@@Noplayster13 She says "Must be horrible" right after. it's not conveyed well because "sucks to be you" is yeah I agree usually used to make light of someone's suffering in a mean way but she was being sympathetic in this case
There's something kinda funny about telling a literal mind reader that you're being sarcastic. "That was sarcasm by the way." "Yes, I know, I heard you screaming the opposite sentiment in your own mind."
Tbh I wished they kept this exchange at the orphanage. I didn't feel like it was that offensive since it was Nashrah being Nashrah and Marina saying stuff about herself that we already knew. I get why it was removed but I'm a little sad that it was
They probably removed it not because of that, but because Marina calls herself Domek’s “cross-dressing son” sarcastically, referring to herself the way she believes her father viewed her, and Miro probably didn’t want to risk that being seen as a genuine self-observation.
Yeah, Miro talked about their reasoning for removing this moment. On the one hand, I find the moment quite effective, because Marina's self-loathing really comes through; but on the other, Miro outright said that it was removed because it would have been taken the wrong way by a good portion of the audience and used as an excuse to misgender her. Hell, plenty of people are already determined to misread Marina's backstory as an excuse to misgender her (claiming that she was groomed, that she didn't have a choice, etc, which the text categorically refutes). That fire doesn't need any more gasoline. That being said, I'm glad that the scene exists and is archived, because I understand it on a fundamental level.
Media literacy is seriously dead, I swear- This is literally the Bridget situation all over again, and I hate it. Just let our trans Queen be happy, god damn it!-
@@michi_941 its not “media literacy is dead” it’s literally just a different way to interpret it, the only line that “refused” it is “it felt natural” (according to my knowledge) which can also be understood in different ways
@@noonelaughed6598 Fellow Human being, even if it's truly just a... Really particular interpretation, then how am I supposed to not take it as a malicious interpretation? I have seen people literally use the same arguments with Bridget's case, unto Marina's story. And not only are those statements incorrect from the beginning, but they don't even remotely work with Marina in the first place! And not only did Miro (The creator) said: 1.- "Marina dosen't have any issues with her gender." (I don't remember if these were the exact same words, but you can search for the Tweet if you don't believe me.) 2.- Removed this scene from the game. (Wow! I wonder why!?) I would like to believe that it's not done with any ill will, but it's very difficult for me to do so when those people are extremely insistent about it.
Idk how she’d be misgendered, Nas’hrah even said she has daddy issues. If the meanest character in the game called her correctly I’m sure everyone else would have too…
Me gustan los matices y dualidad interior de Marina, su madre la hizo vivir como mujer para que tuviera una buena vida y eso nunca le molestó, hasta le gustó vivir así, pero parece odiarse o sentirse culpable, ya sea por ocultar su sexo real al mundo o por ser despreciada por su padre, llamandose a sí misma " hijo travesti" con cierto desprecio. Y aún odiando a Domek, ella se siente afectada por su muerte, pero trata de negarlo como si en el fondo le doliera aceptar que quería y necesitaba afecto de él a pesar de ser una horrible persona, el tipico pensamiento de: "¿ Y si hubiera sido diferente ? ¿ y si me hubiera amado como un buen padre?" amor que nunca tuvo ni tendrá. Me encanta este personaje por esto y muchas otras cosas que tiene, el mejor personaje a mi parecer y mi favorito, gracias por subir este video ❤
I feel like her dad actually cared for her deep, deep down because he decided to address her by her proper gender in his final breath and his whole excuse for writing that message was to have her stay away from the town Prehevil.
@@GameLover45408true, there should be a scene where Marina cries about this and you can comfort her, giving her that male love that she never experienced
A mi me gusto su ending, se fue al distrito rojo y vivio una vida muy glamurosa, es como que dijo "estoy harta de los dioses y el ocultismo bla bla bla, quiero ser feliz y vivir mi vida!"
@@alexurena9424 y trabaja como ocultista jajaja. El final B, me dio cierto escalofrió pues vive una vida despreocupada después de haber asesinado a los demás de maneras aberrantes.
I don't understand why in 200 years the Dark Priest organization would grew so sexist when in Enki's intro his twin sister was training to become one. It is never explained so we are to assume either it was forgotten or there are different brands of Dark Priests and the ones in Prehevil of all places are sexists.
