Nuclear Flasks at Holywood's Decrepit Gates - Burns NIght - 25 01 24
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Quite by chance I managed to catch a pair of nuclear flasks en-route from the decommissioning Hunterston Power Station on the Firth of Clyde to the Sellafield plant on the Cumbrian coast - only to be horrified by the state of the gates at Holywood level crossing, so decrepit that a 20 m.p.h. speed limit has had to be imposed on all southbound trains.
I commented on the state of the gates a couple of months ago • The 07 11 23 Whitby Je...
The deterioration since then has been truly alarming. The signalman had to come down from his box and use brute force to get the gates to open to allow the nuclear train to pass.
I was a signalman for ten years and most of the boxes that I covered had proper gates. One of the excuses from Network Rail was that there are no suppliers of spares to repair these iconic parts of the railway scene. But, putting your back into turning the gate-wheel kept you really fit especially if there was a strong wind. I loved it.
Yes I agree but heritage railways have no problem in manufacturing and maintaining these gates. Maybe Network Rail should be looking to the heritage sector and supplying them with much needed income. After all they seem to waste enough money on unnecessary things!
@@winco68 What Network Rail mean is there are no skilled wood workers to fabricate new gates, and wood is combustible, and so therefore not acceptable on the railway. Really and what do they use in house roofs then, angle iron? 😁
Privatize all that national sht. Real privatization like Canadian National, not that government controlled concession contract crap.
No spares? - wood, steel rods, turnbuckles, sheet steel, red paint, ... From a time when there were standard components to make things. You can still get them. Perhaps they have no craftsmen.
Amazing the actual mechanism underground, a lot more than people realise. I used to love watching the signalman open & close the gates at Tile Hill & Canley in the 60s.
Tile Hill has a bridge now and the road at Canley across the line was closed completely, long detour now.
When I was a boy, these wind gates were everywhere and then one by one they disappeared. These gates are in a very sad state. There are some level crossing gates on some of the preserved lines. These are in excellent order, therefore the excuse that the gates at this crossing cannot be repaired does not stand up.
Agreed; we're constantly faced with needing parts which haven't been made for 50 years or 100 years or more. So what do we do? *Make* them! In the case of some LBSC engines built in the 1870s, which needed new cylinder blocks, we made wooden patterns, sent them to a foundry with a joint order from three or four preserved lines, and had a batch cast.
I suspect that they're just hanging fire until the entire route is modernised, which was due to happen last year - but didn't!
I actually really love these gates. It's a shame they can't be reliable (or cheap) enough to do at every level crossing... marrying modern warning lighting with gates that alternate between blocking the roadway and blocking access to the tracks. It solves the sad problem of people turning onto the tracks and getting stuck.
- - and much more photogenic - well, they would be if they hadn't been so neglected
We had those gates at Oakley in Fife on the railway up to Comrie Colliery. I remember one day the coal board staff had opened them for a shunter loco taking coal down to main line and forgot to open them again. Chaos through Oakley, Comrie, and Saline. The police called and everything. Someone must have got a bollocking from their manager.
Still used steam locos occasionally right up to early 80s. You saw them from our school playground, never thought much about it tbh!
Well - you know the old saying - You never know what you've got until you lose it! We're all guilty of that.
You have a Holywood too? We have one near Belfast in Co Down in NI. As they say - "there's an 'L of a difference...". Semaphore signal too! These old gates make such sense, stops people trespassing.... even in the 70s and v early 80s my grandparents lived near crossing gates that were manned. Such a wonderful memory that feels so recent.
I know it well and have often passed through it. Best wishes to you from a wet and windy Scotland.
thanks@@schoolshorts - we have sun! weird. lol
It's nice to see old crossings like this still adding to the atmosphere and preserved railways still manage to maintain theirs
This was a lovely peaceful spot full of atmosphere before the gates were allowed to go to rack and ruin. It surely can't be THAT big a job to repair and repaint them.
Only recently moved back to Dumfries and discovered Holywood Station by accident. Great video and narration.
Thank you - and welcome back!
Not far behind you ..
I have not seen wooden gates since I was a kid. My dad was a signalman around Chichester worked the boxes up and down there. I used to turn the wheel to shut the gates. Later we moved into Coastway Cottage, my mum did the gates there no wheel had to do it by hand. What was funny was sometimes she had to ask my dad if it was safe because he was working the local box.
