. If Miquella ultimately finds that Malenia has been killed by the Tarnished, Miquella ends up turning hostile toward the Tarnished, becoming the "secret boss" of the DLC.
That makes sense. I myself believe we'll get a seventh possible ending for Elden Ring that involves Miquella.
Miquella is definitely going to pull some Griffith shit
Dope vid, thanks for sharing!
I really hope there is a new ending for both Messmer and Miquella, as well as Malenia where she breaks from Miquella's control.
I'd love for Messmer to be the empyrean that can't be bewitched, that sees through Miquella. Further, I strongly believe that Miquella's affliction extends beyond his boyish stature and inability to defend himself. The difference between intelligence and wisdom is experience and personal growth. Miquella's entire life has been a pursuit to fix problems, yet none have been truly rectified. Perhaps he can't learn from failure, like a child. Intelligent, but unable to properly wield it.
Not sure any of that has any real grounds for belief. But here's to theorizing and obsessing over a 3 minute trailer two years after a game's initial release. What a hell of a story.
Why saint Trina want us to kill miquela ? "Don't let this poor thing become a god. Divinity is a prison for him."
the ultimate berserk reference. but i see it as miquella shadowing marika by controlling someone to kill the demigods like marika did against godwyn
If there’s no true reason to why melania fought rahdan, mohg lives right under rahdan so going to Caelid, she probably felt rahdan was hiding miqella somewhere.
Your first lore video was excellent dude. Thats why i came to check this out after. Thats a lie. I watched the first one and finished clearing out all the bosses in Mt.Gilmore, lol. Still on my 1st playthrough. I got it in Jan, started in Feb, took a brake and got back on after i found out where the DLC takes place in the story. Im just taking my time with it, having fun, soaking up all the lore and exploring every inch i see.
Great video, very glad you decided to do lore videos as well!
Love the callbacks to Smough’s videos, they’re absolutely fantastic.
Miquella is Ranni the witch.
Both go into a “slumber”
Both are protected by three lone wolves.
Knight Loretta protects Ranni at Caria manor. Loretta also protects the haligtree.
Both characters are separated from their body in spirit.
Both characters have alternate identities.
Both characters are connected to the moon.
Both Ranni and Miquella want an “age of dark” and to block out the sun.
Ranni has a shadow (Blaiid) and Miquella goes to the land of shadows.
Both characters are manipulating NPCs to do their bidding.
Miquella is shown with three wolves in several statues. Ranni is protected by three wolves at her tower and she is also the person who gives you the lone wolf summons.
As long as miquella gives us some cool items, I think being used is a fair trade🥂
This was dope. I'm 100% on board with this theory! I think the end of the dlc will have us fight Mickey in his God form as a bonus bss or actual final boss after Messmer. Or He needs to inhabit the tarnished body to ascend, thereby sacrificing the player for "the greater good" and mickey's goals
Loved this. I've been having the same thoughts as well and I really liked all your points.
One thing that has been on my mind in terms of fate is why Miquella is affected by it at all. The game specifically states that Carians are the ones whose fate is guided by stars. My theory is based the words of the Miriel the Turtle Pope. When Radagon married Renala, Miriel states that the fate of Caria and the Golden Order become conjoined. Many of us take this as a simple saying, but we should take it as Radagon actually, literally grafting the Golden Order onto the stars. When he leaves Renala, Radahn must have already halted the stars, or the Golden Order's fate would have possibly changed overnight.
Gowry states that none of the Demigods could stave off the effects of the Erdtree when it flourished. Indicating a metaphysical phenomenon as well as all of them being born before or close to the beginning of this era. Radhan did proudly fight under Godfrey after all. Ranni and Miquella are forced to give up their Erdtree tainted bodies to break away from their fates, fates specifically under the frozen Golden Order.
Finally we have to ask whether Sellia was ever in any danger considering they decided to change the landscape of part of Limgrave significantly but Sellia; the place Radhan is stated as protecting as part of the Starscourge is unchanged. Not even a single new enemy. "Planetary movement" could explain it. We still get day/night but being surrounded by water and with the power of Radhan I doubt it. I believe someone lied to him, and someone really close and perhaps was loyal to.
