This is even better because your labels are runtime values, so you can compute goto destinations at runtime via string interpolation or such, making it even more readable.
Also, you can have multiple labels with the same name, meaning the same goto call will jump to different labels depending in which block the goto is (since you do a linear search through the list), increasing maintainability.
GNU C extensions have runtime-evaluated labels. But GNU C is mostly heresy (despite being actual better version of C, not like C++), so be carefull and put ifdef __GNUC__ everywhere.
@@FastNotSave A goto call should always jump to the same instance of a label (the first one in the list) as it iterates through all blocks from the beginning, not from where it was called.
@@samgiz it would be a trivial change to make the iteration looking for next label start from the previous block being executed (and loop back to start again if not found on rest of list), in which case you really could have multiple identical labels, as the guy with headphones wrote, drastically increasing maintainability and code scanability
I though he was going to implement full blown call/cc , or import setjmp/longjmp , but a try/catch is essentially that, setjmp/longjmp. Use this knowledge with care.
I recently installed OCaml to get some project that someone else wrote to compile so I could use it. I learned a little bit of ML like 20 years ago and knew Caml and OCaml existed, but never used them. Your video hasn't changed my mind on goto, but it has changed my mind about even getting into OCaml.
Holy moly! I last watched your videos 2 years ago, and there were so much ”more” of you then. Nice! Looking good. Your content is still top notch as usual.
19:10 You have optional arguments with default values. E.g. `let goto_block ?(name = None) ...` and call it `goto_block ~name:(Some "foo")`. Mutual recursion is possible by chaining the function definitions with `let rec foo = ... and bar = ...`.
beautiful control flow, I didn't ever wonder before if goto could be implemented in any language teachers only resort to saying that goto is garbage but you come up with this beauty of state machine
I think that function used as an intermediate step, to control where to "jump" execution, is usually called a "trampoline". I've seen it used similarly to implement things like tail call optimization in languages that don't have it, like Javascript XD. Which seems like a completely different thing at first sight, but it¡s actually related. Tail calls behave as a jump or goto, and that's why they can be eliminated in the first place.
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. That was the comment I would put while watching the first part of the video. I changed my mind when the irony and meming ended. I gotta say that this is the best video you uploaded in a while in my books. The former Tsoding (the real chad imo) would be proud of you.
Your approach of skipping blocks that shouldn't be executed reminded me of the same approach being used to implement loops in "M/o/Vfuscator", a C compiler that generates only mov instructions.
I see one possible improvement and two problems. If you change line 16 to also [] -> throw Goto entry than you have even some kind of interfunction jumps. The problem that arises from that is what happens if you try to jump a Label that is not defined and what if the user catches or throws Gotos themselves. But the bigger problem I see with this approach is to have the jumps being calculated at runtime. That kind of violates the advantage of goto in my eyes because of the huge Overhead beeing generated. But I am no programmer and don't have any education in this field! But I love your unique apoaches to everything you do. Keep on comming up with such interesting ideas. I hope you can keep making content and wish you the best of luck.
I tried to do it myself before watching. I defined a binding operator that does the try-with, but you can't jump forward this way (I'm still hacking it I have some ideas). Also I think it can be done by defining labels as mutually recursive functions that tail-call each other. My half working solution looks like that : let* loop = make_label () in goto loop; goto exit; (* Doesn't work since exit is not defined *) let* exit = make_label () in ...
I learned some lua for configuring neovim recently and was surprised to discover that in lua 5.2 they actually added goto to the language. Does that make lua the chad-est dynamic language now? Kind of ironic since they don't even know the only true correct number to start counting from, but then again, would a true chad care about that?
coming from c#, isn't there a conditional catch? you could divide the blocks in multiple catches each one for a label, and then throwing you owuld go in that 'case', like a sort of switch
I love your content mate. This is one of the few channels that provides based HQ content for C chads. Nowadays, the majority of YT tech. content creators 're making garbage for JS soydevs: ""x Is A gAmE cHaNgEr!" "sToP uSiNg y! uSe ThIs wheelReinvented.js nOdE pAcKaGe InStEaD!"
