Well done for fixing it. Hornbys quality control is very poor at the moment. I’m going to really cut down on new hornby and get Bachman models instead and secondhand hornby
Thanks Oliver. Since I live in the United States, returning things to the UK is a bit cost prohibitive. Not sure why, but sending things to the UK, whether its via the post or DHL, UPS, FedEx, seems to cost several times more than shipping from the UK to the USA. Most retailers require you to eat the cost to return something. So a £35 coach, minus 20% VAT as I'm outside the UK/EU, is going to cost me about £28 or roughly $37. Its going to cost me about $30 to send it back, so in almost every case I am better off just talking to the retailer, who will usually offer some kind of partial refund and I'll go repair the thing. Even on a loco, a new Hornby 61xx large Prairie runs about £138, which is £110.40 without VAT, which is around $148, with insurance its going to cost about $48 to return a loco like that. Most retailers won't hold a replacement for you, so by the time the loco has gone back, checked over, there is no replacement to send. So you end up with a refund, no loco and out the return shipping cost, the whole ordeal takes several weeks and you run the risk it could get lost in the mail. Over the years, I've figured out what the "return cost" is for a retailer, so I usually ask for just below that as a partial refund depending on the damage, and repair it myself. I've started to increase the number of Bachmann models I'm buying since TMC will ship via FedEx, and I've been picking up older Hornby models (2019 and earlier) that are new but unsold stock that you can find internationally and at some smaller shops. I've also started buying more Accurascale, Rapido, Dapol and Heljan as well. Although Heljan's buffer beam detail is quite annoying if you want to run locos!!
@@Oorail I can understand the it’s expensive too return thing’s. Shipping costs have gone crazy in the past year or so. Yes TMC are very good I seen to have more luck with Bachmann models then hornby
@@ollychap1985 Its not just you, Hornby's QC has been pretty bad the past two years or so. I've had about ten times the number of problems with Hornby locos in the past two years than I've had in the past 11 years. Its minor stuff, like you saw with this loco, the tie-bar was upside down. On the W1, it was the side steps not installed right and the screws holding the unflanged wheels were over torqued. The APT NDM had a broken plastic piece due to the weight of the metal assembly it was attached to and how it was packaged. The Clan had a PCB and wires that could short against the metal tender chassis. The A2/3 had broken smoke deflectors due to a design flaw with the packaging (looks like Hornby tested with one type of plastic, and a different type of plastic was used in the packaging that was shipped to customers). Connecting rod screws that were loose and fell out. DVT with a light bleed problem. The APT capacitor issue and the list goes on. The same number of Dapol and Bachmann locos, no issues. Oxford Rail tends to have issues with parts, I've had to put buffers, couplings and bogies back together. Heljan just has that really annoying problem of too much buffer beam detail. Previously Heljan would leave the NEM coupling off the front of the loco, and the buffer beam detail off the rear of the loco (No. 2 end), but recently the buffer beam detail has been glued in place on the Heljan locos. To run the Class 25 in the advent calendar, I had to remove the buffer to get it to pull rolling stock!! In previous years I've been able to open Hornby locos for the advent calendar, run them in and film. This year and last year, I basically was opening and running the locos in several days prior to filming to make sure the locos worked. There were some locos I was planning to run that I couldn't, and are still on my workbench needing fixed. At least it means I have plenty of loco repair material now for 2022 :)
Pity you chose to make an erroneous criticism of the model. Moreover, you don't go on to accept you were wrong in this statement even when you finally do find the remedy. It struck me you just made little snipe at Hornby for what is generally accepted by many as a superb model. Why not just show the remedy with out your snide comments about build quality that every company has issues with, not just Hornby? Still a simple fix. Thank you.
