I'm a convert to the LDS faith. I came from the Baptist faith. I had been "saved" baptized and considered myself a Christian because i tried to follow Jesus. But that wasnt enough i wanted to learn more than the pastor of my little church could teach me. I was amazed at the knowledge the missionaries had and they taught with such power and authority, something that i had never expertenced before. After they baptized me i felt truly clean and once i had been confirmed and given the gift of the Holy Ghost it was amazing at the light and knowledge that i began to receive. I am so grateful for those missionaries, for my brother turning in a referral for my husband and me. But most of all i am grateful for Joseph Smith who was a vessel that God used to restore his Priesthood authority back to the earth. God is truly keeping his promises to Abraham, Issac and Jacob that through a latterday seer all the families of the earth would be blessed. I've been a member now for over 50 years and i am still learning! Praise be to God for his love and mercy for bringing back prophets, apostles, and the Book of Mormon to help us find joy in these last days.
My father came from a hardshell Baptist church. And wanted me and my brother to have God in our lives. So every church he went to, he decided to ask some questions he has always had. So he went to a Baptist church, asked them these three questions he had. Now my father is a learned man. He had an education. So he asked this one church. 1. Where did we come from. 2. Where are we going when we die. And. Then 3. Where did the native Americans come from. And don't tell me the bearing straight. The first church was nice to us , but that God has mysteries we don't need to know about. He then pointed out right there in the bible , that any man with a question let him ask of God, and it shall be answered. So we left there. We went to church after church all answered about the same well except one that accused us of being spy for the Mormon church. Dad just laughed into the guys face, for we never even heard of Mormons. So a couple months go by , and tow lady missionaries through my mother talked.to dad. And they answered every question he put to them. Never faltering. We all joined the next month. Been a member for 55 years of my 65. 😊
@@MrRickb75645Great story and similar to my dear late dad’s story . He was raised in a strict Baptist home and desiring more he was prepared to listen to the missionaries. He was the lone member all of his life but truly endured to the end and passed on his testimony to me . I have family members that won’t sit with me on instructions from their pastors …hard to understand ?
You'd be the one to interview Alice Cooper and his life in the Bickertonites as a kid. As far as I know, he's never talked about it. He has really identified as a Christian the last 15-20 years as a priority. Maybe he would be open to talk about those years.
Steven is the best. He's so respectful of the restoration and doesn't play gatekeeper of Latter-day Saints' Christianity, like so many Evangelicals do. Even Jeff from Hello Saints, in his most recent podcast, was unwilling to say Latter-day Saints are Christian, to say that Mormonism is a better alternative to Atheism, or to say that Mormonism is not a cult.
@@MormonBookReviews I appreciate your respect towards members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I also appreciate how you tell it like it is.
I live in Texas... years ago I would have been ruthlessly harassed for being LDS... ever since C19, it seems like folks really don't care about whose religion is next door to them, they just want good people around them. Sometimes, the good Lord puts good people together so His work can get done one way or the other... he sees the broader picture, we just need to do our work. As much as it has hurt to see members leave our church, I also get to experience the joy of seeing people come and join us.
I’m LDS and my best friend in high school is baptist. We had such a good friendship growing up. When she was dating a lds member and wanted him to leave his religion for her. I suggested her taking lessons just to get a better understanding of what we believe so she could understand his beliefs more. Surprisingly, She freaked out yelling at me with all the stuff her pastor had told her over the years. Our friendship wasn’t the same after that. It broke my heart because all the things she said we untrue. I’m grateful that we don’t spend time picking on other religions in the church. We might talk about differences or similarities of beliefs (very rarely) but we never attack others. It’s sad that so much of her church service growing up was dedicated to bashing lds members and why we are going to hell. Bashing isn’t helping the religious community be united. Understanding the differences and similarities does help us become united.
Pynaker, I went to a celebration of Mormon Pioneers in Garden Grove Iowa back around 2000. There were only a couple of members but this little town celebrated Pioneer Day. There school team was called The Pioneers. I don't think there were amy Mormons living there. I lived in Missouri at the time amd was invited. I had dinner with the Iowa Mormon History Association with about 6 people. They were all non members. I knew a few things they didn't but they knew a lot and I learned from them. That was an eye opener that there are people who are not LDS and were excited about Mormon History.
I have more in common with faithful evangelicals than I do with woke members of my own LDS faith. Even this pastor, who I understand is gay, I value more than members of my own faith who are deceptive in their intents. I value differences of belief much more than people who are deceptive or wolves in sheep’s clothing who hide their true intent.
I'm from the east and have no woke members in our branch. Nor in any other ward I lived in. Just how does a woke LDS have deceptive intent? Do they change the doctrine? How many are you talking about? You have left me reeling with questions.
@@edwardgabriel5281 I didn't grow up in Utah, though we're here now. It's rampant. Throwing important bits of the gospel out the window under the guise of "niceness". Instead of being a peculiar people, there is a ton of bending over backwards to be like everyone else and to be liked or approved of by everyone else.
@@edwardgabriel5281 Elder’s quorum instructor advocating for gay temple marriage, member testifying in fast and testimony meeting how racist the Book of Mormon is, member saying in gospel doctrine how the Family Proclamation is a document of hate, a fifth Sunday meeting stating how racist we all are as we need to do more to teach our children black history, how we don’t do enough for illegal immigration, and just this week, how Nephi was wrong and angry at his brothers which explains how he wrote incorrectly about the skin of blackness - that never really happened for starters.
@@markstimson983 I am seriously dumbfounded. I am grateful for the most amazing confirmation I received, at baptism, so that nothing can dent my testimony. I wish everybody could have experienced the same, From 1953 to now, there were quite a few trials of faith, but it persuaded me to persevere. I am also fortunate to have such wonderful, knowledgeable, faithful fellow members who were able to fill in the blanks when they appeared. I am also fortunate that at 95, I have had the time to experience the detractors of our church shooting their firery darts on You Tube and other social media, and survive the exercise. Enduring to the end is the hardest part of living the Gospel. I do believe I will survive. Thanks for your answer.
