Absolutely brilliant presentation...Rob has the rare gift of clarity and articulation to present a complex science into a simple, straightforward and intelligible concept that can be taken advantage of...the reason why I always think of him as a friendly neighbourhood Pro Photographer.
I reviewed the video 4 months after the first viewing. Plus I had a little chat with the author. I learned a lot more new things that I couldn't understand the first time. Thank you very much! I have not found a similar video on this topic anywhere. Will we meet every 4 months? :)
👍🏻Very informative video. I completely agree, Wide Gamut is a major improvement of photo lab 6. One to which I switched immediately and even reprocessed some of my images. One thing can be add is that Wide Gamut can bee combined with Linear profiles giving even more flexibility to process colors.
Thank you Rob. A terrific presentation! I am not very technically strong, but pretty ok conceptually. The way you laid out your details at each stage, definitely helped me. Just OUTSTANDING tyvm!!🍻
I love all your videos on DXO and the OM1 camera. This is a superb explanation of the colour spaces. It’s taken me a while to get to grips with DXO since moving away from Lightroom last year. But really loving the software now. I would love to see you do video on the tone area of DXO. Exposure comp, Smart lighting, tone sliders, tone curve and the additional tone sliders added to the contrast area when filmpack is installed. Keep up the great work. Appreciated. Coffee bought 👍
Great video. The terminology, graphics and benefits of the different colour profiles and existing display capacities from a practical sense is more clear to me. Thanks so much Rob. Really nice presentation with great examples. Thanks very much!
Interesting. I thought the wide gamut color space was identical to the prophoto rgb space, but the limitation seems to be for good reasons. Very well put.
Very interesting Rob! I am a Mac user, so I might try DXO Lab 6 to see if I get results similar to yours. I use Luminar 4 and Skylum Luminar Neo that seem to have a good tone and luminance matching for export to sRGB or Adobe's space. Thank you for your presentation and demonstration of your tool of choice.
Thanks Rob. I've been noticing how much better the results are from DXO for noise reduction (over Topaz & Lightroom), but I didn't realise what a difference the colour handling made. This was a really useful and well presented video!
It depends on the printer and paper. Generally, consumer level inkjet printers barely reproduce the srgb color space. Higher end photo printers can reproduce most of the adobe rgb colors. I don't know what the best printers can do. There is usually some areas that the printer can reproduce outside of a given color space and areas that it falls short. Printers that use 6 or more ink colors can reproduce more colors giving more contrast and perceived saturation.
This is a great video and has gone a long way to explain this feature in PL6. So is this basically about giving yourself greater head room for editing such that when you eventually compress the colours it provides a more natural result? One thing I'm still confused about is how to make sense of this and use it properly if the monitor is only sRGB? You showed some monitor gamut warnings, so therefore the colour you're seeing on the screen is in essence clipped from the wider bounds of the wider gamut. Apologies if I missed the point in the video! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts 😊
Activate the soft proofing for sRGB. Then click on the monitor gamut warning. If you see any highlights, those are the areas that have gone beyond the limits of what your monitor can show. So edit in the soft proofing mode and make adjustments to remove the clipping. So when you are done editing, everyone should see the same thing you are seeing.
@@RobTrek Thanks for the reply. So if using an sRGB monitor, am I correct in saying that the benefit of me using the wider gamut workspace is that it provides a better result after editing when it's compressed down to AdobeRGB or sRGB for viewing or print, compared to working in those spaces to begin with? Also, if using such a monitor I don't understand why when switching to the wider gamut that the colours change (i.e if the wider gamut is displaying colours outside of the sRGB gamut but the monitor is sRGB)? Thanks.
Yes, you will always benefit when using the wide gamut, regardless of monitor. The reason the colors change when you switch to the wider gamut is because it is pushing more colors that your monitor can display. So apparently, your monitor is able to display some colors outside of the sRGB gamut. In fact, most do. They just can't display enough colors to fill the next gamut - Adobe RGB. However, I still recommend you work within the sRGB soft proofing, check the gamut warnings, for consistent results.
Thanks for digging into Wide Gamut Rob. Great tutorial as always. Unfortunately, I'll have to stick with the classic gamut unless I can figure out why WCG is behaving oddly with my DCP profiles - I may lash in a support request, in case it's actually a bug.
