Your points are all 100% valid. These things are beasts and are even kind of fair for the price, but there is one thing that drives me off from Apple: Predatory repair and maintenance policies. If you watch some Louis Rossmann videos about this topic, Apple does everything to keep these systems as closed and inaccessible as possible. I don't want to support a brand where I know that my system can be bricked within seconds and the cost for a repair is far from economic.
I switched 3 days ago to Mac Studio Ultra. - 1. super quiet. 2. all plugins i use are running native /except Drumagog .. but maybe there is a similar plugin) 3. power efficinence - 70-80Watt max on Projects with more than 100 tracks + plugins. 4. switching from a Mac pro 2013 trashcan (intel Xeon 8x3,6 GHz, 32 Ram) and the difference: Project with over 100tracks could barely run with 2048 buffer. On Mac Studio it runs on 512 with round about 25% cpu. - i am running a rme fireface UFX. thats the quick information after 3 days. Thanks for the Video Dom! have a nice weekend everybody!
Very timely video, and you nailed a lot of the things I've also been thinking. I'm also a long time Windows user and recently decided to make the switch. Got myself a MacBook M1 Pro with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD using a SanDisk 4TB external SSD for sample libraries. This thing absolutely blows my PC OUT OF THE WATER, not only in terms of raw power, but the way the OS so seamlessly integrates with all of my peripherals (x10 if they are Mac). My workflow and creativity are thriving in ways that they never have before because for the first time ever, my computer gets out of my way and reacts exactly how I want it to 99% of the time. It's actively inspiring to use.
Hey Andrew, I’m considering switching from a PC to a MacBook Pro M1 also. I was just curious if 32GBs of RAM has been enough for any bigger projects you’ve worked on with lots of VSTs or not. Thanks, Alden
@@aldenhill I'm still in the process of moving over from old machine and haven't yet had the chance to put it through the paces with heavy VST & sample library use, so I can't comment from first hand experience. But it is my understanding that you can get away with half of what you would normally need.
@@damienlobb85 it was a Frankenstein home build. Intel i7 with 32GB RAM and an NvMe system drive. I suppose I may have had better luck if I’d had it built by someone who really knows what they are doing, but worth the extra cost that would incur, I’d have ended up paying about the same as I would for a Mac.
@@GeekOfAudio so wait, how do you know the Mac absolutely blows your PC out the water if you haven't put it through the paces with heavy VSTs? Have you had the chance to now 5 months later? Curious how it's going
What a great service you provide to your community by doing a real world deep dive rather than relying on benchmarks, which frankly mean close to nothing in the large picture. I don’t know where you find the 25th hour every day but this is surely appreciated.
Since I enjoy having extra money for other equipment, I've stayed with Windows PC's and have mostly good luck for the last 20 years. My Mac friends often complain about the cost of upgrading, incompatibility, etc. For me, "if it's not broke, then don't fix it". I'll stick with my PC. :)
I’ve been a long time Windows (still am) and Apple user. I use Windows for gaming and Mac for music, graphics & video production and I’m not sure I understand your comment seeing that you don’t have to upgrade more often than a PC user. In fact I would argue the Macs holds their value and lasts longer than any PC I’ve ever had due to superior build quality which almost makes up for the fact that Apple SEVERELY overcharges for RAM and SSD’s. You also get a way more rock solid and hassle free experience due to Apple’s close integration and control of both hardware and software which is also the reason they’re so stubbornly closed off from everyone else. In the end if you prefer windows however then that’s great. Whatever keeps you productive and inspired is the most important thing after all.
Same here, I’ve built 7 PC DAWs in the last 20 years (three for myself, four for others), all rock solid, all silent, all easily surpassing the build quality of any Mac ever snapped (soldered back in the day 🤨) together on an assembly line, and none of the problems that Mac users refer to regarding PCs…and none of the problems that Mac users refer to regarding Macs. However, to build workstations like this, it takes time for me to research the hardware components for almost every build since the tech changes so frequently. Also, Windows automatic updates has become a problem because it can no longer be easily deactivated, so I had to take time to learn how to do that. Also, to keep them quiet, cool and easily upgradable, the case had to be much larger than any Mac so that’s a drawback and sometimes a dealbreaker for anyone with space issues. So if I had more money than time, it would make sense to pay more and just go with a Mac. Or if I had more work than time, I would likely have no choice but to go with Mac or an equally expensive DAW-specific windows workstation from companies like ADK or SilentPC. Unfortunately Windows laptops have fallen almost entirely from relevance, success stories are more miss than hit because of the scarcity of Intel USB 3 controllers on laptop motherboards, although thunderbolt may make that problem irrelevant now. Again, companies like ADK or SilentPC seem to have gotten around this.
@Vic LTD Yes and no! The SSD not being replacable/upgradable is a pain in the ass but the ram is so closely integrated with the CPU architecture on the Apple silicon that removing it would be impossible as it is literally in the die. Love it or hate it but this integration is the reason for the amazing results of the Apple M series processors.
Thanks Dom, I have been a life long PC user before switching last year to a MB Pro. It’s true desktop PCs are completely able to do what Macs do when it comes to music production and most of the time PC laptops can too. I need my computer to do more than just music production so I have had to use laptops and I’ve had real problems at times with PC laptops, particularly after windows updates. My last (expensive) PC laptop simply stopped being able to run Cubase after one update and after months of reconfiguring the machine, updating ram and even buying a new interface out of sheer frustration (and hearing good things about the M1 Macs) I decided to switch to a MacBook Pro M1 Pro the month after it launched. It was a very expensive outlay for me (which I know not everyone can afford) a consideration that up to that point had really put me off Macs. I was never a Mac fanboy but almost a year down the road I can honestly say that I still absolutely love this machine. It is completely unflappable and lightening fast whatever I throw at it. I have recently updated to CB12 which is amazing but for months I ran CB11 it in Rosetta and even this it was way more stable and quicker than the PC. I have run very large projects with high numbers of audio files and plugins and on a couple of occasions when exporting Files from Logic to Cubase I have been surprised to find later that I have accidentally had Logic and Cubase open at the same time with no apparent detriment to performance. My conclusions: - Is it expensive? - yes - Does it do music production well? Yes better than any computer I have ever used before - Is it overpriced? - yes if you can’t afford it but IMHO if you can afford it and need a new machine for music production, it is well worth it in terms of its cast iron stability and reliability. For that reason over time I have found that it has paid for itself in the fact that always works, saves me time and lowers my frustration levels.
I think it depends on the pc. I custom built my pc and I can easily keep up with these macs. I have ran 256 tracks at 128 sample rate, placed a convo reverb on every track, and hit record. 75 percent cpu usage. Ran it for 10 minutes with zero hiccups. This test was in PT. Keep in mind I built this PC 7 years ago. I have had zero issues with OS updates not working with plugins. I use Pro Tools, cubase, studio one, and reaper. Mainly PT and cubase. I can count on one hand the amount of crashes I've had on both daws combined in the last 7 years. You can hardly upgrade a mac, you can't repair them yourself for the most part, and for that you are pretty much pigeonholed immediately upon purchase. I love being able to upgrade my gpu when I want, upgrade my mobo or cpu when I want. Instead of buying a 3k-15k apple product that will be outdated in 10 years. PC is still king IMO. Too many limitations and walls to hurdle with Mac. I can also say that 99 percent of the issues I see posted on cubase forums, pt forums, etc are always mac related. I know more people use mac so that's part of it, but still. Why do so many people use it when it has so many issues. I know a top tier producer engineer that has like the 30k mac tower and he can't even open a session without it crashing. This is purely my experience. And btw, I own a mbp, an older one. I used to use my mbp for daily tasks and recording production. After switching to PC I have never been happier. No, PC isn't quite as good at video rendering, but I haven't used the rtx3080 gpu yet to test it.
I agree with you. I like the idea of repair something myself (not that I have needed to - but I can) I built my i9 64GIG ram Nvidea machine for around 1k maybe 3 years ago using Cubase. To get that performance on MAC I'd have to pay quarter to double the price.. for what? the look? When it comes to customisation, it has to be PC all the way, if Apple brought their prices down and you could customise I would concider. I still prefer Windows as an OS too, you simply can get more out of it. Only just though, MAC OS isnt actually too bad but not better.. I think thats the point. I disagree about the video rendering though I watched a video on RUclips several years ago and the PC did better than the MAC overall in an unbiased test "same spec" situation. However out of several tests the MAC did pull in a few victories but didnt win overall. Mind you this is just one plausable set up in the world. I do not video edit, so I can't refer to real world experience. An old producer freind had a MAC and had several crashes. To be fair though, if the machine was optimised I guess performance would be about the same as a PC and stable. I think there is a myth surrounding Apple that you dont need to do anything. All computers need to be optimised to your workflow and none are immune to potential viruses; but I cant rememeber the last time I had a virus on my PC? I dont see why generally some people think that this is a thing? perhaps a little in the mid 90's. But that was ages ago! Plus can you even use Unreal engine properly on a MAC? I mean that is the future! I am getting really into it.. and also who doesnt love a bit of gaming? I've never met a gamer using a MAC. I know it is a thing but I just havn't met one. I have met a lot of Music Producers using MAC though. I just never saw the appeal really, I dont think it fits my lifestyle. If people like the retina display spend the money on a retina monitor you get same result but it is pricey. I did actually have a MAC for a year or so back in maybe 2010 I genuiny thought, maybe I was wrong about what I was using to produce on. However I went back to PC, So it wasnt like I didnt try. Too many limitations and the price. Nah not for me. Whilst in this Video it did make me raise an eybrow I am intruiged to see what the price is, but porting everything over for something that I have been building since 1994 when I started using Windows and Cubase seems like a massive pointless chore now in 2022. And I work as a professional producer so I need a stable system. I am open for change but it needs to be better all round for me to swap again. Besides I am seeing the new GPU usage on the horizon so I think Performance upgrade isnt far behind for PC users either.
anyone with adecuate pc building and troubleshooting skills would prefer a pc over a mac, I can't seem to fix anything in mac os when it decides to crap on itself (more times than I can count) when I tinker with a pc really heavily things can go wrong but other than that pc's are just as stable as macs given all parts are working correctly.
I switched to Mac about 12 years a go and never looked back. Its just works! my last macbook pro I got in 2018. I love this computer but I wanted more processing power and eventually I got the Mac pro (very expensive) and that solved any problem I had and its a beast! I highly recommend. Thanks Dom for everything! keep doing a great job.
I switched from lifelong PC user to a MacBook a year and a half ago. I got the M1 13" MBP with 16gb of ram. Up until now it has been running great. A few tracks or a lot of tracks, and as many effects as I want, the laptop doesn't even blink. I do have to say that I still need to run my DAW in Rosetta mode, mainly because Native Instruments is not yet M1 native. But even in Rosetta it works great. I can use all the plugins that used to use on Windows, I did not loose anything. I was able to run my old projects on the new laptop (besides a sample that was missing here and there). It just took some days to getting used to the OS.
I was just watching your latest QBase 13 video and realized you finally switched over to the Mac. I just have to say one thing... Congrats and you’re welcome!👍🏾
I was a pc user from 1998 until 2006, then switched to mac once they transitioned to Intel CPU for good. A white macbook was with me everywhere. Studio, gigs, on the road. There was simply nothing for that price in the pc laptop world. As the years went by, I was going deeper and deeper the Mac world. Had macbook pros, mac pro, started collecting PPCs and then it happened. My machines were outdated, and my money was not enough 😒 to buy new ones. Software was going forward, specially OSX, and plugins with it. I couldn't update my OS and get the plugins that I wanted. I was satisfied with what I had, but I couldn't even run demos. I was feeling cut out, unless I paid for a new machine. That's when I went down the Hackintosh lane. Not perfect, a bit cheaper solution, but unfortunately not portable at all. Slowly, getting fed up with the constant OS maintenance of a "hacked" version of OSX, I slowly shifted back to Windows in 2020. It was a long ride with Apple, and I still have several machines in my collection, G3 and G4 towers and laptops, ibooks, macpros, all functional with ready to go audio recording software. Windows 10, is flexible and can run plugins 10 years old as well as new ones. I am happy to have made the change but.... I miss the simplicity and efficiency of a mac, but it's a cash eating monster. Keep it up Dom. I hope that tape delay is still doing well 😉.
I have been a mac user now since 2004 , i changed because i was a logic user. I had years of using windows and had nothing but trouble audio clicks and pops , since switching to mac never had any problems . With the m1 I couldn’t be more happy they are well built and when i can afford it will upgrade mu intel imac. Keep up the good work!
