since when were you under the impression that Nasu actually checks the translations? If Albert and his lackeys find dozens of excuses to actively rewrite the original authors' text, changing the characters and stories in the process, then of course they want to stick with "Altria"and blame it on Nasu's decision.
Ik a lot of people like to meme with this line, but damn if it doesn't fit in this context perfectly. If you take a look at the better translations, this line roughly reads as "You're right just for the sake of being right". And that's EXACTLY what's going on here. The name Artoria is important not only cz of the whole Artorius thingy but also cz we're familiar with it. While Altria might be TECHNICALLY correct, that's all it is. It's just correct. But it's not "right" as in it doesn't hold any weight or substance. Just hollow righteousness.
I'm still gonna call her Artoria because it just fits her like a glove and doesn't confuse me to no end. What shocked me is the fact that Kari was still able to voice Artoria even after the UBW stuff lol. I've been in the devil may cry kick lately so forgive me if this is starting to sound a little bit odd because I'm thinking of lady wielding a sword now.
Reminds of Alucard from Hellsing (Dracula backwards) and how dumbass execs tried to get them to pronounce it as Arucard in the dub and they had to fight like hell to get it to stay as Alucard. But their victory wasn't total, as they compromised and he's still known as "Arucard" in the blurb on the back of the DVD.
The historical "Artorius" is actually written in Japanese as "Altorius" so it's possible that Nasu thinks "Altria" is somehow the more academic way to write it.
@@unrankedchevron742 It's written in japanese katakana aka the way they write loan words and is written as アルトリア which is pronounced "Arutoria" in japanese there is no diffrence between L and R so someone at type moon might have thought this makes more sense when... it doesn't
Whenever someone calls Saber Altria for some reason they have to also shit on people who think Artoria is right, that's the main reason why I hate the name to be honest, originally I just disliked it then moved on but the people who called Altria had to just be assholes (not everyone, probably not the majority, but a big number of people and heck even FGO youtubers).
@@asteriskonline3494 honestly I just think both camps are being asses. It’s a made up name to a genderswapped character. And the official name is still King Arthur. Nasu chose the “accurate” spelling and we just cope and move on. He gives zero shits about our disagreements because he never “changed” it. Fansubbers and small localizers used Artoria for a few years until Nasu caught wind of it and smacked everyone upside the head.
The last thing I expected to see in my feed was The4thSnake talking about Fate. It’s nice that he prefers the once and future spelling Artoria. Now I’m curious about his other takes on this franchise. I would really like to see one of my favorite ‘critics’ talk more about this series I happen to like.
This katakana romanisation stuff reminds me of when X called Launch Octopus "Octopardo" in X5's English translation based on his Japanese name's katakana 「オクトパルド」(Okutoparudo) when the name was officially romanised as Launcher Octopuld, and when Quattro from Zeta Gundam's last name was originally romanised as "Vagina" before being switched to "Bajeena" which is closer to the pronunciation of the katakana 「バジーナ」(Bajiina/Baziina). Interesting how this stuff comes about.
I really wish as well Typemoon goes back on that name but I sincerely think it's not happening at this point. There's so much merch sold under that name and it's been quite a while since they took that direction.
thank you for making sure my birthday gift is as factually correct and well researched as it could be, Snake. (note: this video is not made for me, the 4th Snake barely even knows me. it's just a joke about one of my favorite RUclipsrs making a video about one of my favorite franchises on a subject that I agree with him on, and that video being uploaded on my birthday.)
Many series have this, Berserk for example has "Knight of Skeleton" as Skull Knight's name because of a long times ago mistranslation and the client enforces the official translations to keep this name, another interesting example I saw was in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure portuguese dub where certain stand names were directly translated and others not because of this policy, even though this time makes it even more inconsistent, if consistency was ever the main reason. It's an unfortunate yet frequent occurance, at least the community has a consensus that these are nonsense and use the "more correct" names.
"All we do is hope that Nasu gets a clue and reverses the decision because this is just stupid." As someone who has spent way too much of their life consuming TYPE-MOON, this basically encapsulates every stupid thing about the company's works.
When I first joined the fate fandom I thought Altria was just the alter version of Artoria like jalter for Jeanne. Honestly, I still really didn't realise exactly what the difference was until this video so thanks
I mean.. I get why is that in Japanese, since with Japanese phonetics "Altria" and "Atroria" are effectively alternative spelling... Someone higher-up however seem to be not aware that it makes no sense in the other languages and I don't think any person natively using language traditionally writen with Latin script would think that "yes, Altria and Artoria are effectivelly the same". This name was supposed to be female version of the latin name Artorius, it's directly stated by Nasu and other creators. This name is one of the reasons why Moriarty in Shinjuku guessed that she's King Arthur and connection to the "Artorius" was openly stated in the story. Also, one more funny thing: "Artoria" is a legit name that exists adn there were people named like that (mostly Roman women)
Altria being short for her Alter makes depressing sense when you realize that her Alter has completely eclipsed her in terms of relevance these last six years.