I am a member of a non denominational Christian fellowship and feel called to introduce "Bible Only" Christians to Another Testament of Jesus Christ (The Book of Mormon).
Great conversation! Thank you for having him. I do have to say something; the reason why most ex-mos end up becoming Atheists is not necessarily because of the way Evangelicals behave, but it's because the reasoning they use to dismantle our faith will dismantle any faith in a higher power. This is why I get so ticked with those evangelicals, they want to hold our religion to a standard their own religion wouldn't hold up to. They shoot themselves in the foot and leave people with nothing at the end
I grew up an evangelical. I later became an atheist for a decade. I then converted to the LDS church 26 years ago. There is a lot of truth to Steven's claims about evangelicals. Evangelicals get a lot of their information about LDS church members off the internet, church library books, and from their pastor. Most evangelicals have little knowledge about the LDS church, and often make claims that are not true. One of the most hurtful things they will say is Mormons are not Christians.
Minute 40...Greg you are NAILING IT!!!! I wish we would talk about this constantly at church. We are so conditioned for results based relationships at times that we miss the beauty of simple friendship, support, fun, and helping people along. Great discussion you guys, really enjoyed it. This IS the Restoration in action.
Evangelical friends, closer than family since before I was born, cut all connections to me when I became a LDS in 1953 at age 25. Not a word since then. I tried hard, They all were engaged as pastors and became leaders in the sect, In all the years since, I have heard nothing but opposition from all evangelicals. Remember, quite some time ago, they came to SLC in force to proselatize LDS there with the argument LDS believe in a different Jesus Christ than the one in the Bible. I would love for them to soften their hearts to us, but it has never gained traction in all these years. 71 years. I can still hear another accusation "we are stealing their flock". There are millions of people on earth who have a belief in Jesus Christ, which makes me happy. God loves all his children whether they barely got through the 6th grade or graduated from an ivy league university. We march to the drumbeat we hear. Some don't hear a drumbeat so they don't march at all. I thank God we live in the USA which still espouses freedom of religion.
Ever since my mission (and like everyone, got trashed daily by Evangelicals), I've always wondered why we get kicked to the curb so badly. We are the natural allies of Evangelicals!! Abortion / traditional marriage / gender / religious liberty... I could go on and on.. It is OK if we do not endorse each other's theology, at least see us as the allies we both need.
2:46 I love this. We dont need to agree in order to understand. Understanding is not agreement. Or it doesn't have to be. It can simply be someone taking a moment to see it from the other persons perspective along with their experiences, to at least comprehend why it is that they believe the way they do. This all shouldn't be about controlling others or wining or losing; its about compassion and empathy.
Sometimes I act as the Secretary of State for what I believe and sometimes but not often I’m the Secretary of War. Knowing when to stand up and defend what I believe is a learned skill, enhanced by the gift of the Holy Ghost. Mostly I go about life trying to act as The secretary of State for my beliefs. This moved me. What a kind approach. No one behaves well if they feel disrespected. Thank you.
Thank you for your kind words. I know many believers of all Christian faiths including Catholicism who understand the bible well. I believe the Lord will care more about how we treat one another from what our understanding is. Anyhow, I appreciate your compliment!
4:08 We actually have a lot of Evangelicals we listen to. David Boice from 52 Churches in 52 Weeks, Red Pen Logic, Ready to Harvest, Tim Mackie on Bible Project, Dallas Jenkins on the Chosen. We actually have a lot of Evangelicals we listen to and learn from.
Please tell me one principle of doctrine you have learned from them. I'm 95 and have listened a lot and I can tell you that LDS doctrine is true, every bit of it.
I've never heard from Steven before but greatly appreciate his positivity. Intent speaks volumes and in is clear that both of you are honestly working to build bridges between Evangelical Christians and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thanks for the very entertaining podcast!
Steven is great, love to hear conversations about different faiths and history. I am married to an LDS but I was raised catholic and do not plan to convert to LDS, but I love your channel Greg and all your episodes.
I used to think it was an us and them situation, with some exceptions among the people I have interacted with. The more I get to know the evangelical community, the more I realise it's everyone against everyone. I had plans to reach out and unite LDS, orthodox, evangelical, and non-Christian faith communities against the coming atheist apocalypse, mark of the beast etc. Unfortunately, what I am noticing is that of all these groups, it's the evangelicals that will be the hardest to unite. It's a great concern to me that there is so much gate-keeping and purity testing - often over small matters that we won't be able to unite as we need to.
Hello Greg Matsen and Steven. Pynakker my name is John and I am both a Evangelical born again Christian and a Mormon convert . I became a born again Christian and then latee on in years I became a LDS convert in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints . After I became a LDS convert in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints I still remained a evangelical born again Christian . As a LDS convert I never abandoned my basic evangelical Christian beliefs. I also have not denied some of the things what I know is true in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. I literally gave up the need to be right. Before I converted in the LDS church I use to be a person that needed to be right. I use to be a fundamentalists evangelical that read all anti Mormon books. I use to pass out Mormon pamplets out. I use to tell LDS people that they were going to hell. I use to tell everyone that they were going to hell. I read every anti Mormon books and I use to go to anti Mormon conferences held by evangelicals. I use to only read everything against latter day saints. I use to be anti Mormon. Anti Jehovah witnesses anti seventh day Adventists. Anti pentecoastal. Anti everything ..I also started reading everything on the oro Mormon side. And I read everything. Pro Adventists pro Jehovah witnesses pro Christian science pro aoolfetics in all demimunatiins. I also was involved in the ex cult movement I use to be exclusive sectarian. I also on the other side I have felt like I'm in the middle of both worlds
Arguing doesn’t get you anywhere. I have a testimony of the LDS church and I don’t need to be saved by the evangelicals or JWs or whoever. I just laugh at them for thinking they need to save me. To me it shows their lack of knowledge 🤷🏼♀️. No need to argue! We can still play in the same sandbox if we don’t agree on religion! But…I have to say I love Jeff Mccullogh (sp?) for his honest and respectful comparison❣️ love his channel👍🏻. Love learning the differences in our religions!