Hey Dom, you are amazing in talking about music and your positive vibes are amazing. I write cinematic music on an iMac 2016 model with i5 intel and 12 Ram..... I have to say that i am really limited in what i can compose. I'm saving from my daily job for a MacBook 16'' pro with M1 pro 32gb and 4TB of SSD drive and YES i want to give this amount of money cause i believe in my skills, everyone of you guys in the comments should do the same. BELIEVE IN YOURSELF!!! Thanks a lot Dom
Dom, love your content. First time commenting. I switched from a PC to a Mac Studio and have had no issues other than plugin compatibility. The Mac Studio is completely quiet and projects that would choke my old PC (i7 3.5Ghz 64GB RAM, I know its a bit old) run at about 10%-15% user CPU on the Mac Studio. My main complaint would be having to get thunderbolt docks or adapters for connectability, where on my PC other than a few powered Anker USB docks I didn't have to spend much. My monitors were all HDMI so I had to get a thunderbolt dock and a thunderbolt to two HDMI connector from OWC. I am currently running Cubase 12 in rosetta mode for some plugin compatibility so I expect that when those plugins are native (cough cough Native Instruments) my performance will be even better. Thanks again for all your content!
I have both. PC in Studio. An maximal overclocked I9-7940X, 64 gb, with watercooling. No noise. Love the performance. Never had problems. But in the end a 5k €. My MacBook m1 max was about the same price and has roughly 30% better performance. As my main pc is so tightly connected and does the job I will use it till it dies, but there is simple no reason for investing 10k € in two computers when it all can be done with one. I would go with a Mac in the future.
My M1 mac studio is a beast. I love it. If the thing dies on me 6 months after applecare expires, ask me again if I love it. Have you discovered the beauty that is the apple composite audio device? You can join two 8 channel audio interfaces into a single 16 channel audio interface in mac os. It's a killer feature. Shots fired, Microsoft.
Just ordered my MBP a bit ago. Always been a PC user prior, but going to a laptop setup was always my goal. Dpc issues and bloatware plagued every windows laptop I tried, but this time I am feeling insanely confident with what these new macs can do!!
@@sterling-beats I love it. Now that a lot of plugins have gone native, everything is working really good. Still some 3rd party plugs that may crash cubase every now and then, but I've been slowly cutting those plugs out or been using them sparingly when needed. And the speed of doing things is great. Rendering in place and exports are swift and the workflow is snappy. I did have to learn some of the shortcuts again coming from PC, but it was pretty quick.
I bought a Macbook pro a few years ago to see what the fuss was all about. I found the old saying that switching from PC to Mac was like moving to a foreign country but not being able to speak the language. The Mac was just all backwards compared to Windows for me. After a couple of years with the Mac being used as a paperweight and a dust catcher, I sold it with no regrets. Im still using W7 and it works great on 2011 HP Z800 Dual hexcores. I have 3 machines with 72 gigs of ram in each. 1 for main DAW ( Cubase ) and the other 2 are servers that handle all the CPU hungry VSTi's using Audiogridder and Vienna Ensemble Pro. Im running a MOTU Audio card and 4 - 24 i/o breakout boxes for 96 TRS ins and outs, at a buffer setting of 64 and it will also do 32 if I need it to. Bottom line, the system isnt broken. It works well so for me, theres no point in spending any amount of money to get newer computers to give me what I already have, and that is a working Cubase 10.5 set up to produce songs and Premiere to make videos. Im 67 now and Ive been thru the "shiny object syndrome" stuff when it comes to modules, and outboard gear. New gear if fun but if the system you have is doing the job and is making you money, then why do you need to upgrade to a new anything, when six months down the road something more powerful will be out and what you just upgraded to, is yesterdays news? The best system is the one that works well enough for you. If its doin the job, great. If not upgrade. I just priced out the new MacBook pro 16" with the M1 pro chip and its $100 more than I paid for my three HP machines total. New, the HPs were over $10k each when they first came out, but I bought them refurbished a few years after they were new. Theyre industrial grade servers and designed to be run hard, 24/7. I dont run them near that hard. They still have more than enough horsepower to rum Cubase and Adobe Premiere for me without breaking a sweat. Your mileage may vary. Do you believe that having a new machine that goes a Gazillion miles an hour is gonna impress the clientele or is the quality of your finished production gonna do that? Remember, all of the work you admire from other producers was all done on old outdated tech. Its not the clubs...its the golfers skill with those old clubs that makes the difference. Your mileage may vary...
Hi Dom - looks like a lot of us are taking the plunge on the M1. Just watched Guy Michelmore's video doing the same. I started my conversion to the M1 Pro two weeks ago (MacBook Pro 16). Kind of painful with some of the VSTs and having to load everything again. Hoping the AXR4 h/w control becomes native soon (Halion 6, Komplete Control, etc.). Looking forward to watching your journey and learning! UF8 review soon? I won't consider buying until it get's the Dom stamp of approval : )
I switched to Mac in late 2008, and couple of years later somehow caught myself that all my serious (paid) work is being done on Mac. :) It just works. I press power button, launch Nuendo, Logic or PT, whatever I need right now, and just do my daily job. I'm a long time PC user either, and I believe that Windows has made a long way. W7, 10 and 11 are pretty usable and solid. Hell, even 8.x was a pretty nice OS, not even mention good old XP. But when it comes to comfort and reliable ecosystem - IMHO Mac is absolute winner, it fits like a gloove. The only downside is Apple with their terrible, but well deserved reputation.
I swapped from PC to a Mac this year and will never look back. I was running an i9 9900k and it would complain using the granular engine on Omnisphere, not so with the Mac. It hasn't missed a beat since I got it and throughly enjoyed the experience so far.
@@Jursorama I went for the studio 64gb version and 1TB internal drive. I plug in a black magic SSD docking station to expand storage to 8TB all SSD. Works a charm and stuck with Cubase, currently Pro 12. If you need to know anything else feel free to drop me an e-mail through my website.
I just read some articles about Hans Zimmer. He uses both Macs and PCs, but he does carry his Macbook Pro around with him everywhere. He also uses Cubase and ProTools. Cubase is his "go-to" Daw for music creation, then uses ProTools to combine music with video production. Interestingly he uses 2 Native Intruments midi keyboards and an upright acoustic piano for his live concert, "Pirates of the Caribbean." I thought he might be using NI software but he swears by a company called Zebra by u-he, to get sounds like no other.
I have a mac mini M1 with cubase 1 year ago and it works perfectly without a cubase 12 pro rosette. And fl in its latest versions works perfect, I also have a number of plugins and they work perfectly. Highly recommended since its workflow is smooth and fast. Incredible.
I’m anxiously awaiting for them to put the M3 chip in a Mac mini to create a new music production machine. With the Mac mini, you can use any keyboard, track pad, mouse, and monitor that you like. I plan on using all my current Apple stuff and some other monitor which I will mount on the wall w an arm. I’m super open to suggestions on the monitor and the mounting assembly. Once I hear some performance numbers from music production, then I’ll decide whether I’m gonna stick with the into or go for the M3.
The PC just works for me, I always have and I just can't seem to justify the extra cost for the purchase of a mac, notwithstanding the higher price for plugins, having to buy extra gadgets, also being stuck with their proprietary products, etc...
And yet … I guarantee if and when you upgrade to Apple you will be kicking yourself why you didn’t make the jump years ago? If that wasn’t true, then it wouldn’t even be a debate. Unfortunately, it is true.
@@79Glitch I tried and came back to PC because of the cost and proprietary products. The reason I went back to PC is because the Mac was becoming outdated, and I really couldn't upgrade it with the equipment I had. Now I have had the same PC for 8 years upgrading components as I go until the motherboard doesn't support newer processors.
Was planning on making this switch 2 years ago when I bought a 16-inch Macbook pro with the M1 Max processor, then I ran into some unexpected difficulties. First of all, my current interface runs on a Firewire connection (and it works great with my PC). The new Macbook’s only have Thunderbolt 4, and there are NO interfaces (as of Sept 2023) that use that format. So either I have to buy a TB3 interface (very few options and very expensive!), or set up an elaborate string of adaptors to continue using my Firewire interface (adaptors into adaptors into adaptors = signal degradation between interface and DAW) Second, the MacBook Pro has no standard USB ports, meaning you have to add the additional cost of a hub if like most people you have 1 or more midi devices that use standard USB. The Macbook Pro is a monster of a platform, but it really shortchanges musicians by creating this interconnect limitation.
It was all about the convenience which pushed me entirely into Mac for music production and more. No need for additional installations for physical equipment, no need for constant troubleshooting and more, just plug and play! M1 Pro is what I ended up getting and it's perfect, especially with the high impedance headphone port built in which meant I can finally produce on the train from Bournemouth to London without needing a pre-amp for my 250ohm headphones.
Dom, thank you again. I have to say you have always been patient with me, (especially when I make the live show where you answer in the comments), and NOT ONE TIME have you ever given me bad advice. Again, thank you.
I recently bought a laptop because I travel so much. I read about these new Macbooks and saw some music related reviews. They sounded impressive. But the price soon put me off… I’m running a home built PC that is now 7 years old and it’s still going great. For the money that I saved by buying a capable, but not so expensive, laptop, instead of a MacBook Pro, I now have enough money to build a new mega PC when I eventually need to replace my existing beast, or more libraries, gear, whatever. The point is, I retained more money to spend on other things. The quietness of the MacBook is definitely a winner for us muso’s though. That would be a strong plus.
I think this has improved, when I switched to the Mac M2, _all_ plug-ins worked and were available as native VST3 versions. For some very old plugins there is a option with metaplugin, so even some very old ArtsAcoustic plugins work, as well as NI's discontinued Absynth. The performance of Cubase 13 is amazing. No Windows PC can keep up at the moment, especially: whisper quiet! Personally, I find MacOS much better than Windows... and I've been an absolute PC fanboy since Windows 3.1 (so over 30 years). Apple with the M1/M2/M3 etc. is brilliant, especially for musicians.
Gone M1 Mini. £600 refurbished and simply works. Yes a couple of things are not available I.e. halion full version but, and it's a big one.... it is unbelievable how well this little vox works. Been Windows since forever but now.... I am sold.
@@csdstudio78 I just checked the name of the company, it is simply called GPU Audio and they had some small demo at NAMM 22. The concept looks extremely good but I understand your concerns. Also, knowing that VST developers are still not interested even in multicore processing (at this point it's kinda ridiculous) I have the same thoughts about big developers jumping on the GPU idea.
I don't see the value of switching from PC to macOS nowadays. When MAO became a thing a long time ago, MAC was the valuable computer to run a DAW with stability. Nowadays, PC and MAC are neck to neck. So the only question is for what utility ? For homestudio only ? For the stage ? Or for both ? And the answer to that question will led the end result in my opinion. :)
I think that if you're a hobbyist, PC is great. If you're working professionally, then you need to evaluate the options every time you need to update your PC. Being loyal to Mac or PC makes no sense- get the one that fulfills your needs ;)
@@DomSigalas 100% agree. But as a PC user, the reevaluation is less painful than MAC since the past years. But I'm very impressed with what you said about the M1. A person who will decided to start with the M1 for music production, will be confident enough to stay on it for years
I’d like to see a real world comparison of your PC vs the Mac running Rosetta. In most cases Rosetta still out performs other options. So I’d be really curious to see it compared
As an M1 Mac Studio MAX owner, I can say that I haven’t been able to break it yet with any session or VI plug-in. It was worth the cash and as a former (recent) PC user, I much prefer OSX. Core Audio is so much smoother and fluid than dealing with ASIO drivers on the PC side.
Not a chance. As an engineer who has had to deal with overpriced, under-engineered Apple hardware designed for failure and obsolescence, I enjoy extending the life of my PC by replacing parts ad-hoc from any manufacturer I choose. Apple products are designed to be next to impossible to service, they want you to use it for a few years, throw it in the trash and buy another new, overpriced piece of Apple gear. What? Your Apple gear is still running after four years? No problem, they'll issue a new OS that makes your hardware incompatible, forcing you to upgrade yet again. No thank you.