I think the issue here is the "o" in Art*o*ria. Altria is a valid but weird romanization cuz there's no emphasis on the "o" part of the name. For Nasu, that means he interprets the name Artorius as "Altlius" It doesn't help that the male name Arthur doesnt emphasis the "o" because in japanese Arthur is *Asa/Atha*
Didn't even know that there was a name discrepancy. Probably because i'm ignoring FGO. Well "Arturia" was the spelling i first saw in the unofficial English patch and i'm sticking with that. thank you very much🙂
Can someone explain to me how the fuck I have 5 versions of her and am only now picking up on this? I thought Altria was just for her alter versions lmao
I remember somewhere around 2021, I was fucking around in a discord server, and said something about Artoria. Some person decided to go “Um actually it’s Altria”. And that left me speechless because I’ve been calling her Artoria ever since I got into Fate, yet I’ve also never heard of that in my life until now
I'm fine with "Arthuria", "Arturia" or "Artoria", but "Altria" really does sound strange. I can see "Altria" inside of Arutoria, but the same can be said to Artoria, and Artoria just sounds better
It's all about perspective. Let's grab Oda Nobunaga, let's turn him into a girl, and then change the name to reflect this into: Adele Nobunaga. It doesn't fit, not now not ever.
It's not just a "serviceable feminine equivalent", it's a real name. Lucius Artorius Castus was called Artorius because he was a member of the gens [family] Artoria. Artoria is the historical feminine form or Artorius. Look up "Artoria gens."
You've talked about the deaths of Cage, do you know about the 2 creepy audio files in MK3? One is about Cage's funeral where it says he was killed by Kintaro in MK2 at 29 years old and the other is Tis The Voice Of The Lobster but in a terrifying setting. There's not much on them online.
I agree with this take, but considering how bad the fate franchise is with history or rather how often it blatantly ignores real stories that supposedly inspire their characters, this is no surprise for me
Is it time again for my standard comment on the issue? It is ｱﾙﾄﾘｱ (A-R(u)-T(o)-R[i]-A/A-L(u)-T(o)-R[i]-A), for which I prefer the reading Artoria (thanks to Artos = bear and Lucius Artorius Castus being likely both connected to the name Arthur). Which means technically Altria is possible. But that ignores all the etymological stuff connected to Artoria. Which is why I don't use Altria for any of them. Artoria (Saber) Alter is for me (and many other people) Salter as a nickname. (A carry-over from the old times of hidden Servant names from before FGO) Artoria (Lancer) is for me Latoria or Tittytoria depending on how I feel as a nickname and Lancer (Alter) is Laltoria or just the King of Storms. Artoria (Ruler) is Bunnytoria. And the character that has her name but is not her (Artoria Caster) is of course Castoria as a nickname.
@@erois6190 Ἄρτος / artos (Greek) means bread, but artos is an old Celtic word for bear (compare artos in Gaulish, arth in Welsh and Cornish, arzh (in older forms ard or arth) in Breton, and art in Old Irish).
Aniplex. That is your answer right there. Aniplex has a history of never admitting they made an oppsie and will vehemently argue to the contrary until the money dries up. Money makes right in Aniplex's eyes. So until a new Fate property topples FGO in finances we will never see this correction be made. Just keep calling her Artoria like how Space Ishtars name should be Astarte not Ashtart. Like whats Aniplex's deal with ugly names anyways?
I mean... Aniplex being responsible makes sense here. Since in Japan spelling "Altria" is used, they might enforce it to keep thing consistent wwith the merchandise or something.
It’s technically not incorrect as Japanese people can use si when romanizing Japanese words as they don’t have a “see” sound, but just kinda weird for English translation. It’s cause the vowel sounds for s are sa shi su se so, but obviously for a Japanese person the sh- would be unnecessary if they don’t have a “see” sound so they could just write si. Well, more accurately no native Japanese word uses the see sound, but hopefully you get the point.
I've played FGO for like 5 minutes some 4 years and I forgot this was a thing. The name Altria makes me think she's supposed to be a Pokemon, it's too similar to Altaria.
What i thought when first hearing it, then i got into FGO saw *Altria* and was completely confused. Even thought at one point maybe this is a different..alternate..original Artoria? 🤔🤔
both are correct connotations of the spelling "artoria" but mostly because of the elogated "aa" sound the correct pronunciation would be altria. it's the same with the katakana spelling of "arthur" "アーサー” = pronounced as "aa-saa" so usually the latter makes sense. obviously the english localization is using the correct pronunciation but regardless, it can be read two ways actually especially when you go to japanese conventions they say both pronunciations.
It’s just kinda dumb when Artoria resembles Arthur far more than Altria in English, the language modern British people speak. Also the long vowel sound being used when Japanese turns foreign names or words into katakana is inconsistent. Mordred becomes Moodoreddo, but Morgan becomes Morugan and not Moogan or the other way around.
@@andrewli6606 pretty much what I said lol it's really inconsistent especially if you go meet with different people in japan, but correct me if I'm wrong katakana phonetic pronunciations for native speakers should still be more considered they speak around the word elongated vowels to say two nouns so I understand part of why altria was the main localization but that really doesn't change that the point is that it can be said both ways which just makes the localization really bad both for translating and implementing in early fate days. it's the localization team that's at fault for this, it's a canon title name now there's nothing we really can do about this. tho I still see most of the canon material use artoria itself in most.
Localization causing confusion? What next, you gonna tell me the online game in Persona 3 used the names from Megami Tensei instead of Persona 2, or that Chie was referencing a famous Japanese detective instead of name dropping Raidou Kuzunoha in Persona 4? ... I'm sorry, I only know localization stuff relating to Megami Tensei and that one yaoi manga where a male character dressed up as a female.