Did you know that the minister that said Alvin is going to hell was actually one that was in the mob who pulled him out of his house when he was sleeping with his baby twins and tarred and feathered him and tried to kill him . Or actually did . There is an account on that you a look up . Anyway this is what kind of a preacher he was. An actual murder who says some else is going to hell. Takes some nerve for a preacher like that to hate so much . Then make judgements . He judged Joseph Smith should be killed . And the attracts continue even now through hate . Why hate ? Who stirs them up against truth ??
Fantastic interview - THANKS GREG & STEVE - - I have a mantra that applies throughout several aspects of life, and that is "Boundaries *not* Barriers" - . . . No boundaries can otherwise become barriers, but barriers are power contests such as bible bashing and so forth and just never result. . . I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and "Christian" is literally and figuratively my middle name - - in case anyone happens to read this - Jesus Christ's name is at the forefront of the church's name as well for a reason and the name of the church is the name that it was given by God. - I really like Bruce R. McConkie's use of the word "Sectarian" as well - to describe what's often called "Mainstream Christianity" - . . . I personally prefer sectarianism.
I love both of you Gary matsen and Steve pynakker I love both of you and I feel the spirit of God from. Both of you. I feel the agape love from both of you. I appreciate both of you
Thank you so much guys. Interfaith is essential work in any generation. I believe we do not have many years left. Let us all help people to find the right church for them. I have learnt about Islam through listening to you tube cannels and it can be entertaining but mocking other beliefs is not the right way to help people. I have listened to evangelicals pull our church to bits and I am afraid I throw the baby out with the bathwater. I should still watch to learn somethings but I go off them. One thing that evangelicals pick on is in the book of Mormon in which Nephi says" it is by grace that we are saved after all you can do. Evangelicals preach grace only not works and then go preaching every day. My answer I think should be the next part "but by grace so that no man should boast." ❤ to you both from UK
Go watch the videos that Ward Radio posted today 2/23/24, and it’ll warm your heart. A young man who was one of those evangelicals who preached outside temple square, is now LDS. Go watch his story.
Gary matsen and Steve pynakker I love this video and I'm listening to it over and over because I find this inspiring and I only wish there were other resources that I could go to to talk to oeople like both gart and steve
Hello Gary matsen and Steven pynakkee there is so much that I could relate to from both of you. Both of you have said things that I really feel is true and one thing I have always felt is interfaith. I've always supported interfaith even before I became a LDS convert. There is so much I can't express in both of my worlds. You both are the only ones I could feel I could express how I feel. If I were ri tell sone of my latter day saint friends sime of my evangelical beliefs and feelings some of my LDS friends would criticize me and say I have become a aoistate. If i were to tell some of my evangelical born agaib believers about sins of my beliefs and feelings in the LDS world they would tell me I'm not a Christian and would tell me in giung to hell . I had a lds relative disoen me because I had evangelucal beluefs. I also have had some evangelical vorn again Christians tell me that they can't be around me or tell me I'm going to hell. I've had from both camps tell me don't read this dong read that. I wish there were some people like Gary matsen and steven pynakkee that I could talk to. I'm a inactive member of the LDS church. I'm at a point that I go to anti church including the LDS church. U wish soneone could help me. I have a very strong oersonal relationship.with Jesus Christ as my personal saviour . I'm more about interfaith ad I like being with everyone. I see positive similarities of mormonism and swedenborgians. I have Always been. A swedenborg supporter.
One thing that can bring all sides together is the risk of religious institutions losing their 501 C3 IRS status. Perhaps a show to talk about what if this happens?
I love conversations like these. I feel like we should be on the same team and celebrate our faith in Jesus Christ. I don't understand why there is so much hate between sects of Christianity. Christ would want us to work together, not against each other.
"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." -John 13:35 He didn't say "By the power of your miracles" or "By the strength of your preaching" or "By your knowledge of the scriptures." Ultimately, Christ's true followers will be identified by showing true, Christlike love for their neighbors. The distinction of who possesses true Christlike love is all the more visible in the midst of persecution, because "even the publicans" love those that love them. As the world becomes more divisive and more chaotic, I think it will become easier for all those who truly follow Christ to know where to gather.
I do understand your point, Jerry. I'm all for interfaith dialog. But I'm not 100% convinced that that is what Steven Pynakker is doing. He has mentioned before that he has a ministry. A ministry is quite different than interfaith dialog. He has also stated that evangelicals who criticize him just don't understand what he's doing. Hmm. Most evangelicals understand what interfaith outreach is. Why don't they understand what he's doing? So many latter-day saints are worried about Pastor Jeff's motives, but my concerns are being raised much, much more by Steven. I adore the guy personally. I think he's very likable. But he mentions his wonderful friend John Dehlin every chance he gets and sings Dehlin's praises. Same with the Tanner's. He humble brags quite often. And he drops little nuggets. For instance, saying that Joseph Smith "found a way " to try and make Alvin in heaven. Then, there was the talk about this evangelical who was taking money from people to beat up on the Mormons. Steven says that the thing wrong about that is that nobody knows who the guy even is!! (Not that he's constantly beating up on the church.) I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. But my caution sensors really are blaring.
@@gwengold8154 Well, it is an interfaith dialogue. He's not somebody we should be trying to emulate or learn doctrine from. He's not our leader. If we make him one, then that's something we ought to be worried about. The prophet counseled us last General Conference: "Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust-from prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost, who “will show unto you all things what ye should do.” If we start listening to Steven or Pastor Jeff more than we do our own prophet or the Holy Spirit, that's a problem. And for many, that is a problem. But it doesn't have to be.