I see your point Scott and that's why my main system has always been a PC for over two decades now. BUT, I have a few big but's: 1. If you are working as a professional with tight deadlines and your PC breaks, you are in serious trouble. I had it happen to me in the past when I was working on a National Geographic show and it really almost caused me to lose the gig. I just couldn't source the parts to repair it 2. I am sick and tired of the constant DPC spikes with the AMD and NVidia graphic cards. I know the person who writes all the PC -related articles on Sound On Sound and he is still baffled by these issues. Even on my own PC I have to compromise on how I setup my screens in case I bother the precious NVidia drivers. No problems like this on the Mac 3. For creative purposes and for video editing Final Cut Pro smokes every single other NLE out there. For pro work I use DaVinci but I've never seen a PC render a video so lightening fast like FCP on a basic model Mac. It's just night a day... and I happen to do a lot of video ;) 4. Airdrop is something that PC users have never tried and they cannot appreciate. Windows have to up their game on their OS. 5. Yes, for quite a few years both PCs and Macs have been using similar components. Not anymore. And M1s can render a full 4K video without even spinning the fan or draining your battery. This is remarkable 6. I had extremely good experience with Apple when it comes to support and after sales care. I still have a 2015 Macbook Pro and works flawlessly. I think some of the things people assume when they hear "Apple" are not fully true anymore Yes, Macs are overpriced but in my opinion the only thing that remains overpriced is the ridiculous prices for the M2 storage and RAM. And yes, non being able to upgrade sucks big time! And all this from a PC guy
@@DomSigalas I'll give you the POV from the other side of the fence. I was a very happy Mac user for many years. When you have a problem though here in Liverpool and Manchester, the Apple Stores tell you to come back in several days to weeks once they've sourced replacement components for your non-standard highest-specced machines, which they don't tend to carry in-store, and need to be ordered online, and they generally can't replace them same-day and you need to go back once again on the following day. That's a very expensive, time-consuming problem to have when I've got better things to be doing than farting around in Apple Stores waiting for Doris to have her iPhone battery fixed. That almost lost me a gig too. Meanwhile, I could have same-day'd or next-day'd PC components, or picked them up in-person, and have been back up and running again. That kept happening with Macs. The reliability and QA has gone rapidly downhill since Steve Jobs passed. Sourcing PC components isn't hard, and pros should have spares, and ideally a B rig for if the shit hits the fan, not a knock against you, just been there, got the t-shirt, now learned from past mistakes, now have spares, have a B rig, don't use Macs anymore, they're too impractical to get fixed, at least here in Liverpool, Manchester and occasionally Berlin. Sure, it's interesting, but fan-noise isn't an issue if you're keeping your computers in another room, and you can even buy PC cases that are passively cooled with zero fans if someone doesn't have the luxury of space.
I just switched to PC from Mac last year because my Mac is an old 2015 mid MBP and don't have the money to upgrade lol. Still using macbook for daily life but making music mainly on PC.
Recently started using (for mobile work out of the studio) an Asus Duo laptop. Twin touch screens and TB4 for the Apollo. Win11 and Cubase run perfectly. Touch screens are great for quick adjustments.
Thank you Dom. I agree with mostly all you have said here in this video. I bought the 16” M1 MacBook Pro Max in January 2022 with the 64gb ram & the 32 GPU. Besides Rosetta & some plugin compatibility issues this thing is a beast! It is an awesome performer. Your video here shares a lot of my experience & opinions of how I feel about my time with the Apple M1/silicon. I still have my Intel desktop. It works great. I’ve never owned a laptop before until January 2022. I am very impressed with M1 MacBook Pro Max. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, opinions, advice & experiences with the M1 MacBook Pro Max.
Great video! I'm definitely a PC guy keeping his eyes open with this. However being a gamer usually keeps me on the PC side of things. But a macbook pro may be in my future. Looking forward to your future videos on this topic.
I already switched to Mac Studio. Running Cubase 12 pro with full version Komplete 13 and a bunch of Ni vst plug insThat I purchased separately, It works like a champ. I love it. Thanks Dom for a great video as always.
how about HW-like interfaces, midi keyboards? I think of Mac Studio too, but I use URC44C and NI KK61 and CC121 Controller and I am afraid of getting into trouble, not to mention being forced to use Rosseta for god knows how long
I have been mainly using Mac for a long time for music production. I am currently using Reaper. I was a huge Logic user for a long time. For a cupple of months, because of Logic acting weird and slowing stuff down, I decided to switch to Windows and try it out. While I enjoyed it really much, in my opinion, I really couldn't see myself using it long term. There are things that I can do on my Mac that Windows doesn't do... or if it does, its hard to do those things. One example is routing audio between apps. On the Mac, its really easy with a software called Loop Back. On Windows, there are options, but its really hard to get that up and running. Also, when it comes to Asio on Windows, you can't use another device for sending the output of whatever you are doing to a different device. On Mac, you can easily set up things where you have your audio interface as your input, then your headphones or whatever you have as the output. Anyway, sorry for the rant, but in conclusion, I'm going to be switching back to Mac. I still have my Mac Studio, and it still works fantastic!
Cubase lacks only one thing: a real full screen as offered on all other applications in the world! Just a click on green button for a total screen mode that hide dock and window bar and menu. I don't know why Steinberg still continue to not work on this also in Cubase 13.
Hey Dom, Great Video! I am in the market for a new laptop and I was thinking about the MacBook M1 Pro for music production, but I am scared to pull the trigger on it. Let us know how it goes!
My 'producing music on computer' experience goes back to Amigas and Atari's. I've owned and used both PCs and Mac's since then. For a number of reasons, in around 2012 the cost/performance ratio of using Mac's No longer made sense to me. I dropped Mac's then and haven't looked back... until the M1 arrived. Now, I'm looking back. I'm with Dom here: it isn't quite time yet to go back. I'm getting old enough now, that I may never go back. ...and I'll still be happy.
This is literally the perfect video for me, as I will be switching to a Macbook soon. I one hundred percent confirm the enormous frustration anyone who attempts audio production on a windows laptop will have. I had to return / resell 50 % of the windows laptops I've bought over the last ten years due to audio glitching. I can add Dell, Razer and Huawei to that list of yours. Lenovo seems to work all right, although I've always found them to be loud as hell. Mine is huffing like a bull as I am typing this, even though Chrome is the only thing I am running....
I am a PC user! I will never switch, simply for one reason and one reason only. While i have no doubt that macs are very good in their own right, in my opinion they are massively OVERPRICED!!!! So, no i would not switch. I WOULD TEST their abilities if i got my hands on a freebie, but, obviously that won't happen. Lol
You don't have to switch! Keep in mind that I'm also a PC user but I am also doing video professionally so Mac makes sense for me in that regard. If I could have both my video and audio system in one machine then there's a happy Dom :) Not yet though!
Traditionally I would always have agreed with you. I've always been PC for that reason. But the M1 chip has changed everything and you'd pay the same price for a PC with the same power, if you could find a windows laptop with this power for music production. So I'm switching to Mac for the first time ever... Help haha!
I would agree with you in a heartbeat before they released M1 but, the m1 are absolutely worth the money, you can get $5000 Mac Pro levels of performance for $999 for a MacBook Air m1. This is coming from a windows fanboy, was using windows for decades but man these m1 macs really changed my life, beats my $4000 Alienware laptop in terms of music production performance and stability
Thanks for that video mate. I had to switch from my pc to a mobile pc. I have tried 3 different windows highend laptops in the last time. Compared, watched tons of review videos before buying. Problems here and there. And the machines were so loud because of the fans. So my last one was a lenovo thinkpad p14s with an amd ryzen 6850u, 32gb ram, and 1tb fast ssd. The machine run my biggest project. But man, the fans screaming, the laptop got hot on the surface and the overall build quality was feeling cheap. Now, I "downgraded" to a macbook air m2 with 16gb ram and 512gb ssd. And damn. That machine runs so fast even without fans. What you didnt mention in your video. The m-processors need a lot less watts then the intels or amds and deliver still better performance. That are all points that justify the higher price.
Very much the same opinion, for mobile production, Macbook M1s are great, as well as for live DJ/DAW performance modes. Windows is good for studio production and will save budget savvy folks some coin. I am waiting for the Mac mini M2 to be released, the way the processor handles RAM management means that a 16GB MAC M series will give most folk all they need for visual and audio production (unless you really want to break the bank with the MAC studio, a little overkill though IMO). Great video as always Dom.
The thing that keeps me using PCs is repairs and upgrades. I think it's what keeps alot of people on PC. If there is a problem I can just replace the faulty component or if a better part becomes available I can just swap it out. Macs are usually glued shut these days and not repairs friendly.
I see where you’re coming from Fret, but this is what happened to me in the past: I was scoring a National Geographic series with super tight deadline: my PC stopped working midway through. In the end I realized it was the mobo. No matter what, I could not replace it for a two year old PC- the part wasn’t available and there if I changed mobo that would mean a Windows re-installation. Meanwhile with MacBooks , whenever I had something break, Apple would just fix it. No questions asked. And if it was something on their side (e.g. problematic logic boards), they would replace it even years after warranty had expired. And if you ever need to get a replacement Mac you can always run your old operating system from an external SSD or even time machine it to the new computer. This is something that I’ve been waiting for decades to happen on PC-land. If you use your machine professionally, you either need a good company that makes PCs and has your back (I use Scan) or have a second PC duplicate in case things go south, or well… maybe a Mac ;)
@@DomSigalas why would you need a new windows install for a faulty mobo? just plug the drive in the new one and let it update the drivers for the new thing
@@xxlintux been there done this before. You get all sorts of glitches and BSODs when doing this. If you try to do this on a professional studio with deadlines you might as well close your business down 😀
@@fretclimber7874 oh I can fix PCs. But if I’m working 14 hrs a day on my actual work (music) if I start fixing PC issues I might as well become an IT guy :) in a professional studio you need something that gives you the shortest downtime possible. I am not exaggerating by saying that studios that use PCs buy all the parts twice when they buy their computer for redundancy. And this makes it a more expensive business than buying a Mac 😂
I started on the Digital Performer DAW in the year 2001 with a Mac G4. My mentor-- a pro TV composer at the time- used the same system, but they switched to Logic on PC's because they could build them and save $. Then Logic was discontinued for PC and they turned to Cubase and then Nuendo. I didn't want to switch till I needed a new CD burner (ha!) that would cost me $300... and upgrading to a Mac g5 would have cost me nearly 5k. But I eventually did it since my mentor could continue teaching me. So in the years after I switched to Cubase SX (haha) on PC, I've built a new state of the art computer every 6 to 8 years for $1500 to $2k. Massive savings and more power every time. The PC programs had some drawbacks and were over complicated at first, but the power I got was better than what I could afford on Mac. Most hi level pros have both in some form-- especially since video editing is part of the game these days. But I've found PC's make me understand the computer better. Macs are beautiful, but they hide what's under the hood. And repair/upgrade costs were huge. Anyway, great video. Just my $0.02. 😉
Thank you. I have the same question, but I've never used a Mac. I will look forward to the results. In the meantime I will watch your videos that are coming out ; )
Thank you for doing this! I have always wanted to see what the Mac system would be like and I'm sure with how deep you dive it will be incredibly clear as to what things to expect if switching.
I have a Mac Studio and I love it. It's not absolutely noiseless like the Mac Mini m1 is, which I also have, but it's a really powerful and quite machine.
The problem with Macs as a music pro is the lack of sufficient usb ports. I have a Presonus 32s a Moog Sub Phatty ,Moog Sub 37 ,Auturia minibrut 2 Deepmind 12,Elektron Digitat, Digitone Auturia drumbrut,Roland TR8s etc. Not posable to connect all at once to a mac. A PC no problem
Hi Dom, I post comments very rarely so I take this opportunity to tell you how much I appreciate your channel and the energy, the passion, the good vibes you put into it. I learned a lot thanks to you and I also ruined myself a lot thanks to you :) I can comment a bit with my own experience. I switched to the M1 platform almost a year ago when Cubase and the vast majority of plugin editors did not yet support it. I had bet on the fact that the support would be quite fast. I know, I played a bit with fire... Today things are quite different, I could actually use my new MacBook Pro as my main workstation, but… there is Universal Audio. As you may know Steinberg supports Apple silicon only for the VST3 standard. UA officially supports Apple Silicon but they still haven't made the transition to VST3 (released 14 years ago). In my whole bank of plugins (Plugin Alliance, Arturia, Waves, Eventide, Native Instruments, Spectrasonics, Baby Audio, Fabfilter, Soundtoys, Valhalla, Softube, Output, Toontrack...), UA is the only one that prevents me to use Cubase in native mode. Even Soundtoys, a genial editor, but not known as the most prolific and reactive one out there, released a VST3 version of its plugins two weeks ago! It's quite frustrating especially since UA technical support doesn't want to communicate about a possible roadmap for VST3 support. I was aware of the risks though. Let’s just hope for the best!
Hi Dom, I met you many years ago at the olympia and you've got me into cubase even though I 'm not a musician. The thing is I bought a cubase and composed some tunes and now I'd like to meet you again for you to produce one of my tunes, of course we'll discuss your fee.