My guess is that Altria looks more exotic or feminine than Artoria, or there were concerns that it may be seen as too literal a transliteration. You wouldn’t want someone calling Waver Weiba.
Fate is very good;however, the only draw back for me is the constant genderbending of some of its characters. It's very disrespectful to the actual people in history and legends.
Struggled with this at times. I mean i get it considering most Otakus are men and hey Waifus sell but then i also feel it takes away from as you mentioned the historical male figures themselves. Suppose the only thing that salvages it is that some remain men and are equally as badass as the gender bent crowd. That and also taking a breath and coming to terms with it being works of fiction in general so to not take it too seriously.
A black cyclops put it perfectly. “I recognize that the counsel has made a decision. But considering it’s a stupid ass decision I’ve chosen to ignore it.”
Going against nasu and fate-turds? Good luck you! You're certainly a braver man that i am! Specially knowing how head deep on their own asses those are Also Artoria gang here!!
Even more hardcore Type-moon fans don't like "Altria" that much. The unofficial translation to her name in the FSN VN was "Arturia", and later on we got a lot of "Artoria" in official translations, like in the Extella games, so the Altria thing isn't old enough to people just fight for it
@@HachannEinzbern It also doesn't help that as recent as 2021, Morgan Le Fay in Fate says her name directly, and she pronounces every syllable very clearly. And what does she say "Ar-tor-i-a" Not "Al-tri-a" The "fixed" translation doesn't even match the pronunciation.
As someone who just recently had first contact with Fate...why isn't she simply named Arthur? Just like Nero uses the name of the actual historical Figure despite the genderbend
@@christiancrusader9374 whoops typo. I meant "then why is Nero not named Nera Claudia Caesara Augusta Germanica?" (They even renamed Atilla to Altera, even though Atilla doesnt have an R/L after the A
So in my head i had an explanation that seemed incredibly logical but is apparently just wrong. I thought Altria in FGO was the name for Artoria Alter (Alternate Artoria abbreviated to Alt+ria=Altria), and the OG Saber was still called Artoria. After seeing this video I have decided to ignore reality and continue my life in denial still thinking that the above explanation is how everything works.
I doubt Nasu cares about translation. He never cares before and why should he now? As long as JP version is consistent that's all good in his eyes. Not to mention the fact Nasu supposed to be retired from writing Fate already, but people start breaking his IP from early FGO made him go back, causing plenty of other Nasuverse title to be delayed. The translation obviously being handed by someone else.
Why Altria though?? Does anyone know if it’s easier to pronounce than Artoria in Japanese language? Maybe that’s why… idk but saying Artoria I imagine a badass dragon in the form of a human while Altria makes me think it’s the name they were supposed to give Altera. Artoria somehow too sounds like a separate character from Arthur more than Altria which gives me vibes that it means she is an alter. I hope Artoria gets a showing at some point again. Actually after the LBs are done I hope we get more of the original 7. It would be nice to see them have upgrades in fgo. And maybe let Herc be not a Berserker and let Artoria have Avalon or at least a version of it since it’s probably too broken.
If I remember correctly, it's because one of the official ways to romanize Japanese allows what we hear as Artoria to be romanized into Altria because Japanese doesn't make the distribution between L's and R's. I probably got something wrong though.
@@xylathoth Basically Japanese has two features important here: "r" and "l" sounds are treated as the same (most often it's written as "r", but that's just convention) there MUST be a vowel after EVERY constant, with the exception of "n". As the result, in Japanese often "ru", "tu", "to" etc. are treated as quivalent of "r" or "t" with the foreign words Latin name is Artoria Japanese would pronounce it as A -ru -to - ri -a BUT since l and r are interchangable A lu to ri a sounds the same in Japanese Same as A l to ri a And A l t ri a
TM has a history of using downright silly romanizations for their names, though they have never been as anal about it as they are with Artoria. What likely happened is that the research was done in reverse, Nasu didn't get Artoria from Artorius and then write it in kana. He started off in katakana, reached アルトリア from アルトリウス, and then romanized from there. TM have stepped down on stupid stuff like Matthew for Mashu, or Marisbilly (god forbid), but here they rly don't want to admit they're just plain wrong. I don't watch my weebshit in English dub so I can more or less forget about it, but it rly becomes unavoidable if you do.
@@The4thSnakeWell that’s a relief, I appreciate your efforts to go out of your way to create your mistakes to the point of releasing your video several times now. A lot of respect to that
This was my one wish in Fgo that I forgot I had. Please Nasu just change it back to Artoria. I would rather be saying Castoria (Caster plus Artoria) than Castria (if you don't want kids anymore).