I've noticed that you always use Emacs for your workflow, btw superfast. My question: do you use it cause is really highly efficient in comparison to others modern IDEor text editors. I'm aware that this is a controversial area, but as an amateur programmer, is very confusing and I'd like to know professional opinions. Many, nowadays, are commenting that VScode is the replacement of Emacs. Do you agree? Emacs is obviously more powerful but young generations are not sticking to Emacs community. Thanks for any insight
"Today i woke up and chose the violence" and that's the story of how i subscribed and that was before the "double dick operator" which is a beautiful name and an excellent way to ensure nobody ever forgets it lol
I have a hard time understanding tsoding's sarcasm. Most things just whoosh by me. Are people scared of for loops? Do students use recursive? What is soycaml? ~$ man tsoding-jokes
Language which does not have a goto is a crappy compilation target - and, therefore, a crappy metalanguage. You cannot compile parsers efficiently, for example, if you don't have a decently fast goto.
If you install utop you can run OCaml REPL inside Emacs using C-c C-e to eval function and C-c C-b to eval buffer just like emacs lisp. Makes developing much easier.
Rust was initially implemented in ocaml, and it takes several details from ocaml including a lot of it's naming, but it deliberately draws from a lot of different types of languages.
call/cc preserves the execution context, it saves the state of the stack, no? This is a trampoline, it behaves similarly, but without preserving the state of the program, it only jumps to where it's told.
This is even better because your labels are runtime values, so you can compute goto destinations at runtime via string interpolation or such, making it even more readable.
Also, you can have multiple labels with the same name, meaning the same goto call will jump to different labels depending in which block the goto is (since you do a linear search through the list), increasing maintainability.
GNU C extensions have runtime-evaluated labels. But GNU C is mostly heresy (despite being actual better version of C, not like C++), so be carefull and put ifdef __GNUC__ everywhere.
@@FastNotSave A goto call should always jump to the same instance of a label (the first one in the list) as it iterates through all blocks from the beginning, not from where it was called.
@@samgiz that is correct, my bad. The code was so readable that I got confused.
@@samgiz it would be a trivial change to make the iteration looking for next label start from the previous block being executed (and loop back to start again if not found on rest of list), in which case you really could have multiple identical labels, as the guy with headphones wrote, drastically increasing maintainability and code scanability
I started to doubt it some weeks ago, but now I'm sure. His villain arc has started.
Compsoy: recursion
Compchad: recursion in a try catch
10/10 video
I though he was going to implement full blown call/cc , or import setjmp/longjmp , but a try/catch is essentially that, setjmp/longjmp. Use this knowledge with care.
10/10 comment, i managed to segfault in Python
wtf?? its not letting me reply to another comment
dude you've reached pure programming god tier by now
ocaml isn't pure
@@ribosomerocker 🤓
@@__gadonk__ 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
@@ribosomerocker what man has made filthy, a god makes pure
He got so pure he overflowed.
I recently installed OCaml to get some project that someone else wrote to compile so I could use it. I learned a little bit of ML like 20 years ago and knew Caml and OCaml existed, but never used them. Your video hasn't changed my mind on goto, but it has changed my mind about even getting into OCaml.
Senior Dev strats: "Let's hallucinate like ChadGPT".
Tsoding has ascended into implementing goto, as recursion syntactic sugar
everything is syntactic sugar
Holy moly! I last watched your videos 2 years ago, and there were so much ”more” of you then. Nice! Looking good. Your content is still top notch as usual.
19:10 You have optional arguments with default values. E.g. `let goto_block ?(name = None) ...` and call it `goto_block ~name:(Some "foo")`. Mutual recursion is possible by chaining the function definitions with `let rec foo = ... and bar = ...`.
beautiful control flow, I didn't ever wonder before if goto could be implemented in any language
teachers only resort to saying that goto is garbage but you come up with this beauty of state machine
Bro you look like stereotypical "Mad Scientist" on the thumbnail :)))))
I think that function used as an intermediate step, to control where to "jump" execution, is usually called a "trampoline".
I've seen it used similarly to implement things like tail call optimization in languages that don't have it, like Javascript XD.
