“Where did you get this land? From my father. Where did he get it? From his father. Where did he get it? He fought for it. I’ll fight you for it.” -Scandinavian proverb. Not an endorsement of any particular ideology, just an observation about human nature.
I mean, so long as you don't lie to yourself and treat the ordeal like a big ass duel, it's really about as simple and efficient as you can make a conquest. 1 big fight, man to man, winner takes all.
"As we have conquered you for no less a noble cause" The fact he can say it and still point out the hypocrisy and similarity between them makes me respect him.
He knew what their primary mission there was. He wasn't self-delusional like most then. You generally don't reach the rank of Colonel back then by being an idealist, or deluding yourself
It’s not hypocrisy. He’s saying it belongs to whoever can claim and defend it. If you lose, it’s not yours anymore. The hypocrisy is “indigenous” people always invoking some spiritual or holy right to a place as soon as they face a superior enemy.
@@kjf729 What gave the white people the right to land here and then say all your shit is now ours, move to a reservation and accept you fate as our slaves?
I'm an Apache, and no other tribe caused as much terror among white settlers as mine did. My ancestors raided Spanish, Mexican and American settlers, and were known to sadistically torture prisoners including women and children. They also preyed on neighboring tribes till we were in turn defeated by the Comanche, and wound up having to make peace with the Spaniards or risk being wiped out completely. In short my people were far from peaceable, and I dislike it when white people with no knowledge of my people's history portray us as helpless victims. My people were akin to Vikings, tough and merciless raiders who lived by the proverbial sword, and died by it, too.
@@MichaelWilliams-fl4hx You should look up the history of the native americans fighting with the us especially the world wars. They have done a lot for america.
Play this entire scene could be switched out with two groups anywhere in the world and it's exactly the same. People complaining about colonizers are pseudo historians. They know nothing about human civilization and the constant way it repeats.. there is no evil that is unique to One race or one empire or one continent or one military force. It's all just different shades of the same color
Misses a couple of very key components: The scale of Western violence, whereby Europe by this point had seen almost uninterrupted violence compared to on and off struggles in most of the rest of the world, leading to a scaling up of technology, destruction, and justifications for war. Also missed is the fact that Western Enlightenment and humanist values should have led to a greater appreciation for humanity and less ethnic essentialism when it came to declaring people barbars or savages. A people with such an opportunity to reflect on a rich written history has a greater obligation and responsibility to do better, even if it were true that Native Americans had participated in conquest at anywhere near the rate of Europeans.
@@VesperAegis The various AMerican Indian nations fought each other for millennia, and when the palefaces came certain nations happily allied with them because they feared their enemies more. And the old feuds are not at all dead.
One thing that makes this scene even better is that the Colonel even says “you conquered those tribes, lusting for their game, and their lands and we have conquered you for no less noble a cause” he knows he’s doing exactly what they did and is willing to admit it unlike some who pretended they were on some mission of righteousness
@@TheChadPadsure thing. Imposing your beliefs and culture on other people's isn't righteous. But then again, if you think that your ways are the correct ones, then you likely think that imposing your beliefs on others is the righteous thing to do.
I'm surprised to see such historical accuracy. All the land that the Sioux claimed had been theirs was actually "stolen" from the Crow and others just a hundred years or so earlier. It's rare to see that acknowledged.
Comanches raided Mexico and the Southwest for 400 years and killed more Native Americans than the White man. Think about it you Socialists! Indians were winning up until the 1870-1887 and then we put them on reservations. Comanches killed everyone except young boys and sex women slaves. They were PIRATES of the prairies , never farmed, never made camps , just raided from place to place.
I always found it Ironic that 1776 was not only when the USA declared independence and fought a war with Britan but was also the year the Lakota conquered the Black Hills from the Cheyenne confederation which also was the Year my Ojibwe ancestors were mopping up after conquering the Lakota lands in Minnesota.
Here is an example of your logic: Some Jews in Nazi Germany betrayed other Jews, which resulted in their being exterminated in concentration camps. What happen to the Jews is OK because not all Jews were honorable." What happened to the Sioux is not "OK" because of what the Sioux did a hundred years earlier.
@@edmis90 Colonel Miles and Sitting Bull's conversation does seem to to be made for a movie. Coalesce out of the ether and for no less a noble cause are great lines but I would think somewhat confusing for non native English speakers.
@@edmis90 Nelson Miles was a highly educated man, and would have studied philosophy. Miles was one of the few American Generals who did not attend the West Point Military Academy, yet rose to high rank to command the entire U.S. Army. Miles rose thru the ranks on merit alone, showing that Miles could self-educate and learn in areas he had no previous education or experience. Miles is an interesting guy, to say the least!
See people cheering for Nelson Miles and he is not wrong in his assertions but for me the best part is that he is not claiming any moral high ground and is treating Sitting Bull as an equal.
@@Wasserkaktus I just read up on the guy, he was an excellent officer, made it from Lieutenant to brevet general in 2 years during the civil war. Ended up commanding the entire US Army and was made governor of Puerto Rico. He was an incredible man, first time I have ever heard of him.
@@Wasserkaktus It is a sad truth that generals are frequently famous because they are self-promoters. It isn't ALWAYS true, but one reason everybody remembers Custer (besides that fact that he got spectacularly killed) and not Miles, or Sheridan, etc is that Custer was a flamboyant self-promoter who liked to talk to reporters, who rightly or wrongly are the modern scribes of history.
Treating? who ended up losing everything? Miles knew that the plague of European life was coming and Sitting Bull had no chance...moral high ground??? from a EUROPEAN colonizer source/people? It will never happen! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Especially seeing how Nazis would create concentration camps from the model of concentration camps used against Black citizens after the civil war!! THERE WAS NEVER ANY MORAL HIGH GROUND TO BE MENTIONED...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahaha!!!
Nelson miles was a formidable man. He fought in nearly every major engagement with the Army of the Potomac during the civil war, from the peninsula to appomattox and rose to the rank of a major general before reverting back to his nominal rank post-war. The horrors he no doubt witnessed hardened this life long warrior. He eventually became general in chief of the entire us armed forces later in his life. This meeting between two great warriors must have been something indeed.
Yeah but we've known that for a long, long time. Even Miles knew it. When people NOW say things like "reeee the American Indians weren't peaceful", it causes others to roll their eyes.
@@kingstarscream3807 It causes people who don't want to know history to roll their eyes. If you went to most public schools and were taught for 13 years that America was a peaceful, loving continent for 10,000 years before any Europeans showed up, then you will definitely roll your eyes.
@@erc9468 no everyone knows this. It's more propaganda from alt right people. Same as suggesting slavery wasn't an important factor during the Civil War. The bastardization of history from people who demand to see themselves as heroes when they performed the actions of villains.
The conquered never see it that way though. It is their lot to moan and cry about what happened to them, but they will never shed a tear for what they did to others!
@@sagatuppercut2960 well, in this case, the side that has the superior weaponry are the natives. And the US didnt exactly have available reinforcements at the ready.
Same with Africa. Race has nothing to do with conquering land. It is the way of all mankind. And if a nation doesn’t have an enemy to fight then they fight with their own people.
I always wonder why folk forget that, its literally human nature as a whole to dominate and eventually spread chaos and torment cuz peace drives men insane due to boredom
I really appreciate the historical accuracy of the natives being armed with lever action repeaters, while the cav are all using outdated trap door Spencer’s. This was one of the most interesting aspect of the Indian wars, where the natives were armed much better than the Cavalry army units sent to push them into reservations. Quality movie
Really repeaters were more trouble than they were worth. There's a reason the mainstay of the US arm was simple bolt actions for a century and kept using tried and true springfields during the indian wars.
Except for the fact that tribe doesn't fight and k*ll tribe anymore. They have real medicine for their sick, rather than a wrinkly old man with an animal scrotum filled with magic sand. And let's not forget all the US government's hand outs to sustain
Yep. There is not moral high ground. Not one country, culture, ethnic group etc. is currently occupying their original homeland. We all took it from someone else with blood
The scene literally shows that humans don't behave the same. The Indians were pure emotion, void of all reason, couldn't back up their claims, and got violent because of words. Typical of lesser civilizations. No wonder they lost.
Too many lies become accepted as fact and public schools are to blame. Sad that some people still believe that smallpox blankets were used as a biological weapon more than a century before Louis Pasteur would develop germ theory.
@@smokingcrab2290thank u... beautiful statement man. Research the solutreans the real natives the first Americans the European tribes that were geonicided by the so called natives. (Due to inferior numbers)
When people claim the natives Americans where all peace pipe smoking hippies they are actually being massively disrespectful as many of the tribal nations were highly skilled and capable warriors who took pride in that.
@@ricknelmsa lot of curriculums address the indigenous tribes accordingly. My native American studies class in college didn't cover a single instance of warfare between the tribes. Despite the fact that it happened very frequently
@@joeberger3441 unfortunately they are not united or at least have a leader for them to stay united together. Otherwise the western expansion by the USA will be challenging
Counting coup was so strange to me but actually seems hilarious when I think about it now. Imagine a mighty warrior getting caught off guard not killed just shown he could’ve been killed then his enemy just walking away grinning from ear to ear proud not his feat. lol all the village girls be laughing at the “mighty warrior”caught with pants down and looking lovingly at guy that counted coup
"Morals are determined by the victor." The VCs won the Vietnam War. Does that make them the determiners of morals? Nope. Former colonial powers were once victors, yet they were challenged in their narratives fro the very beginning. The US won the war against Iraq. Were they not criticized? So, "morals are determined by the victor"? Nah, fam. That's just a platitude. Some pseudo-deep stuff that's only pseudo.
As a Navajo and part Zuni, I really recommend to save this video as a historical lesson, there was no good sides in war. Humans are addicted to glory, winning and also greed, no matter how righteous you think you are. Atleast the end of the day, we get humbled and flourished with others, despite what my ancestors or their ancestors did. If only people get let go of the past hate that doesn't belong to them. I'm sure the world will become a better place. Don't forget History, just Learn.
Sadly the Old White Guard mindset has not perished and is the defacto problem for the modern world, if your young its worse, racial diversity is one thing, but going beyond it overnight is impossible, you take it in steps,
@@saskk2290 That is also true, the many tribes of the plains were never united from the start, let alone the fact that they were also at war or in open hostility with the south American Empires,
This is one of my favorite scenes ever put to film. Colonel Miles cuts through all the bull crap both sides tell each other and themselves and describes the situation as it is, not as we'd like it to be. The line "for no less noble a cause" says it all. He knows he's not on some righteous crusade and has enough respect for his opponent not to pretend otherwise.
He's an Army Officer and he has his Orders. The U.S. actually had a large amount of Indian sympathizers who opposed the brutal slaughter/takeover of Indian lands, and had various beliefs in how much more stake the Indians deserved in their lands as Americans colonized it.
@@bladerj How could they be? When you have a country that loved/loves manifest destiny as much as America did and does, how could their voices ever be loud enough?
He's got a point. The Crow tribe hated Sitting Bull and his tribe - Lakota Sioux - for continuously raiding them and aggression towards them. They were actually devastated by the news of the fate of 7th Cavalry. When the Lakota Sioux gave up, the Crow were relieved that they could sleep soundly at night.
When Louis and Clark were on their trip to the west, they ran upon some indians that wouldn't come talk to them until they raised their shirt sleaves to show they were white. They were scared of another tribe.