I played fgo for 3 years now and I’m still going, and I am very invested in the franchise. I’ve partially read the saber path VN, and I watched Zero, and all of Stay Night (heaven’s feel movies included). I believe that I am dedicated and invested enough for my opinion to count somewhat here. My opinion is that, although it is disappointing for Nasu to make such a simple mistake, I do give them the “Japanese pass” as I call it. If it’s easier for them to pronounce it as “Arutoria” by writing “Altria” (in Hiragana of course) then let them do it. It’s the fault of translators for not localizing the name into “Artoria” or “Arthuria”, not Nasu’s fault (except of Nasu gave explicit orders not to localize the name). Everything said, even if lorewise this is a blunder, I know who Artoria is! It doesn’t matter AT ALL to me. I am not losing my temper nor do I cringe at the failed localization. This sounds like a very poor excuse to start “hating” on a franchise that gives you so much more than what it’s taking away by failing with Artoria’s name. You still enjoy it, and it’s not THAT serious of a problem that really needs to be addressed. At least veterans know who Artoria is and I don’t think it matters if she was named anything else hereafter. I don’t get why these days, everyone will find anything to make them hate their favorite things. No matter how small, they will brand it as “one of the most serious problems that need to be addressed otherwise I CANNOT POSSIBLY enjoy the franchise”. I’m sure there are other more important things to address, like how we want localized Nasu VNs in the west. Japanese people have so much more content than us. Now this is a serious problem that affects the community. Not a silly name rebranding that makes 0 difference in your enjoyment since you can ignore it and keep what you feel is the correct one. You can’t ignore NOT having all the content you could have had though. That’s something to complain about. Also, now that Artoria is kinda fading away from being the exclusive face of the Fate franchise, and more servants also become as iconic, like Musashi (there will even be a new game around her, and she’s pretty important on fgo), who even cares anymore about Artoria. There’s so much more to appreciate in the Nasu-verse. You can’t be so salty for the 1% of the Nasu-verse that you don’t like.
Would’ve been acceptable (if weird) 10 years ago, but nowadays it’s all about taking accomplishments from established characters and astroturfing for some movement. You can see this happening already with the MCU now.
Hopefully, there won't be any glaring omissions or mistakes made THIS time...
Arturia alter was given the name salter by fans
@@ghostshrimp5006 Salteria
@@gayanudugampola8973 borgar king
Third time's the charm
since when were you under the impression that Nasu actually checks the translations? If Albert and his lackeys find dozens of excuses to actively rewrite the original authors' text, changing the characters and stories in the process, then of course they want to stick with "Altria"and blame it on Nasu's decision.
Nasu: The correct name is Altria.
The community: Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right!
Ik a lot of people like to meme with this line, but damn if it doesn't fit in this context perfectly. If you take a look at the better translations, this line roughly reads as "You're right just for the sake of being right". And that's EXACTLY what's going on here. The name Artoria is important not only cz of the whole Artorius thingy but also cz we're familiar with it. While Altria might be TECHNICALLY correct, that's all it is. It's just correct. But it's not "right" as in it doesn't hold any weight or substance. Just hollow righteousness.
@@emiya9831 Just say you don't like it and move on. Trying to justify the reason for not liking it makes it a waste of time.
@@nottomiokagiyu9830 I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one. I wasnt trying to justify my preferences. I was simply stating a fact.
more like:
Nasu: The correct name is Altria.
The community: No
@@pablogr6960 Rogal Dorne’s voice: No
Sadly japanese writers love their "cool exotic foreign names" and most of the time those names don't sound cool to non-japanese ears what can you do
I'm still gonna call her Artoria because it just fits her like a glove and doesn't confuse me to no end. What shocked me is the fact that Kari was still able to voice Artoria even after the UBW stuff lol. I've been in the devil may cry kick lately so forgive me if this is starting to sound a little bit odd because I'm thinking of lady wielding a sword now.
Remember, Saber's original VA was Kate Higgins, DMC4SE-DMC5 Lady.
@@The4thSnake Oh of course I would never forget Kate Higgins.
@@The4thSnake Ah, yes. Haruno Sakura AKA Tsunade Jr.
@@RudockAviar She is literally the worst, yes.
Reminds of Alucard from Hellsing (Dracula backwards) and how dumbass execs tried to get them to pronounce it as Arucard in the dub and they had to fight like hell to get it to stay as Alucard. But their victory wasn't total, as they compromised and he's still known as "Arucard" in the blurb on the back of the DVD.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought altria would be a better name for saber alter than for baeber
From now on I will just call her Baeber as well.
"Let us fight for Baeber supremacy!"
Salter is a pretty nice one.
The historical "Artorius" is actually written in Japanese as "Altorius" so it's possible that Nasu thinks "Altria" is somehow the more academic way to write it.
Wouldn’t it then be Altoria then?
@@blurb9319 I don't know Japanese so I don't know exactly how the Kanji work out on that.
@@unrankedchevron742 It's written in japanese katakana aka the way they write loan words and is written as アルトリア which is pronounced "Arutoria" in japanese there is no diffrence between L and R so someone at type moon might have thought this makes more sense when... it doesn't
@@_n9913 And correct me if I'm wrong, but the historical Artorius is written using very similar Kanji, right?
Why are you people whinning when the Japanese pronunciation never changed?
As a French (I know, terrible) who only watched subs, I always called her Arthuria.
Nothing *terrible* about being French.
Vive la France
In Polish subs on Netflix she's still Artoria, as far as I know.
I need to check out Zero novel translation (there exist official Polish one)
Our King will wreak er vengeance for that damnable football game when she wakes up from Avalon.
Till then, do what you can to repent.
Whenever someone calls Saber Altria for some reason they have to also shit on people who think Artoria is right, that's the main reason why I hate the name to be honest, originally I just disliked it then moved on but the people who called Altria had to just be assholes (not everyone, probably not the majority, but a big number of people and heck even FGO youtubers).
Isn't the same argument usable on those claiming "Artoria" is the correct name? A case of irony basically.
@@nottomiokagiyu9830 i second this but i dont care about the right name. Its just that everything has a big number of people who are dicks
@@nottomiokagiyu9830 the difference is people who say "Artoria" are saying it unironically.
