Gun Gripes Episode 81: The Last Lead Smelter in the US
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2013
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Eric and Barry discuss their thoughts and feelings about the last lead smelter in the US closing.
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It's really bothersome that all of these regulations are forcing the U.S. to outsource for EVERYTHING... is that not their sole purpose? The economy is going down Because of the government...
I've worked with Lead the past 7 yrs.
This doesn't only effect the ammunition industry, huge amounts of lead are used in car and other smaller batteries that power everything we do along with smaller amounts that are used in at least 10 things for every letter of the alphabet. It has caused a lot of havoc in various industries across the country and cost them millions and of course in turn us. Companies can use a recycled lead but still for many things it can't be used and it has a lower rating and cheaper price. Now it has to be shipped in, which you pay for by pound, which you know is insane if you have ever worked with lead you know how dense it is and it is a hazardous material.
I have been binge watching the old Gripe videos. This being 81, there are only 3 more Videos with Barry😔 Chad is cool but Barry was one of the most amazing people to watch in RUclips history so forth and so on!
This lead smelter takes ore and smelts it into new lead. Companies like Sierra Bullets use 80-90% recycled lead from a recycler that's semi-local to them. It shouldn't be a big deal as far as ammo production goes. I do agree on your points about regulating a business out of business.
Rest in peace, Barry. You were a great man.
The EPA is slowly gaining control of every thing… right under our noses.
You guys have no idea how complicated this issue is. The land that the lead smelter was on is EXTREMELY polluted. There are other options for ammunition besides lead. The Clean Air Act has been in place for DECADES, and the plant has had plenty on time to upgrade to meet new regulations. There is a lead reclaiming plant local to where I live and they are in no danger of shutting down. They did this to themselves.
Bigmanbam44 Way to bring the intelligence, chief.
Will_Powell So are you going to pay more ammo for Steel Based or Copper Based? I don't want to buy Steel or other bullet replacements that are more expensive than Lead thank you very much.
KnightKiller1000 I would prefer to pay less for ammunition, but to blame anyone but the people in charge of the plant is ridiculous. The last amendment to the Clean Air Act was in 1990. 23 years is more than enough time to get up to regulation.
The main cause or high ammunition prices right now is demand and how people are price gouging. There are people that go to the local Walmart to buy .22LR for $20/box just to sell it for $90/box.
Herculaneum is in my neck of the woods! There's been a lot of controversy for years about that plant. Most of it had to do with lead contamination in the local area. There was quite a bit of it. They couldn't afford the cleanup.
I'll miss you Barry. Rest in Peace.
Aloha. Lead does not just come out of the ground in big bricks ready to melt into bullets and roof flashings. Most Gold & Silver mining operations deal with significant amounts of lead in the ore, much larger amounts than the gold & silver being sought. I don't see the EPA shutting down gold & silver mining operations over the lead involved, so this BS with the dedicated lead smelters is purely hypocritical.
So now that we don't smelt lead domestically what are we going to do with all this waste lead? Whatever gets done, I doubt it will be an environmental improvement over shipping it to a dedicated smelter.
You guys should put on a traveling freak show/seminar.
You could call it "Innovative Conspiracy Alarmism 101".
I have talked about this with many people and nobody seems too concerned. They typically say the lead will come from recycling or imported and that it shouldn't effect our ammo at all.
The American Revolutionary war was sparked largely as a result of the British attempting to regulate and restrict the possession of powder and lead shot. History has a tendency to repeat itself.
If we are headed to another civil war against pro-gun and anti-gun............ I wonder who would win?
Josh Olsen Sadly it's not so simple. The anti-gun crowd, is actually very pro gun. They just want the guns to all be in the hands of their masters and their masters minions.
Then when they close a US plant does that eliminate demand. Does it reduce worldwide pollution? How if the lead production is simply relocated to companies operating in Countries with no environmental restrictions. Maybe they should have used the stimulus money they wasted on helping our industries stay in business and provide better environmental protection.
Its going to all move to China, and its gonna be much more dirty. The EPA and everyone else knows this. There's a government agency to regulate anything they deem as a pesky problem.
Josh Myers thats the hypocrisy of it....the environmentalists care so much about the earth...they're going to make sure that Americans go out of work and that the operation is sent to China where they have almost no regulations whatsoever and that environment will get polluted...but thats okay with them, they don't give a shit about the chinese.
My girlfriend in college went to China and essentially didn't come back. It is definitely the worst country in the world. Id much rather live in Iran or Cambodia. They have a 100% all encompassing indoctrination into slavery. Chinese highschool students live at the high school and class is 6am - 10pm, and the lock all the doors. Also, imagine high school seniors that have been forbidden to get any meaningful sex education... they are children with adult bodies, totally immature.
Good information
Thanks for sharing
This is so cool you guys made a video about this!!! I am from Herculaneum born and raised, have (had) tons of family and friends who worked there and my father grew up right across the street from the smelter. They are now turning it into a port on the Mississippi.
There are several VERY important things to consider that you did not bring up in your video:
1) We already rely on a vast amount of foreign lead (especially from Canada)- Doe Run only produced about 10% of the world's primary lead.
2) If any industry is hurt by this, it will be those that produce large batteries for vehicles etc- bullets compose less than 10% of America's demand for lead- the majority is used for car batteries. The vast majority of lead in the US is from recycled lead anyway, including bullets. It is unlikely that this will have any effect on cost, and it is certainly ridiculous to think that this closure is to detriment bullet manufacturers- it would be far more hurtful to companies producing car batteries.