I switched to an Imac in 2012 to replace my custom Alienware pos and it was the best decision I ever made. Never had a crash on my mac which is still going strong even though I can no longer update the operating system. 🤪 I’ll probably upgrade to a new system within the year even though I don’t need to.😂
Thanks. The standard RAM is not going to cut it if you're streaming multiple, large sample libraries. You need 32GB to BEGIN with really. Some of the newer libraries are EXTREMELY memory intensive.
PC with Cubase since 1996, then Studio One. No need to blow a ton of money for Mac! I even run studio one on a bare bones laptop. I put an ssd in the laptop, and the only problem is that I can't increase the memory, or change the cpu so once I add a bunch of plug-ins, the system maxes out. With a few plug-ins I have run 75 audio tracks on this budget PC. Absolutely no need for a Mac for me.
I think even with Rosetta enabled the new macs are still way faster. The only issue is if you have plugins, that are not silicone ready, then it is better to run it in Rosetta, is what I have been told, that's where it feels like it's slowing down if you try to run plugins that are not compatible yet. I'm getting an m1 in a months time, I've been informed to run everything in rosetta and not try to run native yet and the machine is then super fast.
I got the m1pro 16” in December. Personally I don’t run Cubase in native mode due to plug-in compatibility and because well….I don’t feel like Cubase struggles under Rosetta so…. Love having a laptop though, getting so much more done.
Thanks for this video Dom 🙏 I am in a similar boat 😄But as a hobbyist I am taking it real slow. I am also giving Logic Pro a try before dropping all my Cubase stuff on there.
You really got my attention with this one Dom ! I'm in the market for a PC - always been a PC user, but I'm very curious about apple/M1 performance. Really looking forward to the follow up videos and seeing how it all works out for you. One last thing - I'm still using an 11 year old i7 PC - and it does everything I need, as I bounce ideas and don't rely (like I used to years ago) on having tonnes of plugins going at once - I like the commit to audio approach, and it saves you a headache for opening old projects years later ! Will be watching out for your updates - Regards from Dublin Ireland !
Been a PC user since the 90s. Tried switching to Mac, it's powerful but way to expensive. ...but the main reason I've returned to PC is all the hazzle with Mac. Half of the plugins didn't work or acted weird 🤥. Havn't made a proper test but my new I9 with ddr5 seems even more powerful than the Mac. AND I can game on it🤩
You know what's better than switching? Switching back! I got a good laugh at my peers when they cried because the Arch/Eng industry doesn't use mac. Macs are for feeble-minded hacks.
A simple machine like the M1 mac mini 16 gb version can run a ton of plug ins (including omnisphere, nexus, spitfire symphonic strings). I have a project in logic that has over 200 tracks and it deals with it as if it is nothing. It is incredibly affordable and super fast and stable. Can't ask for more from a computer I guess.
That's a very interesting story for anyone looking to buying a Mac. Can I ask if 16gb was good enough for the 200+ track project and how much of extra gb room you had when you were working on it? (and I want to kindly ask you how many vsti you had in the project without rendering them, or how many instances of those CPU intense plugins you can load in your Mac system without causing any issues😆)
@@DycayBeats Lemme say that the 240 track project had 60 % audio tracks and 40 % software instrument tracks. And in that 40 % software instrument tracks, at least 50 % of them were really intensive plug ins like Omnisphere and Spitfire symphonic strings.
@@siddharth_r1 Wow that's remarkable. Thanks for the relply! I suppose even the M1 macbook air is overkill for most bedroom producers and I don't even need the M1 Max or better ones😀(Considering I use an intel 8th gen i7 CPU on the highest buffer size and runs out of resources really quickly😅)
@@DycayBeats Yes. The M1s are amazing. The max chip is mainly for 3d intensive processes like rendering as it has a 32 core gpu while maintaining the same 10 core CPU as the pro chip. Meaning it won’t create a huge jump in performance for audio production when compared to the m1 pro chip. And as you said, the MacBook Air with 16 gb ram is still an over kill for many.
I'm too poor to even know what a Rosetta is. Windows, Mac.. Whatever helps you make music. Having the best specs or the lowest latency won't help you if you don't release music. Use whatever works for you.
Windows user since...3.1. I AVOIDED Windows 8 by buying a Mac Pro (this was in 2012). Very nice machine but...I couldn't get used to how restrictive file management was compared to Windows. I know people who prefer it but for me, I still preferred Windows to work in and kept Win7 on my desktop machine for years. Every musician I know running MBPs complains when the OS updates and breaks compatibility with their DAW/software instruments/something else. My planned "transfer music making to Apple" didn't happen. Most branded consumer PC laptops are full of bloatware and poor components it seems. I have a good Dell bought 2 years ago which cost a 3rd of what the equivalent MBP cost at the time. And a spec'ed up bespoke PC both running W10 - which is less than perfect, absolutely. NOW, assuming more devs jump to support M1, I can see Apple making Windows laptops almost obsolete. They're not for me yet but hey, maybe next time either machine dies, I'll try again.
There is not much communication about this but, few M1 series had many problems (hardware and software ecosystem wise), and for a software developer, it was not ready for a long time (at least about a year), and it may be still not "production ready" in 2023; so this is a no go for both sound mix/master and software development. In principle the M1 seems to be a very good thing, but in the end, it's mainly the ecosystem (other hardware, software, *maintenance & support* , updates, security, reliability...) that matters. When the M1 will be a stable and better supported ecosystem, I may consider it, esp. for the compute power/electrical power ratio, silence etc.
one remark, with "core audio" the only difference in performance depends on the number of i/o (bandwidth) so you will not get better performance with external audio interface compared to the internal. "scan audio" wrote about this in length.
Hmmm... Interesting! On my tests here the latency performance was definitely better with an external Audio interface...Could you share that resource please? I am really interested in it.
@@DomSigalas tried to find it but i couldn't and got lost :) it was mentioned on some test but i can't remember the details, if you have a chance to ask him where it is i will be happy for a link, cheers!
I used to have an ol' trusty 2012 MBP for music production and personal use, and a desktop PC for games and engineering related software that wasn't available for Mac (also had a windows virtual machine installed in the mac to carry such software elsewhere). Once new macs started to come without ports, I just sold mine and bought an ASUS laptop. A 2-grand PC has better specs than a 2-grand MBP, and better connectivity. There's nothing in music production you can't do in Win10, all DAWs and plugins support it, the performance is excellent, stable and snappy, and I don't have to separate my activities in different machines anymore. I often work in large scoring sessions with lots of VSTi, lots of audio tracks and a video track, and 3 screens. I'm never going back to apple.
Can we get the stress test project please - I doubt your info is correct - I think we need to let the community test this as hard drives etc. will influence audio performance a lot. Can you give more information on the stress test ?
the "problem" with cubase in m1 native mode is that developers not only need to have m1 natively but also vst3, which some well known vendors didn't have until a few weeks ago, xfer and a few others are still in beta or even alpha stage. however, i run 300+ tracks in m1 with loads of vst and vsti's and my maxed out 14" runs extremely good. antares (codemeter) causes problems. they're on it tho.
Thing is, PC has been getting better and better for music production for years now and will only really get better as there will always be more finance collectively behind it. And it will always be more cost effective and edge others with more software. Even if Mac has a few perks which make some things run better, it has never been enough for me to justify being stuck into its eco system and spending more money on it. If your going to learn music production then learning how to get the best out of a PC is hardly going to top the shit you need to learn.
One thing to note about the Mac. OS updates can break your plugins and your software. This is a major issue and almost never happens on windows. It's probably the worst part of my experience switching to the Mac. You basically cannot update your OS if you want a stable system.
I've been using Windows my entire life. Since the times when I could only use pirated software versions and low quality components. For about 15 years now I use only original software, components of the best quality, assembled with specialized technicians. But I never got to the point of having full functionality. Always dealing with little problems that pop up here and there from time to time. Based on my many years of experience with my iPhones and iPads, I decided to buy a Mac Mini M1 16Gb a year ago. I don't want to be an Apple funboy, but I have to admit, it's magnificent. Everything works perfectly. Other than the performance, it beats my 32Gb Ram i7 9700 PC with the greatest ease. Dead silent. And, in my opinion, cheap for what it offers. It is a pity that this is so, because in my country Apple products are a small fortune. Windows has served me (and still does) for decades. But as long as I have the financial means, Windows as my main music production computer never again.
Hey Dom. I would be interested to see from film composing point of view how you find ram usage of kontslt and sample libraries etc. there’s not much out there on that but film composers tend to need lots of RAM.
Well Dom... very convincing and persuasive video including all the "caveat"... BUT: 1) the overall cost/benefit is still on the PC side; 2) the hardware customization/upgrading is still on the PC side, better: is a big no no in the Mac; 3) the bigest and fastest internal M2 drive expansion/upgrading is still on the PC side. All this with some of my beloved old plugins incompatibility make me stay on the PC side for a while. Well... unless we are talking about "mobility" only... and in this case... yeah the newest Mac Pro are a no brainer solution!
This is indeed a very personal thing. But from my perspective as of this moment: 1. Mac mini and entry level Mac studios are amazing machines that will outperform similarly priced PCs. Without any of the windows issues. 2. I’ve been using PCs for over 20 years. I have probably upgraded 2 times my PCs over all these years. For professional work you get a system that works and the only thing you might upgrade is the hard drives - ram is a nightmare to upgrade if a PC is several years old. It’s a recipe for problems. I’ve done it, it sucks. Customisation I agree with you. PC wins for sure. 3. Yes Apple charges extortionate amounts for their internal storage. However, check my video on the Blackmagic Multidock 10G. Problem solved :) 4. Most plugins are compatible with M2 and my Mac Studio. I honestly miss 1-2 plugins still. The new machines are phenomenal. Simple as that. And very reasonably priced considering the performance you get. This is all UNTIL Intel hits back with something so compelling and Windows fix their issues. We will see :)
Your points are all 100% valid. These things are beasts and are even kind of fair for the price, but there is one thing that drives me off from Apple: Predatory repair and maintenance policies.
If you watch some Louis Rossmann videos about this topic, Apple does everything to keep these systems as closed and inaccessible as possible. I don't want to support a brand where I know that my system can be bricked within seconds and the cost for a repair is far from economic.
I switched 3 days ago to Mac Studio Ultra. - 1. super quiet. 2. all plugins i use are running native /except Drumagog .. but maybe there is a similar plugin) 3. power efficinence - 70-80Watt max on Projects with more than 100 tracks + plugins. 4. switching from a Mac pro 2013 trashcan (intel Xeon 8x3,6 GHz, 32 Ram) and the difference: Project with over 100tracks could barely run with 2048 buffer. On Mac Studio it runs on 512 with round about 25% cpu. - i am running a rme fireface UFX. thats the quick information after 3 days. Thanks for the Video Dom! have a nice weekend everybody!
ou could try trigger from slate to replace drumagog
Very timely video, and you nailed a lot of the things I've also been thinking. I'm also a long time Windows user and recently decided to make the switch. Got myself a MacBook M1 Pro with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD using a SanDisk 4TB external SSD for sample libraries. This thing absolutely blows my PC OUT OF THE WATER, not only in terms of raw power, but the way the OS so seamlessly integrates with all of my peripherals (x10 if they are Mac). My workflow and creativity are thriving in ways that they never have before because for the first time ever, my computer gets out of my way and reacts exactly how I want it to 99% of the time. It's actively inspiring to use.
Hey Andrew, I’m considering switching from a PC to a MacBook Pro M1 also. I was just curious if 32GBs of RAM has been enough for any bigger projects you’ve worked on with lots of VSTs or not. Thanks, Alden
@@aldenhill I'm still in the process of moving over from old machine and haven't yet had the chance to put it through the paces with heavy VST & sample library use, so I can't comment from first hand experience. But it is my understanding that you can get away with half of what you would normally need.
What was your old PC?
@@damienlobb85 it was a Frankenstein home build. Intel i7 with 32GB RAM and an NvMe system drive. I suppose I may have had better luck if I’d had it built by someone who really knows what they are doing, but worth the extra cost that would incur, I’d have ended up paying about the same as I would for a Mac.
@@GeekOfAudio so wait, how do you know the Mac absolutely blows your PC out the water if you haven't put it through the paces with heavy VSTs? Have you had the chance to now 5 months later? Curious how it's going
What a great service you provide to your community by doing a real world deep dive rather than relying on benchmarks, which frankly mean close to nothing in the large picture. I don’t know where you find the 25th hour every day but this is surely appreciated.
