Building the ultimate Force Feedback Flightstick
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2017
- Music by Goodstreet.
Parts / tools:
MS Sidewinder Force Feedback 2
TM TopGun / X-fighter or any other Joystick that suits you.
Carbon Pipe (inner diameter 14mm)
plastic pipe / sheet
2-Pin switch
8 1OHM SMD resistors
glue
Phillips screw driver
knife
wire cutter
multimeter
soldering iron
soldering pump
solder
shrinking tube 
Игры
Thanks very much for this guide. Just got my own Frankenstick working today!
Hi Viktor, I found your RUclips channel through your Mi-24p landing tutorials and I am amazed with quality of your training videos. I just recently got into DCS and helicopter. I like Mi-24p but I really love Mi-8. I got same joystick (different grip) from you couple of years ago. I kept it in the closet for a while and only recently, about a year ago I started using it. I am very happy with it, you did a great job. Apart from maybe having more buttons on the grip (I would love Warthogs F-18 grip on it) it is everything I ever wanted from a FFB joystick. Thanks again, I hope you will get satisfaction from hearing that I enjoy and love you creation. I will be lost without it if it ever breaks. Cheers, Banzai.
Hey Banzai! Wow, that's great news! Yes, it does indeed make me happy and a little bit proud! Glad you still enjoy it! I'm sure it will never break. :)
Great job. I did something similar but designed and 3D printed the B8 grip. I have now ordered a TM Top Gun stick to do a second better quality conversion.
Excellent work
Have completed the project, all is great!!! Can't be happier that you put this video together. I didn't do the motors on steroids yet nor shave (dremel) the stick base down and do the notch, but everything else we have complete. Getting quite a bit of force feedback as it is now but will try mod on a different unit and then swap boards. Im going to get a better soldering iron first. THANKS AGAIN!!!
Hi Dabney! That sounds great! I'm glad I could help. Enjoy!
@@virtualflighttraining9694 I have now perfected the unit with the SMD's motherboard swap. WOW, the amount of additional FF is crazy. It shakes the stand I have it on (just a fishing tackle box and a cardboard box stacked on top of each other). I'm going to have to get a more sturdy stand. QUESTiON for you: I don't seem to be able to get any force feedback in DCS for the HUEY, just resistance is working. Is there any way to get FF on the Huey? It works for the Spitfire and some other planes but I was really hoping to get FF on the Helicopters.
Awesome instruction!
Great video, I am doing the same thing with a joystick I just got from Ebay.
great Idea.
This is AWESOME!! I have 4 of these sticks and would love to do this, BUT I know I would mess this up one way or another!!
Well, you've got three sticks to mess it up. The fourth will be perfect! :D
Thanks Victor, this video has been invaluable. I added a 450mm extension for a helicopter cyclic and it works perfectly. The B8 grip Is much nicer to use.
Hi Ally! That's really great to hear! Enjoy your new DIY hardware! :)
@@virtualflighttraining9694 what's a B8 grip? is the TOP-GUN a B8? the reason I'm asking you is that i got a top-gun but once i took it apart, some of the base screws just fell out because the plastic screw mounts were brittle and just broke. If the B8 is better?, what brand should i look for on eBay? Or if the Top-Gun is a B8 and since it was brittle and broke apart, what unit could i get for fairly cheap to use as my cyclic grip?
@@dabneyoffermein595 Hey. B-8 is the name of the grip type in real world aviation. There are several ones you can get - most of which were made by Thrustmaster. I've used the TopGun and the X-Fighter. Never had trouble with plastic being brittle. Maybe you were just unlucky with that one.
@@virtualflighttraining9694
Thank you for this informative joystick extension. I have a MS FF joystick and just want to extend the stick by 100mm
Would it be okay just to cut and all extra lengths of wire and would that suffice, or would that add "electrical resistance" to the system.
Thank you. Peter
@@peterweir3861 Hi Peter. As far as I understand you want to cut excess wire? Yes, you can do that.