I should add that I agree that its a TERRIBLE idea to shut down this smelter, though.
Good thoughts....
Bullets can be cast from old wheel weights...Be sure to stockup if ou plan on casting bullets
MOST garages will give them away if you are a customer.
Just another American industry getting ruined by "regulation"...
Look up the "air quality" of China and it's industrial cities.
Pollution throught the ROOF..So much for the "environment".
Too bad for America.
BillMcGirr
Wheel weights are being replaced with other materials. Shipping ballast is another option.
BillMcGirr It has become increasingly difficult to obtain wheel weights from auto shops. Most have been picked clean. Also, they are slowly working lead out of this use, opting for steel and zinc wheel weights, so be cautious if you get any. Zinc will make a nasty mess and will ultimately ruin the entire batch of lead it melts into.
BillMcGirr I know your numbers are right about China. I just looked out the window last time I was in China and that was 8 yrs ago, smog everywhere in some areas. Tried to run 5 miles there but had to walk the last mile in the northern part of Beijing, bc I simply couldn't breathe while there, but back home or outside the cities, in the Badaling wall area, I could run it fine, as form wasn't the problem. The WTA had to convince the players to show up and play tennis for millions some years ago, bc the players complained about not being able to breathe during matches in the open stadium.
Dumb question, but can't people also extract the lead from old car batteries as well? (I found one YT video on how to but it was long and said dont do this at home)
I live about 2 miles away from Doe Run .I assure you they arent closeing because they want to.For every new EPA compliance they would meet two more would come along.If the government doesnt want you in business ,you will not be in business ...
I never realized that you guys were near or in Jonesboro GA. As a firearms enthusiast, as well as a regular watcher of Iraqveteran888 on youtube, I am happy to discover that you guys are only a 25 minute ride from my primary residence in Georgia. I look forward to visiting your gun shop in the near future and keep up the informative gun vids on youtube.Good work Barry and Eric!
As a Missourian, this made me really sad when I first heard about it.
I live here in Missouri down in the southern part of the state the doe run lead mines and smelter are one of the biggest employers in that part of the state, shutting them down is really going to hurt those areas because there isn't a who lot of jobs down there, besides the lead mines and recycling and smelting. just more government action losing more jobs for the people.
RobM93784 Yeah because the republicans are so much better right? what a crock of shit, perhaps when you stop blaming obama for everything and realize they are all on the same team you will wake the fuck up.
RobM93784 can assure you it wasn't the people in this state that voted for him, but then again I don't think anyone watching this video voted for him. can't wait to see how he's going to find jobs for people in the lead and coal industry. LOL
RobM93784 It's about dependency. They're killing multiple birds with one stone. Now these people have to get food stamps, unemployment and need to sign up for Obamacare to get healthcare that they had at first.
Brian Lewis How did you possibly pull republicans out of RobM93784 comment?
R.I.P Barry
T.T
Thanks for the new vid, you guys are awesome!
im glad i started reloading when i did, its nice not needing to depend 100% on gun shops. I get my lead from wheel weights which so far has been a plentiful source.. Good video guys
I would be interested to see the firearms industry as a whole take a stand against the government. Those with contracts should fulfill them and then cut them off. Do not sell the Gov't any guns or ammo, keep everything for the civilians. Would they then make some laws to force the sale of such items to the Gov't or would they simply force them to close down?
we need civilian only ammo companies and firearms companies that make firearms for civilians and not focus on g-ment contracts
Bullet prices could conceivably lower instead of rise. Foreign trade works for everything else, look at walmart prices. I hate they closed but I really think it'll be a very minor effect on ammo prices. I highly doubt every company used doe run.
A year later we've made great leaps on this front. A federal court ruled the EPA cannot regulate the content of projectiles. And bullet prices are about 50% lower a year later since my comment. They cannot stop the gun culture from spreading.
CDubs HasIt Too bad it takes years to repeal unconstitutional and treasonous laws. At this rate I will be 60 before current illegal legislation is off the books. The bigger problem is that they keep writing them every 3 months. Legislative system is straight from a 3rd world banana republic. What a corrupt system of disgrace.
Thank you for a nice videos! You are doing a good job educating people!
Episode 81! Congrats guys keep up the good work!
99% of lead for ammo is recycled from car batteries. When are we going to run out of car batteries? The smelter that closed has a recycling facility close by and going strong. The ammo manufacturers have said this won't effect them that much. Only so much as increased demand for recycled lead might slightly increase the price. I think a compromise should have been reached, but I really don't see this as a gun grab. Please don't whip everyone into another ammo panic when ammo is finally sitting on shelves and prices are going down.
"They can put a probe on mars, but they cant close borders"... That line right there
Love your guys' gun gripes. Cheers from this guy in British Columbia!
Good points guys. Lead is actually one of the metals where 95%+ is recycled (from its' use in lead acid batteries) so it might not impact ammo production as much as if it was another, harder to recycle, material.
Was this smelter the exclusive supplier for all US manufactured ammo?
It didn't supply US ammo manufacturers at all. It pulled ore out of the ground and refined it. None of the ammo manufacturers bought lead from them.
Serious question? Hahaha, well yea, this is not an issue for ammunition in the U.S.
No. It helps though. But almost all manufactures get almost all of their led from recycled batteries and such. Read up on it, you'll understand more.