@@itsmorphed6416 Ideally to promote goodwill and understanding and perhaps even work together towards our common interests. Tribalism and isolation leads to animosity and mistrust. At the end of the day we’re all God’s children.
@jerry_phillips different sects of religion is tribalism? What about the freedom to practice and believe what you want without hurting anybody else aka freedom of religion. This is a western value is it not ?
In a world where we need to work together to promote stronger families, and combat the onslaught of evil, why do we care what someone believes about anything other than that there is a higher power who loves His children. AS one example of many, I don't care if someone believes in the trinity when I believe in 3 separate personages. How does that difference affect our friendship or the ability to work together to bring God's love to our children. If each of us made a concerted effort to form an authentic friendship with someone of a different religious background, we could change our communities in remarkable ways.
There is a Baptist minister in Independence, Missouri, who uses the Book of Mormon in his sermons in a positive way alongside the Bible. I think you should have him on your program.
right now its a luxury for those who want to nit pick over diff doctrines of diff religions...while real evil is destroying all Christian religions from within. the day will come when all who have a belief in God will be forced to band together to fight the real enemy. my question to the evangelicals is this...what are you trying to save the latter-day saints from? they live a higher law than evangelicals. most evangelicals are not capable of living the higher law....and yet they think they are going to save the saints from what...doing to much good while celebrating Christ's restored church? its laughable
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but it was I interesting learning there is a bit of a riff between Steven and Mormon Research Ministry. I interviewed Eric Johnson on my podcast. He seemed more than willing to have interfaith dialogue...
I think Pynaker is the only one to talk about his family in the Bickertonites, growing up in the church until his family moved to Arizona.. He's got to have some insight on his own story that would be fun.
You could look up Steven's appearance on Saints unscripted. He talks about it there. In a nutshell, he was very depressed and lost interest in almost everything. Had he continued down that path, he might have been suicidal. But he remained very interested in learning about "mormonism," and it pulled him through the depression.
I really like this channel, but I feel like we are all open arms with these people to the point where their niceness is the most important thing. He says Joseph being a true prophet is a point of view..... He says that the church changed his life, but he didn't join.... come on. Now the hello saints guy wants to merge LDS wards into his faith; he surely isn't going to merge into an LDS ward. I bet he would love the LDS tithes though. BTW I really love and Respect this channel.
I know I have the truth. I know the church is true. I also know that they Crucified Jesus and killed the prophets. Truth is not popular with many...But I will proclaim it and testify of this Church, and of Christ and at the same time pray that their hearts will soften. I know I am right, but I can't PROVE it. It is up to the Holy Ghost to testify to their hearts of the truth, and it is up to THEM to soften their hearts to HEAR HIM.
I love your work so much and I think here it was very evident where Evangelical circuit break on the merits whenever he interrupted you about the niacin Creed. In my opinion evangelicals fail on the merits every time and all the standards they have are "of the world". The idea that the niacin Creed has standing spiritually speaking because of who it was adjudicated by as man, but then therafter not Joseph Smith makes no sense. Especially when you go over the old adage of two brains better than three. On the 2nd that I think just fails on its face is their neo-zionist materialist third Temple ideology so that Jews May sacrifice animals and that somehow that prompts a second coming of Christ and for that reason they cheer on genocide. It seems absolutely ridiculous to me cubed. What in the gospels would suggest that and what about genocide and sacrificing animals is good news and on that ground, on what merits do they call themselves Christian or anything in the image of Christ? Evengelism to me seems like some contemporary feel docket to pacify the cravings of natural man in Christian language to what is otherwise etymologically materially "Satanism" on the merits.
I am conducting a special forum on Friday afternoon from 2-4 pm where I will also give a few words on the topic of scholar Margaret Barker and the conditions of Jerusalem at the time of Lehi. I have two talks, 1) Friday night at 6:00-6:45 pm and Saturday morning at 10:00-10:45 am.
LDS apostles have taught that Jesus came to earth to work out HIS OWN salvation , and that LDS church members should NOT have a personal relationship with Jesus . “ Now I know that some may be offended at the counsel that they should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ.“ “Our Relationship with the Lord “ by BRUCE R. MCCONKIE of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles March 2.1982
I'm a convert to the LDS faith. I came from the Baptist faith. I had been "saved" baptized and considered myself a Christian because i tried to follow Jesus. But that wasnt enough i wanted to learn more than the pastor of my little church could teach me. I was amazed at the knowledge the missionaries had and they taught with such power and authority, something that i had never expertenced before. After they baptized me i felt truly clean and once i had been confirmed and given the gift of the Holy Ghost it was amazing at the light and knowledge that i began to receive. I am so grateful for those missionaries, for my brother turning in a referral for my husband and me. But most of all i am grateful for Joseph Smith who was a vessel that God used to restore his Priesthood authority back to the earth. God is truly keeping his promises to Abraham, Issac and Jacob that through a latterday seer all the families of the earth would be blessed. I've been a member now for over 50 years and i am still learning! Praise be to God for his love and mercy for bringing back prophets, apostles, and the Book of Mormon to help us find joy in these last days.
My father came from a hardshell Baptist church. And wanted me and my brother to have God in our lives. So every church he went to, he decided to ask some questions he has always had. So he went to a Baptist church, asked them these three questions he had. Now my father is a learned man. He had an education. So he asked this one church. 1. Where did we come from. 2. Where are we going when we die. And. Then 3. Where did the native Americans come from. And don't tell me the bearing straight. The first church was nice to us , but that God has mysteries we don't need to know about. He then pointed out right there in the bible , that any man with a question let him ask of God, and it shall be answered. So we left there. We went to church after church all answered about the same well except one that accused us of being spy for the Mormon church. Dad just laughed into the guys face, for we never even heard of Mormons. So a couple months go by , and tow lady missionaries through my mother talked.to dad. And they answered every question he put to them. Never faltering. We all joined the next month. Been a member for 55 years of my 65. 😊
@@MrRickb75645Great story and similar to my dear late dad’s story . He was raised in a strict Baptist home and desiring more he was prepared to listen to the missionaries. He was the lone member all of his life but truly endured to the end and passed on his testimony to me . I have family members that won’t sit with me on instructions from their pastors …hard to understand ?
