@@GD-Personaldepening on your faith, the Father and the Son are the same person, ala catholicism. However LDS people like myself know they're two different people.
@@GD-Personal In John 10:18, Jesus says, "No one takes it [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again." Yes, God the Father resurrected Christ, but it is also true that Jesus has the power to take his life up again and was working in his own resurrection. A merely human person does not have this authority.
@@danielbu2611 The animals/sacrifice thing goes back to the law of Moses that some of the first 5 books in the bible go into painfully detailed explanation about the law of moses.
Yes, I don't know why people struggle with this. It's the same with us just about because when we die it is just our bodies and not our spirit that dies. So we don't die either. Take care
@@muppetonmeds We don't die in terms of ceasing to exist. But death is in essence separation. Physical death is separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death is separation of the Soul from God. Revelation calls it "the second death".
You will have no excuse on the day of judgement. I hope you’re ready.
Месяц назад+26
@@OzzyHamid-cl2fi _You will have no excuse on the day of judgement. I hope you’re ready._ Sure he has an excuse. Accepting Jesus is King is the perfect excuse. Your refusing to do so, there is no excuse for that.
Jesus was a prophet, he is not God. A human can never be a God. What is the difference between you and the Hindus who believe that cows are Gods, do you have the right to deny their worship? You don't have the right to tell them that Cows can not be God.
A fun question to throw back at the Muslim is, is God alive? By the scientific definition of life, he isn't. So clearly, not only are we dealing with an equivocation, we're dealing with a categorization error. The definition of life needs to be addressed, too.
Yep, hadn't though of that yet. My main argument against this is by humbling himself to take on human flesh, Jesus made the greatest sacrifice that anyone can ever make... infinitely far beyond what any human can make... and he made this commitment while he was / is God. But even if death is demanded, that too was satisfied. Jesus is simultaneously both true God and true Man. He's not 50% God and 50% man. So when the God the Son incarnate died, his spirit was released from the flesh (i.e. death), but that is still God's the Son's spirit, not a human spirit. Ergo, we have a divine, sacrificial death in every sense of the phrase.
@@sidwhiting665 How is it a sacrifice? God is omnipotent, immortal, and omniscient, right? So how is *anything* god chooses to do a sacrifice? By that logic, every senseless death of a human is a sacrifice, not part of any divine plan. For 30 odd years out of infinity, a piece of god played at being human, and you think that's a tremendous sacrifice?
@darrennew8211 you think leaving your home of perfect peace and harmony where you are only worshipped and adored and then coming to be born as an impoverished human, working his entire life just to live, then starving in a desert to have his flesh tempted by Satan himself, then dying an excruciating death the likes of which had never been seen... You think that isn't a worthy sacrifice? You think leaving behind and suppressing his divinity wasn't enough? Idk what else I could ever tell you to change your mind.
I mean, that's most definitions of life not even the scientific definitions, so this is really just semantics, typical of the Muslim to not understand language.
The Muslim gave him the opportunity to explain himself and he responded with 'I wish I could talk more...' and 'I've got to go'. There are also cuts in the video to make the short.
Thank you. I too have fallen to the trap of accepting the premise of the question instead of making sure that we agree with the terms of the question. Always ask questions when faced with a difficult question. 😇
As I was watching the debate between the Christian and the Muslim, a question that popped in my head was, "did God stay dead?" Jesus' resurrection should never be absent in a discussion of His death.
Yahweh is Yahshua there is not God head in the Bible. Yahshua means Yahweh saves no other name does. HALLELU-YAH read Isaiah 12:2; 43:10-12 is John 8:23-24 I AM HE 2 Corinthians 5:19 HALLELU-YAH
@@jimjuri6490 Did you know the name Jesus is Latin pronounced Hey-Zeus it means nothing in Hebrew. Hebrews 13:8 If Yahshua means Yahweh's deliverance in Hebrew He is the same yesterday and today & forever is he not?❤
@@emirtaufiq Yahweh the Father made a body & put his spirit in it just like in everyone of us on earth. Isaiah 55:11 His Spirit is a it His word is a thing.
Thank you! I always appreciate your videos! Your careful attention to detail and calm response should be the approach of every apologist and evangelist. You are an excellent example of the goal being the fight for the soul, not the fight for the argument. Thanks again Red Pen Logic!
In other words, death is one of the things which can happen to a physical creature - whether or not that physical creature has a spirit which continues to exist after death, and which can be re-connected with its body. So, as a human being can die (but not cease existing), Jesus, being a human being, can die. Jesus, being also God, can still die. But His dying is not a contradiction with His Godhood, because it is only death in the same way all humans die - physically. Muslims, by using this argument, are either playing word games, or making death more than what it is, while also strangely cheapening what death is. Also, you can ask them, so the Quran is eternal? But you can destroy a Quran, can't you? Therefore, the Quran is mortal! And see how they like that line of thinking.
Frankly, Muslims spit nothing but lies so they really don't think about or care about what they are saying until they are called on and shut down. Notice the Muslim kept cutting off the Christian? It's on purpose. He pretends to want answers but in reality just wants to prop himself up.
except the christian god won't let anybody die. and "whether or not that physical creature has a spirit which continues to exist after death, and which can be re-connected with its body". Magnificent obfuscation and clearly your own word game.
He didn’t debunk the holy trinity, he intentionally took the christian’s words out of context and blocking his full speech to make himself feel better and look better.
@@pratiksalve8823 Ah yea, I know of them, and watch mostly David's stuff, of those you've listed. I suppose I just mean the more people that talk about Islamic issues, the better people's defence will be pertaining to it.
I’m honestly starting to believe that understanding these types of discussions and concepts should be mandatory in order to get involved with evangelicalism and ministry.
@@ryankelly9032.....edited( this is sarcasm for those with no sense of humor) well, I know absolutely no theology, couldn't even tell ya the name of the god i worship but my church has the best coffee you ever tasted. Our child care facilities are second to none and everyone in our congregation knows well over 500 K-love songs and our minister has a degree in audio engineering. You should see our light show!!! With all that work, I am sure god will let us in to heaven 🤔.
@@rustyshackleford9557 I’m a little confused by your comment. I would agree that the showiness of many churches today does nothing to spread the gospel or lead to real salvation, but I’m not sure how it relates to the topic at hand.
@@ryankelly9032 I was being sarcastic. I find that many Christians are utterly unable to intelligently defend their faith. I thought I read a comment from another person stating that folks should be better equipped with knowledge to better spread the gospel. I see modern churches often that are only equipped to serve coffee and host little contemporary music sing alongs.
@@ryankelly9032 sorry my post was censored. I will try again I simply see a modern church lacking in biblical knowledge and apologetics but very good at entertaining members.
What's always interesting to me is the Muslim attempts to destroy the trinity when I don't think they understand what it is. Even their false prophet got it wrong in the Koran, saying in Koran 5:116 that Mary and Jesus were claiming to be God, implying Mohamed thought the trinity was the Father, Son and Mary. If Mohamed can't get the trinity correct, how can we expect Muslims to get the trinity correct? Or do they not believe their own supposedly perfect book?
@AcousticThoughts159 Muslims see letting the other person speak as weakness. That’s why Sam Shamoun is seen as “rude”, but he 100% understands how they are strength and weakness.
I would have asked the muslim to explain who the trinity is Then I would have shown him in the quran that alla thinks Mary is part of the trinity. Epic fail, mohammalla
“And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?” He will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say?” Quran 5:116 The verse never makes the claim about the trinity being Mary, Jesus and god, It doesn’t even say trinity. But it says people will claim Jesus and Mary to be gods besides Allah which doesn’t imply anything to do with the trinity.
He’s using that equivocation to create a straw man, so it’s actually two fallacies in one. The Christian in the video likely doesn’t have the education in logical argumentation to even know where to start.
The Christian did better than I thought he would. He does need to brush up on common Islamic apologetic arguments, though, if he's going to voluntarily go toe-to-toe with them. They are not dumb people.... many are highly intelligence, schooled, and prepared to poke holes in everything they find objectionable about Christianity. Problem is, they've been taught a false version of what Christian's believe, so they make objections about stuff we don't even teach.... unless you're in a bad church.
It's not a straw man if it's your own argument. A straw man is when you're arguing against what someone else said and lying about what they said. The muslim asks questions that give contradictory answers, so by definition it can't be a straw man.
@@darrennew8211 it’s a straw man because it’s an inaccurate presentation of the Christian position. He pretends there is a contradiction by presenting only half of the argument. He makes it seem reasonable through equivocation.
@@ryankelly9032 He's not presenting an argument. He's asking questions. That's the point. He's not saying "A follows from B." He's asking "Is B?" Then "Does A follow from B?" Then "Does A not refute B?" You can't straw-man an argument if you're getting the other person to make the argument by asking questions. He makes absolutely no statement about what the other person is arguing. He's 100% asking the other person to explain his confusion.
@@darrennew8211 He is presenting an argument, he’s just attempting to use the Socratic method, which consists of asking questions to lead the listener to a specific conclusion. The questions he’s asking are based on false premises, and demonstrate that he either doesn’t understand the position he’s arguing against (intentionally or not) or he does and he’s lying to appear as if he won. That’s what a straw man is and its entire purpose.
The Trinity has never been a Christian teaching. Here is what proper Christians believe as shown by Paul. (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father, There is no Son and holy spirit who are God. God's son and God's holy spirit is something that BELONGS to God. Like saying 'Peter's letters'.
He kept cutting the guy off as he tried to explain. His argument is based on human thinking. He is limiting who God is.
Месяц назад+2
_He kept cutting the guy off as he tried to explain. His argument is based on human thinking. He is limiting who God is._ Right, the Muslim kept imposing His Islam version, the corrupted version, of Christianity on to what the true version of Christianity is to set up a straw man.
There are many things God cannot do. One is change form and another is, die. (Malachi 3:6) “For I am Jehovah; I do not change. (Habakkuk 1:12) Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. Jesus did both.
@@jimjuri6490Clearly by change it means, God’s values. Not his appearance. Secondly, Jesus’ HUMAN BODY perished but was RESURRECTED. God is spirit. There is no contradiction here, just things taken out of context and misunderstanding.
@@Ctacobell : (Malachi 3:6) “For I am Jehovah; I do not change. How can someone say this only means God's values? Jesus confirmed this fact that God doesn't change HIS FORM. (John 4:24) GOD IS A SPIRIT, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” Jesus' human body with the life in it was sacrificed TO GOD. Once a sacrifice is made it cannot be taken back. The problem you have is starting off believing that Jesus was God and then trying to fit scriptures to blend with this idea. Jesus was NEVER God. (John 20:31) But these have been WRITTEN DOWN so that you may believe that Jesus IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.
Good explanation but you missed his follow up question of "where is the eternal sacrifice?" It is in the dual nature of Jesus. Jesus put on flesh to walk among us and that flesh was crucified, but Jesus was not only flesh He is also God, as a person of the Trinity, so both His human nature and divine nature received the punishment. Jesus was sinless in His human nature (and even the Qu'ran affirms this) and He is perfectly/infinitely Holy in His divine nature so even though only the flesh can die the punishment and sacrifice is applied to both natures. Any punishment applied to an infinitely holy being is infinite by definition and more than enough to cover all the sin of finite and fallen beings.
@@Ahmed-DBThe punishment was not FOR His divine nature it was applied to both His human and divine nature as He was fully human and divine. The divine nature of Jesus cannot die because it is spirit (and God) but when Jesus took on flesh He was BOTH divine and human (humanity was an addition to His divine nature not a replacement of His divine nature). Thus what you did to Jesus the man, you also did to Jesus the second person of the Trinity. When Jesus suffered and died on the cross, He was innocent, both in His human nature and His divine nature. This is the sacrificial attornment. It was foreshadowed in the Old Testament by the sacrifice of unblemished animals. When he was beaten and nailed to the cross it is important to remember that because Jesus embodied a duel nature, so He suffered as God and man. His human body died and for 3 days and for those 3 days He existed as only Spirit (divine nature) but He resurrected that body and again added flesh to his divine nature. After 40 days He ascended into heaven and maintains both His divine and human nature forever.
@@moose9906Eh… not sure how we could say that the divine nature received punishment? It almost sounds like we would have to invoke partialism but, even then, that still wouldn’t make sense. God would never punish His own divine nature/essence! If Jesus has the fullness of deity, that fullness cannot be punished. Otherwise, we would have to say God punished Himself when, clearly, that’s not the case.