I live in the Herculaneum, MO area. The reality is, guys, that in a mile circumference of this factory all the kids tested in RECORD levels of lead and other heavy metal poisoning. I don't how you feel about your kids, but we kinda like ours.
We didn't want our kids being lead poisoned. So, we asked for help from the EPA, MDNR (Missouri Department of Natural Resources), and the Missouri Health Department. After they basically came in and gave us no help, we formed a CAG (Community Action Group), and demanded that we be taken seriously. That is how we got all the kids tested for lead poisoning. The results were very alarming. Learning disabilities were pretty common and several families sued and won a class action lawsuit because their kids have varying levels of ADHD.
The by-products of the production of lead are arsenic, nickel, cadmium, zinc, and sulfur dioxide. None of these heavy metals are healthy for humans to have in the bodies in any excess. As a Herculaneum High School student I ran the track when there was a yellow fog over our entire field. As you ran, it tasted like you were sucking on a book of matches. You want the lead smelter to keep going? Fine....you come live here. Half of the town has left. The lead smelter wouldn't give people fair prices for their homes so they could leave. Instead they put in new sidewalks and donated money to fix up the town to shut people up. They are trying to buy our love....it ain't working.
You see, they don't want to play by the rules. Yes, the EPA did raise the standards for lead emissions. It didn't matter. Doe Run never tried to pass any of the tests at any level that was set. They failed miserably every time they were tested...and they didn't care. They thought they were too big to fail. They are doing the same thing in La Oroya, Peru. In Peru, they have build schools for the mentally retarded children, (that they themselves created), of the employees who live and work at the factory. The Peruvian people of La Oroya have weird cancers and neurological conditions because of the contamination from the Doe Run Smelter.
I knew we need lead, but, you don't have to wipe out an entire American town to get it. They have the means to move the smelter to a more rural location....they refuse. Call Ira Rennart, the owner, (the richest guy in manufacturing in the U.S.) ...and let him know how you feel. He is one of the biggest scumbags on the planet. Don't hold your breath waiting to talk to him. He doesn't talk to anyone.
+sharon walker yeah,
sharon walker, I too lived in Herculaneum during the late 90's. I remember having to go inside due to thick black smoke spewing from the Doe Run smoke stack. You're correct that they failed emission test for years. The only way they were allowed to continue to operate was because a loophole stated that as long as they were trying to fix the problem they could continue to operate. So they made token improvements that never solve the problem. Luckily we lived up wind of Doe Run. But many of my friends have horrible health conditions because of the lead contamination.
While I love my second amendment rights as well as my other rights under the Constitution, I think that the shutting down of Doe Run was necessary in order to stop this horrible pollution and had to be done.
I think that the people who made this video failed to look into the facts and instead fell back onto a common Narrative of a secret group of people led by Obama wanting to take away your gun rights and shut down an old business. That narrative in this situation is false. The truth is that this business did more harm than good.
sharon walker im gonna call b.s. people blame everything on adhd. Its a crutch. Lets see some numbers backing your claim. I believe that this is a ban wagon movement from liberals.
sharon walker might want to check your paint if your house was built before 1978. More likely to be poisoned from lead by that route
Sierra and other ammo manufacturers have already made a statement about this. They state that they have never used lead from primary smelters, only from recycled lead smelters. Still not right to shut down the plant.
Love the videos guys!
Actually, the new 5.56 M855A1 EPR is now lead free. Soon 7.62 Nato will also be available in a lead free EPR version too. The military is clearly moving away from lead projectiles, for better or worse...
thats good. more lead for the rest of us.
Guys, this is the 2nd video y'all have put out incorrect information that could've been easily researched. please dont hurt the gun community by putting falsehoods out there
what was wrong? perhaps you could enlighten them and the other viewers?
smilesmcgee33 like the post right before yours says, NO AMMO COMPANY get's ANY LEAD from this lead company period.. So they are throwing out false information , trying to scare people.
smilesmcgee33 The Smelter that was closed down was not a supplier to any of the major ammo manufacturers. Infact, ammo manufacturing accounts for less than 10% of total US lead usage which by in large uses recycled lead since new lead is too soft for ammo.
gunsandpigs +1
kernisme hey thanks for providing accurate information. I suppose it's true that we all learn something new everyday, if we keep our ears and eyes open. I didn't know that the ammo industry uses most recycled lead. Since lead is used in a variety of items, but I figured the ammo industry used a bit more than 10%. Nonetheless, don't beat up Barry and Eric too hard...just kidding. These guys put out some good videos...my favorites are the gun tours and displaying of weapons with a quick table top review.
Hey guy's, I'm from Australia don't shoot or own any guns but to me It's sad to think a building/company from 1892 is closing because of the EPA. Please at least turn it into a museum of some kind, it would be a damn shame to see it torn down for nothing.
Love your videos as always. Can you guys do a video on your EDC/ what your every day carry items are?
You should do a video on best handguns for left handed shooters
I'm left eye dominant and have never once ran into an issue operating a handgun of any kind. Long guns are a different story but a country boy will survive
My wife told me the other day about this and I didn't believe she got the story right. How could they close the last lead smelter I said. Obama's not even that dumb. Well, I guess she was right on both counts.
It's not the last lead smelter. It's the last 'primary' (can turn raw ore into product) lead smelter in the United States. There are still 'secondary' smelters in the US that recycle lead.