Since I enjoy having extra money for other equipment, I've stayed with Windows PC's and have mostly good luck for the last 20 years. My Mac friends often complain about the cost of upgrading, incompatibility, etc. For me, "if it's not broke, then don't fix it". I'll stick with my PC. :)
I’ve been a long time Windows (still am) and Apple user. I use Windows for gaming and Mac for music, graphics & video production and I’m not sure I understand your comment seeing that you don’t have to upgrade more often than a PC user. In fact I would argue the Macs holds their value and lasts longer than any PC I’ve ever had due to superior build quality which almost makes up for the fact that Apple SEVERELY overcharges for RAM and SSD’s. You also get a way more rock solid and hassle free experience due to Apple’s close integration and control of both hardware and software which is also the reason they’re so stubbornly closed off from everyone else.
In the end if you prefer windows however then that’s great. Whatever keeps you productive and inspired is the most important thing after all.
Me too! PC is just a good, if not better.
Same here, I’ve built 7 PC DAWs in the last 20 years (three for myself, four for others), all rock solid, all silent, all easily surpassing the build quality of any Mac ever snapped (soldered back in the day 🤨) together on an assembly line, and none of the problems that Mac users refer to regarding PCs…and none of the problems that Mac users refer to regarding Macs.
However, to build workstations like this, it takes time for me to research the hardware components for almost every build since the tech changes so frequently. Also, Windows automatic updates has become a problem because it can no longer be easily deactivated, so I had to take time to learn how to do that.
Also, to keep them quiet, cool and easily upgradable, the case had to be much larger than any Mac so that’s a drawback and sometimes a dealbreaker for anyone with space issues.
So if I had more money than time, it would make sense to pay more and just go with a Mac. Or if I had more work than time, I would likely have no choice but to go with Mac or an equally expensive DAW-specific windows workstation from companies like ADK or SilentPC.
Unfortunately Windows laptops have fallen almost entirely from relevance, success stories are more miss than hit because of the scarcity of Intel USB 3 controllers on laptop motherboards, although thunderbolt may make that problem irrelevant now. Again, companies like ADK or SilentPC seem to have gotten around this.
@Vic LTD Yes and no! The SSD not being replacable/upgradable is a pain in the ass but the ram is so closely integrated with the CPU architecture on the Apple silicon that removing it would be impossible as it is literally in the die. Love it or hate it but this integration is the reason for the amazing results of the Apple M series processors.
@Vic LTD To be fair my Macs last way longer than any of my Windows PC's.
Thanks Dom, I have been a life long PC user before switching last year to a MB Pro. It’s true desktop PCs are completely able to do what Macs do when it comes to music production and most of the time PC laptops can too. I need my computer to do more than just music production so I have had to use laptops and I’ve had real problems at times with PC laptops, particularly after windows updates. My last (expensive) PC laptop simply stopped being able to run Cubase after one update and after months of reconfiguring the machine, updating ram and even buying a new interface out of sheer frustration (and hearing good things about the M1 Macs) I decided to switch to a MacBook Pro M1 Pro the month after it launched. It was a very expensive outlay for me (which I know not everyone can afford) a consideration that up to that point had really put me off Macs.
I was never a Mac fanboy but almost a year down the road I can honestly say that I still absolutely love this machine. It is completely unflappable and lightening fast whatever I throw at it. I have recently updated to CB12 which is amazing but for months I ran CB11 it in Rosetta and even this it was way more stable and quicker than the PC. I have run very large projects with high numbers of audio files and plugins and on a couple of occasions when exporting Files from Logic to Cubase I have been surprised to find later that I have accidentally had Logic and Cubase open at the same time with no apparent detriment to performance.
My conclusions:
- Is it expensive? - yes
- Does it do music production well? Yes better than any computer I have ever used before
- Is it overpriced? - yes if you can’t afford it but IMHO if you can afford it and need a new machine for music production, it is well worth it in terms of its cast iron stability and reliability.
For that reason over time I have found that it has paid for itself in the fact that always works, saves me time and lowers my frustration levels.
Windows Automatic Updates just enrages me. But it can be deactivated…just not easily unfortunately.
@@Nightowl427272 yes I learned that after the damage was done unfortunately!
@@thefunkfactory - Same…
@@stephen4625 - I assume that’s short for Windows Updates Blocker. Unfortunately there are a lot of apps with that name. Which one do you use?
I think it depends on the pc. I custom built my pc and I can easily keep up with these macs. I have ran 256 tracks at 128 sample rate, placed a convo reverb on every track, and hit record. 75 percent cpu usage. Ran it for 10 minutes with zero hiccups. This test was in PT. Keep in mind I built this PC 7 years ago. I have had zero issues with OS updates not working with plugins. I use Pro Tools, cubase, studio one, and reaper. Mainly PT and cubase. I can count on one hand the amount of crashes I've had on both daws combined in the last 7 years. You can hardly upgrade a mac, you can't repair them yourself for the most part, and for that you are pretty much pigeonholed immediately upon purchase. I love being able to upgrade my gpu when I want, upgrade my mobo or cpu when I want. Instead of buying a 3k-15k apple product that will be outdated in 10 years. PC is still king IMO. Too many limitations and walls to hurdle with Mac. I can also say that 99 percent of the issues I see posted on cubase forums, pt forums, etc are always mac related. I know more people use mac so that's part of it, but still. Why do so many people use it when it has so many issues. I know a top tier producer engineer that has like the 30k mac tower and he can't even open a session without it crashing. This is purely my experience. And btw, I own a mbp, an older one. I used to use my mbp for daily tasks and recording production. After switching to PC I have never been happier. No, PC isn't quite as good at video rendering, but I haven't used the rtx3080 gpu yet to test it.
I agree with you. I like the idea of repair something myself (not that I have needed to - but I can) I built my i9 64GIG ram Nvidea machine for around 1k maybe 3 years ago using Cubase. To get that performance on MAC I'd have to pay quarter to double the price.. for what? the look? When it comes to customisation, it has to be PC all the way, if Apple brought their prices down and you could customise I would concider. I still prefer Windows as an OS too, you simply can get more out of it. Only just though, MAC OS isnt actually too bad but not better.. I think thats the point. I disagree about the video rendering though I watched a video on RUclips several years ago and the PC did better than the MAC overall in an unbiased test "same spec" situation. However out of several tests the MAC did pull in a few victories but didnt win overall. Mind you this is just one plausable set up in the world. I do not video edit, so I can't refer to real world experience. An old producer freind had a MAC and had several crashes. To be fair though, if the machine was optimised I guess performance would be about the same as a PC and stable. I think there is a myth surrounding Apple that you dont need to do anything. All computers need to be optimised to your workflow and none are immune to potential viruses; but I cant rememeber the last time I had a virus on my PC? I dont see why generally some people think that this is a thing? perhaps a little in the mid 90's. But that was ages ago! Plus can you even use Unreal engine properly on a MAC? I mean that is the future! I am getting really into it.. and also who doesnt love a bit of gaming? I've never met a gamer using a MAC. I know it is a thing but I just havn't met one. I have met a lot of Music Producers using MAC though. I just never saw the appeal really, I dont think it fits my lifestyle. If people like the retina display spend the money on a retina monitor you get same result but it is pricey. I did actually have a MAC for a year or so back in maybe 2010 I genuiny thought, maybe I was wrong about what I was using to produce on. However I went back to PC, So it wasnt like I didnt try. Too many limitations and the price. Nah not for me. Whilst in this Video it did make me raise an eybrow I am intruiged to see what the price is, but porting everything over for something that I have been building since 1994 when I started using Windows and Cubase seems like a massive pointless chore now in 2022. And I work as a professional producer so I need a stable system. I am open for change but it needs to be better all round for me to swap again. Besides I am seeing the new GPU usage on the horizon so I think Performance upgrade isnt far behind for PC users either.
My experiences are similar to yours…it depends on the PC.
anyone with adecuate pc building and troubleshooting skills would prefer a pc over a mac, I can't seem to fix anything in mac os when it decides to crap on itself (more times than I can count) when I tinker with a pc really heavily things can go wrong but other than that pc's are just as stable as macs given all parts are working correctly.
Truth.
Macs are an emotional thing for folks lost in life needing to "belong"
But you get a sticker to put on your car.
I switched to Mac about 12 years a go and never looked back. Its just works! my last macbook pro I got in 2018. I love this computer but I wanted more processing power and eventually I got the Mac pro (very expensive) and that solved any problem I had and its a beast! I highly recommend. Thanks Dom for everything! keep doing a great job.
I switched from lifelong PC user to a MacBook a year and a half ago. I got the M1 13" MBP with 16gb of ram. Up until now it has been running great. A few tracks or a lot of tracks, and as many effects as I want, the laptop doesn't even blink. I do have to say that I still need to run my DAW in Rosetta mode, mainly because Native Instruments is not yet M1 native. But even in Rosetta it works great. I can use all the plugins that used to use on Windows, I did not loose anything. I was able to run my old projects on the new laptop (besides a sample that was missing here and there). It just took some days to getting used to the OS.
I was just watching your latest QBase 13 video and realized you finally switched over to the Mac. I just have to say one thing... Congrats and you’re welcome!👍🏾
Video starts at 12:27
Thanks 🍻
Thanks 👌🏼
I was a pc user from 1998 until 2006, then switched to mac once they transitioned to Intel CPU for good. A white macbook was with me everywhere. Studio, gigs, on the road. There was simply nothing for that price in the pc laptop world. As the years went by, I was going deeper and deeper the Mac world. Had macbook pros, mac pro, started collecting PPCs and then it happened. My machines were outdated, and my money was not enough 😒 to buy new ones. Software was going forward, specially OSX, and plugins with it. I couldn't update my OS and get the plugins that I wanted. I was satisfied with what I had, but I couldn't even run demos. I was feeling cut out, unless I paid for a new machine. That's when I went down the Hackintosh lane. Not perfect, a bit cheaper solution, but unfortunately not portable at all. Slowly, getting fed up with the constant OS maintenance of a "hacked" version of OSX, I slowly shifted back to Windows in 2020. It was a long ride with Apple, and I still have several machines in my collection, G3 and G4 towers and laptops, ibooks, macpros, all functional with ready to go audio recording software. Windows 10, is flexible and can run plugins 10 years old as well as new ones. I am happy to have made the change but.... I miss the simplicity and efficiency of a mac, but it's a cash eating monster.
Keep it up Dom. I hope that tape delay is still doing well 😉.
I have been a mac user now since 2004 , i changed because i was a logic user. I had years of using windows and had nothing but trouble audio clicks and pops , since switching to mac never had any problems . With the m1 I couldn’t be more happy they are well built and when i can afford it will upgrade mu intel imac. Keep up the good work!
always pc in my „case“…. musicproduction and gaming! peripheral ipads, iphones all over the place at my place! nice weekend! thanks for the vid!💥
Hey Dom, you are amazing in talking about music and your positive vibes are amazing. I write cinematic music on an iMac 2016 model with i5 intel and 12 Ram..... I have to say that i am really limited in what i can compose. I'm saving from my daily job for a MacBook 16'' pro with M1 pro 32gb and 4TB of SSD drive and YES i want to give this amount of money cause i believe in my skills, everyone of you guys in the comments should do the same. BELIEVE IN YOURSELF!!! Thanks a lot Dom
Dom, love your content. First time commenting. I switched from a PC to a Mac Studio and have had no issues other than plugin compatibility. The Mac Studio is completely quiet and projects that would choke my old PC (i7 3.5Ghz 64GB RAM, I know its a bit old) run at about 10%-15% user CPU on the Mac Studio. My main complaint would be having to get thunderbolt docks or adapters for connectability, where on my PC other than a few powered Anker USB docks I didn't have to spend much. My monitors were all HDMI so I had to get a thunderbolt dock and a thunderbolt to two HDMI connector from OWC. I am currently running Cubase 12 in rosetta mode for some plugin compatibility so I expect that when those plugins are native (cough cough Native Instruments) my performance will be even better. Thanks again for all your content!
Thanks for sharing John! Good to hear the Studio is quiet for you! That’s really encouraging !
I have both. PC in Studio. An maximal overclocked I9-7940X, 64 gb, with watercooling. No noise. Love the performance. Never had problems. But in the end a 5k €. My MacBook m1 max was about the same price and has roughly 30% better performance. As my main pc is so tightly connected and does the job I will use it till it dies, but there is simple no reason for investing 10k € in two computers when it all can be done with one. I would go with a Mac in the future.
My M1 mac studio is a beast. I love it. If the thing dies on me 6 months after applecare expires, ask me again if I love it.