Speaking as a film-maker, they're much more interesting than the modern automatic barriers but - hey ho! - that's progress.
@@schoolshorts I remember they put in half gates in places pricks went around them. Cost them more to replace the lot for numpties with a death wish. Just look at the states no gates idiots run them all the time. My mum had to ring the signal box and told if she had to wait or a three or four minutes to open and shut the gates.
The decline in those gate in just three years smacks of neglect. Ok, there may be missing parts to fix the alignment, but it's simple carpentry to replace the stay and it's just someone with the time and a blowtorch to fix the paint
Absolutely agree - but there's no sign of it happening.
Reminds me of the crossing gates on Castleman’s Corkscrew. Especially the Crowe Crossing gates east of Ringwood. My grandmother told me that on one occasion the crossing keeper left the gates to “road” and a train demolished the lot. May have been in the 1930’s. This meant that the train driver was at fault as it was well protected by signals from my clear recollection in the 1950’s. The Christchurch Road gates west of the station were also operated by a large wheel.
The old GSWR had a good (though not perfect) safety record. The 20 mph restriction suggests that Network Rail's engineers are concerned about the risk of spoiling that record at Holywood.
A manned box and semaphore signals...blimey!!
There are ten manned boxes along the old Glasgow and South Western - and a curious mix of semaphore and modern colour lights.
I like how the T sign is obstructing the wicket gate there. Yes those gates are in an extremely poor state, and I really am surprised they have not been replaced with modern tubular steel gates. I do suspect the bronze bush at the bottom of each of those gate posts is as worn out as our own at Ludborough station, over in Lincolnshire. I'm tasked with the overhall. Those gates at least seem a more simple design compared to our 26ft full gates.
It's anybody's guess when something will be done - the entire 115-mile route was due to be modernised in 2023 but - well - you can see for yourself!
Interesting fact.- a million pounds was spent on refurbishing an ex NER footbridge recently, yet these gates look as though they are on their last legs - literally.
Blame the twenty-five thousand pound hammers and the nine thousand pound toilet seats.
Good to see nuclear industry is still active in the UK!
Not nearly as active as it could (or should?) be - but that's politics - and I strongly discourage political discussions on this channel, so mustn't get started myself!
Really nice, good to see some of these crossings still gates
It's the only crossing of its kind on the entire route - indeed, in the whole of Scotland, so a crying shame that they've allowed it to deteriorate to such a state.
@@schoolshorts okay
Just 3 miles from my house. I love the Holywood crossing. Lovely scenery, the River Nith is just a few hundred yards away
Lovely country - great walking, great filming!
Oh, I love the Scottish brr... I know nothing about trains (although there is drone footage of them on my channel), but I've subscribed simply because of the accent. Greetings from Wiltshire.
Actually I'm Anglo-Irish - but don't tell everyone!
Welcome aboard.
Good filming and commentary Tim. About time the gates were sorted before an accident happens.👍
... Scheduled for next month but. - - will it happen?
... Scheduled for next month but. - - will it happen?
@@schoolshorts hope so.
Looks like a sign they are going to be removed soon
I am guessing the gates post must be Victorian.
You're almost certainly right!
I never knew any gates like these still existed!
They do - but only just!
There are 3 sets of manually operated in the Peterborough area one on the line to Stamford at Uffington, one at Whittlesey on the line to Ely and one just south of Helpston on the ECML.
Per chance you know the locations of any in England? @@schoolshorts
Many thanks for the prompt reply. I will certainly do my best to visit one...@@neiloflongbeck5705
There's a set of wheel-operated gates at Ramsbottom Station on the East Lancs. Railway.
Interesting,I’d be curious to know how old the gates actually are
I wouldn't even know where to start looking for the answer to that one!
Very enjoyable video Tim. I'm surprised they aren't replaced with something a bit more modern. I suppose that will have to wait until the semaphores are replaced with MAS's !
... all of which was supposed to have been done last year! However, as a film-maker I much prefer the old ways so I'm not complaining!
Did the signalman have to push a gate to free it. The state they are in it is amazing the recent storms have not broken them altogether. The drivers will see the warning board service braking distance from the crossing for all types of train, so a lot further away than a 2 car unit needs to slow down, regular drivers will get to know and brake a bit later or if there is enough slack time will not mind slowing early.