@@josephohara2457 I read it in Undaunted Courage by Steven Ambrose. The book covered the complete Lewis and Clark trip. He researched it from notes of Lewis and Clark and maybe letters by the crew. I really enjoyed the book. He mentions a lot of contacts with native americans. The NorthWest indians were really nice to them. The Nez Priece. One story was about indians so hungry that they met in the plains, I think. When a deer had been killed by the crew, the indians were so hungry they picked up the intestines thatwere thrown aside and squeezed out the waste and ate them right away. They couldn't wait for food to be prepared.
My Sioux cousins HATE the Crow. Apparently there are stories all about Crow raids and atrocities that have been carried down to this day. It isn't surprising to learn that Americans and Europeans had very similar dynamics between their various societies, but from my understanding any given American was probably safer amongst their own tribe than average European was with say their neighbor generally.
I'm truly amazed and proud of most of the comments here. As a child my grandfather, who was Navajo, would tell me stories of our ancestors and the wars they had fought. He never tried to tell me that the white man was wrong or anything of the sort. He simply told us the truth of human nature. We're all flawed and all cultures, Navajo included have less than reputable history. We all come from cultures that have dark marks in our history. One is not worse or better than the other.
Many tribes have different stories and your grandfather is one of them. Like before every native american have a different stories. Before Europeans. Humans already had different beliefs and culture. Native american aren't one tribe. There's many of them. Just like Europe, Asia, Africa, and the middle east. Europeans like the Anglo-Saxon was the turning point to the native americans. Like the many broken peace treaty around 500 and the genocide of the school boarding happened. Til around the 90s they could finally speak their own languages. Not a good look.
@@lassmt your sub iq and liberal got you think genocide only applies to Europe. NO. When I said genocide happened. It happened. Like really ? Not even the spanish were up front making act saying "kill the indians, save the man"
@@erenjaeger1738the Canadian government just spent 8 million dollars digging and using sound imaging to look for the supposed mass graves at Indian schools and found NOTHING. In the meantime 33 Catholic Churches were burned to the ground by stoked up corporate media worshipping sheep like you. As long as the little brains keep falling for the Divide and Conquer agenda we will forever be at the mercy of ancient banking families who own our media and governments. They are the TRUE enemies of the human race.
Colonel Nelson Miles, Medal of Honor recipient for his gallantry during the American Civil War, and future Commanding General of the United States Army. He led the U.S. Army to victory in the Spanish-American War. When he died in 1925 he was one of the last living general officers from the Civil War. You can find his grave in Arlington National Cemetery as he was one of America's greatest ever soldiers.
Absolutely, started as a volunteer and and was a major general by 26, including becoming the commandant over the prison where Jefferson Davis was held. What a stud.
@@martinjugolin2087Wrong. Iconoclasm is definitely a tactic some bleeding hearts use, but Miles was never a slaver and he was a bigger SYMPATHIZER of Natives when compared to most other Army Officers.
@@Wasserkaktus No the fuck he wasn't. Did you see what he did to Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce? If you can't tell real Native history shut your dick licker. General Lee had more respect for Natives than any Yankee general.
@@Wasserkaktus So you stil think there's a diufference between the left and right huh? There's not. they're both bought and paid for by Zionists. Trump and Biden both have mostly hand rubbers as their advisors IE their HANDLERS
It's actually rather surprising how well-read and eloquent Americans were in the 1800s. And they had a way with words which is lost today. Interestingly enough, up to the American civil war, the literacy rate of America was extremely high. About 9/10 soldiers on both sides, the Union and Confederacy, were literate. And as we see from their surviving letters during the war - of which there's many - they were quite well versed in writing. Even a letter to back to their family sounds fancy. Now after the war... literacy just fell off a cliff. It dropped down to 20% in some areas, IIRC. And it didn't really recover until the 1920s or so.
Actually what you are demonstrating is you know FA about how educated people (like military officers) spoke in the 19th Century. There have been a significant decline in the vocabulary of the average American since the 1960's.
@@matchesburn I've never heard this before. So American literacy went up in the early 1800's, but fell off later, before coming back up in the 1900's? Did literacy become much more important in the early 1800's then, due to increased accessibility of books and such, but then it became so widespread without seeming to bring much in return that it just became less important for a while, being seeing more as a fad than a vital skill? Does it have something to do with the South not having as much money after the Civil War?
@@iconian1387 It was very much a cultural thing left over from the age of enlightenment and the founding of America. Reading/writing was considered essential in order to be successful and not applying to learn to do so was viewed as uncouth and backwards. You didn't want to be *_that guy_* that couldn't read and write. And, at the time, the best way to court women was to write them letters... so... that was a big motivator for men of the time. As for why it fell off after the American civil war, it's not like people came to dislike literacy... It's that the nation was in shambles. Not for years. Decades. Entire swathes of the generation were cut up... sometimes literally... and just dead. Economically the country was devastated. Socially/culturally, there was just as much if not more turmoil. Significant portions of an entire generation were left in the cemeteries. Some states, especially in the south, were literally burned down almost to every single major town or city. The infrastructure was gone. At the time, there were more pressing concerns and little availability to teach literacy. And it did take the better part of a generation or two for the country to rebuild and find its footing. People have no idea *_just how devastating_* the American civil war was and how much it set the country back. We lost basically 50 years of progress in stagnation.
@@matchesburn You're right, I've never heard that the Civil War was that devastating. Do you know of any books or videos about it? I knew the South was devastated, but I guess the North was as well. I suppose that World Wars I and II probably weren't quite as bad for America, but I have heard that World War I in particular was devastating to Europe
@@freddovich7925 Can you not understand basic engIish? He said "anymore", meaning in future movies. And he is right and you know it. Or are you going to pretend and lie that the current western movie industry does not exist solely for the purpose of poIiticaI propaganda, to promote antihwite radicaI Ieft ideoIogy?
I like how the writer is trying not to be biased with writing the dialogue and provides relatively good arguments to both men edit: I retract this statement after re-watching it
@@UncleSarge At the end of day the Native Americans got conquered. It wasn't pretty and wasn't ethical but it was how history went for a millennia. They (The Indians) conquered the people before them. The Americans were just the best at it.
@@jaybartgis5148 One was earned by blood sweat and tears. The other one was "Thanks for saving me from the last guys we stole shit from, now give us everything we demand or you're anti semitic". There is a pretty wide difference between having lost a fight, and regretting giving a beggar the chance to backstab us after we fought and bled for them. We respect warriors more than snakes. Hence why commies are so disgusting to the man of reason as well.
We all kind of look like from that time because we're their descendants whose face has been passed on by our fathers for millennia. The only difference is our facial hair.
I don't think I have found a more perfect dialog. Honor and pride on one side, and the other historically correct and with facts on it's side, but both tainted by the greed and violence of man.
There was never fact behind the US side when it came to natives. They painted every narrative they wanted to find reasons to commit genocide. To this day we still get pushed around and y’all dipshits want to say it’s because we were savages. The real savages are the people that pushed us out of our homes, relocated us and used our lands for slavery. We got painted as the bad guys because we were brown and had land they wanted. That’s the fact. Not some bullshit about us constantly fighting each other, that was because white guy pisses off a native tribe and promises land back to another if they help defend the white guy. Then they don’t do it and rinse and repeat until they’re all too weak or just dead. That’s what white history won’t tell you.
Col Miles is correct. Look at the Mayans and Aztecs. Look at the Comanche in Texas. Those tribes thirsted on the blood of other tribes, and did so before the arrival of white men. There is a reason why many tribes sided with the Spanish and the Tejanos, instead of their fellow Natives.
"B-b-b-but... MY people were the last ones to be conquered... Therefore we never got the chance for revenge and that means we deserve special treatment..."
@@jacobhargiss3839 If beeing a merciless douchbag with no empathy, capable of exterminating the tribe from the next valley, just because you had a bad harvest this year, meant no evulationary advantage, this kind of people would have gone extinct long time ago, and we would be a much more peacefull spicies by now...... But we are not........
True, but the Treaty of 1868 giving the Black Hills to the Lakota Sioux, was broken by white prospectors and entrepreneurs who flooded into Sioux Territory and the Black Hills in 1875 and 1876 when gold was discovered there in 1874 by Custer and his Black Hills Expedition. If gold wasn't discovered in Deadwood gulch, there never would have been a Battle of The Little Bighorn, or the subsequent battles that saw the end of the free roaming Sioux and Northern Cheyenne.
Don’t be crying like a little baby 😢when the minority in the USA become the majority it’s just a matter of a another decade and building a southern wall isn’t going to save you 😉
@@bonquequedickison4080Crux means "cross". Literally and figuratively. It's used to denote where several things in an argument "cross" or intersect, making it the most important point and what any cogent argument would be based off of.
I hope you don’t think that’s a knock on the Europeans. It was pretty noble of them to secure what would become the greatest country in the world with their blood sweat and tears.
Colonel Miles is my grandmother's grandfather. I'm named after him. This is the first time I've ever seen him presented as a character in a story, and damn, if the real man was anything like that, I am okay with being named after him.
@andrewbaker3855 Medal of Honor pre WWI does not mean what it does today. Ppl were awarded it during the Indian Wars for going to get water.. The criteria pre Boxer Rebellion(1900ish) was not remotely comparable to what today's ppl, mostly influenced by WWII and Vietnam citations, would expect. TLDR, pre WWII MoH was almost always worth a Bronze Star with Valor device at best.
and those damn furry elephants stole it from the lizards, who stole it from the amphibians, who stole it from the arthropods, who stole it from the prototrees, which were the first original inhabitants of land
When the Corps of Discovery, the Lewis and Clark Expedition, wintered with the Mandans near Council Bluffs before heading up the Missouri River, they were told that when they go up the river, they will meet a people who will not listen. These were those people.
Everybody is from someplace else. Just focus on living a peaceful existence wherever you have to go to find it. We don't own this earth and will be separated from it no matter what we believe.
Dude, its from 2007. It's not some begone era lost to time. Its the same age as Facebook, so would we speak to someone who first saw Facebook come out as if they are some venerable elder of forgotten wisdom?
But the natives DID establish peace or so they thought They helped the pilgrims and they returned the favor with thanksgiving Oh yeah and the concept of “owning” land is a white thing Stop with the propaganda
Some areas of the world have been conquered and retaken a dozen times throughout history. The brutal struggle for dominance. King of the Hill. It continues today, among many races, tribes and adversaries. Humanity..
@@KaosKrusherImagine a tribe having the opportunity to nickname their enemies for the european settlers; Colonial: Hao, Chief Sweet Cheeks ✋😃 Indian Chief: Wtf? 🤨
@@KaosKrusher It makes sense if you think about it spatially. Happens the world over. For instance, why do we refer to China as 'China' and not 'The Middle Kingdom' or 'Zhongguo' or some latinized version of it? It's because we went though India first and 'China' is derived from the Indian name for it. Same thing for the native indian tribes. Usually we would talk to native tribes and get information from them on who is around them. It might be months or years before we actually interacted with those neighboring tribes ourselves.
no. this is pure myth. 660 treaties, 500 broken, is not conquest and not the same as the "sioux" migrating into south dakota to evade white people diseases in the 1500s
@@VMohdude- I was assuming(I guess wrongly) that people would know I’m talking about modern day Hollywood. Modern day Hollywood would not make a movie like this. Or more accurately, a scene like this. Maybe I’m wrong? Just seems to me that most of Hollywood seems fully entrenched in DEI type thinking.
