What I'd like to see more than anything with fencing/HEMA masks, is better shock absorption inside. The first HEMA mask manufacturer to put the type of padding from an American football helmet inside, will get a lot of business. The screen and steel do a great job of taking the strike, however the internal padding normally on a HEMA mask does a poor job of absorbing the impact between the steel and the skull. We know through lots of research and experience that head hits don't just injure from the external impact, but from internal impacts as well.
Yes! I guess D3O is the materials manufacturer. The materials they use for the internal padding of a football helmet, like in the Schutt helmets is exactly what I was thinking. You know when you get hit hard, and you're slightly light-headed and see stars for a second? That's because your brain just took the hit. That's bad. It would drastically reduce the effects of hard sword strikes to the head. Granted, the effects aren't nearly as strong as boxing, but there's still no reason not to protect yourself against brain injuries via strikes over time.
Steve K Jr D3O makes smart materials that's relatively soft and flexible normally but when it receives a sudden shock or impact it hardens. It might differ for inside helmets though, but I'm sure that D3O materials would be ideal for use in all sorts of HEMA sparring gear.
No doubt. It sounds like the have a lot different materials for various applications. The trick becomes the age old effectiveness/cost ratio. Those Smart materials will be the highest-end, but the non-Smart materials will probably just as effective for this application, given that the total forces are on the lower side of most contact-collision sports. I'm definitely willing to spend extra to protect from brain injuries and hand injuries because of their importance, but I'll take bruises on arms, shoulders and torso if it keeps costs down. Adding some good quality shock-absorbing padding to the internal Crown, sides and jaw of a mask would be well worth it.
If it is effective I would pay and extra hundred quid... yesterday I got a really nicely executed pommel hit.. and I would like to avoid long term damage from this type of hits.
I just modded a workman's kneepad to attached to the strap for BotH protection for my PBT Warrior mask. The cupped shape fits the back of the head perfectly and it reaches down to the base of my skull. It fits inside this mask perfectly with lateral gaps of maybe 1 cm.
I have the PBT Warrior and the main problem I have with it is that the extra length in the back seems to make it more prone to flipping off of my head while fighting if something catches the flap on the back of the head.
I have an older pbt mask myself and am quit happy with it. When a I bought it I also bought a back padding and side padding (the thing you mentioned you don´t like) with it. I always thougt that side paddings are usefull cause they damp heavy side impacts a bit especially those hitting around your ears, but your point with the extra heat and sweating under it is true. When you test it I would be really interested how comfortable it is when your wear a back protection and how quick you take the mask on and of with a strapped on backprotection to the mask. Cause the concept of a longer mask sounds good, but I still would always prefer an extra protection for your back of the head and neck. Cause even in training there are some situations were you can already aim a hit directed at the back of the head.
Her Matt, I was thinking about doing Turkish subtitles for some of your videos. Would you be interested in this kind of thing? If you are, please respond to me so we can figure out how I can send you the subtitles.
Is there a link to the promised update review? Because I have the old PBT mask, and am not happy with it. If this one is made of the same steel mesh as the one I have, I don't want it. That one has dented badly under any reasonable use, even nylon club sparring, and I'm looking to replace it soon.
There was a domed back of the head a few decades ago for saber fencing. But I have not seen one in years. That was for sports fencing because of wip over.
Hi Matt, thanks for the review! I have two questions: because of the greater length of the mask, the bib at the sides need to extend further and be in general a bit larger. Does this influence your movement when wearing a fencing jacket for example because it interferes more with your shoulders? Sometimes I get blocked by the combination of mask+gorget+jacket when going in high guards like right Ochs (right Ochs especially because with crossed arms you easily feel every missing inch of freedom of movement). My second question: on all the standard HEMA masks there is this kind of 'triangle of death' which is formed by the end of the bib and the beginning of the back-of-the-head protection, where acutally an gap forms where a thrust could easily be lethal when hitting in this spot (which because of the weird necessary angle for this happens close to never, fortunately). Is this with this mask less of the problem because the extended bib shifts this 'triangle' so far back, that the throat actually is not exposed anymore?
something like that would be awesome, even something simple like a construction helmet rig. fits securely, can be adapted for size and stops the mask riding about too much.
Could the flat reinforcing strips in the mask be replaced by a clear piece of polycarbonate, such as used in visors for football and lacrosse helmets? That way there'd be no blind spot, and if a visor can take a lacrosse ball at full speed safely, it can certainly survive HEMA. Especially from behind the steel mesh of the mask. The material could be extended lower to add reinforcement over the eyes and the bridge of the nose, and still not negatively affect vision.
Modern HEMA masks look radically different from historical helmets. If you could take modern mask design back in time, are there aspects of a modern mask that would be seen as an upgrade? Or is a modern mask just for sport?