Thanks for having me on. Great conversation!
Good discussion Steve!
You'd be the one to interview Alice Cooper and his life in the Bickertonites as a kid. As far as I know, he's never talked about it. He has really identified as a Christian the last 15-20 years as a priority. Maybe he would be open to talk about those years.
@@bradhardisty1652 I'm hoping to book him one day!
Steven is the best. He's so respectful of the restoration and doesn't play gatekeeper of Latter-day Saints' Christianity, like so many Evangelicals do.
Even Jeff from Hello Saints, in his most recent podcast, was unwilling to say Latter-day Saints are Christian, to say that Mormonism is a better alternative to Atheism, or to say that Mormonism is not a cult.
@@MormonBookReviews I appreciate your respect towards members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I also appreciate how you tell it like it is.
I live in Texas... years ago I would have been ruthlessly harassed for being LDS... ever since C19, it seems like folks really don't care about whose religion is next door to them, they just want good people around them. Sometimes, the good Lord puts good people together so His work can get done one way or the other... he sees the broader picture, we just need to do our work. As much as it has hurt to see members leave our church, I also get to experience the joy of seeing people come and join us.
I’m LDS and my best friend in high school is baptist. We had such a good friendship growing up. When she was dating a lds member and wanted him to leave his religion for her. I suggested her taking lessons just to get a better understanding of what we believe so she could understand his beliefs more. Surprisingly, She freaked out yelling at me with all the stuff her pastor had told her over the years. Our friendship wasn’t the same after that. It broke my heart because all the things she said we untrue.
I’m grateful that we don’t spend time picking on other religions in the church. We might talk about differences or similarities of beliefs (very rarely) but we never attack others. It’s sad that so much of her church service growing up was dedicated to bashing lds members and why we are going to hell. Bashing isn’t helping the religious community be united. Understanding the differences and similarities does help us become united.
I had a similar experience. I'm sorry. 😓
This is my experience as well.
I am grateful to all who teach and support the return to the living Christ.
Pynaker, I went to a celebration of Mormon Pioneers in Garden Grove Iowa back around 2000. There were only a couple of members but this little town celebrated Pioneer Day. There school team was called The Pioneers. I don't think there were amy Mormons living there. I lived in Missouri at the time amd was invited. I had dinner with the Iowa Mormon History Association with about 6 people. They were all non members. I knew a few things they didn't but they knew a lot and I learned from them. That was an eye opener that there are people who are not LDS and were excited about Mormon History.
I have more in common with faithful evangelicals than I do with woke members of my own LDS faith. Even this pastor, who I understand is gay, I value more than members of my own faith who are deceptive in their intents. I value differences of belief much more than people who are deceptive or wolves in sheep’s clothing who hide their true intent.
I'm from the east and have no woke members in our branch. Nor in any other ward I lived in. Just how does a woke LDS have deceptive intent? Do they change the doctrine? How many are you talking about? You have left me reeling with questions.
@@edwardgabriel5281 I didn't grow up in Utah, though we're here now. It's rampant. Throwing important bits of the gospel out the window under the guise of "niceness". Instead of being a peculiar people, there is a ton of bending over backwards to be like everyone else and to be liked or approved of by everyone else.
@@edwardgabriel5281 Elder’s quorum instructor advocating for gay temple marriage, member testifying in fast and testimony meeting how racist the Book of Mormon is, member saying in gospel doctrine how the Family Proclamation is a document of hate, a fifth Sunday meeting stating how racist we all are as we need to do more to teach our children black history, how we don’t do enough for illegal immigration, and just this week, how Nephi was wrong and angry at his brothers which explains how he wrote incorrectly about the skin of blackness - that never really happened for starters.
@@markstimson983 I am seriously dumbfounded. I am grateful for the most amazing confirmation I received, at baptism, so that nothing can dent my testimony. I wish everybody could have experienced the same, From 1953 to now, there were quite a few trials of faith, but it persuaded me to persevere. I am also fortunate to have such wonderful, knowledgeable, faithful fellow members who were able to fill in the blanks when they appeared. I am also fortunate that at 95, I have had the time to experience the detractors of our church shooting their firery darts on You Tube and other social media, and survive the exercise. Enduring to the end is the hardest part of living the Gospel. I do believe I will survive. Thanks for your answer.
A progressive member is simply an ex-member who hasn't removed their name from the membership rolls yet.
I am a member of a non denominational Christian fellowship and feel called to introduce "Bible Only" Christians to Another Testament of Jesus Christ (The Book of Mormon).
Great conversation! Thank you for having him.
I do have to say something; the reason why most ex-mos end up becoming Atheists is not necessarily because of the way Evangelicals behave, but it's because the reasoning they use to dismantle our faith will dismantle any faith in a higher power.
This is why I get so ticked with those evangelicals, they want to hold our religion to a standard their own religion wouldn't hold up to. They shoot themselves in the foot and leave people with nothing at the end
Excellent point.
I grew up an evangelical. I later became an atheist for a decade. I then converted to the LDS church 26 years ago. There is a lot of truth to Steven's claims about evangelicals. Evangelicals get a lot of their information about LDS church members off the internet, church library books, and from their pastor. Most evangelicals have little knowledge about the LDS church, and often make claims that are not true. One of the most hurtful things they will say is Mormons are not Christians.