@@Briselance My interpretation of Thrasmachus' argument was that justice itself does not exist, rather, that those with strength cloak themselves in justice to make their victory more palatable to their enemies. Personally, that is true, but true justice exists. It is simply convenient for people to cloak themselves in virtue when they do vice. Thus is all biological life.
I, too, am known to indulge in random recitations of movie and TV show quotes at inappropriate times. Gotta let some of the crazy out every now and then. 😅
All of our ancestors are warriors, you wouldn't be here otherwise. That scene is powerful because it is honest and shows both perspectives realistically. I will never fault anyone who believes they are defending their home, and when it comes to any American vs American Indian conflict, both sides, right or wrong, believe they are defending their home. God bless all American Indians. Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull will never die, they live forever in the soul of America herself. They are true Americans and true American warriors, as much as anyone in our illustrious history.
@@warrennicholsony.fernando4513 One was, Treaty of Fort Laramie 1868.... It was broken by the US government because some dudes found gold in the Blackhills. Hell they abandoned forts along the Bozeman trail as a result of the Treaty. Fort Fetterman outside of Story Wyoming, where Red Cloud's War started, was abandoned because of the Treaty of Fort Laramie. But then a year later some dudes found gold in the Blackhills of Wyoming and South Dakota and well, that's when things heated up again, and the military ignored the treaty so that prospectors could get rich.
@@stagalgiz1097 Wasn’t the military who ignored it(though there were plenty of Army dipshits). Look higher. It was the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Interior Dept., and ultimately President Grant…who all caved to the whims of prospectors(Indians don’t vote). But one good thing came out of the Custer expedition for gold…
@@Ash_Rein You clearly do not know anything about American Indians just by making that comment. Only PC virtue-signaling leftists who know nothing about anything refer to them as Native Americans. All scholars on the subject and basically all American Indians themselves still refer to the indigenous population of North America as Indians regardless of if you are offended are not. However, to answer your question historically, when Columbus landed in the Bahamas he thought originally he was in the Indonesian Islands or East Indies and referred to the indigenous population he made contact with as Indians because he was not aware at the moment that he was in the "New World" or what would later be known as America. As a result, the term Indian stuck for literally centuries and still to this day for most people who actually care about the subject and culture.
As a member of the Cherokee tribe (native American ID and everything), I can confirm: tribes have attacked and massacred other tribes for no more than lands and gain. Some whites did do horrible things to innocent natives. And some natives did horrible things to peaceable and innocent whites. It is better to forgive each other, KEEP peace that is made and unify than bring up old hatreds. And as a member of the Cherokee, I don't need apologies or gifts or special privileges. Pity and charity is an insult to men in my tribe. It's given to orphans and widows, not anyone else.
I'm not going to downplay the accomplishments of my ancestors, but I agree. I've traveled Europe quite a bit and I am of mainly English, Scottish, and German descent. If you've never been to Eurpope, I can tell you, castles are a dime a dozen. On our last trip to Scotland I really started focusing on the history of each one vs the architecture and function. Bascilly it came down to one dude taking shit from another dude and building something to protect it or show it off. It was a little disheartening, but still, great accomplishments and I respect the ones that tried to be fair. It's hard to debate that great societies have risen from these "dudes" fighting.
As a person of White descent from Brazil, I can say: I agree with you - we fought and killed eachother for far too long, and now, its too tiresome to carry on with the grudge... The widows and orphans indeed deserve land of their own. We, man, can work for ourselves to achieve it. I believe you know the bitter taste of ash when you "win" - yeah, I finally got it... ..but at what cost? Why? For who? It seems we are haunted by the ghosts of our ancestors, who thought little of their descendents, and demanded blood for the sake of their pride, and in the process, it broke ALL of us...
I listen to it anytime I have a hard conversation up ahead of me. Note how Miles doesn't get distracted by counteraccusations and misdirection. He doesn't defend his or anyone else's actions. He just keeps spitting facts. That is the way to make your point. Don't get defensive; stay on point. Make the other guy lose his cool first.
@@blehblehk5955Fun fact: Mexicans and Latin Americans were by in large considered White by the Census until the mid-20th Century, due to their Spanish roots.
They both had their points but the general was mainly in the right, many lands have switched hands between tribes or countries, strong enough to take it but too weak to defend it.
Our country and us ( Natives & Whites ) have had a long, complicated, bloody history. I wish we could have all lived amongst one another peacefully. But the truth is... Ideals are peaceful but history is violent. I pray that someday we all as Americans can truly forgive and love each other for what our ancestors did to one another. God bless.
It helps to read more. They were living in peace abiding by the treaty signed by Conquering Bear in 1851 and in 1854 the US Army shot Conquering Bear in the back, killing him, starting the First Sioux War.
This is an excellent clip. Neither side was completely noble nor completely in the right. If you’re going to truly understand the indian wars, you have to understand that. There was right and wrong a plenty on both sides. Welcome to humanity.
Very, very, very rarely is a war ever good vs bad, or right vs wrong. It is always gray vs gray. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s just a matter of which side you see as light gray, and which side you see as dark gray.
@@howardbaxter2514 War is not a question of morality. It's just question who's more powerful. Just like when people say "it's just my preference" well so is war. If you can win you win. If you loose well... suck's for you. I think though there is ethical way you should go about doing or else we risk extreme collateral damage and extinction.
@@nathanielkidd2840war has only ever existed for money and power. Morality is what they sell to the people at home that will inevitably be catching the bullets. Their is no justifiable reason for war outside of conquest, unless you happen to believe the recruitment posters.
Many years ago in a Native American studies class I pointed this out, that you are condemning one group for doing what every other group in America did, they just won! His response was basically “Well, Whites didn’t originate in the Americas”. I then pointed out neither did the “Natives”. He ignored my questions for the rest of the class. They don’t like it when you challenge their prejudices.
It would be quite easy for the teacher to counter your statement, but you were probably identified as not interested in learning in that moment, so the lesson continued- instead of chasing your challenges down a rabbit hole.
I am part Taino native, and even my ancestors had wars with the Caribe tribe far before the Europeans arrived. Man will conquer man. It's human history.
0:37 I always thought that the blanket guy did his job with such style. He must've stayed up all night practicing how smooth he wanted his big moment to look. Heck, as he's walking away he even does one of those moves where his arm is half extended outward and he makes a fist like, "yes! Nailed it!"
@DaChunkil8or Not amongst the far left. I had several people call me a liar, refuse to discuss it and one guy wanted to fight me because I said indians "colonized" each other constantly. So no, I wish it was, but there are people who cling to the myth like a safety blanket.
@@bigguy7353 What point is there in discussing the Native American history with extremists? You are just as likely to run into a far right person claiming their native blood means they're owned respect and lands, just for being born with super special blood which implies a legacy. They will only see history though a lens that they can personally benefit from.
@@Edax_Royeaux I don't think you're going to find many far right extremists with native blood claiming they're owed anything. First, I highly doubt there's many far right extremists who aren't white and if they are, I highly doubt they openly admit they're of mixed race decent...and second, entitlement isn't a big part of Conservatism. Tends to be more of a "Make do for yourself. Survival of the fittest" type of mentality. Either way, you are absolutely correct about the futility of arguing with either "extreme" end of the political spectrum. In America's current political state, you're going to get nothing but the party narrative from those types of people. Why even waste the time?
I'm enamored of the man playing Miles. I haven't seen him before, yet he has such presence and charisma. Those eyes. That stare. Why isn't he an A list movie star? I watch this scene over and over again.
I wish things like this were taught more in history class. Neither side were virtuous, they just fought for the future of their people. That is what most wars have been about.
Isn't fighting for the future of your people kind of virtuous? That's the ultimate lesson in human history. There are no bad guys. Only people who think they are making the world a better place.
@@IamaCosmonautexactly no war has been purely evil German soldiers were fighting for their country and for freedom and to in their opinion save humanity, American and allied soldiers were told they were fighting for freedom and democracy, the Taliban were fighting for their people and religion against a foreign oppressive occupation and American soldiers were fighting “terrorism”
One side was more virtuous than others. Escaping britain to live a better life and one side wants to protect its title. The good natives were blessings but they weren't the ones instigating.
"You conquered those tribes, lusting for their game and their lands, just as we have now conquered you for no less noble a cause." If you want a sentence that sums up all of human interaction throughout history, white, black, middle eastern, native american, asian, whatever, that's it.
No you are just ignorant. Greece with Alexander the great used native chief children to rule his conquest succeeding to assimilate these people...from Greece to Himalaya. The military conquest was followed by an educational work including these native in order to instaure a peaceful administration. Nothing to do with american. Most of them were adventurers looking for money quickly. To rob and to kill is the shortest way to get rich...then you write your own national myth of democraty and so on...
@@Virtus555 If that were true, it would be the warlords and despots in power. The lust for territory spelled the downfall of the USSR, and it'll spell the downfall of Russia next.
@@Virtus555 It though means of power, not strength, that nations like Costa Rica, which does not possess a military, or Luxembourg, which as of 2022 only has 900 soldiers, continue to exist. We don't live entirely in a world of might make right anymore. It's not worth asserting strength and invading Luxembourg to gain wealth and land anymore.
The only thing this misses is how much of the land the North American tribes lost was largely due to trade. Europeans would settle a region and this would actually attract the tribes. One tribe would attempt to monopolize access to the Europeans, because they wanted control over the trade of European firearms and even liquor. This meant they now had superiority over other tribes. It also meant they could profit from the trade of other tribes, since everything had to go through them. Plenty of European exploration was driven by the desire to circumvent these tribes denying access to other tribes who would sell their goods (furs typically) at lower prices. In the 1500-1600s most conflicts between Europeans and the tribes went in the tribes' favour, but while they could win the battles, they did not have the supplies to win the wars because the settlers always had access to European markets and reinforcements.
Things like this are often left out of history. Doesn't benefit the narrative. Did you know that the Boers bought much of the land in South Africa? It was terrible land, poor for development and nobody wanted it. The people that lived there were paid and allowed to stay living there. The Boers forged a modern nation out of nothing. People from the north of there, once it was developed, moved south, violently displacing the native inhabitants. These are the people that made claim to the territory and the world was all too happy to carry their water. Nobody talks about this or the fact that Mandela and his wife were violent terrorists.
@@noreply-7069 Yes, they did. And as soon as it became a nice, prosperous place the ANC people swooped in and violently displaced the previous natives and claimed the land. They cannot build, they can only seize and destroy. We see just how shockingly bad SA has become in a few years. They cannot run a country on their own. Too greedy, crooked, stupid and lazy.
Beautiful scene. There are very few, very, very few civilizations that can claim any moral superiority to how they claimed their lands. It is only in how those lands, and the people who live in them, are ruled that a civilizations can justify any cause for war.
One could argue that humans are the ultimate "species-ists." Every species that inhabited the lands the hominins "stole" from them would probably like to have a word with us, haha. ;)
Lands are won, and lost, through bloodshed. We should do well to not repeat the mistakes of our ancestors and learn to accept what we have in the now. What’s done cannot be undone, but we can still try to make what will be better for all that come after us.
It is interesting to look at civilizations who practiced evils. The Aztec come to mind with their massive slavery, torture, and murder of other Central American Indians. They were toppled by the Spainish. I have always wondered if it was for material or moral grounds. Yes, the Spanish wanted gold and silver but they also were Catholics who wished to follow their holy doctrine. Both morality and greed were factors I'm sure but is one weightier than another? Humans are very complex.