@@moose9906Besides, within a classical framework, I think it follows that only the human nature receives punishment. Classically, trinitarians argue that Jesus has two wills for his two natures: one human will and the one divine will of the Trinity. When the Son is subject to the Father (Luke 22:42), the classical trinitarians would say that’s his human will in subjection, not the one divine will of the Trinity. (The emphasis on one divine will is supposed to push back against the implications of tri-theism.) Hence, I think you could be consistent as a classical trinitarian and say that only the human nature of Jesus received punishment.
@@zekdom I think we need to define what actually happened here. The concept is not punishment. The concept is atonement. Christ atoned for our sins. He was not punished for our sins. Rather he took on humanity's punishment. Think of it like being in court room with your son for a speeding ticket. The judge slaps him with a $100 fine. He's broke and will go to jail if he doesn't pay (yeah, I realize that's not how it really works.... bear with me), so you decide to pay the debt for him. You are not being "punished"; you simply atoned for his actions by paying his fine. Punishment is a form of behavioral conditioning that is designed to evoke deterrence (i.e. stop doing the bad thing), but you never sped, so you are not deterred from doing a bad things that you never did in the first place. Hopefully you son IS deterred because he recognizes you made a sacrifice for him. Atonement, on the other hand, reconciles God and Man, through God voluntarily taking the punishment due to humans. Only he is capable of doing this, because only he is holy. Infinitely holiness can cover finite sinfulness. Think about it: even if humanity survives 1,000,000 years and everyone who ever lives sins 1,000,000 times.... God's holiness is still MORE than all the weight of all the sins throughout all history.... because his holiness is infinite. The number of human sins is finite, including the number of sinful human natures. Even if there are 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,00,000 sins to atone for, limitless holiness is all that + infinity more. In summary, God takes on our punishment, but he himself is not punished. Rather, he atones (makes right) the relationship between God and Man.
Good point, mate. Well explained. I'm just saddened because the right people who need to watch the video might not come across it. But please, keep making videos like this. At least, anyone who wants to argue, we'll do it here in the comment section. Thanks mate! God bless.
The two natures explanation is very good. Good video. Also when the Muslim asks where the divine sacrifice is when the Christian says that the divine nature didn’t die, I think it’s important to note that the wrath of God was satisfied on the cross (when Jesus is still alive) and completed when he says it is finished.
I heard someone say, "look for the assumptions within the question." There's so many silly things that people don't consider before they ask questions or make statements. The apologist has a great challenge with this stuff. Kudos to this guy.
Here is the Trinity debunked in 3 seconds. The time taken to read this truth. 'No man has SEEN God at ANY TIME.' - 1 John 4:12. At least it rules out Jesus from being God. Plenty of people SAW Jesus.
Wow! Best explanation for nature of Trinity. This nailed it. People think winning an argument validates their thinking until they meet their match. You should have taken that question..
@@bebobauomy1265 There is a heaven and hell but they are not what many people were taught to believe. The Bible says in in Psalms 146:4 when he goes to the ground his thoughts perish. Ecclesiastes 9:10 says there is no work or wisdom or knowledge in the grave. And Hell is not some fiery place where people continue to exist and are tormented which the devil is in charge of. These are teachings that mislead people.
@@sgame82 Yes, his thoughts and plans, not his soul. Please do not interpret the text as you want to support your claim, the Bible explicitly says that the soul does not disappear after death. For example, Luke 16:22, 23.
There is one sentence that summarize both : John 10 : i have the power to give my life and take it back. No one has the power to take my life, i give it myself. We know that Yeshua/Jesus never lied. He gave back The Spirit at the cross when he chooses to do so, which man can choose the moment when he dies? He is also ressurected so He has chosen the moment of His own ressurection, while He was dead, which man can decide to ressurect himslef while dead? That's the proof he was both 100% human and 100% God so it was a divine sacrifice. Ps: sorry for my english, sometime autocorrection, i'm french.
Sam Shamoun has already dealt with this before. "Die" as in "cease to exist"? No. "Die" as in the body died and the spirit/essence is still alive? Yeah. Matthew 28:19 is a prime example for the trinity. You don't go and make disciples in the name of just one, but in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
@@veryrandomusere I’m not talking about some random person from 1400 years ago, talking about someone who claimed to have God speaking morality into his ear. Therefore, I would expect absolute morality in his actions. So either Muslims think that God supports marrying six-year-olds, in which case why is it illegal now in Islamic countries? Is there own God wrong about morality? Or, God told Mohammad it wasn’t OK, and he ignored him and did it anyway.
Saying that only the human nature of Jesus died is the Nestorian heresy. The muslim was right in pointing out the inconsistency that flows from this heresy.
Quite frankly, I don’t see how it’s Nestorian to emphasize the human nature of Jesus’ death… when it’s considered Orthodox that only Jesus’ human will is subject to the Father (Luke 22:42) - avoiding the claim that the one divine will of the Trinity is in any way subject/subordinate. Functionally, I see no difference. Only the human will of Jesus is subject to the Father’s will, and only the human nature of Jesus died a physical death. What’s the difference between these two points? The Third Council of Constantinople’s ruling on the two wills of Jesus made it inevitable that trinitarians would emphasize the human nature of Jesus in certain contexts.
@@zekdom James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. The Jesus I believe in is not double minded. He is Gods son…his chosen messiah. Please stop with this trinity mess…it’s destroying peoples chances of finding the one true God, and his only begotten son Jesus.
@@GD-Personal There should be no problem saying that the one true God is the Father Almighty (John 17:3). What trinitarians are saying is that the Word and Holy Spirit can be called God because they are one with the Father in essence - the Word and Holy Spirit are essential to the Father’s identity. When you invoke the Father, you invoke all of him, including his Word and Spirit. Can God exist apart from his own wisdom? Of course not! God is forever wise. And Jesus is that Wisdom (1 Corinthians 1:24 and Matthew 11:19). This is Wisdom Christology. And of course, no text suggests that the Holy Spirit is created - at one point did not exist. Therefore, the Holy Spirit has always existed with the Father. Wherever the Father is, so too is the Spirit of God (Psalm 139:7). The Holy Spirit cannot be taught anything - implying the Holy Spirit already knows everything (Isaiah 40:13). This Holy Spirit is one with God; we cannot separate the Spirit from God Almighty! To be clear, classical trinitarians agree that the Son and Holy Spirit have the Father as their source, in that the Son is begotten by the and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. (Filioque controversy aside.) The classical trinitarian argument is that the Son is essentially, atemporally caused. What’s the justification, you may ask? Let’s look at the flame analogy. The flame is the cause of its own light and heat. And yet, the flame could not be a flame without the light and heat. Now, let’s switch from that finite example to the infinite God Almighty. (The flame analogy seems appropriate because God is described as a “consuming fire” in Hebrews 12.) God is the source of his own radiance, the radiance of his glory. And yet, God is always radiant with glory because that’s who he is - a radiant, glorious being. That’s essential to his identity as the Almighty. Thus, God must be generating this radiance of his own glory forever. Well, the Son is described as this very radiance, the radiance of God’s glory (Hebrews 1:3)! Therefore, the Son is both (essentially) caused and eternal - generated outside of time long ago in eternity past. That’s the essential oneness we’re seeing here, not just unity in purpose. If anybody has any confusion over this topic - whether trinitarian or unitarian - I recommend reading Tertullian’s Against Praxeus. In that, Tertullian makes it simple: when he sees both the Father and Son, Tertullian will refer to the Father as “God” and Jesus as “Lord”. And when the Son alone is in view, Tertullian would call the Son “God”. In my estimation, that’s a beautiful and simple way to address the Father Almighty and his Son.
@@zekdom If the divine part of Jesus didn't die, then He is not the Messiah. Jesus was fully God and man, but He had to experience the same kind of death as everybody else. The part that makes this belief illogical is that only a God Being could provide atonement for sins. Jesus couldn't do that with just His human self because He didn't commit any sin. And even if He did, it would only pay for His own sins and nobody else's.
The Bible does disprove any Trinity teaching. (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father, This was Paul showing what proper Christians believe. Only the being Jesus addresses as Father is God. (John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER and your Father and to MY GOD and your God.’” The same God and Father that Jesus' disciples worship.
@@jimjuri6490 well, that's not true at all! I'm a Christian and the trinity is foundational in the Christian faith and Teachings! Jesus is King, Our saviour and God!
@@TheIrishTheorist8192 : No Christian ever has believed in a Trinity. The Leader of Christians is Jesus, the Christ. Matt 23:10. He didn't believe in a Trinity. This is what Paul wrote regarding Christian belief in contrast to what others believe. (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually TO US one God, the Father, Only the Most Holy One whom Jesus and his disciples address as FATHER is God. Here are Jesus own words to show this. After God brought Jesus back into the realm of the living, Jesus told Mary: (John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.’” Jesus had finished his God given assignment as a human. He now had to return to God with his report. The God who had SENT him to carry out God's Will. (John 4:34) Jesus said to them: “My food is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME and to FINISH HIS WORK. The Trinity was an apostate church teaching. Read Acts 20:30. Check out the J W site which helps people with what the Bible really teaches.
The Muslim was demanding, "where is the divine sacrifice?", in order to supposedly debunk Christianity. Does the Bible ever actually refer to Jesus' death as a "divine sacrifice"? If not, then the objection simply doesn't apply.
It's a sacrifice, isn't it? And since it's god being sacrificed, it seems like it's a divine sacrifice? It's like asking a person who can conjure money out of thin air to "sacrifice" a few dollars for charity.
@@darrennew8211 Ok, so you didn't actually answer the question, leaving us to conclude that you are unaware of any Bible passage claiming the sacrifice was "divine". So, if Jesus did have a divine nature along with a human nature, it wasn't required for the divine nature to perish, since the Bible never claims such.
@@schlauchmeister234 I'm not a bible scholar. No, I don't know if the bible says those words precisely. So why doesn't the christian say "there was no divine sacrifice"?
I was also saying the same thing. The bible never claims that. If Jesus took on flesh to die a physical death, that means that his devine nature didn't need to perish for the atonement to be carried out. Sadly, the christian man was not prepared for these trick questions.
@@darrennew8211 "So why doesn't the christian say "there was no divine sacrifice"?" - The Christian in the video? I'm not a mind reader, so I can't speak to his motivations. However, the more important question is, where is the Muslim's idea of this alleged "divine" sacrifice coming from? If it isn't a Biblical concept, then it is not a legitimate criticism of Christianity.
What is stunning about Islamic apologetics is they will ask the most obvious questions as if they are knock down arguments against Christianity. The death of christ is so central to christianity.... so trying to invalidate christianity by talking about the death of Jesus is just silly.... he probably thinks wow no one thought about that.
I think the Muslims have a valid point. People who go around claiming that Jesus was God and got killed, have got their beliefs in a knot. God cannot be killed. That is why the term IMMORTAL applies to God. (Habakkuk 1:12) Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. Christians have never believed that their Leader Jesus was also their God. (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father,
I admire how elegant your response is. I wish the Christian guy in the video could watch your answer, go back in time and humble/educate the Muslim fella a little 😊
Never in the Jewish scriptures and theology they say that God is a man that's why they reject Christianity, and don't it's their scripture don't hijack others scriptures to fit in your perspective 😂
@@Ibrahimgamz the jews also believe through their talmud that jesus is burning in hot excrement that his mother is a whore and that jesus is a bastard according to talmud. you don't believe this so why you being hypocrite? why would we therefore think that the jews are responsible to verbatimly dictate the old testament text for us? why you being hypocrite? if they can prove their claims then sure, but your claim is flat. 😂 besides even moses Maimonides concedes that Isaiah 9:6 is about Messiah and the title el gibbor (mighty God) is being indicted to the Messiah. Isaiah 9:6 states there is a Child to be born a Son of God whose name is to be the mighty God. 😂 Commenting on a false messianic claimant who appeared in Yemen, Maimondes wrote: 'Do these characteristics make him a Messiah? You were beguiled by him because you have not considered the pre-eminence of the Messiah, the manner and place of his appearance, and the marks whereby he is to be identified. The Messiah, indeed, ranks after Moses in eminence and distinction and God has bestowed some gifts upon him which he did not bestow upon Moses, as may be gathered from the verses: "His delight shall be in the fear of the Lord" (Isaiah 11:3). "The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him. (11:2). 'And righteousness shall be the girdle of his lions." (11:5). Six appellations were divinely conferred upon him as the following passage indicates: "For a child is born unto us, and a Son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder, and he is called 'Pele, Yoetz, El Gibbor, Abiad, Sar-Shalom." (Isaiah 9:6). And another verse alluding to the Messiah is the following manner: "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." (Psalm 2:7). All these statements demonstrate the pre-eminence of the Messiah.