@@asteriskonline3494 honestly I just think both camps are being asses. It’s a made up name to a genderswapped character. And the official name is still King Arthur. Nasu chose the “accurate” spelling and we just cope and move on. He gives zero shits about our disagreements because he never “changed” it. Fansubbers and small localizers used Artoria for a few years until Nasu caught wind of it and smacked everyone upside the head.
Ironic as this a video doing that exact thing but from the opposite side.
The last thing I expected to see in my feed was The4thSnake talking about Fate.
It’s nice that he prefers the once and future spelling Artoria.
Now I’m curious about his other takes on this franchise. I would really like to see one of my favorite ‘critics’ talk more about this series I happen to like.
Each FSN route is worse than the last. Heaven's Feel is dogshit, while Fate is the best.
@@The4thSnake While I don’t personally agree with this opinion, I can respect it.
(Also this made my day, thank you so much!)
@@AlexPeter9582 sakura worst girl
@@The4thSnake I Need a video explaining this take because its very interesting
@@The4thSnake Hahahaha
You have the perfect opinions. Saber>Rin>Worms>Dirt>Sakura
This katakana romanisation stuff reminds me of when X called Launch Octopus "Octopardo" in X5's English translation based on his Japanese name's katakana 「オクトパルド」(Okutoparudo) when the name was officially romanised as Launcher Octopuld, and when Quattro from Zeta Gundam's last name was originally romanised as "Vagina" before being switched to "Bajeena" which is closer to the pronunciation of the katakana 「バジーナ」(Bajiina/Baziina). Interesting how this stuff comes about.
For some time I thought Altria was Altera's proper name
Altera proper name is Attila
I really wish as well Typemoon goes back on that name but I sincerely think it's not happening at this point. There's so much merch sold under that name and it's been quite a while since they took that direction.
Figures and all go by *Altria* now smh.
thank you for making sure my birthday gift is as factually correct and well researched as it could be, Snake.
(note: this video is not made for me, the 4th Snake barely even knows me. it's just a joke about one of my favorite RUclipsrs making a video about one of my favorite franchises on a subject that I agree with him on, and that video being uploaded on my birthday.)
Happy Birthday! Hey, wouldn't you know today is my birthday too!
@@CrocvsGator yay
The misconceptions titles are getting very creative.
Many series have this, Berserk for example has "Knight of Skeleton" as Skull Knight's name because of a long times ago mistranslation and the client enforces the official translations to keep this name, another interesting example I saw was in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure portuguese dub where certain stand names were directly translated and others not because of this policy, even though this time makes it even more inconsistent, if consistency was ever the main reason. It's an unfortunate yet frequent occurance, at least the community has a consensus that these are nonsense and use the "more correct" names.
"All we do is hope that Nasu gets a clue and reverses the decision because this is just stupid."
As someone who has spent way too much of their life consuming TYPE-MOON, this basically encapsulates every stupid thing about the company's works.
Welcome to the fate fandom, this is one of our biggest complaints with the creator.
Compared to other problems, I’ll take “No your new name for her is stupid”
Yes and will always be because it sound weird like brand for a pack biscuits or something.
@@abe7363 I think it is a brand of cigarettes actually. Like, for real.
When I first joined the fate fandom I thought Altria was just the alter version of Artoria like jalter for Jeanne. Honestly, I still really didn't realise exactly what the difference was until this video so thanks
me whose been ignoring the word "Altria" for many years
I mean.. I get why is that in Japanese, since with Japanese phonetics "Altria" and "Atroria" are effectively alternative spelling...
Someone higher-up however seem to be not aware that it makes no sense in the other languages and I don't think any person natively using language traditionally writen with Latin script would think that "yes, Altria and Artoria are effectivelly the same".
This name was supposed to be female version of the latin name Artorius, it's directly stated by Nasu and other creators. This name is one of the reasons why Moriarty in Shinjuku guessed that she's King Arthur and connection to the "Artorius" was openly stated in the story.
Also, one more funny thing: "Artoria" is a legit name that exists adn there were people named like that (mostly Roman women)
Japan does this so much and it is so annoying. Gundam is probably the biggest example with Puru and Bella Rona.
3rd times the charm
Altria being short for her Alter makes depressing sense when you realize that her Alter has completely eclipsed her in terms of relevance these last six years.
Recent years thats the only way ive used it, *Altria* or simply *Alter* and *Artoria* for original form.
*Altria* for original never sat well with me.
I think the issue here is the "o" in Art*o*ria.
Altria is a valid but weird romanization cuz there's no emphasis on the "o" part of the name. For Nasu, that means he interprets the name Artorius as "Altlius"
It doesn't help that the male name Arthur doesnt emphasis the "o" because in japanese Arthur is *Asa/Atha*
"Heihachi is a sympathetic character" - Tekken 7's dumpster fire of a Story mode/Tekken team
It as stupid as Meltlilith change to Meltryllis
Since everyone called her Meltririsu not Meltrrisu
Didn't even know that there was a name discrepancy. Probably because i'm ignoring FGO. Well "Arturia" was the spelling i first saw in the unofficial English patch and i'm sticking with that. thank you very much🙂
It's not exclusive to Fate go. It's more of the name used lately.
It's Artoria. Nothing will ever change my mind.
I had no clue that snake knew about fate stuff, cheers to that
He's mentioned offhand in a few other videos I believe.
I went on about it at length on Kombat Kings a few episodes ago.