Have you discovered the beauty that is the apple composite audio device? You can join two 8 channel audio interfaces into a single 16 channel audio interface in mac os. It's a killer feature.
Shots fired, Microsoft.
Just ordered my MBP a bit ago. Always been a PC user prior, but going to a laptop setup was always my goal. Dpc issues and bloatware plagued every windows laptop I tried, but this time I am feeling insanely confident with what these new macs can do!!
How do you like it?
@@sterling-beats I love it. Now that a lot of plugins have gone native, everything is working really good. Still some 3rd party plugs that may crash cubase every now and then, but I've been slowly cutting those plugs out or been using them sparingly when needed. And the speed of doing things is great. Rendering in place and exports are swift and the workflow is snappy. I did have to learn some of the shortcuts again coming from PC, but it was pretty quick.
I bought a Macbook pro a few years ago to see what the fuss was all about. I found the old saying that switching from PC to Mac was like moving to a foreign country but not being able to speak the language. The Mac was just all backwards compared to Windows for me. After a couple of years with the Mac being used as a paperweight and a dust catcher, I sold it with no regrets.
Im still using W7 and it works great on 2011 HP Z800 Dual hexcores. I have 3 machines with 72 gigs of ram in each. 1 for main DAW ( Cubase ) and the other 2 are servers that handle all the CPU hungry VSTi's using Audiogridder and Vienna Ensemble Pro. Im running a MOTU Audio card and 4 - 24 i/o breakout boxes for 96 TRS ins and outs, at a buffer setting of 64 and it will also do 32 if I need it to. Bottom line, the system isnt broken. It works well so for me, theres no point in spending any amount of money to get newer computers to give me what I already have, and that is a working Cubase 10.5 set up to produce songs and Premiere to make videos. Im 67 now and Ive been thru the "shiny object syndrome" stuff when it comes to modules, and outboard gear. New gear if fun but if the system you have is doing the job and is making you money, then why do you need to upgrade to a new anything, when six months down the road something more powerful will be out and what you just upgraded to, is yesterdays news?
The best system is the one that works well enough for you. If its doin the job, great. If not upgrade. I just priced out the new MacBook pro 16" with the M1 pro chip and its $100 more than I paid for my three HP machines total. New, the HPs were over $10k each when they first came out, but I bought them refurbished a few years after they were new. Theyre industrial grade servers and designed to be run hard, 24/7. I dont run them near that hard. They still have more than enough horsepower to rum Cubase and Adobe Premiere for me without breaking a sweat. Your mileage may vary. Do you believe that having a new machine that goes a Gazillion miles an hour is gonna impress the clientele or is the quality of your finished production gonna do that? Remember, all of the work you admire from other producers was all done on old outdated tech. Its not the clubs...its the golfers skill with those old clubs that makes the difference.
Your mileage may vary...
Voice of reason
Hi Dom - looks like a lot of us are taking the plunge on the M1. Just watched Guy Michelmore's video doing the same. I started my conversion to the M1 Pro two weeks ago (MacBook Pro 16). Kind of painful with some of the VSTs and having to load everything again. Hoping the AXR4 h/w control becomes native soon (Halion 6, Komplete Control, etc.). Looking forward to watching your journey and learning! UF8 review soon? I won't consider buying until it get's the Dom stamp of approval : )
UF8 against the Softube Console 1 and Fader.... no contest. The Softube controllers win hands down.
I switched to Mac in late 2008, and couple of years later somehow caught myself that all my serious (paid) work is being done on Mac. :) It just works. I press power button, launch Nuendo, Logic or PT, whatever I need right now, and just do my daily job. I'm a long time PC user either, and I believe that Windows has made a long way. W7, 10 and 11 are pretty usable and solid. Hell, even 8.x was a pretty nice OS, not even mention good old XP. But when it comes to comfort and reliable ecosystem - IMHO Mac is absolute winner, it fits like a gloove. The only downside is Apple with their terrible, but well deserved reputation.
I swapped from PC to a Mac this year and will never look back. I was running an i9 9900k and it would complain using the granular engine on Omnisphere, not so with the Mac. It hasn't missed a beat since I got it and throughly enjoyed the experience so far.
Hey Adrian--just curious as I'm in need of an upgrade--been on pc for years--did you go M1? Studio or laptop? Cubase or other DAW?
@@Jursorama I went for the studio 64gb version and 1TB internal drive. I plug in a black magic SSD docking station to expand storage to 8TB all SSD. Works a charm and stuck with Cubase, currently Pro 12.
If you need to know anything else feel free to drop me an e-mail through my website.
I just read some articles about Hans Zimmer. He uses both Macs and PCs, but he does carry his Macbook Pro around with him everywhere. He also uses Cubase and ProTools. Cubase is his "go-to" Daw for music creation, then uses ProTools to combine music with video production. Interestingly he uses 2 Native Intruments midi keyboards and an upright acoustic piano for his live concert, "Pirates of the Caribbean." I thought he might be using NI software but he swears by a company called Zebra by u-he, to get sounds like no other.
u-he is the company. Zebra is the product. He also heavily uses Waldorf synths.
I have a mac mini M1 with cubase 1 year ago and it works perfectly without a cubase 12 pro rosette. And fl in its latest versions works perfect, I also have a number of plugins and they work perfectly. Highly recommended since its workflow is smooth and fast. Incredible.
I’m anxiously awaiting for them to put the M3 chip in a Mac mini to create a new music production machine.
With the Mac mini, you can use any keyboard, track pad, mouse, and monitor that you like.
I plan on using all my current Apple stuff and some other monitor which I will mount on the wall w an arm.
I’m super open to suggestions on the monitor and the mounting assembly.
Once I hear some performance numbers from music production, then I’ll decide whether I’m gonna stick with the into or go for the M3.
The PC just works for me, I always have and I just can't seem to justify the extra cost for the purchase of a mac, notwithstanding the higher price for plugins, having to buy extra gadgets, also being stuck with their proprietary products, etc...
And yet … I guarantee if and when you upgrade to Apple you will be kicking yourself why you didn’t make the jump years ago? If that wasn’t true, then it wouldn’t even be a debate. Unfortunately, it is true.
@@79Glitch I tried and came back to PC because of the cost and proprietary products. The reason I went back to PC is because the Mac was becoming outdated, and I really couldn't upgrade it with the equipment I had. Now I have had the same PC for 8 years upgrading components as I go until the motherboard doesn't support newer processors.
@@79Glitch I jumped from macOS to Windows and never looked back. RME RayDat. Zero issues. 0.7ms latency.
Was planning on making this switch 2 years ago when I bought a 16-inch Macbook pro with the M1 Max processor, then I ran into some unexpected difficulties.
First of all, my current interface runs on a Firewire connection (and it works great with my PC). The new Macbook’s only have Thunderbolt 4, and there are NO interfaces (as of Sept 2023) that use that format. So either I have to buy a TB3 interface (very few options and very expensive!), or set up an elaborate string of adaptors to continue using my Firewire interface (adaptors into adaptors into adaptors = signal degradation between interface and DAW)
Second, the MacBook Pro has no standard USB ports, meaning you have to add the additional cost of a hub if like most people you have 1 or more midi devices that use standard USB.
The Macbook Pro is a monster of a platform, but it really shortchanges musicians by creating this interconnect limitation.
It was all about the convenience which pushed me entirely into Mac for music production and more. No need for additional installations for physical equipment, no need for constant troubleshooting and more, just plug and play!
M1 Pro is what I ended up getting and it's perfect, especially with the high impedance headphone port built in which meant I can finally produce on the train from Bournemouth to London without needing a pre-amp for my 250ohm headphones.
Dom, thank you again. I have to say you have always been patient with me, (especially when I make the live show where you answer in the comments), and NOT ONE TIME have you ever given me bad advice.
Again, thank you.
❤️❤️❤️ you’re welcome Ted :)
I recently bought a laptop because I travel so much. I read about these new Macbooks and saw some music related reviews. They sounded impressive. But the price soon put me off… I’m running a home built PC that is now 7 years old and it’s still going great. For the money that I saved by buying a capable, but not so expensive, laptop, instead of a MacBook Pro, I now have enough money to build a new mega PC when I eventually need to replace my existing beast, or more libraries, gear, whatever. The point is, I retained more money to spend on other things. The quietness of the MacBook is definitely a winner for us muso’s though. That would be a strong plus.
I think this has improved, when I switched to the Mac M2, _all_ plug-ins worked and were available as native VST3 versions. For some very old plugins there is a option with metaplugin, so even some very old ArtsAcoustic plugins work, as well as NI's discontinued Absynth.
The performance of Cubase 13 is amazing. No Windows PC can keep up at the moment, especially: whisper quiet! Personally, I find MacOS much better than Windows... and I've been an absolute PC fanboy since Windows 3.1 (so over 30 years). Apple with the M1/M2/M3 etc. is brilliant, especially for musicians.
Gone M1 Mini. £600 refurbished and simply works. Yes a couple of things are not available I.e. halion full version but, and it's a big one.... it is unbelievable how well this little vox works. Been Windows since forever but now.... I am sold.
If anyone missed it, a company finally working on utilizing the GPU’s processing power on PCs and that is probably a game changer.
Yes, a virtually zero latency pc for music production will be here soon
It will be both amazing and a compatibility nightmare for years.
@@csdstudio78 I just checked the name of the company, it is simply called GPU Audio and they had some small demo at NAMM 22. The concept looks extremely good but I understand your concerns. Also, knowing that VST developers are still not interested even in multicore processing (at this point it's kinda ridiculous) I have the same thoughts about big developers jumping on the GPU idea.
@@tmxband Try the beta.
I don't see the value of switching from PC to macOS nowadays. When MAO became a thing a long time ago, MAC was the valuable computer to run a DAW with stability. Nowadays, PC and MAC are neck to neck. So the only question is for what utility ? For homestudio only ? For the stage ? Or for both ? And the answer to that question will led the end result in my opinion. :)
I think that if you're a hobbyist, PC is great. If you're working professionally, then you need to evaluate the options every time you need to update your PC. Being loyal to Mac or PC makes no sense- get the one that fulfills your needs ;)
@@DomSigalas 100% agree. But as a PC user, the reevaluation is less painful than MAC since the past years. But I'm very impressed with what you said about the M1. A person who will decided to start with the M1 for music production, will be confident enough to stay on it for years
I’d like to see a real world comparison of your PC vs the Mac running Rosetta. In most cases Rosetta still out performs other options. So I’d be really curious to see it compared
You got it- I want to see some more plugins gain compatibility to do a real-world test!
As an M1 Mac Studio MAX owner, I can say that I haven’t been able to break it yet with any session or VI plug-in. It was worth the cash and as a former (recent) PC user, I much prefer OSX. Core Audio is so much smoother and fluid than dealing with ASIO drivers on the PC side.
@@terrygray7465 agreed 100%
Not a chance. As an engineer who has had to deal with overpriced, under-engineered Apple hardware designed for failure and obsolescence, I enjoy extending the life of my PC by replacing parts ad-hoc from any manufacturer I choose. Apple products are designed to be next to impossible to service, they want you to use it for a few years, throw it in the trash and buy another new, overpriced piece of Apple gear. What? Your Apple gear is still running after four years? No problem, they'll issue a new OS that makes your hardware incompatible, forcing you to upgrade yet again.
No thank you.
I see your point Scott and that's why my main system has always been a PC for over two decades now. BUT, I have a few big but's:
1. If you are working as a professional with tight deadlines and your PC breaks, you are in serious trouble. I had it happen to me in the past when I was working on a National Geographic show and it really almost caused me to lose the gig. I just couldn't source the parts to repair it
2. I am sick and tired of the constant DPC spikes with the AMD and NVidia graphic cards. I know the person who writes all the PC -related articles on Sound On Sound and he is still baffled by these issues. Even on my own PC I have to compromise on how I setup my screens in case I bother the precious NVidia drivers. No problems like this on the Mac
3. For creative purposes and for video editing Final Cut Pro smokes every single other NLE out there. For pro work I use DaVinci but I've never seen a PC render a video so lightening fast like FCP on a basic model Mac. It's just night a day... and I happen to do a lot of video ;)
4. Airdrop is something that PC users have never tried and they cannot appreciate. Windows have to up their game on their OS.
5. Yes, for quite a few years both PCs and Macs have been using similar components. Not anymore. And M1s can render a full 4K video without even spinning the fan or draining your battery. This is remarkable
6. I had extremely good experience with Apple when it comes to support and after sales care. I still have a 2015 Macbook Pro and works flawlessly. I think some of the things people assume when they hear "Apple" are not fully true anymore
Yes, Macs are overpriced but in my opinion the only thing that remains overpriced is the ridiculous prices for the M2 storage and RAM. And yes, non being able to upgrade sucks big time!