Christian - Is quran Eternal? Muslim - Yes Christian - Can quran be destroyed? Muslim - No because it is allahs words and is eternal Christian - So then how come Uthman burnt all the copies of quran which were different than what you read today? Or what if this book of quran gets older and tears apart? Muslim - You are referring to quran made of paper and ink but not actual words of allah. Book of quran which is also word of allah made of paper and ink can be destroyed but not allahs actual eternal words. Christian - Oh now I see. So allahs word can become paper and ink which can be destroyed but his actual words are still eternal. So then why do you have a problem when we say the same for Jesus. God's Word, Jesus became flesh and dies for our sins but is still Eternal. His flesh died but his Spirit was still alive. In addition he rose back again on the third day defeating death. Dont you sound hypocrite?.
Jesus being called by the TITLE the Word and the words that God speaks are separate things. Jeremiah 1:4 The word of Jehovah came to me, saying: These are spoken words. Not a reference to Jesus. The apostate church tried to destroy these words which God got written down. But naturally failed.
@jimjuri6490 This is a problem with some people who do no read the scriptures properly and conclude on what suits them. To the reference that you are giving and misquoting, the verse of Jeremaih 1:4 'The Word of the Lord came to him'. Can you please tell me how the Word might have looked like as the Word came to him physically? Did they looked like characters of Hebrews language to Jeremiah? No because it is Word and not words that came to him. And that LORD touched Jeremiahs mouth with his hand in verse 9. So definitely they are not spoken words as you say. This is Jesus here as John says in John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God'. So who was in the beginning? The Word. And this Word was with God and this Word is also God. So this Word is God and also a distinct person of God. Thats why we are Trinitarians. Now who is that actual Word of God. For that please read the entire chapter of John and not just 1 verse as you did with Jeremiah. And please have patience I will come to Jeremiah. I promise. It is Jesus who is the Word of God. Because when you continue reading John 1 and reach verse 14 it also says - 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. So that Word became flesh and dwelt among them. Any guesses who became flesh and was dwelling among them? Yes its Jesus. So the Word of God is Jesus, the Word who was in the beginning and then became flesh. Now lets continue Jeremiah and look at the verse which you didnt read. Look at Jeremiah 1:6 where Jeremiah speaks to that Word of Lord which came to him. Thereafter did you read verse 7. I bet you havent read. So please do me a favour and read it and see who responds. No suprise it is the LORD who responds. So the Word of LORD is also LORD similar to what we saw in John (Word of God is also God). I would ask you to read that now in Hebrews language if you can read and understand Hebrews. If not you can use interliner and see what is that Hebrew word which is translated to LORD in english. Surprise surprise it is YAHWEH. Thank you for bringing this verse which proved that Jesus is the Word of God and he is YAHWEH meaning God. See how beautiful our Bible is. Both Old and New Testament are beautifully aligned and both of them proves that Jesus is the Word of God and is God (YAHWEH). I pray that the LORD opens your heart to see the true God.
@@sushil9984 :Deuteronomy 6:6 These WORDS that I am commanding you today must be on your heart, Revelation 22:18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who HEARS the WORDS of the prophecy of this scroll: These are SPOKEN WORDS coming out of a mouth written down for us. Jesus being called the Word is because he is God's SPOKESPERSON. Someone whom God uses to deliver God's words. See Hebrews 1:2. Jesus cannot be God logically. (John 1:2) This one was in the beginning with God. Who is THIS ONE? It is what the earlier verse tells us. The Word. The one whom God created in the beginning. THIS ONE cannot refer to God who is shown to be WITH God, surely. I was with my Uncle. Logically I cannot be my Uncle, can I.
@@jimjuri6490 My friend in humanity, you brought Jeremiah and misquoted it and now when you are exposed you are trying to find your way with some other verses like Deuteronomy, Revelation etc. Why dont you read the Bible and understand rather than picking some verses and translating it to suit your agenda. You keep repeating same mistake by not reading the Bible properly and I do not understand how many times I need to correct you. Let me help you again here one final time. You brought Revelation 22. Do you know who the speaker is? Its Jesus. Because the same Revelation 22 in verse 12 - 13, Jesus says 12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Jesus is going to reward us based on how we reacted to his message. Who other than God is First and Last, the Beginning and the End? What more evidence do you need that Jesus is claiming to be God Almighty. You lied again, where does John 1:1 says that Jesus is created in beginning? Here is the verse. 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'. Even a less educated person just by reading the entire chapter would easily understand that Jesus is God. You brought Hebrews 1 making same mistake. Read verse 8-9 8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” Do you know where this is from? Its Psalm 45:6-7. Why God the Father is addressing his son, Jesus as God? So God the Father is saying Jesus is God but your false prophet tells you that Jesus is not God. So rather than believing what God says, you decide to believe a false prophet who is burning under the feet of Jesus. Its your choice to decide where you want to end up. God doesnt force you to come to him. You need to understand now whom are you trying to fool, others or yourself. I continue praying for you my friend in humanity.
Muslims have a trinity too, allah, quran and black bean stone. Quran is eternal for them giving from angel Gabriel to Muhammad, the stone fell from the sky and was white, but them kissing it takes their sin and now is black and allah is Muhammad and pagen's eternal god.
@@DennistheEvangelist-m3l the three present doesn’t prove a trinity Try again. Not one verse, apostle, Jesus or God ever tries to preach a triune God. Even some of your church father agrees with this. It’s manmade nonsense.
@@DennistheEvangelist-m3l ✅ Jesus preached and practiced 👉 Unitarian Vs ❌ Your FAITH 👉 Trinitarian Jesus preached and practiced: Who is THE ONLY TRUE GOD? ✅ The Father ☝️ (SINGLE PERSON) (John 17:3) Who is the God of Jesus? ✅ The Father ☝️ (SINGLE PERSON) (John 20:17)
@@whiteandblack2005 agree. Trinis goes against the clear teachings of scripture. God can die vs god cannot die Jesus did not know all things vs Jesus did know all things The one true God is the father vs the trinitarian God is the one true God Jesus lowered himself becoming lower than the angels vs he was still God thus not lower than the angels It’s manmade pagan nonsense.
It's hard to argue about the existence of God with atheists as much as it is to argue the nature of God with Muslims. Because the audience in both cases are highly resistant, if not immune to all evidence against their religion.
Nah. Atheists just don't think an argument alone without any evidence is sufficient to prove the existence of something. I can show you all kinds of math that prove the universe has 11 dimensions, but I can't point to any of those dimensions or anything they cause, so the math is unconvincing. The same thing with the holy books.
@War-3764 The existence of the universe, for starters. Because everything that begins to exist needs a cause. the universe began to exist. Therefore, the universe has a cause, and the cause of the universe must be outside the universe. It is more reasonable and rational to believe that the existence of the universe was caused by a supernatural and omnipotent being rather than being eternal or creating itself. Although atheists are trying to rationalize this with multiverse or quantum mechanics.
@@JonBGreen91 Why is it more rational to believe in it being created by an eternal omnipotent deity than that it's eternal, given we actually have several scientific hypotheses that indicate how it could be eternal and no rational reason to believe in any god so far proposed? And which god do you believe in, such that your holy book discusses the big bang?
Like some of my christians friend told me...they follow paulinity not christianity. Ask 500 christians about the trinity, they will give you 500 different answers
Defining terms is also important because otherwise people can talk past one another. Two people might have different definitions of a word and think they agree but are actually talking about two different things; or they might think they disagree but when they start defining terms realize they have more in common than they think.
Interesting, "hypostatic union"......Where can I find this in the Bible.....Keep lying to yourself. The entire doctrine of the trinity is not found neither explained in the Bible. You rely on what the Church tells you, because you can't explain with the bible. Only in Greek mythology Gods can have gods as sons and only in Greek mythology Gods can actually die. Wait a moment, who wrote the new Testament.....Anonymous Greek Authors....
This is terrible. I’m a Christian and love Jesus. He is Gods son, Gods chosen Messiah. If you are Gods son, then you are automatically NOT God…you are his Son. You used the phrase ‘God the Son’ 2-3 times in your video. the term ‘God the Son’ appears nowhere in the Bible…where did you get it from? Please stop with this trinity stuff, it’s destroying peoples faith, and keeping Muslims from coming to the one true God. John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
I'd be more worried about you coming to Christ than any muslim. Cuz what you are saying it's complete heresy. .....let me rephrase that......maybe you are saved....but maybe you just have a very misconstrued understanding of Gods Word. But if that is true, I hope that you are not so narrow minded as to hold to lies when presented with the Truth.
@@Me-ew8uh no worries, I’m used to Trinitarians calling me lots on names and accusing me of heresy/being unsaved etc. But getting back to some simple scriptures if we can? Jesus has a God… John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” The almighty God, does not have a God… I’m not trying to win an argument or accuse you of being hell bound etc… Just trying to show you the simplicity of it all. Who did Simon Peter say Jesus was when Jesus asked him?
@@GD-Personal Since you're so set on Scripture. Where in Scripture does it say "The Almighty God has no God"? And where in Scripture is it said that "if you are God's Son, you are automatically not God"?
@@Southernguy41 if arguing for the trinity means redefining what it means to be dead, redefining who is God and sticking conflicting and contradictory attributes to God then nobody can debunk that. You can’t use logic or theology or common sense or anything. It’s nonsense
@@masjidrats2012 The Trinity is God the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. It’s not nonsense nor mental gymnastics. I really don’t understand what you’re getting at.
Great video Tim! How can we answer the question of the Devine sacrifice? I think you cleared things up about the dying part, but I don’t think it clarified the DS part. Thanks for all you do!
I think the significance of the sacrifice isn't that God's spirit died (it can't,) but that Jesus' divine nature gave his flesh the power to live in perfect accordance with the Law. So when he willingly died but did so without the curse of sin applying to Him, he became the divine sacrifice.
When Jesus cried out on the cross "Why have you forsaken me?" thats when he was dying the second death. He was facing Gods wrath, which seperated him from God in that moment. Then he died. The physical death wasnt the sacrifice, it was the spiritual death that was the sacrifice.
When did you make that up? Providing that is supposed to be a dig against Christianity, this says otherwise. *3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,* _-- 1 Corinthians 15:3_ And whether you like it or not, Jesus supports "trini-land", the Trinity, if that's what that is supposed to mean. *19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them **_in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,_* -- Matthew 28:19_
You believe Jesus is God. And that he only kind of died. Because God cannot die no matter which twist you put on it. I believe Christ is the son of God and died fully and was dead for three days. Not one verse teach, preach or articulate a triune God let alone the dual nature. It’s manmade nonsense and philosophy invented by a pagan emporer.
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@@JKV84 _Because God cannot die no matter which twist you put on it._ Based on what? But to the contrary. It's you who must be doing the twisting. Colossians 2:9, John 1:14. Duality shown in both of these verses. *9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;* _-- Colossians 2:9_ *14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.* _-- John 1:14_
Based on the bible “who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.” God is immortal = he cannot die = god himself did not die on the cross. The verse you provide does not show a dual nature. It is illogical and nonsense invented by men.
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@@JKV84 So apparently what you think that says is wrong since the verses I gave say otherwise and they must all be true, would not contradict each other. So the error must be what you think that means. You can't cherry pick verses that support what you think and ignore the ones that don't.
God is Jehovah God is the Father God is one Christ is Jesus Christ is the Son of God Christ is not God God is not Jesus God is not Christ God is not Son of God God is not three Just tell the truth.