It could potentially be that the general conservative minds in prehevil mixed within the religion, creating a sort of new more sexist fusion of the religion in prehevil
It's less that Women are banned from being Dark Priests as much as they're not obligated to become ones. Similar to how there can be female soldiers but they can't be drafted like men are. Enki's family seemed to be entirely isolated from other Dark Priests since none of them care if Enki burns them all alive. So it's likely an instance of a single family's standards being different from other Dark Priests.
@@FatrickAteman I found it weird that is never mentioned again, Marina is even referred as occultist instead of Dark Priest despite following a almost identical brand of study in the Vatican
Like others mentioned, it’s simply a tradition that the firstborn son has to be a priest. Second born sons or daughters get the option, 1st borns do not. No real sexism here (unless you count it as being sexist against males, which I doubt you do.) Best not make accusations of sexism or racism casually. Doing so has resulted in that accusation becoming tiresome and easily ignorable. Frivolous overuse of anything will result in a ‘Boy who cried wolf’ effect.
@@Noplayster13 I am not? And wtf? It is a just a game. Marina is a first born, just as Enki and his sister, the tradition says that first born must become Dark Priests , which is why Enki and his twin sister fought to death, this wouldn't be a thing If women were not allowed since she would have been discarded by default. Marina, however, was born as a boy and in order to save her from such fate, her mother made her pass as a girl newborn (It is unknown whether the Domek was aware of this from the beginning but he knew she was a boy). It seems forced that the New Lore stablishes only the men firstborn can become Dark Priests and it is because of it that Marina was spared. It means that somehow, Enki's order of Dark Priests 300 years ago was more progressive than the modern Dark Priest institution.
On one hand I get that Miro cut this because of Marina calling herself sarcastically a ‘crossdressing son,’ which makes her seem like Angela from Sleepaway Camp. But on the other hand I’m sad that the second dialogue option was cut because it reveals Marina is antinatalist! She is such a cool character.
Yea god, it's so easy to see her being sarcastic about her own circumstances not unlike someone reclaiming a slur directed at them, or as a form of self-deprication in a moment of weakness. But taking it at face value is simply ignorant, considering her intro proves she feels comfortable with her identity as a girl/woman and that noone else except for Domek misgenders her. Or at least to my knowledge. Even Nas'hrah still calls her a lass the moment he learns of her identity.
The fact that Nashrah couldn't tell that Marina was hiding an anaconda underneath that skirt is kinda hilariously ironic, bro can effortlessly kill new gods but can't see through some thin cloth.
From what I gather from the comments, Miro has removed these explainations to avoid people misgendering Marina. To avoid "that" kind of interpretation. But by removing those scenes from the game, doesn't it open a path to interprete Marina just as biological woman with daddy issues?
When you actually play the game, there is no question what her biological sex is. It’s made clear through her character history at the start of the game that she was born male, raised female by the mother (father was told she was a girl, we aren’t directly told if he knew this was untrue during the character history creation but he certainly finds out at some undisclosed point) so Marina can avoid certainly becoming a Dark Priest, and that being raised this way felt natural to Marina even as she grew older. Removing this scene was largely just to prevent bad actors from misinterpreting Marina sarcastically referring to herself as Domek’s “cross-dressing son,” mimicking how she believed her father perceived her, as a genuine self-observation. Her transness (or her being “groomed” to be transsexual if one is feeling particularly unintelligent) is still canonized because of her character history. There’s no room for any other interpretation even without this scene; she was born a biological male.
@@ClareAmel thanks for explanation. What's unintelligent about the grooming? I am not into that interpretation but I didn't find much solid counter-evidence anywhere besides "Miro doesn't like it". I haven't played the Termina myself though.