What on earth are you talking about? The tender was sticking up in the air because the tie-rod connecting the tender to the loco was installed upside down at the factory. It derailed on Hornby's own curved points because the back-to-back on the front bogie was incorrect. What exactly was the error? I initially thought the screw on the tie-rod was just on too tight, that partially fixed the problem but it turned out it was installed upside down? The video walks you through the troubleshooting process and shows you the simple fix! The whole point of the video was to help anyone who runs into the same problem to fix their loco easily, instead of the usual sending it back. As for my build quality comments, well when you open 24+ new Hornby locos over the course of a month and a quarter of them have the same basic QC problems out of the box, that prevent them from working, you might not be exactly too thrilled about it either. Especially when you bought the locos yourself. We are talking about parts installed upside down, wrong tension on screws, parts that break in the packaging, PCBs / wires shorting against metal parts because they lack insulation. All easy fixes, but in the past these were one-offs here and there, maybe 1 out of 30-40 locos. However we're talking 1 in 4 locos, ordered from different places, including Hornby direct, all having similar issues. Hornby are selling the Dublo range as a premium product, basic QC like upside down parts, wrong tolerances etc, aren't exactly a good impression, neither is having your customers spend an hour troubleshooting to get the thing running properly. To put it in perspective, I opened 12 Bachmann locos, 8 Dapol and 6 Heljan locos over the same period, none of the Bachmann or Dapol locos had a single problem. All 6 Heljan locos had the same "Heljan" problems with too much detail superglued onto both buffers that you couldn't use the NEM couplings to pull things! I've recently picked up some HO locomotives from Broadway Limited, not a single problem. I bought several Irish Railway Models locos and rolling stock (Accurascale's sister company), zero problems, so it can definitely be done. I don't think we should be giving companies a free pass who don't have their act together, especially when they are upping the prices.
You intially stated the reason for the problem was that " The loco is simply too heavy... and the tender is too light." That was wrong. Later you found the problem to be that the drawbar was put in the wrong way round. Simple. All you had to do was say that you were wrong in your first assumption but instead you let that statement stand. I agree you shouldn't give manufacturers a free pass and you should point out deficiencies when you see them. I appreciate you have had better results from other companies but that does not mean they are are free from quailty issues. Hornby certainly do have QC issues and have had for some time. I am sure they are concious of them and trying to rectify them. However making the statement about the loco being too heavy and the tender too light you were implying a faulty design issue. I am pointing out that as it stands I perceived it as being an unjust that you didn't recind your intial remark when you found out the real cause for the lifting tender. I think that would have been fair instead it comes across as a snipe. @@Oorail
@@lindsaywood1101 I never said the problem was that the loco is simply too heavy and the tender is too light. I was stating and demonstrating a fact as I troubleshooted the problem. The loco is a full metal diecast loco, and the tender is about 25g lighter than the one that comes with the Clan Class locos. General Steam Navigation weighs almost 500g without the tender. If you listen at 0:55 immediately after I said that, I stated that I thought the problem was the tie-bar applying too much pressure. However, on a standard non-Dublo loco, you wouldn't have that problem because the weight difference between the loco and tender isn't that drastic. The tie-bar on non-Dublo Hornby steam locos also is straight. You are correct though, the weight of the tender is possibly a faulty design issue, to get around it, rather than providing a better tender, they've used an angled tie-bar between the loco and the tender. This uses the weight of the loco to push the "light" tender down towards the track. Its a clever work around, but its just that, a work around to cut down on the costs. I mention this at the end of the video when I explain the tie-bar being installed upside down. Obviously from the video you can see if this is installed incorrectly it has a comical result with the tender sticking in the air. So the weight difference between the tender and the loco is a key part of the problem. So you would think that a key design requirement would be carefully monitored as part of the QC process? I don't think this was the first or the last Dublo loco that has this problem. Its obvious its a cost-savings design approach Hornby have taken. The video not only helps Hornby improve their QC process, but it will probably save them some money in the long run as its a simple fix, that not all of their customers are going to go to the bother to diagnose by themselves before returning it to the shop. Hornby are definitely aware of the problems, and Simon Kohler has been great passing along the various design issues and fixes to their engineering team. They have a process problem, probably due to rapid growth and having a small UK based team managing the whole thing. That said, Bachmann also have a small UK team managing the whole thing, and I literately can't remember the last time I had a problem with a new Bachmann locomotive in the past few years. I think its important to point out these issues. In the past, RUclips was great for getting an honest opinion about model railway products because people were putting their own money on the line. So you had people buying things they were interested in with their own money, you got a fully honest review. These days most of them are no better than the magazines. They are getting free samples, early review models and have their income tied to more positive reviews because they don't want the manufacturers to stop supplying them. You are far more objective when its your own cash thats on the line. I think a lot of the QC problems we are seeing out of Hornby is a result of them feeling like they can "get away with it" because of their marketing influence and reach. Now I am all about being fair, but so far, I haven't been convinced that the statement is wrong, the tender is literately 25g lighter than my Clan Class tender, and its a contributing factor given the design of the tie-bar is using the weight of the loco to push the lighter tender down.
Very useful info, cheers 👍
Glad you found it helpful!