Yes - a sad state of affairs. The entire line was scheduled for modernisation in 2023. One of the signalmen told me last year that the gates would be repaired in February 24 - but you heard the man's response yesterday!
@@schoolshorts As ever with NetworkRail nothing runs on schedule due to the mountain of paper work to go through with each operating company for even the most simple job.
You are totally correct. Too many chiefs, not enough indians?@@cedarcam
Very informative and great presentation, subscribed..
Thanks Eric - welcome aboard!
Nice video Tim great camera work as usual I am really looking forward to seeing your next video I hope you get a nice video next time also when is your next video going to be on RUclips best wishes Philip xx
Thank you Philip - steam tomorrow at Carlisle.
It would be a shame if the post where thrown on the scrap heap and they should be donated to a heritage railway trust
- - better still if they restored it to proper condition and left it where it is!
How sad to see those lovely old gates in disrepair? Nobody seems to care any more about our lovely railway heritage.😮😢
A few years ago this was an idyllic spot which took me back to boyhood days of cycling out to quiet country stations to spend an afternoon train spotting. Nowadays it's just derelict - embarrassing.
@@schoolshorts What's happen to this country.😮💨
That's a wide crossing for a dead-end road!
Until 1949 there was a station here!
Were the flasks from Hunterston or Torness?
Hunterston - I expect that flasks from Torness would either travel via the West Coast Main Line or the East Coast and Tyne Valley.
@@schoolshorts Many thanks for your reply! As a wee boy in Kilwinning, I used to see the Hunterston flasks quite often. A pair of 20's were usually on the duty.
The flasks could have come from Dounreay , the very north of Scotland.
@@brianperrie3960 I thought Dounreay was all removed and the contract was completed a while ago?
@@derekporter7658 I know for sure that the defuelling of the two AGRs at Hunterston B is in progress. Both AGRs at Torness are still generating, so will also be producing regular flask shipments to Sellafield.
I'm less sure about the status of flask movements from Dounreay to Sellafield.
And yet that's a new grade at the crossing. How much are you willing to bet this crossing started having problems with the gate when they did that construction?
The gates have been steadily deteriorating over a number of years - simple neglect, probably as a result of the intention to modernise the entire route - which hasn't happened and isn't looking likely in the near future.
Awesome Railfan video Tim 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🚂🚂🚂
Thank you - glad you enjoyed it. Best wishes to you.
the slowest I've seen a Class 68 going over a railroad crossing 💀
- - - and probably going to stay that way for some time to come I'm afraid.
How are the gates operated inside the signal box? A big wheel?
Yes - the last wheel-operated crossing in Scotland.
Like a ship’s wheel.
I remember this guy who was a VR signalman in the early ‘80s when the VR was replacing kerosene era equipment, he had rigged up a staff interlocked garage door.
What would the Lock Picking Lawyer make of that?
He also had a signal on his front lawn.
I made some people laugh by suggesting a wooden gate across the driveway operated by a wheel inside the lounge.
How come only southbound limited?
You'd need to ask Network Rail's engineers that one.
I thought it might be Hollywood, Birmingham when I saw the title but I don't think there is a railway there. Mum, dad, brother & sister used to live there in the 50s and my brother went spotting at the Lickey Incline or the old New Street.
Birmingham is one major city which I've never visited - must put it on my "to do" list before I become too old to travel!
@@schoolshorts Brum was a regular haunt on trips from Coventry. I live on the South coast now but would have loved to see the tram network back that they have now in place back then. Wish we could have our wonderful trolleybuses back too.
Good grief. You're right to shine a spotlight on this decaying critical infrastructure. We'll have to get you a radiation detector if you're going to be doing an encore.
It's only nuclear waste that travels down this line - the really hot stuff (nuclear missiles for the submarine base on the Clyde) goes by road under heavy protection.
I'm sure the flasks used on those trains have nice thick steel bodies that will effectively shield the public from the gamma radiation emitted by used fuel. But even with good shielding, there ought to be some residual gamma ray signature that could be detected...