Thanks a lot for this video. It looks great and durable. I'm about to start building mine but with Suncom f-15 grip. I know it will be very challenging but I have to try :D. Extension is not a problem as I have done it already and it works well. I have also reused a twist pot and place higher inside the grip so I use it as a brake ( with thumb) mostly in Russian planes :) Wish me good luck :D
Hey Lu Kre! Sounds great. I'd love to see the final product! Great idea, reusing the potentiometer!
Long way to final stage but first steps has been done :D still researching. Unfortunately can't find anything about MSSW FFB2 + Suncom f-15 grip combo. Also the idea of reusing the pot is not mine.I have seen a picture of LEGO rubber wheel as a rotary knob sticking out from the side of msswffb2 :). In fact in the end I personalised the concept. Thanks again for sharing your work ( not just on YT ) It is a massive help for others and very inspiring!
So take a Sidewinder 2 and change the stick to that of a Thrustmaster one. Wow.
yes please!
I have successfully completed this mod. It took me about 18 hours but I never soldered and I had to buy the equipment. It works. But there is some stuff left out of the video that people should know. Everyone should buy extra 28 AWG wire because there is not enough wires to complete this project on it's own. Also your wire length is important cause once I was done I realized my wires were too long and barely could get the hand grip shut. Be careful with your wire length. Buy a really good soldering sucker, the cheapo generic ones are awful, get one with a replaceable silicone tip that doesn't burn so you can put it over the soldering iron while the solder is hot, much more effective. Buy some helping hands to hold your stuff cause it's near impossible without something to hold the wires or boards. Every step of the way I tested the continuity of the buttons with a multimeter instead of taping the wires to the base of the stick and testing it on the computer so I made sure everything worked every step of the way. Overall I spent probably over 200 dollars or more on the equipment to do this and the joysticks so this should be done for fun unless you already have all this type of stuff laying around cause it's gonna cost you some crash, though I bought a actual soldering station and decent equipment, not cheap stuff. I was planning on getting into soldering as a hobby anyways so I plan on using my equipment a lot and have repaired several electronics with my station thus paying myself back in free repairs. Good luck to everyone.
Hey. Thank you for the feedback! I'm glad it worked out and you have a nice new FFB flight stick! I have simply re-used wires from the Thrustmaster Topgun base. Buying a multimeter, a "third hand" and expensive soldering equipment is really helpful - but not required for this mod. Those additional items might even scare people away from trying this mod. So I thought - keep it simple! Of course, if think that this could become your new hobby - then it's worth investing.
can we just remove the msffb's grip and place b8 right away by connecting cables? do we really need to remove the board of the hat switch?
Hey. No, you can't just connect the cables. On the MS FFB2 stick several buttons share one cable. That is achieved by using resistors, which are part of the grip board. Hope this helps.
Force feedback would be awesome but this looks like some risky business
Great video. I would like to do this with my old MS FFb2 & CH Combat stick. Perhaps, you might be interested in doing a video creating a frankenstick using these two sticks? I can't use rudder peddles, so the twisty (yaw) stick is a bonus for me.
Hello Heinz. It's possible and I have done it already. The CH combat stick has more buttons than the B8 grip - so you will have to use a Teensy board.
@@virtualflighttraining9694 Thanks for replying. I'm not an electronic guru, so I'm at a loss when you mention adding a Teensy board. I googled the board and it looks intimidating for a novice like myself. Is there a way we can communicate in greater detail? I would appreciate your advise in combining my Combat/MS-FFB. To be clear, I want to keep the FFB and yaw of the MS, but have the ability to program the stick using CH manager.
@@JV44HeinzBar Heinz, I've sent you a message on the IL-2 Forum!
@@virtualflighttraining9694 I'll send you a reply...Thanks for your time.
Hello again!
I’m having another go at soldering resistors after picking up a spare ffb2 to fall back on if it goes bad.
I soldered yesterday and it went well and neatly (using fine tip iron and magnifying glasses - much easier)
All working fine apart from squealing noise when stick pushed forwards, left / right and back all good. I know this means that one of the resistors is poorly soldered / fitted but which one?