Well done for fixing it. Hornbys quality control is very poor at the moment.
I’m going to really cut down on new hornby and get Bachman models instead and secondhand hornby
Thanks Oliver. Since I live in the United States, returning things to the UK is a bit cost prohibitive. Not sure why, but sending things to the UK, whether its via the post or DHL, UPS, FedEx, seems to cost several times more than shipping from the UK to the USA. Most retailers require you to eat the cost to return something. So a £35 coach, minus 20% VAT as I'm outside the UK/EU, is going to cost me about £28 or roughly $37. Its going to cost me about $30 to send it back, so in almost every case I am better off just talking to the retailer, who will usually offer some kind of partial refund and I'll go repair the thing. Even on a loco, a new Hornby 61xx large Prairie runs about £138, which is £110.40 without VAT, which is around $148, with insurance its going to cost about $48 to return a loco like that. Most retailers won't hold a replacement for you, so by the time the loco has gone back, checked over, there is no replacement to send. So you end up with a refund, no loco and out the return shipping cost, the whole ordeal takes several weeks and you run the risk it could get lost in the mail. Over the years, I've figured out what the "return cost" is for a retailer, so I usually ask for just below that as a partial refund depending on the damage, and repair it myself. I've started to increase the number of Bachmann models I'm buying since TMC will ship via FedEx, and I've been picking up older Hornby models (2019 and earlier) that are new but unsold stock that you can find internationally and at some smaller shops. I've also started buying more Accurascale, Rapido, Dapol and Heljan as well. Although Heljan's buffer beam detail is quite annoying if you want to run locos!!
@@Oorail I can understand the it’s expensive too return thing’s. Shipping costs have gone crazy in the past year or so.
Yes TMC are very good
I seen to have more luck with Bachmann models then hornby
@@ollychap1985 Its not just you, Hornby's QC has been pretty bad the past two years or so. I've had about ten times the number of problems with Hornby locos in the past two years than I've had in the past 11 years. Its minor stuff, like you saw with this loco, the tie-bar was upside down. On the W1, it was the side steps not installed right and the screws holding the unflanged wheels were over torqued. The APT NDM had a broken plastic piece due to the weight of the metal assembly it was attached to and how it was packaged. The Clan had a PCB and wires that could short against the metal tender chassis. The A2/3 had broken smoke deflectors due to a design flaw with the packaging (looks like Hornby tested with one type of plastic, and a different type of plastic was used in the packaging that was shipped to customers). Connecting rod screws that were loose and fell out. DVT with a light bleed problem. The APT capacitor issue and the list goes on. The same number of Dapol and Bachmann locos, no issues. Oxford Rail tends to have issues with parts, I've had to put buffers, couplings and bogies back together. Heljan just has that really annoying problem of too much buffer beam detail. Previously Heljan would leave the NEM coupling off the front of the loco, and the buffer beam detail off the rear of the loco (No. 2 end), but recently the buffer beam detail has been glued in place on the Heljan locos. To run the Class 25 in the advent calendar, I had to remove the buffer to get it to pull rolling stock!! In previous years I've been able to open Hornby locos for the advent calendar, run them in and film. This year and last year, I basically was opening and running the locos in several days prior to filming to make sure the locos worked. There were some locos I was planning to run that I couldn't, and are still on my workbench needing fixed. At least it means I have plenty of loco repair material now for 2022 :)
Pity you chose to make an erroneous criticism of the model. Moreover, you don't go on to accept you were wrong in this statement even when you finally do find the remedy. It struck me you just made little snipe at Hornby for what is generally accepted by many as a superb model. Why not just show the remedy with out your snide comments about build quality that every company has issues with, not just Hornby? Still a simple fix. Thank you.
What on earth are you talking about? The tender was sticking up in the air because the tie-rod connecting the tender to the loco was installed upside down at the factory. It derailed on Hornby's own curved points because the back-to-back on the front bogie was incorrect. What exactly was the error? I initially thought the screw on the tie-rod was just on too tight, that partially fixed the problem but it turned out it was installed upside down? The video walks you through the troubleshooting process and shows you the simple fix! The whole point of the video was to help anyone who runs into the same problem to fix their loco easily, instead of the usual sending it back.