@@RobTrek They're the Colorfidelity profiles, from the website of the same name. There are five, of which Standard or Medium give a starting point close to Workspace's. Toggling to WCG causes a big loss in punch, like the opposite of Clearview! If I use DXO's camera profile, I can see a subtler version of this on some shots, but most barely change if I toggle between color spaces. My display is '99% Adobe RGB' (BENQ SW2700PT); perhaps that's a factor. Anyway, don't worry; I'll persevere and will likely air this on the DXO support forum with some examples.
@@DownwindDec The WCG is very subtle most of the time, but usually will have more color and contrast. It's only on images with very saturated colors where it pops more. I'm using Windows with a 98% P3 display.
Excellent! However, I watched all this on a standard monitor that possibly cannot display 100% sRGB. And all my images are required to display fine in sRGB. So I still have some question marks in my head ;-)
So long as your monitor is calibrated, Photolab will display the correct colors. Just select sRGB in the soft proofing and click on the monitor and destination gamut warning buttons. If you see any highlighted areas on the monitor gamut warning, that is where your monitor can't display the full color. If you see any highlighted areas on the destination gamut warning, that is where you have edited beyond what sRGB can show. You'll mainly want to edit for the destination gamut, so make sure there are no highlights there. PS, I use spyderx tools to calibrate my monitors. I have a video on it here: ruclips.net/video/XXigq2mDYQo/видео.html
When I export an image to a file or to Lightroom, the colors in such programs become duller. Very noticeable. jpg with srgb, tiff, tiff in Lr, the resulting tiff in dxo itself, when viewing the file it made, the colors are the same dull). I use ACR, rawcolor, C1 - everything is fine when exporting from them. When exporting from DxO, this is a hat with a shift in gamma, saturation, and shades in bright colors. Left to ACR again.
My guess would be that when you're exporting, the ICC profile is not set properly. For JPG, make sure it's set to sRGB and check the box that says "Preserve Color Details". For TIFF, make sure you set it to 16bit, ICC is ProphotoRGB, and check Preserve Color Details. When browsing in LR, the initial image will look flat. However, when you go into the Develop, it should show the proper colors. Let me know if that worked.
I'd wait until October timeframe to upgrade with the holiday sales kick in. If have a higher end monitor that can display Adobe RGB or P3 and you regularly print to higher end printers, then you will get better colors throughout the workflow. If that's important, then yes. For most of us, we use srgb monitors and share online. Working within Photolab 5's colorspace is more than enough.
@@RobTrek Master, if I may, one more question. I am exporting a .dng file from DxO to the ON1 program. And there, no matter what the profile settings, I can’t get the exact result that I see in DxO. It turns out very close, but not exactly the same in some color nuances, shades of colors. Is it not possible to get the exact result in .dng in another program? Or is there a way to pull out the DxO Wide Gamut color profile and load it into ON1? By default it is not there.
@@SergNikiforovGordeev Each raw processing software demosaics raw files in their own way. So colors may not match. The best you can do is make sure the display profile and soft proofing profiles are matched between DxO and ON1. So I use P3 display profile and sRGB workspace profile. Your display profile may be different depending on your monitor. So it's important to make sure your computer monitor is also calibrated.
Thanks for the answer. I am trying to understand. Maybe I’ll ask a completely naive question? When exporting from DxO to tiff and jpg graphic formats, I do not see the ability to select a color space in the export settings. Or don't I find it? Or am I asking the wrong question? But even my graphic files are slightly different in other editors from what I see in DxO. Could it be exported with the color space selected in Soft Proofing?
@@SergNikiforovGordeev On export, you would select the ICC Profile. For jpg, I would use sRGB. If you are going to edit the TIFF file later, export using ProphotoRGB for best compatibility with other editors. Otherwise, sRGB is fine for TIFF. The ICC profile will be baked in, so choose carefully if exporting for sharing or printing.
Absolutely brilliant presentation...Rob has the rare gift of clarity and articulation to present a complex science into a simple, straightforward and intelligible concept that can be taken advantage of...the reason why I always think of him as a friendly neighbourhood Pro Photographer.
Thanks, Ravi. I try.
Brilliant, now i think i understand how to use the soft proof option, thank you!!!!
You are welcome!
I reviewed the video 4 months after the first viewing. Plus I had a little chat with the author. I learned a lot more new things that I couldn't understand the first time. Thank you very much! I have not found a similar video on this topic anywhere.
Will we meet every 4 months? :)
Amazing video. Now going back to shooting in RAW and editing with my DXO PL7 👍
Great video, amazingly clear! With you, complicated topics become easy to understand. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
👍🏻Very informative video.