@@derekp2674 Spent fuel is extremely radioactive, even after sitting in a cooling pond. The shielding will be sufficient to take the activity down to a level which has been legally defined as "safe" for personnel working at certain distances for certain times. However that level is defined, it is not zero!!! It would be fun (and interesting) to see what the dose rate actually is when one of these loads trundles past. Is each flask equally hot, or are some more than others?
@@schoolshorts Nuclear waste (spent fuel) _is_ the hot stuff. Nuclear weapons are not very radioactive at all (not until they are detonated).
@@my.own.devices We live and learn!
Very nice. I was hoping two see these and the others from Carlisle to Kilmarnock and back to Carlisle, but I didn't make it ! 🙄 are you going to Carlisle tomorrow.!?
Yes. See you there?
@schoolshorts yep, I'm think I will get the 10 o'clock train from Dumfries as there seem to be a few freight trains going through, not long after the 10 o'clock train gets to Carlisle .
@@jimmystransportmarvels8815 That's the one I'm hoping to catch.
@schoolshorts I see that either 57009 or 47815 will probably be on the back off the train, and WCR are using there mk2f coaches with a couple of mk1s !! Something different to see !! With 34067 Tangmere and 86259 les ross/Peter pan. ruclips.net/video/jiDlbQbm-8M/видео.htmlsi=nKHE26knE1VP7Ois
The gates look like they just need some TLC, cleaning and repair. Sounds like Network Rail just wants to put an automatic system there and get rid of the signak box. Have it all done from some huge command center and camera, nice and cheap
You're right of course. The entire route was due to be modernised in 2023 but it didn't happen. Lack of funds?
Nice footage for modelling 😊 regards Fred
Not really my thing, modelling, but yes, I can see that it would make for an attractive layout.
@@schoolshorts it’s all the little intricacies you showed great reference material 👌😎☕️
Yeah, sadly it seems that these gates have got to go. A few modern gates with proper signals and likely an upgrade of the rail signalling system should be installed. Really, the idea of manned railway crossings should have been phased out in the 70s.
The short answer to that is the cost of installing a latest spec set of crossing gates and signals is a HELL of a lot of money - and that's even if it's locally monitored. If you want it controlled and monitored remotely, either from an adjacent signal box or from a power box, the cost shoots up even further.
In contrast, the cost of building a new set of tubular steel gates and overhauling the winding mechanism would be pocket money. I konow what you're going to say; what about the crossing keeper's wages? Thing is, those wages are doled out at so much a month; the cost of an upgraded crossing would have to be paid as an up-front lump sum.
@@jackx4311 That and they are looking for excuses to shut down services .. a big push to reopen Thornhill station pretty well meeting deaf ears.
As the system got chopped up, the various enterprises involved cut a slice out of the pie for profit, and by that time what is left, is minimal and barely covered absolute necessities..
Ironically the old Paddy line from Dumfries to Stranraer joined the mainline just south of there at Hollywood and was cut by Bechum's short-sighted destruction of the UK rail Net..
@@jackx4311 Doesn't explain why Denmark hasn't had manned gates for decades, while Britain still has them.
The plan for 2023 was the upgrading of the entire 115-mile route - to be controlled and monitored from Glasgow.@@jackx4311
Why not do away with the gates and just have warning lights as there seems to be little road traffic?
last set of gates like that in australia got smashed to bit's by a runaway train a couple years ago
That's sad. Hopefully we won't have a repeat at Holywood.
@@schoolshorts If you wanna read the report on the accident look up Collision of passenger train 8185 with level crossing gates, Lydiard Street North, Ballarat, Victoria, on 30 May 2020
@@hellblazer275 Thank you - I will do.
As of 26/04/2024 the gates have been repaired and repainted. Looking grand now. The temporary speed restriction still remains..
Thanks for the information - I must get down there and film them.
And how much is it costing the rail services to keep someone there 24/7 365 days a year to operate those gates?
While I’m an ex NYCTA employee who supports unions and hate to see anyone lose a job…
I think electronic gates that at least can keep traffic ( if there is any…we did see a tractor) able to cross and only drop when rail traffic comes through would be a lot more cost effective….very strange but was fun watching….lol Enjoyed your post. 👍🏻🍻😎
Thank you. From an economics point of view you are, of course, correct - and that's why the modernisation of the entire route was planned for 2023. Ten signal boxes (presumably 30 signalmen if 24-hour coverage is required) would have been replaced by one man and a computer in Glasgow - well, O.K. - 3 men! Speaking as a film-maker, the old ways are far more picturesque (or would be if properly maintained) and I would hate to see them go.