@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod When asked about how he knew Abraham he tells the Pharisee before Abraham was I Am. I Am or 'Ehyeh also translates to YHWH (Yahweh) a title or ascribed to God In John the last of the epistles he writes in John 1: 1-3: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. Jesus is in fact God, lastly Jesus is called the Son of God with a capital S, that is because that is a title, to be known as a Son in that way is to claim to share the same nature as God Himself. This is why the Pharisee sought to kill him, they thought Jesus a blasphemer. So either Jesus is a liar and the Bible is false or he truly is God (the Son) in union with the Father and Holy Spirit
This is a great video to comment on Hosea 4:6: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: To the Mohammedans: Romans 10:2: For I bear them (The Mohammedans,) record that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. Matthew 15:14: Luke 6:39:
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:17-18
John 10:18 KJV No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
“The *doctrines* of the Logos [i.e., the “Word,” a designation for Christ in John 1] *and the Trinity* received their shape from *Greek Fathers,* who . . . were MUCH influenced, *directly or indirectly,* by the PLATONIC PHILOSOPHY . . . *That errors and corruptions crept into the Church* from *this source* CAN NOT BE DENIED” (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Samuel Macauley Jackson, editor, 1911, Vol. 9, p. 91).
Whats crazy is that, it wasnt until I looked in the old testament that I really started to understand The nature of the Trinity of God. As early as Genesis 1:26 “and God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness.” Why would One God speak of himself as if He shared his position with another at his side? If this doesnt seem like enough to convince you, read Genesis 18:1-5. After I heard and read this, God flipped a switch in my brain and it all made sense like never before for me. 1 God, 3 Persons. Its like if you have one cake cut it into 3 pieces. And you take a piece. Just cuz you have a small piece of the cake, doesnt mean its not cake anymore. Just cuz Jesus was come down as a human, doesnt mean he was any less God. 🙏🏻
Glad to see Tim taking this typical Muslim challenge on! I love David Wood's response to this, which demonstrates that Muslims themselves have to contend with the idea of an entity having two natures. The question is, "Can the Quran be destroyed?" They would say no, it's Allah's eternal speech. But them hold up a Quran; what is this? Well, the non-physical Quran has taken on a physical form. And they won't take kindly to the idea of the physical Quran being maimed, burned, etc.
“In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God. The word of God became flesh and dwelt among us.” Yochanon 1:1-3
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Also the error is that they think they can tell God what He can and can't do. Since Christianity teaches that Jesus, being fully God, died, your not believing that or your thinking it doesn't make sense does nothing to make it untrue. They want to claim that Jesus based on the Bible is a prophet, but ignore the Bible where it says Jesus is God and died. You can't have it both ways. It's either all of it, or none of it.
There's a simple counter: Jesus is both human and divine at the same time, so as he physically died, he did so as a divine being. In the same way that when I die my soul does not cease to exist, when Jesus died, his divinity did not cease to exist. If we accept humans as having multiple natures (body, soul, spirit) and we say that a person has died, while only referring to the body, then we can accept the same thing with Jesus in that he has multiple natures and can be said to have died as a divine sacrifice because he was still divine in nature as he died in body.
Jesus expressed plainly that He had the authority from God the Father, to lay his life down and take it back up again. Thats how Jesus, being the sacrificed Lamb of God, was able to die and rise again to bring salvation.
As we say in Orthodoxy every Easter (or Pascha), "It (aka Hades) took a body, and face to face, met God! It took earth and encountered heaven!" (From the Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom)
It is puzzling when someone claims that a God who cannot die, got killed. The one who died was not God but: (Galatians 4:4) But when the full limit of the time arrived, God SENT HIS SON, who was born of a woman and who was under law, Jesus had been an Angel son of God. Since angels cannot be killed by humans, this angel was transformed into a human form. See Philippians 2:7 too.
This one of them moments as Christian’s. We have to neglect the world whatever schedule you have booked in. Explain the truth start to finish. Explain how their book says our book is good and from God and cannot be changed. Then Explains the Father the Son and the Holy spirit. Recite verses which say such as ‘I and the father are one’ and 1 John 5:7. Throughout explain that they cannot but in until you have finished. Then explain the verse in the Quran where God is in the Bush and that Jesus is a spirit directly from God and gave life to a clay bird. Then respectfully leave saying you believe in One God and his Image is Jesus but you need to read the Bible because again your book tells you it’s good for reading and from God and cannot be changed. Then ask them to pray for you to receive wisdom and that Youl do the same for them. Then bam back to whatever schedule you had. Better option because they won’t let you leave until they have made out you are running or being a coward. Actually have a card with your email and even better a Bible for them to read. If they reject your email address and the Bible (or right at the beginning cannot shake your hand or share their name) you must explain that Jesus loves them an died for their sin but I have to walk away because you are not respecting me even though your book tells you to. Jesus is king. Hope you got that. Stay strong in prayer. Do your research. And don’t run from chances to preach the Gospel ☝️❤️☝️✝️☝️🕊️
@@healingthroughchrist1988 I don’t know if ‘but we should also just walk away when someone wants to argue’ for me I believe our God loves it when we bless our enemies. No better way with the light yoke of preaching the Gospel to them. It can be hard to keep your cool and love for your potentially saved Muslim brother. Also requires back bone but call upon the Lord for strength and stay in prayer. That’s why I like to go about my days seeing opportunities as to when I should preach the Gospel. But also once a week a make a clear time day and area where Boldly I make it my aim no matter what darkness arises I’m going to atleast get the person I interact with to hear the Good news that God loves you died On a cross for you to be washed clean and if you believe in him you will receive the free gift of eternal life Amen. I had a women 3 weeks ago being racist towards me only acknowledging my friends existence when she found out we we’re Christian’s all she did was just share all the curses of the world and how much she was struggling. Was being very rude especially to me. Anyhow through prayer and also shining light and pointing out to people eg. ‘ that doesn’t serve you and you’ve said that and repeated that can you now give us a chance to share what we know with you’ through long suffering we actually had the chance because of our patience. To pray over her. Sharing the Gospel and shining light on darkness in her life. And afterwards she was uplifted and apologetic. Our Lord is Great we must be faithful and bold. Don’t be like Jonah running away from your mission. Godbless you in Jesus name ☝️❤️☝️✝️
@@josephmorgan370 My concern is that if you don't walk away from someone who wants to argue, you'll end up losing your patience with them. This pushing them further away from God than they already are. It's a much better witness to walk away from a foolish argument that nobody would win. I've seen clips of the Atheist Experience where the Christian caller loses their patience while the atheists remains calm.
@@healingthroughchrist1988 yes Thankyou for your concern. But I don’t think this is what is scriptural. Yes a soft tongue can break bones. But ultimately everyone needs to hear scripture. That the Father came as the Son died for our sins on the cross, defeated death rose from the dead on the 3 day countless eyewitnesses witnessed the events and left us with the Holy Spirit ever since for those who call upon his name ☝️❤️
Thank you Christian's for going against the bible allowing women leader's in the churches all around the world. We have women Elders and pastors now leading in prayer and the men sit and listen 🙏 nice one
Sounds like someone claiming that a square is round. Sorry! Either God can die or God cannot die. If God is able to change his form and die, it means that God is not immortal. (Habakkuk 1:12) Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. Who did the dying. This will explain it. (John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that 'GOD' GAVE HIS ONLY-BEGOTTEN SON, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. The angel son whom God created first was GIVEN BY GOD as a sacrifice. (John 1:2) THIS ONE was in the beginning WITH GOD.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father." (John 10:18, ESV)
The Devine sacrifice came through the shedding of innocent blood. Even the Karan says Jesus was sinless but who can live a sinless life? No one. So God had to do it but had to do it as a man not as the eternal God. So, he put Christ into a physical body, lived a sinless life and shed his blood to redeem us all. But no amount of explaining will help a Muslim understand this concept. Not because they lack intellect but because they choose to. 🤷🏿♂️
Philippians 2:6-8 explains it: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
My friend if you don't read the bible you won't understand. We believe in one God which is the The Trinity-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit-is not a belief in three gods but one God in three Persons. It’s a complex concept, but it doesn’t contradict the oneness of God. Instead, it shows the unique way God reveals Himself: the Father creates, the Son redeems, and the Spirit empowers. The discussions around the Trinity aren’t debates about whether there’s one God but about understanding His nature more deeply. It’s about exploring the mystery of how God can be one and still relate to us in these distinct ways.
@@MoapaManuel If you think debating beliefs is a ‘trap,’ it shows you don’t understand how finding truth works. It’s through open debate and discussion that we challenge ideas, learn, and grow. Even in your own belief system, scholars debate interpretations to understand better. So, if you’re not here for genuine conversation, that says more about your logic than mine. 😂
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
The death on the cross proved Jesus’ humanity. The empty tomb proved His divinity.
well put
Doesn’t the empty tomb just prove that Jesus is Gods chosen Messiah, that God chose to resurrect?
@@GD-Personaldepening on your faith, the Father and the Son are the same person, ala catholicism. However LDS people like myself know they're two different people.
@@GD-Personal In John 10:18, Jesus says, "No one takes it [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."
Yes, God the Father resurrected Christ, but it is also true that Jesus has the power to take his life up again and was working in his own resurrection. A merely human person does not have this authority.
@@AtlasofSol No, roman catholics are trinitarians.
Jesus took on a mortal body, so that he COULD die and be the divine sacrifice.
What was that guy even thinking? Muslims believe the Torah. So physical animals can take away sin, but the physical body of Jesus can't?
@@danielbu2611 The animals/sacrifice thing goes back to the law of Moses that some of the first 5 books in the bible go into painfully detailed explanation about the law of moses.
Yes, I don't know why people struggle with this. It's the same with us just about because when we die it is just our bodies and not our spirit that dies. So we don't die either. Take care
@@muppetonmeds We don't die in terms of ceasing to exist. But death is in essence separation. Physical death is separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death is separation of the Soul from God. Revelation calls it "the second death".
@@danielbu2611 exactly, death has such a negative connotation, and is woefully misunderstood.
Ex Muslim here, never stop exposing them. Jesus is king 🙏🏾
Define “only”
You will have no excuse on the day of judgement. I hope you’re ready.
@@OzzyHamid-cl2fi _You will have no excuse on the day of judgement. I hope you’re ready._
Sure he has an excuse. Accepting Jesus is King is the perfect excuse. Your refusing to do so, there is no excuse for that.
Jesus was a prophet, he is not God. A human can never be a God.
What is the difference between you and the Hindus who believe that cows are Gods, do you have the right to deny their worship?
You don't have the right to tell them that Cows can not be God.
@@bebobauomy1265 because Jesus claimed to be good and backed up that claim with miracles, something only the divine god can do.
One of the best channels I've ever seen. NEVER stop.
"God is dead" Nietzsche and Christians.
@@keksi6844 lol that's good!
A fun question to throw back at the Muslim is, is God alive? By the scientific definition of life, he isn't. So clearly, not only are we dealing with an equivocation, we're dealing with a categorization error. The definition of life needs to be addressed, too.
Well said!
Yep, hadn't though of that yet. My main argument against this is by humbling himself to take on human flesh, Jesus made the greatest sacrifice that anyone can ever make... infinitely far beyond what any human can make... and he made this commitment while he was / is God.
But even if death is demanded, that too was satisfied. Jesus is simultaneously both true God and true Man. He's not 50% God and 50% man. So when the God the Son incarnate died, his spirit was released from the flesh (i.e. death), but that is still God's the Son's spirit, not a human spirit. Ergo, we have a divine, sacrificial death in every sense of the phrase.
@@sidwhiting665 How is it a sacrifice? God is omnipotent, immortal, and omniscient, right? So how is *anything* god chooses to do a sacrifice? By that logic, every senseless death of a human is a sacrifice, not part of any divine plan. For 30 odd years out of infinity, a piece of god played at being human, and you think that's a tremendous sacrifice?
@darrennew8211 you think leaving your home of perfect peace and harmony where you are only worshipped and adored and then coming to be born as an impoverished human, working his entire life just to live, then starving in a desert to have his flesh tempted by Satan himself, then dying an excruciating death the likes of which had never been seen...
You think that isn't a worthy sacrifice? You think leaving behind and suppressing his divinity wasn't enough? Idk what else I could ever tell you to change your mind.
I mean, that's most definitions of life not even the scientific definitions, so this is really just semantics, typical of the Muslim to not understand language.
"debunks" *doesnt let him finish his sentence*
That’s what I noticed 💀
Thats wh- IT's A LOGICAL FALLACY!!!!!
Classic Muslim debate
That’s what they do , so they will do whatever of not knowing the truth or they don’t want to be exposed .
The Muslim gave him the opportunity to explain himself and he responded with 'I wish I could talk more...' and 'I've got to go'. There are also cuts in the video to make the short.