@@Tk-mj1cl Admittedly me saying it’s unintelligent was my bias seeping through. However, I think it’s unintelligent because in my opinion, what would have been _actual_ grooming would be if she never got to live as a woman and was damned to become a Dark Priest like the first-born males of her lineage before her. What makes me see that hypothetical fate as grooming versus her being transsexual is two-fold: Firstly, she does not want to be a dark priest. She makes that fervently clear in the story. If she had been raised “male,” he would have been groomed into submitting himself to the Old Gods as a Dark Priest against his wishes. Secondly, she states that being raised as a daughter and presenting feminine felt “natural” to her. One could argue that it only felt “natural” because she was “groomed” into it, but (unfortunately) we have real-world evidence that this isn’t actually possible, or at the very least incredibly unlikely. Google David Reimer. Reimer was a biological male who was raised as a daughter due to a botched circumcision mutilating his genitalia. His testes were removed and his genitals were replaced with a vulva. Despite this physical reassignment (which mind you due to the absence of the testes meant he could not experience a traditional male puberty, therefore it’s not like a male puberty signaled to him something was off) and being raised as a daughter, he reported feeling like he was a boy as early as nine years old. This sexual reassignment experiment, conducted by psychologist John Money, eventually was called off when Reimer was about fourteen. He went on to undergo treatment to recover from this entire episode, including testosterone injections, breast removal, and a phalloplasty. The obviously unethical experiment conducted on Reimer suggests that even if you groom a child from the very beginning of their life, even anatomically, to be the opposite gender, they will eventually realize something is amiss. I didn’t mention what I interpret as sexual abuse that occurred during the experiment as well as Reimer unfortunately taking his own life over twenty years later due to a myriad of factors (divorce, brother’s death, poor relationship with parents, financial situation, etc), but they aren’t relevant to the overarching point: you can’t groom a child into being a gender they know they are not, even with measures as dramatic as sexual reassignment during infancy. As far as we know, Marina doesn’t undergo a transition remotely as drastic as Reimer’s. It was just “cross-dressing” and being raised with feminine etiquette. And despite those less-drastic measures, Marina still legitimately felt more comfortable as a woman than a man according to her, which makes me not see her situation as grooming particularly compared to what would’ve happened if she had been raised male instead. On top of that, her mother by all accounts is described lovingly. Marina mourns her mother’s death, and we’re told her mother encouraged all of Marina’s pursuits while her father did not; that’s not the behavior of a groomer in my opinion. Sorry for the lengthy reply, just wanted to explain why I strongly disagree with calling her situation grooming with real-world evidence as well as in-game evidence.
1:19 respect for making light out of her fucked up past. I normally don't even use proper pronouns but she's chill I liked her character maybe related to Enki or at least heard of him and learned
@@bzking24 actually now that i remember (no idea why i didnt remember when i first read this) but i DID pull a baddie when i was super depressed. (like i was so depressed when i rewatch videos i recorded back then i genuinely wonder how friends tolerated me, it was so cringe. like i was an abbsolute energy-vampire.) but i moved away and we never contacted through social media so yeah. she was really cool.
@@adbyujk7503 no, she was born male but raised as a girl so she wouldn’t be forced to become a dark priest by her father, and as an adult decided to continue life as a woman because she has no crisis with her gender, so that basically means she’s a transsexual
"Sucks to be you"
Damn, of every multiverse of this game, levi will always be cooked
Tough words on a battle royal event 💀
Marina’s personality is pretty annoying.
“Oh, my father abused you and turned you into a child soldier? Sucks to be you, LOL!”
@@Noplayster13 She says "Must be horrible" right after. it's not conveyed well because "sucks to be you" is yeah I agree usually used to make light of someone's suffering in a mean way but she was being sympathetic in this case
@@Absolutego98 Yeah, maybe it’s a localization error, but damn did that come across as cold.
All of these accounts are damn old
"Daddy issues"
-Nas'hrah
There's something kinda funny about telling a literal mind reader that you're being sarcastic.
"That was sarcasm by the way."
"Yes, I know, I heard you screaming the opposite sentiment in your own mind."
Tbh I wished they kept this exchange at the orphanage. I didn't feel like it was that offensive since it was Nashrah being Nashrah and Marina saying stuff about herself that we already knew. I get why it was removed but I'm a little sad that it was
Mad respect to Nashrah for continuing to call her a girl tho ✊
@@zeeveestudioshe's an evil wizard not a monster after all
They probably removed it not because of that, but because Marina calls herself Domek’s “cross-dressing son” sarcastically, referring to herself the way she believes her father viewed her, and Miro probably didn’t want to risk that being seen as a genuine self-observation.
@@Vlaffffy "Without reason, he used to sodomize everyone who stood in his way... That is how he desired to spend his days" Seems like a monster to me.