@@The4thSnake could I ask which episode?
@@blurb9319 I don't remember.
Can someone explain to me how the fuck I have 5 versions of her and am only now picking up on this? I thought Altria was just for her alter versions lmao
0:00 Uhhh... ALL of modern Mortal Kombat?
This speaks to my soul. I've had almost this exact rant before, and I will probably die mad about it.
I remember somewhere around 2021, I was fucking around in a discord server, and said something about Artoria. Some person decided to go “Um actually it’s Altria”. And that left me speechless because I’ve been calling her Artoria ever since I got into Fate, yet I’ve also never heard of that in my life until now
I knew I wasn't crazy! Thanks for this!
I'm fine with "Arthuria", "Arturia" or "Artoria", but "Altria" really does sound strange.
I can see "Altria" inside of Arutoria, but the same can be said to Artoria, and Artoria just sounds better
Altria makes it sound like she’s an alternative to someone.
I read the title before watching and said to myself: .. Who the f is Altria?
WAIT WAIT WAIT I THOUGH ALTRIA WAS WHAT THE COMMUNITY CALLS SABER ALTER WTF
EDIT: YEA exactly that last part
oh wow, 4thsnake knows fate?
wild.
It's all about perspective. Let's grab Oda Nobunaga, let's turn him into a girl, and then change the name to reflect this into: Adele Nobunaga.
It doesn't fit, not now not ever.
It's not just a "serviceable feminine equivalent", it's a real name. Lucius Artorius Castus was called Artorius because he was a member of the gens [family] Artoria. Artoria is the historical feminine form or Artorius. Look up "Artoria gens."
You've talked about the deaths of Cage, do you know about the 2 creepy audio files in MK3? One is about Cage's funeral where it says he was killed by Kintaro in MK2 at 29 years old and the other is Tis The Voice Of The Lobster but in a terrifying setting. There's not much on them online.
I'm pretty sure my brain just auto-translates it to Artoria.
Still waiting for the injustice 2 premier skin wasted plotential episode
I agree with this take, but considering how bad the fate franchise is with history or rather how often it blatantly ignores real stories that supposedly inspire their characters, this is no surprise for me
Kengan ashura fan : first time ?
Fans finding out ‘Artoria’ was a localisation error for 12 years: “It was always Altria?”
Nasu: “Always has been.”
Is it time again for my standard comment on the issue?
It is ｱﾙﾄﾘｱ (A-R(u)-T(o)-R[i]-A/A-L(u)-T(o)-R[i]-A), for which I prefer the reading Artoria (thanks to Artos = bear and Lucius Artorius Castus being likely both connected to the name Arthur).
Which means technically Altria is possible. But that ignores all the etymological stuff connected to Artoria. Which is why I don't use Altria for any of them.
Artoria (Saber) Alter is for me (and many other people) Salter as a nickname. (A carry-over from the old times of hidden Servant names from before FGO)
Artoria (Lancer) is for me Latoria or Tittytoria depending on how I feel as a nickname and Lancer (Alter) is Laltoria or just the King of Storms. Artoria (Ruler) is Bunnytoria. And the character that has her name but is not her (Artoria Caster) is of course Castoria as a nickname.
artos means bread
@@erois6190 Ἄρτος / artos (Greek) means bread, but artos is an old Celtic word for bear (compare artos in Gaulish, arth in Welsh and Cornish, arzh (in older forms ard or arth) in Breton, and art in Old Irish).
It’s either Artoria or Arturia and anything else deserves burning like France by Jalter
People who call her Saber: What?
People who call her Arthur: 🗿
Aniplex.
That is your answer right there.
Aniplex has a history of never admitting they made an oppsie and will vehemently argue to the contrary until the money dries up.
Money makes right in Aniplex's eyes. So until a new Fate property topples FGO in finances we will never see this correction be made.
Just keep calling her Artoria like how Space Ishtars name should be Astarte not Ashtart.
Like whats Aniplex's deal with ugly names anyways?
I mean... Aniplex being responsible makes sense here. Since in Japan spelling "Altria" is used, they might enforce it to keep thing consistent wwith the merchandise or something.
Meanwhile localization of Mahoyo has SHIzuki be named SIzuki.
I get how the mistake was made, but how did it make it through ?
It’s technically not incorrect as Japanese people can use si when romanizing Japanese words as they don’t have a “see” sound, but just kinda weird for English translation. It’s cause the vowel sounds for s are sa shi su se so, but obviously for a Japanese person the sh- would be unnecessary if they don’t have a “see” sound so they could just write si. Well, more accurately no native Japanese word uses the see sound, but hopefully you get the point.
*Artoria..*
*Altria..*
There is but one way to address her correctly... *Waifu*
Baeber
Why not Arthuria?
I've played FGO for like 5 minutes some 4 years and I forgot this was a thing. The name Altria makes me think she's supposed to be a Pokemon, it's too similar to Altaria.
Wait Altria isn’t saber alter nickname????
What i thought when first hearing it,
then i got into FGO saw *Altria* and was completely confused. Even thought at one point maybe this is a different..alternate..original Artoria? 🤔🤔
the fandom calla her Salter
Nah man, we create the king Altri to show how stupid that name sound
Factoria
both are correct connotations of the spelling "artoria" but mostly because of the elogated "aa" sound the correct pronunciation would be altria. it's the same with the katakana spelling of "arthur" "アーサー” = pronounced as "aa-saa" so usually the latter makes sense. obviously the english localization is using the correct pronunciation but regardless, it can be read two ways actually especially when you go to japanese conventions they say both pronunciations.