And all this from a PC guy
@@DomSigalas I'll give you the POV from the other side of the fence. I was a very happy Mac user for many years. When you have a problem though here in Liverpool and Manchester, the Apple Stores tell you to come back in several days to weeks once they've sourced replacement components for your non-standard highest-specced machines, which they don't tend to carry in-store, and need to be ordered online, and they generally can't replace them same-day and you need to go back once again on the following day. That's a very expensive, time-consuming problem to have when I've got better things to be doing than farting around in Apple Stores waiting for Doris to have her iPhone battery fixed. That almost lost me a gig too.
Meanwhile, I could have same-day'd or next-day'd PC components, or picked them up in-person, and have been back up and running again. That kept happening with Macs. The reliability and QA has gone rapidly downhill since Steve Jobs passed.
Sourcing PC components isn't hard, and pros should have spares, and ideally a B rig for if the shit hits the fan, not a knock against you, just been there, got the t-shirt, now learned from past mistakes, now have spares, have a B rig, don't use Macs anymore, they're too impractical to get fixed, at least here in Liverpool, Manchester and occasionally Berlin.
Sure, it's interesting, but fan-noise isn't an issue if you're keeping your computers in another room, and you can even buy PC cases that are passively cooled with zero fans if someone doesn't have the luxury of space.
I just switched to PC from Mac last year because my Mac is an old 2015 mid MBP and don't have the money to upgrade lol. Still using macbook for daily life but making music mainly on PC.
U did not make the wrong decision by switching to pc especially because Microsoft has the market share ruclips.net/video/OcL932W6E1w/видео.html
Recently started using (for mobile work out of the studio) an Asus Duo laptop. Twin touch screens and TB4 for the Apollo. Win11 and Cubase run perfectly. Touch screens are great for quick adjustments.
Thank you Dom.
I agree with mostly all you have said here in this video.
I bought the 16” M1 MacBook Pro Max in January 2022 with the 64gb ram & the 32 GPU.
Besides Rosetta & some plugin compatibility issues this thing is a beast!
It is an awesome performer.
Your video here shares a lot of my experience & opinions of how I feel about my time with the Apple M1/silicon.
I still have my Intel desktop.
It works great.
I’ve never owned a laptop before until January 2022.
I am very impressed with M1 MacBook Pro Max.
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, opinions, advice & experiences with the M1 MacBook Pro Max.
Great video! I'm definitely a PC guy keeping his eyes open with this. However being a gamer usually keeps me on the PC side of things. But a macbook pro may be in my future. Looking forward to your future videos on this topic.
I would never buy a macbook the vast majority of people are using PCs
ruclips.net/video/OcL932W6E1w/видео.html
Wow, Mister Dom, you are reading my mind. That is exact what I’m deciding about. Thanks. Waiting for continue
I already switched to Mac Studio. Running Cubase 12 pro with full version Komplete 13 and a bunch of Ni vst plug insThat I purchased separately, It works like a champ. I love it. Thanks Dom for a great video as always.
how about HW-like interfaces, midi keyboards? I think of Mac Studio too, but I use URC44C and NI KK61 and CC121 Controller and I am afraid of getting into trouble, not to mention being forced to use Rosseta for god knows how long
I have been mainly using Mac for a long time for music production. I am currently using Reaper. I was a huge Logic user for a long time. For a cupple of months, because of Logic acting weird and slowing stuff down, I decided to switch to Windows and try it out. While I enjoyed it really much, in my opinion, I really couldn't see myself using it long term. There are things that I can do on my Mac that Windows doesn't do... or if it does, its hard to do those things. One example is routing audio between apps. On the Mac, its really easy with a software called Loop Back. On Windows, there are options, but its really hard to get that up and running. Also, when it comes to Asio on Windows, you can't use another device for sending the output of whatever you are doing to a different device. On Mac, you can easily set up things where you have your audio interface as your input, then your headphones or whatever you have as the output.
Anyway, sorry for the rant, but in conclusion, I'm going to be switching back to Mac. I still have my Mac Studio, and it still works fantastic!
Loopback and Audio Hijack are the best apps ever!
Cubase lacks only one thing: a real full screen as offered on all other applications in the world! Just a click on green button for a total screen mode that hide dock and window bar and menu. I don't know why Steinberg still continue to not work on this also in Cubase 13.
Hey Dom, Great Video! I am in the market for a new laptop and I was thinking about the MacBook M1 Pro for music production, but I am scared to pull the trigger on it. Let us know how it goes!
My 'producing music on computer' experience goes back to Amigas and Atari's. I've owned and used both PCs and Mac's since then. For a number of reasons, in around 2012 the cost/performance ratio of using Mac's No longer made sense to me. I dropped Mac's then and haven't looked back... until the M1 arrived. Now, I'm looking back. I'm with Dom here: it isn't quite time yet to go back. I'm getting old enough now, that I may never go back. ...and I'll still be happy.
This is literally the perfect video for me, as I will be switching to a Macbook soon.
I one hundred percent confirm the enormous frustration anyone who attempts audio production on a windows laptop will have. I had to return / resell 50 % of the windows laptops I've bought over the last ten years due to audio glitching. I can add Dell, Razer and Huawei to that list of yours. Lenovo seems to work all right, although I've always found them to be loud as hell. Mine is huffing like a bull as I am typing this, even though Chrome is the only thing I am running....
Microsoft has the market share
ruclips.net/video/OcL932W6E1w/видео.html
I am a PC user! I will never switch, simply for one reason and one reason only. While i have no doubt that macs are very good in their own right, in my opinion they are massively OVERPRICED!!!! So, no i would not switch. I WOULD TEST their abilities if i got my hands on a freebie, but, obviously that won't happen. Lol
You don't have to switch! Keep in mind that I'm also a PC user but I am also doing video professionally so Mac makes sense for me in that regard. If I could have both my video and audio system in one machine then there's a happy Dom :) Not yet though!
We need an objectiv deffinition of "overpricing". 😉 $/flops? Flops/$?
I’ve just got myself a Mac Mini M1 16gb, and it’s stunning. And that’s coming from a Windows fanboy. 😎👍
Traditionally I would always have agreed with you. I've always been PC for that reason. But the M1 chip has changed everything and you'd pay the same price for a PC with the same power, if you could find a windows laptop with this power for music production.
So I'm switching to Mac for the first time ever... Help haha!
I would agree with you in a heartbeat before they released M1 but, the m1 are absolutely worth the money, you can get $5000 Mac Pro levels of performance for $999 for a MacBook Air m1. This is coming from a windows fanboy, was using windows for decades but man these m1 macs really changed my life, beats my $4000 Alienware laptop in terms of music production performance and stability
No no no!!! The way is to switch back or to Windows! That's the way!!
Thanks for that video mate. I had to switch from my pc to a mobile pc. I have tried 3 different windows highend laptops in the last time. Compared, watched tons of review videos before buying. Problems here and there. And the machines were so loud because of the fans. So my last one was a lenovo thinkpad p14s with an amd ryzen 6850u, 32gb ram, and 1tb fast ssd. The machine run my biggest project. But man, the fans screaming, the laptop got hot on the surface and the overall build quality was feeling cheap. Now, I "downgraded" to a macbook air m2 with 16gb ram and 512gb ssd. And damn. That machine runs so fast even without fans. What you didnt mention in your video. The m-processors need a lot less watts then the intels or amds and deliver still better performance. That are all points that justify the higher price.
Very much the same opinion, for mobile production, Macbook M1s are great, as well as for live DJ/DAW performance modes. Windows is good for studio production and will save budget savvy folks some coin. I am waiting for the Mac mini M2 to be released, the way the processor handles RAM management means that a 16GB MAC M series will give most folk all they need for visual and audio production (unless you really want to break the bank with the MAC studio, a little overkill though IMO). Great video as always Dom.
The thing that keeps me using PCs is repairs and upgrades. I think it's what keeps alot of people on PC. If there is a problem I can just replace the faulty component or if a better part becomes available I can just swap it out. Macs are usually glued shut these days and not repairs friendly.
I see where you’re coming from Fret, but this is what happened to me in the past: I was scoring a National Geographic series with super tight deadline: my PC stopped working midway through. In the end I realized it was the mobo. No matter what, I could not replace it for a two year old PC- the part wasn’t available and there if I changed mobo that would mean a Windows re-installation.
Meanwhile with MacBooks , whenever I had something break, Apple would just fix it. No questions asked. And if it was something on their side (e.g. problematic logic boards), they would replace it even years after warranty had expired. And if you ever need to get a replacement Mac you can always run your old operating system from an external SSD or even time machine it to the new computer. This is something that I’ve been waiting for decades to happen on PC-land. If you use your machine professionally, you either need a good company that makes PCs and has your back (I use Scan) or have a second PC duplicate in case things go south, or well… maybe a Mac ;)
@@DomSigalas it does help that I have a few friends who build PCs and whenever anything goes wrong I can get it fixed on the spot 😊
@@DomSigalas why would you need a new windows install for a faulty mobo? just plug the drive in the new one and let it update the drivers for the new thing
@@xxlintux been there done this before. You get all sorts of glitches and BSODs when doing this. If you try to do this on a professional studio with deadlines you might as well close your business down 😀
@@fretclimber7874 oh I can fix PCs. But if I’m working 14 hrs a day on my actual work (music) if I start fixing PC issues I might as well become an IT guy :) in a professional studio you need something that gives you the shortest downtime possible. I am not exaggerating by saying that studios that use PCs buy all the parts twice when they buy their computer for redundancy. And this makes it a more expensive business than buying a Mac 😂
I started on the Digital Performer DAW in the year 2001 with a Mac G4. My mentor-- a pro TV composer at the time- used the same system, but they switched to Logic on PC's because they could build them and save $. Then Logic was discontinued for PC and they turned to Cubase and then Nuendo. I didn't want to switch till I needed a new CD burner (ha!) that would cost me $300... and upgrading to a Mac g5 would have cost me nearly 5k. But I eventually did it since my mentor could continue teaching me. So in the years after I switched to Cubase SX (haha) on PC, I've built a new state of the art computer every 6 to 8 years for $1500 to $2k. Massive savings and more power every time. The PC programs had some drawbacks and were over complicated at first, but the power I got was better than what I could afford on Mac. Most hi level pros have both in some form-- especially since video editing is part of the game these days. But I've found PC's make me understand the computer better. Macs are beautiful, but they hide what's under the hood. And repair/upgrade costs were huge. Anyway, great video. Just my $0.02. 😉
I'm on the fence switching to an M1 or M2 when it comes out, can't wait to see what your conclusion looks like.Thanks and keep it up!
Thank you. I have the same question, but I've never used a Mac. I will look forward to the results. In the meantime I will watch your videos that are coming out ; )
Thank you for doing this! I have always wanted to see what the Mac system would be like and I'm sure with how deep you dive it will be incredibly clear as to what things to expect if switching.
I have a Mac Studio and I love it. It's not absolutely noiseless like the Mac Mini m1 is, which I also have, but it's a really powerful and quite machine.
The problem with Macs as a music pro is the lack of sufficient usb ports. I have a Presonus 32s a Moog Sub Phatty ,Moog Sub 37 ,Auturia minibrut 2 Deepmind 12,Elektron Digitat, Digitone Auturia drumbrut,Roland TR8s etc. Not posable to connect all at once to a mac. A PC no problem
Good point. I have 7 hardware devices on my Windows laptop essential to my live performances and all perform perfectly
I don't like laptops for studio use. I'm good with my Cubase on a Gaming pc. It works just fine. I'm never going to changing to Mac
I just decided to switch from Mac to a PC and ordered nearly 4k€ beast (i9, 64 gigs DDR5, 4 EVOs). Please don't make me regret :D
The future will not be company specific.