I completely agree, Wide Gamut is a major improvement of photo lab 6. One to which I switched immediately and even reprocessed some of my images.
One thing can be add is that Wide Gamut can bee combined with Linear profiles giving even more flexibility to process colors.
Great tip! Can you elaborate on what you mean by Linear profiles? Thanks.
Thanks so much for the great explanation!
You're very welcome!
Thank you Rob.
A terrific presentation!
I am not very technically strong, but pretty ok conceptually.
The way you laid out your details at each stage, definitely helped me.
Just OUTSTANDING
tyvm!!🍻
Glad it was helpful!
I love all your videos on DXO and the OM1 camera.
This is a superb explanation of the colour spaces.
It’s taken me a while to get to grips with DXO since moving away from Lightroom last year. But really loving the software now.
I would love to see you do video on the tone area of DXO. Exposure comp, Smart lighting, tone sliders, tone curve and the additional tone sliders added to the contrast area when filmpack is installed.
Keep up the great work. Appreciated. Coffee bought 👍
Many thanks!
Ah.... finally. I understand. I probably need to watch it again, but an awesome explanation. Thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. The terminology, graphics and benefits of the different colour profiles and existing display capacities from a practical sense is more clear to me. Thanks so much Rob. Really nice presentation with great examples. Thanks very much!
Thank you!
That's a great explanation. Thank you Rob.
Interesting. I thought the wide gamut color space was identical to the prophoto rgb space, but the limitation seems to be for good reasons. Very well put.
Thanks!
Very interesting Rob! I am a Mac user, so I might try DXO Lab 6 to see if I get results similar to yours. I use Luminar 4 and Skylum Luminar Neo that seem to have a good tone and luminance matching for export to sRGB or Adobe's space. Thank you for your presentation and demonstration of your tool of choice.
Excellent explanation. Many thanks Rob!
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Thanks Rob. I've been noticing how much better the results are from DXO for noise reduction (over Topaz & Lightroom), but I didn't realise what a difference the colour handling made. This was a really useful and well presented video!
Thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you!
Thank you so much for the tutorials, please do more tutorials of Photolab 6 :D
More to come!
Outstanding explanation, Rob. Thank you.
Thanks, Walter! I try.
Nice explanation to learn
Thanks!
Thanks Rob👍
You bet!
What are the limits of printing the expanded color space? Interesting stuff.
It depends on the printer and paper. Generally, consumer level inkjet printers barely reproduce the srgb color space. Higher end photo printers can reproduce most of the adobe rgb colors. I don't know what the best printers can do. There is usually some areas that the printer can reproduce outside of a given color space and areas that it falls short. Printers that use 6 or more ink colors can reproduce more colors giving more contrast and perceived saturation.
@@RobTrek Thanks.
Helpfull information, thanks 👍
Glad it was helpful!
This is a great video and has gone a long way to explain this feature in PL6. So is this basically about giving yourself greater head room for editing such that when you eventually compress the colours it provides a more natural result? One thing I'm still confused about is how to make sense of this and use it properly if the monitor is only sRGB? You showed some monitor gamut warnings, so therefore the colour you're seeing on the screen is in essence clipped from the wider bounds of the wider gamut. Apologies if I missed the point in the video! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts 😊
Activate the soft proofing for sRGB. Then click on the monitor gamut warning. If you see any highlights, those are the areas that have gone beyond the limits of what your monitor can show. So edit in the soft proofing mode and make adjustments to remove the clipping. So when you are done editing, everyone should see the same thing you are seeing.
@@RobTrek Thanks for the reply. So if using an sRGB monitor, am I correct in saying that the benefit of me using the wider gamut workspace is that it provides a better result after editing when it's compressed down to AdobeRGB or sRGB for viewing or print, compared to working in those spaces to begin with? Also, if using such a monitor I don't understand why when switching to the wider gamut that the colours change (i.e if the wider gamut is displaying colours outside of the sRGB gamut but the monitor is sRGB)? Thanks.
Yes, you will always benefit when using the wide gamut, regardless of monitor. The reason the colors change when you switch to the wider gamut is because it is pushing more colors that your monitor can display. So apparently, your monitor is able to display some colors outside of the sRGB gamut. In fact, most do. They just can't display enough colors to fill the next gamut - Adobe RGB. However, I still recommend you work within the sRGB soft proofing, check the gamut warnings, for consistent results.