In my mind it is not hurtful but very very sad
This is great. Real Interfaith dialogue will become increasingly important as the world becomes more distant from the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Minute 40...Greg you are NAILING IT!!!! I wish we would talk about this constantly at church. We are so conditioned for results based relationships at times that we miss the beauty of simple friendship, support, fun, and helping people along. Great discussion you guys, really enjoyed it. This IS the Restoration in action.
Evangelical friends, closer than family since before I was born, cut all connections to me when I became a LDS in 1953 at age 25. Not a word since then. I tried hard, They all were engaged as pastors and became leaders in the sect, In all the years since, I have heard nothing but opposition from all evangelicals. Remember, quite some time ago, they came to SLC in force to proselatize LDS there with the argument LDS believe in a different Jesus Christ than the one in the Bible. I would love for them to soften their hearts to us, but it has never gained traction in all these years. 71 years. I can still hear another accusation "we are stealing their flock". There are millions of people on earth who have a belief in Jesus Christ, which makes me happy. God loves all his children whether they barely got through the 6th grade or graduated from an ivy league university. We march to the drumbeat we hear. Some don't hear a drumbeat so they don't march at all. I thank God we live in the USA which still espouses freedom of religion.
Ever since my mission (and like everyone, got trashed daily by Evangelicals), I've always wondered why we get kicked to the curb so badly. We are the natural allies of Evangelicals!! Abortion / traditional marriage / gender / religious liberty... I could go on and on.. It is OK if we do not endorse each other's theology, at least see us as the allies we both need.
AMEN!!!
2:46 I love this. We dont need to agree in order to understand. Understanding is not agreement. Or it doesn't have to be. It can simply be someone taking a moment to see it from the other persons perspective along with their experiences, to at least comprehend why it is that they believe the way they do. This all shouldn't be about controlling others or wining or losing; its about compassion and empathy.
Sometimes I act as the Secretary of State for what I believe and sometimes but not often I’m the Secretary of War.
Knowing when to stand up and defend what I believe is a learned skill, enhanced by the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Mostly I go about life trying to act as The secretary of State for my beliefs.
This moved me. What a kind approach. No one behaves well if they feel disrespected. Thank you.
Me too.
I've been learning a lot about Mormonism, and I am convinced that Mormons knows the Bible and understand the Bible better then Catholics.
Thank you for your kind words.
I know many believers of all Christian faiths including Catholicism who understand the bible well.
I believe the Lord will care more about how we treat one another from what our understanding is.
Anyhow, I appreciate your compliment!
we do have an advantage by having the companion to the bible...the book of mormon.
@@ultimateconcealcarry4671 big facts!
4:08 We actually have a lot of Evangelicals we listen to. David Boice from 52 Churches in 52 Weeks, Red Pen Logic, Ready to Harvest, Tim Mackie on Bible Project, Dallas Jenkins on the Chosen. We actually have a lot of Evangelicals we listen to and learn from.
Please tell me one principle of doctrine you have learned from them. I'm 95 and have listened a lot and I can tell you that LDS doctrine is true, every bit of it.
Love Red Pen Logic! He does well.
Interfaith is important and what you and Steven are doing is great! People in both "camps" still don't understand the gospel fully
I've never heard from Steven before but greatly appreciate his positivity.
Intent speaks volumes and in is clear that both of you are honestly working to build bridges between Evangelical Christians and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Thanks for the very entertaining podcast!
Very enjoyable and interesting conversation. One of your best. 🙏💕😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Ahh, I’m sure Tanners were fine people but they did a lot of damage very much on purpose. Not swallowing that one.
Steven is great, love to hear conversations about different faiths and history. I am married to an LDS but I was raised catholic and do not plan to convert to LDS, but I love your channel Greg and all your episodes.
Thank you! I appreciate that!
Great work Steven and Greg !
I used to think it was an us and them situation, with some exceptions among the people I have interacted with.
The more I get to know the evangelical community, the more I realise it's everyone against everyone. I had plans to reach out and unite LDS, orthodox, evangelical, and non-Christian faith communities against the coming atheist apocalypse, mark of the beast etc.
Unfortunately, what I am noticing is that of all these groups, it's the evangelicals that will be the hardest to unite. It's a great concern to me that there is so much gate-keeping and purity testing - often over small matters that we won't be able to unite as we need to.
Hello Greg Matsen and Steven. Pynakker my name is John and I am both a Evangelical born again Christian and a Mormon convert . I became a born again Christian and then latee on in years I became a LDS convert in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints . After I became a LDS convert in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints I still remained a evangelical born again Christian . As a LDS convert I never abandoned my basic evangelical Christian beliefs. I also have not denied some of the things what I know is true in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. I literally gave up the need to be right. Before I converted in the LDS church I use to be a person that needed to be right. I use to be a fundamentalists evangelical that read all anti Mormon books. I use to pass out Mormon pamplets out. I use to tell LDS people that they were going to hell. I use to tell everyone that they were going to hell. I read every anti Mormon books and I use to go to anti Mormon conferences held by evangelicals. I use to only read everything against latter day saints. I use to be anti Mormon. Anti Jehovah witnesses anti seventh day Adventists. Anti pentecoastal. Anti everything ..I also started reading everything on the oro Mormon side. And I read everything. Pro Adventists pro Jehovah witnesses pro Christian science pro aoolfetics in all demimunatiins. I also was involved in the ex cult movement I use to be exclusive sectarian. I also on the other side I have felt like I'm in the middle of both worlds
Arguing doesn’t get you anywhere. I have a testimony of the LDS church and I don’t need to be saved by the evangelicals or JWs or whoever. I just laugh at them for thinking they need to save me. To me it shows their lack of knowledge 🤷🏼♀️. No need to argue! We can still play in the same sandbox if we don’t agree on religion! But…I have to say I love Jeff Mccullogh (sp?) for his honest and respectful comparison❣️ love his channel👍🏻. Love learning the differences in our religions!