I work for a huge lead smelter in Indiana and have two sister plants one in California and the other in new York we've basically set the standard for lead emissions due to the air system installed at our plant we will be here for a long time we are putting out like 90%less emissions than another company and are wrecking around 10million pounds of lead a week :)
Good video gentlemen as always.
Right when ammo prices were *barely dropping* we get this. Once Obama saw that his gun control push was a failure, he started going after ammunition. Be prepared for another shortage everyone.
Good thing my step dad has a smelting pot we could reload ammo from scratch almost i just need to think of average stuff i can recycle lead from
You'll be able to hold out much longer than the rest of us. Unfortunately all of the recyclable material was originally made in a smelter like the one that is being shut down. I wonder how much this will affect ammo prices.
evan graham possibly car batteries? also get in contact with a plumber, they might come across old lead pipes...
Thanks silentbob71420
I see copper ammo becoming that much more popular...and expensive :(
This is the first stage to dry up ammo. The government knows they cant take our guns away as its a protected right but they also know the constitution says nothing about the right to ammo! What good is a gun with no ammo. We need to push for ammo rights! We need to right to purchase readily available ammo.
mbh8280 Lead like nearly every commodity is traded in the international market. If you reduce the supply of a commodity the price will rise. With the closing of this lead plant the supply of lead (a fungible commodity) will decrease causing the price to rise. Who much will it rise only time will tell.
One thing for sure though, kiss good by to a few more manufacturing jobs.
I read into this a bit. This isn't black or white. There was problems with lead contamination, mainly with trucks coming from the mines. Sill it wasn't incredibly high and Doe Run was meeting standards before they lowered them again. The lead was a problem but I think we could have found other solutions than closing down the plant.
Thank you for making this video
Maybe the plant had to close, cause they could not modernize it more. Now if someone were able too, build a smelter that exceeds the EPA's standards by so much, the EPA would never be able to make anymore restrictions about it ever. However, lets do our part to get these corrupt and fraudulent jackasses out of the government.
This is not the last smelter in the US....it's the last PRIVATE/CORPORATE smelter for ammo. There are still two major government smelters for ammo still going...which EPA wont bother.
Also they plan to use recycled lead from batteries...it's not "smelted" then because it's recycled...price will go up but ammo will keep coming.
Ammo prices WILL NOT GO UP.... It has NOTHING to do with the lead that is used in Ammo...
Sierra uses no primary lead at all and never has, so we use nothing directly from this facility,” the company said in a statement on its website. “[W]e do not see any reason for alarm. We expect our supply to continue and keep feeding our production lines which are still running 24 hours per day to return our inventory levels to where they should be.”
“No impact upon any cast bullet manufacturing operation whatever. We do not use virgin lead, which is what Doe Run provided,” Brad Alpert, operations manager for the Missouri Bullet Company, told TheBlaze in an email. “We use foundry alloy from major foundries derived from scrap sources, purified and cleaned to purity.”
“The jacketed bullets companies (Winchester, Remington, Federal, et al.) use the same sources that we do,” Alpert wrote.
Steve Weliver of Cape Fear Arsenal added in an email to TheBlaze: “We have not begun production at rates that this will impact.”
“At this time we do not anticipate any additional strain on our ability to obtain lead,” Tim Brandt of ATK, the parent company of Federal Premium, CCI, and Speer ammunition, said in reference to the Herculaneum closure in a company FAQ.
The Washington Times’ Emily Miller independently investigated this story, interviewing NSSF general counsel and senior VP Lawrence Keane:
“Manufacturers use recycled lead to make ammunition. They don’t buy from smelters,” Mr. Keane told me Monday. “The EPA closing, which has been in the works for a while, will have no impact on production, supply or cost to the consumers.”
all lead ammo is from recycled lead. If you made bullets from pure new lead it would be 68 times more expensive. Read.
***** Well.... I'll give you an example, in 2009 there were 2.5million more cars scrapped than were sold new. And this is just scrapped cars, not counting battery sales. There are ample batteries already out there to sustain the current demand for batteries for quite some time now. We are throwing away more lead than we are using, which is why companies like J&J (lead battery producer) aren't interested in buying companies like Doe Run, but instead open recycling facilities like they did in SC.
***** Much like you, i do not care what you think... Explain to me how we are stronger by using OUR lead rather than using someone ELSES lead... Because mining lead, melting it, and scraping dirt off the top is REALLY difficult. Technology brings new jobs, while Doe Run closes and 145 jobs are lost JC opened a lead recycling facility created 250 jobs. When westinghouse invented the air brake everyone who stopped the steam engines by hand lost a job, and wanted to riot... Yet hundreds of thousands of jobs were created because of that invention.... Free economy, yup, i'm all for that.
Doe run is the last primary smelter in the US. Your asserstion to others is probably you mistaking the ones in Canada and Mexico for the US. FYI, those are NOT in the US!
Quoting Doe Run itself:
“So are the ammo manufacturers are correct when they say they get their lead from secondary smelters, that’s an accurate statement.”
“Is it also accurate to say that we are looking at lead shortages all over? That is an accurate statement too, because 130,000 tons of lead will be removed from the U.S. market.”
“So the next question is where to get additional lead? The only primary smelters left in North America are two in Canada and one in Mexico. There are also some smelters in Asia.”
“China will likely ship us batteries but not the raw material the battery manufactures wants to use to make their own batteries. It’s simple economics. Would you rather sell corn or loaves of bread? There is a profit motivation for China to sell batteries, not the raw material of lead.”