As for my build quality comments, well when you open 24+ new Hornby locos over the course of a month and a quarter of them have the same basic QC problems out of the box, that prevent them from working, you might not be exactly too thrilled about it either. Especially when you bought the locos yourself. We are talking about parts installed upside down, wrong tension on screws, parts that break in the packaging, PCBs / wires shorting against metal parts because they lack insulation. All easy fixes, but in the past these were one-offs here and there, maybe 1 out of 30-40 locos. However we're talking 1 in 4 locos, ordered from different places, including Hornby direct, all having similar issues. Hornby are selling the Dublo range as a premium product, basic QC like upside down parts, wrong tolerances etc, aren't exactly a good impression, neither is having your customers spend an hour troubleshooting to get the thing running properly. To put it in perspective, I opened 12 Bachmann locos, 8 Dapol and 6 Heljan locos over the same period, none of the Bachmann or Dapol locos had a single problem. All 6 Heljan locos had the same "Heljan" problems with too much detail superglued onto both buffers that you couldn't use the NEM couplings to pull things!
I've recently picked up some HO locomotives from Broadway Limited, not a single problem. I bought several Irish Railway Models locos and rolling stock (Accurascale's sister company), zero problems, so it can definitely be done. I don't think we should be giving companies a free pass who don't have their act together, especially when they are upping the prices.
You intially stated the reason for the problem was that " The loco is simply too heavy... and the tender is too light." That was wrong. Later you found the problem to be that the drawbar was put in the wrong way round. Simple. All you had to do was say that you were wrong in your first assumption but instead you let that statement stand.
I agree you shouldn't give manufacturers a free pass and you should point out deficiencies when you see them. I appreciate you have had better results from other companies but that does not mean they are are free from quailty issues. Hornby certainly do have QC issues and have had for some time. I am sure they are concious of them and trying to rectify them. However making the statement about the loco being too heavy and the tender too light you were implying a faulty design issue. I am pointing out that as it stands I perceived it as being an unjust that you didn't recind your intial remark when you found out the real cause for the lifting tender. I think that would have been fair instead it comes across as a snipe. @@Oorail
@@lindsaywood1101 I never said the problem was that the loco is simply too heavy and the tender is too light. I was stating and demonstrating a fact as I troubleshooted the problem. The loco is a full metal diecast loco, and the tender is about 25g lighter than the one that comes with the Clan Class locos. General Steam Navigation weighs almost 500g without the tender. If you listen at 0:55 immediately after I said that, I stated that I thought the problem was the tie-bar applying too much pressure. However, on a standard non-Dublo loco, you wouldn't have that problem because the weight difference between the loco and tender isn't that drastic. The tie-bar on non-Dublo Hornby steam locos also is straight.
You are correct though, the weight of the tender is possibly a faulty design issue, to get around it, rather than providing a better tender, they've used an angled tie-bar between the loco and the tender. This uses the weight of the loco to push the "light" tender down towards the track. Its a clever work around, but its just that, a work around to cut down on the costs. I mention this at the end of the video when I explain the tie-bar being installed upside down. Obviously from the video you can see if this is installed incorrectly it has a comical result with the tender sticking in the air. So the weight difference between the tender and the loco is a key part of the problem.
So you would think that a key design requirement would be carefully monitored as part of the QC process? I don't think this was the first or the last Dublo loco that has this problem. Its obvious its a cost-savings design approach Hornby have taken. The video not only helps Hornby improve their QC process, but it will probably save them some money in the long run as its a simple fix, that not all of their customers are going to go to the bother to diagnose by themselves before returning it to the shop. Hornby are definitely aware of the problems, and Simon Kohler has been great passing along the various design issues and fixes to their engineering team. They have a process problem, probably due to rapid growth and having a small UK based team managing the whole thing. That said, Bachmann also have a small UK team managing the whole thing, and I literately can't remember the last time I had a problem with a new Bachmann locomotive in the past few years.
I think its important to point out these issues. In the past, RUclips was great for getting an honest opinion about model railway products because people were putting their own money on the line. So you had people buying things they were interested in with their own money, you got a fully honest review. These days most of them are no better than the magazines. They are getting free samples, early review models and have their income tied to more positive reviews because they don't want the manufacturers to stop supplying them. You are far more objective when its your own cash thats on the line. I think a lot of the QC problems we are seeing out of Hornby is a result of them feeling like they can "get away with it" because of their marketing influence and reach.
Now I am all about being fair, but so far, I haven't been convinced that the statement is wrong, the tender is literately 25g lighter than my Clan Class tender, and its a contributing factor given the design of the tie-bar is using the weight of the loco to push the lighter tender down.