“Shrive clean the hearts of men” “nothing more terrifying” just this sentence alone should ring some alarm bells about Miquella. He may be loved by many, and may appear saintly, the first sentence of the trailer is hinting at manipulation… Mesmer may be the “poster” big bad, but I reckon Miquella is secretly the one behind the curtain…
Another great video man, im really excited to see what the reasons are but I truthfully believe this is the most sensible theory.
maybe miq’s flaw is love/ obsession he seems to be the one of all demi gods to be on the other side of extremist decisions from his family i think we might be a tragic hero’s last line of defense against reality
I think Ranni's quest tells use some other important details.
We can ascend the throne as elden lord without killing Rahdan because it's still the Golden order just slightly modified, Marika/elden beast are still the ruling god.
In order to bring about a new age with a new god and elden lord seperate from the golden order like Ranni wants she needed fate to not be stagnant but she also had to separate herself from the Golden order which included he body.
Just as Ranni had to enact the night of black knives to separate her soul from her Golden order body; I think Miquella realized he had to do the same to create his own order. I think he intentionally manipulated Mogh into warping his body to "divest himself of his flesh, lineage, and the Golden order" so he could become a god of a new age.
I think it's clear that everyone at the Hailgtree knows Miquella is gone but is promised to return meaning his absence was planned to some extent.
14:08 you seem to forget that Radahn hold the stars sealed, tabt fact means that all destinies halted. So in order for Miquella to ascend God hood as he was destined, STARS MUST BE IN MOVEMENT so the wheels of destiny to start roll again for all including Miquella, Ranni and everyone. Why when comes to Radahn seem to forget about it?
4:13 we know for a fact that every Empyryan has a shadow, Ranni had her wolf, the question is WHERE IS THE SHADOW OF MIQUELLA AND MILENIA?
Oh shit what if ( way out there theory)
What if Miqs goal is to have an eclipse and fuse his spirit into godwyna body. His body would stretch around all of the lands and he could sprout his bewitching branches all over the world and he could fully control everyone all at once. 😮😅
It was revealed that you have to defeat Radahn and Mogue in order to access the new area, so the idea that the stars or eclipse are important to the process makes the most sense.
What about this: Miquella's plan needed more blood for a new Erdtree so he bewithched Mough to kidnap him and compelled him to brim the cocoon insane amounts of blood. All the dynasty speech is derivatives about love from Mough, and includes Albinaurics (same as Halightree), and is a funnel from blood (an ingredient for ascention) all that can be aplied to Miquella's plan instead of Mough. Mogh is not depicted as someone who will lead, but he will bring a new era, pretty much all that the formation of a new Erdtree means. I don't recall that Miquella's body in the coccoon is a corpse, but his "body", so it still can be a plan in progress.
Miquella's ability to compell people to die for him is a pretty terrifing thing, and people tend to go over the fact that he can be a perpretator insted of a victim, pulling the strings from behind the veil
Yessssssss OMG yessss the lore legend and the build God working together yesssssss I am happy you both shared lore I am super happy
more to come!
My theory is it’s something about having a tree that will make him ascend, The location and the tree is a fixer upper and the only obstacle is Messmer and I think Messmer is deemed a “hero” by Miyazaki because he upholds the Golden Order even though he’s affliction like Morgott will fight tooth and nail even though he’s an outcast… It’s a place where the ones who are hated by the golden order can seek refuge since his body was taken prematurely plus his age wouldn’t rival his mother/father Marika and Radagon… I think Miquella isn’t necessarily a bad guy like some theory but isn’t a good guy deemed by those because his will or godhood is or will be a rivalry to the greater will…
I don’t think he is a villain, but he’d be a very intressting one if he used his powers to their fullest, I can see the potential of him being fearsome in the most literal sense. Imagine Malenia’s blossoming, just not spreading rot, but flooding entire battlefields with enchanted pink butterflies and flowers, cause a murderous dancing plague and turn the whole place into some glorious flower field with mangled corpses everywhere and a lingering mesmerizing mist
Miquella is basically just Griffith using his charisma and charm to get people to follow him and help him achieve his goals/ dreams
Now I can’t stop seeing Miquella as Elden rings evil charismatic batman.