“That’s the part that people who aren’t concerned are missing. We are taking 130,000 tons off the market. So the question is: where will that lead come from? What additional costs will come to supply the market with that demand? How much will shipping lead, which is a heavy material, cost? What about the political and environmental pressure to regulate lead smelters all over the world? How much competition will be there for lead imported to the U.S.?”
“The battery companies require the largest percent of lead, 80%. So if you are someone that is not a high-demand customer, you will have less leverage with the supplier for lead. The battery companies will have an easier time with suppliers, because suppliers do not want to jeopardize a large contract. Battery manufacturers own the lead. It’s not our lead. We simply provide a service to recover the lead and return it to the battery manufactures,” said Stankey.
-Doe Run’s spokeswoman Tammy Stankey-
And no axe to grind, because they are already closing. Its a done deal. Understand?
The price per ton for lead is stagnant (2k/ton) due to production/reclamation outstripping demand. There's a couple active mines specifically producing lead here in Canada; one here in British Columbia, another in New Brunswick, and plenty of idled mines throughout Canada that would pop back if the demand warranted it. There are also a number of zinc, silver and gold mines which produce lead in quantity. We also have a number of smelters currently refining it. Any private citizen or company in the US, including ammo suppliers, can get all the lead they want (no tariffs over the border either way between US/Canada I believe) from Canada with a long distance phone call and sufficient funds. Not my place to comment on your politics, but if you want lead for bullets, your cousins up north have you covered.
Doe Run actually has lead mines that will close as well. The mines feed the smelter with lead ore. A lot of people work(ed) there, it was a huge facility.
I love the channel and am 110% pro gun, but I would have to respectfully disagree. I don't think that the EPA shutting the smelter down was for the purpose of gun control. I don't think their actions are based on trying to implement more and more regulations on the 2nd Amendment. That's similar to saying that a local city government is doing road construction right in front of my favorite gun shop causing a detour so I have to drive away from my gun shop, they must be trying to stop me from buying guns. Not trying to be a smartass here or argue, but I know most mature people can discuss things without name calling and have the ability to hear the others point of view.
Not quite. That scenario is based on construction, as versus the closure of something which is its destruction, not construction, which is the polar opposite of what you were trying to say.
To make your analogy valid, it would need to be the dismantling and destruction of a road in front of your favorite gun shop. See how that would change the outlook greatly? See how, with a perfectly good road destroyed on purpose, the issue of just what unpopular businesses might need that road to exist becomes relevant?
It all comes together once you realize what analogy is,
Matt M I was involved with and attended many of the EPA meetings about this Doe Run lead smelter. I can tell you that the push to close the factory came from the Community Action Group formed by the citizens of Herculaneum, MO. The kids had learning disabilities and people have always been sickly in this town. Our kids that live within a mile circumference of the smelter all had record levels of lead poisoning. The houses were contaminated, the yards, the streets, ....the kids carried the contamination in on their shoes to the school rooms. It's an old factory that is spitting out very contaminated emissions. They won't update it, they won't move it, they suck. They have the means to move the factory. If you want someone to blame for this place closing.....blame Ira Rennart, owner operator ...one of the richest dudes in America. He is an asshole who doesn't care about anyone. You want to see some more of his handy work? Check out La Oroya, Peru. .....that is where the second plant is. He is contaminating a whole town there too. But, it's okay cause he built a school for the mentally retarded children that he created. Seriously, you won't believe how strange this is....look it up.
+sharon walker Wow, I just read a little bit about this guy and his strategies from Wiki. I wish I could buy multi-million dollar (failing) companies with debt. Simply amazing. Thanks for the heads-up.
Calm down fellas. I'd like to follow the boy scout idea of leaving a place cleaner and better. A few months later NRA recanted on their hysterics: "almost all the lead used in ammunition in the U.S. comes from secondary sources, recycled car batteries and other sources of lead. The closing of the lead smelter has not had any effect on ammunition prices or availability. ... Lead for bullets comes from secondary sources, and that was not completely understood by people out there. We certainly tried explain that it's had virtually no effect on ammunition prices."
Matt Groner Right when they started this video, the first words of the article were "primary smelter" when Eric & Barry were talking like it was the ONLY smelter and it was sure to cause chaos for the industry.
I'm not a gun nut or even an enthusiast but I'm not anti-gun either. I watch these videos to gain some perspective and for provoking some thought. The issue here is finding a balance. The EPA should exist, there should be regulations for a cleaner environment and we should strive for better. The problem is that if the regulations did indeed shut the smelter down and more business is overseas, that defeats the purpose of the regulations in the first place. It transfers the pollution and actually makes it worse by having another country take it over. I'm happy that Barry brought up the point of slave labor, it's probably not that extreme but the whole situation is likely worse with the smelter NOT in the US. If the EPA could work with the smelter and come to an agreement rather than forcing them out of the country, that would be a win-win. No good will come from pushing that smelter to another country.
We need less super-strict black & white regulation and more understanding and willingness to keep companies and jobs in this country. It's these kind of stories that push people to the extreme, to blanketly hating the EPA and all government agencies. Government can work but this is just a lesson that it needs to be more refined, more focused, and less about the money and micro-managing.
+Matt Groner The EPA is also putting battery recyclers out of business. Exide has closed at least 2 plants.
1978garfield Exide is in chapter 11. That is why they are going away. Has nothing to do with EPA.