Thank you. I too have fallen to the trap of accepting the premise of the question instead of making sure that we agree with the terms of the question. Always ask questions when faced with a difficult question. 😇
As I was watching the debate between the Christian and the Muslim, a question that popped in my head was, "did God stay dead?" Jesus' resurrection should never be absent in a discussion of His death.
Yahweh is Yahshua there is not God head in the Bible. Yahshua means Yahweh saves no other name does. HALLELU-YAH read Isaiah 12:2; 43:10-12 is John 8:23-24 I AM HE 2 Corinthians 5:19 HALLELU-YAH
Here is testimony by the Apostles on how Jesus came back to life.
(Acts 2:32) God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.
@@jimjuri6490 Did you know the name Jesus is Latin pronounced Hey-Zeus it means nothing in Hebrew. Hebrews 13:8 If Yahshua means Yahweh's deliverance in Hebrew He is the same yesterday and today & forever is he not?❤
So your god is mortal? Many people were resurrected in the bible btw
@@emirtaufiq Yahweh the Father made a body & put his spirit in it just like in everyone of us on earth. Isaiah 55:11 His Spirit is a it His word is a thing.
Thank you! I always appreciate your videos! Your careful attention to detail and calm response should be the approach of every apologist and evangelist. You are an excellent example of the goal being the fight for the soul, not the fight for the argument. Thanks again Red Pen Logic!
In other words, death is one of the things which can happen to a physical creature - whether or not that physical creature has a spirit which continues to exist after death, and which can be re-connected with its body.
So, as a human being can die (but not cease existing), Jesus, being a human being, can die. Jesus, being also God, can still die. But His dying is not a contradiction with His Godhood, because it is only death in the same way all humans die - physically.
Muslims, by using this argument, are either playing word games, or making death more than what it is, while also strangely cheapening what death is.
Also, you can ask them, so the Quran is eternal? But you can destroy a Quran, can't you? Therefore, the Quran is mortal! And see how they like that line of thinking.
Well done
Yes, it's the same thing when our bodies die we live on. I don't know why people struggle with this? Take care
Exactly! I also answered but after you without knowing you answered the same way. Very good!
Frankly, Muslims spit nothing but lies so they really don't think about or care about what they are saying until they are called on and shut down.
Notice the Muslim kept cutting off the Christian? It's on purpose. He pretends to want answers but in reality just wants to prop himself up.
except the christian god won't let anybody die. and "whether or not that physical creature has a spirit which continues to exist after death, and which can be re-connected with its body". Magnificent obfuscation and clearly your own word game.
Red Pen Logic, thank you for your videos. They are really informing. God Bless you 🙏
He didn’t debunk the holy trinity, he intentionally took the christian’s words out of context and blocking his full speech to make himself feel better and look better.
So good! Allways, before answering questions, make sure to ask, "what do you mean by that"
I will! Thank you ❤️
I would love to see you touch on Islamic topics more often. It is still one of the most apparent plagues in this modern world.
if you see islam as a plague in this world, you're probably on team satan
Follow - GOD LOGIC, JAY DYER, SAM SHAMMOUN, DAVID WOOD
Just to name a few
@@pratiksalve8823 Ah yea, I know of them, and watch mostly David's stuff, of those you've listed.
I suppose I just mean the more people that talk about Islamic issues, the better people's defence will be pertaining to it.
Pagans 😂
@@War-3764
You kissed 😘 the black stone yet?
Baffled only by his lack of understanding of the concept he wants to argue against.
I’m honestly starting to believe that understanding these types of discussions and concepts should be mandatory in order to get involved with evangelicalism and ministry.
@@ryankelly9032.....edited( this is sarcasm for those with no sense of humor)
well, I know absolutely no theology, couldn't even tell ya the name of the god i worship but my church has the best coffee you ever tasted.
Our child care facilities are second to none and everyone in our congregation knows well over 500 K-love songs and our minister has a degree in audio engineering. You should see our light show!!!
With all that work, I am sure god will let us in to heaven 🤔.
@@rustyshackleford9557 I’m a little confused by your comment. I would agree that the showiness of many churches today does nothing to spread the gospel or lead to real salvation, but I’m not sure how it relates to the topic at hand.
@@ryankelly9032 I was being sarcastic.
I find that many Christians are utterly unable to intelligently defend their faith.
I thought I read a comment from another person stating that folks should be better equipped with knowledge to better spread the gospel.
I see modern churches often that are only equipped to serve coffee and host little contemporary music sing alongs.
@@ryankelly9032 sorry my post was censored. I will try again
I simply see a modern church lacking in biblical knowledge and apologetics but very good at entertaining members.
What's always interesting to me is the Muslim attempts to destroy the trinity when I don't think they understand what it is. Even their false prophet got it wrong in the Koran, saying in Koran 5:116 that Mary and Jesus were claiming to be God, implying Mohamed thought the trinity was the Father, Son and Mary. If Mohamed can't get the trinity correct, how can we expect Muslims to get the trinity correct? Or do they not believe their own supposedly perfect book?
yeah islam is a mess
Also the Muslim in the clip was barely letting the other guy speak, kept interrupting him. Like dude, be slow to speak, quick to listen (James 1:19).
@AcousticThoughts159 Muslims see letting the other person speak as weakness. That’s why Sam Shamoun is seen as “rude”, but he 100% understands how they are strength and weakness.
I would have asked the muslim to explain who the trinity is
Then I would have shown him in the quran that alla thinks Mary is part of the trinity.
Epic fail, mohammalla
“And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?” He will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say?” Quran 5:116
The verse never makes the claim about the trinity being Mary, Jesus and god, It doesn’t even say trinity. But it says people will claim Jesus and Mary to be gods besides Allah which doesn’t imply anything to do with the trinity.
He’s using that equivocation to create a straw man, so it’s actually two fallacies in one. The Christian in the video likely doesn’t have the education in logical argumentation to even know where to start.
The Christian did better than I thought he would. He does need to brush up on common Islamic apologetic arguments, though, if he's going to voluntarily go toe-to-toe with them. They are not dumb people.... many are highly intelligence, schooled, and prepared to poke holes in everything they find objectionable about Christianity. Problem is, they've been taught a false version of what Christian's believe, so they make objections about stuff we don't even teach.... unless you're in a bad church.
It's not a straw man if it's your own argument. A straw man is when you're arguing against what someone else said and lying about what they said. The muslim asks questions that give contradictory answers, so by definition it can't be a straw man.
@@darrennew8211 it’s a straw man because it’s an inaccurate presentation of the Christian position. He pretends there is a contradiction by presenting only half of the argument. He makes it seem reasonable through equivocation.
@@ryankelly9032 He's not presenting an argument. He's asking questions. That's the point. He's not saying "A follows from B." He's asking "Is B?" Then "Does A follow from B?" Then "Does A not refute B?"
You can't straw-man an argument if you're getting the other person to make the argument by asking questions. He makes absolutely no statement about what the other person is arguing. He's 100% asking the other person to explain his confusion.
@@darrennew8211 He is presenting an argument, he’s just attempting to use the Socratic method, which consists of asking questions to lead the listener to a specific conclusion. The questions he’s asking are based on false premises, and demonstrate that he either doesn’t understand the position he’s arguing against (intentionally or not) or he does and he’s lying to appear as if he won. That’s what a straw man is and its entire purpose.
Dude. That was a very good break down. Thank you so much for all you do! Keep up the great work!
Thanks for making these debunking videos for people who has questions or that are trying to "expose" Christianity! I'm a new subscriber
The Trinity has never been a Christian teaching.
Here is what proper Christians believe as shown by Paul.
(1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father,
There is no Son and holy spirit who are God.
God's son and God's holy spirit is something that BELONGS to God.
Like saying 'Peter's letters'.
Great response and great reminder! We need to define terms!
This is helpful because I didn't recognize the equivocation until you mentioned it.
He kept cutting the guy off as he tried to explain. His argument is based on human thinking. He is limiting who God is.
_He kept cutting the guy off as he tried to explain. His argument is based on human thinking. He is limiting who God is._
Right, the Muslim kept imposing His Islam version, the corrupted version, of Christianity on to what the true version of Christianity is to set up a straw man.
There are many things God cannot do. One is change form and another is, die.
(Malachi 3:6) “For I am Jehovah; I do not change.
(Habakkuk 1:12) Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.
Jesus did both.
@@jimjuri6490Clearly by change it means, God’s values. Not his appearance. Secondly, Jesus’ HUMAN BODY perished but was RESURRECTED. God is spirit. There is no contradiction here, just things taken out of context and misunderstanding.
@@Ctacobell : (Malachi 3:6) “For I am Jehovah; I do not change.
How can someone say this only means God's values? Jesus confirmed this fact that God doesn't change HIS FORM.
(John 4:24) GOD IS A SPIRIT, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”
Jesus' human body with the life in it was sacrificed TO GOD. Once a sacrifice is made it cannot be taken back.
The problem you have is starting off believing that Jesus was God and then trying to fit scriptures to blend with this idea. Jesus was NEVER God.
(John 20:31) But these have been WRITTEN DOWN so that you may believe that Jesus IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.
@@jimjuri6490 I don't see how that passage disproves Jesus being God. Keep trying to disprove, you can't. Quit coping, quit lying.
Good explanation but you missed his follow up question of "where is the eternal sacrifice?" It is in the dual nature of Jesus. Jesus put on flesh to walk among us and that flesh was crucified, but Jesus was not only flesh He is also God, as a person of the Trinity, so both His human nature and divine nature received the punishment. Jesus was sinless in His human nature (and even the Qu'ran affirms this) and He is perfectly/infinitely Holy in His divine nature so even though only the flesh can die the punishment and sacrifice is applied to both natures. Any punishment applied to an infinitely holy being is infinite by definition and more than enough to cover all the sin of finite and fallen beings.
That didn't make any sense to me. What was the punishment for the divine nature?
@@Ahmed-DBThe punishment was not FOR His divine nature it was applied to both His human and divine nature as He was fully human and divine. The divine nature of Jesus cannot die because it is spirit (and God) but when Jesus took on flesh He was BOTH divine and human (humanity was an addition to His divine nature not a replacement of His divine nature). Thus what you did to Jesus the man, you also did to Jesus the second person of the Trinity. When Jesus suffered and died on the cross, He was innocent, both in His human nature and His divine nature. This is the sacrificial attornment. It was foreshadowed in the Old Testament by the sacrifice of unblemished animals. When he was beaten and nailed to the cross it is important to remember that because Jesus embodied a duel nature, so He suffered as God and man. His human body died and for 3 days and for those 3 days He existed as only Spirit (divine nature) but He resurrected that body and again added flesh to his divine nature. After 40 days He ascended into heaven and maintains both His divine and human nature forever.
@@moose9906Eh… not sure how we could say that the divine nature received punishment? It almost sounds like we would have to invoke partialism but, even then, that still wouldn’t make sense.
God would never punish His own divine nature/essence! If Jesus has the fullness of deity, that fullness cannot be punished.
Otherwise, we would have to say God punished Himself when, clearly, that’s not the case.
@@moose9906Besides, within a classical framework, I think it follows that only the human nature receives punishment.
Classically, trinitarians argue that Jesus has two wills for his two natures: one human will and the one divine will of the Trinity.
When the Son is subject to the Father (Luke 22:42), the classical trinitarians would say that’s his human will in subjection, not the one divine will of the Trinity.
(The emphasis on one divine will is supposed to push back against the implications of tri-theism.)
Hence, I think you could be consistent as a classical trinitarian and say that only the human nature of Jesus received punishment.
@@zekdom I think we need to define what actually happened here. The concept is not punishment. The concept is atonement. Christ atoned for our sins. He was not punished for our sins. Rather he took on humanity's punishment.
Think of it like being in court room with your son for a speeding ticket. The judge slaps him with a $100 fine. He's broke and will go to jail if he doesn't pay (yeah, I realize that's not how it really works.... bear with me), so you decide to pay the debt for him. You are not being "punished"; you simply atoned for his actions by paying his fine. Punishment is a form of behavioral conditioning that is designed to evoke deterrence (i.e. stop doing the bad thing), but you never sped, so you are not deterred from doing a bad things that you never did in the first place. Hopefully you son IS deterred because he recognizes you made a sacrifice for him.