Which seems like a completely different thing at first sight, but it¡s actually related. Tail calls behave as a jump or goto, and that's why they can be eliminated in the first place.
it's over for gotocels
Oh , first time a project shorter than an hour, you're becoming a youtuber🎉🎉
best preview ever made on RUclips
now implement gotos in C like they're not yet implemented
What CompSoy programmers have to do to mimic a fraction of the power of Common Lisp.
great video :)
Why don't you implement a continuation monad with the call/cc function in OCaml? It will allow you implement the `goto` thing more efficiently
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
That was the comment I would put while watching the first part of the video. I changed my mind when the irony and meming ended.
I gotta say that this is the best video you uploaded in a while in my books. The former Tsoding (the real chad imo) would be proud of you.
Siberian Chud
Your approach of skipping blocks that shouldn't be executed reminded me of the same approach being used to implement loops in "M/o/Vfuscator", a C compiler that generates only mov instructions.
Actually I have that whole "lable" vs "label" spelling issue too
theater theatre 🤷🏻♂
millions must ocaml
The best CPS(Continue Passing Style) vedio.
GOTO reminded me of Basic but also MacroB in cnc programming, I'm using it a lot with G-CODE on Swiss lathes..
Beautiful and useful. I love DRY code. Also thanks for the gist so I can just copy-paste that into my projects. Sincerely, thank you. See you in hell.
I love your presentation style :'D
Keep up with your divine mission!
Very gigachad
I see one possible improvement and two problems.
If you change line 16 to also [] -> throw Goto entry than you have even some kind of interfunction jumps.
The problem that arises from that is what happens if you try to jump a Label that is not defined and what if the user catches or throws Gotos themselves.
But the bigger problem I see with this approach is to have the jumps being calculated at runtime. That kind of violates the advantage of goto in my eyes because of the huge Overhead beeing generated.
But I am no programmer and don't have any education in this field!
But I love your unique apoaches to everything you do. Keep on comming up with such interesting ideas.
I hope you can keep making content and wish you the best of luck.
This is true art!
What a villain to admire
chad goto and compsoy LOL will be borrowing those for sure!
CompSoy
as an F# hacker, I approve this message.
Somebody read the Lambda papers.
Algebraic effects are awesome
this is one of the only videos that i actually understood what he was talking about
I tried to do it myself before watching. I defined a binding operator that does the try-with, but you can't jump forward this way (I'm still hacking it I have some ideas).
Also I think it can be done by defining labels as mutually recursive functions that tail-call each other.
My half working solution looks like that :
let* loop = make_label () in
goto loop;
goto exit; (* Doesn't work since exit is not defined *)
let* exit = make_label () in
...
wait, it's all a state machine? always has been~
badass intro
i like compsoy even if i don't know what it means
I learned some lua for configuring neovim recently and was surprised to discover that in lua 5.2 they actually added goto to the language. Does that make lua the chad-est dynamic language now? Kind of ironic since they don't even know the only true correct number to start counting from, but then again, would a true chad care about that?
The tables start at 1
@@replikvltyoutube3727 I know. Real programmers count up from zero ;)
@@dupdrop real programmers count down
Based Lua
@@yjlom so would the first element be index -1 or 0?
hmm, looks like an interesting challenge for me to sneaky commit something like that into our production erlang code
I'm not sure if you bullied Exceptions, functional languages or both here. Either way, I like it.
coming from c#, isn't there a conditional catch? you could divide the blocks in multiple catches each one for a label, and then throwing you owuld go in that 'case', like a sort of switch
no, we don't do that here, we do match, no label jumps from machine code
20:06 shot out to F#'s computational expressions (not to use the compsoy "monadic")
one way to introduce new syntax in a language is to make a preprocessor which converts your new syntax to an implementation in the language
I wouldn't be able to figure out something like that, tsoding is slowly ascending to programmer mage levels
i love you mr. tsoding
todaY wE arE goinG tO enD thE worlD
so lets start with implementing 'hello world'
How is this so close to your old channel type of video and simultaneously the polar opposite of it
This reminds me of the special operator LABELS in Lisp
Very similar to tagbody in common lisp. 👍
I love your content mate. This is one of the few channels that provides based HQ content for C chads. Nowadays, the majority of YT tech. content creators 're making garbage for JS soydevs:
""x Is A gAmE cHaNgEr!"