Love the viddeos guys. On this subject though. We got a SP 2022 chambered in 40 S&W. It took months to find ammo fore it, and last week we did. 250 rounds for 90 bucks, plane jane yellow box remington.
If your site is still up when I come out of the military, I'll get a membership for sure
"Reasonable" gun control at work. Look to the self defense laws in Australia and Great Britain, you basically don't have the right to defend yourself in either country.
Closing ANY US Manufacturing Ability Is Just Plain Stupid. Throw US Jobs Away & Depend on China. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb. Great Gripe Guys! Y'all Freakin' Rock! :-) Many Thanks!
imagine if the U.S. and china went to war...we'd be fucked sideways and by our own methods
Love your videos, learned so much about fire arms. I have a few hobbies, and watching your informed videos may become one of them. It is now 3/4/2014, and I am concerned about what you two said about the lead smelting co. shutting down. Some thing smells rotten in Denmark.
You guys are great!
LOL, After watching this for the 10th time I just picked up your point on under-manning and under-funding the ATF.
As a former contractor @B_ATF-HQ I agree you are right on the money there.
[Did anyone hear the echo of "...Follow the money..." when he said that?]
ATF hired contractors, because they couldn't get funding for proper career government employees, which always cost a fraction of what contracting really does to the budget, and government employees not only work for less pay, but they are more dedicated to the institution. Esprit de Corps.
Barry, to answer your question: They're smart, but buried in & with hands-tied by red tape which ALL comes directly from Congress. Like your gunshop, more than half of the laws that constrain them were written before WWII, and twisted into 90-degree knots dozens of times since.
What you may not understand is that everyone who works at the ATF is a 'gun nut'; big fans and proponents, every one. I've seen everyone from field agents to little old grandma-clerks swamped with paperwork, trying to process authorizations for small (and large) manufacturers & merchants. They come in early, work through lunch, and stay late.
Citizens call them and think they sound bored. No, that's just burn-out. Often they're so understaffed that one person is doing the work of 5 or 10, using computers that are now far behind that of many other government agencies.
What little budget they had is always diverted to the outrageous resource-drain explosives, and forensics applied to investigating their misuses, like in terrorism, or other crimes.
Field agents sometimes have to share one computer, or very worn laptops, sitting in a corner of State or County law enforcement offices. Their systems are relying upon 'shared' networks, and questionable power sources.
With recent spikes in weapons manufacturing they're just getting behinder & behinder. Two steps forward, and ten back.
Could there be any way that the ATF could be funded privately and not by the Federal Government?
No, and it should not be necessary. The funding comes from revenue generated to register and ensure the safe business practices of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms manufacturers industries.
The significant failure is that of Congress, diverting funds, twisting regulation laws into convoluted and often illogical knots.
Taylor Phillips The simple fact is that that their role in Firearms is like theirs for Alcohol. If you purchase a bottle labeled Gin, it should be primarily composed of Gin, safe enough to drink in moderation without blinding you, poisoning you when used as proscribed.
When a firearms manufacturer or dealer applies for permits, they submit a business plan to provide parts that won't blow up in your hand, and bullets which should fire and not fizzle. Patent disputes are regulated so that manufacturers receive proper credit for their inventions, and try to minimize patent infringement.
They ensure law abiding merchants right to conduct business is not infringed if they do not sell to criminals, or enemies, both domestic and foreign.
How about "enemies" of the government or in the government?
thanks for your perspective. (fellow gun enthusiast [nut])
Lead is dangerous, i love your videos but you could be more knowledgeable on some of the topics. We all love guns and carry.I have a grown family member who was impacted by lead as a child, his life has been far from "normal". Dare to do a deeper dive in your research, everything is not left or right. Everything is not a conspiracy. Spend some time with a child or adult who was impacted by living in close proximity to lead and see how your point of view changes. It's ignorant to think of out dated ammo availability or delayed shipping times from China when you have real USA babies who have the inability to grow up healthy like you or I. Rest In Peace Barry
Getting rid of the lead compound in gasoline(can't remember what it specifically is) is what lead to the lower crime rates after it very high in the 80s and 90s. Lowers iq and causes aggression.
love ya gripes and im trying to get into guns and can u release more please thanks
-from england-
I got pulled over by a cop for running with scissors. He ran the serial number and stated that "I was in possession of a unregistered SEMI Auto cutting device."
i have to comment on this. have you read about the testing of children in the area of the factory? do you want to put the health of the people in the area above the responsability of the owners of that factory or vice versa?
its kind of ironic that you talk about missinformation on the internet when you present such a one-sided view that is complete rubbish. i bet if it was your child living there, you would be just as mad about having your children play in areas that have 30% lead in the dust around
Is that any different than towns that grow up next to all kinds of other industry ? Cry me a river, or better yet look at all the rivers that are polluted that people use daily all over this naton. To single out one industry is just stupid. Plus it makes no difference either way, none of the major ammo makers use lead from that place, they import almost all of it. That's the new America, a poverty stricken welfare state that imports all its goods and exports all its jobs. Hey at least its 30% safer than it was before though lol.
pac6010 what is your point about ammo? nobody cares about ammo when you grow up in an area that is completly contaminated with poison. i dont single out anything. there is such a thing as a general idea about protecting those that cant protect themselves. that is why institutions like the federal authorities that impose limits on various compounds and chemicals exist. or do you want to go back 200 years and live near an industrial center and have your life expectency cut to 35 because of it? you are privileged to grow up with running water. where i grew up my my grandmother had a well in the back of the house and running water came much later. get your head out of your ass. nobody is saying anything about ammunition or weapons here.