@@RobTrek Thank you for your guidance on this, much appreciated 😊
Thanks for digging into Wide Gamut Rob. Great tutorial as always. Unfortunately, I'll have to stick with the classic gamut unless I can figure out why WCG is behaving oddly with my DCP profiles - I may lash in a support request, in case it's actually a bug.
I found some free dcp profiles online and didn't have any issues with standard daylight images. What kind of dcp profiles are you using?
@@RobTrek They're the Colorfidelity profiles, from the website of the same name. There are five, of which Standard or Medium give a starting point close to Workspace's. Toggling to WCG causes a big loss in punch, like the opposite of Clearview! If I use DXO's camera profile, I can see a subtler version of this on some shots, but most barely change if I toggle between color spaces. My display is '99% Adobe RGB' (BENQ SW2700PT); perhaps that's a factor. Anyway, don't worry; I'll persevere and will likely air this on the DXO support forum with some examples.
@@DownwindDec The WCG is very subtle most of the time, but usually will have more color and contrast. It's only on images with very saturated colors where it pops more. I'm using Windows with a 98% P3 display.
Excellent! However, I watched all this on a standard monitor that possibly cannot display 100% sRGB. And all my images are required to display fine in sRGB. So I still have some question marks in my head ;-)
So long as your monitor is calibrated, Photolab will display the correct colors. Just select sRGB in the soft proofing and click on the monitor and destination gamut warning buttons. If you see any highlighted areas on the monitor gamut warning, that is where your monitor can't display the full color. If you see any highlighted areas on the destination gamut warning, that is where you have edited beyond what sRGB can show. You'll mainly want to edit for the destination gamut, so make sure there are no highlights there. PS, I use spyderx tools to calibrate my monitors. I have a video on it here: ruclips.net/video/XXigq2mDYQo/видео.html
When I export an image to a file or to Lightroom, the colors in such programs become duller. Very noticeable. jpg with srgb, tiff, tiff in Lr, the resulting tiff in dxo itself, when viewing the file it made, the colors are the same dull).
I use ACR, rawcolor, C1 - everything is fine when exporting from them. When exporting from DxO, this is a hat with a shift in gamma, saturation, and shades in bright colors. Left to ACR again.
My guess would be that when you're exporting, the ICC profile is not set properly. For JPG, make sure it's set to sRGB and check the box that says "Preserve Color Details". For TIFF, make sure you set it to 16bit, ICC is ProphotoRGB, and check Preserve Color Details. When browsing in LR, the initial image will look flat. However, when you go into the Develop, it should show the proper colors. Let me know if that worked.
Rob, do you think the wider color gamut in DXO 6 is enough of a reason on its own to upgrade from version 5?
I'd wait until October timeframe to upgrade with the holiday sales kick in. If have a higher end monitor that can display Adobe RGB or P3 and you regularly print to higher end printers, then you will get better colors throughout the workflow. If that's important, then yes. For most of us, we use srgb monitors and share online. Working within Photolab 5's colorspace is more than enough.
Master, do you think it’s possible to load the DxO proprietary color space into the Photoshop settings and continue to refine it there?
Yes. Export as 16bit tiff and select DxO Wide Gamut Color in the ICC profile drop down window.
@@RobTrek Master, if I may, one more question. I am exporting a .dng file from DxO to the ON1 program. And there, no matter what the profile settings, I can’t get the exact result that I see in DxO. It turns out very close, but not exactly the same in some color nuances, shades of colors. Is it not possible to get the exact result in .dng in another program? Or is there a way to pull out the DxO Wide Gamut color profile and load it into ON1? By default it is not there.
@@SergNikiforovGordeev Each raw processing software demosaics raw files in their own way. So colors may not match. The best you can do is make sure the display profile and soft proofing profiles are matched between DxO and ON1. So I use P3 display profile and sRGB workspace profile. Your display profile may be different depending on your monitor. So it's important to make sure your computer monitor is also calibrated.
Thanks for the answer. I am trying to understand. Maybe I’ll ask a completely naive question? When exporting from DxO to tiff and jpg graphic formats, I do not see the ability to select a color space in the export settings. Or don't I find it? Or am I asking the wrong question? But even my graphic files are slightly different in other editors from what I see in DxO. Could it be exported with the color space selected in Soft Proofing?
@@SergNikiforovGordeev On export, you would select the ICC Profile. For jpg, I would use sRGB. If you are going to edit the TIFF file later, export using ProphotoRGB for best compatibility with other editors. Otherwise, sRGB is fine for TIFF. The ICC profile will be baked in, so choose carefully if exporting for sharing or printing.