Atonement, on the other hand, reconciles God and Man, through God voluntarily taking the punishment due to humans. Only he is capable of doing this, because only he is holy. Infinitely holiness can cover finite sinfulness. Think about it: even if humanity survives 1,000,000 years and everyone who ever lives sins 1,000,000 times.... God's holiness is still MORE than all the weight of all the sins throughout all history.... because his holiness is infinite. The number of human sins is finite, including the number of sinful human natures. Even if there are 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,00,000 sins to atone for, limitless holiness is all that + infinity more.
In summary, God takes on our punishment, but he himself is not punished. Rather, he atones (makes right) the relationship between God and Man.
Good point, mate. Well explained. I'm just saddened because the right people who need to watch the video might not come across it. But please, keep making videos like this. At least, anyone who wants to argue, we'll do it here in the comment section. Thanks mate! God bless.
The two natures explanation is very good. Good video. Also when the Muslim asks where the divine sacrifice is when the Christian says that the divine nature didn’t die, I think it’s important to note that the wrath of God was satisfied on the cross (when Jesus is still alive) and completed when he says it is finished.
I heard someone say, "look for the assumptions within the question." There's so many silly things that people don't consider before they ask questions or make statements. The apologist has a great challenge with this stuff. Kudos to this guy.
Without watching the video I can confidently tell you the Muslim did not debunk anything.
Excellent, short, to the point video. "Trinity un-debunked in 167 seconds."
It's called "Rebunked"
Here is the Trinity debunked in 3 seconds. The time taken to read this truth.
'No man has SEEN God at ANY TIME.' - 1 John 4:12.
At least it rules out Jesus from being God. Plenty of people SAW Jesus.
Great video! Love what you're doing there with your channel and your ministry. Great stuff! God bless!
Thank you so much!
Wow! Best explanation for nature of Trinity. This nailed it. People think winning an argument validates their thinking until they meet their match. You should have taken that question..
The same way that your flesh dies, His died too.
Neither of you stopped to exist.
That is not biblical. In the Bible you actually do stop existing at death
@@sgame82 We stop existing at death? There is no hell or heaven?
@@bebobauomy1265 There is a heaven and hell but they are not what many people were taught to believe. The Bible says in in Psalms 146:4 when he goes to the ground his thoughts perish. Ecclesiastes 9:10 says there is no work or wisdom or knowledge in the grave.
And Hell is not some fiery place where people continue to exist and are tormented which the devil is in charge of. These are teachings that mislead people.
fax
@@sgame82 Yes, his thoughts and plans, not his soul. Please do not interpret the text as you want to support your claim, the Bible explicitly says that the soul does not disappear after death.
For example, Luke 16:22, 23.
There is one sentence that summarize both : John 10 : i have the power to give my life and take it back. No one has the power to take my life, i give it myself.
We know that Yeshua/Jesus never lied.
He gave back The Spirit at the cross when he chooses to do so, which man can choose the moment when he dies?
He is also ressurected so He has chosen the moment of His own ressurection, while He was dead, which man can decide to ressurect himslef while dead?
That's the proof he was both 100% human and 100% God so it was a divine sacrifice.
Ps: sorry for my english, sometime autocorrection, i'm french.
Sam Shamoun has already dealt with this before. "Die" as in "cease to exist"? No. "Die" as in the body died and the spirit/essence is still alive? Yeah.
Matthew 28:19 is a prime example for the trinity.
You don't go and make disciples in the name of just one, but in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for the breakdown, I really enjoy all that you do, hope to see you next week at the Biblical Worldview Conference!
Here’s my rebuttal of Islam, why did a prophet of God have a six-year-old wife
she barley left kindergarten 💀
that happened 1400 years ago
meanwhile someone could get married at 6 200 years ago
@@veryrandomusere I’m not talking about some random person from 1400 years ago, talking about someone who claimed to have God speaking morality into his ear. Therefore, I would expect absolute morality in his actions.
So either Muslims think that God supports marrying six-year-olds, in which case why is it illegal now in Islamic countries? Is there own God wrong about morality?
Or, God told Mohammad it wasn’t OK, and he ignored him and did it anyway.
Even a more fun fact: when the prophet (police be upon him), a MAN breastfed him...
My suspicion is that MuhamMAD was full of it
Conceding that Jesus died as a Muslim sure is a strange position to take, considering the Quran explicitly says that didn’t happen
If an author writes himself into his novel, and then his avatar in the novel dies, did the author die?
Saying that only the human nature of Jesus died is the Nestorian heresy. The muslim was right in pointing out the inconsistency that flows from this heresy.
Quite frankly, I don’t see how it’s Nestorian to emphasize the human nature of Jesus’ death… when it’s considered Orthodox that only Jesus’ human will is subject to the Father (Luke 22:42) - avoiding the claim that the one divine will of the Trinity is in any way subject/subordinate.
Functionally, I see no difference. Only the human will of Jesus is subject to the Father’s will, and only the human nature of Jesus died a physical death. What’s the difference between these two points?
The Third Council of Constantinople’s ruling on the two wills of Jesus made it inevitable that trinitarians would emphasize the human nature of Jesus in certain contexts.
@@zekdom James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
The Jesus I believe in is not double minded. He is Gods son…his chosen messiah.
Please stop with this trinity mess…it’s destroying peoples chances of finding the one true God, and his only begotten son Jesus.
@@GD-Personal Speaking of James, James 5:10-11 is most revealing when read in context. What kind of Lord are we seeing here?
@@GD-Personal There should be no problem saying that the one true God is the Father Almighty (John 17:3).
What trinitarians are saying is that the Word and Holy Spirit can be called God because they are one with the Father in essence - the Word and Holy Spirit are essential to the Father’s identity.
When you invoke the Father, you invoke all of him, including his Word and Spirit.
Can God exist apart from his own wisdom? Of course not! God is forever wise.
And Jesus is that Wisdom (1 Corinthians 1:24 and Matthew 11:19). This is Wisdom Christology.
And of course, no text suggests that the Holy Spirit is created - at one point did not exist. Therefore, the Holy Spirit has always existed with the Father.
Wherever the Father is, so too is the Spirit of God (Psalm 139:7).
The Holy Spirit cannot be taught anything - implying the Holy Spirit already knows everything (Isaiah 40:13).
This Holy Spirit is one with God; we cannot separate the Spirit from God Almighty!
To be clear, classical trinitarians agree that the Son and Holy Spirit have the Father as their source, in that the Son is begotten by the and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. (Filioque controversy aside.)
The classical trinitarian argument is that the Son is essentially, atemporally caused. What’s the justification, you may ask?
Let’s look at the flame analogy. The flame is the cause of its own light and heat. And yet, the flame could not be a flame without the light and heat.
Now, let’s switch from that finite example to the infinite God Almighty. (The flame analogy seems appropriate because God is described as a “consuming fire” in Hebrews 12.)
God is the source of his own radiance, the radiance of his glory. And yet, God is always radiant with glory because that’s who he is - a radiant, glorious being. That’s essential to his identity as the Almighty.
Thus, God must be generating this radiance of his own glory forever.
Well, the Son is described as this very radiance, the radiance of God’s glory (Hebrews 1:3)! Therefore, the Son is both (essentially) caused and eternal - generated outside of time long ago in eternity past. That’s the essential oneness we’re seeing here, not just unity in purpose.
If anybody has any confusion over this topic - whether trinitarian or unitarian - I recommend reading Tertullian’s Against Praxeus.
In that, Tertullian makes it simple: when he sees both the Father and Son, Tertullian will refer to the Father as “God” and Jesus as “Lord”. And when the Son alone is in view, Tertullian would call the Son “God”.
In my estimation, that’s a beautiful and simple way to address the Father Almighty and his Son.
@@zekdom If the divine part of Jesus didn't die, then He is not the Messiah. Jesus was fully God and man, but He had to experience the same kind of death as everybody else. The part that makes this belief illogical is that only a God Being could provide atonement for sins. Jesus couldn't do that with just His human self because He didn't commit any sin. And even if He did, it would only pay for His own sins and nobody else's.
Nice work, love this channel.
Wonderful to have this channel.
No, that Muslim did not disprove the trinity!
The Bible does disprove any Trinity teaching.
(1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father,
This was Paul showing what proper Christians believe. Only the being Jesus addresses as Father is God.
(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER and your Father and to MY GOD and your God.’”
The same God and Father that Jesus' disciples worship.
@@jimjuri6490 The father, the son and the holy spirit! That's the trinity!
@@TheIrishTheorist8192 : I know! But no Christian believes such a idea.
@@jimjuri6490 well, that's not true at all! I'm a Christian and the trinity is foundational in the Christian faith and Teachings! Jesus is King, Our saviour and God!
@@TheIrishTheorist8192 : No Christian ever has believed in a Trinity. The Leader of Christians is Jesus, the Christ. Matt 23:10.
He didn't believe in a Trinity. This is what Paul wrote regarding Christian belief in contrast to what others believe.
(1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually TO US one God, the Father,
Only the Most Holy One whom Jesus and his disciples address as FATHER is God.
Here are Jesus own words to show this. After God brought Jesus back into the realm of the living, Jesus told Mary:
(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.’”
Jesus had finished his God given assignment as a human. He now had to return to God with his report. The God who had SENT him to carry out God's Will.
(John 4:34) Jesus said to them: “My food is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME and to FINISH HIS WORK.
The Trinity was an apostate church teaching. Read Acts 20:30.
Check out the J W site which helps people with what the Bible really teaches.
The Muslim was demanding, "where is the divine sacrifice?", in order to supposedly debunk Christianity. Does the Bible ever actually refer to Jesus' death as a "divine sacrifice"? If not, then the objection simply doesn't apply.
It's a sacrifice, isn't it? And since it's god being sacrificed, it seems like it's a divine sacrifice? It's like asking a person who can conjure money out of thin air to "sacrifice" a few dollars for charity.
@@darrennew8211 Ok, so you didn't actually answer the question, leaving us to conclude that you are unaware of any Bible passage claiming the sacrifice was "divine". So, if Jesus did have a divine nature along with a human nature, it wasn't required for the divine nature to perish, since the Bible never claims such.
@@schlauchmeister234 I'm not a bible scholar. No, I don't know if the bible says those words precisely. So why doesn't the christian say "there was no divine sacrifice"?
I was also saying the same thing. The bible never claims that. If Jesus took on flesh to die a physical death, that means that his devine nature didn't need to perish for the atonement to be carried out. Sadly, the christian man was not prepared for these trick questions.
@@darrennew8211 "So why doesn't the christian say "there was no divine sacrifice"?" - The Christian in the video? I'm not a mind reader, so I can't speak to his motivations.
However, the more important question is, where is the Muslim's idea of this alleged "divine" sacrifice coming from? If it isn't a Biblical concept, then it is not a legitimate criticism of Christianity.
What is stunning about Islamic apologetics is they will ask the most obvious questions as if they are knock down arguments against Christianity. The death of christ is so central to christianity.... so trying to invalidate christianity by talking about the death of Jesus is just silly.... he probably thinks wow no one thought about that.
I think the Muslims have a valid point.
People who go around claiming that Jesus was God and got killed, have got their beliefs in a knot.
God cannot be killed. That is why the term IMMORTAL applies to God.
(Habakkuk 1:12) Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.
Christians have never believed that their Leader Jesus was also their God.
(1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father,
I would disagree, the resurrection is central to Christianity
Thanks for this! 🙏🏾
I admire how elegant your response is. I wish the Christian guy in the video could watch your answer, go back in time and humble/educate the Muslim fella a little 😊
They always question and attack the Christian faith, never the Buddhist or Hindu or any other faith.
The very faith their own scripture calls truth
Obviously the muslim didnt read the torah.
Never in the Jewish scriptures and theology they say that God is a man that's why they reject Christianity, and don't it's their scripture don't hijack others scriptures to fit in your perspective 😂
@@Ibrahimgamz the jews also believe through their talmud that jesus is burning in hot excrement that his mother is a whore and that jesus is a bastard according to talmud. you don't believe this so why you being hypocrite? why would we therefore think that the jews are responsible to verbatimly dictate the old testament text for us? why you being hypocrite? if they can prove their claims then sure, but your claim is flat. 😂 besides even moses Maimonides concedes that Isaiah 9:6 is about Messiah and the title el gibbor (mighty God) is being indicted to the Messiah. Isaiah 9:6 states there is a Child to be born a Son of God whose name is to be the mighty God. 😂
Commenting on a false messianic claimant who appeared in Yemen, Maimondes wrote:
'Do these characteristics make him a Messiah? You were beguiled by him because you have not considered the pre-eminence of the Messiah, the manner and place of his appearance, and the marks whereby he is to be identified. The Messiah, indeed, ranks after Moses in eminence and distinction and God has bestowed some gifts upon him which he did not bestow upon Moses, as may be gathered from the verses: "His delight shall be in the fear of the Lord" (Isaiah 11:3). "The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him. (11:2). 'And righteousness shall be the girdle of his lions." (11:5). Six appellations were divinely conferred upon him as the following passage indicates: "For a child is born unto us, and a Son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder, and he is called 'Pele, Yoetz, El Gibbor, Abiad, Sar-Shalom." (Isaiah 9:6). And another verse alluding to the Messiah is the following manner: "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." (Psalm 2:7). All these statements demonstrate the pre-eminence of the Messiah.