Do you know which resistor corresponds to each input movement on the stick please?
Thanks 👍
Hi mate - fantastic video.
Do you expect to see a lower life of the motors with the increased power of them?
Thanks
Ollie
Hey Ollie. I'm not at all an expert in electronics. The motors will probably have a shorter life. But so far there has only been positive feedback from people who have been using this modded stick for a while.
That’s a nice tutorial. How’s that collective stick coming along? Can’t wait to see your ideas taking shape.
Hey Jan! Thank you. I have just started a new job and don't have any time to build the collective. The parts however are ready! In autumn or winter I will get started with it.
You didn't show it actually working.
Looks like I’m murdering my ch fighter stick this afternoon and my ff2 then :)
Sounds great. Enjoy the butchering. To make use of all CH grip buttons, you'll have to use a controller board, such as a Teensy. Be sure to check it out!
Did you do the conversion? If yes, how'd it go?
This is the best joystick ever made. I'm disabled and have very limited strength. Spring joysticks are not a option for me. I once found on a forum someone made a small piece of software to adjust the force settings in windows 7 up. I've lost it!! :( Absolutely gutted. If anyone has this or similar please, I beg, let me know.
i think you're referring to a small program called simffb.
Here is a website that has SimFFB. You can still download it and get back to flying if you haven't already.
swat-portal.com/forum/filebase/file/1104-simffb/
why do some sidewinder II stick bases have see-through half-bases? I see a couple different varients of the sidewinder 2 on eBay or no?
Iam trying to make one for my electric wheelchair
could you possibly share a link to the right resistors? i know nothing about resistors and whenever i look for these things i get so many options, im going to end up buying the wrong ones knowing me,.
I bought these 1106 resistors, I'm guessing the 1800 number on it is the resistance? Any benefit to putting a higher number on it? I have a bag full of different numbers
I usually fly my "Huey" with Trim off. So, do I need to add the resistors at all? Have you experienced with counterweights, too? Sau geil jedenfalls!!!! :D
Btw: that bridge on switch 2 has something to do with the ground, I guess? I currently try to find out, how it would work with a CH Combatstick. The CH´s wiring is total logical to me and my multimeter, but I have some trouble to find the common ground of the FFB2
Hey Frama. You can try it without adding resistors. If it's ok for you - keep it like that. If not you can still change it easily. And don't forget SimFFB for the dampening effect.
I haven't tried counterweights yet - I guess that's only necessary when using a heavy grip or really long extensions. Then again, it should be quite easy to do.
Are you using a teensy board for the ch grip? If you can't solve your problems you can simply rewire all of the buttons and use that board.
I tried this mod, when I press a button on the B8 grip it also activates one of the HAT buttons, if I press a HAT direction it is ok except for up which also triggers another button. I wired it the same as you did in the video. Funny thing is I'm pretty sure it all worked fine once then after fixing some solders it plays up.
Hey. Yeah, I know what that is like. It's all about testing your buttons after soldering.
Virtual Flight Training I’ve tested them one by one now and it still happens. I wonder if the little resistors on the board are easily heat damaged so aren’t working now.
@@quinnyrethus I'm not an electronics expert. But I'd really rather suspect wrong or bad soldering. At least that was my most common mistake. If you can't at all fix the problem, try replacing the resistors or get a Teensy 2.0 to use for the grip.
Virtual Flight Training yeah I’ll check the resistors as my soldering looked fine. The HAT buttons still work normally so I may just run the other button wires down to the 4 buttons in the base and use them. I don’t use those as I’m custom building a new base with oil dampers to make it feel more hydraulic like a real helicopter.
@@quinnyrethus Great. Please share your project. I am working on one with springs, hydraulic dampers, magnetic brakes and real helicopter stick and collective too! Will share when finished.
Great!
btw, how do you enable Force Feedback in X-Plane? Thx
I've never seen a setting for that EDIT: x-plane does account for force-feedback
Hello again Victor! Just a quick question please….