It’s just kinda dumb when Artoria resembles Arthur far more than Altria in English, the language modern British people speak. Also the long vowel sound being used when Japanese turns foreign names or words into katakana is inconsistent. Mordred becomes Moodoreddo, but Morgan becomes Morugan and not Moogan or the other way around.
@@andrewli6606 pretty much what I said lol it's really inconsistent especially if you go meet with different people in japan, but correct me if I'm wrong katakana phonetic pronunciations for native speakers should still be more considered they speak around the word elongated vowels to say two nouns so I understand part of why altria was the main localization but that really doesn't change that the point is that it can be said both ways which just makes the localization really bad both for translating and implementing in early fate days. it's the localization team that's at fault for this, it's a canon title name now there's nothing we really can do about this. tho I still see most of the canon material use artoria itself in most.
I’m never gonna call her Altria. Altria is a tobacco company Artoria is Saber case closed bye Nasu
just call her saber
Oh lol. Never knew Snake was into the Nasuverse.
We call saber artouria -artouria
Lancer artouria -lartouria
Caster Artouria -castoria
Altaira was never been an option
Some:Altria
Others:Artoria
Me:Arthuria 🤓
AROTORIA PENDORAGONDO
Arthuria or Artoria is just better.
I prefer calling the alter altoria
ive been asking the fgo developers to fix it for years, you tell me it is not an accident?
I ain't calling her Altria
Preach!
Nasu won't reverse it but he will likely forget it and change it out for something else as he does every 10 to 15 years with his lore
Localization causing confusion? What next, you gonna tell me the online game in Persona 3 used the names from Megami Tensei instead of Persona 2, or that Chie was referencing a famous Japanese detective instead of name dropping Raidou Kuzunoha in Persona 4? ... I'm sorry, I only know localization stuff relating to Megami Tensei and that one yaoi manga where a male character dressed up as a female.
My guess is that Altria looks more exotic or feminine than Artoria, or there were concerns that it may be seen as too literal a transliteration.
You wouldn’t want someone calling Waver Weiba.
Doesn't matter, L waifu
(Proto) Arthur Pendragon is the best and true King Arthur
Fate is very good;however, the only draw back for me is the constant genderbending of some of its characters. It's very disrespectful to the actual people in history and legends.
Struggled with this at times.
I mean i get it considering most Otakus are men and hey Waifus sell but then i also feel it takes away from as you mentioned the historical male figures themselves.
Suppose the only thing that salvages it is that some remain men and are equally as badass as the gender bent crowd. That and also taking a breath and coming to terms with it being works of fiction in general so to not take it too seriously.
Disagree. It allows for exploration of different aspects of their characters than a 'purer' or more conventional take would allow.
Meanwhile:
Me: Arturia
But even so, Artoria >>> Altria
A black cyclops put it perfectly.
“I recognize that the counsel has made a decision. But considering it’s a stupid ass decision I’ve chosen to ignore it.”
Lol this vid is great
Going against nasu and fate-turds? Good luck you! You're certainly a braver man that i am!
Specially knowing how head deep on their own asses those are
Also Artoria gang here!!
Most fate fans agree that the name is stupid, no need to stir the pot
Even more hardcore Type-moon fans don't like "Altria" that much.
The unofficial translation to her name in the FSN VN was "Arturia", and later on we got a lot of "Artoria" in official translations, like in the Extella games, so the Altria thing isn't old enough to people just fight for it
@@HachannEinzbern It also doesn't help that as recent as 2021, Morgan Le Fay in Fate says her name directly, and she pronounces every syllable very clearly. And what does she say
"Ar-tor-i-a"
Not
"Al-tri-a"
The "fixed" translation doesn't even match the pronunciation.
@KarlDerGr0be Oh boo guess we live in a society and HAVE to respect what people think.
Hey can u make a nasuverse universe explaination?
As someone who just recently had first contact with Fate...why isn't she simply named Arthur? Just like Nero uses the name of the actual historical Figure despite the genderbend
Because Nasu thought Latin name would be cooler and would refernce some "Roman Arthur" hypothesis, I guess
Besides being a girl and it making no sense for her to have a masculine name?
@@christiancrusader9374 then isn't she named Nera?
@@fellicojelisarrivera8434 nope. Also, I was talking about Saber.
@@christiancrusader9374 whoops typo.
I meant "then why is Nero not named Nera Claudia Caesara Augusta Germanica?"
(They even renamed Atilla to Altera, even though Atilla doesnt have an R/L after the A
So in my head i had an explanation that seemed incredibly logical but is apparently just wrong. I thought Altria in FGO was the name for Artoria Alter (Alternate Artoria abbreviated to Alt+ria=Altria), and the OG Saber was still called Artoria. After seeing this video I have decided to ignore reality and continue my life in denial still thinking that the above explanation is how everything works.
I did not know that... I'm just calling here Artoria though. It's been like that for so long, why change what's not broken?
i still stick to Arturia thank you very much
bro I didn't even realize they changed it I still call her artoria pendragon😂
I doubt Nasu cares about translation. He never cares before and why should he now? As long as JP version is consistent that's all good in his eyes. Not to mention the fact Nasu supposed to be retired from writing Fate already, but people start breaking his IP from early FGO made him go back, causing plenty of other Nasuverse title to be delayed. The translation obviously being handed by someone else.