@@CassiusDX I can't recall -sorry - and I didn't watch the film because so many important books have been butchered by film - I was 14 or 15 when I read it and that was fifty years ago - I think I might search out another copy and re -read it after watching your clip - I'm surprised you haven't read it - it's one of those milestone book's - Gerry Docherty's book Hidden History is another -
4 laws of nature: 1. If you wanted it, you took it. 2. If you couldn't take it, you didn't have it. 3. If you had something, you defended it. 4. If you couldn't defend it, you lost it.
you can actually agree/disagree with both sides, as much as it was the natives decision to get them guns, they needed them to defend themselves against the same white men who sold the guns to them, they also were warriors, which means they lived to fight, the problem was that they went too far to the point of annihilating all the other tribes, they got too greedy and that was played against them. In the case of the Americans, you can never forget the massacres perpetrated by them against native women and children and their greed for acquiring all of north america for themselves, they literally tried to take over Canada, Cuba and Mexico as well, if that happened they would of also taken south america, no doubt about it.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Happy Thanksgiving everybody
Why did you reupload this? Was there a problem?
yeah, technical issue
@@CassiusDX OK.
Dagos
Damn that’s cold haba
“Where did you get this land?
From my father.
Where did he get it?
From his father.
Where did he get it?
He fought for it.
I’ll fight you for it.” -Scandinavian proverb.
Not an endorsement of any particular ideology, just an observation about human nature.
I mean, so long as you don't lie to yourself and treat the ordeal like a big ass duel, it's really about as simple and efficient as you can make a conquest. 1 big fight, man to man, winner takes all.
Is that really a proverb? It’s good.
Two wrongs don't make a right - English proverb
@@arcsaber1127 No they do not, but we're here now. Learn from it or repeat it.
Naw. Some greedy prospectors will get it. Your dumb ass will get alcoholism, PTSD, and a cheap army pension.
"As we have conquered you for no less a noble cause"
The fact he can say it and still point out the hypocrisy and similarity between them makes me respect him.
No hypocrisy in that statement at all.
He knew what their primary mission there was. He wasn't self-delusional like most then. You generally don't reach the rank of Colonel back then by being an idealist, or deluding yourself
Read up on Nelson Miles and his military career and you won't respect him as much
It’s not hypocrisy. He’s saying it belongs to whoever can claim and defend it. If you lose, it’s not yours anymore. The hypocrisy is “indigenous” people always invoking some spiritual or holy right to a place as soon as they face a superior enemy.
@@kjf729 What gave the white people the right to land here and then say all your shit is now ours, move to a reservation and accept you fate as our slaves?
I'm an Apache, and no other tribe caused as much terror among white settlers as mine did. My ancestors raided Spanish, Mexican and American settlers, and were known to sadistically torture prisoners including women and children. They also preyed on neighboring tribes till we were in turn defeated by the Comanche, and wound up having to make peace with the Spaniards or risk being wiped out completely. In short my people were far from peaceable, and I dislike it when white people with no knowledge of my people's history portray us as helpless victims. My people were akin to Vikings, tough and merciless raiders who lived by the proverbial sword, and died by it, too.
You helping us or siding with China when we play cowboys and Chinese?
@@MichaelWilliams-fl4hx You should look up the history of the native americans fighting with the us especially the world wars. They have done a lot for america.
@@zacharymartin9151 I probably know more history then you do.
Real talk.. Much respect..
@@MichaelWilliams-fl4hxhumm..? That's a wild, yet somehow, appropriate question..!!😂
This scene brings more nuance to this debate than 99% of conversations about this topic IRL
Play this entire scene could be switched out with two groups anywhere in the world and it's exactly the same. People complaining about colonizers are pseudo historians. They know nothing about human civilization and the constant way it repeats.. there is no evil that is unique to One race or one empire or one continent or one military force. It's all just different shades of the same color
Misses a couple of very key components: The scale of Western violence, whereby Europe by this point had seen almost uninterrupted violence compared to on and off struggles in most of the rest of the world, leading to a scaling up of technology, destruction, and justifications for war. Also missed is the fact that Western Enlightenment and humanist values should have led to a greater appreciation for humanity and less ethnic essentialism when it came to declaring people barbars or savages.
A people with such an opportunity to reflect on a rich written history has a greater obligation and responsibility to do better, even if it were true that Native Americans had participated in conquest at anywhere near the rate of Europeans.
@@VesperAegis The various AMerican Indian nations fought each other for millennia, and when the palefaces came certain nations happily allied with them because they feared their enemies more. And the old feuds are not at all dead.
@@VesperAegisgot it, you want to hold Europeans to a different standard than the rest of the world.
@@VesperAegis the death of one family member is no less significant than the deaths of many…do the numbers matter really?
One thing that makes this scene even better is that the Colonel even says “you conquered those tribes, lusting for their game, and their lands and we have conquered you for no less noble a cause” he knows he’s doing exactly what they did and is willing to admit it unlike some who pretended they were on some mission of righteousness
I don't understand how a non-psychopath can admit that and still go on. Baffling humans
Some people WERE on a righteous mission. Not every single person was a soldier, a king, a farmer, or a missionary. Everyone had their reasons.
@@SalvableRuinare you saying missionaries weren’t on a righteous mission?
You need to go to school and study history.There's a big difference between breaking a treaty and actually conquering or winning a war.
@@TheChadPadsure thing. Imposing your beliefs and culture on other people's isn't righteous.
But then again, if you think that your ways are the correct ones, then you likely think that imposing your beliefs on others is the righteous thing to do.
I'm surprised to see such historical accuracy. All the land that the Sioux claimed had been theirs was actually "stolen" from the Crow and others just a hundred years or so earlier. It's rare to see that acknowledged.
THAT'S a land acknowledgement I'd like to see!
Comanches raided Mexico and the Southwest for 400 years and killed more Native Americans than the White man. Think about it you Socialists! Indians were winning up until the 1870-1887 and then we put them on reservations. Comanches killed everyone except young boys and sex women slaves. They were PIRATES of the prairies , never farmed, never made camps , just raided from place to place.
I always found it Ironic that 1776 was not only when the USA declared independence and fought a war with Britan but was also the year the Lakota conquered the Black Hills from the Cheyenne confederation which also was the Year my Ojibwe ancestors were mopping up after conquering the Lakota lands in Minnesota.
Here is an example of your logic: Some Jews in Nazi Germany betrayed other Jews, which resulted in their being exterminated in concentration camps. What happen to the Jews is OK because not all Jews were honorable."
What happened to the Sioux is not "OK" because of what the Sioux did a hundred years earlier.
Still doesn’t change the fact that America is a nation founded by illegal immigrants
Both these actors are MAGNIFICENT
Really???? It's screams "TV movie" acting to me.
@THEJAM-EATERS exactly way better acting than what we get nowadays
@@curlyfries8388 The actor for Miles could still improve in yelling, but he does very well when showing emotions.
@@curlyfries8388 You Americans need to raise your bar.
@@THEJAM-EATERS Compared to Eurotrash who are sucking off their conquerors in their films/TV? =p
Kudos to the writer, that's some badass dialogue.
Sure is. I just don't understand 2 things:
1) Where did they find a military officer who's a philosopher?
2) Did Indians really speak English so well?
@@edmis90 its a movie relax
@@edmis90 Colonel Miles and Sitting Bull's conversation does seem to to be made for a movie. Coalesce out of the ether and for no less a noble cause are great lines but I would think somewhat confusing for non native English speakers.
Right, so that excuses war-crimes, ethnic cleansing, and genocide?
@@edmis90 Nelson Miles was a highly educated man, and would have studied philosophy. Miles was one of the few American Generals who did not attend the West Point Military Academy, yet rose to high rank to command the entire U.S. Army. Miles rose thru the ranks on merit alone, showing that Miles could self-educate and learn in areas he had no previous education or experience. Miles is an interesting guy, to say the least!
"Who sold us the guns?"
"Who bought and used them?"
"You don't like the guns we gave you? Ok, well you can hand them back in then. Along with all the horses too. Have a nice day."
Apparently, Whitey believes in a fair fight.
This is relatable, even to slavery.
"Who sold the slaves, African tribesmen!"
"Who bought the slaves, European traders!"
@@thecleaner8442
Whitey? What racism. It’s not about a fair fight, it’s about how all races have a history of conquest, even the Natives.
@@BruceWayne-fj9bm No. It is about a fair fight. You sensitive dumbass.
See people cheering for Nelson Miles and he is not wrong in his assertions but for me the best part is that he is not claiming any moral high ground and is treating Sitting Bull as an equal.
I'm really frustrated he hasn't been given the same attention and renown as a lot of other senior U.S. Army Officers in History.
@@Wasserkaktus
I just read up on the guy, he was an excellent officer, made it from Lieutenant to brevet general in 2 years during the civil war. Ended up commanding the entire US Army and was made governor of Puerto Rico. He was an incredible man, first time I have ever heard of him.
@@Wasserkaktus It is a sad truth that generals are frequently famous because they are self-promoters. It isn't ALWAYS true, but one reason everybody remembers Custer (besides that fact that he got spectacularly killed) and not Miles, or Sheridan, etc is that Custer was a flamboyant self-promoter who liked to talk to reporters, who rightly or wrongly are the modern scribes of history.
Finally someone agrees to why islamic migrants should completely take over the west.
Treating? who ended up losing everything? Miles knew that the plague of European life was coming and Sitting Bull had no chance...moral high ground??? from a EUROPEAN colonizer source/people? It will never happen! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Especially seeing how Nazis would create concentration camps from the model of concentration camps used against Black citizens after the civil war!! THERE WAS NEVER ANY MORAL HIGH GROUND TO BE MENTIONED...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahaha!!!
"There's nothing to explain. You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen."
OK Westley.
Inconceivable!
you keep using that word...I don't think it means what you think it means..
Favorite movie and book
@@nathanrosman-bakehouse359 RIP William Goldman
Nelson miles was a formidable man. He fought in nearly every major engagement with the Army of the Potomac during the civil war, from the peninsula to appomattox and rose to the rank of a major general before reverting back to his nominal rank post-war. The horrors he no doubt witnessed hardened this life long warrior. He eventually became general in chief of the entire us armed forces later in his life. This meeting between two great warriors must have been something indeed.
"the proposition that you were a peaceable people before the appearance of the white man is the most fanciful legend of all"
bro nailed it
Yeah but we've known that for a long, long time. Even Miles knew it. When people NOW say things like "reeee the American Indians weren't peaceful", it causes others to roll their eyes.
Its not the land taking thats messed up. Its the genocide. How many natives do you know? This land used to be full of them.
@@kingstarscream3807 It causes people who don't want to know history to roll their eyes. If you went to most public schools and were taught for 13 years that America was a peaceful, loving continent for 10,000 years before any Europeans showed up, then you will definitely roll your eyes.
The Indian cheif literally argued like a woman. Void of all reason. Just blames. Takes no responsibility. Gets violent when they got not argument.
@@erc9468 no everyone knows this. It's more propaganda from alt right people. Same as suggesting slavery wasn't an important factor during the Civil War. The bastardization of history from people who demand to see themselves as heroes when they performed the actions of villains.
That's a man who studied his enemy and came prepared.
If only Custer would have been so prepared 😬
@@Musica78237this was filmed in 2007 where the mindset was much different, 17 years ago. Stop trying to fight the uncomfortable truth and grow up
@@Musica78237 cringe
@@bradleybreslin945 Custer had it coming
@@scottritchey573 Do you always miss the point?