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
Did you watch the video because thats what it was about, the impact on ammunition and prices. I don't really care about the wider environmental issues or human health issues. If I did I would watch a video pertaining to that. The point remains the same however. All kinds of large company's of all sorts pollute the crap out of every city around them. Yet they single out this place on purpose because lead is mainly used in ammunition and car battery's. Its not an accident. Its not because the place was that bad either and if the people don't like it move someplace else. Its not like this smelter was in the middle of central park now is it.
So you would just rather us have high prices AND the lead be made elsewhere and hurt other populations. Yeah, go government. So even if the whole claim on testing kids is true we don't want to just FIX THAT PROBLEM.... we want to shut down the whole operation instead, which solves nothing. Good call. Also, testing kids? Really? Really? Might want to expand on your claim a bit, because that sounds really dubious.
Jonathan Martin high or low prices of ammo... are you joking? i dont give a crap about the price of ammo. the price of a commodity lies in its cost to produce. NOBODY forced the facility to close. they simply stated that within the current way it operates, it will not be allowed to continue because it poses a hazard to the population that is there. do you realy want to enjoy cheap ammo knowing that somebody else is suffering because of that? are you this blind? i dont like that fact that some manufacturers will be supplied with lead from other parts where there are less strict rules about pollution. the right way to do it is impose the same limitations there too. not make it more convenient for you at the expense of others.
Well..I was only able to make it as far as 2:54 before I had to put my face in my palms :-( Come ON you guys. You are making it really hard for us to be supportive. We want to keep our guns but we cant fight stupid fights. You want to keep playing with lead so that people will have SHITTY jobs? Shitty jobs that kill them? That kill them but hopefully they were in a union so maybe their families might get some support. YEOUCH! sorry..that was uncalled for.
But seriously guys. You can't intelligently fight the gun war while saying stuff like you're saying. DDT created jobs too. So did agent orange. Tobacco too. The ship captains and crews and the slave hunters...they all had jobs too but you didn't keep slavery just to prevent people from collecting foodstamps.
Lead=BAD
Coal=BAD
Lead and coal industry jobs=BAD jobs
Oil and gas and fracing=BAD
Guns=GOOD
GOOD does NOT=BAD
You don't have to be on the republican side of EVERY issue. Just be on the RIGHT side of each issue and you will be serving all of us a lot better.
Hopefully I can watch the rest vid in its entirety. I LOVE watching your stuff. Most of it anyway.
Sure the jobs suck and are unhealthy but hey its a job. I work in a shipyard and its unhealthy but its still a job. Also now we will have to get lead from other countries, how much more does america need to be dependent on other countries? Nothing is made here anymore.
I live in an area where coal mining is a large source of jobs. many, many people lost their jobs when Obama stopped coal mining. I don't know what era you live in, but in modern days coal miners and lead smelters don't just wander around breathing in everything. It is highly monitored to make sure not many people have health issues.
Eric Johnson a salute to you mr. johnson.
This isn't a time period where people are breathing in particulates and contracting TB because protection is either missing or inadequate. YOU just started a substandard, dumbass fight Mr. Hypocrite.
Will Stromquist Ah, excuse me. I haven't read your book "If they don't agree with you insult them and call them wrong" Chapter 1, present no facts.
I could be wrong and ive been looking into this since i heard about the plant closing, but most of the lead for ammo comes from overseas anyway. So im sure someone can correct me
Couldn't have said it better myself gents!! Thanks for the info brothers!!
Barry and Eric, I would advise you to update this video (Grip #81). Due to you're putting out misinformation. From reading the comments below, some people who apparently lack any critical thought process. Believe the closing of this lead smelting company will make Ammo in high demand. When in fact the closing of this lead plant will have "Absolutely NO Affect on Ammo Production." This video and wrong comments made by you two, can seriously harm your credibility. I happen to enjoy your videos, however on this particular video you are both WRONG. And making several assumptions. Apparently, you didn't do a thorough enough investigation pertaining to this subject matter. If you got info from places like the NRA etc. You should always confirm and verify anything they put out. A simple research from Ammo Manufactures and you would've ascertained that this Smelting Plant doesn't sell any lead to them. As well as, most Ammo Manufactures purchase and use re-cycled lead. Due to todays smelted lead is too soft for ammo use. Just thought you guys should be made aware of this. No need to start another gun and ammo craze buying based on poor and incorrect information. Respectfully submitted.
I guess me along with the thousands of other people who were saving slowly for a reloading kit need to kick it in gear and start immediately buying a good reloading set to stay ahead of it all. Also stock up on some important components. Also get lead ( boat ballasts , lead weights ext. ) and get into casting to save some costs.
Hi Eric and Berry love the show where do you guys get your hats especially liked Berry's hat worn for gun gripes 81.
Thank you for the info.
Make another gun tour. I can't wait.
Oh man, I was just thinking of how cool it would be to see a gun-shaped cloud. So, I googled "gun in the clouds" and it came up with a picture/meme that has a cloud-shaped pistol and says "Gun Shaped Cloud Spotted Over School . . . ALL STUDENTS SUSPENDED FOR 5 DAYS", lol.
Eric & Barry - do you have any links to that article of the closing? I remember someone (I think MAC) posted about that a little while ago.
like the look of this video, looks like you are using an updated camera, filter or lighting.