Did you know that the minister that said Alvin is going to hell was actually one that was in the mob who pulled him out of his house when he was sleeping with his baby twins and tarred and feathered him and tried to kill him . Or actually did . There is an account on that you a look up . Anyway this is what kind of a preacher he was. An actual murder who says some else is going to hell. Takes some nerve for a preacher like that to hate so much . Then make judgements . He judged Joseph Smith should be killed . And the attracts continue even now through hate . Why hate ? Who stirs them up against truth ??
Fantastic interview - THANKS GREG & STEVE - - I have a mantra that applies throughout several aspects of life, and that is "Boundaries *not* Barriers" - . . . No boundaries can otherwise become barriers, but barriers are power contests such as bible bashing and so forth and just never result. . . I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and "Christian" is literally and figuratively my middle name - - in case anyone happens to read this - Jesus Christ's name is at the forefront of the church's name as well for a reason and the name of the church is the name that it was given by God. - I really like Bruce R. McConkie's use of the word "Sectarian" as well - to describe what's often called "Mainstream Christianity" - . . . I personally prefer sectarianism.
I love both of you Gary matsen and Steve pynakker I love both of you and I feel the spirit of God from. Both of you. I feel the agape love from both of you. I appreciate both of you
I love you both... way to go with opening interfaith conversations
Thank you so much guys. Interfaith is essential work in any generation. I believe we do not have many years left. Let us all help people to find the right church for them. I have learnt about Islam through listening to you tube cannels and it can be entertaining but mocking other beliefs is not the right way to help people. I have listened to evangelicals pull our church to bits and I am afraid I throw the baby out with the bathwater. I should still watch to learn somethings but I go off them. One thing that evangelicals pick on is in the book of Mormon in which Nephi says" it is by grace that we are saved after all you can do. Evangelicals preach grace only not works and then go preaching every day. My answer I think should be the next part "but by grace so that no man should boast." ❤ to you both from UK
Love this guest!!
Gary matsen and Steve pynakker I relate everything that both of you were sharing.
Go watch the videos that Ward Radio posted today 2/23/24, and it’ll warm your heart. A young man who was one of those evangelicals who preached outside temple square, is now LDS. Go watch his story.
Gary matsen and Steve pynakker I love this video and I'm listening to it over and over because I find this inspiring and I only wish there were other resources that I could go to to talk to oeople like both gart and steve
Hello Gary matsen and Steven pynakkee there is so much that I could relate to from both of you. Both of you have said things that I really feel is true and one thing I have always felt is interfaith. I've always supported interfaith even before I became a LDS convert. There is so much I can't express in both of my worlds. You both are the only ones I could feel I could express how I feel. If I were ri tell sone of my latter day saint friends sime of my evangelical beliefs and feelings some of my LDS friends would criticize me and say I have become a aoistate. If i were to tell some of my evangelical born agaib believers about sins of my beliefs and feelings in the LDS world they would tell me I'm not a Christian and would tell me in giung to hell . I had a lds relative disoen me because I had evangelucal beluefs. I also have had some evangelical vorn again Christians tell me that they can't be around me or tell me I'm going to hell. I've had from both camps tell me don't read this dong read that. I wish there were some people like Gary matsen and steven pynakkee that I could talk to. I'm a inactive member of the LDS church. I'm at a point that I go to anti church including the LDS church. U wish soneone could help me. I have a very strong oersonal relationship.with Jesus Christ as my personal saviour . I'm more about interfaith ad I like being with everyone. I see positive similarities of mormonism and swedenborgians. I have Always been. A swedenborg supporter.
If you are not for me, you are against me.
One thing that can bring all sides together is the risk of religious institutions losing their 501 C3 IRS status. Perhaps a show to talk about what if this happens?
I love conversations like these. I feel like we should be on the same team and celebrate our faith in Jesus Christ. I don't understand why there is so much hate between sects of Christianity. Christ would want us to work together, not against each other.
"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." -John 13:35
He didn't say "By the power of your miracles" or "By the strength of your preaching" or "By your knowledge of the scriptures." Ultimately, Christ's true followers will be identified by showing true, Christlike love for their neighbors. The distinction of who possesses true Christlike love is all the more visible in the midst of persecution, because "even the publicans" love those that love them.
As the world becomes more divisive and more chaotic, I think it will become easier for all those who truly follow Christ to know where to gather.
I enjoyed the isituve energy.
13:25 it’s pure priestcraft. These evangelicals are all about money.
Aaron Shafovaloff is a bully?
48:06
I can't help think that those who struggle with interfaith dialogue are not very secure in their own faith.
I do understand your point, Jerry. I'm all for interfaith dialog. But I'm not 100% convinced that that is what Steven Pynakker is doing. He has mentioned before that he has a ministry. A ministry is quite different than interfaith dialog. He has also stated that evangelicals who criticize him just don't understand what he's doing. Hmm. Most evangelicals understand what interfaith outreach is. Why don't they understand what he's doing? So many latter-day saints are worried about Pastor Jeff's motives, but my concerns are being raised much, much more by Steven. I adore the guy personally. I think he's very likable. But he mentions his wonderful friend John Dehlin every chance he gets and sings Dehlin's praises. Same with the Tanner's. He humble brags quite often. And he drops little nuggets. For instance, saying that Joseph Smith "found a way " to try and make Alvin in heaven. Then, there was the talk about this evangelical who was taking money from people to beat up on the Mormons. Steven says that the thing wrong about that is that nobody knows who the guy even is!! (Not that he's constantly beating up on the church.)
I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. But my caution sensors really are blaring.
This guest still didn't answer the question of what is the purpose or goal of interfaith dialogue. Anyone ?
@@gwengold8154 Well, it is an interfaith dialogue. He's not somebody we should be trying to emulate or learn doctrine from. He's not our leader. If we make him one, then that's something we ought to be worried about. The prophet counseled us last General Conference: "Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust-from prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost, who “will show unto you all things what ye should do.”