Yeah, Miro talked about their reasoning for removing this moment. On the one hand, I find the moment quite effective, because Marina's self-loathing really comes through; but on the other, Miro outright said that it was removed because it would have been taken the wrong way by a good portion of the audience and used as an excuse to misgender her. Hell, plenty of people are already determined to misread Marina's backstory as an excuse to misgender her (claiming that she was groomed, that she didn't have a choice, etc, which the text categorically refutes). That fire doesn't need any more gasoline.
That being said, I'm glad that the scene exists and is archived, because I understand it on a fundamental level.
Media literacy is seriously dead, I swear-
This is literally the Bridget situation all over again, and I hate it.
Just let our trans Queen be happy, god damn it!-
@@michi_941 its not “media literacy is dead” it’s literally just a different way to interpret it, the only line that “refused” it is “it felt natural” (according to my knowledge) which can also be understood in different ways
@@noonelaughed6598 Fellow Human being, even if it's truly just a... Really particular interpretation, then how am I supposed to not take it as a malicious interpretation?
I have seen people literally use the same arguments with Bridget's case, unto Marina's story.
And not only are those statements incorrect from the beginning, but they don't even remotely work with Marina in the first place!
And not only did Miro (The creator) said: 1.- "Marina dosen't have any issues with her gender." (I don't remember if these were the exact same words, but you can search for the Tweet if you don't believe me.)
2.- Removed this scene from the game. (Wow! I wonder why!?)
I would like to believe that it's not done with any ill will, but it's very difficult for me to do so when those people are extremely insistent about it.
Nobody cares if she is trans, you’re just trying to be a victim.
Idk how she’d be misgendered, Nas’hrah even said she has daddy issues. If the meanest character in the game called her correctly I’m sure everyone else would have too…
Me gustan los matices y dualidad interior de Marina, su madre la hizo vivir como mujer para que tuviera una buena vida y eso nunca le molestó, hasta le gustó vivir así, pero parece odiarse o sentirse culpable, ya sea por ocultar su sexo real al mundo o por ser despreciada por su padre, llamandose a sí misma " hijo travesti" con cierto desprecio.
Y aún odiando a Domek, ella se siente afectada por su muerte, pero trata de negarlo como si en el fondo le doliera aceptar que quería y necesitaba afecto de él a pesar de ser una horrible persona, el tipico pensamiento de: "¿ Y si hubiera sido diferente ? ¿ y si me hubiera amado como un buen padre?" amor que nunca tuvo ni tendrá.
Me encanta este personaje por esto y muchas otras cosas que tiene, el mejor personaje a mi parecer y mi favorito, gracias por subir este video ❤
I feel like her dad actually cared for her deep, deep down because he decided to address her by her proper gender in his final breath and his whole excuse for writing that message was to have her stay away from the town Prehevil.
@@GameLover45408true, there should be a scene where Marina cries about this and you can comfort her, giving her that male love that she never experienced
A mi me gusto su ending, se fue al distrito rojo y vivio una vida muy glamurosa, es como que dijo "estoy harta de los dioses y el ocultismo bla bla bla, quiero ser feliz y vivir mi vida!"
@@GameLover45408would have loved to see a wholesome interaction and chances of redemption, but you know, samarie...
@@alexurena9424 y trabaja como ocultista jajaja. El final B, me dio cierto escalofrió pues vive una vida despreocupada después de haber asesinado a los demás de maneras aberrantes.
what did nas'hrah mean by 'had to gag on father milk' lmao
Yo tampoco lo entiendo
I think it’s implying that her father “did things” to her
@@wonderedrouge osea, cosas malas?
@@wonderedrouge Correct.
I expected people that play fear and hunger to be less pure but I'm glad I was wrong
I don't understand why in 200 years the Dark Priest organization would grew so sexist when in Enki's intro his twin sister was training to become one.
It is never explained so we are to assume either it was forgotten or there are different brands of Dark Priests and the ones in Prehevil of all places are sexists.
It could potentially be that the general conservative minds in prehevil mixed within the religion, creating a sort of new more sexist fusion of the religion in prehevil
It's less that Women are banned from being Dark Priests as much as they're not obligated to become ones. Similar to how there can be female soldiers but they can't be drafted like men are. Enki's family seemed to be entirely isolated from other Dark Priests since none of them care if Enki burns them all alive. So it's likely an instance of a single family's standards being different from other Dark Priests.