Christian - Is quran Eternal?
Muslim - Yes
Christian - Can quran be destroyed?
Muslim - No because it is allahs words and is eternal
Christian - So then how come Uthman burnt all the copies of quran which were different than what you read today? Or what if this book of quran gets older and tears apart?
Muslim - You are referring to quran made of paper and ink but not actual words of allah. Book of quran which is also word of allah made of paper and ink can be destroyed but not allahs actual eternal words.
Christian - Oh now I see. So allahs word can become paper and ink which can be destroyed but his actual words are still eternal. So then why do you have a problem when we say the same for Jesus. God's Word, Jesus became flesh and dies for our sins but is still Eternal. His flesh died but his Spirit was still alive. In addition he rose back again on the third day defeating death. Dont you sound hypocrite?.
That’s the best argument I have ever heard about that topic. Thanks 🙏🏻
Jesus being called by the TITLE the Word and the words that God speaks are separate things.
Jeremiah 1:4 The word of Jehovah came to me, saying:
These are spoken words. Not a reference to Jesus.
The apostate church tried to destroy these words which God got written down. But naturally failed.
@jimjuri6490 This is a problem with some people who do no read the scriptures properly and conclude on what suits them.
To the reference that you are giving and misquoting, the verse of Jeremaih 1:4 'The Word of the Lord came to him'. Can you please tell me how the Word might have looked like as the Word came to him physically? Did they looked like characters of Hebrews language to Jeremiah? No because it is Word and not words that came to him. And that LORD touched Jeremiahs mouth with his hand in verse 9. So definitely they are not spoken words as you say.
This is Jesus here as John says in John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God'.
So who was in the beginning? The Word. And this Word was with God and this Word is also God. So this Word is God and also a distinct person of God.
Thats why we are Trinitarians.
Now who is that actual Word of God. For that please read the entire chapter of John and not just 1 verse as you did with Jeremiah. And please have patience I will come to Jeremiah. I promise.
It is Jesus who is the Word of God. Because when you continue reading John 1 and reach verse 14 it also says - 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
So that Word became flesh and dwelt among them. Any guesses who became flesh and was dwelling among them? Yes its Jesus.
So the Word of God is Jesus, the Word who was in the beginning and then became flesh.
Now lets continue Jeremiah and look at the verse which you didnt read. Look at Jeremiah 1:6 where Jeremiah speaks to that Word of Lord which came to him. Thereafter did you read verse 7. I bet you havent read. So please do me a favour and read it and see who responds. No suprise it is the LORD who responds. So the Word of LORD is also LORD similar to what we saw in John (Word of God is also God). I would ask you to read that now in Hebrews language if you can read and understand Hebrews. If not you can use interliner and see what is that Hebrew word which is translated to LORD in english. Surprise surprise it is YAHWEH.
Thank you for bringing this verse which proved that Jesus is the Word of God and he is YAHWEH meaning God.
See how beautiful our Bible is. Both Old and New Testament are beautifully aligned and both of them proves that Jesus is the Word of God and is God (YAHWEH).
I pray that the LORD opens your heart to see the true God.
@@sushil9984 :Deuteronomy 6:6 These WORDS that I am commanding you today must be on your heart,
Revelation 22:18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who HEARS the WORDS of the prophecy of this scroll:
These are SPOKEN WORDS coming out of a mouth written down for us.
Jesus being called the Word is because he is God's SPOKESPERSON. Someone whom God uses to deliver God's words. See Hebrews 1:2.
Jesus cannot be God logically.
(John 1:2) This one was in the beginning with God.
Who is THIS ONE? It is what the earlier verse tells us. The Word. The one whom God created in the beginning.
THIS ONE cannot refer to God who is shown to be WITH God, surely.
I was with my Uncle. Logically I cannot be my Uncle, can I.
@@jimjuri6490 My friend in humanity, you brought Jeremiah and misquoted it and now when you are exposed you are trying to find your way with some other verses like Deuteronomy, Revelation etc.
Why dont you read the Bible and understand rather than picking some verses and translating it to suit your agenda.
You keep repeating same mistake by not reading the Bible properly and I do not understand how many times I need to correct you. Let me help you again here one final time.
You brought Revelation 22. Do you know who the speaker is? Its Jesus. Because the same Revelation 22 in verse 12 - 13, Jesus says 12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Jesus is going to reward us based on how we reacted to his message. Who other than God is First and Last, the Beginning and the End? What more evidence do you need that Jesus is claiming to be God Almighty.
You lied again, where does John 1:1 says that Jesus is created in beginning? Here is the verse. 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'.
Even a less educated person just by reading the entire chapter would easily understand that Jesus is God.
You brought Hebrews 1 making same mistake. Read verse 8-9
8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
Do you know where this is from? Its Psalm 45:6-7.
Why God the Father is addressing his son, Jesus as God? So God the Father is saying Jesus is God but your false prophet tells you that Jesus is not God. So rather than believing what God says, you decide to believe a false prophet who is burning under the feet of Jesus.
Its your choice to decide where you want to end up. God doesnt force you to come to him.
You need to understand now whom are you trying to fool, others or yourself. I continue praying for you my friend in humanity.
Just draw him a picture of Mohammed and tell him “check mate”
Post more videos please! You're a great teacher.
Muslims have a trinity too, allah, quran and black bean stone. Quran is eternal for them giving from angel Gabriel to Muhammad, the stone fell from the sky and was white, but them kissing it takes their sin and now is black and allah is Muhammad and pagen's eternal god.
Yes. The Trinity is manmade nonsense.
There are many verses that show the existence of the Trinity. One of the most notable ones is Mark 1:10,11!
@@DennistheEvangelist-m3l the three present doesn’t prove a trinity
Try again.
Not one verse, apostle, Jesus or God ever tries to preach a triune God.
Even some of your church father agrees with this.
It’s manmade nonsense.
@@DennistheEvangelist-m3l
✅ Jesus preached and practiced 👉 Unitarian
Vs
❌ Your FAITH 👉 Trinitarian
Jesus preached and practiced:
Who is THE ONLY TRUE GOD?
✅ The Father ☝️ (SINGLE PERSON)
(John 17:3)
Who is the God of Jesus?
✅ The Father ☝️ (SINGLE PERSON)
(John 20:17)
@@1trueGodtheFather There was no comeback from the Christian Evangelist. Truth destroyed the falsehood
@@whiteandblack2005 agree. Trinis goes against the clear teachings of scripture.
God can die vs god cannot die
Jesus did not know all things vs Jesus did know all things
The one true God is the father vs the trinitarian God is the one true God
Jesus lowered himself becoming lower than the angels vs he was still God thus not lower than the angels
It’s manmade pagan nonsense.
It's hard to argue about the existence of God with atheists as much as it is to argue the nature of God with Muslims.
Because the audience in both cases are highly resistant, if not immune to all evidence against their religion.
Nah. Atheists just don't think an argument alone without any evidence is sufficient to prove the existence of something. I can show you all kinds of math that prove the universe has 11 dimensions, but I can't point to any of those dimensions or anything they cause, so the math is unconvincing. The same thing with the holy books.
What evidence do you have?
@War-3764
The existence of the universe, for starters.
Because everything that begins to exist needs a cause. the universe began to exist. Therefore, the universe has a cause, and the cause of the universe must be outside the universe.
It is more reasonable and rational to believe that the existence of the universe was caused by a supernatural and omnipotent being rather than being eternal or creating itself. Although atheists are trying to rationalize this with multiverse or quantum mechanics.
Well im not an atheist but okay cool
@@JonBGreen91 Why is it more rational to believe in it being created by an eternal omnipotent deity than that it's eternal, given we actually have several scientific hypotheses that indicate how it could be eternal and no rational reason to believe in any god so far proposed?
And which god do you believe in, such that your holy book discusses the big bang?
Like some of my christians friend told me...they follow paulinity not christianity. Ask 500 christians about the trinity, they will give you 500 different answers
Defining terms is also important because otherwise people can talk past one another. Two people might have different definitions of a word and think they agree but are actually talking about two different things; or they might think they disagree but when they start defining terms realize they have more in common than they think.
Interesting, "hypostatic union"......Where can I find this in the Bible.....Keep lying to yourself. The entire doctrine of the trinity is not found neither explained in the Bible. You rely on what the Church tells you, because you can't explain with the bible. Only in Greek mythology Gods can have gods as sons and only in Greek mythology Gods can actually die. Wait a moment, who wrote the new Testament.....Anonymous Greek Authors....
Read Genesis 18, and please explain what happened.
The hypostatic union can be found easily throughout the Bible. One of the most notable verses is Colossians 2:9!
John 1, Philippians 2.
This is terrible. I’m a Christian and love Jesus. He is Gods son, Gods chosen Messiah.
If you are Gods son, then you are automatically NOT God…you are his Son.
You used the phrase ‘God the Son’ 2-3 times in your video. the term ‘God the Son’ appears nowhere in the Bible…where did you get it from?
Please stop with this trinity stuff, it’s destroying peoples faith, and keeping Muslims from coming to the one true God.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
I'd be more worried about you coming to Christ than any muslim. Cuz what you are saying it's complete heresy.
.....let me rephrase that......maybe you are saved....but maybe you just have a very misconstrued understanding of Gods Word. But if that is true, I hope that you are not so narrow minded as to hold to lies when presented with the Truth.
@@Me-ew8uh hi there. Many thanks for the reply. Are you able to show me where the term God the Son appears in scripture?
Who didn't consume pork and alcohol.
😂😂😂
@@Me-ew8uh no worries, I’m used to Trinitarians calling me lots on names and accusing me of heresy/being unsaved etc.
But getting back to some simple scriptures if we can?
Jesus has a God…
John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
The almighty God, does not have a God…
I’m not trying to win an argument or accuse you of being hell bound etc…
Just trying to show you the simplicity of it all. Who did Simon Peter say Jesus was when Jesus asked him?
@@GD-Personal Since you're so set on Scripture. Where in Scripture does it say "The Almighty God has no God"? And where in Scripture is it said that "if you are God's Son, you are automatically not God"?
the mental gymnastics of Christians is crazy. Alhamdulilah for Islam
Repent and come to Jesus before it’s too late.
How is it mental gymnastics? The Muslim guy, didn’t debunk the Trinity at all.
@@Southernguy41 if arguing for the trinity means redefining what it means to be dead, redefining who is God and sticking conflicting and contradictory attributes to God then nobody can debunk that. You can’t use logic or theology or common sense or anything. It’s nonsense
How?
@@masjidrats2012 The Trinity is God the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. It’s not nonsense nor mental gymnastics. I really don’t understand what you’re getting at.
Philippines 2:6 - 2:11 is basically an early creed that answers this.
Great video Tim! How can we answer the question of the Devine sacrifice? I think you cleared things up about the dying part, but I don’t think it clarified the DS part.
Thanks for all you do!
I think the significance of the sacrifice isn't that God's spirit died (it can't,) but that Jesus' divine nature gave his flesh the power to live in perfect accordance with the Law. So when he willingly died but did so without the curse of sin applying to Him, he became the divine sacrifice.
@@danmiller5869 Thank you. It can be tough to articulate what we believe sometimes
When Jesus cried out on the cross "Why have you forsaken me?" thats when he was dying the second death. He was facing Gods wrath, which seperated him from God in that moment. Then he died.
The physical death wasnt the sacrifice, it was the spiritual death that was the sacrifice.
All about the blood.
The trinity doesn't need debunking. It's not scriptural in the first place
It is scriptural and every Christian believes it: John 10:30
Agreed, Trinity is a horror show…and keeping so many Muslims from finding the one true God and Jesus, his only begotten son.