@@schoolshorts
I totally agree with you about it being more quaint and picturesque. It’s also a reminder of bygone days….
Unfortunately, in these times, it’s the bean counters that matter most. And being a dinosaur myself, do the youths of a more modern time, look upon these little pieces of history with the same nostalgia that us dinosaurs do. As a filmmaker, I have to believe your perspective is different than most. I find it’s fascinating that here in the States, groups of history buffs are buying up some rural railway lines and equipment to offer tourists and people that are interested in these things a chance to enjoy those bygone days.
Again, it was a pleasure to watch your video. 👍🏻🍻😎
Wonderful video!
Thank you - glad you enjoyed it. Best wishes.
Interesting!
Thank you.
Shouldn’t have closed the area buildings and plant works departments, ours used to renew the gates on my patch and refurbish the gate stop boxes to blueprint allowing us in S&T minor works to keep the maintenance teams happy
I think we're just something of a forgotten backwater. The GSWR route is so quiet these days that the powers-that-be don't rate us very highly.
And people wonder why I laugh when they tell me they think it would be easy to have driverless trains. Ancient victorian infrastructure.
.... and a great deal of it along this route.
Gates blocking the tracks when no train is due. Ain't that making things potentially much worse in case of malfunction?
The signals will never be cleared until the gates are closed to road traffic. The whole set-up is manually operated so, unlike an automatic half-barrier, a mechanical failure doesn't pose such a risk.
They wouldn't malfunction since they are manually operated from in the control house by a signalman , if they would stop working then the signal man would walk out and move the gates himself and the trains down the line would be kept at red until the line set to green.
A little paint,a brush,good as new.
That would have been true three or four years ago but I think that, structurally, we've got beyond that point.
What a state they're in!
Aren't they just!! Does anyone know of a worse set?
Don't complain too much. NWR may decide to automate the crossing.
I think that's inevitable, eventually.
been through there hundreds of times ..
- - not on the road, surely?
@@schoolshorts yea worked at the estate and years ago used to test motorbikes down the road , when pal worked in the motorbike shop.. Cowhill estate and farms ..did you drive to the end of road
I've walked all that area - much better than driving!!
@@schoolshorts hard on you with several tons of gravel or bales..
I love Brittisch and American Freight Trains !
There's not a lot of freight on this route nowadays. It was an important line in days gone by but I'm afraid its glory days are over. Sad.
Grease and oil… nah, it’s just wet with the rain 🥸🏴🤣
Shows where the money goes
- - - or doesn't go!
@@schoolshorts can't be spent twice
Yes, to areas that have higher risks.
It’s definitely time for the construction of a new crossing (safety gates, rails, signals, lighting, etc).
And where are Network Rail supposed to find the capital to cover it - and how could they justify it when there's so little traffic over the road?
Indeed … lang may yer lum reek! Best wishes from the colonies for 2024!
- - and every good wish to those across the water.
Those gates just symbolise the general decline into chaos of the UK in general…
Not everything in Britain is quite as far gone as the gates at Holywood!!
The country is a complete mess. The roads are an absolute disgrace. I have to weave along the road to try and miss the potholes here in Cheshire.
@@philipread7741You'd feel quite at home here in Dumfriesshire then. The major roads are good but the minor roads are often in a dreadful state.
WOW
Indeed!!!
Or not.
I suppose they have to have a speed limit on case the gates don't open !! 😂😂
No - if the gates don't open, the interlocking mechanism makes it impossible for the signalman to pull off the signal, so the driver knows he has to stop.
The gates are overly complicated overkill especially on a dead end road with very little traffic. One day they won't open and a train will properly scrap them as it goes through. You only need gates that block the road traffic, having them open to block the rail line is really just asking for scrapped gates and scratched trains.
You don't know much about railway signalling, do you? If the gates aren't open, the interlocking mechanism makes it impossible for the signalman to pull off the signal, so the train will stop.
Looks as though some things deemed relegated to the past lack the attention they once commanded,
All a question of £££££, presumably.