An uncomfortable historical truth: every single bit of land that belongs to anyone anywhere, once belonged to someone else.
Mine belongs to my county. I pay taxes and they let me live on it.
The conquered never see it that way though. It is their lot to moan and cry about what happened to them, but they will never shed a tear for what they did to others!
@@stevet5379 Well said.
@@stevet5379 So killing their women and children and stealing their land is okay?
Not EVERY single bit of land. There are remote places and islands that were ever only discovered and settled by one people. But most, yes.
What I like most about this scene is that both men, despite being enemies, are talking to each other with respect and as equals.
Did you go all moist eyed watching this moving scene?
No, they are not equal. One group has superior weapons and reinforcements.
Respect? No, I'd say contempt. 2 sides of the same coin and they both know it. They're warriors and enemies. 1 lives. 1 dies.
@@MeneerHerculePoirot reapect is nothing more than showing professional courtesy to your enemy.
@@sagatuppercut2960 well, in this case, the side that has the superior weaponry are the natives. And the US didnt exactly have available reinforcements at the ready.
4 minutes of dialogue that is more educational and interesting than any of the modern movies being pushed out by Hollywood today.
K Boomer
@@kbanghartboomers are smart
I have not met many younger people (
@@nappa4317not to mention many of the native American tribes practiced cannibalism
@@shiniquajones2812 hmmm is that so.....
*_"for no less noble a cause"_*
perfectly used words
@Prkau telek by growing up
@Prkau telek the "no less noble" is the important part there, but go on hating one race for what all humanity has partaken in.
@Prkau telek Both practices employed by first nation peoples.
@Prkau telek en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_slave_ownership
Read it and weep or remain ignorant, don't really care.
@Prkau telek Native Americans did slavery too. Nice deflecting historical facts .
For every tribe whose name you do know, there are a thousand whose name you don't know, having been wiped out by the one you do.
I love this line it works for a lot of European tribes too.
@@avrilfan0521It works for all nations and groups. Either adapt and conquer or stall and be conquered
Same with Africa. Race has nothing to do with conquering land. It is the way of all mankind. And if a nation doesn’t have an enemy to fight then they fight with their own people.
I always wonder why folk forget that, its literally human nature as a whole to dominate and eventually spread chaos and torment cuz peace drives men insane due to boredom
Damnatio Memoriae
So much respect given here. It's the folly of human history in 4 minutes.
I really appreciate the historical accuracy of the natives being armed with lever action repeaters, while the cav are all using outdated trap door Spencer’s. This was one of the most interesting aspect of the Indian wars, where the natives were armed much better than the Cavalry army units sent to push them into reservations. Quality movie
You mean "Springfield Trapdoor". I agree, this was a great movie, I first saw it 2010.
This! The "funny" part with battles like the Little Big Horn was that the US Cavalry was completely outgunned.
Those are Trapdoor Springfields, Spencer's were tube loading repeaters.
Really repeaters were more trouble than they were worth. There's a reason the mainstay of the US arm was simple bolt actions for a century and kept using tried and true springfields during the indian wars.
It did happen with a few as some had gold to bribe dealers and ex military people sold them the latest kits near the end of the indian wars
An actual accurate portrayal of history. No romanticizing of either side. Just the truth that human groups behave the same.
Except for the fact that tribe doesn't fight and k*ll tribe anymore. They have real medicine for their sick, rather than a wrinkly old man with an animal scrotum filled with magic sand. And let's not forget all the US government's hand outs to sustain
Yep. There is not moral high ground. Not one country, culture, ethnic group etc. is currently occupying their original homeland. We all took it from someone else with blood
The scene literally shows that humans don't behave the same. The Indians were pure emotion, void of all reason, couldn't back up their claims, and got violent because of words. Typical of lesser civilizations. No wonder they lost.
Too many lies become accepted as fact and public schools are to blame. Sad that some people still believe that smallpox blankets were used as a biological weapon more than a century before Louis Pasteur would develop germ theory.
@@smokingcrab2290thank u... beautiful statement man. Research the solutreans the real natives the first Americans the European tribes that were geonicided by the so called natives. (Due to inferior numbers)
When people claim the natives Americans where all peace pipe smoking hippies they are actually being massively disrespectful as many of the tribal nations were highly skilled and capable warriors who took pride in that.
The name Comanche is derived from a Ute word meaning “anyone who wants to fight me all the time.”
yeah no one claims that fabrication
@@ricknelmsa lot of curriculums address the indigenous tribes accordingly. My native American studies class in college didn't cover a single instance of warfare between the tribes. Despite the fact that it happened very frequently
@@joeberger3441 unfortunately they are not united or at least have a leader for them to stay united together.
Otherwise the western expansion by the USA will be challenging
Counting coup was so strange to me but actually seems hilarious when I think about it now.
Imagine a mighty warrior getting caught off guard not killed just shown he could’ve been killed then his enemy just walking away grinning from ear to ear proud not his feat.
lol all the village girls be laughing at the “mighty warrior”caught with pants down and looking lovingly at guy that counted coup
"War and conquest are human nature, morals are determined by the victor." - a random Vietnam veteran I once met.
"Morals are determined by the victor."
The VCs won the Vietnam War. Does that make them the determiners of morals? Nope.
Former colonial powers were once victors, yet they were challenged in their narratives fro the very beginning.
The US won the war against Iraq. Were they not criticized?
So, "morals are determined by the victor"? Nah, fam. That's just a platitude. Some pseudo-deep stuff that's only pseudo.
Never more so than in WW2
@@BriselanceIt's clearly a cynical statement....
@@BriselanceLast time I visited Vietnam there was a Ford plant being built. Communism lost.
@@SteveSherman-jp1dzDont let this man find out the Soviet- Ford, chevrolet ans chrisler trade agreements in the 30's.
As a Navajo and part Zuni, I really recommend to save this video as a historical lesson, there was no good sides in war. Humans are addicted to glory, winning and also greed, no matter how righteous you think you are. Atleast the end of the day, we get humbled and flourished with others, despite what my ancestors or their ancestors did. If only people get let go of the past hate that doesn't belong to them. I'm sure the world will become a better place. Don't forget History, just Learn.
Sadly the Old White Guard mindset has not perished and is the defacto problem for the modern world, if your young its worse, racial diversity is one thing, but going beyond it overnight is impossible, you take it in steps,
This dialogue isn’t history. This is fantasy and colonial propaganda
@@sonjurattler Always has been, White League is bleaching everything now a days,
History plainly shows the European settlers' greed far eclipsed that of the Indian, despite it also existing
@@saskk2290 That is also true, the many tribes of the plains were never united from the start, let alone the fact that they were also at war or in open hostility with the south American Empires,
This is one of my favorite scenes ever put to film. Colonel Miles cuts through all the bull crap both sides tell each other and themselves and describes the situation as it is, not as we'd like it to be. The line "for no less noble a cause" says it all. He knows he's not on some righteous crusade and has enough respect for his opponent not to pretend otherwise.
He's an Army Officer and he has his Orders. The U.S. actually had a large amount of Indian sympathizers who opposed the brutal slaughter/takeover of Indian lands, and had various beliefs in how much more stake the Indians deserved in their lands as Americans colonized it.
clearly they weernt vocal enough.@@Wasserkaktus
@@bladerj How could they be? When you have a country that loved/loves manifest destiny as much as America did and does, how could their voices ever be loud enough?
Many whites believed in manifest destiny, in fact it was literally a government proclamation
@@cccspwn And the fact that they still do is a problem. Manifest Destiny should never have existed.
He's got a point. The Crow tribe hated Sitting Bull and his tribe - Lakota Sioux - for continuously raiding them and aggression towards them. They were actually devastated by the news of the fate of 7th Cavalry. When the Lakota Sioux gave up, the Crow were relieved that they could sleep soundly at night.
When Louis and Clark were on their trip to the west, they ran upon some indians that wouldn't come talk to them until they raised their shirt sleaves to show they were white. They were scared of another tribe.
@@robbyddurham1624 is that true?
@@josephohara2457 I read it in Undaunted Courage by Steven Ambrose. The book covered the complete Lewis and Clark trip. He researched it from notes of Lewis and Clark and maybe letters by the crew. I really enjoyed the book. He mentions a lot of contacts with native americans. The NorthWest indians were really nice to them. The Nez Priece. One story was about indians so hungry that they met in the plains, I think. When a deer had been killed by the crew, the indians were so hungry they picked up the intestines thatwere thrown aside and squeezed out the waste and ate them right away. They couldn't wait for food to be prepared.
Wherever you go on this world, people are people. For better or for worse.
My Sioux cousins HATE the Crow. Apparently there are stories all about Crow raids and atrocities that have been carried down to this day. It isn't surprising to learn that Americans and Europeans had very similar dynamics between their various societies, but from my understanding any given American was probably safer amongst their own tribe than average European was with say their neighbor generally.
"This is truth, NOT LEGEND." Very honest conversation. Gotta love good writing that makes you think
I'm truly amazed and proud of most of the comments here. As a child my grandfather, who was Navajo, would tell me stories of our ancestors and the wars they had fought. He never tried to tell me that the white man was wrong or anything of the sort. He simply told us the truth of human nature. We're all flawed and all cultures, Navajo included have less than reputable history. We all come from cultures that have dark marks in our history. One is not worse or better than the other.
That is the true noble view of history and the present should be used to unite for the best future possible.
Many tribes have different stories and your grandfather is one of them. Like before every native american have a different stories. Before Europeans. Humans already had different beliefs and culture. Native american aren't one tribe. There's many of them. Just like Europe, Asia, Africa, and the middle east.
Europeans like the Anglo-Saxon was the turning point to the native americans. Like the many broken peace treaty around 500 and the genocide of the school boarding happened. Til around the 90s they could finally speak their own languages. Not a good look.
@@erenjaeger1738 you seem to have no point. Using the term genocide is purely performative and inaccurate.
@@lassmt your sub iq and liberal got you think genocide only applies to Europe. NO. When I said genocide happened. It happened. Like really ? Not even the spanish were up front making act saying "kill the indians, save the man"
@@erenjaeger1738the Canadian government just spent 8 million dollars digging and using sound imaging to look for the supposed mass graves at Indian schools and found NOTHING. In the meantime 33 Catholic Churches were burned to the ground by stoked up corporate media worshipping sheep like you. As long as the little brains keep falling for the Divide and Conquer agenda we will forever be at the mercy of ancient banking families who own our media and governments. They are the TRUE enemies of the human race.
_"This is _*_your_*_ story of my people!"_
_"This is the _*_truth,_*_ not _*_legends!"_*
I like how Nelson has the Native American culture ingrained in him. He knows the history, their rivals, and even speaks like them. Great character.
Col. Nelson was a real person btw
@@RildarThe Miles in the clip is character based on the real person, but how much of the character reflects reality?
@@AngemonOfLight Idk and idc, it's a movie
@@Rildar It's a historical movie, so a degree of accuracy is expected.
@@wtfduud Ok. Don't know why you're replying when I said "idk and idc."
Colonel Miles is 100% exactly correct.
Colonel Nelson Miles, Medal of Honor recipient for his gallantry during the American Civil War, and future Commanding General of the United States Army. He led the U.S. Army to victory in the Spanish-American War. When he died in 1925 he was one of the last living general officers from the Civil War. You can find his grave in Arlington National Cemetery as he was one of America's greatest ever soldiers.