I meant that these machines are going to be widely supported eventually- I am looking forward to see the response from the PC side for sure :)
Many thanks for this👍 I'm really looking forward to your next videos😊
Hi Dom, I post comments very rarely so I take this opportunity to tell you how much I appreciate your channel and the energy, the passion, the good vibes you put into it. I learned a lot thanks to you and I also ruined myself a lot thanks to you :)
I can comment a bit with my own experience. I switched to the M1 platform almost a year ago when Cubase and the vast majority of plugin editors did not yet support it. I had bet on the fact that the support would be quite fast. I know, I played a bit with fire... Today things are quite different, I could actually use my new MacBook Pro as my main workstation, but… there is Universal Audio. As you may know Steinberg supports Apple silicon only for the VST3 standard. UA officially supports Apple Silicon but they still haven't made the transition to VST3 (released 14 years ago). In my whole bank of plugins (Plugin Alliance, Arturia, Waves, Eventide, Native Instruments, Spectrasonics, Baby Audio, Fabfilter, Soundtoys, Valhalla, Softube, Output, Toontrack...), UA is the only one that prevents me to use Cubase in native mode. Even Soundtoys, a genial editor, but not known as the most prolific and reactive one out there, released a VST3 version of its plugins two weeks ago! It's quite frustrating especially since UA technical support doesn't want to communicate about a possible roadmap for VST3 support. I was aware of the risks though. Let’s just hope for the best!
Hi Dom, I met you many years ago at the olympia and you've got me into cubase even though I 'm not a musician. The thing is I bought a cubase and composed some tunes and now I'd like to meet you again for you to produce one of my tunes, of course we'll discuss your fee.
I switched to an Imac in 2012 to replace my custom Alienware pos and it was the best decision I ever made. Never had a crash on my mac which is still going strong even though I can no longer update the operating system. 🤪 I’ll probably upgrade to a new system within the year even though I don’t need to.😂
Hi Dom, just upgraded to the Mac Studio base model, running Cubase 12 with zero issues. I have not heard the fans kick on once with the studio.
It's actually quieter than the M1 Mini
Thanks. The standard RAM is not going to cut it if you're streaming multiple, large sample libraries. You need 32GB to BEGIN with really. Some of the newer libraries are EXTREMELY memory intensive.
PC with Cubase since 1996, then Studio One. No need to blow a ton of money for Mac!
I even run studio one on a bare bones laptop. I put an ssd in the laptop, and the only problem is that I can't increase the memory, or change the cpu so once I add a bunch of plug-ins, the system maxes out. With a few plug-ins I have run 75 audio tracks on this budget PC.
Absolutely no need for a Mac for me.
Pcs are better ruclips.net/video/OcL932W6E1w/видео.html
I think even with Rosetta enabled the new macs are still way faster. The only issue is if you have plugins, that are not silicone ready, then it is better to run it in Rosetta, is what I have been told, that's where it feels like it's slowing down if you try to run plugins that are not compatible yet. I'm getting an m1 in a months time, I've been informed to run everything in rosetta and not try to run native yet and the machine is then super fast.
I got the m1pro 16” in December. Personally I don’t run Cubase in native mode due to plug-in compatibility and because well….I don’t feel like Cubase struggles under Rosetta so…. Love having a laptop though, getting so much more done.
I haven't watched yet but this is SO relevant. Thanks Dom! As always, on point... BOOM!💣🤯
Thanks for this video Dom 🙏 I am in a similar boat 😄But as a hobbyist I am taking it real slow. I am also giving Logic Pro a try before dropping all my Cubase stuff on there.
just got the m2 MacBook Air, no need for the pro its so powerful
2:58 Windows 11 is great. Only issue I have is with OneDrive but I just disabled it.
You really got my attention with this one Dom ! I'm in the market for a PC - always been a PC user, but I'm very curious about apple/M1 performance. Really looking forward to the follow up videos and seeing how it all works out for you. One last thing - I'm still using an 11 year old i7 PC - and it does everything I need, as I bounce ideas and don't rely (like I used to years ago) on having tonnes of plugins going at once - I like the commit to audio approach, and it saves you a headache for opening old projects years later ! Will be watching out for your updates - Regards from Dublin Ireland !
Not necessary to get macs cos of performance with the new windows devices running p series intel
I thought I would never leave PC but since I switched to MacBook Pro M1 16 inches I'm going back to PC laptops.
I still use PC as my second system.
Since win 10 it's super stable. 7950x will drop this year 5.7ghz across all cores for a few grand it's perfect 🙏
Been a PC user since the 90s. Tried switching to Mac, it's powerful but way to expensive. ...but the main reason I've returned to PC is all the hazzle with Mac. Half of the plugins didn't work or acted weird 🤥. Havn't made a proper test but my new I9 with ddr5 seems even more powerful than the Mac. AND I can game on it🤩
My home setup will always be PC because I also need to edit videos and game. The laptop setup is up in the air today.
You know what's better than switching?
Switching back!
I got a good laugh at my peers when they cried because the Arch/Eng industry doesn't use mac.
Macs are for feeble-minded hacks.
A simple machine like the M1 mac mini 16 gb version can run a ton of plug ins (including omnisphere, nexus, spitfire symphonic strings). I have a project in logic that has over 200 tracks and it deals with it as if it is nothing. It is incredibly affordable and super fast and stable. Can't ask for more from a computer I guess.
That's a very interesting story for anyone looking to buying a Mac. Can I ask if 16gb was good enough for the 200+ track project and how much of extra gb room you had when you were working on it? (and I want to kindly ask you how many vsti you had in the project without rendering them, or how many instances of those CPU intense plugins you can load in your Mac system without causing any issues😆)
@@DycayBeats Lemme say that the 240 track project had 60 % audio tracks and 40 % software instrument tracks. And in that 40 % software instrument tracks, at least 50 % of them were really intensive plug ins like Omnisphere and Spitfire symphonic strings.
@@siddharth_r1 Wow that's remarkable. Thanks for the relply! I suppose even the M1 macbook air is overkill for most bedroom producers and I don't even need the M1 Max or better ones😀(Considering I use an intel 8th gen i7 CPU on the highest buffer size and runs out of resources really quickly😅)
@@DycayBeats Yes. The M1s are amazing. The max chip is mainly for 3d intensive processes like rendering as it has a 32 core gpu while maintaining the same 10 core CPU as the pro chip. Meaning it won’t create a huge jump in performance for audio production when compared to the m1 pro chip. And as you said, the MacBook Air with 16 gb ram is still an over kill for many.
38 years on Mac. Windows 22H2 BSOD. sick of Windows 11 drivers. I am switching to Mac 100%. Just ordered Mac studio
I'm too poor to even know what a Rosetta is. Windows, Mac.. Whatever helps you make music. Having the best specs or the lowest latency won't help you if you don't release music. Use whatever works for you.
Windows user since...3.1. I AVOIDED Windows 8 by buying a Mac Pro (this was in 2012). Very nice machine but...I couldn't get used to how restrictive file management was compared to Windows. I know people who prefer it but for me, I still preferred Windows to work in and kept Win7 on my desktop machine for years. Every musician I know running MBPs complains when the OS updates and breaks compatibility with their DAW/software instruments/something else. My planned "transfer music making to Apple" didn't happen.
Most branded consumer PC laptops are full of bloatware and poor components it seems. I have a good Dell bought 2 years ago which cost a 3rd of what the equivalent MBP cost at the time. And a spec'ed up bespoke PC both running W10 - which is less than perfect, absolutely.
NOW, assuming more devs jump to support M1, I can see Apple making Windows laptops almost obsolete. They're not for me yet but hey, maybe next time either machine dies, I'll try again.
There is not much communication about this but, few M1 series had many problems (hardware and software ecosystem wise), and for a software developer, it was not ready for a long time (at least about a year), and it may be still not "production ready" in 2023; so this is a no go for both sound mix/master and software development. In principle the M1 seems to be a very good thing, but in the end, it's mainly the ecosystem (other hardware, software, *maintenance & support* , updates, security, reliability...) that matters. When the M1 will be a stable and better supported ecosystem, I may consider it, esp. for the compute power/electrical power ratio, silence etc.
Switching from Mac to PC was one of the best decisions I made.
I’m actually happy just running Cubasis 3 on a M1 iPad.
one remark, with "core audio" the only difference in performance depends on the number of i/o (bandwidth) so you will not get better performance with external audio interface compared to the internal. "scan audio" wrote about this in length.
Hmmm... Interesting! On my tests here the latency performance was definitely better with an external Audio interface...Could you share that resource please? I am really interested in it.
@@DomSigalas tried to find it but i couldn't and got lost :) it was mentioned on some test but i can't remember the details, if you have a chance to ask him where it is i will be happy for a link, cheers!
I used to have an ol' trusty 2012 MBP for music production and personal use, and a desktop PC for games and engineering related software that wasn't available for Mac (also had a windows virtual machine installed in the mac to carry such software elsewhere). Once new macs started to come without ports, I just sold mine and bought an ASUS laptop. A 2-grand PC has better specs than a 2-grand MBP, and better connectivity. There's nothing in music production you can't do in Win10, all DAWs and plugins support it, the performance is excellent, stable and snappy, and I don't have to separate my activities in different machines anymore. I often work in large scoring sessions with lots of VSTi, lots of audio tracks and a video track, and 3 screens. I'm never going back to apple.
Can we get the stress test project please - I doubt your info is correct - I think we need to let the community test this as hard drives etc. will influence audio performance a lot. Can you give more information on the stress test ?
the "problem" with cubase in m1 native mode is that developers not only need to have m1 natively but also vst3, which some well known vendors didn't have until a few weeks ago, xfer and a few others are still in beta or even alpha stage. however, i run 300+ tracks in m1 with loads of vst and vsti's and my maxed out 14" runs extremely good. antares (codemeter) causes problems. they're on it tho.
My Mac Studio Max machine has been a dream machine for music prod. Awesome. The 2019 16" Intel i9 MBP was a nightmare.
I’ll stick to Mac ! Jumped from 2011 Mac book pro to M1 2020 MacBook Air.. and I’m VERY happy ! VERY
The Mac studio noises are isolated. I would t worry. Get one if you need it.
Thing is, PC has been getting better and better for music production for years now and will only really get better as there will always be more finance collectively behind it. And it will always be more cost effective and edge others with more software. Even if Mac has a few perks which make some things run better, it has never been enough for me to justify being stuck into its eco system and spending more money on it. If your going to learn music production then learning how to get the best out of a PC is hardly going to top the shit you need to learn.
One thing to note about the Mac. OS updates can break your plugins and your software. This is a major issue and almost never happens on windows. It's probably the worst part of my experience switching to the Mac. You basically cannot update your OS if you want a stable system.
I've been using Windows my entire life. Since the times when I could only use pirated software versions and low quality components. For about 15 years now I use only original software, components of the best quality, assembled with specialized technicians. But I never got to the point of having full functionality. Always dealing with little problems that pop up here and there from time to time.
Based on my many years of experience with my iPhones and iPads, I decided to buy a Mac Mini M1 16Gb a year ago. I don't want to be an Apple funboy, but I have to admit, it's magnificent. Everything works perfectly. Other than the performance, it beats my 32Gb Ram i7 9700 PC with the greatest ease. Dead silent. And, in my opinion, cheap for what it offers.
It is a pity that this is so, because in my country Apple products are a small fortune. Windows has served me (and still does) for decades. But as long as I have the financial means, Windows as my main music production computer never again.
Hey Dom. I would be interested to see from film composing point of view how you find ram usage of kontslt and sample libraries etc. there’s not much out there on that but film composers tend to need lots of RAM.
Well Dom... very convincing and persuasive video including all the "caveat"... BUT:
1) the overall cost/benefit is still on the PC side;
2) the hardware customization/upgrading is still on the PC side, better: is a big no no in the Mac;
3) the bigest and fastest internal M2 drive expansion/upgrading is still on the PC side.
All this with some of my beloved old plugins incompatibility make me stay on the PC side for a while.
Well... unless we are talking about "mobility" only... and in this case... yeah the newest Mac Pro are a no brainer solution!
This is indeed a very personal thing. But from my perspective as of this moment:
1. Mac mini and entry level Mac studios are amazing machines that will outperform similarly priced PCs. Without any of the windows issues.
2. I’ve been using PCs for over 20 years. I have probably upgraded 2 times my PCs over all these years. For professional work you get a system that works and the only thing you might upgrade is the hard drives - ram is a nightmare to upgrade if a PC is several years old. It’s a recipe for problems. I’ve done it, it sucks. Customisation I agree with you. PC wins for sure.
3. Yes Apple charges extortionate amounts for their internal storage. However, check my video on the Blackmagic Multidock 10G. Problem solved :)
4. Most plugins are compatible with M2 and my Mac Studio. I honestly miss 1-2 plugins still.
The new machines are phenomenal. Simple as that. And very reasonably priced considering the performance you get. This is all UNTIL Intel hits back with something so compelling and Windows fix their issues. We will see :)
@@DomSigalas WWoooOOooaaAAaaHH!
The Master in person replied to me!!!
Man... you made my day!!! 😁😜
Great! Quick one, is Waves Audio compatible?