My stick is still going strong 👍. Have you ever tried adding more resistors to the board? Would adding another to each stack strengthen the ffb effect? I could not IL2 without my ffb stick ❤
Thanks
Forgot to say, I found the nerve to do the solder mod on my new stick - went fine. Also picked up another cheap spare stick!
Hey Viktor. Do you have any of these joysticks for sale nowdays?
when I move the stick to the left it makes a high pitch electronic noise, like a frequency noise. like it's almost a whining high pitch of a frequency and changes pitch with additional motion , but it 's only doing it to the left , all other positions (directions) it doesn't make the noise. Could it be the solder joints of the SMD's just on that one axis? or too much power to the motor? hard to say what would produce that noise, it's almost like a speaker in there producing that warble ...any help is appreciated !!!
Hi Dabney. Yes, it's usually a sign of a bad solder connection.
Great video! Thank you! Did you dislike the original stick?
I wanted a longer stick with a better grip. The original, of course is great as well!
Hi nice tutorial.
I’m wondering if is it really worth it to change the resistors?
it vibrates good enough without the change in my opinion. but WITH the change, it's crazy , it vibrates the box i have it sitting on to the point where i had to turn down the intensity in DCS in the bindings. DCS has separate settings just for Force Feedback. But you have to try with the mod because it brings in more immersion. Frankly, I wish the Huey in DCS had FF because it would be awesome but the programmers did not incorporate that into it.
great video! but how you control your throttle and collective?
Hi Edu. Sorry for the late response. For now I use a warthog throttle for the collective. However I'm working on a different solution that I will present once it's finished.
Any chance you could share with us the Win7 x64 and Win10 drivers for MS Sidewinder Force Feedback 2, please.
Hi Aintill. I didn't have to install any drivers with Win7 x64. It should work plug and play.
So the buttons work, there's contact on the board (multimeter beeps), but won't work when I plug it in :( I tried it with that connection "using the silver wire" part, I even used a regular wire, tried it without it, nothing seems to work as far as buttons go
I have to idea to do the same but i have doubt about wich swd FF use version 1 gameport but optical sensor or ffb2 Who is usb but pot technologie so May be less précise and can be dead over time... What do you think ?
As far as I know, the gameport version will not have working FFB if you use an adapter. So go for USB.
I forgot to ask you how are you connecting it to the computer are you using an adaptor gameport to USB or something else
Would it by hypothetically possible to add an X-55 stick and then add the extra buttons it has to be compatible?
My plan is to do this with my x52 but will need to have the board from the 52 somewhere. So will probably mount the 52 base under ffb2 base
Also does the force feedback work in xplane 11? Thanks!
Yes, it works perfectly in Xplane. I use it with the Bell 406, which is a fantastic little chopper!
Does MS FFB 2 go limp once the game starts? For some reason my MS FFB2 goes limp in-game and once I exit the game it centers but not during the game,
Hello Viktor, I made a Force Feedback modified following that video. I have just a problem cause the force feedback is not working, I don't understand something. Everything is working well (forces and buttons in the grip). I have connected the grey and white cables for the switch which activate the motors. But you speak about cables violet, black and dark red which we can cut.
I found the purple, the black, but which one is the dark red ?
On your video, I can see the purple and the black cut, but not the dark red. Then I saw two large cables red and black which are terminated by a (visibly) unconnected connector, is it these ones ?
If necessary, I can send you photos if you can help (I need an email).
Thanks for your tutorial,
Marc
Hi Marc! Sorry for the late response. If you still need help, find me on Discord: Crow#1585
Hi mate - what was the rating of the switch you used for the ir sensor?
Hey. I used a 12V 6A mini switch.
Hi. Great work. I did the same in my ms sidewinder 2 ffb and it works fine, but know I have an extrange noise when I move joystick in Y axis, but only when un move forward (nose down). What could it be? Thanks!