It's a shame that equipment with an armour-like appearance is seen as "uncool" in HEMA, because _that guy_ made/makes the most durable and protective HEMA masks out there, but they just haven't taken off or been copied by another higher volume manufacturer.
Can you do a video on some of the back/spine puddings you were talking about? I practice FMA and I've been looking for one since a lot of strikes impact right at Cspine
I kinda feel the same since the space is tighter. Also at a first glance the padding on the sides might limit your head movement? I suspect it's a lot about how a person's kit fits together - these changes seem good (especially the back of the head) but it will take some time to find/make other parts to fit it :)
scholagladiatoria, after 9 months, how is this mask doing for you? Has it become your main mask? Thanks so much if you have time to respond! Mr. Easton. I greatly respect your historical and martial expertise!
So why don't they have a dome on the back as well? Curved at the bottom to accommodate the neck? It's so weird to me... Thousands of years of helmet development, with all sorts of covers, enclosures, flanges and tails at the back and yet it seems they're slowly reinventing the wheel with these things.
What would be your opinion on the trend in HEMA to make the feders so long in the blade and hilts ? Would a real longsword of the same length behave close to such feders ?
What I'd like to see more than anything with fencing/HEMA masks, is better shock absorption inside. The first HEMA mask manufacturer to put the type of padding from an American football helmet inside, will get a lot of business. The screen and steel do a great job of taking the strike, however the internal padding normally on a HEMA mask does a poor job of absorbing the impact between the steel and the skull. We know through lots of research and experience that head hits don't just injure from the external impact, but from internal impacts as well.
You mean something like this? www.d3o.com/
Yes! I guess D3O is the materials manufacturer. The materials they use for the internal padding of a football helmet, like in the Schutt helmets is exactly what I was thinking.
You know when you get hit hard, and you're slightly light-headed and see stars for a second? That's because your brain just took the hit. That's bad.
It would drastically reduce the effects of hard sword strikes to the head. Granted, the effects aren't nearly as strong as boxing, but there's still no reason not to protect yourself against brain injuries via strikes over time.
Steve K Jr
D3O makes smart materials that's relatively soft and flexible normally but when it receives a sudden shock or impact it hardens. It might differ for inside helmets though, but I'm sure that D3O materials would be ideal for use in all sorts of HEMA sparring gear.
No doubt. It sounds like the have a lot different materials for various applications. The trick becomes the age old effectiveness/cost ratio. Those Smart materials will be the highest-end, but the non-Smart materials will probably just as effective for this application, given that the total forces are on the lower side of most contact-collision sports.
I'm definitely willing to spend extra to protect from brain injuries and hand injuries because of their importance, but I'll take bruises on arms, shoulders and torso if it keeps costs down. Adding some good quality shock-absorbing padding to the internal Crown, sides and jaw of a mask would be well worth it.
If it is effective I would pay and extra hundred quid... yesterday I got a really nicely executed pommel hit.. and I would like to avoid long term damage from this type of hits.
I just modded a workman's kneepad to attached to the strap for BotH protection for my PBT Warrior mask. The cupped shape fits the back of the head perfectly and it reaches down to the base of my skull. It fits inside this mask perfectly with lateral gaps of maybe 1 cm.
Hi Matt did you ever film a follow up review for this product? Am thinking of buying one
I have the PBT Warrior and the main problem I have with it is that the extra length in the back seems to make it more prone to flipping off of my head while fighting if something catches the flap on the back of the head.
I have an older pbt mask myself and am quit happy with it. When a I bought it I also bought a back padding and side padding (the thing you mentioned you don´t like) with it. I always thougt that side paddings are usefull cause they damp heavy side impacts a bit especially those hitting around your ears, but your point with the extra heat and sweating under it is true.
When you test it I would be really interested how comfortable it is when your wear a back protection and how quick you take the mask on and of with a strapped on backprotection to the mask.
Cause the concept of a longer mask sounds good, but I still would always prefer an extra protection for your back of the head and neck. Cause even in training there are some situations were you can already aim a hit directed at the back of the head.
Her Matt, I was thinking about doing Turkish subtitles for some of your videos. Would you be interested in this kind of thing? If you are, please respond to me so we can figure out how I can send you the subtitles.
Is there a link to the promised update review? Because I have the old PBT mask, and am not happy with it. If this one is made of the same steel mesh as the one I have, I don't want it. That one has dented badly under any reasonable use, even nylon club sparring, and I'm looking to replace it soon.
There was a domed back of the head a few decades ago for saber fencing. But I have not seen one in years. That was for sports fencing because of wip over.
Hi Matt. Can't find the follow up vid for this. Was it (the mask) any good?