If we start listening to Steven or Pastor Jeff more than we do our own prophet or the Holy Spirit, that's a problem. And for many, that is a problem. But it doesn't have to be.
@@itsmorphed6416 Ideally to promote goodwill and understanding and perhaps even work together towards our common interests. Tribalism and isolation leads to animosity and mistrust. At the end of the day we’re all God’s children.
@jerry_phillips different sects of religion is tribalism? What about the freedom to practice and believe what you want without hurting anybody else aka freedom of religion. This is a western value is it not ?
In a world where we need to work together to promote stronger families, and combat the onslaught of evil, why do we care what someone believes about anything other than that there is a higher power who loves His children. AS one example of many, I don't care if someone believes in the trinity when I believe in 3 separate personages. How does that difference affect our friendship or the ability to work together to bring God's love to our children. If each of us made a concerted effort to form an authentic friendship with someone of a different religious background, we could change our communities in remarkable ways.
"Gatekeeper Calvinist" well said! That will join the lexicon right along with David Alexander's term "accusatory fog."
There is a Baptist minister in Independence, Missouri, who uses the Book of Mormon in his sermons in a positive way alongside the Bible. I think you should have him on your program.
right now its a luxury for those who want to nit pick over diff doctrines of diff religions...while real evil is destroying all Christian religions from within. the day will come when all who have a belief in God will be forced to band together to fight the real enemy.
my question to the evangelicals is this...what are you trying to save the latter-day saints from? they live a higher law than evangelicals. most evangelicals are not capable of living the higher law....and yet they think they are going to save the saints from what...doing to much good while celebrating Christ's restored church? its laughable
David Boyle on "52 Churches" is another Protestant who doesn't dismiss us.
41:50 School kid experiences.
Me too.
Thanks!
You're welcome and thank you!
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but it was I interesting learning there is a bit of a riff between Steven and Mormon Research Ministry. I interviewed Eric Johnson on my podcast. He seemed more than willing to have interfaith dialogue...
33:30 we can be Restoration Christians
I love evangelicals. I despise the counter-cult faction of evangelicism.
He loves the restoration and the Book of Mormon though not a member of. He is very sweet guy .
I think Pynaker is the only one to talk about his family in the Bickertonites, growing up in the church until his family moved to Arizona.. He's got to have some insight on his own story that would be fun.
He once said the Mormon church saved his life . Could he explain what he means by that ? Thanks .
You could look up Steven's appearance on Saints unscripted. He talks about it there. In a nutshell, he was very depressed and lost interest in almost everything. Had he continued down that path, he might have been suicidal. But he remained very interested in learning about "mormonism," and it pulled him through the depression.
I’d bet money Allie Beth Stuckey is one of the ppl attacking him
Please, the Tanners were responsible for "The God Makers" nothing neutral about them.
I can’t believe people still take that movie seriously.
Yes, I don’t have the same view on this as Steven.
FYI, the Tanner's would later renounce Ed Decker creator of the God Makers.
@@CwicShowgood to know. Steven is not completely objective when it comes to lds theology.
@@davidchoate512 Of course not. But you are straining at gnats.
Great stuff ❤
He is a interesting guy. Watched a lot of his videos.
I really like this channel, but I feel like we are all open arms with these people to the point where their niceness is the most important thing. He says Joseph being a true prophet is a point of view..... He says that the church changed his life, but he didn't join.... come on. Now the hello saints guy wants to merge LDS wards into his faith; he surely isn't going to merge into an LDS ward. I bet he would love the LDS tithes though. BTW I really love and Respect this channel.
Alice Cooper, Pynaker, Life with the Bickertonites
I love Steve! @10:40 Go Steve!
I know I have the truth. I know the church is true. I also know that they Crucified Jesus and killed the prophets. Truth is not popular with many...But I will proclaim it and testify of this Church, and of Christ and at the same time pray that their hearts will soften. I know I am right, but I can't PROVE it. It is up to the Holy Ghost to testify to their hearts of the truth, and it is up to THEM to soften their hearts to HEAR HIM.
I love your work so much and I think here it was very evident where Evangelical circuit break on the merits whenever he interrupted you about the niacin Creed.
In my opinion evangelicals fail on the merits every time and all the standards they have are "of the world".
The idea that the niacin Creed has standing spiritually speaking because of who it was adjudicated by as man, but then therafter not Joseph Smith makes no sense.
Especially when you go over the old adage of two brains better than three.
On the 2nd that I think just fails on its face is their neo-zionist materialist third Temple ideology so that Jews May sacrifice animals and that somehow that prompts a second coming of Christ and for that reason they cheer on genocide.
It seems absolutely ridiculous to me cubed.
What in the gospels would suggest that and what about genocide and sacrificing animals is good news and on that ground, on what merits do they call themselves Christian or anything in the image of Christ?
Evengelism to me seems like some contemporary feel docket to pacify the cravings of natural man in Christian language to what is otherwise etymologically materially "Satanism" on the merits.
Whatever happened to that meeting he went to for the church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints ? Did he post it yet ?
Greg can you tell me what night you will be speaking at the Firm Foundations Conference in Sandy Utah?
I am conducting a special forum on Friday afternoon from 2-4 pm where I will also give a few words on the topic of scholar Margaret Barker and the conditions of Jerusalem at the time of Lehi.
I have two talks, 1) Friday night at 6:00-6:45 pm and Saturday morning at 10:00-10:45 am.
Thank you Greg!@@CwicShow
Toxic masculinity . This is a clue to this guys world voew 😅
Gary matsen and Steve pynakker this exclusive sectstian toxic behavior of bashing each other based on demonizing bullying. Is not uplifting. At all.
LDS apostles have taught that Jesus came to earth to work out HIS OWN salvation , and that LDS church members should NOT have a personal relationship with Jesus . “ Now I know that some may be offended at the counsel that they should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ.“
“Our Relationship with the Lord “ by BRUCE R. MCCONKIE
of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles March 2.1982