Hi Raul. Thank you! When I started modding I had something similar. I found one of the resistors to be badly soldered. I resoldered it and it was gone. Maybe that's the reason. Let me know!
Virtual Flight Training thanks will check it!
@@virtualflighttraining9694 You were right! A fixed it desoldering and soldering a couple of resistor. Thanks a lot.
@@rglasinovic Glad I could help!
did all that and no video of it in action?
Thanks for the video! Just one question. What is the purpose of bridging SW2?
Hey Shawsie. In the original SW FFB2 it was bridged as well. If you test it with a multimeter, you will see it.
Virtual Flight Training ah ok I see.. I've just completed my stick thank you for the informative video it was a huge help to me
That's so cool! Would you post some pictures?
does the corner bridge wire meet the blue wire on that same corner? which side of the board did you bridge on. in the pictures (video) , i don't see the bridge completed at all....just the two blue wires going to a button. thx
Hey, thanks for doing this. That was a great video. I just won an eBay bid for a CH Force FX joystick. Looking forward to modding it out. What games do you play with force feedback?
Colin Smith He mentioned Dcs and IL2 Great battles at the beginning at the vidéo if it helps you :)
Those are ultra rare and there are no modern drivers for it
How is this joystick holding up to the increased current to the motors? Is it still alive?
I have one of these force feedback joysticks and I'm itching to use it to control a robot. I just haven't figured out what sort of robot would benefit from force feedback. It's a solution looking for a problem.
Thanks for sharing your work with us.
The stick a built in that video is still going strong! So are 5 other sticks I have modded. No signs of wear so far. Hope that helps!
@@virtualflighttraining9694 Great to hear the higher current didn't burn out anything. Thanks for the update.
@@ddegn the original was governed by high resistance, so the motors were not seeing their potential
@@dabneyoffermein595 I hope you are correct. It just doesn't seem like Microsoft to use motors more powerful than needed. I would have thought they'd use the cheapest motors they thought they could get away with.
@@ddegn i'm not going by personal experience, something i read, i believe it was on AVSim. don't know if i could find it again but might, i'll try. That was a very popular stick for a long time so there is a lot written on it.
at 06:23 regarding SW2, you have red circled this and you show a yellow jumper between two connections, but subsequent pictures do not show you having a jumper wire on SW2 but only show two blue wires on one side of SW2. Is that jumper wire in yellow with the red circle around it at 06:23 a mistake? Thanks for any help with that, Im right at the stage where i need to either keep a jumper there or remove back off and get the blue wires on SW2. THANKS AGAIN
Hi! You need to add the jumper. It's not visible on the subsequent photos, because I have placed it on the other side of the pcb.
@@virtualflighttraining9694 ok, so i already have the jumper on the top side , should i put the two blue wires on the opposite two holes or is it ok to share that corner ?
@@dabneyoffermein595 It does not matter on which side of the PCB the jumper or the cables are placed.
@@virtualflighttraining9694 your help with this is much appreciated !!! we are making great progress now and able to continue this cool project thanks to your responses!
Won't motors burn out because of increased voltage?
I have been using mine now for several months and everything is fine. Other users reported the same.
would a TOPGUN Platinum work? and a sidewinder II "Precision" ?? for this project? EDIT: oh wait , i bet the "Precision" is not force feedback.
Hey! I'm sure the "Platinum" will word. As for the Sidewinder: You'll need the "Sidewinder Force Feedback 2" - "Precision" is non force feedback, as you have already found out.
Hi mate, great job yours. Let me know all resistors must be replaced by 10 Ohm smd resistors isn´t??
Or 1 Ohm smd resistors...what kind of pads standard are required?
SMD 1. 2 ohm 1R2 0402
i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OOQAAOSwLnBX6Q6t/s-l1600.jpg
@@ignacioherrero9374 Hey Ignacio. It's 1 ohm. Go for the 1206. :)
@@virtualflighttraining9694 Thx, for the quick response. I purchased those resistors it´s corretct? rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11400.m43.l5919/7?euid=f93ad7849e9149fe957c4482b24fa25a&bu=43130829161&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.es%2Fulk%2Fvod%3Fitemid%3D192921675917%26transid%3D1636686153009&sojTags=bu=bu
This is great but the latest windows 10-11 OS does not support force feed back dammit 😫
I bought some 0805 smd but I think I better go with 1206. Anybody can confirm?