@@FatrickAteman I found it weird that is never mentioned again, Marina is even referred as occultist instead of Dark Priest despite following a almost identical brand of study in the Vatican
Like others mentioned, it’s simply a tradition that the firstborn son has to be a priest. Second born sons or daughters get the option, 1st borns do not. No real sexism here (unless you count it as being sexist against males, which I doubt you do.)
Best not make accusations of sexism or racism casually. Doing so has resulted in that accusation becoming tiresome and easily ignorable.
Frivolous overuse of anything will result in a ‘Boy who cried wolf’ effect.
@@Noplayster13 I am not? And wtf? It is a just a game.
Marina is a first born, just as Enki and his sister, the tradition says that first born must become Dark Priests , which is why Enki and his twin sister fought to death, this wouldn't be a thing If women were not allowed since she would have been discarded by default.
Marina, however, was born as a boy and in order to save her from such fate, her mother made her pass as a girl newborn (It is unknown whether the Domek was aware of this from the beginning but he knew she was a boy).
It seems forced that the New Lore stablishes only the men firstborn can become Dark Priests and it is because of it that Marina was spared. It means that somehow, Enki's order of Dark Priests 300 years ago was more progressive than the modern Dark Priest institution.
On one hand I get that Miro cut this because of Marina calling herself sarcastically a ‘crossdressing son,’ which makes her seem like Angela from Sleepaway Camp. But on the other hand I’m sad that the second dialogue option was cut because it reveals Marina is antinatalist! She is such a cool character.
antinatalism is reddit as fuck
@@archol6596 That subreddit is a dumpsterfire fuck that!
I understand why Marina said this , but holy shit people are misgendering her in the comment section of the video like good god thank you Miro
Yea the kinda thing probably best left archived away somewhere on youtube. People are not normal about this sort of thing
Yea god, it's so easy to see her being sarcastic about her own circumstances not unlike someone reclaiming a slur directed at them, or as a form of self-deprication in a moment of weakness. But taking it at face value is simply ignorant, considering her intro proves she feels comfortable with her identity as a girl/woman and that noone else except for Domek misgenders her. Or at least to my knowledge. Even Nas'hrah still calls her a lass the moment he learns of her identity.
i don’t mean to be that guy but are you piling up all of nashrah whispers?
The fact that Nashrah couldn't tell that Marina was hiding an anaconda underneath that skirt is kinda hilariously ironic, bro can effortlessly kill new gods but can't see through some thin cloth.
she's a tucking queen probably
Calm down weird chaser
@@Bambrise ?
@@FemboyMakeMeHappy "femboy make me happy" as a pseudo and being obsessed with trans girl genitals is chaser behavior
Gro'goroth cooked him so hard he's now semi blind.
From what I gather from the comments, Miro has removed these explainations to avoid people misgendering Marina. To avoid "that" kind of interpretation.
But by removing those scenes from the game, doesn't it open a path to interprete Marina just as biological woman with daddy issues?
that'd prolly require a lot of rewriting for marina.
When you actually play the game, there is no question what her biological sex is. It’s made clear through her character history at the start of the game that she was born male, raised female by the mother (father was told she was a girl, we aren’t directly told if he knew this was untrue during the character history creation but he certainly finds out at some undisclosed point) so Marina can avoid certainly becoming a Dark Priest, and that being raised this way felt natural to Marina even as she grew older.
Removing this scene was largely just to prevent bad actors from misinterpreting Marina sarcastically referring to herself as Domek’s “cross-dressing son,” mimicking how she believed her father perceived her, as a genuine self-observation. Her transness (or her being “groomed” to be transsexual if one is feeling particularly unintelligent) is still canonized because of her character history. There’s no room for any other interpretation even without this scene; she was born a biological male.
@@ClareAmel thanks for explanation. What's unintelligent about the grooming? I am not into that interpretation but I didn't find much solid counter-evidence anywhere besides "Miro doesn't like it". I haven't played the Termina myself though.