Absolutely, started as a volunteer and and was a major general by 26, including becoming the commandant over the prison where Jefferson Davis was held. What a stud.
I'm actually afraid that some lefties will vandalise his resting place
@@martinjugolin2087Wrong. Iconoclasm is definitely a tactic some bleeding hearts use, but Miles was never a slaver and he was a bigger SYMPATHIZER of Natives when compared to most other Army Officers.
@@Wasserkaktus No the fuck he wasn't. Did you see what he did to Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce? If you can't tell real Native history shut your dick licker. General Lee had more respect for Natives than any Yankee general.
@@Wasserkaktus So you stil think there's a diufference between the left and right huh? There's not. they're both bought and paid for by Zionists. Trump and Biden both have mostly hand rubbers as their advisors IE their HANDLERS
When a man says "coalesce out of the ether" you know the conversation is on some deep level shit.
It's actually rather surprising how well-read and eloquent Americans were in the 1800s. And they had a way with words which is lost today.
Interestingly enough, up to the American civil war, the literacy rate of America was extremely high. About 9/10 soldiers on both sides, the Union and Confederacy, were literate. And as we see from their surviving letters during the war - of which there's many - they were quite well versed in writing. Even a letter to back to their family sounds fancy. Now after the war... literacy just fell off a cliff. It dropped down to 20% in some areas, IIRC. And it didn't really recover until the 1920s or so.
Actually what you are demonstrating is you know FA about how educated people (like military officers) spoke in the 19th Century. There have been a significant decline in the vocabulary of the average American since the 1960's.
@@matchesburn I've never heard this before. So American literacy went up in the early 1800's, but fell off later, before coming back up in the 1900's? Did literacy become much more important in the early 1800's then, due to increased accessibility of books and such, but then it became so widespread without seeming to bring much in return that it just became less important for a while, being seeing more as a fad than a vital skill? Does it have something to do with the South not having as much money after the Civil War?
@@iconian1387
It was very much a cultural thing left over from the age of enlightenment and the founding of America. Reading/writing was considered essential in order to be successful and not applying to learn to do so was viewed as uncouth and backwards. You didn't want to be *_that guy_* that couldn't read and write. And, at the time, the best way to court women was to write them letters... so... that was a big motivator for men of the time.
As for why it fell off after the American civil war, it's not like people came to dislike literacy... It's that the nation was in shambles. Not for years. Decades. Entire swathes of the generation were cut up... sometimes literally... and just dead. Economically the country was devastated. Socially/culturally, there was just as much if not more turmoil. Significant portions of an entire generation were left in the cemeteries. Some states, especially in the south, were literally burned down almost to every single major town or city. The infrastructure was gone.
At the time, there were more pressing concerns and little availability to teach literacy. And it did take the better part of a generation or two for the country to rebuild and find its footing. People have no idea *_just how devastating_* the American civil war was and how much it set the country back. We lost basically 50 years of progress in stagnation.
@@matchesburn You're right, I've never heard that the Civil War was that devastating. Do you know of any books or videos about it? I knew the South was devastated, but I guess the North was as well.
I suppose that World Wars I and II probably weren't quite as bad for America, but I have heard that World War I in particular was devastating to Europe
This scene with this dialog could never be filmed today. The best scene in an otherwise below average film.
Damn I was going to watch it because this was so good. 😢figures. 😂
Its truth!
@@rollotomasislawyer3405 It’s a good movie that’s worth watching.
Legit, everyone says the American government was in full wrong, they were in some places but the natives were hypocritical as fuck
@@GeneralHarvey in what ways were they hypocritical?
They would never allow history to be portrayed this honestly in a movie anymore.
It's literally in the movie, what are you complaining about
@@freddovich7925 Can you not understand basic engIish? He said "anymore", meaning in future movies. And he is right and you know it. Or are you going to pretend and lie that the current western movie industry does not exist solely for the purpose of poIiticaI propaganda, to promote antihwite radicaI Ieft ideoIogy?
@@freddovich7925he said , anymore.
@@freddovich7925the key word being "anymore"
I like how the writer is trying not to be biased with writing the dialogue and provides relatively good arguments to both men
edit: I retract this statement after re-watching it
what argument did sitting bull even make
His God is better I don't know something retarded
@@romegypt5675 "These are our lands and you can't force us from them" was his argument, even if it wasn't his land to begin with.
More so the Americans really as we're dominated by a culture who automatically takes the side of the indians.
@@UncleSarge At the end of day the Native Americans got conquered. It wasn't pretty and wasn't ethical but it was how history went for a millennia. They (The Indians) conquered the people before them. The Americans were just the best at it.
Colonel Miles: "Let me explain..."
Chief Sitting Bull: "There's nothing to explain. You're trying to seize what I have rightfully stolen!"
2022
Zionist Occupied Government: "let me explain..."
Whites: "there's nothing to explain. You're trying to seize what I have rightfully stolen!"
@@jaybartgis5148 One was earned by blood sweat and tears. The other one was "Thanks for saving me from the last guys we stole shit from, now give us everything we demand or you're anti semitic".
There is a pretty wide difference between having lost a fight, and regretting giving a beggar the chance to backstab us after we fought and bled for them.
We respect warriors more than snakes. Hence why commies are so disgusting to the man of reason as well.
@@bluelick7578 doesn't mean anything. A lose is a lose and a win is a win. They won. We lost
except the white people didnt steal it.
lol the princess bride line. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The actor playing Col. Miles actually looks like someone from that time.
I believe that's Shaun Johnston
We all kind of look like from that time because we're their descendants whose face has been passed on by our fathers for millennia. The only difference is our facial hair.
Good costume design.
Cause he’s a Canadian Anglo Celtic with some Dutch admixture.
Loved him in Heartland
Probably the strongest scene I’ve never heard of - the acting was off the charts
I think the lesson here is very simple. And it pertains to both these men.
Condemning the bloodshed in one’s history does not erase that in your own.
Finally. Someone here who's talking sense.
Its simpler than that: the winners write the history books.
Here’s a really hard truth: land belongs to those who have the strength, will, and wisdom to defend it. History has winners and losers…
@@cgavin1Not true.
If this was the case, The Lost Cause would have never existed.
@@acidz0037 What Wass said.
I don't think I have found a more perfect dialog. Honor and pride on one side, and the other historically correct and with facts on it's side, but both tainted by the greed and violence of man.
Tbch both are idiots.
There was never fact behind the US side when it came to natives. They painted every narrative they wanted to find reasons to commit genocide. To this day we still get pushed around and y’all dipshits want to say it’s because we were savages. The real savages are the people that pushed us out of our homes, relocated us and used our lands for slavery. We got painted as the bad guys because we were brown and had land they wanted. That’s the fact. Not some bullshit about us constantly fighting each other, that was because white guy pisses off a native tribe and promises land back to another if they help defend the white guy. Then they don’t do it and rinse and repeat until they’re all too weak or just dead.
That’s what white history won’t tell you.
White washed evil genocidal version of a story yeah
@@mikeynorcross3222 Native americans also genocide other tribes.
@@Rameon No we already know. We learned it in class or we figure it out. 🤷♀️
I still love America though.
This is the first ever true account of the history of the USA I have even seen acted in a cinematic way. Excellent!
Yes, agreed. I was shocked by this scene.
Col Miles is correct. Look at the Mayans and Aztecs. Look at the Comanche in Texas. Those tribes thirsted on the blood of other tribes, and did so before the arrival of white men. There is a reason why many tribes sided with the Spanish and the Tejanos, instead of their fellow Natives.
And look what happened, forced assimilation. Paper genocide.
@@Nativestyles Penjeda.
@@brittanyhayes1043 no mames😂
Doesn't change the fact the white man's greed left no room for others
@@saskk2290 skull issue
And that my friends, is the story of history in a nutshell, whether we like it or not.
Exactly. Everyone has been conquered at one point or another and everyone has been the conquerer. There is no human lineage with clean hands.
"B-b-b-but... MY people were the last ones to be conquered... Therefore we never got the chance for revenge and that means we deserve special treatment..."
@@jacobhargiss3839 If beeing a merciless douchbag with no empathy, capable of exterminating the tribe from the next valley, just because you had a bad harvest this year, meant no evulationary advantage, this kind of people would have gone extinct long time ago, and we would be a much more peacefull spicies by now......
But we are not........
Who claims it isn't?
@@JamesMorgan-ne8qu The American public education system.
“You didn’t sprout from the plains like the spring grasses”
Got em
Nor did they coalesce out of the Aether.
It's true enough. They descended from Adam & Eve like everyone.
We also didn't come from Asia, Regurgitate your Christ cuck Zionist nonsense elsewhere
@@gcHK47
They came out of the Minnesota woodlands, armed to the teeth and set upon their fellow man.
True, but the Treaty of 1868 giving the Black Hills to the Lakota Sioux, was broken by white prospectors and entrepreneurs who flooded into Sioux Territory and the Black Hills in 1875 and 1876 when gold was discovered there in 1874 by Custer and his Black Hills Expedition. If gold wasn't discovered in Deadwood gulch, there never would have been a Battle of The Little Bighorn, or the subsequent battles that saw the end of the free roaming Sioux and Northern Cheyenne.
I’m Oglala Lakota. I am proud to say my people fought till the very end. Our blood and spirit lives on.
True warriors wouldn't have it any other way; respect.
@@mikek5958 But it's not the very end yet. You're still alive.
The Lakota became part of a bigger nation. And they have served honorably as warriors for that nation. I would not call that an end.
@@MjV-jd2lo They lost. It ended.
@odious5317 no they didn't. They can still take it back
Colonel Miles spitting facts like bullets from a light machine gun.
More like a heavy machine gun...
@@haroldsmith8454 More like a gatling gun
@@thejohhny2943 BRRRRRRT from the GAU on an A10.
Self-serving bullshit
Don’t be crying like a little baby 😢when the minority in the USA become the majority it’s just a matter of a another decade and building a southern wall isn’t going to save you 😉
"for no less noble a cause..." The crux of the entire conversation.
What does crux mean?
@@bonquequedickison4080 'Crux' means the central theme, or rather, the entire point of the conversation.
@@bonquequedickison4080Crux means "cross". Literally and figuratively. It's used to denote where several things in an argument "cross" or intersect, making it the most important point and what any cogent argument would be based off of.
I hope you don’t think that’s a knock on the Europeans. It was pretty noble of them to secure what would become the greatest country in the world with their blood sweat and tears.
@@forfun6273 via possibly the bloodiest genocide in history
Colonel Miles is my grandmother's grandfather. I'm named after him. This is the first time I've ever seen him presented as a character in a story, and damn, if the real man was anything like that, I am okay with being named after him.
He won the Medal of Honor during the Civil War and became "Commander of the Army" incredible career.
@NoBody-xg1wg is your distant cousin
@andrewbaker3855 Medal of Honor pre WWI does not mean what it does today. Ppl were awarded it during the Indian Wars for going to get water..
The criteria pre Boxer Rebellion(1900ish) was not remotely comparable to what today's ppl, mostly influenced by WWII and Vietnam citations, would expect.
TLDR, pre WWII MoH was almost always worth a Bronze Star with Valor device at best.
@wolfofthewest8019 Who asked
He also gives a damn good argument for why it's ok for Islam to conquer the west.