WHY CANT THIS BE A REAL THING!
Can anyone ever involved in doing this mod let me know if 1 OHM (1RO) SMD/SMT 0805 resisters (Bourns) are OK to use for the resister add-ons? I ordered them off of eBay and it was the closest I could find in the description. If I got the wrong thing, could someone kindly direct me to the right ones and thank you so much !!!!
Hey. 1 Ohm is correct. I have used the 1206. The 0805 seems to be a bit smaller in size but might still work.
@@virtualflighttraining9694 oh crud, ok.... i will look for the 1206, didnt see em n-e-where
Why not longer?
The force of the FFB mechanism would probably be to weak if this stick was longer. Now it feels just right. I use it between my legs with a cardboard box beneath it - works really well.
Virtual Flight Training can you make a video who you stick stands?
It's really just a cardboard box, that raises the stick's base about 30 cm. Nothing fancy about it. I didn't even fix the unit to the box. Probably not worth a video. :)
Help please! Did my mod, was all working fine but now i have a squealing noise when stick pushed fwd & no Force When Pulled Back?any Ides Please?
Hi Simon. It could be your soldering connections. Please check them and try re-soldering the resistors.
Thanks, excellent video by the way! My stick was working well for a few days, very pleased with it. Putting a flight sim setup together, inspired by your stick mod. Managed to keep the ms grip with rotation (on a bit of a budget) check out my utube video ‘TWCS throttle judder’. Thanks again, will re solder resistors.
@@simon069d9 Nice video, Simon! Thumbs up. I hope the fix works out! I have modded quite a few about 3 years ago and they all still run fine. I hope yours will do good again after resoldering. Please give me feedback on that.
Thanks for your help and kind comments, more smd’s on the way, will let you know 👍
Hello again, aaargh! Not good! Been looking again at my circuit board and can see that something looks burnt out. The smd resistors are split into two groups of 4, the left 4 are Y axis, the right are X axis. Below each group there are 2 8 pin integrated circuit chips marked IC 3004. The right hand one on the Y axis has a tiny hard bubble on the surface which scratched off powdery like a carbon deposit. The others are smooth and shiny. This makes sense as it is the Y axis that went wrong. I think I know why it went, nothing to do with your mod. I plugged all my peripherals into a 6 port usb hub, the stick worked for a couple of minutes and then I noticed a faint burning smell. The power light on the stick had gone from steady on to flashing. A reboot saw the stick back online after plugging it directly into a pc USB port but the Y axis is now defective. I did take ALL the resistors off and soldered just the standard 8 back on - still the same. The usb hub must have disagreed somehow with powering the stick as it was working well in its own port?
I can’t go back to a non FF stick after modding it! I’m just going to have to buy another stick and swap the boards over!
Cautionary tale! Don’t load up a hub with too much stuff 😢
why i sold my MS sidewinder joystick whhyyy.... thx God i got Logitech G940
Are you able to mod one for me? Will pay for this ofcourse.
Hello Kindhawk. Let me know how to contact you.
@@virtualflighttraining9694 I can give you email/discord/skype? Whatever suits best.
@@KindhawkGaming Email would be good!
@@KindhawkGaming thank you. Got it.
@@virtualflighttraining9694 Okay Great. I'll keep an eye out for an email.
And i was going to drop 200 dollars on a warthog.. Fuck that sign me up for this, i'm just waiting for a chinese company who doesn't care about patent infringement to actually design a new force feedback stick. What would it take to upgrade these motors to PWM motors?
Hi Viktor, do you still mod this Microsoft stick for pilots? If so, please accept my friend request on Discord. Kind regards, RD.