Hi Matt, thanks for the review! I have two questions: because of the greater length of the mask, the bib at the sides need to extend further and be in general a bit larger. Does this influence your movement when wearing a fencing jacket for example because it interferes more with your shoulders? Sometimes I get blocked by the combination of mask+gorget+jacket when going in high guards like right Ochs (right Ochs especially because with crossed arms you easily feel every missing inch of freedom of movement).
My second question: on all the standard HEMA masks there is this kind of 'triangle of death' which is formed by the end of the bib and the beginning of the back-of-the-head protection, where acutally an gap forms where a thrust could easily be lethal when hitting in this spot (which because of the weird necessary angle for this happens close to never, fortunately). Is this with this mask less of the problem because the extended bib shifts this 'triangle' so far back, that the throat actually is not exposed anymore?
The back of the head protector for this mask is basically the same as for the ordinary pbt fencing masks just bigger in size.
given the size a suspension rig would fit inside pretty well
something like that would be awesome, even something simple like a construction helmet rig. fits securely, can be adapted for size and stops the mask riding about too much.
Could the flat reinforcing strips in the mask be replaced by a clear piece of polycarbonate, such as used in visors for football and lacrosse helmets? That way there'd be no blind spot, and if a visor can take a lacrosse ball at full speed safely, it can certainly survive HEMA. Especially from behind the steel mesh of the mask. The material could be extended lower to add reinforcement over the eyes and the bridge of the nose, and still not negatively affect vision.
So maybe after a couple of years someone will be able to invent a domed mesh on the back, lol?
Terry Tindal already did it, but they are not mass produced unfortunately.
Speaking of which, I swear someone discussed this exact mask's idea some 10ish years ago on SFI.
Pity.
Id love for you to make a video about Japanese Iaido (quick drawing) techniques and possible advantages and disadvantages in real combat
I don't think he has any experience in that area but I'm sure he knows people that do.
Modern HEMA masks look radically different from historical helmets.
If you could take modern mask design back in time, are there aspects of a modern mask that would be seen as an upgrade? Or is a modern mask just for sport?
Are those some new swords behind you Matt?
It's a shame that equipment with an armour-like appearance is seen as "uncool" in HEMA, because _that guy_ made/makes the most durable and protective HEMA masks out there, but they just haven't taken off or been copied by another higher volume manufacturer.
Any updates?
it looks like a kenjutsu helmet with a fencing mask.
Well, it doesn't have the throat protector for thrusts against the throat, but still...
Mat what are the swords in the background? I also like you review, looking forwards to hearing more on the mask.
Can you do a video on some of the back/spine puddings you were talking about? I practice FMA and I've been looking for one since a lot of strikes impact right at Cspine
judging on the material the mask is made off..do you think there is a way for someone crafty to attach a bar at the front?
Am I noticing new swords on that wall Behind Matt here?
Matt, please show us pictures of yourself from your younger years. I wanna see geek level 9000.
Due to the 5cm longer mesh behind the head, most back of the head protectors won't fit it.
If someone fits *inside* a regular mask, it will fit inside this, as it's the same size. However, yes the ones that fit over the top will not fit.
I kinda feel the same since the space is tighter. Also at a first glance the padding on the sides might limit your head movement? I suspect it's a lot about how a person's kit fits together - these changes seem good (especially the back of the head) but it will take some time to find/make other parts to fit it :)
scholagladiatoria, after 9 months, how is this mask doing for you? Has it become your main mask?
Thanks so much if you have time to respond! Mr. Easton. I greatly respect your historical and martial expertise!
They sell a back of the head protector specifically made for this mask now.
Hello, has anyone used this mask for Escrima stick fighting?
Did you have to change your size? How does it fit with the black armoury jacket?
Have you ever considered writing a book about HEMA?
should u even bother with back of the head protection with this? looks like the back of the neck is the only thing left exposed
So why don't they have a dome on the back as well? Curved at the bottom to accommodate the neck?
It's so weird to me... Thousands of years of helmet development, with all sorts of covers, enclosures, flanges and tails at the back and yet it seems they're slowly reinventing the wheel with these things.
Yes, it seems to me like you could easily add one, even perhaps a hinged one to make donning and removing the helm easier.
Precisely. It's not as if they have to accommodate people with massively long coneheads.
Of course they come out with a better mask 6 months after I order their old one *mumblegrumble*
Hungary REPRESENT! :)
lol, are you going to let people smack you across the face to test it, or are your students skilled enough to get that sort of strike in on you?
He needs to do the rolling pin test on it.
What would be your opinion on the trend in HEMA to make the feders so long in the blade and hilts ? Would a real longsword of the same length behave close to such feders ?