Why Altria though?? Does anyone know if it’s easier to pronounce than Artoria in Japanese language? Maybe that’s why… idk but saying Artoria I imagine a badass dragon in the form of a human while Altria makes me think it’s the name they were supposed to give Altera. Artoria somehow too sounds like a separate character from Arthur more than Altria which gives me vibes that it means she is an alter. I hope Artoria gets a showing at some point again. Actually after the LBs are done I hope we get more of the original 7. It would be nice to see them have upgrades in fgo. And maybe let Herc be not a Berserker and let Artoria have Avalon or at least a version of it since it’s probably too broken.
If I remember correctly, it's because one of the official ways to romanize Japanese allows what we hear as Artoria to be romanized into Altria because Japanese doesn't make the distribution between L's and R's. I probably got something wrong though.
@@xylathoth Basically
Japanese has two features important here:
"r" and "l" sounds are treated as the same (most often it's written as "r", but that's just convention)
there MUST be a vowel after EVERY constant, with the exception of "n".
As the result, in Japanese often "ru", "tu", "to" etc. are treated as quivalent of "r" or "t" with the foreign words
Latin name is
Artoria
Japanese would pronounce it as
A -ru -to - ri -a
BUT since l and r are interchangable
A lu to ri a sounds the same in Japanese
Same as
A l to ri a
And
A l t ri a
TM has a history of using downright silly romanizations for their names, though they have never been as anal about it as they are with Artoria.
What likely happened is that the research was done in reverse, Nasu didn't get Artoria from Artorius and then write it in kana. He started off in katakana, reached アルトリア from アルトリウス, and then romanized from there.
TM have stepped down on stupid stuff like Matthew for Mashu, or Marisbilly (god forbid), but here they rly don't want to admit they're just plain wrong.
I don't watch my weebshit in English dub so I can more or less forget about it, but it rly becomes unavoidable if you do.
What happened to the tweets in the old version of this video?
What tweets?
@@The4thSnake opps, I meant comments
@@Lordpower963 They're gone, along with the old versions.
Yet another reason illya is superior..
Are they taking down your videos again?
Nah, this was a case of rereleasing it with some added context + corrections
Nah, I just keep being made aware of things I got wrong or missed and have been fixing them.
@@The4thSnakeWell that’s a relief, I appreciate your efforts to go out of your way to create your mistakes to the point of releasing your video several times now. A lot of respect to that
I will always get mad to the change in melty blood like wtf nasu XD
This was my one wish in Fgo that I forgot I had. Please Nasu just change it back to Artoria. I would rather be saying Castoria (Caster plus Artoria) than Castria (if you don't want kids anymore).
Nasu may be an expert in lore and humanities but his naming sense is severely lacking.
Fourth
No matter what they say she will always be Artoria/Saber for me, and I have read the visual novels 15 years ago , Altria doesn't make any sense
We all know her name is Seibah
Ofc this is another one of those "I don't like this so I'm gonna whine on the internet" shtick.
I played fgo for 3 years now and I’m still going, and I am very invested in the franchise. I’ve partially read the saber path VN, and I watched Zero, and all of Stay Night (heaven’s feel movies included). I believe that I am dedicated and invested enough for my opinion to count somewhat here.
My opinion is that, although it is disappointing for Nasu to make such a simple mistake, I do give them the “Japanese pass” as I call it. If it’s easier for them to pronounce it as “Arutoria” by writing “Altria” (in Hiragana of course) then let them do it. It’s the fault of translators for not localizing the name into “Artoria” or “Arthuria”, not Nasu’s fault (except of Nasu gave explicit orders not to localize the name).
Everything said, even if lorewise this is a blunder, I know who Artoria is! It doesn’t matter AT ALL to me. I am not losing my temper nor do I cringe at the failed localization. This sounds like a very poor excuse to start “hating” on a franchise that gives you so much more than what it’s taking away by failing with Artoria’s name. You still enjoy it, and it’s not THAT serious of a problem that really needs to be addressed. At least veterans know who Artoria is and I don’t think it matters if she was named anything else hereafter. I don’t get why these days, everyone will find anything to make them hate their favorite things. No matter how small, they will brand it as “one of the most serious problems that need to be addressed otherwise I CANNOT POSSIBLY enjoy the franchise”. I’m sure there are other more important things to address, like how we want localized Nasu VNs in the west. Japanese people have so much more content than us. Now this is a serious problem that affects the community. Not a silly name rebranding that makes 0 difference in your enjoyment since you can ignore it and keep what you feel is the correct one. You can’t ignore NOT having all the content you could have had though. That’s something to complain about.
Also, now that Artoria is kinda fading away from being the exclusive face of the Fate franchise, and more servants also become as iconic, like Musashi (there will even be a new game around her, and she’s pretty important on fgo), who even cares anymore about Artoria. There’s so much more to appreciate in the Nasu-verse. You can’t be so salty for the 1% of the Nasu-verse that you don’t like.
I thought she was based on Jeanne D’arc 🤣🙂
Only anime can get away with gender swapping a historical person. Imagine if Hollywood did this? How pissed would people be over this?
Would’ve been acceptable (if weird) 10 years ago, but nowadays it’s all about taking accomplishments from established characters and astroturfing for some movement.
You can see this happening already with the MCU now.