"sToP uSiNg y! uSe ThIs wheelReinvented.js nOdE pAcKaGe InStEaD!"
@@andrewdunbar828I literally cannot stand Acerola but the video content is always so good. Recommended definitely.
That was fun!
Thank you Tsoding!
Instead of an unconditional "goto loop", it could have been "if !i >= 10 then goto loop", no need for the "out" label, it would be a do-while though.
I've noticed that you always use Emacs for your workflow, btw superfast.
My question: do you use it cause is really highly efficient in comparison to others modern IDEor text editors. I'm aware that this is a controversial area, but as an amateur programmer, is very confusing and I'd like to know professional opinions. Many, nowadays, are commenting that VScode is the replacement of Emacs. Do you agree? Emacs is obviously more powerful but young generations are not sticking to Emacs community. Thanks for any insight
State of the art
SOMEONE TELL TSODING TO STOP SAYING RIGHT EVERY 5 SECONDS I CANT LISTEN TO IT
pure evil
What a madman
conditional jumping would also be easy under this approach!!
Сверхчеловек сверхразум
I think the same thing in Haskell would have been much more beautiful. Goto statements should be implemented in a pure way.
callCC seems like magic--- but your implementation in this stream seems like essentially CPS
Structured programming: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Tom Harding implemented GoTo by using circular reasoning.
"Today i woke up and chose the violence" and that's the story of how i subscribed and that was before the "double dick operator" which is a beautiful name and an excellent way to ensure nobody ever forgets it lol
The thumbnail forced me to watch this 😂
28:51 can your C even do that !
If it compiles, it works !
That was great!!
pog
CompSoy lmao
I am very afraid of mutations, what do I do
this isn't really goto (fully) because you can't have multiple gotos inside one "block". Unless you make redundant copies of chunks of blocks.
You get a like just for that thumbnail 👍
I have a hard time understanding tsoding's sarcasm. Most things just whoosh by me.
Are people scared of for loops?
Do students use recursive?
What is soycaml?
~$ man tsoding-jokes
zig doesn't have a for loop.
@@ea_naseer Yeah it does. It's a weird syntax, but it's there.
нифига у тебя лицо злое на превью.
Мизицем ноги об стол ударился специально для превью.
@@TsodingDaily Мизинцем* bro
"I implemented Goto in OCaml"
Yes, but what for ?
To show you that he can and you cannot!
Language which does not have a goto is a crappy compilation target - and, therefore, a crappy metalanguage. You cannot compile parsers efficiently, for example, if you don't have a decently fast goto.
i love you
If you install utop you can run OCaml REPL inside Emacs using C-c C-e to eval function and C-c C-b to eval buffer just like emacs lisp. Makes developing much easier.
I wouldn't trust a language that hasn't goto. And that hasn't nullptr.
Wait. So Rust is basically a low level ML language!? I just started with Rust and never tried OCaml, but this looks very familiar for some reason...
Rust was initially implemented in ocaml, and it takes several details from ocaml including a lot of it's naming, but it deliberately draws from a lot of different types of languages.
yes.
this reminds me of single-store/assign in LLVM IR type stuff
Why are you scowling like judge dredd
I wonder how it would look lime in a language that supports macros
Ocaml soy? Lmfao
здарова, будут туториалы для начинающих?
something
Good but using if is soy. Computed goto better
Not chad enough Kappa
akshually, functions have namespacing and labels don't so this "goto implementation" has some limitations
P. S. Don't call me 🤓
HOW DARE YOU.
First try
Also maybe doing a video trying to hack it into the compiler might be cool?
Try using CPS for that purpose next time ;)
Sir can I have your neovim config
Pretty sure he mentions he's using Emacs at 6:53
@@ernestodelgato930 yea thanks bro
When AI videos again??
so basic...
im sorry, but you look like "the west has fallen" wojak
Congrats, you rediscovered call/cc
But typed!
call/cc preserves the execution context, it saves the state of the stack, no?
This is a trampoline, it behaves similarly, but without preserving the state of the program, it only jumps to where it's told.
master