It is almost impossible to believe that Hollywood allowed a honest movie like this to be made
It’s amazing how writing works. One little line of dialogue makes this scene a thousand times more powerful “for no less noble a cause”
Trace it back far enough and we can all agree that humans stole that land from mammoths.
and those damn furry elephants stole it from the lizards, who stole it from the amphibians, who stole it from the arthropods, who stole it from the prototrees, which were the first original inhabitants of land
@@squgiemannah bruv, don't forget that micro bacteria
@@kingsadvisor18 And there you have the true villain of this long sad and violent story, it's a conspiracy I tell you.
And they stole it from the dinosaurs.
Are you going to assume that alligators lived in the desert too?
When the Corps of Discovery, the Lewis and Clark Expedition, wintered with the Mandans near Council Bluffs before heading up the Missouri River, they were told that when they go up the river, they will meet a people who will not listen.
These were those people.
In other words, every other tribe knew these guys were sophistic assholes!
Everybody is from someplace else. Just focus on living a peaceful existence wherever you have to go to find it. We don't own this earth and will be separated from it no matter what we believe.
Back when movies actually contained wisdom, knowledge and the truth.
Love this movie.
and probably inaccurate dialogue
Dude, its from 2007. It's not some begone era lost to time. Its the same age as Facebook, so would we speak to someone who first saw Facebook come out as if they are some venerable elder of forgotten wisdom?
These comments are so wholesome. This is how we establish peace and understanding of both sides
But the natives DID establish peace or so they thought
They helped the pilgrims and they returned the favor with thanksgiving
Oh yeah and the concept of “owning” land is a white thing
Stop with the propaganda
..easily my favorite interaction scene between leaders in any movie..
Ever see Outlaw Josie Wales
His meeting with Ten Bears
meh, the coversation between King Baldwin and Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven is leagues better in my opinion. Tho this one isn't without its merits.
@@TheBarber5550Oooh I love that scene ❤
Some areas of the world have been conquered and retaken a dozen times throughout history. The brutal struggle for dominance. King of the Hill.
It continues today, among many races, tribes and adversaries. Humanity..
The Apache name is derived from a Spanish transliteration of ápachu, the term for “enemy” in Zuñi. To the Zuñi, the Apache were marauders.
Then the Apache became friends to fight the Comanche. The Comanche were the hardest mf on the plains.
@@EpochUnlockedThe Pawnee would have something to say about that.
fun fact: a lot of native american tribe names come from their ennemies
@@KaosKrusherImagine a tribe having the opportunity to nickname their enemies for the european settlers;
Colonial: Hao, Chief Sweet Cheeks ✋😃
Indian Chief: Wtf? 🤨
@@KaosKrusher It makes sense if you think about it spatially. Happens the world over. For instance, why do we refer to China as 'China' and not 'The Middle Kingdom' or 'Zhongguo' or some latinized version of it? It's because we went though India first and 'China' is derived from the Indian name for it.
Same thing for the native indian tribes. Usually we would talk to native tribes and get information from them on who is around them. It might be months or years before we actually interacted with those neighboring tribes ourselves.
No legends, no myths, no narratives...
Only TRUTH
SJWs and Liberals will say: "Well OUR TRUTH says...."🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Not really . Farce.
lol the whole western movie industry is just amusement park carp. “No legends” 😂😂😂😂 go play with your broom stick horse
🐮💩
no. this is pure myth. 660 treaties, 500 broken, is not conquest and not the same as the "sioux" migrating into south dakota to evade white people diseases in the 1500s
Finally an actually truthful depiction of what each side was actually like. Neither was without flaws. Both had admirable qualities.
I've made this point over and over. Native Americans were slaughtering, raping, enslaving other tribes before the Vikings arrived in North America.
There is nothing admirable of the American conquest of North America. It's admirable qualities today are not a result of it's continental war
Truth huh? Or is it more aligned to the truth you want.
Truth is....as portrayed. Inconvenient?@@steveatwater4364
@@steveatwater4364 I'm betting it is simply not in agreement with the story you choose to tell.
Who had the balls to write this incredible dialogue.
Certainly nobody from Hollywood.
@@Hustadathis is a Hollywood film😑
@@VMohdude- not in 2024.
@@Hustada the hell does that even mean?
@@VMohdude- I was assuming(I guess wrongly) that people would know I’m talking about modern day Hollywood. Modern day Hollywood would not make a movie like this. Or more accurately, a scene like this. Maybe I’m wrong? Just seems to me that most of Hollywood seems fully entrenched in DEI type thinking.
"The strong will do what they can and the weak will suffer what they must." - Melian dialog.
"Justice is the advantage of the stronger." - Thrasymachus
The Athenians were ruthless in that account. Honestly chilling to read.
Thucydides
@@EveryCarpet
Being stronger does not mean justice per se. It just means stronger.
@@Briselance My interpretation of Thrasmachus' argument was that justice itself does not exist, rather, that those with strength cloak themselves in justice to make their victory more palatable to their enemies.
Personally, that is true, but true justice exists. It is simply convenient for people to cloak themselves in virtue when they do vice. Thus is all biological life.
Atleast once a month I inject “DO NOY SPEAK TO ME OF RED CLOUD” into a conversation and leave everyone very bewildered.
Dead funny, made me laugh out loud in my office. I'm going to try it out on my squaw, sorry, wife.
So do I bro, so do i😂
I, too, am known to indulge in random recitations of movie and TV show quotes at inappropriate times. Gotta let some of the crazy out every now and then. 😅
He was a CONSUL of ROME !!!
@@andrewg.carvill4596 poor Pompey!
Silent pauses in conversations can be really powerful when making a point
I absolutely love this scene. Such a even and grey point of view, which is how it really is sometime.
All of our ancestors are warriors, you wouldn't be here otherwise. That scene is powerful because it is honest and shows both perspectives realistically. I will never fault anyone who believes they are defending their home, and when it comes to any American vs American Indian conflict, both sides, right or wrong, believe they are defending their home. God bless all American Indians. Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull will never die, they live forever in the soul of America herself. They are true Americans and true American warriors, as much as anyone in our illustrious history.
Very true. If only a peaceful solution was reached.
@@warrennicholsony.fernando4513 One was, Treaty of Fort Laramie 1868.... It was broken by the US government because some dudes found gold in the Blackhills. Hell they abandoned forts along the Bozeman trail as a result of the Treaty. Fort Fetterman outside of Story Wyoming, where Red Cloud's War started, was abandoned because of the Treaty of Fort Laramie. But then a year later some dudes found gold in the Blackhills of Wyoming and South Dakota and well, that's when things heated up again, and the military ignored the treaty so that prospectors could get rich.
@@stagalgiz1097 Wasn’t the military who ignored it(though there were plenty of Army dipshits). Look higher. It was the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Interior Dept., and ultimately President Grant…who all caved to the whims of prospectors(Indians don’t vote). But one good thing came out of the Custer expedition for gold…
How can they be Indians if they’re not from India?
@@Ash_Rein You clearly do not know anything about American Indians just by making that comment. Only PC virtue-signaling leftists who know nothing about anything refer to them as Native Americans. All scholars on the subject and basically all American Indians themselves still refer to the indigenous population of North America as Indians regardless of if you are offended are not. However, to answer your question historically, when Columbus landed in the Bahamas he thought originally he was in the Indonesian Islands or East Indies and referred to the indigenous population he made contact with as Indians because he was not aware at the moment that he was in the "New World" or what would later be known as America. As a result, the term Indian stuck for literally centuries and still to this day for most people who actually care about the subject and culture.
As a member of the Cherokee tribe (native American ID and everything), I can confirm: tribes have attacked and massacred other tribes for no more than lands and gain. Some whites did do horrible things to innocent natives. And some natives did horrible things to peaceable and innocent whites.
It is better to forgive each other, KEEP peace that is made and unify than bring up old hatreds.
And as a member of the Cherokee, I don't need apologies or gifts or special privileges. Pity and charity is an insult to men in my tribe. It's given to orphans and widows, not anyone else.
Fair enough.
I'm not going to downplay the accomplishments of my ancestors, but I agree. I've traveled Europe quite a bit and I am of mainly English, Scottish, and German descent. If you've never been to Eurpope, I can tell you, castles are a dime a dozen. On our last trip to Scotland I really started focusing on the history of each one vs the architecture and function. Bascilly it came down to one dude taking shit from another dude and building something to protect it or show it off. It was a little disheartening, but still, great accomplishments and I respect the ones that tried to be fair. It's hard to debate that great societies have risen from these "dudes" fighting.
Innocent whites?😂😂😂😂
I have friends who are Mescalero, White Mountain and Jicarilla Apache and they echo your words.
As a person of White descent from Brazil, I can say: I agree with you - we fought and killed eachother for far too long, and now, its too tiresome to carry on with the grudge...
The widows and orphans indeed deserve land of their own. We, man, can work for ourselves to achieve it.
I believe you know the bitter taste of ash when you "win" - yeah, I finally got it...
..but at what cost? Why? For who?
It seems we are haunted by the ghosts of our ancestors, who thought little of their descendents, and demanded blood for the sake of their pride, and in the process, it broke ALL of us...
Could listen to this kind of dialogue and performance for hours man. Damn good.
I listen to it anytime I have a hard conversation up ahead of me. Note how Miles doesn't get distracted by counteraccusations and misdirection. He doesn't defend his or anyone else's actions. He just keeps spitting facts. That is the way to make your point. Don't get defensive; stay on point. Make the other guy lose his cool first.
@@soldat2501 very good points!
This is the Story of all People, No one is Innocent or more Guilty than the other
Miles didn't mention the Crows, who's land the Sioux were on at Little Big Horn, and why the Crows helped the army fight them.
@@tomasmccauley569 Actually they DID have it 'returned to them'. The land where the battle was fought is on the Crow Reservation.
@@tomasmccauley569 The Crow have always been friends to the U.S.
colonazi 'divide and conquer'
@@sandycarlak3027 Can confirm, I have driven through it many times.
the Arikaras too.
*150 years later*
"THIS IS NATIVE LAND, GRINGO!" ...said the descendant of Spanish conquistadors
Relatable and factual.
You get this all the time if you're a White dude in South Texas. Too relatable.
@@blehblehk5955 The irony is that their great-grandmothers bred with Spanish men.
Those from spanish decent or at about 30% at most. Just as today, what you call Mexican is mostly Native American
@@blehblehk5955Fun fact: Mexicans and Latin Americans were by in large considered White by the Census until the mid-20th Century, due to their Spanish roots.
As long as there are two people on this rock, someone is gonna want someone dead!
OR we can just make hard, unlubricated, gay sex?
"As a species, we're fundamentally insane. You put more than two of us in a room, we start thinking up reasons to kill one-another." - The Mist (2007)
Its not even about us as a species. Long extinct animals have been killing and hunting even members of the same species since long before we existed.
They both had their points but the general was mainly in the right, many lands have switched hands between tribes or countries, strong enough to take it but too weak to defend it.
Our country and us ( Natives & Whites ) have had a long, complicated, bloody history.
I wish we could have all lived amongst one another peacefully.
But the truth is...
Ideals are peaceful but history is violent.
I pray that someday we all as Americans can truly forgive and love each other for what our ancestors did to one another.
God bless.
I love how this one clip completely obliterates the Myth of the Noble Savage.
Exactly. They were not peaceful peoples.
Yes. The message is whoever can kill everybody else is the winner
You sir know the zeitgeist and I'm relieved to see you as a first comment via mobile. Props from Qc.
Indeed. Humanity has been butchering each other for hundreds of thousands of years. It makes land claims a wee bit murky.