@@Tk-mj1cl Admittedly me saying it’s unintelligent was my bias seeping through. However, I think it’s unintelligent because in my opinion, what would have been _actual_ grooming would be if she never got to live as a woman and was damned to become a Dark Priest like the first-born males of her lineage before her. What makes me see that hypothetical fate as grooming versus her being transsexual is two-fold:
Firstly, she does not want to be a dark priest. She makes that fervently clear in the story. If she had been raised “male,” he would have been groomed into submitting himself to the Old Gods as a Dark Priest against his wishes.
Secondly, she states that being raised as a daughter and presenting feminine felt “natural” to her. One could argue that it only felt “natural” because she was “groomed” into it, but (unfortunately) we have real-world evidence that this isn’t actually possible, or at the very least incredibly unlikely. Google David Reimer. Reimer was a biological male who was raised as a daughter due to a botched circumcision mutilating his genitalia. His testes were removed and his genitals were replaced with a vulva. Despite this physical reassignment (which mind you due to the absence of the testes meant he could not experience a traditional male puberty, therefore it’s not like a male puberty signaled to him something was off) and being raised as a daughter, he reported feeling like he was a boy as early as nine years old. This sexual reassignment experiment, conducted by psychologist John Money, eventually was called off when Reimer was about fourteen. He went on to undergo treatment to recover from this entire episode, including testosterone injections, breast removal, and a phalloplasty.
The obviously unethical experiment conducted on Reimer suggests that even if you groom a child from the very beginning of their life, even anatomically, to be the opposite gender, they will eventually realize something is amiss. I didn’t mention what I interpret as sexual abuse that occurred during the experiment as well as Reimer unfortunately taking his own life over twenty years later due to a myriad of factors (divorce, brother’s death, poor relationship with parents, financial situation, etc), but they aren’t relevant to the overarching point: you can’t groom a child into being a gender they know they are not, even with measures as dramatic as sexual reassignment during infancy.
As far as we know, Marina doesn’t undergo a transition remotely as drastic as Reimer’s. It was just “cross-dressing” and being raised with feminine etiquette. And despite those less-drastic measures, Marina still legitimately felt more comfortable as a woman than a man according to her, which makes me not see her situation as grooming particularly compared to what would’ve happened if she had been raised male instead. On top of that, her mother by all accounts is described lovingly. Marina mourns her mother’s death, and we’re told her mother encouraged all of Marina’s pursuits while her father did not; that’s not the behavior of a groomer in my opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, just wanted to explain why I strongly disagree with calling her situation grooming with real-world evidence as well as in-game evidence.
@@ClareAmel No need to apologize. I wanted a thorough answer)
What mod is adding the portraits in when people talk?
1:19 respect for making light out of her fucked up past. I normally don't even use proper pronouns but she's chill I liked her character maybe related to Enki or at least heard of him and learned
Enki could have left descendants but it is very unlikely that Marina would be one of them if they even were a thing
To imply that any woman would even come NEAR Enki is an outrageous statement.
@@TheONLYFeli0 maybe a big tt goth girl fucked with his vibe lmao
@@bzking24 you might be right ngl
@@bzking24 actually now that i remember (no idea why i didnt remember when i first read this) but i DID pull a baddie when i was super depressed. (like i was so depressed when i rewatch videos i recorded back then i genuinely wonder how friends tolerated me, it was so cringe. like i was an abbsolute energy-vampire.)
but i moved away and we never contacted through social media so yeah. she was really cool.
1:27 he just like me fr
Femboy Judge Holden
*she
Transphobia is too edgy for fear and hunger 😂
u say that like the father isnt transphobic, or what, do u want the charactrs to be edgelord losers ?
@@7tlas818 Groomed.
@@7tlas818 The dev basically cut the content because he feared people would accuse him of transphobia.
@@Awesomeisme7000 ???????????????
@@harunocaleon5786didn't he cut it specifically so that the fans don't use it as an excuse to misgender Marina?
Marina is a bad boy.
A baddie
girl*
@@Baddiejoker lmao baddie joker
So its a he?
No it's optimistic prime
miro removed this scene because he didn’t want people to think that marina wanted to be a boy, so no
@@sha4522 isnt it a boy dressing as a woman?
@@adbyujk7503 no, she was born male but raised as a girl so she wouldn’t be forced to become a dark priest by her father, and as an adult decided to continue life as a woman because she has no crisis with her gender, so that basically means she’s a transsexual
@@sha4522 yeah so its a man anyway