Nice video I really enjoyed watching it
Great theory, good evidence for it, too. If you're right I feel like there's a good chance that Miquella ends up being either the Final Boss or the Super Boss of the DLC, as there will have to be a reason why him becoming a god doesn't affect the ending of the game.
I was thinking close to the same thing! I have this theory that at the very end of the DLC, Miquella is going to pull something, and we have to team up with Messmer to fight him! A bit more tin-foil hat point could be that Miquella NEEDS Messmer out of the way as well! Miquella's story is NOT as bright as some think it is! I bet we will see how FAR Miquella is willing to go to become a FULL God! Would it be so BADASS to fight along side a Demi-God, Messmer, to battle a God who could pull who-knows-what! Miquella could have a Deathblight Vassal Beast of all we know! If Miquella was willing to have his half-brother out-right KILLED, to go FULL villain, his twin-sister out of the way too, since Miquella sees a more powerful "Blade" he can try to control! MAN, the DLC is going to be INSANE!
@@marystone860That would be cool, I hope you're right.
I mean from what we can tell, Miquella’s basically “The Abundance” from Star Rail.
I don’t think I’d call him evil. If anything the only person more morally good in terms of their end goals would be Rani, assuming you value freedom over prosperity.
If you value evolution and prosperity though… Miquella seems to be the man.
Except Miquella's body isn't dead. He's "divested" from it in other words his soul is kind of like astral projection which why he doesn't have his former "glory". His body looks withered because his metamorphosis was interrupted. Kind of like if you open a cocoon too early the proto butterfly inside will look rather.... unhealthy. He can't return to his body though thanks to the bloody jerk that interrupted it. I the does he WILL die for certain.
Hearing you talk about miquella made me realize that if he was giving his blood the hailgtree then he mustve needed more blood since it seems like he agreed to be mohg’s consort and Mohg is the lord of blood. Mohg is feeding Miquella in exchange for helping him. So he could be continuing to grow the hailgtree or he is planning to the hailgtree on a greater scale and killing mohg I think we kinda messed up his plans but not completely tho
I have so much on miquella being the villain of this story that I am very close to just dump everything here.
But instead I'll say a small thing that you "missed"
Miquella found a amber starlight. A starlight that rules the destiny of the Gods just like normal starlight governs the destiny of men.
If Ranni star is stagnated and her destiny cannot be attain, so is Miquella star. He needed Radahn killed and sent Malenia to kill Radahn.
This probably would just be like the default Elden Lord ending - solving nothing but to resume the decay process of the world...
But perhaps Radahn's hold on the stars had to be released for a potential eclipse, so that Miquella would be able to return? Surely if Miquella knew his relatives so well and knew people loved him jealously, he would know Mohg's nature as well. So perhaps he had knew that Mohg, or SOMEONE would make an attempt to interrupt his metamorphosis for their own plans, which would end up killing him. So with that in mind he knew his only way back was for the stars to move, and an eclipse to come for the possibility of returning.
However the concern is that after that happens, Malenia is in a worse state than before (or we killed her). Hence, newly re-emerged Miquella is crushed and his own demigod trait reaches its point of corruption. Some sort of justice retribution type thing in which he would be punishing wrongdoers all while knowing who does wrong, and what wrongs they did. Putting a target on the Tarnished back, as well as other demigods. That's just some random fantasy I came up with that doesn't really fit the Souls style, but the point is Miquella reaches his goal, "But at what cost?"
No idea what Messmer would have to do with all of that or what role he might play, besides being some kind of temptor to either Miquella, or us. The significance of a serpent biblically is that of a temptor that causes another to fall out of grace, while also being cursed to slither. (No idea what snakes did before) So Messmer's blasphemy and temptations caused damage to the world, demigods, outer beings, and himself. So maybe he dies early and then haunts us for the rest of the DLC or something. I dunno.