It helps to read more. They were living in peace abiding by the treaty signed by Conquering Bear in 1851 and in 1854 the US Army shot Conquering Bear in the back, killing him, starting the First Sioux War.
This is an excellent clip. Neither side was completely noble nor completely in the right. If you’re going to truly understand the indian wars, you have to understand that. There was right and wrong a plenty on both sides. Welcome to humanity.
Very, very, very rarely is a war ever good vs bad, or right vs wrong. It is always gray vs gray. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s just a matter of which side you see as light gray, and which side you see as dark gray.
@@howardbaxter2514 War is not a question of morality. It's just question who's more powerful. Just like when people say "it's just my preference" well so is war. If you can win you win. If you loose well... suck's for you. I think though there is ethical way you should go about doing or else we risk extreme collateral damage and extinction.
@@Not-ApThere is no ethical way to wage war. There are only morally justifiable reasons to go to war.
@@nathanielkidd2840war has only ever existed for money and power. Morality is what they sell to the people at home that will inevitably be catching the bullets. Their is no justifiable reason for war outside of conquest, unless you happen to believe the recruitment posters.
YOU’RE
True…..does not make either side correct but many tribes dominated others. Took their lands, their horses and their women.
Many years ago in a Native American studies class I pointed this out, that you are condemning one group for doing what every other group in America did, they just won!
His response was basically “Well, Whites didn’t originate in the Americas”. I then pointed out neither did the “Natives”. He ignored my questions for the rest of the class.
They don’t like it when you challenge their prejudices.
There are many who can't deal with those who think for themselves.
did europeans spring out of the soil in europe? go back to the eurasian steppe, europe doesn't belong to you.
@@barreloffun10 Dear God, the irony.
It would be quite easy for the teacher to counter your statement, but you were probably identified as not interested in learning in that moment, so the lesson continued- instead of chasing your challenges down a rabbit hole.
@@oneangrymelon If it's so easy, what is your counterargument?
I am part Taino native, and even my ancestors had wars with the Caribe tribe far before the Europeans arrived. Man will conquer man. It's human history.
Caribes were also Tainos. I live in a region where they used to live too.
Weren't they even known for ritual cannibalism in some tribes?
@Ilovecaptainjack224 Yes, they found that among some of the native Caribbean tribes, mostly the Arawak and the Tupinamba tribes.
@@samaritan_sys same with European Catholicism
@@fbyi2940 European Catholicism practiced literal ritual cannibalism?
We don't see acting like this anymore in period films. Great scene. 👍
This should be shown at all schools and universities
Is a movie , romanticed fiction
0:37 I always thought that the blanket guy did his job with such style. He must've stayed up all night practicing how smooth he wanted his big moment to look.
Heck, as he's walking away he even does one of those moves where his arm is half extended outward and he makes a fist like, "yes! Nailed it!"
I love crazyassed comments like this. Agree with you DD.
This needs to go viral. A part of history that has gone hidden for way too long make it go viral!!!
It’s common knowledge mate
@@DaChunkil8or no its not, the vast majority of kids are just taught the "bad" things white settlers did
@DaChunkil8or Not amongst the far left. I had several people call me a liar, refuse to discuss it and one guy wanted to fight me because I said indians "colonized" each other constantly. So no, I wish it was, but there are people who cling to the myth like a safety blanket.
@@bigguy7353 What point is there in discussing the Native American history with extremists? You are just as likely to run into a far right person claiming their native blood means they're owned respect and lands, just for being born with super special blood which implies a legacy. They will only see history though a lens that they can personally benefit from.
@@Edax_Royeaux I don't think you're going to find many far right extremists with native blood claiming they're owed anything. First, I highly doubt there's many far right extremists who aren't white and if they are, I highly doubt they openly admit they're of mixed race decent...and second, entitlement isn't a big part of Conservatism. Tends to be more of a "Make do for yourself. Survival of the fittest" type of mentality.
Either way, you are absolutely correct about the futility of arguing with either "extreme" end of the political spectrum. In America's current political state, you're going to get nothing but the party narrative from those types of people. Why even waste the time?
Fantastic actor. He has that stern stare, posture and solid voice of a gentleman of old.
It's a very specific vibe he gives off that grabs you attention and never lets go.
I wonder why we didn't hear more from this guy
Lately he's been in the show heartland for over 14 seasons and still going@@johnnyskinwalker4095
I'm enamored of the man playing Miles. I haven't seen him before, yet he has such presence and charisma. Those eyes. That stare. Why isn't he an A list movie star? I watch this scene over and over again.
I wish things like this were taught more in history class. Neither side were virtuous, they just fought for the future of their people. That is what most wars have been about.
Isn't fighting for the future of your people kind of virtuous? That's the ultimate lesson in human history. There are no bad guys. Only people who think they are making the world a better place.
@@IamaCosmonautexactly no war has been purely evil
German soldiers were fighting for their country and for freedom and to in their opinion save humanity, American and allied soldiers were told they were fighting for freedom and democracy, the Taliban were fighting for their people and religion against a foreign oppressive occupation and American soldiers were fighting “terrorism”
One side was more virtuous than others. Escaping britain to live a better life and one side wants to protect its title. The good natives were blessings but they weren't the ones instigating.
Losers just get the "moral high ground" of a victim as a solace.
@@punishedgloyperstormtroope8098
>le Germany good
lmao
An honest man. He told the truth.
"You conquered those tribes, lusting for their game and their lands, just as we have now conquered you for no less noble a cause."
If you want a sentence that sums up all of human interaction throughout history, white, black, middle eastern, native american, asian, whatever, that's it.
True words... just some of us are better at it. It's the resulting society that matters.
No you are just ignorant.
Greece with Alexander the great used native chief children to rule his conquest succeeding to assimilate these people...from Greece to Himalaya.
The military conquest was followed by an educational work including these native in order to instaure a peaceful administration.
Nothing to do with american.
Most of them were adventurers looking for money quickly.
To rob and to kill is the shortest way to get rich...then you write your own national myth of democraty and so on...
@@Virtus555 If that were true, it would be the warlords and despots in power. The lust for territory spelled the downfall of the USSR, and it'll spell the downfall of Russia next.
@@Virtus555 Power and strength are two very separate concepts. "God created men, Colt made them equal..."
@@Virtus555 It though means of power, not strength, that nations like Costa Rica, which does not possess a military, or Luxembourg, which as of 2022 only has 900 soldiers, continue to exist. We don't live entirely in a world of might make right anymore. It's not worth asserting strength and invading Luxembourg to gain wealth and land anymore.
Land cannot be stolen, only won or lost.
Where do you live
@ It doesn’t matter. Every people have faced invasion and conquest at some point.
Where do you live
Oh, the folks who are going to come and take your house and land away have to remember that line.
@ Not without a fight. And the Indians did fight. They just lost.
I like how they both sit down and talk
Col acknowledging their differences and speaking to him in respect and others tradition.
The only thing this misses is how much of the land the North American tribes lost was largely due to trade. Europeans would settle a region and this would actually attract the tribes. One tribe would attempt to monopolize access to the Europeans, because they wanted control over the trade of European firearms and even liquor. This meant they now had superiority over other tribes. It also meant they could profit from the trade of other tribes, since everything had to go through them. Plenty of European exploration was driven by the desire to circumvent these tribes denying access to other tribes who would sell their goods (furs typically) at lower prices.
In the 1500-1600s most conflicts between Europeans and the tribes went in the tribes' favour, but while they could win the battles, they did not have the supplies to win the wars because the settlers always had access to European markets and reinforcements.
Things like this are often left out of history. Doesn't benefit the narrative. Did you know that the Boers bought much of the land in South Africa? It was terrible land, poor for development and nobody wanted it. The people that lived there were paid and allowed to stay living there. The Boers forged a modern nation out of nothing. People from the north of there, once it was developed, moved south, violently displacing the native inhabitants. These are the people that made claim to the territory and the world was all too happy to carry their water. Nobody talks about this or the fact that Mandela and his wife were violent terrorists.
@@cvn6555 Also much of the land was literal wasteland and there were no occupants. The Boers basically made something out of nothing!
@@noreply-7069 Yes, they did. And as soon as it became a nice, prosperous place the ANC people swooped in and violently displaced the previous natives and claimed the land. They cannot build, they can only seize and destroy. We see just how shockingly bad SA has become in a few years. They cannot run a country on their own. Too greedy, crooked, stupid and lazy.
Beautiful scene. There are very few, very, very few civilizations that can claim any moral superiority to how they claimed their lands. It is only in how those lands, and the people who live in them, are ruled that a civilizations can justify any cause for war.
One could argue that humans are the ultimate "species-ists." Every species that inhabited the lands the hominins "stole" from them would probably like to have a word with us, haha. ;)
Lands are not possessed : they are gained and lost.
dalmations maybe,Istrians, Thracians. Punjabi. Persians. Thta about it
Lands are won, and lost, through bloodshed. We should do well to not repeat the mistakes of our ancestors and learn to accept what we have in the now. What’s done cannot be undone, but we can still try to make what will be better for all that come after us.
It is interesting to look at civilizations who practiced evils. The Aztec come to mind with their massive slavery, torture, and murder of other Central American Indians. They were toppled by the Spainish. I have always wondered if it was for material or moral grounds. Yes, the Spanish wanted gold and silver but they also were Catholics who wished to follow their holy doctrine. Both morality and greed were factors I'm sure but is one weightier than another? Humans are very complex.
I read the book in my teens - it changed my whole world -
do you remember whether this scene (or something similar) is in the book?
@@CassiusDX I can't recall -sorry - and I didn't watch the film because so many important books have been butchered by film - I was 14 or 15 when I read it and that was fifty years ago - I think I might search out another copy and re -read it after watching your clip - I'm surprised you haven't read it - it's one of those milestone book's - Gerry Docherty's book Hidden History is another -
@@StellaAsh what's the name of the book?
@@tylerdurden4080 bruv
@@tylerdurden4080 Bury My Knee at Wounded Heart
Honestly surprised this scene, nay, this entire film has not yet been cancelled.
4 laws of nature:
1. If you wanted it, you took it.
2. If you couldn't take it, you didn't have it.
3. If you had something, you defended it.
4. If you couldn't defend it, you lost it.
Yep.
One thing you miss: those of us who give, out of the abundance of our heart and wallet. Few of those who are like that but God sees all.
@@edharley7254,
The original commenter uses a secular model, not a Biblical one.
Most of not all civilizations and armies have taken anything over the course of history by the 'right of conquest'.
Well said.
I believe this can apply to Africa as well; tribe vs tribe before the White man.
And slavery is still rife in Libya
I believe it applies to all of humanity no matter where they are from.
White Man is simply the stronger tribe.
Luzur white people were Champs at deceiving...
@@SwedishEmpire1700 True.
That's a lot of cold, hard truth said here for tender 2024 sensibilities.
SPOT ON !! well said.
Amen brother.
There's also a lot of lies being stated as well.
@@yessum15 they werent fighting each other?
you can actually agree/disagree with both sides, as much as it was the natives decision to get them guns, they needed them to defend themselves against the same white men who sold the guns to them, they also were warriors, which means they lived to fight, the problem was that they went too far to the point of annihilating all the other tribes, they got too greedy and that was played against them. In the case of the Americans, you can never forget the massacres perpetrated by them against native women and children and their greed for acquiring all of north america for themselves, they literally tried to take over Canada, Cuba and Mexico as well, if that happened they would of also taken south america, no doubt about it.