This is all about bullets but what about lead for other products? Is it only ammo, or like fishing weights and any other lead products?
what is the effect on other non-bullet & non-firearm lead products?
if you cannot use lead, then switch to depleted uranium, it is heavy like lead, or maybe use gold??
hey what kind of sinkers are best for melting down into slugs?
Is it possible to make ammo out of tin and such? Cheaper metals?
So for all intents and purposes, is it basically illegal to smelt lead now?
Eric and Barry, this is the last lead smelter in the U.S. - not the last ammunition factory. Ammo manufacturers have imported lead from abroad for decades, because it's cheaper and they will continue to do so. The U.S. won't be out of ammo.
The US can buy lead from Australia. Nyrstar NV’s Port Pirie smelter in South Australia is the world’s largest primary lead smelting facility. Australia has some massive lead deposits in Mount Isa, George Fisher, Cannington and Lady Loretta
You say the last Smelter is closing!! I know for a fact that we have at least 3 left in U.S.A.. The company is called "RSR" Revere Smelting and Refinery with plants in City of Industries, CA, Indy, ID, and Middletown, NY!
What do the words SECONDARY lead smelter in the titles of those facilities mean to you? Do you understand what a secondary smelter is, vs a PRIMARY lead smelter, which is what is being discussed here??????
Many of us would like to see more gunsmithing tutorials, like the a 2-stage Mosin trigger Eric mentioned in the Mosin trigger job video
most of the lead we use is recycled, so this wont effect ammo prices much, still sucks though
in ca can you still shoot lead reloads for plinking or not at all.
I read a story last week that stated the bullet manufactures get like less then 5% of their lead directly from the smelter, they use recycled lead for bullets from recyclers, they do not use pure lead. So at this point it is all hyped up that ammo prices are going up just to scare people. Now the long term affects will remain to be seen. At this point their is billion of pounds of recyclable lead in the US right now. Car batteries are the primary user of pure lead, so if anything our car batteries prices may go up.
I worked in a lead mine in Doe Run, MO for almost two years. By the end, I was more lead than man.
Also it doesn't make sense to me how taking lead from the ground is more hazardous than taking Lead from Acid batteries and recycling them, From my understanding Lead is very porous and the acid has to be removed from the lead doesnt it??? hows that more friendly to the environment?
The decision to close this smelter was made over a year ago, why is it just now starting to raise eyebrows?
Oh, and who are the 13 people who dislike this video????? Love the channel and almost every video you produce.
The loss of those jobs is much worse than the loss of the lead. For the government to regulate a business into extinction is just plain wrong.
Right on Barry!
Listen, I'm a commercial reloader but I also live near Herculaneum Missouri. Doe Run has polluted that whole area with lead dust. Soil in playgrounds and yards have consistently tested high in lead FOR DECADES. This didn't just happen yesterday. Dust on roads and ditches are the worst because of truck travel.
I love your videos keep them coming much love from Ohio
hey guys need some info about Taurus pt92 and pt840 what would be the best choice..
Do any of you know of any lead smelters that offers stocks you can buy? Any foreign stocks that are co's in the lead smelter business?
First, Thank You Eric, Barry and Team for all that you do. much appreciate your knowledge and insight on firearms types, their operations, continued unrelenting insistence on safety first etc etc. ...however when, " there is one coincidence after another, a series of coincidences all pointing with a focused trajectory aimed at a clear goal then it ceases to be coincidences."
It makes PERFECT sense when you acknowledge and accept that your government is:
1) Owned and operated by The Corporatists who own all of the supranational-multinational corporations.
2) That these supranational-multinational corporations own all of the resources and wealth in this world.
3) Human behavior is controlled by those resources and wealth therefore
4) The supranational-multinational corporations (and their Corporatist Owners) control almost all human behavior.
5) The supranational corporations (Corporatist Owners) are the owners of your government.
6) Since the 1930's your governments were instructed by the supranational-multinational corporations (Corporatist Owners) to ABROGATE their Constitutional authority of laws creation and hand it over to seemingly independent regulatory bodies like the EPA and at least 200 others with the main idea of wiping out competition (monopoly creation) and also the strict control of any resources, goods or services so that the Corporatists would control the USA through your government and these regulatory bodies.
5) The supranational corporations (Corporatist Owners) have been telegraphing for decades now that they are going to restructure the world and the entire way our human societies operate. The USA is slated for take-down and restructuring (PERIOD) [END STOP]
It is time to stop PRETENDING it is either this or that. It is now CLEAR what they intend and they will NOT stop until they get what they want (The Corporatists). Expect more attacks on your liberties, rights and ability to defend yourselves. There is no place for naivety now. Act in accordance with this understanding.
Remember that with one side of your government's mouth (the EPA) they talk about environmental damage and the need to regulate all assaults at home yet abroad they have absolutely no problems with using nuclear material to destroy and contaminate whole areas of the globe for thousands of years into the future (DU) also "Silence is the Golden Rule" with never a spoken word about the bathing of the entire nation in artificial electromagnetic blasting through the surveillance, television-radio and communications grid plus there is the blatant in your face, atmospheric Geo-engineering spraying that is relentless visa vie what can only be called a military level armada of tanker aircraft so.....time to wake up to reality.
Planetgonenuts
Fluoride in the water, GMO's, criminal poison vaccines and medicines pharmaceutical and medical establishments etc etc.