@@GD-Personal the trinity being false doctrine doesn't make islam true
@@kadenhays2331 a biune?
Matthew 28:19 : Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
No one died for you in trini-land.
When did you make that up? Providing that is supposed to be a dig against Christianity, this says otherwise.
*3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,* _-- 1 Corinthians 15:3_
And whether you like it or not, Jesus supports "trini-land", the Trinity, if that's what that is supposed to mean.
*19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them **_in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,_* -- Matthew 28:19_
You believe Jesus is God. And that he only kind of died. Because God cannot die no matter which twist you put on it.
I believe Christ is the son of God and died fully and was dead for three days.
Not one verse teach, preach or articulate a triune God let alone the dual nature.
It’s manmade nonsense and philosophy invented by a pagan emporer.
@@JKV84 _Because God cannot die no matter which twist you put on it._
Based on what? But to the contrary. It's you who must be doing the twisting. Colossians 2:9, John 1:14. Duality shown in both of these verses.
*9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;* _-- Colossians 2:9_
*14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.* _-- John 1:14_
Based on the bible
“who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.”
God is immortal = he cannot die = god himself did not die on the cross.
The verse you provide does not show a dual nature. It is illogical and nonsense invented by men.
@@JKV84 So apparently what you think that says is wrong since the verses I gave say otherwise and they must all be true, would not contradict each other. So the error must be what you think that means. You can't cherry pick verses that support what you think and ignore the ones that don't.
God is Jehovah
God is the Father
God is one
Christ is Jesus
Christ is the Son of God
Christ is not God
God is not Jesus
God is not Christ
God is not Son of God
God is not three
Just tell the truth.
But you're not telling the truth
@@HearGodsWord which statement?
The Trinity is the truth. John 20:31 supports this.
@@HearGodsWord that verse says that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, it says nothing about God being a team of three people.
@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod When asked about how he knew Abraham he tells the Pharisee before Abraham was I Am. I Am or 'Ehyeh also translates to YHWH (Yahweh) a title or ascribed to God
In John the last of the epistles he writes in John 1: 1-3:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jesus is in fact God, lastly Jesus is called the Son of God with a capital S, that is because that is a title, to be known as a Son in that way is to claim to share the same nature as God Himself. This is why the Pharisee sought to kill him, they thought Jesus a blasphemer.
So either Jesus is a liar and the Bible is false or he truly is God (the Son) in union with the Father and Holy Spirit
Understanding semantics is pivotal.
This is a great video to comment on
Hosea 4:6: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
To the Mohammedans:
Romans 10:2: For I bear them (The Mohammedans,) record that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Matthew 15:14:
Luke 6:39:
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:17-18
My guy doesnt get one second to respond before the muslim interups
fr
How would God show us the way, if He was STILL acting as God?
I wish I was there. That guy would be stumbling after I was done with him.
John 10:18 KJV
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE.”
1 John 5:7 KJV
Thank you, this is really helpful.
“The *doctrines* of the Logos [i.e., the “Word,” a designation for Christ in John 1] *and the Trinity* received their shape from *Greek Fathers,* who . . . were MUCH influenced, *directly or indirectly,* by the PLATONIC PHILOSOPHY . . . *That errors and corruptions crept into the Church* from *this source* CAN NOT BE DENIED” (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Samuel Macauley Jackson, editor, 1911, Vol. 9, p. 91).
They always try to get you to say and agree to stuff as quickly as possible and give you no time.
Former Christian here. Muslim now.
That’s awesome. Do you mind telling me what made you convert?
Whats crazy is that, it wasnt until I looked in the old testament that I really started to understand The nature of the Trinity of God. As early as Genesis 1:26 “and God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness.” Why would One God speak of himself as if He shared his position with another at his side? If this doesnt seem like enough to convince you, read Genesis 18:1-5. After I heard and read this, God flipped a switch in my brain and it all made sense like never before for me. 1 God, 3 Persons. Its like if you have one cake cut it into 3 pieces. And you take a piece. Just cuz you have a small piece of the cake, doesnt mean its not cake anymore. Just cuz Jesus was come down as a human, doesnt mean he was any less God. 🙏🏻
Glad to see Tim taking this typical Muslim challenge on! I love David Wood's response to this, which demonstrates that Muslims themselves have to contend with the idea of an entity having two natures. The question is, "Can the Quran be destroyed?" They would say no, it's Allah's eternal speech. But them hold up a Quran; what is this? Well, the non-physical Quran has taken on a physical form. And they won't take kindly to the idea of the physical Quran being maimed, burned, etc.
“In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God. The word of God became flesh and dwelt among us.” Yochanon 1:1-3
Also the error is that they think they can tell God what He can and can't do. Since Christianity teaches that Jesus, being fully God, died, your not believing that or your thinking it doesn't make sense does nothing to make it untrue. They want to claim that Jesus based on the Bible is a prophet, but ignore the Bible where it says Jesus is God and died. You can't have it both ways. It's either all of it, or none of it.
There's a simple counter: Jesus is both human and divine at the same time, so as he physically died, he did so as a divine being. In the same way that when I die my soul does not cease to exist, when Jesus died, his divinity did not cease to exist. If we accept humans as having multiple natures (body, soul, spirit) and we say that a person has died, while only referring to the body, then we can accept the same thing with Jesus in that he has multiple natures and can be said to have died as a divine sacrifice because he was still divine in nature as he died in body.
Jesus expressed plainly that He had the authority from God the Father, to lay his life down and take it back up again.
Thats how Jesus, being the sacrificed Lamb of God, was able to die and rise again to bring salvation.
As we say in Orthodoxy every Easter (or Pascha), "It (aka Hades) took a body, and face to face, met God! It took earth and encountered heaven!" (From the Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom)
When are you going to start using your red pen again to draw? I miss your illustrations. This would have been a great topic to illustrate.
God can do what God wants.
God is Eternal!
Right, and so Jesus is eternal since He is God.
Apparently he isn’t 😂
Does that include the three days where he was dead ?
Word. Definitions matter.
The divine sacrifice was experiencing hell on the cross and dying LOL why is this so puzzling?
It is puzzling when someone claims that a God who cannot die, got killed.
The one who died was not God but:
(Galatians 4:4) But when the full limit of the time arrived, God SENT HIS SON, who was born of a woman and who was under law,
Jesus had been an Angel son of God. Since angels cannot be killed by humans, this angel was transformed into a human form. See Philippians 2:7 too.
This one of them moments as Christian’s. We have to neglect the world whatever schedule you have booked in. Explain the truth start to finish. Explain how their book says our book is good and from God and cannot be changed. Then Explains the Father the Son and the Holy spirit. Recite verses which say such as ‘I and the father are one’ and 1 John 5:7. Throughout explain that they cannot but in until you have finished. Then explain the verse in the Quran where God is in the Bush and that Jesus is a spirit directly from God and gave life to a clay bird. Then respectfully leave saying you believe in One God and his Image is Jesus but you need to read the Bible because again your book tells you it’s good for reading and from God and cannot be changed. Then ask them to pray for you to receive wisdom and that Youl do the same for them. Then bam back to whatever schedule you had. Better option because they won’t let you leave until they have made out you are running or being a coward. Actually have a card with your email and even better a Bible for them to read. If they reject your email address and the Bible (or right at the beginning cannot shake your hand or share their name) you must explain that Jesus loves them an died for their sin but I have to walk away because you are not respecting me even though your book tells you to. Jesus is king. Hope you got that. Stay strong in prayer. Do your research. And don’t run from chances to preach the Gospel ☝️❤️☝️✝️☝️🕊️
But we should also just walk away when the guy just wants to argue. I've had to do that here on RUclips when debating atheists.
@@healingthroughchrist1988 I don’t know if ‘but we should also just walk away when someone wants to argue’ for me I believe our God loves it when we bless our enemies. No better way with the light yoke of preaching the Gospel to them. It can be hard to keep your cool and love for your potentially saved Muslim brother. Also requires back bone but call upon the Lord for strength and stay in prayer. That’s why I like to go about my days seeing opportunities as to when I should preach the Gospel. But also once a week a make a clear time day and area where Boldly I make it my aim no matter what darkness arises I’m going to atleast get the person I interact with to hear the Good news that God loves you died On a cross for you to be washed clean and if you believe in him you will receive the free gift of eternal life Amen. I had a women 3 weeks ago being racist towards me only acknowledging my friends existence when she found out we we’re Christian’s all she did was just share all the curses of the world and how much she was struggling. Was being very rude especially to me. Anyhow through prayer and also shining light and pointing out to people eg. ‘ that doesn’t serve you and you’ve said that and repeated that can you now give us a chance to share what we know with you’ through long suffering we actually had the chance because of our patience. To pray over her. Sharing the Gospel and shining light on darkness in her life. And afterwards she was uplifted and apologetic. Our Lord is Great we must be faithful and bold. Don’t be like Jonah running away from your mission. Godbless you in Jesus name ☝️❤️☝️✝️
@@josephmorgan370 My concern is that if you don't walk away from someone who wants to argue, you'll end up losing your patience with them. This pushing them further away from God than they already are. It's a much better witness to walk away from a foolish argument that nobody would win. I've seen clips of the Atheist Experience where the Christian caller loses their patience while the atheists remains calm.
@@healingthroughchrist1988 yes Thankyou for your concern. But I don’t think this is what is scriptural. Yes a soft tongue can break bones. But ultimately everyone needs to hear scripture. That the Father came as the Son died for our sins on the cross, defeated death rose from the dead on the 3 day countless eyewitnesses witnessed the events and left us with the Holy Spirit ever since for those who call upon his name ☝️❤️
Thank you Christian's for going against the bible allowing women leader's in the churches all around the world. We have women Elders and pastors now leading in prayer and the men sit and listen 🙏 nice one
Short answer: No, No he didn't.
The other error he makes is he thinks “divine sacrifice” means it must be a divine death, which no Christian ever claims
Jesus is human.
but The Christ is God..
Jesus was God in human form and humans can die. That's how Jesus is God and can die but God can't die.
Sounds like someone claiming that a square is round. Sorry!
Either God can die or God cannot die. If God is able to change his form and die, it means that God is not immortal.
(Habakkuk 1:12) Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.
Who did the dying. This will explain it.
(John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that 'GOD' GAVE HIS ONLY-BEGOTTEN SON, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
The angel son whom God created first was GIVEN BY GOD as a sacrifice.
(John 1:2) THIS ONE was in the beginning WITH GOD.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father." (John 10:18, ESV)
The Devine sacrifice came through the shedding of innocent blood. Even the Karan says Jesus was sinless but who can live a sinless life?
No one. So God had to do it but had to do it as a man not as the eternal God. So, he put Christ into a physical body, lived a sinless life and shed his blood to redeem us all. But no amount of explaining will help a Muslim understand this concept. Not because they lack intellect but because they choose to. 🤷🏿♂️
“Explain.”
“Ok, so-“
“Doesn’t make sense. Explain.”
“Bruh I wasn’t done t-“
“Logical Fallacy. Explain.”
“Would you let-“
“No. Explain.”
Philippians 2:6-8 explains it:
who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
The fact that Christians got to debate the belief in 1 GOD blows my mind 😂
What?
@@ty-jy6sx I know right
My friend if you don't read the bible you won't understand. We believe in one God which is the The Trinity-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit-is not a belief in three gods but one God in three Persons. It’s a complex concept, but it doesn’t contradict the oneness of God. Instead, it shows the unique way God reveals Himself: the Father creates, the Son redeems, and the Spirit empowers.
The discussions around the Trinity aren’t debates about whether there’s one God but about understanding His nature more deeply. It’s about exploring the mystery of how God can be one and still relate to us in these distinct ways.
@@serghernandez4333 thank you for taking the bait 🪤
@@MoapaManuel If you think debating beliefs is a ‘trap,’ it shows you don’t understand how finding truth works. It’s through open debate and discussion that we challenge ideas, learn, and grow. Even in your own belief system, scholars debate interpretations to understand better. So, if you’re not here for genuine conversation, that says more about your logic than mine. 😂
The truth is very simple man
God cannot die. The trinity is non-sense.
Prove it. Define death. Why is the Trinity nonsense?
Read Mark 1:10,11!
History shows Jesus resurrected. If Jesus resurrected, a lot of the dots are connected for us, so we should follow the logic that may be beyond us.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.